By Greg Smith
July 2nd 2009 @ 12:03am
Loading ...South Africa an outcast, UK to host 2015 RWC
Rugby union is a peculiar business. I don’t know if football, cricket and others have the same problems, but as a person with an aversion for ‘the establishment’ in general, I’m sick of the ‘old school ties’ set up of the IRB.
Who wants to sound like a constant moaner? But if you’re a Springbok supporter, that’s what the IRB seems intent to force you to. Constant gripes.
The list of snubs and ‘injustices’ is long, and I don’t want to go into all that now, but what I can use as another example of an IRB ‘kick-in-the-proverbials’ for South Africa is the hosting of the Rugby World Cup.
South Africa will not host the RWC until 2023. No matter how you look at it. That hurts!
The interval between hostings of a RWC in Africa stretches to a record 28 years: 1995 – 2023. Thank goodness the IRB is a intent on developing the sport internationally!
The European block (England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and France) host or co-host the RWC every alternate event.
The IRB has announced that England has pretty much bagged the 2015 RWC, although it was due to South Africa if you think about it reasonably.
The UK has hosted 53 RWC games between 1991 and 2007, while South Africa has only hosted the 1995 event (30 games). By 2023, England will have hosted double (60+) the number of RWC games South Africa has.
South Africa is a rugby union outcast. Rugby belongs to the old school, old world ‘Eurozone’. Probably forever.
South Africa should follow Australia’s Aussie Rules example. Is it time for Africa Rules?
Going to the Waratahs v Brumbies blockbuster at ANZ Stadium, Saturday 24 April? If you're keen to meet up with other Roarers, register you interest and we'll keep you informed on the place to meet. Register now.
Get Australia's best Rugby opinion emailed daily.
Like this content? Buzz it up!
Free Email updates:
Our daily emails are only sent if there is content for the sport or that author. You can subscribe to multiple daily emails; or get the daily Roar email with all our content in it. We value privacy. More...
(24)
My favourite player of all time came from Ainslie. I just don’t think you see the value of building a fourth strong 2nd tier league using the QAFL as the base....
Viscount Crouchback said | July 2nd 2009 @ 2:46am | Report comment
Poppycock.
The IRB is a splendid organisation. You ought to count your blessings that the old school chaps are still in charge of rugger because, if they weren’t, you would witness ghastly corruption on a FIFA scale.
I applaud the England 2015 decision, but I hope that the IRB doesn’t become too obsessed with financial returns. It would be completely intolerable if the smaller parts of the rugger Empire – e.g. New Zealand – were to be denied hosting rights merely because of their small markets.
Love for the game should count for more than the size of one’s economy.
MVDave said | July 2nd 2009 @ 8:44am | Report comment
IRB has nothing on FIFA with its 200 plus members. England, the spiritual home of football, has held one World Cup in 80 years and will be 90 years by 2018, the next time its up for grabs. Australia has never held it, neither has Holland, Portugal, China, and until next year any African country. Makes SA ‘plight’ of one Rugby WC in 28 years seem not unreasonable…although you are right Britain seems to hols it evry other tournament
At least you will have the World Cup next year to enjoy, the biggest show on the planet.
pothale said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:44am | Report comment
Ireland hasn’t hosted it yet either. We feel very put upon compared to Britain and South Africa. We got thrown a bone of a match or two – and that’s it.
‘Snot fair.
Sniffle !!
CronullaKiwi said | July 2nd 2009 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
I am personally dissapointed. Soley from a supporters point of view I would like to have seen it go to SA. RWC ‘95 was the best world cup and another one there would have been awesome.
Bay35Pablo said | July 2nd 2009 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
Well, SAF was never going to host 1997 or 1991, so compare apples and apples.
Having said that, I am in complete agreement. This “one for you, one for me, one for you, two for me” approach is bollocks. Although only a limited number of countries play the game, this cosy cartel of guaranteeing every 2nd one for the 5 Nations and divvying the games up is a joke. it is everything that is wrong with the IRB and the administration.
Japan should and will get 2019. After that perhaps Argentina, and SAF, before we go back to the Frozen Isles.
I don’t want to think about when Australia will get it again. We’ve had it twice in 16 years, so on that basis I’ll probably get to see it with any grandkids the kids I don’t have yet give me!!!
pothale said | July 2nd 2009 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
Well, Pablo, that’s twice more than Ireland have had it. Since 2015 and ‘19 are gone, and they’ll have to give it to SANZAR again in ‘23 and some other non-Top 10 in ‘26, I might get a chance to see it being hosted for the first time by Ireland from my nursing home bed in 2029. 20 years should give us enough time to build the stadia.
