The figures you cite are worthless. They might be accurate, or they might not, but we have no idea because they do not cite any source.

The 2007 Rugby World Cup Final was the fourth most-watched sporting event in the world in 2007. That (in your words) is “the reality”. It was beaten by one soccer event, one Gridiron match, and one athletics event.

Even if you can get some reliable break-up figures for the RWC2007 Final television audience, then don’t get excited – without comparable break-up of the figures from other codes, they will be meaningless. All they will tell us is what we know already: Soccer is the code with widest worldwide distribution. Rugby comes next – a long way behind soccer, but way ahead of the other codes. To some people that is important, to others it isn’t, but either way the situation is not in doubt.

Here’s the reality:
http://www.puttingrugbyfirst.com/executive_summary.php
“…Television audience data for the 2007 World Cup final, between South Africa and England, shows that 97% of the 33 million total viewers came from the Foundation Unions – with just half a million viewers of the final spread amongst all the remaining nations where it was shown live. There are 115 members of the IRB – but rugby is evidently not particularly popular in most of them…”

http://www.southafrica.info/about/sport/features/sa-cricket-201106.htm

“…..according to the 2006 BMI Junior Sporttrack survey, which ranks sports, and sportsmen and women, for their popularity among South Africans between the ages of 13 and 18.

According to the survey, cricket is the only sport in the country to feature in the top three most popular across all race groups. …….”

check out all the non-white players who played for the proteas last year

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa_national_cricket_team

Why don’t they pay reparations?

Using lots of words does nothing for your “argument”. You wrote:

“Yet we get the bleating that rl poached run players for years and this is revenge”
No, you argue against straw men. The comment made by myself and others is that Rugby League in Australia has no right to whinge or bleat. We are not arguing that “this is revenge”. You have been misrepresenting others’ position from the start of this thread, which is why your posts, for all their numerous words, are mostly irrelevant.

“France is the same country whose sport of ru ,paid players and poached rl players during the amateur years.”
Yes, you have written this many times. My question remains the same: How does this give Rugby League in Australia a right to whinge about losing Sonny Bill Williams?

“The same country’s ru officials during the occupation years, lobbied the occupation govt to have rl banned and assets seized and handed over to the FFR in 1946.They have never been handed back ,nor any recompense made. It hasn’t been resolved in 2009AD.”
[No, I am sorry, this does not even amount to the ghost of a credible argument. Because of some alleged events in another country 60 years ago, you now want to make that the primary issue over the poaching of a single Australian Rugby League player in 2009? Get over yourself

“Bringing up sport in wartime Germany (when the whole country either supported the then Nazis or if they didn’t kept quiet or ended up in prison ),and does not involve trying to kill off another sport by collusion with an occupation govt ,as a comparison, is ludicrous.”
No, its exactly what you did with some obscure episode in French sporting history from the 1940s. Please spare us the artificial outrage.

“It is the basic fact which cannot be denied,that some in power in ru had close ties with Vichy,and used that power to kill of rl.”
That is the totality of your argument? That is IT?? Please stop wasting our time

SBW is encouraged by 3rd parties(insert ru coach Umaga as one example) to leave(poached) before his contract was up, to play for Toulon in France.Not Australia but France,despite him playing for an Australian rl club.Yet we get the bleating that rl poached run players for years and this is revenge .
France is the same country whose sport of ru ,paid players and poached rl players during the amateur years.
The same country’s ru officials during the occupation years,lobbied the occupation govt to have rl banned and assets seized and handed over to the FFR in 1946.They have never been handed back ,nor any recompense made. It hasn’t been resolved in 2009AD.
Being an upstanding citizen one assumes you would be on the side of justice or do you support theft after a 60 year hiatus? That is where the current tainting lies.
Bringing up sport in wartime Germany (when the whole country either supported the then Nazis or if they didn’t kept quiet or ended up in prison ),and does not involve trying to kill off another sport by collusion with an occupation govt ,as a comparison, is ludicrous.
Soccer did not try to kill off another sport in Germany..

When Russia occupied Germany did the soccer authorities try to kill off another sport by sucking up to the Russians?.

I accept and know many many people in France detested and fought the Vichy govt,including many ru people.It is the basic fact which cannot be denied,that some in power in ru had close ties with Vichy,and used that power to kill of rl.It is an irrefutable fact. the French govt in 2002 stated so.

I have cited examples of ru trying to either kill off or hamper rl in countries.
Here is another involving the former great French ru coach Fouroux inSept16 1995(when he was involved in rugby league).He was involved in setting up a regional rl comp played in summer.The final was to be played at the Stade de la Me’diterrane’e,Beziers and a verbal agreement had been made with the town mayor.Two weeks before the final ,the authority decided they could not host the match.Top ru officials had been in contact with the mayor’s office,making it clear that the staging of a league match in Beziers was “unacceptable”.
They (the municipal authority let it be known that if it went ahead an all Blacks tour match scheduled for the same stadium in november of that year,and possible other high level matches,might end up being played elsewhere.
In spite of the agreement in principle with Fouroux ,and despite the fact that part of the stadium hire charge would benefit junior union in the town,the mayor’s office surrendered to the union bullies’ demands.

