By Mike Tuckerman
June 5th 2009 @ 1:14am
Related coverage
Pressure’s on Pim no matter what the result
Australia's coach Pim Verbeek reacts from the sideline during the friendly match between The Netherlands and Australia at the Philips stadium in Eindhoven, southern Netherlands, Saturday, Sept. 6, 2008. AP Photo/Ermindo Armino
By the time Australians awake from their slumber on Sunday morning, the Socceroos may have already qualified for a second successive World Cup finals appearance. With three qualifiers remaining, Australia need just a point to book their seat on the plane to the world’s most popular sporting event.
Yet, even drawing with Qatar in the desert of Doha could be easier said than done.
With temperatures expected to soar towards the 40 degree mark at the compact Al Sadd Stadium, the Socceroos will be up against more than just a desperate Qatari side aiming to sneak into third place in the group.
Wily tactician Bruno Metsu has pinned his faith on youth for Qatar’s must-win encounter – dropping captain Saad Al Shammari from his squad and including teenage defender Ibrahim Majid after he scored the winner in a recent friendly against Iraq.
But while Harry Kewell was quoted this week as suggesting that Australia “don’t need to win pretty,” the pressure will remain on coach Pim Verbeek no matter what the result.
That’s partly the result of the increasing influence of our football media.
Late last week The Roar’s very own Jesse Fink was taken to task over at The World Game website, for daring to question why Verbeek had dropped Reading goalkeeper Adam Federici in favour of Middlesbrough custodian Brad Jones.
I thought it was a reasonable question to ask.
I’ll even lay my cards on the table and admit that I’m an unabashed fan of Jesse.
I may not always agree with what he writes – I reckon he needs his head read if he thinks that “the 39th game” is in the best interests of the sport – but I admire his willingness to consistently ask questions that make him about as popular as a Melbourne Victory fan at a Sydney FC club luncheon.
After all, isn’t one of the responsibilities of the media to hold the powers that be to account?
I’m sure that Pim Verbeek can handle any criticism. He’s a calm and composed individual and no doubt he’s generously recompensed for his role as national coach.
Besides, a little tit-for-tat in the Australian press is nothing compared to the suffocating pressure of coaching South Korea.
What will be interesting is whether Verbeek chooses to experiment with his line-up should Australia pick up the point required in Doha.
Verbeek has already named an experimental line-up in one home qualifier – the dead rubber against China at ANZ Stadium a year ago – and he was widely criticised by fans as the Socceroos went down 1-0.
Then there’s the issue of Japan.
The Blue Samurai have suddenly roared into life with back-to-back 4-0 friendly wins over Chile and Belgium in the Kirin Cup, and they’ll be buzzing at the prospect of trying to snatch top spot in the group off Australia.
Japan coach Takeshi Okada has a selection quandary of his own – whether to thrust 18-year-old Urawa Reds sensation Naoki Yamada into his starting line-up.
The teenage midfielder is drawing parallels with the great Shinji Ono – one of the most talented Asian midfielders of our time before a series of knee injuries all but ended his career.
Urawa’s stern German coach Volker Finke has warned against putting too much pressure on Yamada, whose rise to national prominence has been meteoric to say the least.
The production line of talent shows no sign of grinding to a halt in Japan, and Takeshi Okada may be tempted to send out his youngest player in the hotbed that is the MCG.
If Pim Verbeek feels under pressure, a glance towards the Japan bench might provide some small consolation.
After all, no matter how much pressure he faces from Australian fans and media, things could be worse.
He could be in Takeshi Okada’s shoes.
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tifosi said | June 5th 2009 @ 8:25am | Report comment
No way the FFA will let Pim experiment in the bahrain and japan games.
The Australian public was, and still is, right to be upset about paying money to see that performance against china.
The paying public deserve better, especially with the prices of the tickets for these two games.
Slippery Jim said | June 5th 2009 @ 8:36am | Report comment
Sometimes a person shows “willingness to consistently ask questions” as an intelligent way of penetrating the BS and getting to the truth of a matter.
And sometimes they do it because they have got absolutely no clue about the subject to begin with.
