By Rich_daddy -
June 16th 2009 @ 12:01am
Loading ...Will AFL and NRL take a backseat to World Cup?
Germany coach Jurgen Klinsmann, right, celebrates with forward Miroslav Klose at the end of the World Cup, Group A soccer match between Germany and Poland, at the Dortmund stadium, Germany, Wednesday, June 14, 2006. Germany won 1-0. The other teams in Group A are Ecuador and Costa Rica. AP Photo/Murad Sezer
The “official” launch of Australia’s bid for the 2018 or 2022 Football World Cup occurred last Sunday. In being considered for hosts, a range of logistical factors will be taken into consideration.
If Australia was successful in its bid, a major logistical challenge would be how the AFL and NRL seasons could be altered to accommodate the World Cup.
The World Cup would have to be held during in the off season of the northern hemisphere club competitions, so June or July. I really can’t see Australia being able to change this. Nor would they would want to rock the boat, anyway.
Therefore, the World Cup would occur for one month right in the middle of the NRL and AFL season. This eliminates the option the AFL used in the year 2000 when they moved the season forward by three weeks to accommodate for the Olympics.
So that leaves two remaining options.
The first is that the competitions play as normal, concurrently with the World Cup. I really can’t see that happening.
I don’t believe there would be enough stadiums to go around, and the television and media coverage of all three competitions would be adversely affected.
So the only other option I can see is to simply put the NRL and AFL on hiatus during the tournament. It seems a reasonable solution, after all, it would be an incredible opportunity to have Australia host the World Cup and probably a once in a lifetime one.
So perhaps the AFL and NRL would be willing to do this.
However, this option throws up some conundrums.
For instance, will the grand finals still be played in September? If they are, both competitionss would have to start a month early as well as taking a break for a month.
Not exactly ideal.
Alternatively, the grand finals could be played in October. Plausible, but would this upset some traditionalists?
It may not be an issue, but I think the FFA needs to take this into consideration in its bid.
IF FIFA can see the potential for conflict between the codes, then it could jeopardise Australia’s chances of hosting the greatest show on earth.
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(211)
tifosi said | June 16th 2009 @ 7:25am | Report comment
This will be one of the sticking points no doubt.
The other football codes have said they will support the bid.
My main concern is the state of the playing surfaces. If rugby/league/AFL are played right up to the tournament then it will be an issue.
You would think that the other codes will keep going i guess. AFL could still be played at gabba scg subiaco football park and telstra dome, League can play at the smaller venues. State of origin would have to be played at a different time though.
However if FIFA said that they wouldnt support an australian bid unless the other codes had to stop for 5 weeks or so, the state govts have already said that the world cup would take precedence over the local competitions.
True Tah said | June 16th 2009 @ 8:17am | Report comment
I think both the AFL and NRL will take a backseat to the world cup without doubt.
Chop said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:01am | Report comment
I don’t think there’s any doubt that the other codes would make other arrangements for the World Cup.
Luke W said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:20am | Report comment
I don’t think the other codes would risk the negative publicity of interfering with the World Cup.
Redb said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:22am | Report comment
The AFL have already stated they support the bid.
Redb
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:24am | Report comment
Speaking on behalf of the AFL, a bit of contingency planning is already well advanced (and at this point, it is nothing more than a low probability high impact risk some 13 years out).
The AFL will definitely make alternative plans, but I don’t actually see why their season would be impacted to any great degree. They would have full access to the Dome for the whole of the WC, along with Geelong’s home ground, and by then one other Melbourne AFL venue would be up and running (probably the present Princes Park).
On top of that they’d have all the present AFL venues in Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, Gold Coast and Sydney fully availalbe (along with part time AFL venues like Manuka and Launceston, by that time, probably more developed as proper AFL venues).
So I don’t actually see an issue here at all.
As for the suggestion that the AFL take a break of 6 to 8 weeks in the middle of the year, and play their grand final in October, let us all be clear:
1. The grand final has been played in late September for over 110 years (with the exception of two replayed grand finals); and
2. The WC might be big, it might be huge, it might stop the whole world in its tracks, but not even the second coming of Christ would interupt the AFL season.
Towser said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:38am | Report comment
. FIFA requirements are set in stone. Seems to me there is a massive underestimation in many articles & statements of Ben Buckley’s role in World Cup bid logistics. Wouldnt be suprised if one of the reasons Frank Lowy hired him was his connections in sport,particularly with the AFL, in view to a future World Cup bid. I would be suprised if AFL/NRL considerations are not already done & dusted.
Lets face it how dumb would it be to launch a World cup bid unless you had all the angles at home sorted. Nothing we can do about FIFA politics only hope that Frank Lowy can use his substantial powers of persuasion on the right people over the next year or so.
Redb said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:39am | Report comment
Pip,
Spot on. The AFL does not need to react to anything at this stage. Let the steam dissipate and see what substance emerges.
Redb
oikee said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:57am | Report comment
On behalf of the NRL we welcome with open arms the bid. Up-graded grounds for our code will benifit league for the next 50 years. Thank you in advance world soccer. 60 thousand at suncorp state of origin is a blessing. Yes NRL are right behind this bid. 4 weeks out of our comp for having all our grounds up-graded at no cost for our game is a god send. Cheers to soccer.
thinker said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:10am | Report comment
When you take into accout the fifa regs about stadium usage before the World Cup (wich is about a month of non use prior to the cup),the handegg codes will just have to make due or cancil their seasons.
Redb said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:26am | Report comment
thinker,
Yours is exactly the attitude that will polarise fans. The AFL is the big dog in the south of the country, the other codes get to play the under-dog card against the big bad AFL, try putting AFL fans noses out of joint with a holier than thou attitude in Melbourne and see what happens.
Your comments play into the AFL’s hands and make primarily AFL fans such as myself start to resent the WC bid. You can pick on AFL as the governing body as much as like, pick on my club and treat it with disdain and you’ll find out just how popular our game is in Melbourne.
You better face up to this, Australia can’t make the bid work without strong Melbourne support. II wouldn’t be surprised if Melbourne gets the final to keep the Vic Govt happy (and its constituents) and thus do a deal with the AFL.
Redb
Robbos said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:31am | Report comment
Pip,
Well put, I totally agree, if & when Australia gets the world cup, the football codes should all work together to ensure that Australia puts on a good show, which I hope will also allow the sport followers of the world to experience some of our sports not known to them.
The Football World cup, should not begin the battle of the codes. Whether we host or play in it.
Like I said many times I don’t follow Basketball, but am a avid fan when we play in Olympics. I’m not a big into bike racing, but I will cheer on the Aussies especially Cadel during the Tour de France.
Some sporting events are big enough to pull in the neutrals.
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:44am | Report comment
Thinker
you ain’t got you’re thinking hat on.
1. FIFA regs have zero impact on grounds controlled by the AFL (FIFA is similar to the UN in that it has a large membership, but it is corrupt as all hell and has little legislative power – if you don’t understand what I mean by that, I am happy to explain further).
2. If you think a Sherrin is shaped like an egg, I suggest you go and do some remedial maths.
The Bear said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:58am | Report comment
How many newspapers could be sold by putting World Cup news on the back page (with quality reporting, mind) throughout those 15 days in June?? Yep, our Aussie winter codes may indeed take a “back” seat, to where some of these papers usually keep Football articles, deeper in the sheets. Other than that, it will be business as usual (kind of).
thinker said | June 16th 2009 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
@redb and pip a deal with teh AFL lol wut as the afl has found out with ACDC they aint going to get a f-ing choice in the matter
AndrewM said | June 16th 2009 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
Hey Oikee haha yes you can thank football for that.. I suppose as a football supporter we have to thank RL for the fantastic grounds that the A-League currently uses.
Some of the stadia we have in this country is better than most teams in the EPL and after WC I would think most teams would have home grounds of 40+
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
Thinker
try proclaiming that in Melbourne and see how far you get.
Bugger all Melburnians come to the Roar, this is why silly little pronouncements like yours can almost sound like gospel.
The WC will have minimal effect on the AFL (it might mean not having access to the MCG for around 6 to 8 weeks) – otherwise, there is no other effect as AFL grounds will not be used by the WC.
But I repeat for your benefit – not even the 2nd coming of Christ would interrupt the AFL season.
Tom said | June 16th 2009 @ 12:42pm | Report comment
Pip, I think you’re being a little naive.
The World Cup will have to have priority for training grounds, transportation, services and infrastructure. The country will be accommodating hundreds of thousands of tourists using hotels, airfares and other services. It would be incredibly hard for the AFL and NRL to work around that for the month that its on.
I think it would be sensible for them to take a hiatus during that time. The AFL already has a split round. Just cancel the pre-season cup and start the proper season three weeks early.
thinker said | June 16th 2009 @ 12:42pm | Report comment
pip that is no silly little pronouncement
your last post just shows how much you are in denial you are
“The WC will have minimal effect on the AFL (it might mean not having access to the etihad stadium and the MCG for around 6 to 8 weeks) – otherwise, there is no other effect as AFL grounds will not be used by the WC except they are in use as training bases for world cup teams.”
just fixing up your statement for you
Captain Nemo said | June 16th 2009 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
“But I repeat for your benefit – not even the 2nd coming of Christ would interrupt the AFL season.”
so pip, i was right, you guys are more fanatacical than evangelists!!!
Michael C said | June 16th 2009 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
TheBear -
you’d almost run in each city an MX style daily WC paper. 16 pages or so of purely WC stuff.
But, yep, it’d be interesting, would the regular dailies, should the AFL and NRL seasons be continuing as normal – would they just insert a separate sports section and a separate WC sports section?
Millster said | June 16th 2009 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
Pippu – ?????????? re “bugger all Melbournians” ?????????
Not specific to this comment, but based on the 18+ months and hundreds of threads I’ve participated in, I feel quite the opposite about this site. My own view (not criticism just view) is that there is a VERY strong Melbourne flavour to most debates and a lot of times I find myself struggling to understand the starting points for many comments just due to this.
Again that is not a criticism just a perspective.
The Bear said | June 16th 2009 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
MC, personally I don’t care…but, yes, the punter, including our sport loving guests, may prefer a “liftout”, true. But this “liftout” will probably be as hefty as a standard paper, lol. BTW, I wonder who will be the lucky so and so’s who get the newspaper sponsorship?? The terrorgraph may have it’s work cut out if they miss out in the tender process… oh, so many “sokka riot” stories to manufacture and all night brawls to write. They WILL be busy!! Soooo very busy in the courts, too, shortly thereafter defending defamation case after libel case, and so forth…
Redb said | June 16th 2009 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
Millster,
There are very Melbourne based posters on the Roar.
Redb
Michael C said | June 16th 2009 @ 1:05pm | Report comment
The impact or otherwise on NRL and AFL presumably will come down to which stadiums are tied up exclusively and which training venues are tied up exclusively.
I guess it’s the ‘exclusivity’ that’ll be the issue.
Australia is so unique in this regard. Holding the WC in the US was nothing, sure, they have the NFL and Collegiate football etc – but, it’s generally 1 team cities. Here, we have 2 x Rugby codes and the AFL. We have Sydney and Melbourne which BOTH hold a major concentration of major teams in separate major codes/leagues. No where else in the world can you get the FIFA WC overlaying such a non-soccer football landscape.
I’d be seriously surprised if both the NRL and AFL would accept a 6 week duration of WC exclusion AS WELL AS a 4 week lead up exclusion. You can’t knock 10 weeks out of the year.
FIFA may have regulations set in stone – - but, that may get tested. It’ll be interesting to see.
Redb said | June 16th 2009 @ 1:05pm | Report comment
The Bear,
You make the fatal mistake that every match of the World Cup will mean something to native Sydneysiders or Melbournians. Most will care about Australia, in fact 14 of the 16 pages will be devoted to Australia, certainly in the leadup rounds.
Futbol fans will wish to dissect every nuance of every game, the rest of us won’t.
Redb
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
The word is that the FFA and AFL have already agree that the MCG would be available for the WC, along with the new rectangular stadium – and that the AFL would have complete use of the Dome, which makes sense to me.
I repeat, not even the second coming of Christ would interrupt the AFL season.
I’m struggling to understand why people don’t understand that??
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 1:21pm | Report comment
Millster
this is a very Sydney-centric forum, which is why we have people declaring that FIFA regs would mean that the AFL would automatically drop their dacks.
They will eventually drop their dacks, perhaps half way – but not as readily as some are thinking, and not without a bit of horse trading.
Afterall, any multi-million dollar business will rightly demand recompense if their source of revenue is threatened – how is it that people have trouble understanding that from just a purely commercial perspective?
At the end of the day, it’s all about the dollars.
The Bear said | June 16th 2009 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
Redb, 32 teams with MANY (think of a big number and times it by 10) fans visiting Australia for the month … how will they get to read about their team pre and post game? There will be an army of traveling journo’s and photographers, freelancing and on contract to papers of the world… how can this sports section or “liftout” be anything other than huge?
Redb said | June 16th 2009 @ 1:41pm | Report comment
The Bear,
I would imagine there will be a massive website that will handle most of the game reports, stats, twitter, etc.
Redb
Michael C said | June 16th 2009 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
Pippinu -
AFL is one thing, soccer folk don’t like ovals.
What about the NRL??
What would be left available to them and how early or late would the SoO have to be played and for how long would the ARU be unable to hold a ‘home’ Wallabies match (other than mid week at Docklands?? or Subi??).
Has the AFL got a ‘priority’ contract at the SCG? and the Gabba? Would the NRL be fine on their small grounds anyway? Would the Broncos seek to play the odd game at the Gabba?? (could they get the grass long enough??)
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
The Bear
Just talking about Melbourne, but if Collingwood is top four at that point in time, you can bet Collingwood will get triple the coverage (at least), of what, say, Uzbekistan will get in the sports section (no disrespect to Uzbekistan, who are one of my favourite Asian NTs – despite a very disappointing WC campaign thus far).
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
MC
are there are other games played in Winter??
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
redb is spot one – why the hell are we even talking about sports lift outs??!! we’ll get all the sports info we want by then through the chip implanted in our eyeballs!!
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 2:05pm | Report comment
Actally, I now realise that one of my posts above was incorrect.
