By Mike Tuckerman
July 2nd 2009 @ 12:41am
Asian Champions League battling for respect
Adelaide United's Sasa Ognenovski beats Masato Yamazaki of Gamba Osaka to the ball during the Asian Champions League final match in Adelaide, Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2008. AAP Image/Rob Hutchison
Pohang’s 6-0 thrashing of Newcastle Jets last week may have ended Australian interest in the Asian Champions League, but the competition itself rumbles on towards the final.
All the talk this week has surrounded Luiz Felipe Scolari’s sensational decision to sign on as coach at Uzbek club Bunyodkor, but it hasn’t gone unnoticed elsewhere that two Korean sides have reached the quarter-finals.
Scolari’s return to management might have shocked the football establishment – what with Bunyodkor hardly being a household name (and a dubiously funded one at that) – but it’s not the first time that “Big Phil” has pitched up on exotic shores.
As a player he had a stint at Saudi side Al-Shabab, while early on in his coaching career he enjoyed a successful spell at Kuwaiti side Al Qadsia.
Money that oil-rich clubs like Bunyodkor can splash about might ultimately redress the balance of power in Asian football, but AFC officials will be pleasantly surprised to see two Korean clubs in the final eight.
FC Seoul did things the hard way, beating J. League champions Kashima Antlers on penalties to book a quarter-final showdown with surprise package Umm Salal of Qatar.
The Korean club received the rub of the green from Australian referee Ben Williams – who sent off Kashima playmaker Mitsuo Ogasawara just after the hour mark – but full credit to the capital outfit for triumphing in a nervy shoot-out.
I spent some time at the upwardly mobile FC Seoul earlier this year, but Pohang’s progression to the final eight comes as somewhat of a surprise.
The North Gyeongsang-based side are not regarded as one of the stronger teams in Korean football, although they did lift a shock K-League title in 2007.
Nevertheless the Steelers have traded in their usually mediocre league form for a decent run on the continent, and their reward is a match-up with none other than Big Phil’s Bunyodkor.
Scolari’s appointment is bound to make headlines in the European press, but it will take much more for those in Europe to take the Asian Champions League seriously.
Last April, ESPN Soccernet columnist Jon Carter penned a piece entitled “ACL facing uphill struggle against Europe” that I couldn’t quite get my head around.
In fairness to Carter, he made some decent points.
But it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that a competition has flaws when it ensures that participants lose money, or where refereeing standards fluctuate so wildly.
However, what irritated me most about Carter’s inferrence was that because the Asian Champions League wasn’t as prominent as its European equivalent, it was hardly worth playing.
I may get roasted for saying it, but it’s a typically English sentiment that I’ve encountered elsewhere.
When Manchester United put five past Gamba Osaka in the FIFA Club World Cup last December, some members of the English press snickered that it was proof that Asian football simply wasn’t up to scratch.
But who expected Gamba to beat Manchester United? And why weren’t the English press talking about Gamba being the first team to score three goals against United in months?
If Gamba are the epitome of a poor football side, I’d hate think what these guys made of West Brom.
At any rate, the Osakans were knocked out by the team I tipped months ago as one of the favourites to lift the Asian crown.
Kawasaki Frontale will go into their quarter-final clash with Nagoya Grampus as favourites, and the AFC are no doubt hoping that the Kanagawa side reach a final played practically on their doorstep.
Holding a one-off final is a mistake, but a National Stadium in Tokyo swarming with Kawasaki Frontale fans might convince those in Europe that the Asian Champions League is a worthwhile tournament after all.
They should consider it so to begin with.
It might not be world class, but at least it’s ours.
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Ben Somerford said | July 2nd 2009 @ 8:19am | Report comment
I, for one, am loving the AFC Champions League and love the new format, I think it’s breathed new life into it. The quarter-finals draw the other night threw up some interesting permutations too, with the two Japanese sides left in the draw, facing one another, which hurts the AFC’s ‘probable” hope of at least one Japanese club in the final in Tokyo. For me though, I think the Saudi club Al-Ittihad Jeddah, look strong and I fancy them to win it.
