By Mike Tuckerman
April 23rd 2009 @ 2:01am
Related coverage
Nicky Carle should join the J. League
Nick Carle. App Images
Is Nicky Carle a $2 million flop, or isn’t he? There were conflicting reports in the Australian media last week, after Carle bemoaned his lack of goals at Championship side Crystal Palace, only to slam reports that he had labelled himself “a flop.”
The much-travelled midfielder heaped scorn on suggestions that he was headed for the exit door at Palace, claiming “whoever wrote that story has no idea.”
Touché Nicky – but if you happen to read this, you’ll always be a favourite in the Tuckerman household!
We appreciate skillful midfielders around our way, I can tell you.
And I’m not some johnny-come-lately fresh on the Nicky Carle bandwagon.
I used to watch him go around for Marconi after he struggled to make the grade at French club Troyes.
These days I watch another silky midfielder in the Carle mould dictate play for Shimizu S-Pulse.
His name is Jungo Fujimoto.
And his insightful vision and defence-splitting passes got me thinking about just how valuable playmakers are in the Japanese game.
We’ve seen it in the Asian Champions League in the form of Gamba Osaka’s Yasuhito Endo and Kengo Nakamura of Kawasaki Frontale.
But scratch the surface at most J. League clubs and it becomes apparent that midfield maestros are very much in vogue.
It makes me wonder why Carle doesn’t secure a move to a league more appreciative of his refined talents.
No disrespect to the Championship – or to Carle himself – but surely a less agricultural environment than the hurly-burly of the old Division Two would be more suitable?
I’m far from the first Carle admirer to suggest a move, but in my weaker moments I almost wish this flair player would join a club in the J. League.
In a land in which boys clamour to become the next Shunsuke Nakamura – “they want to create goals, not score them,” as a friend and youth coach often reminds me – I can’t help but wonder how productive Carle might be when the tackles don’t come flying in.
At any rate, the closest Australia looks to sending a compatriot to keep Eddy Bosnar company comes in the shape of Graham Arnold!
Last in charge of the Olyroos, the former Sanfrecce Hiroshima striker has expressed a desire to sign on as an assistant coach at a J. League club.
But with Arnold’s link in the form of ex-Socceroos and Hiroshima coach Eddie Thomson having unfortunately passed on, it’s tough to see Arnie landing a gig in the notoriously conservative J. League.
That’s especially the case given the struggles of Pierre Littbarski, Ian Crook and Anthony Crea at Avispa Fukuoka last season.
The coaching trio arrived from A-League outfit Sydney FC with the goal of steering the southern club to promotion from J2.
Instead all three were sacked mid-campaign when it became apparent that Fukuoka were doomed to another season in the basement of Japanese football.
It didn’t help that Mark Rudan was constantly injured, while Ufuk Talay found the pace of the J. League tough to adjust to – even if his cultured passing game was admired.
As much as it would benefit Australian football to have players and coaches plying their trade in what many are now labelling Asia’s “Premier League,” it seems unlikely that Japanese clubs are about to swoop for talent from Down Under.
Which is a shame.
The gap may be closing, but we lost two-from-two in the Champions League this week.
Luck wasn’t on the side of either the Central Coast Mariners or the Newcastle Jets – but it takes more than luck to win in football.
Sometimes it takes a creative midfielder to unlock a defence or conjure some magic to bust open a game. Kengo Nakamura and Nagoya Grampus match-winner Yoshizumi Ogawa do it, and Nicky Carle can do it too.
It’s just a shame that he’s struggling at Crystal Palace, since many of us wish he’d do it on a far more regular basis.
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(37)
Mick of Newie said | April 23rd 2009 @ 8:39am | Report comment
Mike
After watching Nagoya take the p*ss last night against the Jets, I was left to bemoan the complete lack of techincal ability in the home team. Oh for the days of Nick Carle. Nagoya’s passing, control, movement was fantastic. We are more than a generation away I suspect from producing teams with such players.
Back to your point, would Nick suit the J league, absolutely. The only question for me would be how do I subscribe to watch.
Kazama said | April 23rd 2009 @ 8:48am | Report comment
Mike, if Nicky were to leave Europe then why not come back to the A-League instead of the J. League? Given the fact that Eddy Bosnar is left out in the cold when it comes to the Socceroos (diet or full-strength), perhaps if Nicky wants to put himself back on Pim’s radar a move to the A-League beckons, where he’d be one of very few true playmakers in the competition.
“…it seems unlikely that Japanese clubs are about to swoop for talent from Down Under.
Which is a shame.”
