Selecting the Greatest Lions XV of all time
Roar Guru By James Mortimer, 26 May 2009 James Mortimer is a Roar Guru
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- Barry John, British Lions, Fergus Slattery, Gareth Edwards, Gavin Hastings, Gerald Davies, Ian McLauchlan, Jeremy Guscott, JPR Williams, Martin Johnson, Mervyn Davies, Mike Gibson, Peter Wheeler, Richard Hill, Rugby Union, Syd Millar, Tony O’Reilly, Willie John McBride
Auckland, July 9, 2005. Lions squad during the minutes silence before the British and Irish Lions v All Blacks third test at Eden Park, Auckland, New Zealand. AAP Image/Geoff Dale
The first in a series of articles in the build up to the 2009 British and Irish Lions tour, I take a look at a compilation of the best Lions team of all time.
Picked on hours of painstaking research, I was sure to make the team a fair representation of all of the home nations – and look forward to the ensuing debate!
Fullback: JPR Williams (Wales) 8 tests
While not a noted tactical kicker like Gavin Hastings (1989-1993, 6 tests) ironically it was a long range drop goal that effectively won the Lions the 1971 series against the All Blacks. The sheer attacking genius of John Peter Rhys saw him play an integral role in the all conquering side that toured South Africa in 1974.
Wing: Gerald Davies (Wales) 5 tests
Originally a centre, he was moved to the wing in his later years, to devastating effect. He scored three tries against the All Blacks in the victorious 1971 series. Davies will be manager of the Lions for the upcoming Springbok tour.
Centre: Jeremy Guscott (England) 7 tests
Some would argue that Brian O’Driscoll deserves the spot more, but England’s glamour centre has a definitive impact on the Lions stage unlike his Irish counterpart. His influence in 1989 and 1997 essentially turned those series, a genuine Lions match winner.
Centre: Mike Gibson (Ireland) 12 tests
Played top level rugby in an astonishing 15 year career, and played in five Lions tours. His finest hour was in 1971, where playing at number 12, he caused untold havoc in the midfield, causing the All Black centres of Wayne Cotrell and Howard Joseph numerous headaches.
Wing: Tony O’Reilly (Ireland) 10 tests
One of rugby’s great financial success stories, the try scoring exploits of O’Reilly has often been forgotten. Broke the Lions try scoring record in South Africa in 1954/55 at the age of 19. All up he would score an astonishing 37 tries in two tours and 36 matches.
Fly half: Barry John (Wales) 5 tests
Quite simply, his nickname “The King” says it all. Only played in two Lions tours, but in 1971 he scored 30 of the Lions 48 test points and terrorised the All Blacks in a manner no single player had ever done before. A position where Phil Bennett (1974-1977, 8 tests) deserves honorary mention.
Scrum half: Gareth Edwards (Wales) 10 tests
In a generation where the Red Dragons were blessed with playing class, he was arguably the greatest Welsh player of all time. Partnered with the King and was instrumental in a golden age of Lions rugby where they beat the All Blacks and Springboks in 1971 and 1974.
Number eight: Mervyn Davies (Wales) 8 tests
The great “Merv the Swerv” is regarded as the best eighth forward produced by Wales; and one of their greatest ever captains, another in the golden generation of the 1970’s that defeated the All Blacks and Springboks in consecutive tours.
Flanker: Fergus Slattery (Ireland) 4 tests
Considered by many to be the fastest flank forward to have ever played, and was part of the illustrious Lions back row that shamed the Springboks in 1974.
Flanker: Richard Hill (England) 5 tests
One of the England hard men that set the tone for the Lions in South Africa, and was instrumental in negating the impact of a glorious Wallaby loose forward trio in 2001.
Lock: Martin Johnson (England) 8 tests
The only man to captain the Lions on two separate occasions, and leader of the team that defeated the Springboks in 1997 when they last toured. Said to have been made by his performances on that tour, and would catalyst dominance for both Leicester and England in the coming years.
Lock: Willie John McBride (Ireland) 17 tests
Five times Lions tourist and considered by many to be the greatest lock forward ever produced by the home nations. McBride first toured with Arthur Smiths Lions to South Africa in1962, before being part of the magical side of 1971 that defeated the All Blacks, and then captained the side to success in 1974.