Andrew said | July 2nd 2009 @ 8:57am | Report comment
I really don’t mind the 1 game match rather than two legs.
Sure two legged finals are more fair but I find one of finals more exciting. The teams are playing for a win (not a nice result away). If the best team doesn’t win it is that really the end of the world, there’s always next year. It’s a much better spectacle for the casual fan and TV fan as they don’t have to commit too two nights and they get instant satisfaction. I wouldn’t suggest pandering to such for a matured football market but the ACL is still trying to gain momentum.
I enjoyed Sydney FC’s and Adelaide’s campaign and I think the new format is an improvement but there are a lot of areas that I find frustrating. A video review committee that reviews games and gives out penalties for diving and time wasting would be top of my wish list.
The team based in the west that put out a sub par team to concentrate on domestic success) should have cost their federation all their automatic qualifying spots.
Looking forward to the next time an Aussie team with any stability or form next gets into the comp …. looking at you Melbourne
MVDave said | July 2nd 2009 @ 8:59am | Report comment
Australian interest will be revived when Melbourne Victory commence playing in March 2010 with home games at their new 32,000 seat rectangular stadium. If Victory and Adelaide can both reach the knockout stage the tournament, in its new format, will get a huge boost here.
Midfielder said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:09am | Report comment
Like all things it will take time… I think waht it needs as towser often says is 5 or 6 strong leagues … Japan are out in front by a long way .. but I think Australian are not as far behind as many think … Like all things it needs time to grow..
GeneralAshnak said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:11am | Report comment
The ACL has been a wonderful competition, I sadly never even knew it existed until the HAL was involved with it. But the competition reminds me a lot of the FA Cup. The teams throw up constant surprises. No one after all seriously expected AUFC to make the final, yet along the way they defeated the champions of 4 other leagues – quite convincingly as well. I connect more with the ACL than other comps, probably because AUFC have been in it twice now and will be again next year – first HAL team to make 3 ACLs BTW. I have been seriously disapointed with the level of coverage the competition receives in Australia though, you actually have to go out of your way to find out what is happening, but I can find out about the UCL just by opening the paper. Heres hoping that we get a non J League champion this year! And I really want a HAL team (you can guess which one) in the final next year!
Pippinu said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:21am | Report comment
MV’s participation will bring much needed credibility to the comp.
Towser said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:27am | Report comment
MIke
No suprise to me regarding the English attitude to “foreign” football. I grew up with it. Born to rule in football(& in other areas). Except the reality is they dont. England may have invented football,but they didnt create it. The EPL is dominated by foreigners.
Annoying yes. Wind & piss yes.
Also give me Gamba rather than any team in the EPL outside the top few teams. Midfielder mentioned the 5 or 6 strong leagues in Asia. I firmly believe this is the way to go. Concentrate all the best players in Asia into these leagues & theres a chance the ACL can produce quality football maybe not ever ManU,Barca level but certainly just below it.
It makes sense also economically as there are not that many rich Asian nations who can afford to spend spare cash on the relative frivolity of upholding a Professional football League.
Interest will grow here as it grows throughout Asia. Lets face it the Koreans have yet to be convinced(judging by crowds) & football has been an estabilished traditional sport,mainstream much longer than here.
GeneralAshnak said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:38am | Report comment
Pips – based on results in the ACL from HAL teams I assume you actually mean that AUFC will give the comp much needed credibility? Or is not making it past the group stage the best you think MV is capable of? ;P
Koala Bear said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:41am | Report comment
“All the talk this week has surrounded Luiz Felipe Scolari’s sensational decision to sign on as coach at Uzbek club Bunyodkor, but it hasn’t gone unnoticed elsewhere that two Korean sides have reached the quarter-finals.”
