the title of the thread is
“Will AFL and NRL take a backseat to World Cup?”

I think AFL and NRL fans have an opinion on that subject

very clever. I will take that advice on board.

i’m done pointing out the idiocy of KB’s posts. It’s there for all to see. i won’t be responding to anymore insults on this particular thread, but look forward to replying to them on other ones.

Lazza and Robbos,

re my comments on ‘contact’ sports, your definition of ‘collision’ is a very good point well made, and better describes what i was intimating.

I’ve only just had this site brought to my attention. I quite enjoy it. For the most part great banter.

Cheers.

So by all means continue with the discussion but just understand what you are dealing with.

I suppose Lazza puts it best, Football is not a Collision sport but defanately a contact sport.

As for Crocker’s tackle very fine line, he knocked out the best player in the opposition, very fine line between a great hit & cheating or even thugery.

Strength and contact are a very important part of the game. That’s why a lot of Asian teams struggle, if their skills can’t compensate they usually suffer at the hands of bigger, stonger opponents. Did you see that USA defender trying to prevent a header on goal in the Confed Cup? The Brazilian was just too strong for him and muscled him out the way.

Soccer is not a collision sport but strength is very important and there’s certainly a lot of contact.

Lewie,
reread my previous comment… Clearly I said O’Neil was not going to stop Barry from going to Liverpool… It was Benitez who was looking for a bargain cut price… He would have gone I stated so much at “an agreed transfer by the managers”

“They have full autonomy to stay or go if they wish by asking for a transfer to another club” see comment in my piece

That happened in the end after he refused O’Neil’s final offer…

Now did you understand my comment about the tier structure of the English FA…? Clearly not … You again have the temerity to call me an idiot when you are clearly a fool… Gawd you were lumping figures together that were clearly different codes I was not… yet you could not grasp my meaning of combined English FA competitions… Yes you are a fool .. Mummy’s calling me I have to go….

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KB

just wondering…..who’s your stunt typist?

ask them to look up what autonomy means.

And….i never once challenged whether the EPL draw was contrived or not, i pointed out the randomness of both the AFL and NFL draws, not withstanding that some fixtures are pre-selected. Your failure to recognise the sarcasm (despite me highlighting it in my last post) in regards to the AFL and NFL only serves to portray you in a poor light.

I could care less which which NRL team you support, and whilst i’m not what you could call an AFL fan, it would appear pretty obvious to me why Cousins is no longer an Eagle.

Nice manipulation of the Barry data though, but please stick to reality….the dates i refer to are from 2008, not 2009. Autonomy, remember….your word, not mine.

I am not anti-football, or even anti-soccer. I quite enjoy EPL games. I am however anti-rabid, myopic soccer fans. And there appears to be an abundance on this site alone.

In regards to contact in soccer, i still contend that the act of contact with an opponenet is far from being integral to the fabric of the game, as it is say in a tackling code. Yes, soccer does have tackling, but the object of the tackle is to get the ball, not the man.

I don’t mind being insulted Koala Bear, i’ve got plenty of experience at it. But please, do try to imbue it with some wit. If you are, as i now expect, under the age of 14, please forgive me, the anonymity of these sites can have us all act in ways we would not do normally.

Have you done your research with an independent source for the Dubai AFL government assisted matches with its enormous wealth now heading towards Australian shores…? I can’t wait for your figures from Price Waterhouse…

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KB

Westy,
as always it’s a pleasure reading your well balanced comments and I hold them in very high regard, but sometimes I can’t help responding negatively to football-bashers… I hope you understand my frustration with these irresponsible AFL posters… Especially when it’s on a Football thread… btw of course you are right…

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KB

2009: May – Villa offer to make Barry their highest-paid player if he signs a new contract.
June 2 – Barry joins Manchester City for £12million.