We all have our agendas and influences, for instance, Jesse praised Mike Tuckerman in his last article for his great work on the roar, and Mike scratches his back in return by declaring himself publicly to be a fan of Jesse Fink in this, his very next article.
Now, I certainly find many of his articles entertaining to read, but outside of the Roar Writers Mutual Admiration Society, it is harder to view Jesse as a writer who consistently asks all the hard questions. He actually leaves a lot of the important questions out altogether so as not to jeapardize his stridently held opinions.
As an example, as everyone knows, Jesse Fink’s one-man propaganda campaign promoting Nicky Carle is a well known in-joke in the Aussie football community.
Jesse Fink has constantly and consistently blamed in quite strong language the resident Socceroos coach for not giving his favourite player a fair chance in the national team. It became public knowledge as reported by Mike Cockerill and others that Nick Carle asked for himself to be excused from Socceroos duty in the China world cup qualifier in Sydney, and later the Socceroos matches against Uzbekistan and the Netherlands, Nick Carle siting “rest” and “personal reasons” as the excuse for opting out of Socceroos duty.
Did Jesse ask the hard questions about the players commitment? Did he even mention that Nick Carle himself was to blame for lack of match time in thes matches? No. Silence.
So, yes, Jesse may consistently ask questions, but only the questions that further his own agenda and opinions, pretty much like every other journalist. It is for the very reason that there are so many other football journalists like him in Australia that Pim will face criticism no matter what result is achieved against Qatar early Sunday morning.
whiskeymac said | June 5th 2009 @ 8:46am | Report comment
Well the whole qualification Aleague debate evenmade the guardina this time. some interesting blog comments there too…. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/jun/04/australia-socceroos-world-cup-2010-qualifiers
tifosi said | June 5th 2009 @ 9:08am | Report comment
great article, thx whiskeymac
Tom said | June 5th 2009 @ 9:23am | Report comment
Mike, we clearly have a different understanding of what ‘asking the tough questions’ means.
For me, it involves not just questioning the views of the people in power, but also your own prejudices and perceptions. Fink has a very annoying tendency to rabbit on about the same topics repeatedly, bleating triumphantly when he feels vindicated and quietly ignoring his own mistakes.
Not that I don’t find his articles interesting to read, nor do I think he’s uninformed.
I just think ‘asking the tough questions’ is a compliment he doesn’t really deserve.
And seriously, how tough a question is ‘who should be Australia’s third choice goalkeeper?’.
Koala Bear said | June 5th 2009 @ 9:29am | Report comment
” I’m currently living in the UAE and was at the teams training session (in Dubai) last night. In a practice hit out, Pim set the team up with Scotty Mac up front, Kewell as a left winger and Nicky Carle just behind Scotty… and the combo was working a treat! Several times they broke through the defence (consisting of Neil, Coyne, Carney and North) however, I wouldn’t read into it too much, seeing as Cahill flies into camp today and will change the dynamic of that trio anyway. And with the likes of Kennedy, Holeman and Djite lingering in the background, it’s obvious that Socceroos have the quality in attack even if Dukes doesn’t hop on board. He’s had his day and it’s been much appreciated by all, but I think it’s time for him and the team to move on. ”
Slippery Jim,
you may find yourself out on a limb; if this on the scene report is true my ol’ Chelsea team mate… It sure sounds like Pimbo is warming to Nicky Carle’s Zola type creativeness … Gosh he might even start him instead of Timmy who needs a well deserved rest after playing the mighty Blues in the FA Cup with no apparent affect up against Essin (the Brick Wall)
~~~~~~~~
KB
Koala Bear said | June 5th 2009 @ 9:32am | Report comment
yes a great article, whiskeymac
~~~~~~~~
KB
Pippinu said | June 5th 2009 @ 9:37am | Report comment
That probably says a lot about a back four consisting of Neil, Coyne, Carney and North.
Millster said | June 5th 2009 @ 9:40am | Report comment
Moving away from the Jesse-Carle issue.
I find the line “increasing influence of our football media” to be vexatious when linked to other tangets of the media discussion on this site and elsewhere.
Its difficult to comprehend how a media can on the one hand exert pressure and influence on the national coach and team, but on the other not break through from its position of relative marginalisation in the general public.