Wow Scolari to coach in the ACL … Sensational is right, the right word; this league is really going to be a premier competition in Asia with such big names coming into it to coach… What we need now in Australia is to rise to the challenge to try to lure some big names to coach and to assist if only on a short term advisory capacity… Our Australian clubs need to inject more professionalism and ambition with better planing into our Australian clubs to make a greater impact and inroads into the ACL…
It was very disappointing from an Australian perspective when coaches MacKinna and GVE Newcastle and CCM respectfully bowed out; mainly due to their lack of experience of how to manage a team when out of season during ACL participation… This has to be addressed immediately by the FFA with some help in finding ways to keep these teams match fit during out of season, non-activity
This Asian comp is surly the greatest prize of all in our part of the world in any code’s club football and should be treated with greater respect from all Australians… I can see this happening when SFC finally get a second crack at it after this years comp… Can’t wait… PS and GCU FC..
~~~~~~~~
KB
Ben of Phnom Penh said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:52am | Report comment
The one off final is a mistake as the whole concept of an empty stadium for a final frightens me. The AFC will be hoping that a Japanese side makes the final in order to fill the stands, as if two Uzbek sides make the final then it may make for a bleak backdrop to what would be an exciting game.
As for Europe, who cares? We have the ACL in a federation that is full of developing nations with a geography and demography unmatched by any of the other federations. Each year we get stronger and eventually we’ll have a broader range of leagues that are comparable to the better leagues in other federations. Remember that Adelaide were defeated by Gamba and then went on to defeat the African champions. We’re not that bad and good showing in 2010 by Asian nations will help underscore this.
Midfielder said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:56am | Report comment
Papa & Tow
Papa excellent point on Scolari would love to have him at the Mariners…
Tow .. your past threads and posts on the need for 5 to 6 to 8 strong leagues comes to mind … what’s your take on where we are at present…
Pippinu said | July 2nd 2009 @ 10:02am | Report comment
General
now you know we’ve been over this many, many times.
Personally, I don’t see copping a 5-0 shellacking as something to be proud of.
However, I retain much pride in the fact that we were able to lose 4-3 against the same mob (and were actually in front on two seperate occasions), and both Arch and Carlos weren’t even playing!!
It’s a classic case of the two best teams in the comp meeting very early in the piece – it was a tragedy for the football loving public the world over.
Kazama said | July 2nd 2009 @ 10:05am | Report comment
Agree on both points Ben – but I’ll comment more on your first point. The AFC have shot themseleves in the foot by moving to a one-off, neutral venue format. It will turn the most important club game in Asia into a farce. It also robs the players of playing in front of a packed stadium, and it robs a great number of fans from being able to see their team play in a continental final. Even though we lost, it was a wonderful experience to be able to have the final of a major club tournament here in Adelaide, and for me personally to see the trophy presented was awesome too.
Just because it works in Europe doesn’t mean it will work here. We need to go our own way, and reward the fans and players by giving them the best finale to a tournament possible. Right now the AFC isn’t doing that.
Kazama said | July 2nd 2009 @ 10:10am | Report comment
The problem with your argument Pip is that you’ve conveniently forgotten that you lost to Chonburi, their only win of the tournament. That and the fact you only won twice yourselves, both at home.
Pippinu said | July 2nd 2009 @ 10:21am | Report comment
Kaz
in 15 years time you’ll be saying to your young kids: I still remember AU’s most famous moment in their illustrious history. We came up against a red hot Gamba side – they gave us a 5-0 shellacking – I remember it like it was only yesterday, gee they did this city proud…shortly after that, MV defeated us for the 10th time that season, including a 6-0 semi final white wash gee they did this city proud. We’ve never been able to reach those same heights again….
Ryan Steele said | July 2nd 2009 @ 10:35am | Report comment
I don’t know why so many people consider Pohang’s progression as a “shock.” They’ve been in excellent form, lately, and the league table is never something to use as that team’s yard stick. Domestically, they’ve always focused on the FA Cup more than anything else.
Newcastle haven’t exactly been extraordinary, either, so I would have expected people to have forseen that result a long time ago. I had actually predicted 5-0, so Pohang even exceeded my expectations.