In the end Liverpool lost interest because the two clubs could not settle on a transfer deal it was business… O’Neil’s right to try to get the best transfer deal possible… Liverpool’s bid was well below par even with upgrade revised amount, as Benitez only wanted a reserve to cover for Torres…

It seems you’re the idiot … Crouchy is in the England WC squad… He did love the Liverpool club … But as you are as thick as a brick … allow me to explain … Crouchy could have remained at Liverpool in the reserve team, but, because the first choice striker for Liverpool is Torres; the first pick front runner for the Spanish national football team and regarded by some as between the 1st-4th best player in the world… Crouchy by staying at Liverpool realised he was not going to displace Torres as first choice No. 9 and that would have meant by playing in the Liverpool’s reserve team he would ultimately lose or jeopardise his postilion in the England WC squad… I hope you can absorb that rationale in the wide open spaces of your cranium…

Yes your views are different to mine… I said the AFL is a contrived competition with salary cap, draft, and of the disgraceful cheating tanking practices, and with a final 8 playoffs to find a champion… Which you have challenged, I pointed out the EPL is not so because of its structure 2 fixtures home and away, first past the post are the champions, and a good transfer system…

You wrote: “eg the AFL figures combined with NFL” … Lewie are you having difficulty understanding your code is not the NFL…? You fool, I could have said that the EPL and the NFL figures combined are top of the pile too… lol… Are you always this stupid or is this a special occasion…? Don’t you understand that the English FA is a tier structure with the EPL on top of the pyramid of the lower 1st – 4th divisions of English professional Football with some of those clubs capable of drawing in excess of 45k…?

Now maybe you can explain to me why Benny Cousins couldn’t resume his career at the Eagles after a successful rehabilitation programme… Where he clearly wants to be….?

And just to add I’m also a South Sydney Rabbitoh’s supporter…

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KB

examples of thuggery and cowardice can be found in all sports. Joey Barton comes to mind, for soccer.

I fully respect your right, and anyone else’s, to an opinion, and to a debate. But when facts are dismissed (ad nauseum in some instances), it’s certainly reasonable to highlight them, which is what i believe i did with Koala Bear. As for the manner in which i did it, perhaps it’s childish of me, but i was merely responding in kind, which if you re-read his posts is clear for all to see.

By the way, just my opinion, as ugly as it looked, I believe Crocker’s hit on Stewart was well within the game’s rules, and as i’m not a Manly supporter, i must therfore logically despise them (and do i what) so i thought it was excellent.

I followed league for many years, maybe I have got off it because I’m a dragons supporter & we have choked so many times that even this year I refuse to get too excited.

But Gallen is a thug, no place on a football field, I went to the 07 Grand final when Storm monstered the Sea Eagles & Crocker hit Stewart senseless with a shoulder charge, knock Manly’s best player out of the game. I don’t think it mattered result wise, but that was horrible attack on a defenceless defender with his eys on the ball by an attacker who aim was not to catch the ball but to hit him so hard to jolt the ball out, the play went horribly wrong because he took out his head.
The media praised Crocker for his bravery the next day (no bravery in my eyes, at worse thugery, at best terrible rules), many of my mates said there was nothing wrong with it, well that was where opinions come into it.
Maybe I am a wimp & like a ‘non contact’ sport like soccer, but to me that was cheating with a capital C as bad as any diving i have seen in football, plus it was a thug act.
I like my sport between the the best not between who is the dirtiest.

i agree, it would be just as patronising. But i didn’t call him an idiot because his views are different to mine. I called him an idiot because he contradicted his own argument in his own post (which, by the way, was quite patronising) (see following):

“Now, please tell me what part of the Messrs Crouch and Barry transfers did you not understand…? They have full autonomy to stay or go if they wish by asking for a transfer to another club …”

prior to that:

“June 29 – Reveals he wants to join Liverpool and criticises O’Neill for not making enough effort to keep him at Villa Park.

July 2 – Barry is fined two weeks’ wages and ordered not to return for pre-season training for his criticism of O’Neill. Villa reveal they have rejected another improved offer from Liverpool.”

Robbos,

at no time have i compared the AFL or NRL support, wages, sponsorship, or size, or for that matter popularity with the EPL. I have merely argued the point about restricted trade practices.

I stated that saying the EPL is the most popular competition in the world is an airy-fairy statement. I stand by that.

I never stated that Germans, Ghanans, Americans, or Brazilians would be following the NRL or AFL.

You are right, i have a backside.

and Robbos, there are no NRL players whose sole purpose is to go out there and maim the opposition. I know you soccer supporting folk aren’t big on factual debate, you like emotional debate better, but let’s try to keep it sensible.

(patronising enough?)