Not a value judgement or a particular criticism, but just an observation that in my mind this assertion that football media has so much power is inconsistent with other assertions put elsewhere.
Kind of related to all this, to Timmy’s comments, to what the game this weekend means etc incidentally is my view that someone needs to put squarely on the table the issue of the Australian public’s sporting psyche and how it needs to grow up significantly in relation to football.
Slippery Jim said | June 5th 2009 @ 9:43am | Report comment
KB, not at all – it was a year ago that Nicky Carle asked to be excused from those matches, he is showing a different, much more hungry and committed attitude by training furiously to get into the squad based his current fitness and form (some critics might point to the fact that this is because Australia is now a certainty to make the next world cup).
This shows a change in attitude in the player and is exactly the kind of effort that national team managers want to see from players that are on the fringe, after all they pick players on form and fitness not on reputation. As such Nicky has earnt his place in the greater squad in recent times, I have no problem with him being given match time, in fact I would welcome an opportunity to see how he performs these days. (As a side note, Kewell is also looking extremely fit and hungry – can’t wait until Sunday morning!).
Take Ljubo as a contrast in attitudes – mouthing of in foul mouthed rants at both the national and club coach – he is doing himself no favours, and even if he was in form any manager would think twice about picking an obvious malcontent and troublemaker into their squad for the world cup.
Pippinu said | June 5th 2009 @ 9:44am | Report comment
Millster
was that a long winded way of saying we should be wrapt at the prospect of qualifying for two consecutive WCs?
If so, I agree.
If not, what the hell are you trying to say??!!
Pippinu said | June 5th 2009 @ 9:46am | Report comment
sj
Kewell looks like his absolutely jumping out of his skin – might be his best game in a gold shirt for many a year (if the heat doesn’t kill him first).
Midfielder said | June 5th 2009 @ 10:43am | Report comment
Mike
The SBS team is the most football knowledgeable pannel in Australia… If you were to ask any of the leading football nations in the world would they play the way we have and be in our position.. You and I both know the answer from most would be YES.
Interesting with such a knowledgeable team why so much is questioned … any idea why …
Pippinu said | June 5th 2009 @ 10:48am | Report comment
Good point Mid.
Mike Tuckerman said | June 5th 2009 @ 10:50am | Report comment
Slippery Jim – I chose to disclose the fact that I enjoy Jesse’s work this week because I found it odd that last week he was criticised for asking why Adam Federici was dropped. It had nothing to do with whether he “praised” my last article. I appreciate the compliment, but I don’t see fit to comment every time someone enjoys something that I write – Roar colleague or otherwise.
Millster – I was referring to the influence of our football media relative to football itself. I would very much like to see football become a hot topic within the mainstream media in the way that State of Origin or Terry Wallace’s resignation is this week, but just because the Socceroos are not on the backpage of the Telegraph every day or the lead sports story on Channel Nine every night doesn’t mean we don’t have a vibrant (and growing) football media and one that is attempting to cover more angles of the game than was possible in the past.
Pippinu said | June 5th 2009 @ 11:01am | Report comment
More coverage than the resignation of Plough?? That’s asking a lot!!
Mike Tuckerman said | June 5th 2009 @ 11:10am | Report comment
Is that his nickname? I have to be honest… I had to just run him through Wikipedia to see who he was!
Midfielder – the word “agenda” does get thrown about quite a bit in relation to the differing stances adopted by various media outlets. As a fan first and foremost, I’m delighted with the way qualification has gone this time around. But I don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking questions. As Australian football fans, don’t we all want what’s best for our game? I suppose the friction arises because we’ve all got different opinions on the best way for the game to move forward.
Koala Bear said | June 5th 2009 @ 11:17am | Report comment
The SBS team is the most football knowledgeable pannel in Australia…
Midfielder,
that is the only part of your comment I would agree with….