Pip, let’s not forget that Melbourne weren’t playing game after game, at that point. And you should keep in mind Adelaide’s rematch at the Club World Cup, if you want to criticise.
I was disappointed to see Kashima knocked out of the tournament – there must be something about Ogasawara – but I’ll be putting all my attention into Pohang and Nagoya, from this point onwards. Dragan’s return as Nagoya’s coach has been amazing for the team, and their game against Kawasaki should be fantastic. Pohang’s a bit unlucky to be playing Bunyodkor, though. Hopefully they can continue their form, into the semi-finals.
Mike Tuckerman said | July 2nd 2009 @ 10:46am | Report comment
Compared to the resources available at some of the bigger Korean clubs (FC Seoul, Suwon, Seongnam etc), I think some people were surprised that it was Pohang that have done so well out of all the K-League clubs, Ryan. But let’s not forget that Jeonbuk Hyundai Motors won the Champions League in 2006!
Ben of Phnom Penh said | July 2nd 2009 @ 11:16am | Report comment
Thai Farmers Bank won the Asian Club Championship a couple of times in the early nineties, how things have changed.
A key for the ACL success is strong domestic support for the competition. It is starting to enter the lives of Australian football supporters and no doubt crowds will reflect that next season as both Adelaide and Melbourne fans have tasted the competition before, want more and more importantly are somewhat more aware of the opposition. No longer are they just quirky teams from countries we’ve only ever seen in an atlas but teams whose coaches we discuss, whose players we’ve seen tussle with the Socceroos, whose domestic form we may have some understanding of.
This needs to happen in a number of key countries (Japan, Korea, China, Uzbekistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia) for the support for the competition to generate interest in the minds of the broader sporting public. Adelaide went some way to achieving this in their last outing. When countries like Indonesia, with their great support for domestic football, start putting out more competitive teams then we will see a rapid broadening of support for and interest in the ACL.
Fulls stadiums create a media spectacle, and with that comes interest from the casual punter. Getting these people interested in ACL results when their local team is not playing is the measure. Then we’ve made it.
Towser said | July 2nd 2009 @ 11:40am | Report comment
Midfielder
Where are we at presently. Good question. Lets take the most prominent leagues as I see it only 4 stand out.Ours,China,Japan South Korea. Theres some money flying around in the Middle East but I dont see Strong professional leagues using Japan/Korea as yardsticks. China could be but theyve had internal(some may say corruption) problems. But Chinas potential in football is enormous. India is also has great potential,but the money is going into cricket. The AFC need a lot of effort there. Dont see Uzbekistan (despite Scolari) having a big league maybe only ever one or two clubs there.
The Middle East has enormous potential as a group League given the Petro dollars available but individually all nations seem too small. Iranians love football but are very insular to outside views(been there) would have to change dramatically ,politically to integrate into a broader professional set up. So setting up professional football in Asia has a myriad of problems not seen in Europe,where historically Football has a long professional tradition in most countries. This has resulted in an evolving hierachy where the biggest countries with the biggest economies have the elite leagues(Except Russia of course for obvious reasons). The best players in Europe graduate to these leagues & now they suck up the best of the rest of the world. Asia hasnt had time to develop this historical football hierachy,so needs to give Asian football development deep thought in order to produce quality leagues. To fast track that it means following the historical leads of Europe & having a few big Leagues for the elite in our case,primarily Asian players. I’ve got no problem with Vision Nepal or whatever but some of these countries for the various reasons I’ve stated will never have big professional football Leagues. I suppose the AFC have made a start in this respect by setting up a set of criteria of professionalism that countries have to meet in order to participate in the ACL. Thats fine but improvement (for the ACL)will only happen if the best Asian players are in it(Thai bloke to Melbourne). Also then attracting better players from around the world. We want situations where players in the rest of the world see more value in the A/J League than the English championship or second division Germany(such as Josh Kennedy has done) It may happen naturally as in Europe in which case ,time itself will take care of forming the Big Asian Leagues. So I suppose to answer the question were at the embryonic stage of the ACL as a professional football comp. I think the AFC have put thought into its development,but not enough in my book in recognising that like Europe they cant all be the EPL or Serie A,La LIga,Bundesliga.
