No i dont.

There should be more people in administration and especially the media that are willing to say the hard things in order to encourage the young and impressionable to behave in a way that respects others.

Obviously it conflicts with annual league bashing season which is in full swing…..

The individuals who transgress deserve condemnation for their conduct but it is rugby league in my experience that more often than rugby offers these individuals a game and a chance. It does payoff for many but it costs the game dearly when they hang on too long to these problem individuals. If they have allowed a bad culture in relation to women gross to develop it must be condemned but I know many in this game have done sterling and unheralded work for their communities.
They are at times their own worst enemy but I am very suspicious of the populous motives of some who launch into a generalised attack on a game and its supporters they no little about . If they were black you could identify the cause but as an Australian raised on the fair go conept I baulk at times to what degenerates into class prejudice.

‘TOM- I dont know where you have been but I cant remember too many vulnerable or naive 19 year olds girls when I was that age.
Quite the reverse actually.’

Are you serious? You don’t think 19 year old girls are vulnerable around 30 year old athletes?

What’s the reverse? You think they’re predatory?

I have to say, there are some attitudes seeping out of people’s comments on this thread that really worry me.

I don’t think I have lived a sheltered life, Deano. I’ve seen some friends of mine do some pretty rubbish things to women. And it made me angry then like this makes me angry now.

We all know the cases being talked about,the cases making the news are the reason Rugby League is taking the hits,the bottom line is that it seems to be more endemic in the code of League

I know see some of what your saying though,theres seedy stuff going on everywhere and hey thats just life,but when people start becoming hurt by these actions thats where the line has been crossed.The Sharks incident is an example of something that had snowballed out of control,Matty Johns would not have said sorry in the car park if it had just been a “gang bang”,

I hate the word role model too,because it can come down to everything including the music they listen to and what they like doing there private time,but i do think if a player is representing a professional code he has to at least act like a decent human being.

Most people are not asking for them to be role models,most people could not care less if they want to swap there wives and girl friends and have gang bangs,people are just sick to death of seeing young girls crying and shaking on news items about bloody footballers treating them like cattle,it just seems way to accepted in the code.

The activity has been a part of surfing and the rock music subcultures.

It has been suggested that gang banging is strongly associated with working class culture and social deprivation. However, in south east Queensland in the 60s and 70s “sugar trains” were a feature of parties thrown by private school pupils and old boys. “Toot toot” was the signal that something was on in a room or shed or “shaggin waggon” . Many currently prominent and very upright Queenslanders and their spouses were part of this scene to my certain knowledge.

It’s a dismal history and all that has changed is that we are now talking about it.

St Paul got it about right… “Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.“

Let’s see now, there’s a psycho chick in NZ who wants to destory my life and would shoot me if she had a gun. My name will be splashed accross every front page for my family to read and be humiliated by. I will be called every name under the sun by a public completely unaware of the true facts. My current wife or partner will be humiliated as well after the over-the-top character assasination I will surely receive. And the upside is…

Wow that’s a tough choice to make.

And to the idiot who criticised Steve for saying bring on this week’s football. What do you want to happen? Cancel this week’s games so we can talk even more about a girl who regrets having sex with a bunch of footballers seven years ago?

This is a joke right? After all the physical and sexual child abuse that the catholic schools have handed out over the years? They make me sick.

A high profile player who is now a commentator and a sex scandal – bound to hit the headlines. I only wonder why it took so long!

I think this piece was superbly written and I agree with a lot of it. I am quite happy to keep it a moral debate.
What I really hate are articles like this… http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2009/05/15/1242335882833.html
the subtext of which seems to be saying that ‘while it wasnt rape technically by the law it still was rape’.
To my mind it needs to be clear that if a person has not been charged let alone convicted then they are innocent under the law.

Lets keep this a moral debate.

TOM- I dont know where you have been but I cant remember too many vulnerable or naive 19 year olds girls when I was that age.
Quite the reverse actually.

Anyway… thanks to theroar.com.au again for allowing an indepth debate!

Nate Hornblower, how do you know what she did and did not consent to? Maybe she did only consent to two, which leaves anyone else who had sex up for rape, and anyone else who flogged off watching facing charges of an act of indecency.

But because you and I don’t know the real story, *maybe* the story is that she was up for the whole lot of them. Certainly the police investigating it didn’t think that lack of consent could get off the ground, so what are you really basing your assumption on?

On what she said? Why should we assume that it is accurate? Why shouldn’t we consider the possibility that her recollection has been coloured by her subsequent shame and self loathing, and need to cast her herself as an innocent who was taken advantage of?

Just do us all a favour, and think beyond the version of events that people pushing agendas want you to swallow. As Chuck D said: don’t believe the hype!

