Comments on: Boks v Lions left us all breathless

By: Darryl SA

Darryl SA — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:47:23 +0000

Jerry, my bad. Shame on you Guy Smiley. That’s a losers mentality.

By: Jerry

Jerry — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 04:58:40 +0000

Darryl – I didn’t say that, Guy Smiley did.

By: Nelson

Nelson — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:27:00 +0000

good post guy and i pretty much agree with everything you said. although i do think burger was lucky to stay on the field, i tend to agree with jerry’s sentiment regarding playing agianst 14 men. i even reckon theres a chance if burger was sent off and the lions won, the whole discussion would be completely reversed and people would be criticizing the ref for spoiling the contest. it would have have been an entirely different game and we’ll never know

By: Brad

Brad — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:23:33 +0000

Greg Smith. You are on drugs, Bryce Lawrence did his utmost in the first test to penalise the lions for anything. What kind of game do we have when a prop is penalised for being weaker than his opposition? basically if the boks play samoa they can forget about a contest because the ref will penalise the samoan props at every scrum. no no no no and do not let me get started about the last penalty. Because O’gara misjudged his jump the lions lose a test series? as usual the rugby laws and the IRB tried to ruin the game.

By: Greg Smith

Greg Smith — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:46:47 +0000

To me … this referee mix up has a sinister underbelly.

If Bryce Lawrence isn’t in charge … he isn’t in charge ! Simple.

I think the two touch referee’s had one script and Berdos had another. And Lawrence was anxiously trying to push his script onto Berdos.

Since the 1st Test where Berdos got insulted by Lawrence I thought there was a conflict between the various officials.

Berdos and Lawrence were not on the same page. (I’ve no problem with Berdos, he’s the man in charge. My problem is with Lawrence and the possibility that he thinks he can manipulate the outcome of the game even from the sideline.)

Lawrence was very inconsistent in picking up Lions offences wasn’t he ? I’ve no problem with the Burger card. Lawrence was quick with the YELLOW CARD insistence for Burger BUT when in the first game Matthew Rees’ breach of Law 14(a) Striking or Punching … got nearly nothing, I thought ‘hang on’. If the touch judge didn’t call Bryce Lawrence back for the CLEAR punch… Matthew Rees would have totally escaped. As it is, their was NO citing for this.

If Bryce Lawrence blew the 2nd Test, the Lions would have won. Absolutely no doubt.

By: ohtani's jacket,

ohtani's jacket, — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:27:34 +0000

“What on earth was Bryce Lawrence up to?”

It’s up to the referee to rule on foul play. Lawrence’s job is to signal foul play and report to the ref. It seemed like Berdos misunderstood what his touch judge was telling him and that’s why Lawrence said “at least a yellow.” At least that’s the way it came across to me. Berdos seemed to be heading back onto the pitch to award a penalty and nothing else.

By: Darryl SA

Darryl SA — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:31:49 +0000

“Jerry I reckon about 100% of Lions fans would quite happily take a win over 14 men, no problem whatsoever. The win mattered way more than how it would have been achieved.”

Well I for one think that’s a very sad statement Jerry. I would never want the Boks to win a match playing against 14 men on the field. I’d just never feel like we knew for sure we were the better team. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

By: katzilla

katzilla — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:48:09 +0000

By the way. totally agree with the Brussouw situation, ever since that Crusaders/Cheetahs game hes been on the cards for greatness, probably before then, but until he faced McCaw you weren’t really sure.
I gave PDV more credit then he deserves, I went out of the room for a sec then came back and he was on. Didn’t realise Russouw was injured.
Before the series i thought he’d get a run in the third match if the Boks had it wrapped up, but it seems now he will have a mortgage on the bok 6, now that Burger will be having time off.

By: katzilla

katzilla — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:22:47 +0000

Hold off a bit on Lawrence, its easy to throw stones when you have the benefit of hours of replay footage and various video angles.
But in the heat of the moment he would have seen Burgers Hand pass across the face, and the whole thing would have taken 0.01 of a second. Its hard to establish right away whether it was intentional or damaging. So in hindsight the yellow was appropriate at the time. And now upon review of the footage he gets a stand down period which is also appropriate.

‘NZ or Australia could not do this’

Merely your opinion, many people at the 2000 Bledisloe (100,000+ of them) may disagree.