No it isn’t! I thought we were supposed to be upset that the big clubs of Asia have been pinching our players? I can see the benefits of having our guys playing in a superior league, but we have to have some decent Australian players in the A-League; otherwise we might as well forget about having a domestic competition at all.
As for Arnie, at least he is doing the right thing and looking for a job at a club.
Mackey said | April 23rd 2009 @ 9:35am | Report comment
Kazama, I for one am not upset with Asian clubs snapping up Aussie talent. The game in Japan is technically superior and I would hazard a guess that the coaching and infrastructure is a step (or two) up from the A-League. I think it’s best that people removed the rose tinted glasses when it comes to the A-League, it is going to take years for it to develop to the level that many seem to think it is currently at. Don’t get me wrong, I love the A-League and am a feverent BRISBANE Roar fan, but sometimes it pays to take a step back and look at the A-League for what it is.
MIke I agree that Carle would be a fantastic addition to the J-League, he definitely suits a style of play more partial to tight passing and movement rather than the hoof and chase of the Championship. As much as I hate to say it, the Jets were good to watch when they had the likes of Carle, (J) Griffiths and Rodriguez pulling the strings, compared to the Jets post-Vignoroli last night who were listless and uncreative.
Kazama said | April 23rd 2009 @ 10:01am | Report comment
Mackey, I’ve hardly got the rose-tinted glasses on when it comes to the A-League. I don’t even own a pair. You talk about the A-League needing years to develop? I agree 100%, but it won’t be advancing at all if guys keep leaving our shores for the Asian leagues. We need to keep some decent players here, otherwise no one will give a damn about our comp and we’ll all be signing up for J. League subscriptions.
Mackey said | April 23rd 2009 @ 10:43am | Report comment
Disagree again, what we need is better coaching for the younger kids, which FFA has implemented at the behest of Rob Baan’s report. The current generation of players in the A-League are not going to suddenly learn ‘new tricks’ with people like Farina, Mitchell, Merrick and Mckinna coaching them, but if they head overseas to clubs with UEFA credited coaches, bigger backrooms/facilities, more intesne training and more games, they will improve.
The recent CCM and Jets games are proof that for far too long Aussie coaches, at all levels, go for the big strong workmanlike player that will try his ehart out for 90 mins. They’ve been torn to shreds by teams with superior coaching, vision and ability.
Telling Nathan Burns to stay in the A-League on a pittance with lower standard coaching to play 20 games in a season merely for the fact of not letting him go would be a travesty.
It will be interesting to see what Livicka brings to Sydney in terms of professionalism and technique.
Kazama said | April 23rd 2009 @ 11:14am | Report comment
First of all, who mentioned Nathan Burns? Of course the top young players are always going to leave, that is a given. I have said on this site many times that we are a feeder league. Whether it be to Asia, Europe, South America, the Djites and Burnses are always going to leave for bigger things.
No, my issue is that we are losing players like Joel Griffiths, Sasa Ognenovski and Jonas Salley, guys who can’t cut it in Europe, and not because they are chasing better coaching / facilities etc but more money. Will they improve? Perhaps, but will it mean anything in the long run? No it won’t. These guys are either at their peak or close to it, they aren’t going to suddenly turn into Pele if they go to the J. League or the Chinese Super League. But what will become of the A-League? Will fans be content to watch a competition full of state-league wannabees – more of the workman-like players you speak of – while second and third tier players are off in Europe and Asia? I don’t think so. I’m not happy with the quality as it is, and my big fear is that it is only going to get worse if we keep losing those mid-range players.
The answer is, as you say, better coaching at the youth level, but sending guys from the current generation who aren’t going to develop much more like Nicky Carle, Joel Griffiths etc. to Asia is only going to cost the A-League fans and put its survival further at risk.
And yes, it will be very interesting to see what happens to Sydney this season under Livicka.
whiskeymac said | April 23rd 2009 @ 11:22am | Report comment
agrred that the aimis that if you lose one good player, you hopefully gain another or two with the NYL. with losing players like Salley and Van Dijk (who i wld miss from the HAL) etc – there are lots of players of a similar ilk plying their trade somewhere in the world. they are replaceable. what might be more valued is a decent transfer fee so that the clubs losing their players can afford to replace them (or invest in the infrastructure etc).
Sam said | April 23rd 2009 @ 12:06pm | Report comment
There are many leagues currently in the world which are feeder leagues. More importantly we need to develop a football culture in this country with more analysis, discussion etc, which is something that countries such as Holland, Mexico etc have. These are also feeder leagues. The fact that Griffiths or Van Dijk leave for Asian countries is the football world at work. Something we need to accept. Club and country should aways come before individual players.