Kazama said | July 2nd 2009 @ 11:46am | Report comment
Pippinu – that you’ve pictured me with kids suggests how badly you’ve missed the mark there, mate. I have to find someone to have them with first! I “get on the scoresheet” about as regualrly as Ricky Diaco did for your lot.
And I would rather say that we made the final and lost to a top team than have to tell them that the furtherest we ever got in Asia was going out in the group stage after getting rolled by some mob from Thailand.
Getting back to the serious discussion…
Ben – I think Adelaide’s two years of participation in the ACL have gone some ways as to broadening the horizons of football fans down here. Probably more so the second campaign, when we had the honour of taking on some of the bigger teams in the region. Conversations I used to have even two years ago with my mates revolved around EPL and A-League. Now J. League and K-League have started to enter the discussions, albeit not to the degree of EPL. People just want to know at this point what sort of players are there, what the standard is like, etc. I think it’s a sign that people are becoming interested in what is going on in the rest of the region. This can only be a positive thing for ACL, and I hope that the ethusiasm I sense from my friends translates into the wider football public and we get some good crowds for our group games next year.
dasilva said | July 2nd 2009 @ 11:58am | Report comment
It’s a shame that the only time an asian team will meet a european team in a competitive match would be in the club world championship and they just have one match against the european champions where they have very faint hope of winning.
I honestly think that if there was a global champions league, there will be far less eurosnobs as I believe that japanese and other asian clubs can give a lot of the european sides a run for the money. I’ll back Gamba Osaka over the likes of Celtic and Rangers anyday.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | July 2nd 2009 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
It will be interesting indeed to see how Melbourne go next season given they have the experience of participating in the competition in the past. Adelaide have shown that having some previous experience with logistical issues and player management when playing away in Asia is vital.
I agree with the title of the piece though believe it is the domestic respect that we need to garner. The inter-federation respect will follow.
Robbos said | July 2nd 2009 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
Pip,
MV is the best credential side in the short history of the HAL, as mentioned they have won many of the trophies on offer. No 1.
However, when it comes to the ACL, MV is 4th best credential side from the A-league in it’s short history.
What Adelaide did last year, after beating a Japanese team that finished ahead of Gamba in the J-League, they then beat a Rivaldo led Uzbek side to make the final.
Newcastle also made it thru the to the next round, even though the rules had changed are also ahead of MV.
While SFC, who like MV lost out in the group stages to the eventual winners, well at least SFC did not lose to Urawa reds either home or away & only lost out on goal differences. You will find that even SFC with it’s poor record after the first season in the A-League has a better record than MV in the ACL.
Of course all this can change next year, then you can brag, but not now.
Koala Bear said | July 2nd 2009 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
” I’ll back Gamba Osaka over the likes of Celtic and Rangers anyday.”
Das,
Yep, I would agree 100% with you on that one…
~~~~~~~
KB
GeneralAshnak said | July 2nd 2009 @ 1:39pm | Report comment
Pips: You know I cannot take you seriously when it comes to ACL form; you are just trying to get a rise out of me! Not going to happen any time soon
Great points with regard to the professional development of the various leagues around Asia, as our leagues improve and the competition gets both fiercer and more knowledgeable we will start to see the respect of other federations begin to grow. Except maybe in UEFA, the eurosnobs will take quite some time to acknowledge any real improvement in Asia – sometimes I think they just consider us to be a slightly larger version of Oceania…
Roger said | July 2nd 2009 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
The ACL is an awesome competition, which I am proud to say that we are finally a part of.
It may not be up to the same standard as the Euro Champions League… but it is only a matter of time.
Asian Football has come such a long way over the past decade or so, with a number of respectable emerging national teams and leagues. If I were European, I would be very afraid.