Prop: Ian McLauchlan (Scotland) 8 tests
Mighty Mouse only once played in a losing test match and was part of the formidable 1971/1974 front row that stopped the might of the All Black and Springbok packs in their tracks. He was one of the pioneers of front row running play, and a terror in the loose.
Hooker: Peter Wheeler (England) 7 tests
Wheeler narrowly beats Keith Wood (1997-2001, Ireland) as the Lions rake on account of what was widely regarded as the best athleticism ever seen in a rugby hooker; and ousted the outstanding Welsh legend Bobby Windsor as the Lions incumbent.
Prop: Syd Millar (Ireland) 9 tests
Three playing tours from 1959 to 1966 that could be said to have formed the foundations for teaching Millar the formula’s required for Lions success, despite losing most matches in this time. He was part of the success of the seventies, where he would coach the 1974 champions and would then come back to manage a fifth tour in 1980.
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May 26th 2009 @ 8:08am
sheek said | May 26th 2009 @ 8:08am | Report comment
KO,
“Who Dares, Wins”. You will get my total support in anguish about teams with brilliant backs who don’t use them!
The 1971 tour was early in my rugby exposure, & my memory has to be augmented with the history books. I do know many historians say if you combined the 71 backs with the 74 forwards, you would have close to the ultimate Lions team. Well actually, they do say that is the ultimate team.
So let’s have a look.
71 starting Backs.
15-JPR. Williams(W)
14-G.Davies(W)
13-J.Dawes(W)
12-M.Gibson(I)
11-D.Duckham(E)
10-B.John(W)
9-G.Edwards(W)
74 starting Forwards.
8-M.Davies(W)
7-F.Slattery(I)
6-R.Uttley(E)
5-WJ.McBride(I)
4-G.Brown(S)
3-F.Cotton(E)
2-R.Windsor(W)
1-I.McLauchlan(S)
74 reserve Backs.
22-A.Irvine(S)
21-I.McGeechan(S)
20-J.Moloney(I)
71 reserve Forwards.
19-J.Taylor(W)
18-DTThomas(W)
17-S.Carmichael(S)
16-J.Pullin(E)
The starting XV has 7 Welshman, 3 each of Englishmen & Irishmen, & 2 Scotsmen. The bench has 3 Scotsmen, 2 welshmen & one each of Englishmen & Irishmen.
The 1971 & 74 combined 22 contains 9 from Wales; 5 from Scotland & 4 each from England & Ireland.
May 26th 2009 @ 10:51am
Sam Taulelei said | May 26th 2009 @ 10:51am | Report comment
I guess the most difficult aspect of this exercise is the makeup of the Lions team itself and whether you can judge the performance of someone in a Lions jersey in isolation as opposed to what they’ve done wearing their own national colours. Many players selected have distinguished careers and I must admit that I remember all of them more for what they’ve done for their country than what they did playing for the Lions, which is a much shorter career. Knives Out I understand your point about it being heavily slated towards the 1971 and 74 teams – does that mean the achievements of those players on the 1989 and 1997 tours are any less or is it more the fact that those players in the seventies have entered the annals of rugby as legends from an era where British rugby was particularly strong and it would be considered sacrosanct to omit them.
May 26th 2009 @ 11:07am
OldManEmu said | May 26th 2009 @ 11:07am | Report comment
Nice work James – keep it up.
Coming from my usual and preferred position of supreme ignorance, I will say that the epitome of a British Lion is Finlay Calder. His captaincy of the Lions on the 1989 tour of Australia was just so bloody Lions….
Surely there would have been many many better players than him that pulled on the jersey; but has there been any who wanted to win more than he. Probably a few that wanted to win as much, but none more. Such a Scot; skinny legged, slow, dogged, tough, unsmiling – what a leader.
This is pure speculation but I am guessing he was not a popular Captain, probably only spoke to the other Scots in the side – but he would have had the full respect of his touring party. Can any NH types provide any insights into Finlay Calder? Perhaps I am completely wrong.
May 26th 2009 @ 12:12pm
Hemjay said | May 26th 2009 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
James I liked the read well done.
I do though agree with some posters that a greatest team is all hypothetical and how can we really compare players from different decades its all a stab in the dark and he said she said an once again comes down to opinions.
The Lions are a great rugby institution and the 2005 tour to NZ was excellent it certainly created a buzz having them here and no doubt the atmosphere in SA right now will be off the wall.
