By jamestheconvict -
July 4th 2009 @ 12:47am
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Loading ...Forget Lote, let’s move onto the Tri-Nations
Australia's Brett Sheehan, right, tackles South Africa's Luke Watson, left, during the Tri-Nations rugby match at the ABSA stadium in Durban, South Africa, Saturday Aug. 23, 2008. Australia beat South Africa 27-15. AP Photo/Themba Hadebe
With the prospect of a cracking Tri Nations coming up, and a Lions series almost wrapped up by a Southern Hemisphere nation for the third time in a row, can we now look towards the world’s premier rugby competition?
There are some interesting clashes coming up.
After “dispatching” of the Lions single-handedly while doing one armed push-ups can the inflated “Beast ” versus everyone act continue, or will the Aussie frontrow be one of the more competitive.
Personally I like the look of the duel between Matt Giteau and Morne Steyne.
They have contrasting styles and both are on a high at the peak of their respective teams good form – Steyne riding high from his own one armed push-ups and Giteau playing like we have all thought he could from the moment he ran out on a rugby field.
The back three of Australia look good. In fact, none of the backlines look as balanced as the Aussies. Africa is a hard place to win matches, and we all know New Zealand will be a different beast come the Tri-Nations.
Will McCaw be as influential in his return as we all know he could be? Will Rocky equal his feats in his own return?
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Darryl SA said | July 4th 2009 @ 1:30am | Report comment
In SA we’re still so disgusted with how the rest of our S14 teams faded when it mattered, including my woeful Sharks, that we’re just going to send the Bulls over to play Tri Nations. Figure if they could best the Chiefs we’ll do ok. And ironically it is their backline that is now playing enterprising rugby. How this happened is beyond me as the rest of us in SA always slept comfortably at night in the knowledge that the Bulls would never know how to run a backline. Whether it has something to do with Pieter Russouw (former Springbok wing) joining as their backline coach I don’t know – I thought the only thing he was good at was running awkwardly.
LeftArmSpinner said | July 4th 2009 @ 9:50am | Report comment
I fully agree!!!!
katzilla said | July 4th 2009 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
Darryl – We used to have to drink during Bok/AB matches whenever Russouw engineered one of his Spin moves, it looked pretty silly then but was reasonably effective. It now seems that every cat and his dog uses the spin to varying degrees of success. Joe Rok uses it quite often.
Im very surprised that alot of people are judging this years 3N as a 2 horse race.
Personally i have a bit of money on Oz @ 3.50
But its far from a 2 Horse race.
NZ will not be a push over regardless of early season trip ups.
Peter K said | July 4th 2009 @ 1:07pm | Report comment
AB’s with most players back will be as hard as ever.
Boks slight favourites then AB’s and then Wallabies. However very close and any team could win.
Darryl SA said | July 4th 2009 @ 6:49pm | Report comment
katzilla,
Personally think this 3N is the least predictable of all I’ve watched so far. SA are elevated by the Bulls winning the S14, but NZ teams were strongest overall, and Aus always show up no matter what, and now they have Deans. Also test rugby is just different to S14. I have no sense of who the strongest is. Feels fairly even across the board right now. I’m generally quite bored with the repetitiveness of the 3N but this year feels a little more interesting due to the uncertainty of it all.
katzilla said | July 4th 2009 @ 7:00pm | Report comment
Indeed. Last year was quite interesting for us because the whole village was waiting outside Henrys door with torches in hand. He scrapped through and here we are again. I think last year had an inevitability about it as soon as McCaw returned for us, after the first game and the impact he had i dont think any Kiwi doubted the title would come our way.
This year is different, can he carry our team without Carter? Or more importantly without a decent first five?
The Boks have had a great warm up with the highest intensity matches you could possibly get pre-3N, and have probably 5-6 players in a form world 15 at this very moment.
And Australia have had the best June test series in recent memory, their form has been excellent and they have the only coach that is unanimously liked in the country he coaches.
All for the good of the game here if this series comes down to the last game which it probably will.
mother teresa said | July 4th 2009 @ 8:37pm | Report comment
deans would have to be the most popular tri nations coach which doesnt say much;probably not too popular with lotes mob which is understandable ;fingerprints?