Collingwood could be 3rd from bottom and still get quadruple the coverage (at least), of what, say, Uzbekistan will get in the sports section (no disrespect to Uzbekistan, who are one of my favourite Asian NTs – despite a very disappointing WC campaign thus far).
But if they’re bottom at the time – not even the 2nd coming of Christ would get more media coverage!!
Now to bring some reality back to our day, this is a conversation from down town Melbourne in the year 2022, during the WC being hosted successfully by Australia. The two men are in adjoining rooms, but as is now the custom of the day, they speak to each other via 3D holograms.
Bloke A: Have you heard about the 2nd coming of Christ?
Bloke B: Fair dinkum?
Bloke A: And what about Collingwood being on the bottom?
Bloke B: (if he’s a pies supporter): [expletive}, [expletive], bull shit!!!
(if he’s not): F@rk’n great isn’t it??!! by the way, how’s Uzbekistan going….
Towser said | June 16th 2009 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
Pippinu
Hot or cold chip? Gimme a cold anytime.
The Bear said | June 16th 2009 @ 2:12pm | Report comment
Sporting liftouts? Well, it’s a reasonable queery. Will other codes take a back seat in relation to the sporting press, Pip, Collingwood or no Collingwood, Uzbekestan or no Uzbekestan. Say what we like about the internet (and internet cafe’s for those visiting guests through out a WC), but many (those without chips implanted) still like to see black on white, on paper. I know it’s old fashioned, but some of these Euro types especially are so very old fashioned. I will concede tho, Redb, the Asian finalists will be using their iPhones or whatever to the maximum effeciency. The World Cup Daily will roll on…
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
Bear
internet cafes??
that’s so passe – daaaaarling!!!!
The Bear said | June 16th 2009 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
Let’s call these Internet Cafes, “fan zones”, then…
Robbos said | June 16th 2009 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
Redb,
I’d have to disagree with you there, 14 of the 16 pages will not be on the socceroos. While I agree with you that Poland v Peru will struggle to get much in the way of media print. But you are kidding yourself that the likes of Greece or Italy will not capture the imagination of the Melbourne public. Teams like Brazil & England, with all their stars will capture the imagination of the whole nation.
Even the smaller nations may contain a superstar like Portugal (Ronaldo) or Ivory Coast (Drogba) which which attrach the media & the crowds and you will amaze how some of the smaller locations like Tasmania may pick up an underdog side like Trinidad & Tabago or Ghana.
I still recall how WC2002 in Japan / Korea where the following was huge up in Sydney because of the timezone & the Socceroos was not involved.
GeneralAshnak said | June 16th 2009 @ 2:36pm | Report comment
I have to support Pips on this one, and I do not support the AFL at all. The World Cup will not cause the AFL season to be altered. For goodness sake they will have at least 8 years from when we know if we are hosting the World Cup to get the fixtures etc right. The dick comparing that some ‘fans’ from both sides engage in is mystifying to me. Grow up and start engaging in an intelligent and articulate exchange of ideas and opinions. Purely attacking someone or posting a comment to get a rise out of people has got to be the most infantile, and more importantly wasteful, activity I can imagine. The AFL & NRL and the WC will all be able to take place simultaneously if the AFL & NRL so desire. If they do not wish to compromise their crowd numbers with another competition then they may alter their schedule of fixtures. But I repeat, they will have 8 years minimum to decide what to do.
The Bear said | June 16th 2009 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
Robbos, do not discount the Europeans. Everyone can read english, it’s practically their first language. They will want press and photos… over their morning espressos, of course lol .
Tom said | June 16th 2009 @ 2:50pm | Report comment
That seemed like an unnecessarily aggressive post by Ashnak.
Is a four week hiatus that big a deal? I would have thought it would have been in the AFL’s interest not to directly compete with soccer at the one time soccer may get more coverage.
They can maximise media, TV and attendance by shifting their season slightly. Why would they risk their profitability by going head to head with the world cup?
Michael C said | June 16th 2009 @ 3:01pm | Report comment
Tom -
a decent spattering of AFL matches through that period would be interesting, I recall watching the 2008 Olympic soccer, and at times it was so underwhelming that it was such a relief be able to escape it and watch some highly contested and far higher intensity footy …………….. or not if Adelaide were playing their ruddy soccer style possession game.
THere’s still a potential boon for the AFL to expose itself to a whole new audience in Australia seeking an Australian experience, such as a pie and beer at the footy watching a game without fences………………
…….that’s one thing, will the WC grounds require the erection of whopping big fences and have fans segragated and enter and leave at different gates and different times?? (or just if Croatia happen to be playing Serbia??). [I can say that without it being overly racists or whatever, as, we've had the issues at the Aust Open tennis to justify such a concern.]
GeneralAshnak said | June 16th 2009 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
I was not directing my comment at anyone in particular Tom, but some people just have to keep saying “my sport is bigger than your sport!” as the justification for their opinion.
The 4 weeks aren’t a big deal and if they want to shift their competitions they will do so. But no one can honestly be saying that they are going to have to have to do it.
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 3:13pm | Report comment
The General is the voice of reason, and it’s a bit far-fetched to claim he is being aggressive!! (anthing but, I would have thought).
The FFA and AFL appear well down the road in terms of negotiations (recalling the Bucks and Demi are still on first name terms, and probably catch up for a latte every now and then).
The WC can have the MCG and the AFL will keep the Dome – and that seems a pretty decent compromise for all concerned.
But all this talk about FIFA demanding that the Government demand that the AFL shut up shop for 8 weeks – honestly – you’d have to have shit for brains to believe that that would happen.
Redb said | June 16th 2009 @ 3:14pm | Report comment
Tom,
Profitability won’t be a problem as the Fed Govt will owe the AFL quite a tidy sum for not being able to use the MCG for 8 weeks in the middle of the AFL season.
Futbol will get massive coverage and so it should for a world cup on home soil, but to think it will drown out the AFL fans who don’t care about it outside the Socceroos is wrong. Even with reduced AFL crowds, Etihad will suffice for the thousands of fans who will still follow their club. You assume the event will be all consuming.
The European travelling fans will soak up a lot tickets, the average Melbournian or Sydneysider (who isnt a futbol fan) but likes an event will take in a match or two if they can get tickets for sure.
AFL support in Melbourne is like a pyramid.
At the top are the code warriors, footy fanatics and those who care about growing Australian Rules football. They will be reluctant for the AFL to give up any oxygen and will fight for the AFL’s rights. Read widely about AFL footy.
The next layer are the sports fans who love their AFL footy, like other sports, particularly futbol, go to events, have the cash to be a theatre goer and support their AFL club but are not maniacial about it. Read widely about most sports.
The bottom layer and by far the biggest are the fans of AFL football clubs that have little interest in other sports, read only about their footy team, follow it as ‘their’ team to the point of blind faith. Think religion. They are the Catholics who dont care the Muslims are coming to town, it’s foreign and means nothing to them (outside of Australian teams). Many are not even sports fans, they are club fans.
These layers are fluid to a point.
Redb
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 3:14pm | Report comment
The last time the Government tried to tell the AFL to do something they all walked out of the room with their tail between their legs.
Captain Random said | June 16th 2009 @ 3:18pm | Report comment
I’m thinking that anyone who thinks that the AFL will shut down for eight weeks cannot possibly be from Victoria.
Michael C said | June 16th 2009 @ 3:31pm | Report comment
further to what Pips said, Ben Buckley and Andrew Demetriou are former North Melb teammates (1986-87), as well as latter day boss and 2IC at the AFL. It’d be hard to imagine that the two of them wouldn’t seek to ensure mutually beneficial paths are exhausted first……
….that said, loyalty is paid for, and Ian Collins, as a former AFL employee is a fine example that the two roles of former work associate and current professional ‘combatants’ can be kept entirely separate (or, perhaps cut for good!!).
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
Captain Random
exactly – Eeezactly!!!
Robbos
all opinions are gleefully accepted on the Roar.
GeneralAshnak said | June 16th 2009 @ 3:41pm | Report comment
Michael just have a look at the World Cup in Germany to see that there was not much of a issue with regard to violence. Australia is in a very strong situation with regard to hooligans, most of them are known to their various governing bodies and immigration can be provided with a list. Those on the list don;t get visas. Pretty simple and effective.
Robbos said | June 16th 2009 @ 3:46pm | Report comment
True Pip, I must have more patience with fools, this is a free society & even they have the right to an opinion
whiskeymac said | June 16th 2009 @ 3:48pm | Report comment
General Ashnak, i concur. hard to get here and in numbers when no one wants you to.
Even the dreaded englanders didnt have an issue with violence when they held the 96 euro Championship…. even when they lost to Germany in ze dreaded shoot out. (there was of course the vulgar chanting of 2 world wars and one world cup, plus some unsavoury backpages by the sun but that’s par of the course over there…doo dah doo dah)
Michael C said | June 16th 2009 @ 3:51pm | Report comment
Robbos -
since my first reply to you seems to not be acceptable (which beggars belief as to why you comment is to start with),
then let me point you towards the reply of GeneralAshnak – - learn a lesson!
btw – in 2006 we had two 3 yr olds and a new born – - as if I was going to sit through the ungodly hours to watch soccer from Germany even if I wanted to.
Art Sapphire said | June 16th 2009 @ 3:53pm | Report comment
AFL Communique: 2021 –
The AFL have decided to go ahead and play the 2022 season as normal.
The World “Soccer” Cup which Australia is hosting in 2022 will not interfere with the scheduling of matches.
This will be achieved by playing games in their spiritual homes. The suburban footy ground.
Windy Hill, Western Oval, Victoria Park, etc. etc.
There will be no money spent on ground improvements. We repeat, no money spent on ground impovements as the money is
being spent expanding the game in the new, fertile markets of Mongolia, Bhutan, Gabon and Tadjikistan.
Due to the lack of seating at these grounds, the sale of beer cans will be re-introduced to enable kids to watch the games just like their parents and grandparents did in times of yore.
End Communique
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 3:58pm | Report comment
Art
thank goodness you have an eye for the time honoured traditions of the game!!
Michael C said | June 16th 2009 @ 4:11pm | Report comment
Art and Pip -
just a minor technical point that needs to be confirmed -
they WILL be STEEL beer cans – - – won’t they???
Finno said | June 16th 2009 @ 4:31pm | Report comment
I thought the FFA bid video ‘Come Play’ was awesome. Perhaps our football isnt up to scratch but man can we shoot a good promo clip. If thier is any problem with the AFL you will probably see a good $ incentive to move or a little bit of cross promotion to get people to watch a bit of Aussie Rules
As far as violence is concerned nib it in the bud if you wanna start chucking chairs about do it in England not here.
My favourite chant is the Dutch chant to the Germans
Geef aan mij mijn grootvaders fietsen terug
basically it means ‘gives me my grandfathers bike back’, after all the Germans ran away from the allies so the Germans grabbed any piece of transport they could.
GeneralAshnak said | June 16th 2009 @ 4:37pm | Report comment
ROFL at that chant! One of my mates is of a Dutch background and he always brings that up – must be a collective wound on their psyche!
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 4:39pm | Report comment
That Dutch chant is a beauty – love it!!
GeneralAshnak said | June 16th 2009 @ 4:41pm | Report comment
Ahh I had a newborn in 2006 as well, poor mite found it hard to sleep through the night forcing me to stay up and look after him so my wife could get some much needed rest – it just happened that the TV was on at the same time! If I was going to miss sleep watching the World Cup I may do something useful at the same time……. wait that came out wrong, of course I meant that as long as I was up looking after my son I should do something useful and watch the World Cup…… wait…. I give up…
Michael C said | June 16th 2009 @ 4:45pm | Report comment
GeneralAshnak -
we’d tried that for the first two, and had Foxtel in those days and the cricket from OS (might’ve even been a world cup cricket tourney – heck, I can’t remember anymore – - just kidlet induced brain fog).
By 2006, any desire to push it for that dual purpose was well an truely balanced by the closer to home realities of the impact of sleep depravation.
And so here we are, 3 kids and no foxtel.
If I’d known that’d be the equation………
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 5:03pm | Report comment
General
I’ve run into plenty of blokes on blogs with a similar tale to tell about 2006!
Tom said | June 16th 2009 @ 5:05pm | Report comment
Redb, I don’t at all assume it’ll be all-consuming. I assume it’ll be partially consuming. As opposed to when its not on, when its not at all-consuming. And the latter time is when the AFL can the most money holding games.
Art Sapphire said | June 16th 2009 @ 5:08pm | Report comment
Yes Michael C – they will be commemorative steel cans produced by CUB, especially reinforced for the obese kids of today
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 5:10pm | Report comment
MC
3 kids? so you followed Peter Costello’s advice?
I didn’t think Danes were Catholics!!
GeneralAshnak said | June 16th 2009 @ 5:11pm | Report comment
Ah that was the beauty of the World Cup, coverage by SBS
Same with 2010, FTA all the way! The 2014 I am not so sure about though, and after 2013 the Socceroos will be back on the anti syphoning list so should be on FTA as well. I am lacking Fox as well – building a new house (hand over is soon, fingers crossed!) so may get it once we are in.
I am not surprised Pips, not at all!
Millster said | June 16th 2009 @ 5:28pm | Report comment
Pip – MC needs a fourth, and then there will be one for each code
Michael C said | June 16th 2009 @ 6:03pm | Report comment
Pip -
ah yep, based our decision making entirely upon Mr. Costello,…..well, not quite, but, felt not guilty at all about recieving any form of family oriented ‘welfare’ (middle class or not) as we could of course justify ourselves as having followed his advice.
Millster -
will that be the Rudd/Swan platform, 3rd is for the country (figuratively), and 4th is ACTUALLY for the country, to be traded as a carbon offset for the first 3 and used by the country as the country wishes…..
Tifosi said | June 16th 2009 @ 7:20pm | Report comment
That dutch chant is so funny !!!
General Ashnak – the 2014 world cup is on SBS. Thats already locked in.
At USA 94. The Major League Baseball Season didnt stop to accommodate the World Cup, granted they dont share stadiums anyway.
It will be interesting to know FIFA’s position on this. They cant stop any other league from playing but it could be a big point of contention. Other bidders would point out that they wont have this sort of problem.
sheek said | June 16th 2009 @ 8:10pm | Report comment
Firstly,
I think we should wait to see If Australia wins the right to host either the 2018 or 2022 WC. It’s a massive ask. We fluked the 2000 Olympics, can we fluke the FIFA World Cup?