May 26th 2009 @ 12:26pm
Hemjay said | May 26th 2009 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
Also to help give some insight to a few of he Lads who have questioned the great focus on players from 74 and 71. Well 74 the series win over South Africa 3-0 including the 22 match unbeaten run outside of the test matched, I can’t say Im too sure but this may have had something to do with it.
71 was the first and only time a combined team had / has ever beaten NZ in a series. So its understandable that this team is rated so highly.
I’m sure South Africa will be looking for revenge this time around to make amends for their series loss to the Lions in 97
May 26th 2009 @ 12:32pm
Frank O'Keeffe said | May 26th 2009 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
The thing that’s difficult about these exercises is that, as ohtani’s jacket once said to, rugby doesn’t place any emphasis on individual statistics so all you have to go on is legacy. In the case of Lions it’s mostly only winning Lions – Lions from ’71 and ’74 – that get picked. Because rugby is so team orientated a great Lions could easily get overlooked if he wasn”t in a successful Lions side.
I think the 2001 Lions were incredibly strong. If you ask most Englishmen who their greatest ever player is they’re likely say Johnno. If you ask the Irish who their best ever hooker was they’ll talk about Keith Wood. He was MOTM in that first Test demolition in 2001. Some Welshmen put Row Howley second only to Gareth Edwards in their halfback stakes. Howley badly outperformed Gregan in that first test and during the first half of the second game. The second half of the second Test was Gregan at his best IMO.
O’Driscoll’s form was sensational in that first game. There was his famous try just after the break, but he unlocked the Aussie defence (the best defence in the world at that time) with considerable ease about 4-5 times. One lead to another try to Daffyd James. Jason Robinson’s try in the first Test was brilliant. With no room to move he burnt off Chris Latham with a delightful in-and-away.
Yet how many of these players would get selected in an all-time Lions side? They all played amazingly well for the Lions. And while we’ll never know this for sure, I’d back that Lions side the beat New Zealand had they played them in 2001 instead of Australia. Hell, if the Lions had Howley and Hill for the final Test the Lions might have won that series. I know this is all guess-work, but that was a great side.
… yet who from that side will make a Lions XV for all time?
May 26th 2009 @ 1:14pm
sheek said | May 26th 2009 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
Frank,
So well written, “O Wise One”!
The Lions of 1971 & 74 tend to answer all those queries about why we bother selecting greatest teams across different eras. Of all the Lions teams in history, none have come close to the record of 1971 & 74.
Consequently, because the two tours were back to back, those players who appeared in both series tend to be automatic selections among the pantheon of the Gods. So who were they?
Players to appear on both tours, plus the number of tests they played on those tours:
Fullback: JPR. Williams (Wales), 4 + 4 = 8 tests.
Centre: Mike Gibson (Ireland), 4 + 0 = 4 tests.
Scrumhalf: Gareth Edwards (Wales), 4 + 4 = 8 tests.
Eightman: Mervyn Davies (Wales), 4 + 4 = 8 tests.
Flanker: Fergus Slattery (Ireland), 0 + 4 = 4 tests.
Lock: Willie-John McBride (Ireland), 4 + 4 = 8 tests.
Lock: Grodon Brown (Scotland), 2 + 3 = 5 tests.
Prop: Ian McLauchlan (Scotland), 4 + 4 = 8 tests.
Prop: Sandy Carmichael (Scotland), 0 + 0 = 0 tests.
Interestingly, Carmichael & Ray McLoughlin (Ireland) went to NZ in 1971 as the first-choice props, but both were injured & out of the tour before the first test. McLauchlan & Sean Lynch (Ireland) then grabbed their opportunity.
I thought it would be interesting to show the 1973 Barbarians that played & won that wonderful game against the All Blacks. This team was a bridge between the 71 & 74 Lions.
15-JPR.Williams(W), 14-D.Duckham(E), 13-J.Dawes(W), 12-M.Gibson(I), 11-JC.Bevan(W), 10-P.Bennett(W), 9-G.Edwards(W), 8-D.Quinnell(W), 7-F.Slattery(I), 6-T.David(W), 5-WJ.McBride(I), 4-R.Wilkinson(E), 3-S.Carmichael(S), 2-J.Pullin(E), 1-R.McLoughlin(I).
