If we both keep trying I’m sure one of us will think of someone who has changed from FR to BR!

I think it is great that JoC is excited, and gets the fans excited. That is one of the great things about sport: it brings enjoyment.
Cheer up OJ, your Mr Jockey will be back in his strap soon!

Regarding shifts from the front to back row, I have strained my mind and can’t think of any. Ross Ford, John Hayes, William Servat, Andrew Sheridan, TPN, Steve Thompson have all made the shift from 2nd/back row to test level front row. Incidentally, Steve Thompson did take a quick sabbatical as a flanker a few seasons ago, and Phil Greening occasionally played on the flank. In fact, there are two young England ‘A’ (I refuse to use the name ‘English Saxons’) hookers have played a lot of back row for their clubs: Neil Briggs at Sale Sharks, and Rob Webber at London Wasps. Beyond that I think it would be unworkable at test level.

I suddenly have this burning desire to see the Wallabies get smashed.

Notice that with Giteau-Barnes-O’Connor I am not talking about anything experimental. Just ask the Italians. As Knives Out has pointed out, take these three away and ” then the majority of Australian fans might be wondering what on earth is going on with their team.”

Actually, this assessment by KO is a little harsh. On Saturday night Italy basically played the football equivalent of putting 11 men behind the ball. Australia has never been a team like NZ that can murder teams with such a defensive mindset. The BaaBaas were much more open, and I thought the Wallabies did a very reasonable job of putting points on them.

In any sport one should play to one’s strengths. What Australia’s two matches so far have confirmed is that Australia’s biggest positive point of difference with all other teams in world rugby will be the Giteau-Barnes-O’Connor axis, which has the potential to be in rugby what Thurston (approximately Giteau), Lockyer (Barnes) and Slater (O’Connor) are in rugby league. (If one really wanted to push this analogy to the limit, one could assign George Smith the role of his namesake Cameron in league.)

Those who read my comments know that I don’t try to hide my ignorance of NH rugby, so I will not attempt to pass judgement on the number of players of the quality and type of Giteau, Barnes and O’Connor in the NH (I very much doubt there are many). However I do watch a lot of SH rugby, and when one stops to think about it, there are very few players of the quality and type of these Australian “little men” (to borrow a rugby league term) at the top level in NZ and SAf. I mean, take out Dan Carter, and what else is there? Don’t get me wrong, players like Ma’a Nonu, Morne Steyn, Stephen Donald, Luke McAlister, Wynand Oliver and so on all have their strengths (in some cases considerable, e.g. Nonu, in other cases exaggerated, in my opinion). But the point is that none of these players shine in the way that Giteau, Barnes and O’Connor do.

It seems logical that Australia should produce rugby players who are like rugby league playmakers, just as it is logical that NZ and SAf do not (remembering here that NZ’s strength in league has rarely been in positions 1,6 and 9). I am convinced that if the present Wallabies are to become a great team, then Giteau-Barnes-O’Connor will be the point of difference that makes them so. I think Deans knows this too, as reflected in his fast-tracking of O’Connor.

None of this is to put down players like G Smith, S Moore, S Mortlock, R Elsom, Horwill, and so on. They are all excellent players. But the point is that one finds similarly excellent players in other countries (McCaw, Burger, Botha, etc.). If I look around, what I do not see is many other countries with any players of the particular type of excellence of Giteau, Barnes and O’Connor, let alone three such players in one place.

One also notes how these three complement each other, just as do Thurston, Lockyer and Slater.

(I will now sit back and watch for this point to be misinterpreted … I am not saying that Australia’s “little men” will definitely make them no. 1, I am not saying that South Africa and NZ do not have some areas of strength over Australia, and so on.)

I wondered whether this was just Spiro’s wildcard comment to stimulate reaction, but all I can find is Worlds Biggest writing

“I have mentioned previously on the Roar that TPN should be looked at as a backrower in particular No 8. He played Australian Schoolboys at Number 8. Imagine TPN, Smith and Elsom backrow.”

He would have to undergo a major and very difficult change in body shape to play BR. Further, my impression is that BR-FR traffic is all one-way, e.g. Richard Harry and Steve Thompson both went from BR to FR. Similarly, a good idea often aired at The Roar (but too late to act on) is that Phil Waugh should change to hooker. Does anyone know of any reverse traffic at the top level?

Moore is the most accurate thrower in world rugby, so he’s a tough standard to judge TPN on when the latter enters the fray.

If anything play TPN as a lineout lifter and see if one of the props can throw the ball in.

You’re not wrong.

I hope Cooper goes well but, if he doesn’t, I’d like to see he and O’Connor swap. Or AAC on at fullback and JOC to 12.

C’mon The Roar! Post the article so we can comment on it!

Barnes at 10, Quade at 12, Cross 13, Hynes 11. Kimlin 6, Mumm 5, Pek 1, TPN running on. Pocock 7, Smith captain from 8.

He is the reason why I think O’connor should get his education from 15. Both 12 and 15 are acknowledged as good positions for future 10’s to learn from. If you pushed O’connor up to 12, we’d be back searching for a decent 15 again. I think any time we can have O’connor, Barnes and Gits on the field is happy days! The one thing we do need to acknowledge though, is that these boys, whilst brave tacklers, are not massive. So when we select 11, 13 and 14 we need to make sure we are getting some boofheads. Mortlock is superb for this. Digby would also be great (thats if he doesn’t flee for the filthy lucre.)

Even since he made it back into the team he has markedly been more involved and his error rate feel a lot lower than it used to be. I’d love to see him bust the first tackle but he usually doesn’t.

Just wanted to say that Barnes is one of the best players we have, he’s intelligent, great hands & feet, he could probably tackle a steamroller, and is a fantatic foil for giteau.