There is a reason why the likes of Yorke and Fowler will come to Australia. Lifestyle. These are the players we need more than anything else as the are real football personalities. Mid range players get forgotten and talented youngsters come through. It is the top shelf players which draw crowds. We need to target this area a bit more. We need more personalities and cult heroes imo.
Sam said | April 23rd 2009 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
Perhaps a plan by the FFA to be able to draw top shelf players with unique talents to the a-league. Perhaps they can help out clubs, or the player in rewarding them for coming here. Lavicka has brough over a Slovak named Kisel for Sydney. It will be interesting to see how he goes. Perth look to be getting Denilson. That is a question mark, but it could work out…
Kazama said | April 23rd 2009 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
The only trouble with that Sam is that they will cost a lot of money and won’t be around for much more than a season. Denilson I heard is only going to play seven games if he signs. Is the short-term gain really worth the investment compared to putting that money into giving our kids, our next generation, some decent coaching and facilities?
And while the overseas mid-range players may be replaceable, the Aussies are not, thanks to the limits on how many visa players each team can have. While I agree that we’ll be relying on our youth league (but not the pathetic transfer fees we get) to supplement these losses, we don’t really want to be watching a bunch of 17 year olds run around with a couple of imports and a has been from the EPL every week do we? Otherwise we might as well get rid of the A-League and just have the youth league.
And just because we are a feeder league doesn’t mean that the A-League has to suck and that we have to be resigned to lose each and every player than can play a decent through ball as soon as they turn 18. The Eredivisie may be a feeder competition but there are still loads of quality players in that league, many who will never move on to bigger and better things. It’s not just about quality, it is quantity of quality.
To get back to the original point I feel that we’d be better off with Nicky Carle in the A-League than the J. League for the reason that he’d be another sorely-needed quality, skillful player in our league. Like Jason Culina, he’s not suddenly going to turn into a talentless chopper simply because he’s moved back here, just as he’s not going to become Maradona overnight by moving to Japan. I’d have a season of Nicky Carle over 7 games of Denilson any time at Adelaide.
Sam said | April 23rd 2009 @ 12:42pm | Report comment
Kazama
You underestimate the drawing power of has beens. If Denilson is only 7 games with Perth, then it is probably not worth it. Look at this way if Robbie Fowler comes to Sydney I would go to the game to see the man in the flesh. Nicky Carle or Joel Griffiths doesn’t interest me in the slightest. Yorke was a freak as well.
Besides I think you are overstating the number of mid-range players that will move to Asia. There are a handful of Asian competitions worth going to. Agree that Dutch league ha smore quality, but they have a football culture which we are still implementing. I have looked at several a-league squads this season, and many are no worse than last season considering we have introduced two new teams.
Dave said | April 23rd 2009 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
Nice one Tuck, couldn’t agree more. I also often wonder why Carle wouldn’t consider The Netherland’s Eredivisie for regular football, possible European football (see Holman’s case now) and a history in appreciating technical football which Australia currently lacks consistency of…
Kazama said | April 23rd 2009 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
Sam – but where do the fans go when the has beens move on? If it were keeping fans long term I’d be in favour of having guys like that running around for my club. What will win fans, and keep them, is if our teams start playing good football. Yorke was great for the league, but he wasn’t a has been, the guy went back to England and started playing EPL again. Other big name imports haven’t made an impact at all, and in fact have largely been an expensive waste of money. Fans don’t like clubs that waste money, and while Fowler will draw a crowd wherever he plays on the road, at home no one will care if he scores two goals all season and the Fury finish last.
You’ll have 16,000 Liverpool supporters here when Fowler plays at Hindmarsh, but the following home match we’ll probably get about 8,000 when we play the Mariners, which is a truer indication of the level of support we enjoy in this town. And Adelaide United is worse off, we’ve only got 16 players and are looking at the FFA taking control, which doesn’t bode well for us making any signings of note.
Sam said | April 23rd 2009 @ 1:26pm | Report comment
Kazama
I didn’t say it is all about the imports, but they play a large role. Everything should have a balance. But I believe some big name players should be sought, even if they stay one year. Yes 16,000 Liverpool supporters might turn out for Robbie Fowler, but maybe 2,000 of those might turn out again for the next game against Central Coast as they enjoyed the atmosphere.
At the end of the day the smart clubs will do well.
Art Sapphire said | April 23rd 2009 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
My advice to Nick Carle.
This has been forwarded to his agent.
Dear Nick,
Please consider playing for PAS Gianina in the Greek Super League next season.