I say “fluked” because like FIFA, the IOC was horribly corrupt, & it’s no small miracle Sydney won hosting rights. Is there the possibility of another ‘Tiananman Square’ to help assist delivery of the WC to Australia?
Secondly,
If we get it, I have no doubt as many respondents have argued, both the AFL & NRL will assist. This is after all, the most popular football code in the world, & both the AFL & NRL know they have fans who love their code as well as soccer. They simply wouldn’t be silly enough to invite mass criticism.
Thirdly,
And getting back to stadia, Australia does have a problem right now providing sufficient stadia, although that might no longer be a problem by 2022. Perth & Adelaide appear to be the problem children at the moment.
Gee, I would love for Australia to get the WC, but aren’t we getting ahead of ourselves here?
Dan said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:07pm | Report comment
It would be interesting if Australia got a WC, not so much in how it would impact the other codes, but how the government would respond to the influx of global fans. I still remember when the Japanese, fearful of the notoriously thuggish English soccer fans, took the precaution to lay sealant on the stones around prominent railway tracks and had special forces on standby to “deal with” aggressive fans. I still remember the footage of this freaky Japanese dude braking like 6 wooden blocks decked out in English fan gear lol. I really think they released a lot of that to simply send a message out saying “don’t f#ck with us” to the undesirables… to be fair the English soccer boys have learnt to kill each other away from stadia now though from what I’ve heard.
tifosi said | June 16th 2009 @ 10:21pm | Report comment
Gee, could imagine how many poms would come here if they qualified?If the pound stays two to one with the aussie dollar we would be swarming with them !!!!
Sheek, im looking so far ahead that i want to see the battle for who gets the final, Melbourne or Sydney !!!
The daily telegraph has this funny (and biased as they point out) comparison between the two cities!!
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/gallery/0,22056,5024549-5010140,00.html
jimbo said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:07pm | Report comment
The FIFA World Cup Bid Selection Committee’s report will make fascinating reading around the world, when it reports that we lost the World Cup bid because Collingwood were playing the Western Bulldogs at the MCG and the Rabbitohs were up against the Knights at Stadium Australia.
I’m sure the visiting football dignitaries who are here for the official WC Bid are also really impressed with the way our media, and News Limited in particular, are celebrating our qualification for another World Cup and hailing our national coach Pimbo Verbeek and our star midfielder Tim Cahill in this weeks press reports.
Kurt said | June 17th 2009 @ 12:23am | Report comment
The really odd thing about this argument is that for years the socceristas have been telling us that our little local games are impossibly small and exist in the shadow of the vast edifice that is global soccer. But apparently now the great and glorious world cup, so impossibly huge an event that mere mortals can barely look directly at it for fear of being blinded by its magnificence actually isn’t in a position to compete directly with local sporting competitions! Even if the AFL agrees to vacate the MCG it would still apparently constitute an existential threat to the world cup and needs to be shut down completely. Weird.
Spencer said | June 17th 2009 @ 1:13am | Report comment
What is the point of this thread? It is clear that Australia will not be awarded the Soccer World Cup. Nor should it! Soccer is neglected, denigrated and humiliated in Australia. It would be a crime to let it come to a country of heathen disbelievers!
The great game of soccer shall only be played in countries that can understand the beauty of spending 90 minutes without seeing either team score a point, and the majesty of grown men writhing in pain after breaking a finger nail (or accidentally having a rather long nose hair extracted). Vive le FIFA!!
MVDave said | June 17th 2009 @ 7:15am | Report comment
Kurt
Your pain is showing. Dont worry you only have another 18 months to go of this talk of maybe….oh and then 8-12 years of planning for the biggest event in the sporting world to hit our shores. Hey an idea why dont you just stay where you are for the next 15 years then you wont have to worry and stress about football getting the headlines in little ol Oz.
Spencer
Yeah l would much prefer to see grown men stick their heads up each others a@#%s!
Kurt said | June 17th 2009 @ 7:22am | Report comment
Actually Dave I’m feeling pretty chuffed right now. Who would have thought that our little game of AFL could be such a threat to FIFA that they need to ban us from playing or watching it lest their blessed world cup be harmed in some way. It’s quite a laugh!
Robbos said | June 17th 2009 @ 7:56am | Report comment
Kurt, you got it right, AFL is a little game between 2 suburian teams in a relatively unknown city.
Cpaaa said | June 17th 2009 @ 8:00am | Report comment
I still try to understand Melbournians, and in particular when it comes to sport.
“ We are Australias greatest sporting City!
80,000people between 2 suburban clubs
Rain, hail or shine we will be there.
Melbourne loves sport”
Yet when it comes to world football there are actually people that are shiting their pants. WHY?
Why is it so hard for a small part of Melbourne to except the worlds greatest sporting prize ?
Sounds like sporting racism to me.
Kurt “Who would have thought that our little game of AFL could be such a threat to FIFA”… your ego is far too inflated.
md said | June 17th 2009 @ 8:02am | Report comment
This is an interesting article with some great comments. Ultimately, it will all come down to compromises and money from the government (in the national interest of course). The NRL, in Sydney needs to get its clubs out of the big stadiums – particularly Telstra and re-connect not only with the suburbs that the teams come from but more so the expansion suburbs that form part of Sydney’s great plan to merge with Perth by 2199 (which will incidentally become Perth’s new postcode) and be the world’s only transcontinental city (because that will really put us on the map – particularly at New Years Eve). The game is built on a tribalism which the NRL is only just re-discovering. So, in return for some refurbishment of suburban stadiums purportedly to “host” games during the world cup, the entire NRL will stand aside for the WC in Sydney. It will help that those stadiums will be in Western Sydney where governments of both stripes love to spend money (don’t be surprised is there is a Hills stadium in the offing) Those teams closer to New Zealand than Perth will play at the SCG, along with the Swannies.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they re-instate Telstra to its Olympic capacity to host the final either – I’m sure the drawings are still lying around somewhere. I know Melbourne wants to host the final, but it won’t happen whilst Frank is alive.
The AFL situation is even easier. The AFL is crying out for its own ground in Melbourne with a 30 – 40K ish capacity. That will be its price of the World Cup. Knowing the AFL, it will probably ask for 2 stadiums. The government will only pay for one, but allow the second to be financed by a cartel involving 4 union heavies named Mick and some essential services tycoon (undoubtedly ex bankrupt “made good”, who will be president of a football club, Flemington race course and most importantly a generous donor to the Arts, which of course purges all sins), which will be negotiated in the stands of the MCG at 3 quarter time during a Demons v Carlton match.
Brisbane is a little more interesting, but they are pretty well conditioned up there by 30 years of being a police state, and don’t often like to question their governments, particularly when there is an opportunity for some tourism or for Queensland to appear on telly. So the Broncos and Cowboys will do whatever they are told. And like it. Won’t you? Hmmm? Yes? Yes. Good.
It all comes down to bucks and infrastructure doesn’t it. Luckily, these are all very very easy decisions for pollys – even in a recession.
Cheers
md
Robbos said | June 17th 2009 @ 8:31am | Report comment
Cpaaa, you are on the money there.
It’s this look at me, look at me sort of attitude, I’m a big city.
Look I have int’l tennis, int’l motor racing (4wheels & 2), our footy codes draws the most crowds, look at me, look at me, I’m better than Sydney. I don’t see the likes of Kurt providing a viable study on the economic advantages of holding these events in Melbourne. Why? Is it because the tennis & motor racing events are no threat to their ‘little game’ of AFL?
Now we have the opportunity to bring the WORLD CUP, the world’s greatest sporting event (remembering Melbourne is the sporting capital of the world) to Australia, they are shitting bricks.
Again Why? Because now it’s not the A-League that AFL is up against, which currently the AFL has covered & can push around, this is the WORLD CUP.
Redb said | June 17th 2009 @ 8:53am | Report comment
Quite the tirade Robbos.
Remember the tennis, GP, Melb Cup,etc are no threat because they are not stopping AFL being played for potentially up to 8 weeks. Pretty big difference don’t you think?
I wonder if the situation was reversed and we were talking about the EPL being put out to pasture in the middle of its season for a sporting event in another sport, how would that go down? Until you walk in the shoes you can’t possibly understand.
Redb
Millster said | June 17th 2009 @ 8:59am | Report comment
I have a conclusion. And it is one that I make with affection for Melbourne so its not a nasty one (in fact I’m flying down there in just a couple of hours to go see the Aust-Japan game, and am most looking forward to being in that city for a while).
But I do think that Melbourne has an inferiority complex. I do agree that it pushes pushes pushes to prove itself against the supposed ‘foe’ / ‘competitor’ / whatever that is Sydney. As such I also think Cpaaa and Robbos are on target.
Funny thing is that while the Sydney-Melbourne rivalry was something I heard about when I grew up in Perth, in reality now that I’ve lived for a number of years in Sydney I don’t think its true. Sydneysiders hold Melbourne in a lot of affection actually, and we regularly travel down there, talk about the place in glowing terms, etc. I have never sensed a feeling of rivalry from this side. We Sydneysiders are a confident lot but quite frankly I don’t think we even see a competition with the southern city. Its not part of our mindset as we just don’t have that feeling of inferiority.
So bottom line is there’s only one side in this fictitious fight.
PS to Kurt – thanks for the laughs, your writing is hilarious!
Tom said | June 17th 2009 @ 9:19am | Report comment
Who’s shitting bricks?
Jesus people write some bullshit on these threads.
I repeat: this is really unlikely to be an issue. The AFL and the NRL will almost certainly go on hiatus or, probably more likely, reduce the number of games during that month. Maybe a couple of split rounds.
And not because anyone would need to force them. Because its in their commercial interest.
Stop using these non-issues as an excuse to write offensive remarks about other sporting codes and other cities! Kurt, cpaaa and Spencer (amongst others), do you even realise how juvenile you’re being?
Pippinu said | June 17th 2009 @ 9:29am | Report comment
Kurt’s posts are quite funny, and as a Melburnian, I see where he’s coming from.
On the one hand, we have a worthless, unknown, tiny, crappy, local, surburban footy comp played at the arse end of the world, as we jostle with the rest of the universe for a cut of the holiest of cakes.
But then we are advised that all AFL fans will need to be locked in their homes for 2 months in case they upset the apple cart and bring dishonour to the world game.
It is all rather peculiar.
I’m sure the WC can stand on its own two feet, even if the Dome is busting at the seams watching a clash between two unknown inner-city rivals. I think the World game can cope with 50,000 people watching another game within a kilometer of two WC venues.
Bloody hell, a couple of thousand touriest might even get a look at one of the weirdest games ever invented, and go home happy that they saw a bit of Australia – the real Australia.
Robbos said | June 17th 2009 @ 9:36am | Report comment
I have every confidence that the FFA, FIFA, ARU, NRL & AFL will all work together & have respect for each other’s sport & work out what is best for everyone.
As a sports lover, I love int’l events coming to Australia so i can see the best in their sport.
I loved the Olympics, I loved the Rugby World cup, I had a great week in Melbourne last year & went to tennis for 2 days. I’d love to go down to watch Tiger play in Melbourne.
So what I don’t understand, all these negative postings from other sports fans about the possibility of Australia getting the Greatest sporting event in the world.
This is something I struggle with. Instead of rejocing at such a possibility from a national point of view, some media & some bloggers are very negative, likewise with us qualifying for the world’s greatest event, again mixed reactions, I just don’t understand.
Koala Bear said | June 17th 2009 @ 10:14am | Report comment
Well the Grooky fanatics come to the fore once again grunting and frothing at the mouth.. When you lads first heard the news that Frank Lowy’s dream of staging the FIFA world Cup on Australian soil.. The immediate response was “ No, no, not ever … Grooky will never allow such a thing.. Not in a Grooky town, especially during the winter season ever” … Then a bit of softening when the Government showed its commitment, with both sides of the house (well “the softening” that’s not quite true) in staging the biggest sporting event on the planet… Then we had “OK it will work providing “adequate *%#8 compensation” .. Then as soon as someone suggests that the Grooky season will need to be suspended for a measly four weeks … all Hell breaks out again ..
I have to admit I was one also saying that the other codes could still run along side the FIFA WC .. However, I have come to realise that would not be possible and have changed my mind about that…
It would be irresponsible, a travesty, to go down that path… The greatest shown on earth will need the best Australia can provide in stadia and media coverage; a total commitment to the biggest Football show on earth .. Gawd we can’t have the Melb Herald running Ben Cousin type stories whilst the greatest Football show on earth is on our shores; it will make us look like a bunch of small time insular myopic hicks.. Instead of the highly sophisticated, multicultural, nation we are…
For a mere 4 week break of the other codes’ season in which the other 2 rectangle codes have no problem with; for only miserly four weeks for a reward of adequate compensation.. The rewards will be enormous for them; in terms of infrastructure … But can they see the benefits of new state-of-the-art refurbishments or new multi-purpose built stadia at the Federal Government’s expense? No, no, no, we still have some ignoramuses crying foul in the wind …
Let me be absolutely clear on this … Andrew Demitriou and Ben Buckley will come to an amicable agreement to suit both sides of their codes … to allow the greatest Football show on earth to go ahead with little to no interruption.. A small break in the Grooky season with an early start to the their season, then a mid season recession, with a conclusion of an extra 2 or 3 weeks to draw close to the Grooky season with its finals some time later at the end.. What is the big deal..?
~~~~~~~~
KB
BigAl said | June 17th 2009 @ 10:53am | Report comment
I would expect this would all be handled in the same way as the Olympics.
But honestly – you’d have to ask me again within 10 years of it actually happening !
Cpaaa said | June 17th 2009 @ 10:57am | Report comment
Tom, what is juve and offensive with what ive said.
Ill admit that I wasn’t too interested in the lead up to the sydney olympics, but never did I think that it wasn’t great for the country. Once the opening cermony began, I was hooked, and I enjoyed every aspect of the Olympics. The Football WC is different, where all of Australia will share the event. Unlike the GP, F1, Olympics, Tennis, Commonwealth games, you following yet?
So my point was directed to a minority that insist that we should not host the Worlds Greatest Sporting Event.