12 players toured NZ in 71 – Williams, Duckham, Dawes, Gibson, Bevan, Edwards, Quinnell, Slattery, McBride, Carmichael, Pullin & McLoughlin – while 8 players toured SA in 74 – Williams, Gibson, Bennett, Edwards, Slattery, David, McBride, Carmichael.
Frank,
I still don’t know how the Wallabies beat the Lions in 2001. It shouldn’t have happened. Why was there such a massive turnaround in the second half of the second test? How did Harrison steal that last line-out ball from Johnson in the last minute of the third test?
However, the 2001 loss no doubt had a lot to do with the English members of the team going on to win the WC in 2003. They certainly worked so much harder after the disappointment of 2001.
The outstanding players from that tour? Where do you start? Smith(S), Wood(I) & Young(W) in the front row; Johnson(E) at lock; the backrow of Hill(E), Back(E) & Quinnell(W); halfs Howley(W) & Wilkinson(E); O’Driscoll(I) in the centre & wingers James(W) & Robinson(E) – were all truly outstanding.
May 26th 2009 @ 2:14pm
Worlds Biggest said | May 26th 2009 @ 2:14pm | Report comment
Great article, the memories of the 1989 and 2001 Lions Tours here are still very vivid. Of course the all conquering 71 & 74 Lions teams will dominate the greatest ever team. That was a phenominal effort.
May 26th 2009 @ 2:35pm
Hemjay said | May 26th 2009 @ 2:35pm | Report comment
I think something that gets overlooked amongst all this, is how often and more so than not that the Sothern Hemisphere nations beat the best of 4 nations?
What does that say of the calibre of our South African, Australian and New Zealand teams over the years?
As a Kiwi off course I’m a little bais but since the inception of the combined team in 1888 the Lions have only beaten NZ once.
Frank while I agree that the 2001 Lions were a very good team surely the Australian team was of superior quality if not they would’ve lost the series right.
May 26th 2009 @ 2:42pm
Frank O'Keeffe said | May 26th 2009 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
Sheek,
“Why was there such a massive turnaround in the second half of the second test? How did Harrison steal that last line-out ball from Johnson in the last minute of the third test?”
To my mind it all began in the front-row. People highlight Roff’s intercept as the turning point of that game, but I think that try only got Australia back in the game. The real turning point for me was when the Aussie scrum (which had been flogged in the 1st Test) spoiled one scrum, went down the blind and Roff got his second try. That really said to the Lions that Australia were getting some momentum.
Australia’s big mistake in the first Test was that they didn’t assert any forward momentum – you have to earn the right to go wide by going forward. Instead they spread the ball wide, trying to find a weakness with Henderson and O’Driscoll which wasn’t there. The forwards couldn’t get into the game with the Aussies getting smashed out wide. Larkham couldn’t get into the game. Things unravelled after that and things like Stephen Larkham missing tackles started to happen (I rate Larkham highly as a defender).
But in the second Test the Aussies started to hold their own in the front-row in the second test and it allowed Finnegan and Kefu to impact on the Test with their running game. Gregan was fantastic at marshalling them too. I love the try where Gregan offloaded to Kefu, who got Australia over the advantage line, and then Gregan offloaded to Finnegan, who got past the advantage line and off-loaded to Matt Burke who scored a try. It was just a great example of the forward momentum the Aussie players had established. To me, Gregan, Finnegan, Kefu and Roff were the best players… but nothing would have happened if the front-row didn’t find parity. You can hear Graham Henry on the DVD ‘Living with the Lions’ talking to his players before the third test about how important the battle in the front row was.
Ill-dicipline let down both sides in the third and final test. It was just too intense for both sides to maintain their dicipline. Justin Harrison’s grab was an intelligent move because there’s no guarentee the Aussies, if they stayed on the ground, could have prevented a try. The Lions scored off a maul in the second test. Of course the execution of Harrison’s jump was brilliant as well.
But I think Australia won that series because they were able to find parity in the front row which enabled their carriers to establish some momentum.
But for all that, the Lions still probably should have won. As miserable as Australia was in that first test, the Lions were brillaint as I noted above. Nothing Australia did in the second half of that second Test would have mattered if the Lions had just put more points on the board in that first half. The Lions had everything – territory, possession etc. Everything but points.