If we are not one of the top five nations in Asia… I will down all of my green and yellow pills in one hit…. And leave the pink blood pressure ones for you… Midfielder we then better not ask the Brazilians or the Spaniards what they would do as being one of the top 5 nations in their confederations … I think we both would know what their football philosophy would demand…
~~~~~~~~~
KB
Strikerx said | June 5th 2009 @ 11:28am | Report comment
While it is a game of opinions, we really don’t want to go the way of England where the players have an “us” and “them” mentality against the media and the fans. That’s is why I am disappointed with the recent so-called “debate” about “performances” and the tenure of the coach. (Please save that for when there actually is a crisis.) It has been a terrific campaign and we are going to the World Cup!! We’ve probably never had it so good (Asian Cup qualification aside, which is a very important issue). We should be fully behind this team that we derive so much enjoyment from and which is achieving great things in far away places. We can achieve a lot more together than if we are divided. That is our strength. Let’s not undermine that. Be part of it.
Koala Bear said | June 5th 2009 @ 11:41am | Report comment
” Kind of related to all this, to Timmy’s comments, to what the game this weekend means etc incidentally is my view that someone needs to put squarely on the table the issue of the Australian public’s sporting psyche and how it needs to grow up significantly in relation to football. “
Millster,
(Lads, I can hear discontented rumbling from the Grooky lads approaching) …
We on the Gold Coast have been flogged to death with the Grooky TV ads every day and night… (So boring) But I’m glad to report up here for a week and a half we have been getting a news report every day on FTA TV of the coming match against Qatar on Sunday … Finally the TV media as far as I can see is on board with more coverage then the Barbarians Rugby for Saturday night on TV 7 … Momentum is growing and Football will win in the end….
~~~~~~~~
KB
Slippery Jim said | June 5th 2009 @ 12:42pm | Report comment
Midfielder, TWG panel certainly are knowledgable, but to call them the most knowledgable football panel in Australia is drawing a long bow, and with very little objective way of measuring it.
For instance, Les Murray – although deservedly a member of the FFA hall of fame – comes from a journalistic background (and also once sang in a covers band named “Rubber Band”). He not only has not played football professionally, but he openly admits he is a neutral and does not support any club in football.
As such he does not have first hand knowledge or experience as either a fan’s perspective in club football, nor all that goes along with experience in playing professional football. So he could not have the experience and knowledge of football many other ex-footballers bring to analysis, no matter how many matches he may have watched. And this is the man who is editorial supervisor for SBS and host of TWG.
jimbo said | June 5th 2009 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
Slippery,
What exactly is your gripe – Jesse always mentions Nick Carle, Nick Carle made himself unavailable for a couple of games or Nick Carle is not good enough to play for Australia? Or all of the above?
Mike and Jesse are two of the best football journalists in the country and make the Telegraph football journalists look like rugby league journalists and the SBS football journalists look like bellyaching old alcoholics.
If declaring yourself unavailable for the Socceroos was a blocker to getting Pimbo-picked, then none of the current team would get selected.
There is no doubting Nick Carle’s ability in my books, and he should be one of the first players selected and I too will keep mentioning his name until he gets selected or Pimbo and Wags the Dog get replaced.
Slippery Jim said | June 5th 2009 @ 1:07pm | Report comment
Jimbo, I know you don’t like Pim Verbeek much, but constantly and solely blaming Pim for not picking Nick Carle when Pim selected him but Nick Carle himself asked not to play for three games and is to blame would be the gripe I mention above…and lack of commitment from a fringe player is always a bad move no matter who the manager is. Pretty straightforward really. Thankfully the effort shown by Carle in his off season this year looks like a turnaround for him. Nick Carle has also, to his credit, been far more honest and truthful than his fans here in Australia in interviews, mentioning his dissapointments with aspects of this season’s performance, including his lack of goals.
jimbo said | June 5th 2009 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
I think it’s more a case of Pimbo’s tactics – Nick Carle is overlooked because of the way Pimbo plays and he won’t be given a chance to play his natural roaming attacking game – it’s just not a good fit.
To Pimbo’s credit he is prepared to give Carle another chance, although he won’t be selected for Qatar. The only hope is we might see him play against Bahrain because of injuries or because we have already qualified by then.
Hopefully he’ll get his alternate-foot-step-over-back-heel-flick-pass-cross right this time.
I believe there’s bad blood between Carle and Wags the Dog and they are not on speaking terms because of previous issues.