So a 4 week event at least 9,maybe 13years away is already causing a stir about AFL “to be or not to be” fixtures, this is CRAZY and insecure to say the least.
jimbo said | June 17th 2009 @ 11:04am | Report comment
Spencer,
thanks for joining the discussion and regurgitating 19th century “Soccer” stereotypes.
Very enlightening.
Redb said | June 17th 2009 @ 11:25am | Report comment
cpaaa,
you said: “So my point was directed to a minority that insist that we should not host the Worlds Greatest Sporting Event.”
That is an insecure statement, no-one has said we should not bid for the event.
KB,
Changed your mind about otehr events being staged at the same time? why? The WC will earn its media coverage which I expect to be massive, why do other sporting events needs to be shut down.
History shows us that big international events are only accessible to a relatively small population of locals, the WC tourist caravan is huge , what will be left for those who can’t go to games. I repeat outside of obviously the Socceroos (let’s hope they make it), England, Italy, Greece and the opportunity for a theatre goer to check out Brazil, most of the prelim rounds will not be of that much interest to local non futbol fans.
We can still soak up the atmosphere at Fed Square, take in a WC game or two and still go to an AFL match. In Melbourne, the MCG, Bubble stadium, sporting precinct around Rod Laver through to Fed Square will be a huge WC zone. Etihad and probably Princes Park will host AFL games on the other side of the city.
Apologies to Robbos, but Melbourne can do this on its head we have the stadiums within walking distance of the CBD and a transport system than works like the spokes of a wheel.
Redb
Michael C said | June 17th 2009 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
Robbos -
the negative postings in the main relate to
A. the disruption
B. the finances
Now, if you lived in Melbourne, the F1GP has been questioned repeatedly over the years for
A. the disruption
B. the finances,
and Tiger at the golf has been question for
A. the finances
and the C’wealth games were questioned for
A. the disruption
B. the finances,
I’m sure in Sydney the Olympics were in part questioned.
It’s not a full on attack.
It’s healthy,
and necessary to run a balanced and sustainable event.
What’s the issue? This thread is particularly angled at the ‘disruption’ aspect. And it DOES need to be discussed.
Many aspects of major events have negative impacts upon broad sectors whilst having a narrower spectrum of CLEAR benefit – i.e. major hotels, airlines, ticket booking agencies. We need to be careful to not fatally undermine the permanent fixtures/structures for the benefit of a travelling roadshow that passes through once in a lifetime. It requires a balance.
AndrewM said | June 17th 2009 @ 12:24pm | Report comment
I think the NRL and AFL can run ok during this time. The AFL will have the most to lose as they will have to play out of smaller grounds. All of the big venues would be in lock down 1 month before to prepare the pitch and 1 month during the WC.
The NRL mostly play out of suburban grounds, and fans actually prefer belmore to Telstra Stadium.
I think the best approach would be to run limited games during the WC maybe 1 round every 2 weeks to keep the punters coming through the gates and changing the game times to not conflict with any of the big WC matches.
Closing down for 8 weeks effectively suicidal for AFL as those fans will get bored and take up an interest in the WC festivities.
AndrewM said | June 17th 2009 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
Jimbo yeah Spencer’s rant is quite amusing considering his name would go down quite well in Oxford st. If he thinks Football is for girls im suprised he isn’t a fan!!
Michael C said | June 17th 2009 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
md -
40K last week for a dead rubber in Sydney, let’s see what Melbourne puts on for a dead rubber tonight. True though, Sir Frank who is driving this thing want’s desperately 2018 (he might still be alive), and the final in Sydney (as, he may be too frail to fly/travel too far).
robbos -
the look at me sentiment you claim about Melbourne is all too easily able to be extrapolated to Australia
and hosting things like the Olympics
(given most of the biggest domestic sports, AFL, NRL, RU, Cricket, the nags, motor racing, surfing aren’t even Olympic events) smells of an international Australian ‘look at me’ effort.
Now, the soccer world cup,
a game that’s biggest by far in one state; and domestically is thus far blighted by a chequered history of mediocrity (or worse – as stated by many soccer supporters) – - this smells severely of an international Australian ‘look at me’ effort – and an over blown sense of self importance given that the Socceroos have now managed to qualify for the 3rd time ever.
Look at me, look at me,………
(and that’s not saying that we can’t do it, shouldn’t do it, and wouldn’t do it well – - – but, presently, it looks pretty ‘try hard’ and smells of severe inferiority complex by those who just hate that Australia isn’t just like everybody else – - i.e. a soccer monoculture.)
Pippinu said | June 17th 2009 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
AndrewM
The AFL will be without the MCG for about 8 weeks – it will continue to use the Dome – that is pretty much the deal the FFA and the AFL have already made (the new bubble dome being built will probably have a capacity of around 45,000 by 2022, the other Dome won’t be needed for the WC).
No other AFL ground will be affected.
There is zero issue here.
Others are trying to make out that there is an issue – there’s none; none whatsoever (as long as someone compensates the AFL many millions of dollars for not having use of the MCG for 8 weeks in the middle of their season: 8 x 100,000 x $31.25 = $25 mill, it’s chicken feed in the context of billions of dollars of economic benefits).
But I have responded to people who think the AFL would have to close down because FIFA regs mandate it (as if they somehow have legislative powers in Australia).
All I can say is that not even the 2nd coming of Christ would interrupt an AFL season.
Robbos said | June 17th 2009 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
The AFL has said they will support Australia’s bid for world cup, end of story.
Towser said | June 17th 2009 @ 1:55pm | Report comment
Pippinu said :-
“All I can say is that not even the 2nd coming of Christ would interrupt an AFL season”
The second coming of John Lennon would.
DogsOfWar said | June 17th 2009 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
AndrewM said “The NRL mostly play out of suburban grounds, and fans actually prefer belmore to Telstra Stadium.”
As a Dogs supporter I can say I don’t prefer Belmore to ANZ Stadium. Belmore is a run down facility which in it’s last years was just a hot spot for trouble and crappy facilities. Now the fans are used to ANZ, it will take going back to crappy facilities to realise how good they have it.
Midfielder said | June 17th 2009 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
HMmmmmmmmmmmmm I wonder who else … the Stones… Elvis… JOK… Gough ….
Michael C said | June 17th 2009 @ 2:00pm | Report comment
Robbos -
in saying that the AFL has generally stressed having not seen or heard any detail, but, having an in principle support.
sounds as cosy as the relationship with Docklands management.
Redb said | June 17th 2009 @ 2:05pm | Report comment
Mid,
Clearly ACDC doesn’t cut it.
Redb
Towser said | June 17th 2009 @ 2:24pm | Report comment
If Elvis came back he would be bigger than the MCG by now.
Pippinu said | June 17th 2009 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
Towser
Koala Bear said | June 17th 2009 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
Redb,
But seriously as you have told us so often that the Grooky lads are also Football fanatics, as well as following their favourite Grooky team..
why would Grooky want to be willingly embarrassed
As we are yet to know the groups and venues; you simply may be a Melburnian of Italian or Greek heritage having to fly to Sydney or Brisbane to watch your team, then to return to watch Collingwood or Carlton, whoever … This could be financially problematic for the not so cashed up Football tragic…
As FIFA are so transparent in that everything they do comes from a marble picked out of a fish bowl.. Who can say for sure where teams play or end up … It’s not like the contrived Grooky draws with draft picks etc , etc…
Btw… The question of the second coming of Jesus … This may have already occurred… The thing that Jesus and Frank have in common is, both are Jews … God bless them both…
~~~~~~~
KB
md said | June 17th 2009 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
MC – that’s because it was an overpriced dead rubber against an obscure Emirate slightly smaller than the Sutherland Shire, and generally there were more interesting things to do in Sydney – even on a Wednesday night. It’s great that 70K from Melbourne will turn up to see the Japs. Pretty sure 70K would have turned up to see the Japs in Sydney too.
But, someone (might as well be me) needs to tell Melbourne that it’s not grade school, where you get the prize if you sit up straightest and call teacher “Miss” all the time… The winner will be Sydney.
Cheers
md
Foob said | June 17th 2009 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
In regards to AFL being ‘The real Australia’
Thats completely racist. Maybe insert the word Bogan in there.
Pippinu said | June 17th 2009 @ 2:56pm | Report comment
Foob
you have misquoted me – completely.
To have a silly sign on name is one thing – but please have the courtesy of quoting me directly, or at a minimum, putting what I said in its proper context.
Being Sicilian, I know as much about racism as you do, probably more.
md said | June 17th 2009 @ 3:00pm | Report comment
Yeah Pip – you Sicilians are notorious for it aren’t you
Cheers
md
Lazza said | June 17th 2009 @ 3:04pm | Report comment
Leave Pippinu alone. He loves his AFL and deserves credit for supporting the ‘Doggies’ but at least he knows what he’s talking about when it comes to Football.
If most AFL and NRL fans did the same we wouldn’t have so many arguments on these boards.
Pippinu said | June 17th 2009 @ 3:12pm | Report comment
Lazza
I’m more catholic than your average Catholic!!
Redb said | June 17th 2009 @ 3:24pm | Report comment
The only time Pip’s not friendly is when you eye off his four’n'twenty – teeth like brush cutters and a Sicilian stare that would melt a fruit bat.
Redb
Pippinu said | June 17th 2009 @ 3:40pm | Report comment
…or if I have to buy beers once the play has started!!
Redb said | June 17th 2009 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
you would have been happier if the Bullies were behind.
Cpaaa said | June 17th 2009 @ 3:46pm | Report comment
Everybody relax Jesus is coming.
He will be in Melbourne tonight (of all places),and will sacrifice his body for goals.
He will play beautiful football, and there isnt an A.Rules match in sight.
there you go Pip, now do you believe ?
Amen
Eamonn said | June 17th 2009 @ 3:47pm | Report comment
Ronaldo to take on Buddy Franklin..right now I’ve got you MC let’s get into it.
Everybody got your anti-sokkah stuff out of the way, yes MC, it’s okay one more otuburst and then lets move on.
Look to the benefits for the nation and sign up and support the bid.
Do your Aussie bit, or would you rather see the English ram it down our Aussie throats forever:) http://www.australia2018-2022.com.au
And I’m sure there are a million ways you can showcase the AFL to the World during the World Cup, and why not put your energies into that rather running scared.
Invite the Brazilian team to watch St Kilda v Collingwood….get Ronaldinho to challenge Ben Cousins to a game of juggling with either ball…could be fun if you joined the party, instead of sitting at home with your music turned up…
got any other ideas….this could be fun.
Lazza said | June 17th 2009 @ 3:49pm | Report comment
I’m going out with a Sicilian, theyre not all bad! Had to check the family background before things got too serious.
Blonde hair and blue eyes as well – not sure how she got those features.
Pippinu said | June 17th 2009 @ 3:55pm | Report comment
Cpaa
I’m a believer.
But I’m not sure if our very own 2m Jesus is Dukes’ natural successor.
Eamonn
The Motlop challenge would be a beauty (and a few would be able to give it shake I’m sure):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvUjDBSXGyE
Pippinu said | June 17th 2009 @ 3:57pm | Report comment
Lazza
it’s far more common than people think.
Speaking of being Catholic, I don’t want to offend anyone, but generally Sicilians prefer hours of root canal treament to actually attending mass.
I blame my father.
He had an aversion to taking the Eucharist that was akin to Linda Blair’s aversion to holy water.
Eamonn said | June 17th 2009 @ 5:36pm | Report comment
Good one Pippinu: Is that Motlop stuff exceptional or could most AFL players do it. Seems to me if you are kicking a ball all day long you should be pretty skilled at that sort of thing.
I’m still amazed when the AFL guys miss from the side, the front…cos they mark it and just have to kick it with no opposition pressuring them. I know there is a crowd etc but it’s very odd to me, when they score people treat it, sometimes, like it’s awesome but there’s no-one in front of you..for a pro player it looks too easy..
Motlop could triple his income if he played football like that…is he any good when he plays a game in reality?
And Pippinu who are the two or three most skilful players with the ball in the AFL comp,maybe I should watch them, you’ve got me interested now….I’ve never watched a whole game but my team the Sainters are top, unbeaten. Coz we all have a team don’t we!
Pippinu said | June 17th 2009 @ 6:07pm | Report comment
Eamonn
thanks for the interest and the questions.
Can I say that this business of bouncing the ball on a curve has been known by most players for a very long time (and I think Daicos may have done it occasionally in the 80s), but it has become endemic in the last 6 or so years, especially amongst the indigenous players (and the indigenous players generally have this sort of skill level over and above the norm – it’s a dangerous thing to say, but I think most aussie rules fans would agree).
For instance, someone once mentioned on a soccer blog (and it was a football fan) that he had seen vision of the ex-Brisbane player, Daryl White, run around an oval doing keeping ups with a Sherrin.
Is it normal for AFL players to be able to do that? I’ve never seen it at semi-professional level, but I can’t really speak about what the norm is at AFL level – as you would appreciate – if you’re playing soccer at an amateur level, you are going to view the skills of the world’s best players at a level far surpassing your own (which is totally natural), and likewise, AFL players are going to have a skill level far surpassing the amateur player.
Back to Motlop – many amateur players might be able to do the curving the ball along the ground trick just mucking around on the park – but it’s another question as to whether they can do it in real game situations – you know yourself – it’s two completely different situations. Countless kids are on morning shows doing keeping ups for hours on end – but how many of them end up with professional contracts?
AS for the little trick of flicking it over the shoulder and whacking it on the fly, from the boundary line – I”ll be honest – I doubt I would have been able to do that in a million years – that one is absolutely out of this world, and I doubt many AFL players can do it (although I imagine they’re all practicing it right now!!).
As for the snap from over the fence, such that you are actually behind the goals (so have to curve it a long way – I’d probably be able to do that one maybe once in 20 attempts, even now in my late 40s – but that’s only because I grew up spending hour after hour doing snaps from the boundary.
In relation to scoring goals from set shots, you are right that that’s a source of frustration for even dyed in the wool fans – but can’t it be compared to taking a penalty kick?
If you or I are facing each other down the park – we’re going to kick 19 out of 20 spot kicks against each other, right? But you’re in a real game, and the future of the universe depends on your kick – what do your legs feel like? They’ve probably turned to jelly!
