again, the FFA has missed the chance -

MVFC play away on the weekend before the Melb Cup.

The unofficial 4 day weekend, big party atmosphere, a perfect time for MVFC to host AUFC or SFC at Etihad……and they send MVFC on Sunday evening, Nov 1, to invisible Perth.

Yep, you are the guys saying that the HAL has stalled .. with the AFL men in charge … have to agree… with you and SJ…

Ah yes the transparency of the gold fish bowl with the numbered marbles too simple or difficult for AFL to comprehend … However, still in operation for all the Major FIFA tournaments.. You say those days are gone .. Yes indeed in AFL … where transparancy went out the window with AFL fixtures…

PS, any news on the Option Contract … still waiting on the exercise price for Docklands… Where’s the transparency..?

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KB

those days are long, long, long gone.

Apart from anything else, you have the various issues of venue availability.

You like to pick on the AFL oh so much, but, between the various cities, there are big issues of managing the venues with competing interests.

Then, because we don’t live in a vacuum – in various cities, Union and AFL for example work a program of avoiding head to head fixturing. Common sense really – but, it means that marbles start getting compromised!!!

That’s at the simple level.

Midfielder -

careful how much you pump up the AFL. Professionalism – - there’s plenty of argument the other way!!!! (on certain points at least). But, fair enough – relative to the NSL – yep, the AFL and even the old VFL I guess win on that count.

btw – the 8 into 4 finals was in place well before either Buckley or Fraser came along. I dare say that Mr.Frank Lowy has had a fair input into all of this from the outset.

Yesterday you said the following:
Ben and Archie are AFL advocates and have been brought up on a steady diet of contrived drawing .. Don’t expect them to understand how to go about a fair draw … I mean to say look at the AFL league how manipulated it is… draft picks etc … Also remember how the first round pitted the Tigers up against Carlton .. God how did that happen..? Boy how lucky that was .?. I mean was that just a small coincidence ..? Cousins up against Judd..?.

Answer is Yes.

When the draw was put together, the ‘contrived’ element was Carlton vs Richmond kicking off the season, which they are seeking to make a regular event.

At that point, Ben Cousins was no where to be seen. Certainly not at Richmond.

There was zero Cousins-Judd contrivance at that point.

You need to check your timelines before flying off the handle.

I agree with you if we had football people run the A-League it would never have got off the ground… But I don’t think that BB was second rate as I understand it he was number 2 at the AFL…

But credit where credit is due the AFL run a very professional domestic competition and it’s ability to work with the media and get what it wants is a real credit to many years nay decades of professionalism … The ownership of poker machine and pubs in Melbourne is a huge credit to a forward thinking management… Further i think well before last year the AFL has been on a kinda war footing looking to expand whilst building unshakable foundations in the Southern States and Melbourne in particular…

I think JON was replaced because of his lack of domestic competition experience and I get the sense that Obie One sees a strong domestic competition as the way forward for football and he will use if he can get them the best talent the country has … a lot of the best talent and experience is in the AFL so expect more raids … BTW the Perth Glory manager has been recruited to the AFL … meaning as I see it talented sporting managers are in high demand so I think there could be a lt of changes.

While I am not a fan of the 6 team final series, I can live with it for one season. If the FFA switch to an 8 teams final series when teams 11 and 12 come in, then that would be the final joke.

The reason you have second string AFL people running your A League is because there is no futbol people with any idea of how run sport in this country.. be thankful you at least have competent folk if it was up to futbol people the game domesticially would be a basket case again.

Note however that not even the AFL is stupid enough to have 60% of the teams competing in the finals, what a hypocrite you futbol folk are to criticise the AFL and NRL. haha.

Redb

You said …”"” Ben and Archie are AFL advocates and have been brought up on a steady diet of contrived drawing …”"”

Archie is football to his boot laces was stolen by the AFL to run St Kilda … we have him back in the opinion of many he is the most knowledge football person to hold a senior office in Hal & the old NSL… that is why BB got him in to run the A-League … what he does bring is an understanding of how to run a successful domestic competition in Australia via his AFL training…and take from this training the lessons on how to run the A-League.

Papa be under no elision the AFL understand how to market and run sport in Australia… what ever football traditions maybe overseas.. football in Australia must use the tools that make a sport successful in Australia first … when it is established it can start to build the things you want … but to expect non rusted on folk to understand and comprehend much of what you are saying as a starting point will mean we never get to the starting point..

IMO Archie has more knowledge than most in this country about football .. combined with AFL experience, it is just so clever and I expect he will bring a lot with him… finally look back 4 years and see the state we where in … now look forward 10 years and see where we will be … but we cannot jump there it needs to be build stone by stone brick by brick.
(the MV fans forum is worth reading about Archie http://www.melbournevictory.net/forum/showthread.php?t=51990 )

The FA cup will come sooner rather than latter I suspect before the next media deal and be played mid week. It will replace the finals … but we need to walk first which we can’t at this stage … Obie One when speaking to Like Skywalker said in a famous line … be patient my apprentice you must complete your training and develop your skills … I think this applies to football right now … so KB it will come but these things take time…

Even selecting dates for certain block buster fixtures can change the fortunes of another club at the end of the season.. I say total and complete transparency, is the honest and fairest way to go .. What may be lost in a few extra thousand spectators does not really matter … What matters to me is total transparency of the draw, home and away 2 games or 4..