Bay35Pablo said | July 5th 2009 @ 7:02pm | Report comment
This 3N will be the most cracking and open for a while, but I’m hardly the 1st to say that.
The Boks are looking good, and have a much more rounded game than in previous years. The ABs are looking weaker than for a long time, but when their cattle start coming back from injury the wounded beast will roar. People are writing them off far too early at their peril. The Wallabies are starting to rebuild from some poor years under poor coaches, with Deans being regarded as one of the best coaches around. And we finally have some decent halves who can play a kicking game. Plus the rules changes have everyone in much the same boat of adapting (again).
I’m drooling at this one.
And can I say the Fox Sports ads for the Bledisloe are an absolute cracker. Describing the Kiwis as the “Army of Darkness” and the Wallabies as the Forces of Light, in a bit of a Lord of the Rings piss take, has me in stitches. Love it!!!! Best thing I’ve seen since a Kiwi fan’s sign at a game with a rehash of Public Enemy’s Fear of a Black Planet.
Hemjay said | July 5th 2009 @ 8:19pm | Report comment
A few people are starting to get it about the All Blacks not being as weak as many are making them out to be. The All blacks have being missing a huge chunk of their squad for the entire june test series. The Springboks showed on the weekend that they are just as vulnerable if not more so when a huge portion of their 1st squad is taken out also. The Wallabies will be extremely weakened should Giteau or Mortlock get injured. While improved I don’t think they are as good as some make them out to be. Lets get real here they have not been tested at all yet France was not even a shadow of the team that faced the All Blacks the week before and they could be left wanting in Auckland.
Justin said | July 5th 2009 @ 8:32pm | Report comment
Fair enough Hemjay, although it must be also mentioned that AUS have missed a decent chunk of players also. Palu, Elsom, McMenimen, Dunning, Ioane and probably some others I cant think of…seems to be forgotten, even by AUS supporters.
CronullaKiwi said | July 6th 2009 @ 10:29am | Report comment
Justin, Palu and Elsom granted but McMenimen, Dunning and Ioane?
Justin said | July 6th 2009 @ 10:51am | Report comment
Maybe stretching with McM but Dunning on the reserve bench is a better scrummager than Alexander at present and Ioane was arguably the best back in S14 from any team.
bennalong said | July 6th 2009 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
Elsom and Palu are big losses, both being big men and linebreakers.
Ione in form has also been the pick of S14 wingers for his team.
Fair point Justin. We’ve missed them. Also Dunning does cover both sides better than Alexander at present, and gets around the field well despite his bulk.
ohtani's jacket, said | July 6th 2009 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
Katzilla,
I don’t think McCaw’s return last year signalled anything other than a thumping Eden Park win. There was still a lot of work to be done after that, and despite a good result in South Africa, the Brisbane Test could’ve gone either way. The South Africans did us a huge favour thrashing the Wallabies in Jo-Berg last year, which was a huge miscalculation by Deans and gave us a leg up heading into the decider. IIRC, we didn’t have to win with a bonus point because of it.
That’s what I meant when I said “it depends what openings the other sides give us” in my own thread, because other results will swing momentum one way or the other. If the Wallabies win their one-off Test in South Africa, for example, they have a huge chance of winning this Tri-Nations even if they lose twice in NZ.
The Tri-Nations is always reasonably compelling. It just goes for too long in the extended format.
True Tah said | July 6th 2009 @ 2:04pm | Report comment
OJ
TBH I would rather win the Bledisloe Cup than the Tri Nations, and think we have a reasonable chance of getting it back, the problem is that JON’s Asian adventures mean that we need to win at least 3 out of 4 games. Can we win three games?
ohtani's jacket, said | July 6th 2009 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
TT,
If you’re wondering if you can win three out of four then what makes you think you have a reasonable chance?
If it were a two match series, like it was when we won it back, the Wallabies would be in with a real shot. There’s talk next year of not having a fourth Bledisloe Test, so that would give you two of the three Tests at home.
But they’ve got to take it one Test at a time. The Eden Park Test is the best opportunity for Australia to win in NZ in a long time, but neither a win or a loss will secure the BC.