By: IronAwe

IronAwe — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 07:26:13 +0000

I am a true Southern Hemisphere fan. Never before last night have I barracked for the Lions. I love what they represent, and I love the history, but I am beginning to worry that maybe, like a few have mentioned, there is no room for them in the professional era? Last night I so badly wanted them to win I nearly cried when they lost. It would be so sad to lose something like the Lions. They havn’t won a series in so long, I really thought this year was their year. They seemed to have got everything spot on, except having two games at altitude, not sure if they had a say in this.
I guess at the end of the day though, the Lions proved they were more than competitive and it was a fantastic specticle, and as long as they can remain competitive and entertaining they will always have a place in world rugby.
What infuriated me about this tour was that every sports journo said they didn’t stand a chance against this Boks and that this was going to be a white wash, when their only proof of this seemed to be the example of the last Lions tour.
It is ridiculous to compare this tour against the last one. It’s a completely different team with completely different coaches and management, and if they had just bothered to look at the selected players and coaching staff objectively this year, and the preparation etc they would have known it was going to be a close series. Especially seeing as the Boks were playing together for the first time, and their coach is NO match for McGeechan.

By: True Tah

True Tah — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 07:02:29 +0000

I hope the ARU was watching this game and noting the time the game was played at, i.e. afternoons.

Re: Botha and his boneheaded play, well the Lions really needed to stand up to him, and one man did, shame Andrew Sheridan came on as a replacement, he is the man to sort out Botha, and should start next week.

Was a true test in every sense of the word, those players left nothing on the field, giving their all

By: Hammer

Hammer — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 07:01:13 +0000

Guy – my question was is it really that simple ?

Lawrence reported what he saw clearly to the referee and obviously he then responded within the scope of the question asked to him by the referee … what I’m asking is that all he is permitted to do – once Berdos asked “Penalty or yellow-card” is he bound to respond with a recommendation in that scope … and is that why Lawrence responded with “at least yellow” trying to hint it should be more … I’m speculating and until we get a ref on here to clarify I’m not prepared to hang Lawrence out to dry

If Berdos hasn’t got a grasp of English and couldn’t communicate clearly with his touch judges then his appointment needs to be questioned

By: Jerry

Jerry — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:49:20 +0000

Yeah, it was won and lost on that call – but quite frankly if the only way the Lions could win was against 14 men then that’d a hollow victory in my book. You reckon 100% of Lions fans would happily take a 15 on 14 win – I reckon there’s a fair few Lions fans who’d want a win to be against the best the opposition have to offer.

Bad call aside, I reckon a match with 15 on 14 for 79 minutes would really take away from the occasion and spectacle.

By: Guy Smiley

Guy Smiley — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:22:08 +0000

Jerry I reckon about 100% of Lions fans would quite happily take a win over 14 men, no problem whatsoever. The win mattered way more than how it would have been achieved (unless by foul play). It’s a bit naive to suggest the gentlemanly ethos inherent in rugby extends it’s generosity that far. As for permanent damage you can’t be serious – the game was undoubtedly lost on that one call.

Hammer – Berdos saw nothing and has English as a second language. It was Lawrence’s duty to be crystal clear. Eye-gouging is a mandatory red and the non-decision cost the Lions the game. Simple.

By: Jerry

Jerry — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:54:59 +0000

As regards the non-red for Burger – would Lions fans really want to win vs 14 men and forever wonder whether what would have happened if it was 15 v 15 for the final 70 minutes? A red card early on tends to ruin the spectacle entirely, unfortunately. Burger has been suspended and there was no permanent damage done – surely a win against 14 would be a bit hollow (given we now know that with 15 men on the pitch the Boks won).

By: USRugbyFan

USRugbyFan — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:54:05 +0000

Maybe Lawrence or Berdos didn’t want the thing to be decided by handing out a red card in only the first minute of such an important game?

By: Hammer

Hammer — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:41:05 +0000

“What on earth was Bryce Lawrence up to? There have been a number of articles suggesting the referee was at fault for not sending off Burger but Christoph Berdos did not see the incident – it was entirely up to Lawrence as the officiating witness to recommend a red card …. Granted he will be banned but the damage is done now. Sent off after 30 seconds and the Lions would have won, no question. It was a disgraceful, appalling non-decision by the Kiwi linesman and he should be severely censured – yes he said said ‘at least a yellow’ but that was weak – sorry, yellow of Lawrence not to take appropriate action. Coward.”

Whoa there … before you head off down that track I think we need to know the protocol in these instances – i.e. is it incumbent on the touch judge to make such recommendations or are they only able to firstly report and then respond directly to questions asked by the ref – which from what I’ve seen on numerous occasions seems to be the case.

If that’s so then Lawrence can’t carry the can on this …. granted the ref was unsighted but Lawrence gave him a report of the incident after which the ref posed the question “Penalty or yellow-card” … given Lawrence’s response you could draw a conclusion he was surprised by that question …. Was he able to respond – “no, red card” – that’s what someone who has done his ref’s course needs to answer …

mind you given the video ref’s call in the NZ / Italy game – they’re definitely a law unto themselves so perhaps he should have just said Red …

By: Andystath

Andystath — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:08:35 +0000

Good article Guy.The final statement couldn’t possible adhere to Bakkies Botha, the bloke represents everything that is wrong with SA rugby.