I love your ideas of a FFA cup with state teams included … All very good thoughts that I first read from you long ago… Also we should aim for a 10 month season like Europe … 4 games home and away will do it .. If we want to pass Japan we need the extra intensity of top flight football .. Then one day we will have a national team as good as Japan from home grown players with a sprinkling of overseas stars instead of the other way around…

PS, Drogba is on fire … he wants three trophies this season and I think he will do it … Best you get on board with our French lads.. Ribery is wanting to join up as well… There you go.. what more incentive do you need Millster…? We’re Blue, we have a French connection and we are winners…

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KB

More broadly I am not a purist on the issue of manipulating the draw. As long as each team ends up playing each other team an equal number of times (which is a problem with the AFL I believe where this does not occur – something which is simply ridiculous) then I see no reason why the fixtures cannot be somewhat ‘selectively scheduled’ to meet other goals for the competition. These include on-field goals (eg avoiding scheduling clashes within the footballing world and with major games of other codes) and off field goals (eg commercial judgement, exploting opportunities for double-headers or special promotions, etc). Professional sport is in the end an entertainment product and we should not be so naive as to avoid exploiting all the possibilities we can for the success and progress of our beloved game. I do agree though that playing each opposing club not only an equal number of times, but an equal number of times home and away (ie 2 or 4 times a season rather than 3), is the next step again from where we are now.

Finally, Drogba schmogba and pffft to the blues… the real EPL question of importance is whether Spurs have any chance of amazingly clinching a spot in Europe despite the calamitous start to their season…

PS I agree with both Dave and Sam that, taking a step back, if you compare where HAL is now to where we were 7 or 8 years back in Australian football, and also compare versus NRL on live crowds, viewership and more broadly the ‘sense’ in the game’s structure then whehter numbers go up or down by 5 or 10% here or there is immaterial because on all counts we are immeasuarbly better off than we were before, have a real little foundation in place now, and without denying the odd mistake are heading in the right direction.

If you look at every sport it has its problems. Sydney rugby league clubs was an example I gave as it is happening in every sport. Even Melbourne AFL clubs. So there is no curiosity as to why it wouldn’t be happening with some a-league clubs?

Fact is a-league still needs to develop its core audience for each team. Only Melbourne Victory have come close to doing this. No one is saying everything is going well, but maybe we just see the glass half full, and not half empty. In terms of Adelaide and Brisbane, they are teams which I believe will grow its audience in future. With good management things will turn around.

Don’t get so defensive! The A-League is certainly going well and being a fan of football I’m happy about that. If you ventured out into the real world you may meet people that actually support more than one football code.

I know many rugby league clubs are battling, we’ve seen all the details about Manly and Paramatta, but surely that is a seperate issue.

I am merely interested in knowing what state the Roar and United are in and debating how those problems can be solved. Alternatively I guess I could just stick my head in the sand and repeat the mantra that everything is going so well.

Dave, reports I have read suggested that ratings in Pay TV declined, obviously there is a difference there but in the end remember I’m not interesting in arguing about different codes. I left school too long ago.

” The is certainly some interest in this year’s draw, but like so much of the A-League it isn’t about what is happening on the field.” Err unlike AFL/NRL where its only just about on the field…where have you been hiding??

On a brighter note: Drogba has tipped 3 trophies for Stamford Bridge’s Trophy room ….

Norm,
so much for the Nap Cup .. the sponsor must be delighted… Michael Voss reported on the channel 9 NRL Roast ..Ratings for the AFL TV up north slumped badly.. ie head to head with the NRL…. …

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KB

Many Sydney rugby league clubs have been making excuses about their crowds for the last 10 (or God knows how many) years, and many are in financial dire straits. I suggest you cut the a-league some slack. The competition is here to stay long term. Get used to it.

You talk about a-league not being about what is happening on the field. Suggest you buy the Daily Telegraph and see what a soap opera really is.

I think the expansion Qld teams will be interesting, with the Roar (team not website) in dire financial straits it will be interesting to see how the others fare, if Brisbane can’t support an A-League franchise what chance Townsville?

Adelaide United have seemingly had everything in their favour, finals series, Asian football and they still look like they are on life support.

There is obviously a lot more to these financial difficulties and maybe they aren’t as bad as first thought, but it would be good if someone in Australia’s football media asked some tough questions rather than just reworking FFA press releases. Like say, Mike Cockerill reporting what a boost it was for Sydney FC to go to the SCG. If fans aren’t going to the footy friendly Aussie Stadium why would they go next to a cricket oval?

Last year’s A-League was dominated by everyone talking about the teams next year, which was probably why crowds dropped on both Pay TV and at the grounds, hopefully this year won’t be the same.