I have decided once and for all to put this mindless debate regarding the abilities of Nathan Sharpe to rest by writing the authoritative tome which will be titled something like “Mary McKillop or Nathan Sharpe – who will be touched by the hand of God first.”

I can almost hear the keyboards of the Sharpie haters bashing away in anticipation. Watch this space.

When Sharpey was dropped I just accepted that age had caught up with him, his day had finally arrived & their were better players coming through. Let’s face it, he looked tired. There was absolutely no leg drive & his presence seagulling out on the backline I thought was more about catching his breath than busting the defensive line. He’s a bit too slow for that & besides back then anyways he was constantly dropping the pill.

When he was back in following Vicks departure I figured it was because of his lineout ability & leadership. That’s it.

Against the Baa Baas & Italy I’ve not noticed him seagulling or dropping the ball. So that’s good. BUT……..where I’m expecting (or should that be hoping) him to really get up a head of steam, deliver punishing runs and bust a few tackles, he seems content to just look for the turf. Perhaps he thinks he’s really fast & is concerned at getting too far ahead of his support?

Not sure what gives but you’d have to think that a bloke that size could make more meters. Wouldn’t you? Annnnnd an occassional off load to keep the opposition on their toes would make a nice change. As it is all the opp has to do is show up and he starts to lower like a crane on a building site.

Hey what do I know?

Also Sharpe does not work hard consistently. I have had stats where he did hardly anything but seagull. Remember he was dropped and saved when Vickerman left for O/S.

Also he does not do the hard yards up the middle. Look at the game again the runs through the heavy traffic around the ruck were by the frontrow and in other games Horwill. Sharpe was out wider running into backs in channel 3, no not hard yards up the middle.

Yes he is good in the lineout.

We need to blood or find a better player for the world cup. At Sharpes age he is just getting poorer and slower year by year.

Brown has been totally ineffective against opposition weaker than S14, the pace is below S14.

Yes I wanted Mumm because Sharpe is non effective, I would rather it get it wrong trying to improve the team than accept mediocrity.

Sharpe goes straight down when he hits the line and places the ball back, yes, but so what. He hardly ever breaks tackles or hits them hard. How can these hit ups be outstanding? They are soft. He also hardly ever offloads the ball.His tackles also are just adequate, he does not hit them hard. However he did have a high work rate last game.

Sorry guys I am picking off comments as I catch up on Spiros article. I hope I have something more constructive to add later (probably not).

My perception of the test is that had an 18 year old not scored a hat trick then the majority of Australian fans might be wondering what on earth is going on with their team, and how the Wallabies did not manage more against perhaps the worst attacking and defending side I have seen in years.

The Wallabies defence against the rolling maul was excellent, however the scrum was subsiding badly from the 50th minute onwards. I think it’s admirable that the kickers persisted in peppering the corners. That was intelligent rugby, but I wonder if a NH team had been so lacking in dazzle would they be considered in terms different to the Wallabies?

I agree re Mumm, he was invisible. I still prefer Kimlin over Sharpe. Sharpe still has a habit of seagulling out wide and stuffs up the flow of the backline, but he did work harder last game than I remember from him for a long time.

Some of them are pretty damning arent they? Horwill, Brown and Mumm are well down on what they should be. Mumms are deadset laughable.

Sharpe may not have averaged much per run but he was going in tight up against the big defence in close. Only Moore made a LB in the forwards showed we lacked other ball runners. Need Rocky back ASAP.

What the fark was Mumm doing out there? They must be a record for worst stats ever from a 6! And I am surprised he had that many involvements he was invisible.

He did work hard but it had little impact. He made a lot of runs BUT not 1 line break, his average metres was poor. He made a lot of tackles as well.

PLAYER STATS
Australia Pos Tack Off load Kicks Try Assist Line Brk Ruck Maul Mtrs Runs Turn Over Missed Tack
Benn Robinson LHP 8 0 0 0 0 6 11m 6 0 2
Stephen Moore HOOK 9 0 0 0 1 4 34m 4 0 0
Alastair Baxter THP 5 1 0 0 0 4 10m 5 0 1
James Horwill LCK1 9 1 0 0 0 1 11m 2 0 0
Nathan Sharpe LCK2 8 0 0 0 0 12 49m 12 2 0
Dean Mumm BSFL 2 0 0 0 0 0 0m 0 0 4
George Smith OSFL 10 2 0 0 0 7 33m 9 3 0
Richard Brown NUM8 7 1 0 0 0 3 9m 4 0 0
Luke Burgess HB 5 2 1 0 1 6 34m 7 2 4
Matt Giteau FIV8 5 1 15 1 0 2 37m 4 0 5
Drew Mitchell LWNG 2 0 3 0 0 3 15m 3 1 1
Berrick Barnes ICEN 3 3 6 0 1 2 54m 4 0 0
Stirling Mortlock OCEN 1 0 1 0 2 3 48m 4 1 0
Lachlan Turner RWNG 1 0 2 1 1 2 51m 5 2 0
James O’Connor FBCK 3 0 8 0 1 2 43m 5 1 1
Tatafu Polota-Nau RHKR 2 0 0 0 0 0 8m 1 2 1
Ben Alexander RPRP 2 0 0 0 0 0 0m 0 0 0
Peter Kimlin RLCK 4 0 0 0 0 1 7m 1 0 2
David Pocock RFL 5 0 0 0 0 1 0m 1 0 0
Josh Valentine RHB 0 0 0 0 0 0 0m 0 0 0
Quade Cooper RBCK 0 0 0 0 0 0 0m 0 0 0
Adam Ashley-Cooper RES1 1 1 0 0 0 3 47m 4