Rob Baan never had any problems with Carle.
I’ve also followed his career because he went to my old school, the biggest rugby league school in NSW.
Finno said | June 5th 2009 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
Mate, most countries have a whine because thier coach isnt winning but not Australia we whine because we play ‘boring football’ for crying out loud. The FFA picked Pim and far as I can tell he has delivered, if we get into the World Cup, Pims done his job. I dont think the players who come home for the Socceroos are playing tougher opponents than those in Europe. If we dotn play attractive football well that can come later. Basic thing first. I might even agree with the SBS guys but we aint Brazil and we aint won nothing as far a trophies, there will be alot of good countries not playing in the World Cup in 2010 and they probably play attractive football
Slippery Jim said | June 5th 2009 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
Jimbo, it makes no sense to say Arnold has a problem with Nick Carle as Arnold has been one of the few national managers to use him, as opposed to, say, Guus Hiddink.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | June 5th 2009 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
I find it interesting how we assume that we have a right to be at the World Cup all of a sudden. Personally I’m sick of World Cups where I find myself picking an African, Asian or East European (oh Romania in ‘94, what memories) side to support because there is no Australian side in the mix. We do not have the pedigree to waltz through Asia and if we were in Group B instead of Group A the situation would be exponentially more tense. I for one am grateful for points and believe that once we have them our approach will change. Extended home and away tournaments require a different approach to cup games in neutral venues. Once we have the points let us see if the game plan changes to one better suited to the World Cup group stage.
If Qatar can sort out their shambolic defense then they may be in with a chance. It is not easy playing in the Gulf States and our previous efforts are a testimony to the amount of preparation and thought the FFA has put in. Their existing defense gets the shakes every time we play them, hence Metsu’s changes to bring in players who haven’t had their confidence bruised by the green and gold.
Mike also has an interesting point which appears partially lost on most pundits at the moment (though this may be partly due to the focus on the Qatar game). That is the fact that the Japanese really, and I mean really (I’m married to one so can assure you that many more “reallys” need to be placed in that statement), want to win the group. They will throw everything at Australia at the MCG, dead rubber or no. It will not be a game to wheel out the ‘B’ team by any stretch of the imagination. One or two changes may be fine (give Jedinak and Carle a start, play two up front etc) however anything too dramatic and we will be in for a pasting in front of far too many fans. Expect a great match at the “G”.
SJ, I think that it is a good point re: China as I was disappointed that Carle didn’t take the opportunity. I suspect he has come to regret that now and his training with Sydney was an effort to show how sincere he was in wanting to be a part of the team. I’m willing to give him a go on that basis however I do not believe that anyone has a “right” to be in the team so he will need to take the chance he is given to show what he can add to the squad. Personally I’d like him in as he provides us with greater tactical depth.
whiskeymac said | June 5th 2009 @ 2:55pm | Report comment
aye aye blugaria 94 also good value…..hagi, stoichkov.
good comments Ben, I cant see the Japanese ever (willingly) playing for “nothing” and will always want to win (especially against us, korea, china… whoever in fact) but the same will go for any australian playing for the roos i would wager. but that’s not to say we cannot have one or two guys in there. IMO I dont think people are saying lets give a hopeles guy a start and play “ardiles style spurs” formations- for the most part they are all well paid, euro-professionals and whoever from the squad plays should be able to perform. or so we hope. Its better to find out in a dead rubber, one wewant to win still, than in 12 months time when a first 11 player is injured etc.
Kazama said | June 5th 2009 @ 3:23pm | Report comment
“Expect a great match at the ‘G’” – Glad to hear it Ben as I’ll be there. Aus v Japan is the first leg of my sporting holiday in Melbourne and Sydney over five days. Looking forward to it.
I was so used to the concept of barracking for another team at the World Cup that in 06 I found myself also cheering on Ghana despite Australia’s participation.
whiskeymac said | June 5th 2009 @ 3:35pm | Report comment
ah yes, 2nd teams…. cameroon 90 and holland 98 for me. i hope we win against Japan – not least because it is the biggest game this year (but am prepared to be corrected on that).