Now, many people think they can kick a sherrin through the big sticks from 50 metres – the truth is that most of them can’t do it, not even come close.
The other consideration is that the TV camera rarely does justice to:
1. the distance involved; and most importantly
2. the angle involved – the beauty of the Motlop footage is that you can see the angle – and to steer a ball through the sticks from an angle from 40 metres is tricky at even the professional level (let alone the amateur level).
Finally, personally I always get amazed that people think it’s easy to run flat chat with the ball, bouncing it every 10 metres, and then to kick it on the run and hit someone on the chest who might be 60 metres away, while someone is on your hammer – I just don’t get that thinking at all.
I’m in no way saying that these skills are difficult to pick up, or that they’re harder than any other sport, but I am saying there is often a gap between what people think about the skills and the reality (for those from a non-AFL background) – and of course, the same applies in relation to soccer (and all other games for that matter)
mahony said | June 17th 2009 @ 6:30pm | Report comment
Pip – we do understand your “2nd comming” statement – we just see it for the wishfull rhetoric that it is. And I say this as a ‘Melburnian’ who is about to leave for the Japan game at the MCG along with half the people in this bloody office block!
Trust me – even Melbourne changes old mate. By 2018 she will be a very different place again.
mahony
PS: Havind said that Pip – I agree with Lazza – you are one of the better informed AFL people about – but on this we part ways.
Dave said | June 17th 2009 @ 7:12pm | Report comment
md, you are right about Bahrainan being an obscure Emirate slightly smaller than the Sutherland Shire. With a population of roughly 275,000 Indians, 125,000 Bangladeshis, 45,000 Pakistanis, in an overall population of about a million you’d think it is more likely to to be a cricket country than a soccer nation.
Pippinu said | June 17th 2009 @ 10:11pm | Report comment
mahony
which bit are parting ways on?
the bit about the 2nd coming?
or the AFL stopping mid season for up to 8 weeks?
Pippinu said | June 17th 2009 @ 10:13pm | Report comment
I just realised my Linda Blair gag was on this thread – didn’t anyone else find it as hilarious as I did???
Kurt said | June 17th 2009 @ 10:43pm | Report comment
Tom – For the record yes I do know how juvenile I’m being. Although I would suggest that the true juveniles are those who take anything said on this site remotely seriously. We’re talking about sport for goodness sakes, not something of actual importance.
Pipps – I thought it was a good Linda Blair gag.
Lazza – probably the Normans who ran Sicily for a while back in the 11th/12th centuries. I’m serious by the way, take a look at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normans#In_Italy
Captain Random said | June 17th 2009 @ 11:24pm | Report comment
Kurt -
Fair enough, but don’t you have to take at least some of the posts seriously? Otherwise the discussion on this site has no value. And if that’s the case, what the hell are we all doing here?
Robbos said | June 17th 2009 @ 11:37pm | Report comment
All aboard the Socceroos train, Sth Africa here we come, jump on board & support Australians representing Australia in the world’s greatest sporting event, Choo choo.
Kurt said | June 17th 2009 @ 11:40pm | Report comment
Captain Random – I’m being a little facetious, I do find these discussions of interest I’m just saying that sometimes we can take ourselves a little too seriously. From my observations of this site the only contributors who seem to engage in actual debate – i.e. – the open and honest exchange of informed opinions are the Rugby supporters. The rest of us rarely rise above the level of play ground name calling. Every now and again I try to engage in informed debate – for example on another discussion I posted my concerns about the supposed economic benefits of hosting the world cup, cited independent research supporting my view and encouraged other contributors to review the research themselves. The result – “you’re just afraid of the rise of soccer!” repeated ad-nauseam.
Redb said | June 18th 2009 @ 11:06am | Report comment
mahony,
“Trust me – even Melbourne changes old mate. By 2018 she will be a very different place again.”
On what trends do you base this statement on? Theatre goers?
Redb
Michael C said | June 18th 2009 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
Eamonn and Pip -
re Daniel Motlop -
the pressure of expectation, just as with a penalty kick in soccer – can sometimes make the relatively easy shot from 30 out directly in front the hardest shot of all. Motlop has his own history of missing the easy ones and drilling the impossible.
If sports did NOT involve human frailty – - then it wouldn’t be half as interesting.
btw – Motlop also has a history of shoulder injuries which has restricted him. He (and older brother Shannon – ‘99 premiership) were at North Melbourne, and then he headed to (Port) Adelaide. He is a very good mark for his size. Good hands.
Eamonn – also, remember, a Sherrin has more scope for error than a soccer ball. (granted, a soccer ball is usually volleyed and so you lose the control but also the scope for extra error ‘variable’ of the hand drop of the ball). A totally different sweet spot and a different batch of variables around ball drop, boot strike, trajectories/angles and impact of wind. If it was simple, any and everyone would do it comfortably all the time. Although, it is fair to ponder why ‘place kicks’ got relegated to history.
mahony said | June 18th 2009 @ 3:11pm | Report comment
Red B – I base it on my observations of people and the city I live in. Not that it is even relevant, but I have not been to the theatre since I was in high school? My statement was compleatly reasonable one from my persperctive (and the perspective on many people who would disagree with you). My retort to your strange outburt is on what trends do you claim Melbourne is a static, unchanging city in which provincial thinking to the exlcusion of external influences remains the norm?
Pip – on the 8 weeks issue – but a fair question in an age of enlightenment…….
mahony
Pippinu said | June 18th 2009 @ 3:27pm | Report comment
Kurt
thanks for the feedback on the Linda Blair gag – I’d hate to think I was wasting my time here!!
Captain Random said | June 18th 2009 @ 4:38pm | Report comment
Kurt -
So what you’re saying is that your post that states that it is juvenile to take anything on this site seriously was … not entirely serious. I’m an idiot. I don’t know why I didn’t see that coming.
Dave said | June 18th 2009 @ 5:20pm | Report comment
Koala Bear, Theres nothing contrived about a draft picks or the draw. It works well an in the AFL and the NFL (the best run comp in the world) and look how good the IPL was with its Auction.
Lazza said | June 18th 2009 @ 5:28pm | Report comment
Dave,
There is something contrived about the AFL draw? You don’t play every team twice so your final league position can depend on a kind or unkind draw?
If you play the top sides twice and the bottom sides only once there’s a good chance you won’t be finishing in the top 4? I still have a problem with rewarding cheating and tanking by giving these bottom teams all the best talent.
Dave said | June 18th 2009 @ 5:31pm | Report comment
Its just the same as the conference system in the NFL.
Lazza said | June 18th 2009 @ 5:33pm | Report comment
Dave,
In the NFL you play every team in your conference twice and teams outside your conference once? Every team in your conference is on an even footing.
Spencer said | June 18th 2009 @ 5:39pm | Report comment
Captain Random – Sounds rather Juvenile? Do you wear underpants on the inside our outside of trousers?
Dave said | June 18th 2009 @ 5:40pm | Report comment
But not every team in the NFL is on an even footing. AFL uses the same system but the difference is in effect they change the conferences around each year.
Lazza said | June 18th 2009 @ 5:47pm | Report comment
Dave, the AFL needs to play 30 rounds or have a conference system if we want a fair draw. There’s no other solution – most AFL fans know this already, they just can’t decide what needs to be done. Both of those solutions present problems as well.
Pippinu said | June 18th 2009 @ 5:59pm | Report comment
Lazza
30 rounds??!!
I dunno – part of the rythm of life is that the footy season is done and dusted inside 7 months.
Koala Bear said | June 18th 2009 @ 6:33pm | Report comment
Dave,
I’ll give you an example… The EPL (I hope you know what that is) have a 20 team league home and away competition… Every club plays each other twice… The draw comes out of a bowl.. There are no contrived paring offs, no draft picks, therefore no tanking to worry about and no final series to determine the champions… First past the post are crowned champions.. That is a Football competition you can call transparent… The most watched and popular league in the world of all codes bar none…
~~~~~~~~
KB
Dave said | June 18th 2009 @ 6:42pm | Report comment
Koala Bear
The EPL is a non contact sport. You can’t expect AFL and NRL players to play 38 games. A better example in the NFL which only plays 16 games. Has finals, a draft, conferences and the Super Bowl which is pretty big
if we want our clubs to go into debt
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/early-doors/article/173941/
and most of them never to win the premiership the EPL is the way to go. Otherwise it’s the NFL model because it’s the best run comp in the world.
MVDave said | June 18th 2009 @ 8:10pm | Report comment
Dave
“The EPL is a non contact sport.” You have obviously never watched or played football…non contact???
How do they get broken legs, split heads etc?
AFL is now closer to Basketball than it ever has been…a game of chip and run.
NFL could play more games surely, they actually have a 60 minute game last for 3 hours with all the stoppages etc.
Michael C said | June 18th 2009 @ 8:26pm | Report comment
Lazza -
the AFL draw is not so much contrived – in a bad sense – in that, with all the stakeholders requests from the clubs, the broadcasters, contractual obligations with venues and the impact in Melbourne of over zealous ground rationalisation and windows of availability etc – - – that the draw MUST be contrived. Especially because, for now, it seems – it’s 22 weeks. Although stand by for a 24 week season coming soon but with most likely 2 fixtured byes per side during the 17 team phase.
It’s far from as simple as the A-League one for example…..and even that is unbalanced within a given year on H vs A matches, and you can see situations like Ade Utd hosting MVFC twice in 8 weeks before 6 weeks later finally MVFC gets to host them.
Reality is – you could seek absolute perfection, but, the team you played 3 weeks ago may be quite different to what you face from the same opponent in another couple of weeks. (otherwise, best of 5 or 7 finals series in US sport wouldn’t work!!).
But – it’d be brilliant to have a more balanced draw – - in the old days, we knew at the half way mark that everyone had played everyone once. You got draw a real line through form at that point. Much better for tipsters!!
Dave –
EPL is non-contact in a similar way as is basketball and netball. Still physical and still certainly ways of getting hurt. Personally I wouldn’t want to go anywhere near soccer without ruddy huge shin guards – - I really don’t like leg/boot tackles.
MVDave -
AFL is closer to BOTH basketball and soccer now than it ever has been. And, the reality for many supporters is that if we wanted to be at the soccer or basketball – - then we would be!!!
Koala Bear said | June 19th 2009 @ 8:56am | Report comment
Dave,
thanks for the link… Liverpool are a good example of a team that plays in the EPL.. Such a tough comp to win and you give no quater and expect no quater that indeed is a transparent competition … I’m a Chelsea supporter myself, so you may understand my pain as well… Glad that next year you will win the Flag with the Demons … It’s about their turn hey… Good draft picks … with a late run in the final 8 after just scraping into the finals to be crowned Champions of the Grooky league… Congratulations lad … But don’t expect to go back to back as the last team will win the following year … That my boy is a contrived competition.. Good luck to you if that is how you like to win leagues … Hmm I think I might go back and support Carlton in a couple of years… They’re due to win soon … its their turn… Oh don’t forget your shin pads laddie ..
~~~~~~
KB
Kurt said | June 19th 2009 @ 9:13am | Report comment
KB – nothing contrived about your club being bought as a plaything by a Russian billionaire who got his money from god knows where and then spends a gazillion on players developed by other clubs to buy a premiership. Nothing contrived at all.
Michael C said | June 19th 2009 @ 10:53am | Report comment
KB -
the EPL.. Such a tough comp to win
yep, especially if you’re outside the Big 4 teams who dominate it.
When you say “about their turn” – - – just be careful saying that near Pip, given his team hasn’t won since 1954 for their one and only flag, and likewise St.Kilda supporters, 1 win only in 1966 – - – it’s actually incumbant upon them this year to prove that bottoming out and getting 1st picks over 3 successive years (given they got Goddard when Carlton were ‘expelled’ from the draft for trying to use EPL ‘buying’ strategies!!!) – to prove that it’s a pathway to a premiership.
Geelong has proven that father son rule is a potential gold mine.
And Hawthorn proved that they did an Essendon (‘93) by winning like the ‘Baby Bombers’ with a team that wasn’t quite ready to be a champion team year on year. (and probably to an EPL advocate illustrated all that is bad about finals and sudden death matches).
Koala Bear said | June 19th 2009 @ 11:26am | Report comment
Kurt,
how could that be considered contrived when Dicky Pratt resolved all Carlton’s bad debts becoming the President of Carlton … The EPL has never stepped in to hand out money to a cash strapped Chelsea pre Roman Abravonich days.. Or the government to hand a life line to the Western Bulldogs .. btw the point of discussion is the differences in the Leagues..
~~~~~~~~
KB
Koala Bear said | June 19th 2009 @ 11:31am | Report comment
Gawd MC, I didn’t know that the EPL had a salary cap… Are you sure about that… ??
~~~~~~~~
KB
Captain Random said | June 19th 2009 @ 10:45pm | Report comment
Spencer -
Yes.
Kurt said | June 19th 2009 @ 11:01pm | Report comment
KB – I understand that we are comparing the differences in the leagues. Truth be told I wish we could have a similar system in the AFL where each team plays all other teams home and away. I’m just pointing out that any system for running a sports competition has its advantages and disadvantages. The AFL/NFL style system of drafts, uneven draws, salary caps etc. does create a ’socialised’ system but offers fans of all teams a chance to taste success. The EPL neo-liberal free-market model offers those at the top of the heap a chance to consolidate their position and effectively ‘pull up the drawbridge’ to the rest of the clubs. Each approach is attractive and unattractive in its own way.
It is no coincidence that the AFL adopted the socialised system in conjunction with its national expansion. Fans of the Melbourne clubs happily tolerated their team being near the bottom for decades on end much as fans of many English league clubs do, just accepting it as the way things are. But would fans of the Swans and Lions, or the Melbourne Victory or Sydney FC? Probably not.
Koala Bear said | June 20th 2009 @ 8:51am | Report comment
Comrade Kurt,
I’m glad you finally are able to see the differences in the Leagues.. One (EPL) being transparent and is governed by free market forces the other (AFL) being contrived.. So now then, how can you be so critical of Football supporters with your comments suggesting that we are socialist communists. After admitting in regards to the AFL league, it needs to be that way, although you say you are not a true believer … Smacks of hypocrisy wouldn’t you say….??