To answer your question, the Macqueen Wallabies won three Tests and silenced the lambs. I don’t think Deans’ side is remotely close to the 1998 Wallabies, but this is a strange era of rugby. It’s a defence dominated era and that’ll be the difference one way or the other.
True Tah said | July 6th 2009 @ 2:23pm | Report comment
OJ
I would argue that under Macqueens era, it was even more defensively orientated, look at the 1999 WC where it was far more defence orientated.
I should rephrase that I am more confident of Australia winning the Tri Nations than the Bledisloe Cup. Whilst you would be better placed to comment than me, I understand NZ would get a lot more support from the Japanese than Australia will, so we have to win three away games.
NZ is no longer the side they once were, Henry seems to love picking jaffas in his team, even when they had an awful Super 14 season, and the backline is stuttering as a result, and it will help Australia. Despite all the hooplaa about Lote getting sacked, I dont think it will hurt Australia’s chances at all. The wildcard is Richie McCaw coming back, can he inspire his team like he did last year?
ohtani's jacket, said | July 6th 2009 @ 2:44pm | Report comment
I think the defence is tougher now than it was in ‘99. What the Aussies revolutionised in the late 90s is part of the coaching manual now, and with coaches taking up gigs all over the world, even the Italians can run an effective rush defence.
Having said that, perhaps backplay isn’t what it was ten years ago. The All Black era of counter attack from turnover ball appears to be over. Time to think up a new strategy.
As for the Tokyo Test, there’s more Aussies in Japan than Kiwis, but the All Blacks are more famous among the Japanese public. There’s a couple of big Adidas stores in Tokyo too, so the hype will be on the All Blacks’ side. I don’t think it really counts as a home or away game, though. It’s a one off Test and even the break between Tri-Nations and Aussie club rugby vs. ANZC doesn’t work in our favour, as evidenced by the Hong Kong Test. I just hope the pitch is OK.
There’s really only two Aucklanders in the backline — Rokocoko and Toeava and the latter is there because of Smith’s fragility. I don’t think Woodcock, Mealamu or Kaino have done much wrong. Afoa will always be a reserve prop. If anything, Henry tends to favour Wellington players.
That was his strategy from day one — cut back on the number of Canterbury players and pick a balanced side from the rest of the provinces. He does have a tendency to rely on guys who’ve played well for him in the past, but so far that faith has been repaid.
Who do you think should be in the squad?
True Tah said | July 6th 2009 @ 3:04pm | Report comment
OJ
whilst injury prevented it thus far, I would have had a half combination of Leonard and Donald, it worked for the Chiefs this season so i think it is at least worth a shot in the Tri Nations. Plus the All Black coaching staff told Kahui to go and get surgery, they could have used him in the squad at the very least, as he could be used as cover for the erratic Non’u. I know both Donald and Leonard are in the squad anyway, but Henry set a dangerous precedent by handing No. 10 to Luke McAlister.
I would have thought the backline could have done with a bolter, someone like Rene Ranger or Israel Dagg or maybe even Colin Slade, it would have been good to see what these guys could do with decent forward packs in front of them. Maybe not Israel as he is a fullback, and Mils Mulaina was probably the best NZ player of the Super 14, so no real probs with that.
I dont know how Tialata keeps getting picked, by his own admission he reckons he is soft and hes not a great prop, the bloke is a 127kg block of muscle. Not the sort of bloke you want up front.
Im surprised that very few of the Chiefs forwards are getting a run, there are three in the squad right now, although I understand Sione Lauaki is getting ready for a callup. This chiefs engine room was pretty good this season, certainly better than their Auckland counterparts…I know NZ seems to have an issue with producing good quality 2nd rowers, Brad Thorn is getting older, Jason Eaton had an indffferant season, Ali Williams is injured, although Im interested to see how Isaac Ross goes, hes a good young player.
retired rucker said | July 6th 2009 @ 3:59pm | Report comment
TT,
“I dont know how Tialata keeps getting picked, by his own admission he reckons he is soft and hes not a great prop, the bloke is a 127kg block of muscle. Not the sort of bloke you want up front. ”
127Kg block of muscle/ why is that a negative? please explain.