Bay35Pablo said | July 2nd 2009 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
Pothale, Irish rugby has come on leaps and bounds since professionalism came in. This with the strength (until recently) of the Irish economy mean that IMHO the next Home nations RWC should be in Ireland.
Besides which, I need an excuse to visit again ….
Liam Ryan said | July 2nd 2009 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
You make no mention whatsoever of the fact that RWCL has make the fantastic decision to recommend that Japan is to host in 2019.
This omission does, in fact, make you sound like the “constant moaner” you cite, only interested in the possibility of your own country hosting.
Virgil said | July 2nd 2009 @ 3:12pm | Report comment
When is Scotland going to get a bloody go??
Greg Smith said | July 2nd 2009 @ 3:48pm | Report comment
I’m happy for Japan … don’t get me wrong but look:
1. 4 superpowers within international rugby , Oz, Nz, SA, UK
2. All the above, excluding SA, have hosted or co-hosted the RWC twice already (NZ has 2011, their 2nd)
South Africa is the TOTAL outcast if you consider it’s status and size in the sport.
Bay35Pablo said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:10pm | Report comment
Greg, UK a superpower? Who are you talking about? England? If so, I disagree. They have been an also ran for most of the last 22 years except for 2003 when they had a once in a generation peak.
Again, SAF weren’t even eligible for 1987 and 1991, so you can hardly complain you didn’t get them. However, I agree you should get another within 5 cycles of 1995 (i.e. by 2015) which hasn’t happened. Blames the Euros for hogging them.
Ian Noble said | July 2nd 2009 @ 6:42pm | Report comment
As an Englishman I was hoping Italy would have the opportunity.
Frankly I get a bit fed up of others complaining about England when all they have to offer is hot air. The reason for the IRB awarding England the RWC, if ratified by the IRB ciouncil is financial. The IRB know that the profits from RWC2011 will be nowhere near RWC2007 and they need to play the safe card to have the financial resources to develope the game worldwide. England’s submission offers them that opportunity to potentially beat the profits for RWC2007., the infrastructure is there, hotels, iconic stadia, transport with ease of access from all over Europe, enthusiatic local support who will turn up to watch all the games, excellent media facilaties et al; really a no brainer.
I am pleased that Japan have RWC2019, IMO I was disappointed they lost out in the pitch for RWC2011.
Greg Smith said | July 2nd 2009 @ 11:01pm | Report comment
So basically … South Africa has to suffer because New Zealand can’t make a fist of it, financially speaking ?
Oh dear… that’s going to go down well in South Africa ! Kiwi’s cost us the 2006 FIFA World Cup already !
Although, I personally am swelling with gloating over our ’sacrifice’ for New Zealand, now we only need to send a team of South African coaching experts to help the flailing AB’s out … it’s awfully drafty up here on the moral highroad !
pothale said | July 3rd 2009 @ 3:11am | Report comment
South Africa should be happy they got two World Cup finals – it’s time they allowed others to share in the spoils.
Suffer? Don’t make me laugh.
Fuzz said | July 3rd 2009 @ 6:37am | Report comment
Up there on the Moral highground….. I think it’s time to wake up Greg and come back to reality. Your sacrifice got New Zealand the world cup…
I agree that the British nations should not be awarded the RWC so frequently, however I don’t think Ireland should be included in this group as they are an independant country unlike Wales and Scotland who are really just provinces.
The rainbow republic has had a crack it’s about time the IRB / RWCL started taking the tournament elsewhere to grow the game Italy 2015, Japan 2019, Argentina 2023 USA or Canada 2027. I
Greg Smith said | July 3rd 2009 @ 4:59pm | Report comment
@ Fuzz – ‘the rainbow republic has had a crack’ ???? ONE crack ! (Oz, NZ, UK x2) ?
So… ok. Some perspective. South Africa has a massive rugby union market (probably bigger than Oz, Nz & UK combined).
Now explain why South Africa is the outcast ? Is is not (as everyone maintains) because the IRB has a certain bias in favour of these countries: Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales, France, NZ and Australia ?
In a just world :
2011 – New Zealand
2015 – South Africa
2019 – England
2023 – Japan
Although ! Considering 2023 is the Bi-Centennial of Rugby Union (1823-2023)… and that South Africa is the William Webb Ellis team of the last 200 years … I’ll settle for South Africa hosting the 2023 RWC(for the greater good)… and maximize harvesting the plaudits.