You are trying to compare the NRL & AFL with the EPL, 2 competions though massive in this little corner of the world, it’s really quite tiny, small salary cap, small wages small sponsorship, with little or no other competition.
Hence why a minor sport in France can buy the the major player in the NRL.
Now you say you are too busy to know what the average Germans, Ghanians, Brazilians or Americans are doing, I can tell you they aint following the NRL or the AFL.

You state that football is not a contact sport, well again, yes you have a backside. Football may not be a game where the sole purpose of some of the players is to go out there to maime the opposition like NRL, but there is full of contact in football, but like I saidyou have a backside.

That’s the essence of a debate, which essentially is what this site is about, is it not?

or is it more about patronising comments such as “Relax dude.”?

some of the best advice i ever heard was “never argue with an idiot. They’ll bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience”. But what the hell, i’ll take the plunge anyway.

Re the Barry and Crouch transfers, i’m certain there’s much that i don’t understand about them, but i’m even more certain you are anything but the person to enlighten me. As i have stated, and in your reply post you concurred, Barry did request a release from Villa, to go to Liverpool. How did that work out for him? No need to reply, you already did so….see below:

“June 29 – Reveals he wants to join Liverpool and criticises O’Neill for not making enough effort to keep him at Villa Park.

July 2 – Barry is fined two weeks’ wages and ordered not to return for pre-season training for his criticism of O’Neill. Villa reveal they have rejected another improved offer from Liverpool.”

He’s just about drowning in his autonomy, isn’t he? (sorry, i’m being sarcastic…..i’ll try to point out when i do this, because you obviously struggle to recognise it…..eg the AFL figures combined with NFL)

Anyhoo, so his current team wasn’t happy with the transfer offer from the team he wished to join? But it’s autonomous right? The player has the power, right? Villa….not happy….Liverpool offer…..someone shake me when Barry enters the room would you please.

And what about Crouchy….loved Mersey, the Kop loved him. Crouchy, happy as a dog with two dicks, doing his robot-man….why did he want to leave Anfield? Well the answer is, he didn’t. So yes, he could have stayed despite the pressure of a manager wanting to release him in the face of an opposition team’s large monetary transfer fee. Yep Senor Benitez could have let him stay too. Let him stay until his contract expired, at which time Liverpool would have received no remuneration upon his departure. Or Rafa the Gaffer could maximise his investment by offering him up when there were potential takers. Yep, Crouchy would have loved all this. Well, no, actually he wouldn’t, i was being sarcastic again K Bear. He wanted to stay. And in your autonomous world, he would have, because there would have been no recriminations from his Manager or team, because in your autonomous world, he has all the power. But how about reality K Bear? Been there lately….even just a visit perhaps? If you want, i’ll let you list all the ways managers and teams can get upset, and the subsequent recriminations against offending players, because really, i get bored hearing about them all the time…..did i hear Alex Ferguson mentioned….anyone….anyone?

How about your popularity contest. I’ll concede Lippi to you….no seriously, he’s all yours. But tell me…..all those other millions of soccer fans, in Italy, Spain, Germany….what’s their favourite competition? Now remember, this is a popularity contest, winner takes all. But look, you can have this one….freebie…all yours….all i said was it’s an airy fairy comment. I’ll take the airy’s, you can have the fairies. They’ll be right at home living in your world where EPL players have total autonomy on who, where, and what they play for.

Now that i’ve been so generous, i’m looking for you to reciprocate. I want you to acknowledge….(c’mon, even Fonzie did eventually say he was wrong)…….that no NRL side could match the offer of the French Rugby side……becausssssssse…..no NRL side could afford to match it. Yes, there is a cap, but why is there a cap K Bear? Because the NRL clubs want a salary cap, that’s why. You simply cannot say he was a victim of restrictive trade practices, because for this to be true, there would have to have been a party within the NRL that was willing to pay him more than what the Bulldogs were…..not withstanding that he was smack bang in the middle of contract term which none of them would have been willing or able to break.

Now Fonzie, he had more than a few hang-ups, so if you can confirm for me Koala Bear that you can at least eat liver, i’ll concede defeat and we can put this baby to bed.

I must concur with your European comments… the group of 14 … maybe now only 12 maybe up to 18 have control of the worlds best players have a massive influence over world football…

Even football cannot live forever on its past and there is a need to spreads the wealth rather than contain it… the Bowman ruling has transferred the power of football to a handful of clubs.