I wish we had props with his physical presence. SurelyTailata made those comments ‘tounge in cheek’ when asked how good he was, trying to be modest?
ohtani's jacket, said | July 6th 2009 @ 4:07pm | Report comment
There’s just not that many options.
Take Ranger for example. Yeah he looked great playing for Auckland, but so did Toeava most of the time. Masaga and Gear have both struggled at Test match level and Ranger would likely suffer the same fate.
Aside from Carter, there’s no one you could slot into the All Black bacline and make it function better. They’ve got to change their playing style more than the players. Having Smith at centre will help, as well as Sivivatu on the wing, and we need to field the best 9/10 combo we’ve got, which is presumably Leonard/Donald, but I strongly believe they need to change their strategy without Carter at 10.
ohtani's jacket, said | July 6th 2009 @ 4:15pm | Report comment
Should’ve mentioned the forwards — I don’t think you can include Waikato players just because the Chiefs had the best performing pack in the Super 14. This was the mistake NZ selectors made with the Crusaders before Henry arrived.
The Chiefs’ tight five aren’t Test match material. Not this year anyway. de Malmanche and Elliot will have some opportunities in the future and the locks Clarke and O’Neill may be in the picture at some point, but they need to work hard in the ANZC. As for the back rowers, Messam’s been dropped and Latimer just came off a poor performance. Lauaki is in limbo and it just seems like Canterbury players are on the fringes right now.
In that sense, the ANZC will be rather important this year. Whatever happens in the TNs, I think the All Blacks need a shake up on the end of year tour.
True Tah said | July 6th 2009 @ 4:37pm | Report comment
retired rucker
for a bloke as big as Tialata with his physical attributes you would expect him to be a bit more dominant than he is. The Hurricanes front row isnt renowned for dominating its opposition at all.
OJ are there any plans for the All Blacks to play in this years Air NZ Cup?
When Sivavtu comes back who goes, Roko or Masaga? Roko had a dreadful season for the Blues, it might be wrong to pick out one game, but against the Reds and Digby Ioane, Roko looked genuinely scared and went missing whenever Big Digby came charging his way…Joe must be thanking his lucky stars Digby wont be on the Wallabies wing this year.
In terms of playing style, what is the best approach, develop a unique “All Black” style, or model it on a successful provincial side (i.e. the Crusaders) of years past, at times during the Crusaders reign, the All Blacks had some excellent teams, just because the national side can’t get to world cup finals because they lose one game, does not mean the style is wrong.
ohtani's jacket, said | July 6th 2009 @ 5:06pm | Report comment
The All Blacks weren’t supposed to play in this year’s ANZC, but with a large number of them being sent back to club rugby last weekend, you never know. The ANZC schedule clashes with the Tri-Nations and end of year tour, so I doubt they’ll play any meaningful rugby even if they’re released to their provinces.
Masaga’s not in the squad, so it’ll be either Gear or Rokocoko on the right wing. Henry will persist with Rokocoko as long as he can because big Joe is one of his boys from way back, but if you ask me Rokocoko is a scapegoat for the All Blacks’ backline play. Who blames a winger for back play? It reminds me of the flack Kirwan got in his final years.
As for playing style, they’ll go conservative at first. it’s the only option they have and it worked last year. For some reason it requires a level of concentration and effort that our players can’t muster for the full 80 minutes, and it takes a grinding toll over the course of a series or tour, but until we get the right balance at 9 through 13, we can’t really develop a new style of attack. We’ve never really gotten over the loss of Umaga. He may not be highly rated by other countries’ supporters, but he was crucial to the All Blacks success in their peak year under Henry.
Hopefully we stop playing so flat. That’s what’s killing us right now.
Jerry said | July 6th 2009 @ 5:34pm | Report comment
TT – the wing pairing I’d like to see is SIvi & Cory Jane. Both the Boks and the Wallabies have got a fair few good kickers throughout their backlines and I suspect we’ll see a lot of kicking duels in the Tri-Nations. Jane has got a far better boot than any of the other wing options and with Jane, Muliaina, Luke/Donald and Weepu in the backline that gives the AB’s a fair few options also. And to be honest, Jane is probably less of a risk than Masaga and in better form than Joe.