I would imagine many of the women who choose to engage in such group sex may already be suffering from low self esteem and personality/psychological problems. I have heard people say ‘the mad ones are the best in bed’. To what extent are their problems such as attempted suicide, depression, failing studies etc a result of the “sexual abuse” or “degradation” and to what extent are they merely behavioural patterns consistent with someone who chooses to have group sex with footballers? How do we know this ‘Clare’ wouldn’t have had the same problems had she not had the group sex? ie did the incident cause these problems in her life?

Legend has it there was some guy at the gay mardi gras who would lie in the urinal wanting men to urinate on him. Many people pay prostitutes to tie them up and whip them. Some people do crazy things. Some might regret them later some may not. Too many judgemental people in the world at the moment.

And to preempt personal questions that will be asked by people wanting to feel better about themselves yes I have a daughter and yes I am happily married in a monogamous relationship. If my daughter or son chooses to engage in intercourse with a dozen men I simply ask that they use a condom.

I dunno why people are rushing to defend league. It’s not like these players have been wrongfully accused. People are so worried about their code being harmed that they get defensive, but I don’t get this player-victim mentality. If guys are worried about their image, they ought to clean it up. And if it’s casting a bad light on everyone — seniors, juniors, clubs, communities, whoever — then the NRL administrators need to be more severe. Because like or not, the only time the media will turn a blindeye to a sex scandal is when it a) slips through the cracks or b) goes high up.

Johns screwed up. On what possible grounds can you defend him? People talk about a witch hunt and trial by media, but hello, what kind of a defence is that?

Firstly, why woere they not taught such lessons, by parents, family, school (church etc etc etc)? Especially parents.

Next, If my employer wanted to regulate my drinking and social life, outside of work hours, then they would find it hard to convince me that they even came close to having the right to even consider it.

Finally, and this is going off on a tangent, what made the morons who decided to “climb in through the window” to join in decide that this was acceptable? In my mind it makes me think that this was not an isolated incident.

Also, where can I find out who were in the squad that weekend…Surely someone must have a “Big League” from 2002 laying around. Having heard the stories, just about every one of the squad members must have been implicated…

All these people who are defending him, try using those defences on his wife, or your wife, partner, girlfriend… It was just group sex, honey. Totally consensual. Just me and a few of the boys. Y’know, a bit of bonding.

I’ll feel like a hypocrite when I have group sex with a rugby league team.

In this situation, the girl consented to having sex with 2 blokes. She did not consent to have sex with with half the football team while the rest of them stood around watching and masturbating. She didn’t consent to them acting like animals, jumping through bathroom windows to get a look and cop a feel.

So Steve are you a father? Do you have a daughter? If the answer to those questions is YES, then how would you feel if this had happened to your daughter? If 7 years later she is still a wreck, suicidal and so angry still at these people, how as a father would that make you feel?

Personally I feel sorry for Matthew Johns but his employers still made the right choices, they had very little choice but to act they way they have. Johns shouldn’t have to bear the brunt of this fire storm alone….we know a good portion of the touring squad at the time were involved yet they all remain silent.

You had very little that was constructive to say and just want to get on with the footy, thank you for your pitiful addition to the public sphere on this issue.

I agree with your assertion of the value of the 4corners report. The statement “This is not about 1 man, 1 woman, or one story” is in reference to the prolfieration of sexual abuse in our culture, that its not restricted to any single event or any single person, and that we can’t hold Matty Johns accountable as an individual for all and sundry. However as a ‘celebrity’ or ‘brand’ Matty Johns makes his bread off the back of public opinion. The detractors are right, in a sense, that he has committed no crime (that we know of). Public opinion is telling us that we don’t condone this behaviour, legal or illegal, perpetrated by anyone, let alone a visible cultural icon.

Confusing the arguement by picking apart media commentators and scrutinising the legal validity or hollowness of their arguements detracts from the real heart of the matter. Public opinion and cultural destiny. Matty Johns will serve his penance and (fingers crossed) could become a genuine positive in the future as a ‘pheonix-risen’ who’s seen the error of his ways, but we have to censor ourselves from offering him lifelines and easy out options or finding convaluted ways to defend him. Let the man reap what he has sown.

I too have had close contact with someone who suffered from sexual abuse. An ex of mine had a guy force himself on her prior to our relationship. She never said ‘no’ because she shut down as a defense mechanism. It pretty much ruined her for years with the common blaming herself etc…

Now people can rightly say “how was Matty Johns and the boys to know she wasn’t up for it if she didn’t say so” its a grey area, no question. But why did Matty feel the need to step away and apologize to her afterward (his words)?

Also, re the co-workers statement. My ex would talk and laugh about her situation all the time…that is common for people hiding pain.