Ian Noble said | July 3rd 2009 @ 8:16pm | Report comment
Fuzz
Wales and Scotland are bigger than NZ in population, and I wouldn’t wish to be in the same room if you suggested to a bunch of Scots or Welsh that they are provinces of England.
Greg
Look at the pathetic turnout by Boks fans for the pre-test games v Lions. If SA is as mad about rugby as you suggest then Boks would at least match the Lions fans in numbers. The RFU have a programme to sell 400,000 tickets for RWC2015, more than RWC2007.
I really don’t understand your contention that SA is an outcast. It is the first time that England has hosted RWC on it’s own and it is probable that SA will have it’s time again. Post the FIFA WC, it will have the stadia although my personal preference is for Italy before many others.
Ben J said | July 3rd 2009 @ 8:36pm | Report comment
Ian Noble
I know very few people that could justify to themselves to pay R250 to see a understrength provincial team take on a relatively unknown group of players from the NH. A top flight Super 14 game with all the stars could be seen for about 10 Pounds so the public felt ripped off by the prices. Close to a 100 Pounds for a Test is just not cricket. That is the reason for the low turnout. Also, the games were poorly advertised and the fact that few Boks of any kind played just took the fizz out of it.
True Tah said | July 3rd 2009 @ 8:37pm | Report comment
I was also hoping Italy would get a crack at 2015 as well, at least you can get a decent feed there, unlike England.
The whole thing about the Home Nations is that they prostitute their votes to get a few games. That really p***ses me off. I can see Ireland going it alone, if they get the GAA onside. England could too if they got the FA onside as well. Scotland should never host the world cup.
The whole thing about giving it to NZ misses the point that this is probably the last time they will ever host the world cup. Im still struggling to think where tourists will stay in NZ?
I hope Argentina makes a bid to host it one day – that would be a world cup to visit. Hopefully we will also see one in the US in my lifetime.
Ian Noble said | July 3rd 2009 @ 9:08pm | Report comment
Ben
I thought the Boks had been waiting since 1997 to beat the Lions so I am surprised by the poor turnout, presumably the true rugby fan had enough notice to turn out. Ticket prices in the UK are similar and fans will turn out particularly if it is once in 12 years. The true rugby fan would also know the players in the NH, perhaps it is indicative of an arrogance in SA and elsewhere who are blinkered to anything that happens outside their own sphere.
TT
The main reason why the Wallabies and others want to play more tests in the UK is because they are profitable tours and help their home unions pay the bills. Frankly I am getting a little bored with always playing the SH nations every year. I was pleased the RFU agreed to play a test v Argentina at Old Trafford and all the receipts going to Argentina, I don’t see any of the SH nations doing the same.
NZ had the 1987 RWC and frankly are going to struggle in RWC2011, perhaps as Scotland or Wales would do if they had the RWC. Argentina, States, Portugal/Spain and Russia would be good future choices. You may query Russia, but they have put forward a bid to be part of the IRB 7s world series. If 7’s becomes an Olympic then the opportunities for other venues will increase significantly.
Midfielder said | July 3rd 2009 @ 10:36pm | Report comment
Sorry for the length but an interesting comparison to football..
http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/football/have-no-fear-rainbow-nation-will-host-a-colourful-and-historicworld-cup/2009/06/29/1246127478434.html
Have no fear, Rainbow Nation will host a colourful and historic World Cup
Michael Cockerill
June 30, 2009
THE only real worry ahead of next year’s World Cup is a burst eardrum from the now-infamous vuvuzelas. Other than that, South Africa will host a memorable tournament. Different, yes. But magical all the same.
Ever since the Rainbow Nation won hosting rights in 2004, the rest of the world has doubted it could pull it off. Twice, unofficially, Australia volunteered to step in. And there have been times when even FIFA has wondered whether its leap of faith might have been misguided. Thankfully, rightfully, the mandarins in Zurich held their nerve. They have been rewarded.
The Confederations Cup, which culminated in yesterday’s riveting final in Johannesburg, was a triumph of faith over adversity. As a test event, things could hardly have gone better, so rest assured, the World Cup will be played in South Africa in 2010.
From Limpopo in the north, across the high veld, and down to the Cape, nine cities will put their best foot forward. For many fans, particularly those willing to embrace this endlessly fascinating country, it will be the experience of a lifetime.