The club is about to be promoted to the top flight and your legendary qualities will come in handy for PAS as they attempt to stay up next season.
The Greek way of football should suit your game. Not only is it slower, it also allows players to express themselves while also encouraging foul play, diving and all round petulance. You will find it tough to begin with as you learn how to avoid projectiles and ignore flares. But in the end you have the chance to become a hero when you score the winner against the evil empire that is Olympiakos.
PAS Gianina will be offering a generous salary package and with Art Sapphire’s generosity, you will be taken on an all expenses paid wild pig hunting expedition on the Greek/Albanian border.
Nick, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. The stuff that only dreams are made of…
Brian Munich said | April 23rd 2009 @ 1:34pm | Report comment
I’m a Palace supporter, and a big Nicky Carle fan, but he should leave Palace. If the WC boat hasn’t yet totally left him behind, I think he should try to get back into a lower European league which would appreciate his talents – such as Turkey.
Strikerx said | April 23rd 2009 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
I was in Japan for the Socceeroos’ recent World Cup qualifier. Surprisingly, I found that the Japanese media are utterly fascinated by Josh Kennedy (and would have been relieved not to see him start the match). It seems in Japan he is very much credited with turning the match in Germany in 2006 when he came on as a substitute. In my opinion, players of Carle’s skill are already found in abundance in the J-League. Whereas Kennedy, with his height advantage over the smaller Japanese players, offers them something completely different. Given his high profile in Japan and his woes at Karlsruhe, he could do a lot worse than head East, where I am sure he would be a “stand out” performer (excuse the pun).
Sam said | April 23rd 2009 @ 2:20pm | Report comment
I am not surprised they are fascinated by Josh Kennedy. So is Australia. Most Japanese players tend to have better technique than most our players (even our top stars). Kennedy is a different kettle of fish. I always feel a sense of anticipation when we are on the attack and he is on the field. If he doesn’t score he creates space for others.
Strikerx said | April 23rd 2009 @ 2:39pm | Report comment
As we have seen, the J-League clubs love to play with overlapping fullbacks. Their widemen are simply brilliant. Imagine Josh Kennedy on the end of that?? He really does have a gift in the air (I also rate his touch and distribution). He had no right to score that goal against Uzbekistan. He had nothing to aim for, the ball was delivered from behind and he was a long way out. It was lethal finish. And will live long in my memory.
Sam said | April 23rd 2009 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
Yes, overlapping fullbacks…if only Pim would use this system. Nothing worse than Chipperfield and Kewell getting in each other’s way.
Pippinu said | April 23rd 2009 @ 3:49pm | Report comment
Brian Munich said: I’m a Palace supporter, and a big Nicky Carle fan, but he should leave Palace. If the WC boat hasn’t yet totally left him behind, I think he should try to get back into a lower European league which would appreciate his talents – such as Turkey.
Didn’t he come via Turkey in the first place?
Pippinu said | April 23rd 2009 @ 3:50pm | Report comment
Sam said: Yes, overlapping fullbacks…if only Pim would use this system. Nothing worse than Chipperfield and Kewell getting in each other’s way
The days of Chippers overlapping anything, even a broken down Kewell, are fast waning.
Kazama said | April 23rd 2009 @ 4:06pm | Report comment
Pippinu, NC played for Gençlerbirliği, a club now home to three Aussies. He then moved to Bristol City and then to Palace, where he is now.
P.S. After a hiatus from FM, I just led the UAE to an historic 4-1 aggregate win over Japan to move to a playoff with NZ… Sorry, had to tell someone…
Pippinu said | April 23rd 2009 @ 4:15pm | Report comment
Kaz
that’s ok – that’s big news!!
You’ve been coaching the UAE for a while now.
I ended up leaving the sanctuary of the A-League, and started a new game where I was privy to the big wide world.
I took on the Nix, but I also took on a 2nd role, inheriting the NEC in the Eredivisie, close to the bottom of the table, and then I took on a 3rd role, inheriting TOP Oss in the Eerstedivisie, who were rock bottom.
I saved both of them from relegation, and in the new season NEC are challenging Ajax for the championship (although we’ve dropped off the pace a bit in recent games).
TOP went so well that Livorno offered me a job in ther Serie B – and I took it.
I’m going places baby!!
midfield general said | April 23rd 2009 @ 4:48pm | Report comment
Nick Carle has been talked about in terms of his potential for close to ten years, but he’s 26 now. It might be possible that he has found his level, which is at the bottom end of the championship, as it stands. Is it possible that he doesn’t quite have it, in the same way likes of Archie Thompson and Joel Griffith couldn’t cut it in Europe? I don’t know about the J league for Carle, there seem to be plenty of players of his type.