Maybe in future you will tone down you triads on the Football blog…
~~~~~~~
KB
Kurt said | June 20th 2009 @ 9:07am | Report comment
KB – tone down my triads? I reject categorically any suggestions of involvement in Chinese organised crime.
Robbos said | June 20th 2009 @ 9:35am | Report comment
KB,
I still recall the last person you called Comrade, very similar tunes here.
Insular, insecure, who cares about the rest of the world, but always the need to go tell others that they (their code) are the best.
Koala Bear said | June 20th 2009 @ 9:55am | Report comment
Comrade Kurt,
yep, one of the Chinese communist triad.. frothing and foaming at the mouth…. on the football blog..
Robbos,
you have a good memory and comrade Kurt and co. has repeatedly accused us football folk of following the communist line….
~~~~~~~
KB
BigAl said | June 20th 2009 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
Robbos . . . you last post – I’m confused ! – are you talking about yourself here ?
BigAl said | June 20th 2009 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
Blonde Sicilians ? – I wouldn’t be surprised – I know 3 red-heads! – actually more like red- bearded.
Koala Bear said | June 20th 2009 @ 4:54pm | Report comment
Comrade MC,
thanks for your thought that you think the EPL with its P&R is kind of cute and yes I think so too and a lot more… However, I have only ever stated that the Grooky league is contrived opposed to the EPL and nothing you lot have said has changed my mind.. So are we all agreed now that I am correct in stating that…?
Nothing so soulless than protectionism is there..? Clubs that have been around for a hundred years and forever being propped up with contrived protectionism…
~~~~~~~
KB
Robbos said | June 20th 2009 @ 10:16pm | Report comment
MC,
You constantly belittle the A-League, because the AFL is bigger, has higher attendances, more media coverage, you throw facts & figures to prove AFL is bigger & better than the A-League. Now when you discuss the game from a global standard, you say just because you’re bigger doesn’t make you better.
Go figure….
BTW, both & you & Big Al is wrong I was not talking about either of us.
Dave said | June 21st 2009 @ 1:36pm | Report comment
Michael C, you are right EPL is non-contact in a similar way as is basketball and netball. That is why NBA teams play 82 games each a year. The NFL is a contact sport and that is why they play 16 game a year.
Dave said | June 21st 2009 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
Koala Bear, a salary cap is not socialism. It is best business practice. Your modelling is all wrong. The company/employers the AFL/ NRL signs a contract with TV companies who pay the company money. Then the AFL/NRL negotiates with the players/employees to agree on amount of this which the income/turnover will be payed to the players. Once the amount is agreed the company then divvies the money out to their licences/ franchises. A salary cap is the same as a budget which each branch of a company is given to pay its employees.
Dave said | June 21st 2009 @ 1:57pm | Report comment
Robbos, The AFL is one of the biggest football competitions in the world.
Koala Bear said | June 21st 2009 @ 7:02pm | Report comment
Dave,
lol, I do believe you have described a contrived AFL league better than I could ever have done, which you included restrictive trade practices… Email Sonny Bill Williams and get his version of what a contrived competition is all about and what it means to a Rugby League player…
I wish I could guide you to a Grooky player, but unfortunately there are none, who know what it means to be free; to fulfil their true worth or destiny, in a short Grooky career. A slave trade from draft picks to a senior club competition.. Poor devils, no where to migrate to … to receive a fair deal …
Now do some of your research on ELP and report back … You’ll will find since the Bozeman rule, Football players have total autonomy of where they can play and who for; and for how much…
A point in case to help you along … Christian Ronaldo just moved to Real Madrid from Man United for a cool $160m transfer deal, in which he wanted to make… That’s what you call a free market place; unconstrained, in an un-contrived Football Competition..
Btw the AFL would be the smallest competition in the world played at the arse end of the planet… A terminology used by one of your comrades, which I totally agree with… with more than half the teams playing it, in one city, using only three grounds…
~~~~~~
KB
Lewie said | June 22nd 2009 @ 4:32pm | Report comment
MV Dave,
Soccer is a non-contact sport. I’m sure there are instances of darts players and snooker players cutting their hands on a beer glass, or netballers twisting ankles….serious injuries, yes, but still not a contact sport. No-one could ever accuse a soccer player of being courageous for playing the game.
Koala Bear.
AFL has the third highest average attendances of any organised sporting competition in the world, only NFL and Bundesliga exceed it. That is hardly representative of the smallest competition in the world. A-League might more accurately fit that desription however.
Suggesting the EPL is the most popular competition in the world bar none, is an airy-fairy statement that you cannot possibly prove.
The AFL do not have restrictive trade practices. Clubs (employers) pay players (employees) what they think they think they are worth. If players don’t like what they are offered, they’re able to look elsewhere. Nothing restrictive there. Likewise for the NRL. SBW may whine, but it holds little currency (pardon the pun) when there were no NRL employers willing to pay him more than what he was getting. His wages were therefore not restricted. The Bulldogs were not looking to pay him more than what they already were, because they could not afford to. Again, there is no restrictive trade practice involved, merely simple supply and demand. Yes, there is a cap on the club’s spending, but this is a protectionist measure to ensure their survival, and their sport’s survival, it is not implemented to deny players a wage. They would be much poorer if their club and/or sport disappeared. For all their bluff and blunder, it is/was the clubs themselves (certainly in the NRL’s case) who voted to implement and keep the salary cap.
As for your soccer analogy……for every Ronaldo, there’s a corresponding Gareth Barry. At season end 2007/08, he wanted to transfer from Villa to Liverpool, to fulfil his desire of playing Champion’s League. Villa denied his request. Where’s the autonomy there Koala Bear? How about Peter Crouch? He was perfectly happy and settled playing for Liverpool, and had a long-term contract to do so. But the Liverpool manager no longer wanted him, and saw a chance to enhance his club’s financial position, and presumably their player ‘cattle trading’ position by releasing him. Where was Peter Crouch’s autonomy Koala Bear? These examples are common practice for soccer. Players are traded at a club’s/manager’s whim, prior to their contract expiry, all to maximise the profitibility of trading that player’s worth. The player themselves are more often than not a mere pawn to the negotiations. Clubs are even known to refuse to do a transfer deal to the desired club of a player, merely because of a rivalry with that club. Again, i’m wondering where the autonomy is in these instances?
Lazza,
In the NFL you do not play every team in your conference twice and teams outside your conference once? If you did this, that would equate to a 34 ngame season. Therefore, every team in your conference is not on an even footing, as each team’s schedule is selected at random, other than having to play each team in your division twice, which only accounts for 6 of your 16 game schedule.
Lazza said | June 22nd 2009 @ 5:14pm | Report comment
Lewie,
So the NFL is as contrived as the AFL then? Tell an Englishman that his national sport is non-contact? He’ll laugh out loud.
The EPL is the most watched sporting league in the world. Fact. Crowds don’t matter – TV ratings is what brings the money in. The NFL is big in America but doesn’t attract big TV ratings anywhere else. The AFL is struggling for TV ratings in half our country?
The Auteur said | June 22nd 2009 @ 5:15pm | Report comment
Lewie said
“No-one could ever accuse a soccer player of being courageous for playing the game.”
Have you ever went for a high ball? Or tried to win a header?
Pippinu said | June 22nd 2009 @ 5:16pm | Report comment
Lewie
as an aussie rules fan (a big one, I can assure you), I can say that your comments about soccer are a little bit off the mark.
While we all hate anyone taking a dive to milk a penalty, we shouldn’t confuse that with being the only thing happening in a game where:
1. severe pain awaits anyone who cops studs to the wrong part of their legs; and
2. you do have to put your head into situations where you’d prefer you didn’t (and those that do it consistently are generally rewarded in a game where goals are extremely hard to come by).
People might be able to make a case that the contact codes require greater courage – but the response to that is – so what?? Soccer probably requires more courage than tennis or volleyball – so what??
Fair’s fair mate.
Dave said | June 22nd 2009 @ 5:29pm | Report comment
I don’t think saying…….. tell an Englishman that his national sport is non-contact He’ll laugh out loud, proves anything
Tell an American that an Englishman’s nation sport is a contact sport. He’ll laugh out loud.
Robbos said | June 22nd 2009 @ 5:38pm | Report comment
Dave,
Not in the eyes of a German or a Chinese or a Brazilian or a Ghanian or even an American, to them it does not exist, to the others apart from an American the EPL is a one of the biggest football competitions in the world & to some smart Americans & even Australians they are also aware of this too.
As a matter of fact even in NSW & Queensland, the AFL is not that big.
But yes as far attendances go, they are one of the biggest, but as far as awareness or care, it’s very restricted.
MVDave said | June 22nd 2009 @ 5:40pm | Report comment
Lewie
So how many football games have you played (official meaningful games) to come to this non contact conclusion?
My guess from the crap you have stated is you have never played a proper game of football.
The EPL is the most watched and popular sports league in the world bar none. No other league receives over a $1 billion for overseas (not including domestic) TV rights.
Dave
Tell us how many games you have played of competitive, adult football?
Koala Bear said | June 22nd 2009 @ 6:38pm | Report comment
Lewie
yeah, yeah, heard it all before 9 clubs local derbies… If you put that same scenario with the top London clubs and abandon all the lower division football in England you would have the same 3 – 4 times over maybe more, than the Melbourne rules which is only one 16 club competition in the world… nuff said…
Sonny Bill had to fly out of the country in the dead of the night then was threaten with all his possessions confiscated and would be thrown in jail… Hardly the same comparison as Barry… Barry can still leave when his Villa contract is over…
2006: August 19 – Awarded Villa captaincy for opening Premier League game of the season at Arsenal and retains the job.
August 27 – Ends speculation about his future by signing a four-year contract at Villa.
2007: February 2 – Named in England squad for first time since 2003 for friendly against Spain.
October 28 – Becomes youngest player to make 300 Premier League appearances (aged 26 years 247 days), beating Frank Lampard’s record.
2008: May 1 – Liverpool launch bid to buy Barry.
May 2 – Villa boss Martin O’Neill confirms Liverpool’s bid but decries it as “a mish-mash of nameless player exchanges”. O’Neill also criticises Liverpool for making their interest public.
June 1 – Scores first international goal in England’s 3-0 friendly win in Trinidad and Tobago. Also captains England for the first time in second half of the game.
Describes Liverpool’s interest as “flattering”.
June 29 – Reveals he wants to join Liverpool and criticises O’Neill for not making enough effort to keep him at Villa Park.
July 2 – Barry is fined two weeks’ wages and ordered not to return for pre-season training for his criticism of O’Neill. Villa reveal they have rejected another improved offer from Liverpool.
July 16 – Barry is permitted to return to training.
July 22 – Plays for Villa in a friendly at Walsall and is booed by the travelling supporters.
August 22 – Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger reveals his own interest in Barry.
August 27 – Barry’s agent confirms the player will stay with Villa.
2009: May – Villa offer to make Barry their highest-paid player if he signs a new contract.
June 2 – Barry joins Manchester City for £12million.
There you have it Lewie English football is the best example a free market place that works on the supply and demand principle…
The EPL is the most popular competition in the world bar none. Is it an airy-fairy statement that I cannot prove? Hardly, it is rated the best Football league in Europe and the world TV ratings and most followed competition in Asia.. The world’s biggest body of people in the world…
”The EPL is the most watched and popular sports league in the world bar none. No other league receives over a $1 billion for overseas (not including domestic) TV rights.” Thank you MVDave…
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KB
Dave said | June 22nd 2009 @ 6:41pm | Report comment
Sonny Bill could have left when his contract was up as well
Koala Bear said | June 22nd 2009 @ 7:04pm | Report comment
Lewie,
Peter Crouch and players like him in his position.. I did not address this… Yes the manager spoke to PC and told him he did not fit into his plans in a starting eleven… However, PC had the option of staying on and finishing his contractual arrangements in the reserve grade and fight his way back into the first team… But chose to move on to another club … Again full autonomy, the player deciding his future was at another club where he was guaranteed starting in the first XI..
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KB
Koala Bear said | June 22nd 2009 @ 7:14pm | Report comment
Dave,
but he had an offer from Rugby he could not refuse and the RL were never going to allow him the choice to get more money else where or above the fixed salary cap… That he believed was restrictive trade practices… It all comes back to a contrived code league doesn’t it…?
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KB
Dave said | June 22nd 2009 @ 7:17pm | Report comment
Its not restrictive. Once his contract was up he could go to rugby if he wanted.to.
Koala Bear said | June 22nd 2009 @ 7:25pm | Report comment
Yeah but he did not want to wait five years.. that was a life time contract he signed when he was 19 yrs old..
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KB
Dave said | June 22nd 2009 @ 7:35pm | Report comment
He was 21/22 and it was the choice he made because he didn’t like contract negotiations. He is the one who wanted 5 years.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/league/dog-has-his-day-but-bleak-for-omeley/2007/03/09/1173166982364.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
“……..he was offered $500,000 a year over three years but accepted $400,000 over five…….”
westy said | June 22nd 2009 @ 7:46pm | Report comment
KB do not misconstrue my motives. Michael Platini has made clear there already is a salary cap in European Football and their are less than 10 teams in the continent that qualify.
On a smaller scale the EPL has a salary cap in place . It is market based but nonetheless exists. there are in reality only 4 English clubs that qualify. A club like Birmingham with no debt has no chance. The most interesting race in EPL from a tribal point of view is often the relegation battle.
german football and clubs are in decline not in a cultural sense but as viable competitiors at an elite level. There are no viable elite clubs that meet the ” salary cap” in the whole of Scandanavia . This does not mean they are not good competitions they are just out of the minimum salary cap.
It was platini who said the beautiful game is more than about money. he supports a salary cap for European football. He fears a long term decline in French German and Scaninavian clubs not as viable entities but as meaningful participants in Euuropean club football.
Koala Bear said | June 22nd 2009 @ 7:56pm | Report comment
Yep, just goes to prove salary caps and such are depriving other footballers from getting their fair and full entitlements … If the player is not happy with his arrangements under a salary cap better for all he goes… In the end he paid out compensation for him breaking his contract and left in disgrace… Is that a good thing…? I don’t think so … in the EPL there’s always room for players and clubs to come to a desirable out come most of the time … And that’s because it’s not a contrived league … When circumstances change and both parties are not happy, the salary cap is a blight on a code…
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KB
Dave said | June 22nd 2009 @ 8:06pm | Report comment
if he wasn’t happy with the contract being offered to you, there are market forces. He had a chance to go to rugby or the superleague but he chose a five year contract which no one made him sign he asked for 5 years.