Also agree your comment about the need to have in the foreseeable future a A-League competition where teams are somewhat equal so as the domestic competition can develop and grow.

there’s toughness and then there’s just plain rough,

there’s the rules and then there’s that contact just bordering the rules,

We know that if soccer players didn’t wear huge whopping shin guards then barely any soccer play would reach age 25 without at least 4 broken legs.
We know that you couldn’t survive 5 mins in Grid Iron without the protective equipment…..largely because the protective equipment of others would become a lethal weapon.

What I can say is that I wouldn’t want to be seeking to head a ball if someone else thought it a smart idea to scissor kick it – - irony, worst example of that I saw was Jeff White of Melbourne{afl} getting a boot in the jaw (he wasn’t trying to head it).

KB -

the AFL draft isn’t so much the issue – - it’s more the trade week that they can’t get right.

The draft provides a clean and structured process as part of the pathway that manages the progression – - usually thru their last year of secondary school. It ensures that we don’t see 10 year olds being signed up by a club on the other side of the world!!
(however, the NSW scholarships for example allow 14 yr olds to be signed onto scholarships – - but, it’s non binding and is just that, a scholarship ‘grant’)
The meat market you may call it – avoids a free for all, which would, be like making the potential star a chip fought over by a flock of seagulls………..(seems I’ve heard that analogy somewhere before??)

Just on your comment of the AFL and NFL I had no idea they had the same rules … Which of the two is the first or second division and in what same country do these leagues play in…? (Hmm … I think you have lost it…)

Now, please tell me what part of the Messrs Crouch and Barry transfers did you not understand…? They have full autonomy to stay or go if they wish by asking for a transfer to another club … there is no salary cap preventing them moving from one club to another during the season within the transfer window. If they wish to go, or if the club seeks to release them, either way, they can transfer from their old club to a new club… The players in question left their old employers on amicable terms as neither was happy with their situation at their old club… No one breaks a contract in English football you either see out your contract or look else where to be transferred to, for an agreed transfer fee set by the clubs… In AFL you do not have that ease of movement during the season because of salary cap restrictions… Some clubs can’t fit a new player under the salary cap and need to tell others to leave or receive less…

Just to point out SBW case he could not get near the same money that the French Rugby club were offering from any NRL club… Don’t you get it..? No NRL club could match the offer… That’s why he stole away like a thief in the night… I don’t personally agree or care… Simply pointing out it was because of a salary cap restriction that no NRL club could match the money offered to him by the French club as a result that’s why he defected…

I hope you understand now the reasons why … as your poor old comrade who is as thick as a brick is still struggling with the complexities of a what is a restrictive trade practice imposed on a player because of a salary cap… That SBW had threatened to take to court; that would have had the greatest ramifications for all codes that impose a salary cap right down to your AFL…

Poor old comrade Kurt with his two only perfect working body parts, his mouth and anal passage… that are interchangeable seemed to have gotten stuck with the crap he has tried to unload on “the Bear” (roar blogger) of a false independent research said he found of a FIFA WC producing no monetary windfall by holding such an event in Australia or elsewhere…

Living in Wally World USA it has certainly played havoc with his comprehension and reasoning of what independent advice that was sought after and commissioned by the Federal Government from Price Waterhouse and partners… A $5billion windfall for Australia… I think he was the one who had claimed that the Dubai AFL games had enormous benefits for Australian business… Far more so than staging the FIFA world cup on Australian soil…. lol

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KB

i work with an Englishman, i’ll be sure to tell him today. In how many countries would EPL be the NUMBER 1 watched sport? When you mention figures of “most watched”, remember that “available” to watch doesn’t necessarily equate to most watched. But regardless, it may very well be the most watched. That doesn’t make it the most popular. In terms of popularity, you must also include numbers of people who are not only indifferent to it, but who actually don’t like it. There’s plenty of them (not me though, i actually enjoy it from time to time). How about people who are fanatical about their sports, to the point say…..of burning effigies, even of their favourite team’s players when something goes amiss? Doesn’t that show a level of popularism that exceeds your normal EPL fan…..rioting thugs duly noted? Anyway, all just goes some way to showing that it was an airy-fairy statement.

and, no, the randomness of playing schedule selection in both the NFL or AFL draws proves neither are contrived.