Slippery Jim said | June 5th 2009 @ 4:12pm | Report comment
France for me…Brazil also until Rivaldo cheated to get a player sent off by pretending to be hit in the head at the corner flag when they trundled the ball across to him.
Kazama said | June 5th 2009 @ 4:20pm | Report comment
That was against Turkey in 02, wasn’t it? If so, was it in the semi or the group stage match? My memory is a bit hazy.
Slippery Jim said | June 5th 2009 @ 4:31pm | Report comment
Kazama, your memory is actually crystal clear!
Spot on – I had to check Wikipedia to confirm…he was fined by FIFA for his disgraceful display…I wonder if Brazilian fans considered it clever gamesmanship???
Slippery Jim said | June 5th 2009 @ 4:41pm | Report comment
It was their first game of the group stages by the way…
Midfielder said | June 5th 2009 @ 4:52pm | Report comment
Mike / Papa
Mike……Thanks for your comment.
Papa … good to hear from you … you should post more, I am missing you.
……… Work calls will add more latter.
Kazama said | June 5th 2009 @ 4:57pm | Report comment
Thanks Jim, I remember watching it and thinking what an absolute tool. Another cheating Barcelona player.
The Bear said | June 5th 2009 @ 6:27pm | Report comment
Wow, a decent thread… thanks mike, kudos to you. Jim and Jimbo need a group hug. Both Chelski supporters, go on, Timmy won’t mind..lol. Forza ‘Roos, and Pim hope you have learnt those words to you know what.
jimbo said | June 5th 2009 @ 9:28pm | Report comment
Finno,
wait a minute – no ones gripeing about making the World Cup again – I’ll be shouting it from the highest rooftops when it does happen.
Its perfectly OK to disagree with someone’s tactics or team selections – it happens every day – even in SoO rugby league, heaven forbid.
I disagreed with Kossies selections and tactics at SFC but still went to as many games as I could.
Pimbo could get his one point by playing 10 defenders and kicking the ball upfield every time it comes near them – how enthralling.
The Bear said | June 5th 2009 @ 9:40pm | Report comment
Yeah, Jimbo, usually the angry fist waving is on my side of the forest, but the slippery salmon is definitely the one with the sorest head at the moment. Geez, i hope it wan’t anything i said over the last 12 months. Fwiw, i side with you AND our much loved friend TC. We all need to move on and celebrate the achievement…and dare to Dream on. Pim may have shown us his pragmatic side,, but beneath every pragmatist is a bold benny waiting to show us something else.
clayton said | June 6th 2009 @ 9:57am | Report comment
its been a slow, strange awakening in australian soccer.
back when oz was playing argentina, playing iran for a ticket to the world cup, i think there was a sense that we had some good players … but were we good enough? really? there was that win against brazil, but …
but with the media saturation we have nowadays … expectations have changed. our heroes play in the EPL! or in the major leagues of europe! they should be in the world cup! they should be playing better!
i think that with greater media saturation, comes higher expectation.
ps. pim is a pragmatist. i expect no change. the national team will continue to play beautiful, attacking football only when i am playing FIFA 09, or in my dreams. and that is fine with me, cos our pragmatic bunch is heading to our 3rd world cup finals.
sheek said | June 6th 2009 @ 10:18pm | Report comment
Guys, look at the media in Australia.
In our other ‘high profile’ sports, what is the opposition??????????
Take Australian football – who’s the opposition? Well, no-one actually, except maybe Ireland when we play them in convoluted so-called International rules.
Take rugby league – who’s the opposition? New Zealand & Great Britain, & that’s about it. Hardly anything to get excited about.
Take rugby union – who’s the opposition? Realistically, New Zealand, South Africa, England & France. And less occasionally, Argentina, Wales, Ireland, Scotland & Italy. Forget the Pacific Islanders.
Take cricket – who’s the opposition? These days it’s India, South Africa, Sri Lanka & to a lesser extent England, Pakistan, West Indies & New Zealand. Seven countries… hardly a true world sport.
Take aquatics (swimming) – who’s the opposition? After the USA, it’s the affluent countries of Europe who can afford to have swimming pools. Seriously, maybe a dozen or so countries.