Africa’s first World Cup will also be the world’s first black World Cup. For a sport run by whites but loved and played by so many blacks, this is particularly poignant. In Australia, our knowledge, and connection, with South African sport has historically been based on rugby and cricket, the sports of choice for the minority white population. Much less is known about the sport of choice for the vast black population, football. The World Cup should change all that.
A few days ago, I was on Robben Island, being shown around the prison made famous by Nelson Mandela’s incarceration. The only playing ‘field’ had rugby posts at either end. But it was football which helped empower the 1400 inmates during the darkest days of the 1960s and ’70s. Our guide, like all guides, was a former inmate. But also a former goalkeeper, who had the scars from a knee reconstruction suffered while playing on Robben Island’s pock-marked ‘pitch’, to prove it. “There were no white prisoners here, so football was the only game we wanted to play,” he said.
Indeed the film More Than Just a Game, released 18 months ago, tells the powerful story of the Makana Football Association, a three-tier competition set up in 1966 by the prisoners after a long lobbying campaign helped by the International Red Cross. Mandela, and other leading political prisoners kept in isolation, were denied the pleasure of playing or watching, but were kept informed by a secret communication system.
“It was another way of survival,” recalls a former prisoner, Anthony Suze. “In a situation that sought to undermine us, it gave us hope. It is amazing to think a game that people take for granted all around the world was the very same game that gave a group of prisoners their sanity.”
Mandela might have lost his playing career, but he has never lost his love of football. Mandela was instrumental in convincing FIFA to take the World Cup to South Africa, and just a few days ago he hosted the Bafana Bafana ahead of their Confederations Cup semi-final against Brazil, the warmth of his greeting clear to see. Tata knows better than anyone what the game means to his fellow indigenous South Africans. After all, he once lived in Soweto.
It is in Soweto where the pearl of South Africa’s World Cup, the Soccer City stadium, is fast taking shape. That shape is like a traditional African cooking pot (calabash) sitting on a ring of fire. It is here that 100,000 people gathered to hear Mandela speak when he was released from prison almost 20 years ago. It is here, in the heartland of South African football, where Orlando Pirates and Kaizer Chiefs meet in one of the great derbies of world football, where next year’s World Cup final will be played.
By then Australia, and the world, will have discovered that South Africa is a football country, with a true football culture. Yes, there could be issues about personal security, and accommodation. But the Confederations Cup has shown that the logistics won’t be as bad as once feared. South Africa is ready to show its face to the world. It’s a black face, and it’s got a big smile.
True Tah said | July 3rd 2009 @ 10:48pm | Report comment
Midfielder
Cockerill is wrong about the black inmates of Robben Island only wanting to play futbol, whilst futbol might have been the more popular game, there were plenty of inmates who set up and played in the Island rugby comp, including Anthony Suze and Steve Tshwete (later to become sports minister of SA). Initially the prison guards refused to let them play, but eventually they let them, and the guards were impressed by the standards of some of the players.
I cant help but hope that journalists research their facts on this, because one of the myths within South Africa during apartheid was that the black South Africans did not play rugby and never wanted to play rugby. The fact is, there is a tradition of rugby within the black community, especially within the eastern cape, in fact the blacks and coloureds were playing rugby in South Africa before the Afrikaaners did.
Midfielder said | July 4th 2009 @ 12:04am | Report comment
TT
I accept what you say … my post was more about how FIFA have held out against huge pressure to hold the WC in SA.
But the point you raise is interesting and I had not through of it before your post… but if I explain what I think you meant…
The WC and coverage SA football could give an impression that RU is a quite small in SA and a Boer game rather than a truly national and multi racial game… Hmmmmmmm not sure if you are correct about the WC media coverage … I will watch with interest … actually closer to the time I will call on you to give some advise on places to go as the wife and are going at this stage… will get back to you latter and give you more details …
Greg Smith said | July 4th 2009 @ 12:07am | Report comment
I’m an Eastern Caper. I’d like to say that many people have a totally incorrect perception of this region of South Africa, especially of it’s significance in term of rugby union.
It’s a quirk of history which is rather common from those that have a naive understanding of reality. Many so-called ‘experts’ have it wrong and 90% of the stuff I come across is utter rubbish.
That the Eastern Cape doesn’t hold an esteemed & almost unparalleled place in rugby union history is a pity and quite frankly a disgrace.
The truth would astound you ! That few will ever get it saddens me while the fact that I understand it makes me unspeakably happy.
That there is NO political will to unearth the truth or that there is tremendous inertia to do so, is just one of those terrible facts of life you become comfortable with, like living in a small village.