Many time’s clubs let payers out of their contracts early to play rugby. Craig Gower and Fraser Anderson are examples. Often players are let out of their contracts to go play in the super league. This is done when the player and the club come to an agreement. However if there is contract the club can hold you to it i.e frank Pritchard but if a player is out of contract he can do whatever he wants to. Something that didn’t come into European soccer till 1995.
Koala Bear said | June 22nd 2009 @ 8:25pm | Report comment
Westy,
The Bundesliga does not have a salary cap they have a formula that is based on the overall earnings of a club financials where they can’t exceed a last company tax return based on a percentage of net or gross figures … However, not quite sure of its mechanics, but the clubs are different in what the formula requires from each of them … Totally different to a one size fits all salary caps in AFL or NRL…
But the bases of this discussion has been on the ELP system for its transparency; first past the post are champions; playing each other twice home and away fixtures; and no salary cap… opposed to the contrived AFL system of who plays who one or three times 8 team finals to find the champions ..
I know the HAL has or will have a simular format next year when it will be easier to get into the finals then to miss them … I find that a lot on nonsense that has been designed by ex AFL administrators … not happy at all Westy… That’s why I love the EPL for what it is…
~~~~~~~~
KB
Koala Bear said | June 22nd 2009 @ 8:45pm | Report comment
Dave,
I really don’t care about Sony Bill’s football ethics only he did what he did because he felt cornered and no other way to break his contract so in the end he paid the compensation… all are now happy … Imo it all was totally unnecessary the way it had panned out…
But what is appalling is the AFL draft where the junior is purely on display like a lump of meat … A kid born in Melbourne followed Carlton and has no choice in the matter where he starts off his career even though he would rather play for Carlton then the Demons or Port Adelaide… because of a draft pick as one of the first best young kids..
Sorry gotta wash up now… good night all….
~~~~~~~
KB
Redb said | June 23rd 2009 @ 8:21am | Report comment
MVDave,
“AFL is now closer to Basketball than it ever has been…a game of chip and run.”
Really? When was the last time you went to an AFL game? You can’t watch too many either.
Soccer as a spectacle as having nothing on Aussie Rules, if you’d been to an AFL game in the last half century you might know that.
Redb
Lewie said | June 23rd 2009 @ 8:55am | Report comment
Lazza,
i work with an Englishman, i’ll be sure to tell him today. In how many countries would EPL be the NUMBER 1 watched sport? When you mention figures of “most watched”, remember that “available” to watch doesn’t necessarily equate to most watched. But regardless, it may very well be the most watched. That doesn’t make it the most popular. In terms of popularity, you must also include numbers of people who are not only indifferent to it, but who actually don’t like it. There’s plenty of them (not me though, i actually enjoy it from time to time). How about people who are fanatical about their sports, to the point say…..of burning effigies, even of their favourite team’s players when something goes amiss? Doesn’t that show a level of popularism that exceeds your normal EPL fan…..rioting thugs duly noted? Anyway, all just goes some way to showing that it was an airy-fairy statement.
and, no, the randomness of playing schedule selection in both the NFL or AFL draws proves neither are contrived.
The Auteur,
yes, i played soccer for four seasons. Went for headers and high balls….once scored from a header. I’m about 5 foot nothing ….doesn’t say much for the opposition does it? I’m the world’s biggest coward (that’s why i argue on the internet)….further proof that playing soccer doesn’t require courage.
Pippinu,
i stand by my comments that it is not a contact sport. That contact occurs, agreed, but it is not integral to the game, and most contact occurs because someone goes outside the rules of the game. Basketball is a similar sport. Yes contact occurs, but that does not make it a contact sport. Marathon runners jostle for position at the start of their race, contact occurs. Doesn’t make running a contact sport. I agree, soccer probably does require more courage than volleyball and tennis, and i agree….so what?
Robbos,
i live in Australia, and don’t often have the time to check in with Germans, Ghanians, Brazilians or Americans (though i do know a lot of Chinese people….they like volleyball and tennis a lot, by the way). I concede that it’s most likely that they’d not be willing to admit that they’re big sissy girls blouses.
MVDave
classic. Ah he doesn’t agree with me…..he must never have played. I know you are, but what am i? As stated above, i actually played for four seasons. Won one comp, had another season where we lost every game, and i scored in total four goals, of which my teammates will happily tell you that every one was a total fluke. Were they meaningful? I once had a female fan from Birrong question my parentage as well as my sexual proclivities. I found that quite meaningful, especially when i noticed the lack of teeth populating her mouth. I once witnessed an opposition player suffer a back-spasm after dry-humping his goal-scoring teammate. Very meaningful indeed, but perhaps not proper.
Koala Bear
you’re the one who stated EPL….that’s EPL…..not me. If you want to go including crowd figures, and changing the criteria, i will too, and i’ve decided i’ll combine the NFL’s figures with the AFL’s. Is that ok with you? You claimed autonomy Koala Bear, not me. As stated, Barry and Crouch are but two examples disproving your autonomy claim. If Barry or any other player broke their contract in the same manner as SBW, they too would have been threatened with legal action. SBW had to fly out in the middle of the etc etc….because he broke his contract. SBW likewise could have left when his contract was over, with no recriminations or bad blood. Happens quite often too. Re Barry, on June 29, how autonomous was he feeling?
Koala Bear, who rates it the best competition in Europe? The Italians? The Spanish? The Germans? Can you provide better examples to back up your argument than quoting MVDave? Can you compare Asian viewing practices of EPL alongside their viewing of cricket? You may very well be right with your figures Koala Bear, but it’s still airy-fairy and subjective; eg it isn’t the most popular competition in my world.
Koala Bear your comments re Crouch, how does any of that show a greater level of autonomy than that for AFL or NRL players? Re SBW and his contract “he could not refuse”. No Koala Bear, you are very wrong. He could have refused. Simple. SBW could have got more money within the NRL, if it was offered. It wasn’t.
Koala Bear said | June 23rd 2009 @ 8:54pm | Report comment
Lewie,
you really are behind the times lad… The national football coach of he world cup holders Italy, Marcello Lippi, has acknowledged that the most popular, strongest, and watch, Football league in the world is the ELP… He said so in an interview that it has become the Global league of Football in the world with most of the best players gravitating to the EPL; as this year, 3 of the teams that qualified for the United European Championships (UCL) semi finalist came from the EPL…
Just on your comment of the AFL and NFL I had no idea they had the same rules … Which of the two is the first or second division and in what same country do these leagues play in…? (Hmm … I think you have lost it…)
Now, please tell me what part of the Messrs Crouch and Barry transfers did you not understand…? They have full autonomy to stay or go if they wish by asking for a transfer to another club … there is no salary cap preventing them moving from one club to another during the season within the transfer window. If they wish to go, or if the club seeks to release them, either way, they can transfer from their old club to a new club… The players in question left their old employers on amicable terms as neither was happy with their situation at their old club… No one breaks a contract in English football you either see out your contract or look else where to be transferred to, for an agreed transfer fee set by the clubs… In AFL you do not have that ease of movement during the season because of salary cap restrictions… Some clubs can’t fit a new player under the salary cap and need to tell others to leave or receive less…
Just to point out SBW case he could not get near the same money that the French Rugby club were offering from any NRL club… Don’t you get it..? No NRL club could match the offer… That’s why he stole away like a thief in the night… I don’t personally agree or care… Simply pointing out it was because of a salary cap restriction that no NRL club could match the money offered to him by the French club as a result that’s why he defected…
I hope you understand now the reasons why … as your poor old comrade who is as thick as a brick is still struggling with the complexities of a what is a restrictive trade practice imposed on a player because of a salary cap… That SBW had threatened to take to court; that would have had the greatest ramifications for all codes that impose a salary cap right down to your AFL…
Poor old comrade Kurt with his two only perfect working body parts, his mouth and anal passage… that are interchangeable seemed to have gotten stuck with the crap he has tried to unload on “the Bear” (roar blogger) of a false independent research said he found of a FIFA WC producing no monetary windfall by holding such an event in Australia or elsewhere…
Living in Wally World USA it has certainly played havoc with his comprehension and reasoning of what independent advice that was sought after and commissioned by the Federal Government from Price Waterhouse and partners… A $5billion windfall for Australia… I think he was the one who had claimed that the Dubai AFL games had enormous benefits for Australian business… Far more so than staging the FIFA world cup on Australian soil…. lol
~~~~~~~~
KB
Michael C said | June 23rd 2009 @ 9:43pm | Report comment
There’s courage and then there’s stupidity,
there’s toughness and then there’s just plain rough,
there’s the rules and then there’s that contact just bordering the rules,
We know that if soccer players didn’t wear huge whopping shin guards then barely any soccer play would reach age 25 without at least 4 broken legs.
We know that you couldn’t survive 5 mins in Grid Iron without the protective equipment…..largely because the protective equipment of others would become a lethal weapon.
What I can say is that I wouldn’t want to be seeking to head a ball if someone else thought it a smart idea to scissor kick it – - irony, worst example of that I saw was Jeff White of Melbourne{afl} getting a boot in the jaw (he wasn’t trying to head it).
KB -
the AFL draft isn’t so much the issue – - it’s more the trade week that they can’t get right.
The draft provides a clean and structured process as part of the pathway that manages the progression – - usually thru their last year of secondary school. It ensures that we don’t see 10 year olds being signed up by a club on the other side of the world!!
(however, the NSW scholarships for example allow 14 yr olds to be signed onto scholarships – - but, it’s non binding and is just that, a scholarship ‘grant’)
The meat market you may call it – avoids a free for all, which would, be like making the potential star a chip fought over by a flock of seagulls………..(seems I’ve heard that analogy somewhere before??)
westy said | June 23rd 2009 @ 9:46pm | Report comment
KB I do not play put down or “put up” here. I am interested in your position re the call by Platini for a slary cap for European football . Football is part of the fabric of life in Europe but there is genuine concern in Scandinavia/ germany and France as to the competitiveness of their clubs,
Platini was none to pleased when he asked some french schoolchildren who there team was to be told Arsenal and Red Devils.
The most entertaining race in the EPL is sometimes for 5th place and who is to avoid relegation.Some teams go nowhere being permanent middle of the road fixtures.I follow EPl and some of these middle of the road teams have over 2 four year measuring periods leaked supporters to the majors. care must be taken in maintaining the generational nexus. Birmingham have found more punters in their area go for the majors then itself. Birmingham is debt free but its future is to be permanently average. It is not the liverpool or Evertons that are in peril but the Newcastle/ suderland and Hull etc.
A Salary cap is essential during the building stage of developing support for the australian A league franchises
Midfielder said | June 23rd 2009 @ 9:53pm | Report comment
Westy
I must concur with your European comments… the group of 14 … maybe now only 12 maybe up to 18 have control of the worlds best players have a massive influence over world football…
Even football cannot live forever on its past and there is a need to spreads the wealth rather than contain it… the Bowman ruling has transferred the power of football to a handful of clubs.
Also agree your comment about the need to have in the foreseeable future a A-League competition where teams are somewhat equal so as the domestic competition can develop and grow.
Lewie said | June 23rd 2009 @ 10:41pm | Report comment
Koala Bear,
some of the best advice i ever heard was “never argue with an idiot. They’ll bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience”. But what the hell, i’ll take the plunge anyway.
Re the Barry and Crouch transfers, i’m certain there’s much that i don’t understand about them, but i’m even more certain you are anything but the person to enlighten me. As i have stated, and in your reply post you concurred, Barry did request a release from Villa, to go to Liverpool. How did that work out for him? No need to reply, you already did so….see below:
“June 29 – Reveals he wants to join Liverpool and criticises O’Neill for not making enough effort to keep him at Villa Park.
July 2 – Barry is fined two weeks’ wages and ordered not to return for pre-season training for his criticism of O’Neill. Villa reveal they have rejected another improved offer from Liverpool.”
He’s just about drowning in his autonomy, isn’t he? (sorry, i’m being sarcastic…..i’ll try to point out when i do this, because you obviously struggle to recognise it…..eg the AFL figures combined with NFL)
Anyhoo, so his current team wasn’t happy with the transfer offer from the team he wished to join? But it’s autonomous right? The player has the power, right? Villa….not happy….Liverpool offer…..someone shake me when Barry enters the room would you please.
And what about Crouchy….loved Mersey, the Kop loved him. Crouchy, happy as a dog with two dicks, doing his robot-man….why did he want to leave Anfield? Well the answer is, he didn’t. So yes, he could have stayed despite the pressure of a manager wanting to release him in the face of an opposition team’s large monetary transfer fee. Yep Senor Benitez could have let him stay too. Let him stay until his contract expired, at which time Liverpool would have received no remuneration upon his departure. Or Rafa the Gaffer could maximise his investment by offering him up when there were potential takers. Yep, Crouchy would have loved all this. Well, no, actually he wouldn’t, i was being sarcastic again K Bear. He wanted to stay. And in your autonomous world, he would have, because there would have been no recriminations from his Manager or team, because in your autonomous world, he has all the power. But how about reality K Bear? Been there lately….even just a visit perhaps? If you want, i’ll let you list all the ways managers and teams can get upset, and the subsequent recriminations against offending players, because really, i get bored hearing about them all the time…..did i hear Alex Ferguson mentioned….anyone….anyone?
How about your popularity contest. I’ll concede Lippi to you….no seriously, he’s all yours. But tell me…..all those other millions of soccer fans, in Italy, Spain, Germany….what’s their favourite competition? Now remember, this is a popularity contest, winner takes all. But look, you can have this one….freebie…all yours….all i said was it’s an airy fairy comment. I’ll take the airy’s, you can have the fairies. They’ll be right at home living in your world where EPL players have total autonomy on who, where, and what they play for.
Now that i’ve been so generous, i’m looking for you to reciprocate. I want you to acknowledge….(c’mon, even Fonzie did eventually say he was wrong)…….that no NRL side could match the offer of the French Rugby side……becausssssssse…..no NRL side could afford to match it. Yes, there is a cap, but why is there a cap K Bear? Because the NRL clubs want a salary cap, that’s why. You simply cannot say he was a victim of restrictive trade practices, because for this to be true, there would have to have been a party within the NRL that was willing to pay him more than what the Bulldogs were…..not withstanding that he was smack bang in the middle of contract term which none of them would have been willing or able to break.