I’m looking forward to the season, but the competition has probably run out of excuses if the crowds don’t pick up.

“Michael C, I agree with you.”

can I take a picture and frame it?!?!

The A-League fixtures are, and have always been, unfair as they do not play the same amount of home games against other clubs. Can’t fathom why, this season when they had the chance, they didn’t fix it. Irks me.

Maybe it’s the 2 new clubs?

Maybe (and this is more just Sydney-centric) its the change of guard at SFC and the hope of something better?

Maybe its the realisation that has come, and stayed, from last year’s ACL adventure of our actual – and potential – place in the club footballing world?

Maybe its the anticipation of the World Cup which is just around the corner?

In any case, for all my mixed views about what is going on, in my heart there is an excitement. Andthough i’ve been a good HAL supporter from the start, attending over 50% of SFC games since Season 1, this year will be the year that I formally sign up as a member – even if I don’t attend any more games its the year where I believe its right to really ut my money where my mouth is.

Bring on the first kick off. I can’t wait.

true – but still not ideal or perfect. And so, a compromise.

When you then factor in a variety of factors such as :
playing Team A when Player B is on higher duties for King and country,[the AFL killed off SoO and doesn't have this 'problem']

the club in general having to compromise between conflicting ‘tournaments’, i.e. when an ACL campaign get’s in the way of a HAL campaign (or vice versa) [the AFL doesn't have this 'problem'!!]

Tyranny of distance, sees an advantage for NSW teams and QLD teams having 2 intra state road trips (okay, no trip to Townsville is ‘short’) compared to Wellington always going ‘international’ on the road, and Perth always going BACK IN TIME (time travel)to play a game ‘away’,[granted, the same state teams don't share venues, in AFL, obviously, the Melb teams share 2 venues and often lose 'home' ground advantage.]

and given the fledgling nature of the tournament, with clubs still struggling to break even – the simple fact that the 21 game season previously has provided 11 home vs 10 away or vice versa, means that every year, half the competition is at a financial disadvantage (1 ‘home gate’ down). ON this front, for all the lack of a ‘balanced’ H&A fixture, the AFL DOES schedule each club to 11 home matches.

There’s varying degrees of fairness.

Finno -

soccer in Australia has been pretty well dominated by NSW sides in the NSL and thus far the HAL. The greatest absolute and relative numbers of soccer participants are in NSW by a fair way – - NSW is the ‘home’ of soccer. It’s only the spin doctors who try to make you believe that it presents a nice ‘average’ across the country. Truth is, it’s very Sydney centric. And, just check most the bloggers who are pushing for a 2nd Sydney team, and a team at the ‘Gong, and mebbe one in Canberra (reality, ACT is part of NSW culturally – just compare the BArton Hwy vs the Federal Hwy!!! All ‘good’ roads lead to Sydney.)

They didn’t stagnate.

They fell to below V2 levels.

- – - btw, a 3 ’round’ H&A draw IS an uneven draw, i.e. team A plays team B thrice, but has 2 homes games vs 1 away. With such tyranny of distance as referred to in the article – how then is such an arrangement anything but uneven??

(reality always is, if you plan to make the finals and win, you’d better just beat the opposition on the day whereever and whenever you play – and not whinge about inequities of a draw. A fixture that invariably changes in it’s nature of inequity from the time the draw is first put together to the time the season is a month in and the new season’s ‘form’ and injuries and the like come into play)

The big problem with the draw though is Melbourne and Adelaide playing ACL games during the finals series. I don’t suppose there was anything that could have been done to change that, but hopefully if either of those teams make it to the last couple of weeks of the finals there’ll be some kind of concession made.

Tough call …AFL lunatic …

Then I look at Obie One … BB & now Archie Fraser… do they have the management ability to make the call … would they have checked and rechecked data / surveys / economic conditions / Asian Football politics / the ability of the new and existing teams to survive / would , could they assume media coverage etc ….OMG it had to come one day and the day is near … head to head for 3 months the starting two and the ending month… no longer hide behind the summer protection …. massive call … the bring it on crowd,” have won” … bugger me it is going to be hard.. However although I think it’s to early I have faith in the management team so where to from here…

….”Archie Fraser the man charged with taking the A-League to the next level has warned the clubs he intends to set demanding benchmarks and won’t tolerate “mediocrity”. “There is no time for Excuses”
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25356022-5006068,00.html

The gist of this article is everyone must lift to a higher standard at club / player / coach level … Fraser’s argument is more about administrators lifting their game and connecting to the football family including the elusive “European set” …

Management he argues need to do more to connect to the football family … he is right … how it’s done I have no idea at this stage… all I know we are no longer a fringe player on the Australian sporting landscape we have a 8 month season … still 4 years away from the next media deal…

I have faith in our management team I hope that Archie can show and lead the A-League teams on how to improve and connect more with the football family … the start of stage 3 … so much to do, so many obstacles in the way, in the end it will come down to the average punter in the street … the new day awaits expectations a plenty, .. Yes we can says midfielder looking around nervously yes we can…

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KB