I was thinking about the same thing for Kaz Patafta for the Jets last night. Which is a shame.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | April 23rd 2009 @ 5:45pm | Report comment
An interesting take on the whole Carle sage there, Mike.
Mike Tuckerman said | April 23rd 2009 @ 5:55pm | Report comment
Thanks Ben. You’re a generous man for not mentioning that Jungo Fujimoto was largely ineffective last weekend!
Koala Bear said | April 23rd 2009 @ 7:32pm | Report comment
Nicky Carle will reach his full potential next season … A player of his technical skill will soon be discovered by a manager with a keen eye to give him the responsibility to be a play maker in his team .. The thing Nicky should do is not be so absorbed in trying to get on the score board and concentrate more on his natural ability to create things .. Then the goals will flow for him by making a good killer pass then moving forward to assist .. I see him more of a Paul Okon type midfielder who has the ability to get forward and score more goals then Okon did .. Stay in England Nicky and for fill your destiny, it will come..
~~~~~~~~
KB
Art Sapphire said | April 23rd 2009 @ 8:12pm | Report comment
Don’t listen to Koala Bear, Nicky!
Why stay in miserable, gloomy Ingerland when Art Sapphire’s offer of wild pig hunting on the Greek Albanian border and the chance to represent the Ajax of Epirus in the Greek Super League is much too good to knock back.
Pas Giannina will be back in the big league next season and the team has a glorious Argentine heritage.
Don’t worry about having Chilean blood, the town will love you and the return to the glory days awaits.
And unlike the other skippy in Greece, Nathan Burns, who went to a big Athenian club, you will be guaranteed a starting place in every game.
Nicky if you don’t believe me, then get your agent to do some homework. Please refer to the link below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAS_Giannina
I will be waiting for you with my hunting buddies. Yiassou Nicky!
Midfielder said | April 23rd 2009 @ 8:30pm | Report comment
Nicky
IMO France / Holland … he will never make an EPL top side … reason most EPL sides today have some of the best players in the world and NC would be better off in a slightly slower league … even Turkey follow Kool / Troisis / Jedi .. he needs to get out of England …
Viscount Crouchback said | April 23rd 2009 @ 11:36pm | Report comment
It’s worth asking why Carle was let go by Bristol City after just six months. I wonder if his attitude is all it could be.
Slippery Jim said | April 24th 2009 @ 9:40am | Report comment
Why is everyone suggesting he go back to Turkey? He was an abject failure there, and reports indicate he couldn’t handle the culture either.
I would suggest a return to the A-League, which is my opinion the level of technical and tactical quality he is comfortable with.
clayton said | April 27th 2009 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
dumb question time – how do the two leagues compare in terms of $$$?
Cruser said | April 27th 2009 @ 6:15pm | Report comment
Mike, considering Nicky has struggled to adapt to the cultures of France & Turkey (I read in a FFT article a year or two ago about his struggles in France, and also read that he struggled without his family in Turkey), do you think moving to another non-english speaking country at this stage of his life will do him any favours? I’m not saying that he doesn’t have to leave the Championship for the betterment of his career (even Nicky must surely know this!), but on the evidence of his career, Nicky has played his best football where he has been comfortable.
Mike Tuckerman said | April 27th 2009 @ 7:01pm | Report comment
I don’t doubt for a second that he probably would struggle, Cruser.
My schtick was a bit of tongue-in-cheek wishful thinking that it’d be nice to see a few more Aussies gracing the J. League.
I think you’re right in that Nicky Carle has done well where he has felt comfortable – we all remember how effective he was at Newcastle Jets – but he’s been struggling for a little while now to make an impact at both Bristol City and now Crystal Palace. Maybe he will turn things around in south London, but it’s certainly been a while since we’ve seen the best of Nicky Carle.
Cruser said | April 28th 2009 @ 8:49am | Report comment
oh haha makes sense!
Which other Aussies would you like to see or you think would make it in the J-league? Anyone currently plying their trade in the A-League?
Mike Tuckerman said | April 28th 2009 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
I think “Brisbane” Roar midfielder Matt McKay (obviously now on loan at Changchun Yatai) and Newcastle Jets’ utility man Matt Thompson are two under-rated players who combine a decent technique with a tenacious work ethic, so I think those two could make a good fist of life in Japan.
But there’s plenty of pressure on foreign players to act as “match-winners” in the J. League, and the ten-month season and obvious language barrier make it a pretty big step to move over straight from the A-League.