Now Fonzie, he had more than a few hang-ups, so if you can confirm for me Koala Bear that you can at least eat liver, i’ll concede defeat and we can put this baby to bed.
Robbos said | June 23rd 2009 @ 11:09pm | Report comment
Wow Lewie, a one man battleship, you have an opinion, that is all what we have an opinion. Relax dude.
Lewie said | June 23rd 2009 @ 11:15pm | Report comment
being entitled to an opinion, does not exclude one from having their opinion examined, and disected Robbos. Something about backsides and everyone having one…………………
That’s the essence of a debate, which essentially is what this site is about, is it not?
or is it more about patronising comments such as “Relax dude.”?
Kurt said | June 23rd 2009 @ 11:50pm | Report comment
Poor KB, watching him argue is a little like watching the Black Knight in the Holy Grail. Doesn’t matter how thoroughly eviscerated his arguments are, he’s still there resting on his stumps, sword in his mouth with blood spouting everywhere, hurling insults at anyone who comes his way! Certainly makes for good entertainment.
Robbos said | June 24th 2009 @ 7:24am | Report comment
Is it more patronising than a comment like calling someone an idiot because his views are different to yours in a site that encourages debate. Pot calling the kettle.
You are trying to compare the NRL & AFL with the EPL, 2 competions though massive in this little corner of the world, it’s really quite tiny, small salary cap, small wages small sponsorship, with little or no other competition.
Hence why a minor sport in France can buy the the major player in the NRL.
Now you say you are too busy to know what the average Germans, Ghanians, Brazilians or Americans are doing, I can tell you they aint following the NRL or the AFL.
You state that football is not a contact sport, well again, yes you have a backside. Football may not be a game where the sole purpose of some of the players is to go out there to maime the opposition like NRL, but there is full of contact in football, but like I saidyou have a backside.
Lewie said | June 24th 2009 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Robbos,
i agree, it would be just as patronising. But i didn’t call him an idiot because his views are different to mine. I called him an idiot because he contradicted his own argument in his own post (which, by the way, was quite patronising) (see following):
“Now, please tell me what part of the Messrs Crouch and Barry transfers did you not understand…? They have full autonomy to stay or go if they wish by asking for a transfer to another club …”
prior to that:
“June 29 – Reveals he wants to join Liverpool and criticises O’Neill for not making enough effort to keep him at Villa Park.
July 2 – Barry is fined two weeks’ wages and ordered not to return for pre-season training for his criticism of O’Neill. Villa reveal they have rejected another improved offer from Liverpool.”
Robbos,
at no time have i compared the AFL or NRL support, wages, sponsorship, or size, or for that matter popularity with the EPL. I have merely argued the point about restricted trade practices.
I stated that saying the EPL is the most popular competition in the world is an airy-fairy statement. I stand by that.
I never stated that Germans, Ghanans, Americans, or Brazilians would be following the NRL or AFL.
You are right, i have a backside.
and Robbos, there are no NRL players whose sole purpose is to go out there and maim the opposition. I know you soccer supporting folk aren’t big on factual debate, you like emotional debate better, but let’s try to keep it sensible.
(patronising enough?)
Robbos said | June 24th 2009 @ 9:10am | Report comment
Lewie it’s called opinion, you don’t think Soccer is cobtact sport I do, you don’t RL players go out to maim (thanks for the spelling) others I probably think that word maybe abit too harsh, but generally the thugerry element remains in league
I followed league for many years, maybe I have got off it because I’m a dragons supporter & we have choked so many times that even this year I refuse to get too excited.
But Gallen is a thug, no place on a football field, I went to the 07 Grand final when Storm monstered the Sea Eagles & Crocker hit Stewart senseless with a shoulder charge, knock Manly’s best player out of the game. I don’t think it mattered result wise, but that was horrible attack on a defenceless defender with his eys on the ball by an attacker who aim was not to catch the ball but to hit him so hard to jolt the ball out, the play went horribly wrong because he took out his head.
The media praised Crocker for his bravery the next day (no bravery in my eyes, at worse thugery, at best terrible rules), many of my mates said there was nothing wrong with it, well that was where opinions come into it.
Maybe I am a wimp & like a ‘non contact’ sport like soccer, but to me that was cheating with a capital C as bad as any diving i have seen in football, plus it was a thug act.
I like my sport between the the best not between who is the dirtiest.
Lewie said | June 24th 2009 @ 11:51am | Report comment
Robbos,
examples of thuggery and cowardice can be found in all sports. Joey Barton comes to mind, for soccer.
I fully respect your right, and anyone else’s, to an opinion, and to a debate. But when facts are dismissed (ad nauseum in some instances), it’s certainly reasonable to highlight them, which is what i believe i did with Koala Bear. As for the manner in which i did it, perhaps it’s childish of me, but i was merely responding in kind, which if you re-read his posts is clear for all to see.
By the way, just my opinion, as ugly as it looked, I believe Crocker’s hit on Stewart was well within the game’s rules, and as i’m not a Manly supporter, i must therfore logically despise them (and do i what) so i thought it was excellent.
Koala Bear said | June 24th 2009 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
Lewie,
what happened mate did the brain go out with the foreskin when your parents had you circumcised…? Are the last two lines not clear enough for you to comprehend..?
2009: May – Villa offer to make Barry their highest-paid player if he signs a new contract.
June 2 – Barry joins Manchester City for £12million.
In the end Liverpool lost interest because the two clubs could not settle on a transfer deal it was business… O’Neil’s right to try to get the best transfer deal possible… Liverpool’s bid was well below par even with upgrade revised amount, as Benitez only wanted a reserve to cover for Torres…
It seems you’re the idiot … Crouchy is in the England WC squad… He did love the Liverpool club … But as you are as thick as a brick … allow me to explain … Crouchy could have remained at Liverpool in the reserve team, but, because the first choice striker for Liverpool is Torres; the first pick front runner for the Spanish national football team and regarded by some as between the 1st-4th best player in the world… Crouchy by staying at Liverpool realised he was not going to displace Torres as first choice No. 9 and that would have meant by playing in the Liverpool’s reserve team he would ultimately lose or jeopardise his postilion in the England WC squad… I hope you can absorb that rationale in the wide open spaces of your cranium…
Yes your views are different to mine… I said the AFL is a contrived competition with salary cap, draft, and of the disgraceful cheating tanking practices, and with a final 8 playoffs to find a champion… Which you have challenged, I pointed out the EPL is not so because of its structure 2 fixtures home and away, first past the post are the champions, and a good transfer system…
You wrote: “eg the AFL figures combined with NFL” … Lewie are you having difficulty understanding your code is not the NFL…? You fool, I could have said that the EPL and the NFL figures combined are top of the pile too… lol… Are you always this stupid or is this a special occasion…? Don’t you understand that the English FA is a tier structure with the EPL on top of the pyramid of the lower 1st – 4th divisions of English professional Football with some of those clubs capable of drawing in excess of 45k…?
Now maybe you can explain to me why Benny Cousins couldn’t resume his career at the Eagles after a successful rehabilitation programme… Where he clearly wants to be….?
And just to add I’m also a South Sydney Rabbitoh’s supporter…
~~~~~~~~
KB
Koala Bear said | June 24th 2009 @ 12:24pm | Report comment
Robbos,
many thanks for your support… but this guy Lewie is not worth debating with he is just another anti-football blogger like his cult leader… Let’s face it he has described football as a non-contact sport… Maybe he should watch a few games of EPL and the broken legs that occur in a match… In the Rule book: contact with a shoulder to shoulder charge is legal… 2 a challenge for the ball and making contact with a player is legal providing you first touch the ball in the tackle before colliding with the player… Pretty simple to understand I would have thought…
Westy,
as always it’s a pleasure reading your well balanced comments and I hold them in very high regard, but sometimes I can’t help responding negatively to football-bashers… I hope you understand my frustration with these irresponsible AFL posters… Especially when it’s on a Football thread… btw of course you are right…
~~~~~~~~
KB
Koala Bear said | June 24th 2009 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
Kurt,
the insults come from you foremost. I simply reply in your same manner, poor ol’ fella seems your life at Wally World USA have blurred your reasoning with winning a FIFA WC bid… and a bag full of cash some $5billion for the nation…
Have you done your research with an independent source for the Dubai AFL government assisted matches with its enormous wealth now heading towards Australian shores…? I can’t wait for your figures from Price Waterhouse…
~~~~~~~
KB
Lewie said | June 24th 2009 @ 3:19pm | Report comment
Hi Koala Bear,
just wondering…..who’s your stunt typist?
ask them to look up what autonomy means.
And….i never once challenged whether the EPL draw was contrived or not, i pointed out the randomness of both the AFL and NFL draws, not withstanding that some fixtures are pre-selected. Your failure to recognise the sarcasm (despite me highlighting it in my last post) in regards to the AFL and NFL only serves to portray you in a poor light.
I could care less which which NRL team you support, and whilst i’m not what you could call an AFL fan, it would appear pretty obvious to me why Cousins is no longer an Eagle.
Nice manipulation of the Barry data though, but please stick to reality….the dates i refer to are from 2008, not 2009. Autonomy, remember….your word, not mine.
I am not anti-football, or even anti-soccer. I quite enjoy EPL games. I am however anti-rabid, myopic soccer fans. And there appears to be an abundance on this site alone.
In regards to contact in soccer, i still contend that the act of contact with an opponenet is far from being integral to the fabric of the game, as it is say in a tackling code. Yes, soccer does have tackling, but the object of the tackle is to get the ball, not the man.
I don’t mind being insulted Koala Bear, i’ve got plenty of experience at it. But please, do try to imbue it with some wit. If you are, as i now expect, under the age of 14, please forgive me, the anonymity of these sites can have us all act in ways we would not do normally.
Koala Bear said | June 24th 2009 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
Now, please tell me what part of the Messrs Crouch and Barry transfers did you not understand…? They have full autonomy to stay or go if they wish by asking for a transfer to another club … there is no salary cap preventing them moving from one club to another during the season within the transfer window. If they wish to go, or if the club seeks to release them, either way, they can transfer from their old club to a new club… The players in question left their old employers on amicable terms as neither was happy with their situation at their old club… No one breaks a contract in English football you either see out your contract or look else where to be transferred to, for an agreed transfer fee set by the clubs…
Lewie,
reread my previous comment… Clearly I said O’Neil was not going to stop Barry from going to Liverpool… It was Benitez who was looking for a bargain cut price… He would have gone I stated so much at “an agreed transfer by the managers”
“They have full autonomy to stay or go if they wish by asking for a transfer to another club” see comment in my piece
That happened in the end after he refused O’Neil’s final offer…
Now did you understand my comment about the tier structure of the English FA…? Clearly not … You again have the temerity to call me an idiot when you are clearly a fool… Gawd you were lumping figures together that were clearly different codes I was not… yet you could not grasp my meaning of combined English FA competitions… Yes you are a fool .. Mummy’s calling me I have to go….
~~~~~~~~~
KB
Lazza said | June 24th 2009 @ 4:30pm | Report comment
“In regards to contact in soccer, i still contend that the act of contact with an opponenet is far from being integral to the fabric of the game”
Strength and contact are a very important part of the game. That’s why a lot of Asian teams struggle, if their skills can’t compensate they usually suffer at the hands of bigger, stonger opponents. Did you see that USA defender trying to prevent a header on goal in the Confed Cup? The Brazilian was just too strong for him and muscled him out the way.
Soccer is not a collision sport but strength is very important and there’s certainly a lot of contact.
Robbos said | June 24th 2009 @ 4:53pm | Report comment
Lewie,
I suppose Lazza puts it best, Football is not a Collision sport but defanately a contact sport.
As for Crocker’s tackle very fine line, he knocked out the best player in the opposition, very fine line between a great hit & cheating or even thugery.
Kurt said | June 25th 2009 @ 3:48am | Report comment
Lewie – I’m really appreciating your attempts to bring a little intellectual honesty to this forum but a word of advice on engaging KB in debate – I recommend finding something a little more responsive and capable of listening such as a piece of furniture, mailbox or possibly a lump of old wood. I am beginning to suspect he may actually be an AI routine (emphasis on the A rather than the I) built into this website that the developers switch on whenever things are a bit quiet and they want a laugh.
So by all means continue with the discussion but just understand what you are dealing with.
Lewie said | June 25th 2009 @ 8:58am | Report comment
Kurt
very clever. I will take that advice on board.
i’m done pointing out the idiocy of KB’s posts. It’s there for all to see. i won’t be responding to anymore insults on this particular thread, but look forward to replying to them on other ones.
Lazza and Robbos,
re my comments on ‘contact’ sports, your definition of ‘collision’ is a very good point well made, and better describes what i was intimating.
I’ve only just had this site brought to my attention. I quite enjoy it. For the most part great banter.
Cheers.
Dave said | June 26th 2009 @ 6:58pm | Report comment
KB ithe thread you said “I hope you understand my frustration with these irresponsible AFL posters… Especially when it’s on a Football thread… btw of course you are right…”
the title of the thread is
“Will AFL and NRL take a backseat to World Cup?”
I think AFL and NRL fans have an opinion on that subject
colin said | July 4th 2009 @ 5:58pm | Report comment
even if they take a backseat this event is amazing for australia in general. 1. its amazing for our economy, 2. its amazing for our national football team and a great chance to secure glory, 3. football development will prosper, 4. afl can benefit from this too, the only reason i dont take much interest in afl is because nobody has heard of it, it is a fun to watch sport and i believe this can be their best chance to market their sport, after all it would be nice to see some other country for us to compete with in afl. wc is terrific for all australia. the only thing which i am not sure of is how will nrl benefit. its well known the only other country which considers it a “popular sport” is papua new guinea, it definately wont make it more marketable because people wont switch from rugby to league, and even if our stadiums are increased nrl attendances are pretty abismal when you consider how much media coverage they get. if your only getting 15k a game and other games get 2k whereas afl gets 35k minimum and melb victory also gets 30k minimum i dont see how this will at all benefit league. looks like a-league, afl and most importantly AUSTRALIA wins