My point is? Our media has grown up on the concept of most of our high profile sports being “big fishes in small ponds”. We’ve totally lost the ability of perspective.
Our media fails to appreciate that in such a highly competitive sport as football, even if Qatar was ranked 100th in the world, that would be roughly the equivalent of about 10th in rugby union, 5th in cricket & rugby league, & 2nd in Australian football, since there’s not much else.
That, dear folks, is the truth of it. The media, when it comes to football, continues to display a gross macho ignorance. They will learn, but albeit, very slowly.
Working Class Rugger said | June 6th 2009 @ 11:12pm | Report comment
Sheek
I agree with you in regards to the competitiveness of Soccer. But your being a little harsh on Rugby. Really only the top 50 or so in Soccer are regularly competitive in internationals. Outside that there is a pretty big gap. Yes Rugby may only really have ten Top Tier nations but its alot smaller than Soccer. Plus, alot of the smaller Nations are very even.
sheek said | June 6th 2009 @ 11:25pm | Report comment
WCR,
I guess so – exaggerating things to prove a point.
But the purpose of the exercise remains relevant to football. The Australian media generally don’t appreciate how tough an environment it is in football.
Qatar might not be an international pushover, but they are neither ‘easybeats’. There is also the international structure that makes life so much more difficult for Australians (Socceroos).
They fly to Qatar from many points on the earth – mostly Europe, certainly different countries, also Asia & even back in Australia. They have maybe less than a week to acclimatise & rework combinations, then it’s ‘game on’.
That’s a tough gig in itself.
Working Class Rugger said | June 6th 2009 @ 11:33pm | Report comment
It is. It’s not the ideal situation. Many of the traditional powers apart from probably Brazil and Argentina have their players either playing locally or in a near by league. Australian players often have to travel 20+ hours for games in our region.
As for the media. At the moment no media outlets apart from SBS and Fox have any involvement with the A-League or Soccer in general. Until they do the reception the game recieves will be deciding cold.
sheek said | June 6th 2009 @ 11:47pm | Report comment
WCR,
I’ve posted an article that hopefully will appear on Roar in the next 24 hours or so – ‘Australian rugby union is talentless’.
You might be interested in it. I guess it’s fairly self-explanatory. In the meantime, let’s hope the Socceroos do us proud.
Dan said | June 7th 2009 @ 12:15am | Report comment
Sheek,
“Our media fails to appreciate that in such a highly competitive sport as football, even if Qatar was ranked 100th in the world, that would be roughly the equivalent of about 10th in rugby union, 5th in cricket & rugby league, & 2nd in Australian football, since there’s not much else.”
To interject here may I make the point that soccer’s problem is actually exemplified within this statement. Qatar, a country with a population that is smaller than most small cities, is our opposition in a WC qualifier… It is apparently important, yet most people in Australia know nothing of the people, language or culture of the country’s inhabitants and more than likely have never met anyone from there. What does this mean? Well it means that it’s hard to garner interest… The match was mentioned where I work the other day by our local socceroos superfan and the general response was “Qatar? Who?”. That Qatar is ranked 100 in the world and is “relevant” to us is precisely the problem… They’re all bloody relevant apparently and there’s over 240 countries in the world. There are too many countries with no tangible connection, let alone sporting rivalry, with Australia that we seem to be playing for “important matches” and not enough people care. For interest to be garnered there needs to be a relationship, an understanding, a history. Just look at our rivalry with England; in some sports it’s almost all we have, but people love it because we hate the poms! The Socceroos problem is too much product, but with very little history and often even less relevance (lets face it, outside of the WC very few matches mean anything). I’m not a soccer fan, but I always watch the socceroos when they play Japan because I’ve lived there, speak the language and ever since that world cup loss they really don’t like us in the sport so it’s interesting! Apart from that I honestly couldn’t care how well we play against the other countries in the Asian Championship (well, maybe Korea).
Just my two cents as a non-soccer fan about the lack of media attention.
Captain Random said | June 7th 2009 @ 12:44am | Report comment
Yes, that’s soccer’s problem. Too many countries play it. Why did the English have to spread everywhere they went? It could have been a localised, marginalised game that 95% of the world knew nothing about, like gridiron or hurling. Damn.