Midfielder said | July 2nd 2009 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
GeneralAshnak
Good point re the eurosnobs … I asked once at training one night what league would you watch … this is on the basic that the A-League is crap.. generally Scotland, Greece, in fact most leagues outside, England, Spain, Italy, Germany with France & Holland acceptable…. but even then a match between Hull & West Ham … was nothing to get excited about … my take many want only Champions League quality & standards .. meaning outside the top say 20 clubs in the world they seem to consider not up to standard..
whiskeymac said | July 2nd 2009 @ 2:06pm | Report comment
Adelaide’s effort to reach the final, Urawa v Sydney and MV-Gamba were great games* and more than showed the interest in watching the different teams and styles that there are in Asia, and, on the whole the standard has been quite good. certainly the top teams can produce some crisp passing and movement which is on a par with a lot of the middling euro stuff. One thing I like about Asia is that a lot of the teams and players are unknown quantities for me still – in europe I always see the same big 8 teams there or thereabouts and the teams know each other.
Maybe one of the problems is how the game is broadcast (it just feels amateurish at times) and or the crowds (which wont improve w/o better marketing). When comparing a game from say (at one end of the spectrum to the other) the EPL and Asia the crowds/ atmosphere can appear woeful. IMO this also makes the game feel amateurish – outside of a few exceptions from Japan and MV (maybe some in the middle east but i aint seen them yet). Will that ever change? Hopefully. part of the attraction in footbal is the vibrancy generated from the crowds – if it looks and sounds like a defunct pre-season cup game it becomes less interesting for the neutral. Is it why the MV and SFC games register longer than the NJ or CCM games? Maybe. I hope that the marinators get some taiko drums going one season – or a viking horn…. something to help generate atmosphere in the crowd and on the TV =)
(*as were Perisik, Chonburi, Pohang, ACL final and the entire CCM campaign games were entertaining for some of the less than generous rival supporters and doomsayers)
Ryan Steele said | July 2nd 2009 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
In terms of resources, you do have a point, Mike. And for that, they were also very fortunate to have a home fixture for the round of 16.
I do doubt, however, that Pohang will be the most successful club, despite my lack of surprise in their success to this date – FC Seoul are more likely to progress to the semi-finals, than the Steelers. I can’t see them beating a Scolari-led on aggregate. Same goes against FC Seoul, for the semis.
It’s looking like a Nagoya – Bunyodkor final, to me. That would be an exciting fixture.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | July 2nd 2009 @ 2:48pm | Report comment
Nagoya v Bunyodkor….. now you are talking, Ryan. I’d be glued to the set for that one (with Jesus making an appearance perhaps)
Koala Bear said | July 2nd 2009 @ 6:47pm | Report comment
Midfielder,
It may be time to look at realigning the HAL season more closely to the Japanese and Sth Korean seasons to match them in match fitness… Maybe a later finish to the HAL or a much earlier start to the HAL season … I don’t really know … But Newcastle and CCM were up against it and never really were going to get past the Sth Koreans with such a long layoff… This is a major problem that the HAL clubs will always face until we can resolve it somehow… What is the answer…? I’m not sure but we need to find away to keep match fitness between these sort of non-active football moments…
~~~~~~
KB
Midfielder said | July 2nd 2009 @ 10:04pm | Report comment
Papa
That’s not a bad idea … my reading of the tea leafs is the FFA are not quite prepared to take on the AFL & NRL head to head at this stage.. They (FFA) are more concerned about laying down the foundations of a broad based national domestic competition, with a five month window (Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb) when they have little competition… the push back further into the AFL & NRL season this year with the 27 rounds will be interesting to watch…
Its a difficult call as you said … maybe and this is pulled of of thin air as I was writing this reply is the FA cup style competition if started during late March or early April should keep most A-Leagues sides playing for a few weeks.. The competition may not be as intense but the state and association teams would throw everything at them…
NUFCMVFC said | July 21st 2009 @ 7:43pm | Report comment
I think the ACL is heading in the right direction, doesen’t help when you have some ridiculously low crowd numbers
Need to move to a two legged round of 16 + a two legged final, a one legged final won’t work in Asia