The Auteur,

yes, i played soccer for four seasons. Went for headers and high balls….once scored from a header. I’m about 5 foot nothing ….doesn’t say much for the opposition does it? I’m the world’s biggest coward (that’s why i argue on the internet)….further proof that playing soccer doesn’t require courage.

Pippinu,

i stand by my comments that it is not a contact sport. That contact occurs, agreed, but it is not integral to the game, and most contact occurs because someone goes outside the rules of the game. Basketball is a similar sport. Yes contact occurs, but that does not make it a contact sport. Marathon runners jostle for position at the start of their race, contact occurs. Doesn’t make running a contact sport. I agree, soccer probably does require more courage than volleyball and tennis, and i agree….so what?

Robbos,

i live in Australia, and don’t often have the time to check in with Germans, Ghanians, Brazilians or Americans (though i do know a lot of Chinese people….they like volleyball and tennis a lot, by the way). I concede that it’s most likely that they’d not be willing to admit that they’re big sissy girls blouses.

MVDave

classic. Ah he doesn’t agree with me…..he must never have played. I know you are, but what am i? As stated above, i actually played for four seasons. Won one comp, had another season where we lost every game, and i scored in total four goals, of which my teammates will happily tell you that every one was a total fluke. Were they meaningful? I once had a female fan from Birrong question my parentage as well as my sexual proclivities. I found that quite meaningful, especially when i noticed the lack of teeth populating her mouth. I once witnessed an opposition player suffer a back-spasm after dry-humping his goal-scoring teammate. Very meaningful indeed, but perhaps not proper.

Koala Bear

you’re the one who stated EPL….that’s EPL…..not me. If you want to go including crowd figures, and changing the criteria, i will too, and i’ve decided i’ll combine the NFL’s figures with the AFL’s. Is that ok with you? You claimed autonomy Koala Bear, not me. As stated, Barry and Crouch are but two examples disproving your autonomy claim. If Barry or any other player broke their contract in the same manner as SBW, they too would have been threatened with legal action. SBW had to fly out in the middle of the etc etc….because he broke his contract. SBW likewise could have left when his contract was over, with no recriminations or bad blood. Happens quite often too. Re Barry, on June 29, how autonomous was he feeling?

Koala Bear, who rates it the best competition in Europe? The Italians? The Spanish? The Germans? Can you provide better examples to back up your argument than quoting MVDave? Can you compare Asian viewing practices of EPL alongside their viewing of cricket? You may very well be right with your figures Koala Bear, but it’s still airy-fairy and subjective; eg it isn’t the most popular competition in my world.

Koala Bear your comments re Crouch, how does any of that show a greater level of autonomy than that for AFL or NRL players? Re SBW and his contract “he could not refuse”. No Koala Bear, you are very wrong. He could have refused. Simple. SBW could have got more money within the NRL, if it was offered. It wasn’t.

“AFL is now closer to Basketball than it ever has been…a game of chip and run.”

Really? When was the last time you went to an AFL game? You can’t watch too many either.

Soccer as a spectacle as having nothing on Aussie Rules, if you’d been to an AFL game in the last half century you might know that.

Redb

But what is appalling is the AFL draft where the junior is purely on display like a lump of meat … A kid born in Melbourne followed Carlton and has no choice in the matter where he starts off his career even though he would rather play for Carlton then the Demons or Port Adelaide… because of a draft pick as one of the first best young kids..

Sorry gotta wash up now… good night all….

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KB

But the bases of this discussion has been on the ELP system for its transparency; first past the post are champions; playing each other twice home and away fixtures; and no salary cap… opposed to the contrived AFL system of who plays who one or three times 8 team finals to find the champions ..

I know the HAL has or will have a simular format next year when it will be easier to get into the finals then to miss them … I find that a lot on nonsense that has been designed by ex AFL administrators … not happy at all Westy… That’s why I love the EPL for what it is…

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KB

Many time’s clubs let payers out of their contracts early to play rugby. Craig Gower and Fraser Anderson are examples. Often players are let out of their contracts to go play in the super league. This is done when the player and the club come to an agreement. However if there is contract the club can hold you to it i.e frank Pritchard but if a player is out of contract he can do whatever he wants to. Something that didn’t come into European soccer till 1995.

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KB