Sorry, couldn’t resist. I’ll be serious now. If soccer can’t provide you with what you want, that’s fine. But it’s really a matter of personal taste.
The Bear said | June 7th 2009 @ 8:11am | Report comment
Congrats (of sorts) on the draw. Yay, we’re going Jo’burg!
Joe FC said | June 7th 2009 @ 9:31am | Report comment
Officially qualified with 2 matches remaining, a fantastic result for Pim & Aust football. It would be all too easy to underestimate what has been achieved here, Asian qualification was far from a certainty. Pim has answered his critics and now must be confirmed as coach for Sth Africa. Attention has to switch to Asian Cup qualification where that goal is a long way from being realised.
Dan said | June 7th 2009 @ 10:06am | Report comment
Captain Random,
You need to take my comment in context. I was responding to Sheek’s assertion that the media ignore soccer internationals “because they can’t grasp how important ever single game is”. I was simply trying point out that for the mainstream population games against countries they’ve no knowledge of or connection with in often obscure time slots is much harder to market than say the game against Japan in Melbourne in a couple weeks time. For the soccer fraternity the Qatar match may have been exciting and important, but I doubt it got anything like the ratings of last week’s state of Origin; a game that is only ever between the same 2 states but is fuelled by mutual hatred and history.
Not having a dig at soccer in general, just making the point that the mamoth international scope of the game can actually some times work against it in my opinion.
MVDave said | June 7th 2009 @ 10:27am | Report comment
Dan
“For the soccer fraternity the Qatar match may have been exciting and important, but I doubt it got anything like the ratings of last week’s state of Origin; a game that is only ever between the same 2 states but is fuelled by mutual hatred and history.”
Just reminding you Dan that the SOO was played in prime time for TV whilst The Socceroos – Qatar started at 2am, so yeh SOO may have won the ratings!!!!!!!!
When the Socceroos played Uruguay in 2005 on FTA in prime time they beat the SOO ratings. The Socceroos are the number 1 national team of any of the Oz football codes in terms of interest and popularity.
Captain Random said | June 7th 2009 @ 10:28am | Report comment
Dan -
I wasn’t being serious (which I stated), but having said that, the importance of a game can come from the occasion (knockout stage of a major tournament, one point away from WC qualification, etc.) as well as the opposition and our history with them. Or are you saying that the cricket World Cup final would not be important if Australia was playing the Netherlands as opposed to a traditional rival like England?
And you seem not to rate the importance of the Asian Cup, which is the Socceroos’ only realistic chance to win a tournament, so it seems pretty important. I just find it weird that you would only care if we played Japan or Korea at sometime during the tournament. (What about Iraq? That’s a legitimate rivalry, surely.)
You accept the Japan game is important because of the past, but does that mean that the match at the World Cup was not important because we hadn’t played them before?
Of course the Qatar game didn’t get the ratings of SoO, it was on pay-TV at 2:00 in the morning.
Dan said | June 7th 2009 @ 10:37am | Report comment
Exactly. The time slot was one of my points against the lack of media attention that sheek was ascribing to the ignorance of the media toward the hardships of the code (to paraphrase). The Uruguay game was a little different to Qatar as well in my opinion – the socceroos HAD to win to make the WC and Uruguay’s media helped build the game up by reporting how their players “had a god given right to make the WC” – this is a promoters dream, the Qatar match isn’t. That’s really all I was saying. As for Iraq CR… I just find it hard to get worked up over that one. I almost find myself supporting them with the pathetic allegiance was showed to the Americans in shattering their country. But that’s me, and you’re right, other people might find that a legitimate country to enjoy beating.
Midfielder said | June 7th 2009 @ 11:59am | Report comment
Sheek
Thanks for your post on the media
Captain Random said | June 7th 2009 @ 9:42pm | Report comment
Dan -
“I just find it hard to get worked up over that one.”
You apparently find it hard to get worked up over a lot of things, but point taken.
Greg said | June 9th 2009 @ 3:28pm | Report comment
Is Pim wearing a pair of black RM’s in the photo with this article?