The trouble is I spent the best part of my teenage years following and playing ru( enjoy tests against the ABS),and was led to believe the stories of the proud amateur tradion of the code,and its history.Yes I knew of the Wallabies who did Australia proud, by refusing to play the Boks during the apartheid era. Had a close relative thrown into the back of a paddy waggon,during the anti -apartheid Bok tours of Oz.
Well publicised,not so the other unsporting ,and anti social acts,elsehere.

Whilst my dissertation may not be to your predeliction,I suggest the following:
I can only please one person per day.
Today is not your day.
Tomorrow is not looking good either.

I know youve got a top anecdote about someone’s grandpa

but the last test side in 1970, before South Arica were kicked out of international cricket, contained no Afrikaners’

BA Richards

EJ Barlow

A Bacher

RG Pollock

BL Irvine

DT Lindsay

HR Lance

MJ Procter

PM Pollock

PHJ Trimborn

AJ Traicos

Im not sure the vast majority of the German population supported the Nazis, in 1933 when they took power, they got less than 50% of the vote and needed to form a coalition with the Zentrum and other parties to get into power.

Your post is barely coherent. As I wrote above, using your methodology, soccer would be forever tainted as a Nazi sport, simply because soccer officials in Germany in the 1930s worked together with the Nazis. This is all rubbish. Your rantings about various episodes in Occupied France have no relevance to anything on this thread.

Try a little sporting history,fact not conspiracy theories(the usual get out clause used).
Conspiracy theories,really .A sport gets stabbed in the back by the lobbying of another(union)with an occupation govt,and it was shown to be the case by a Govt commissionConspiracy correct by the FRU officials to kill off rl..
A sport rl in Italy has its player insurance denied by the Italian govt ,due to lobbying due to Italian ru lobbying.That is a conspiracy theory?
Now let us throw in good old South Africa.
Suggest we look at the year1964 and a “lovely” gent by the name of Danie Craven the powerful president of the SARU, who ensured rugby league was banned through his contacts within the SA govt.The ban was inflicted because the rl players received money for every match played and were branded as :traitors’ for receiving money for services rendered.The ban was branded as unconstitutional and officially lifted during 1996(funny the year union became openly pro).No discrimination against any sport in Sth Africa is now tolerated.

Of course we know union officialdom wouldn’t do such things,its all a conspiracy theory, some yell from their ivory towers.
Fortunately in the last two years the SARL has had a growth rate of more than 300%,the game is now played in 7 provinces with more than 40 clubs.
BTW I have litlle trouble getting out the front door of a morning.Appears others try the back door.

MVDave, that is entirely my point, i.e. you have put your finger on the very reason why attempts to argue that a particular code is tainted by association with apartheid are doomed to failure.

Soccer is not known for an association with apartheid, but only because whites by and large didn’t play it – no other reason. If they had, it is inevitable that soccer in South Africa would also have compromised with apartheid.

I could similarly argue that Rugby (both codes) is not tainted by association with Nazism – of course it wasn’t, but only because the Nazis couldn’t care less about it. Lacrosse and Curling are in a similar position.

Name a sport in Germany in the 1930s that didnt support the Nazi regime? The German people (vast majority) supported the Nazis.
Same cant be said for SA and Apartheid which the vast majority of the population didnt support. The minority sports of Cricket and Rugby were promoted and flourished which cannot be said about football. The sucesses of the Rugby and Cricket teams have come at the expense of the SA football team.

Well said.

This is why I didn’t bother responding to Crosscoder’s attempts to make an argument out of nothing, regarding Rugby in France during the Vichy period. Using his methodology (if it deserves the name), soccer would be forever tainted as a “Nazi” sport! The whole argument is immature and illogical.

Getting back to what this thread is about, the important thing is that Rugby Union is a world code with a strong following and that the market for players is worldwide. Since there is a high degree of portability between the two rugby codes, it follows that if Australian clubs (in any code) do not treat their players with respect, they can expect them to easily find lucrative employment elsewhere. This applies whether it is SBW or Gasnier moving to Rugby, or young Du Plessis going to League. Good on them.

I know. I actually know several Black South Africans who played during the Apartheid years. They played in a all Black League. I was just trying to get any actual solid reason why the apartheid era would adversely effect Rugby 7′s chances of getting into the Olympics. Hell look at the SA 7′s team there are only about 2 or 3 Whites in the entire squad. The coach is a ‘coloured’.

WCR- the myth that only Afrikaaners were playing rugby is exactly that, there was always a fair number of coloureds and blacks playing rugby in South Africa since rugby was introduced there, indeed the Afrikaaners only got involved in rugby during the Boer War.

Whilst Rugby was played in various guises during the 1980s (i.e. Cavalier tours) so were many other sports, including South African swimmers littering US universities etc.

Rugby today in South Africa is no different to any other sport. There are ongoing efforts to develop systems that provide opportunities for all members of society. However this is as much a socio-economic problem as it is a sports development issue. Rugby 7s at the Olympics would be great for South Africa, and especially the PDA members of society.

I fail to see why Rugby would be deemed to have “skeletons in its closet”. CC seems to be entrenched in conspiracy theories….goodness knows how he gets out the front door in the morning. Big Brother is watching you CC!

I enjoyed the poetry AA.

Let’s not forget that South African Cricket was and still are subject to the quota system. As is Rugby. However Rugby has embraced the African population to a greater extent. And are currently working toward entering an all African team from the Eastern Cape into the Super 15. It won’t happen this time round as they are applying for entry into the australian conference. But there is talk of a further expansion in 2013 where they will enter the south African conference.