Realistically they scrums are simple to police
- both props must be bound & stay straight (no Village people allowed)
- no rolling/dropping of the outside shoulder
- the ball goes in the middle (how hard is it to police this one ?)
- players must remain bound until the ball is out
- no early shoves but take the weight on engagement
- then include the niggly stuff like deliberate wheeling (not sure on the rules with this one)
How hard is that ?? & in fact some refs (don’t ask me to name them as I never remeber a refs name after the game) police the scrum very well although it might take tehm a few resets to cotton on to who’s the problem.

I think you will find aussys and kiwis are equally as capable of a bit of a whinge/whine about the refs. I think the volume of it is directly related win/loss ratio, hence a little less from you Kiwis.

I have been completely one eyed and biased wrt refs in the past but over the last 12 months have made a concerted effort to watch the games more clinically, I’ll tell you it is very hard when you back a team(Force and Wallabies).

What I find when watching neutral games is that the best refs are consistent with their application of the laws, which i beleive is all we can ask. my other observation is that there are alot of reffs at S14 and international level who don’t have a clue about consistancey. This is what generally leads to the Howls from the whiners!
Oh and by the way as an ex 2nd rower I think most of them don’t have a clue at the scrum.

My solution to this is for the iRB and local unions to target ex high grade props as refs and have 2 refs on the field, min 1 with prop background so the scrum can be policed from both sides. Then I would set a minimum reset number @ 5, with the realisation after the 5th collapse a yellow will be issued and penalty. I reckon this would create a fair contest at the scrum most of the time, it would also end the careers of serial collapsers as they would be in the bin for most of the game.

I imagine there will be two camps of thought about the timing. There will be those who argue it woud have been more prudent to wait until after the team performs during the Tri Nations and others who argue that there are no other genuine candidates to consider so why wait.

My view is that this years Tri Nations results are irrelevant if they’re appointed to win the world cup in two years time, so announce it now, let them concentrate on their immediate goals as well as giving them the tiime to begin planning for the future. I agree that their contracts were always going to be extended unless Henry decided to abdicate to Steve Hansen at the end of this season. The NZRU had already decided who their team was going to be when they reappointed them in 2007, this announcement merely confirms it.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10583398

All of the refs have good & bad days & sometimes the calls just go against you. What gets me going is how they penalise the wrong team in the scrums i.e. loosehead not binding or dropping their outside shoulder & they then ping the tighthead. To be honest the standard of reffing these days is pretty high with the ocassional blip. I’m sure if you ask Kiwis about Kaplan they’ll mention ‘Kaplan time’ (7 mins of extra time wasn’t it ?) but I’ve enjoyed the tests he’s reffed.

Predictions:

The Richie McCaw V George Smith debate (which in truth probably only exists in my tiny little mind) will be settled once and for ALL. If McCaw can lead the rabble that has been the ABs in the pre season tests, he is the greatest.

Brad Thorne will be the outstanding forward of the tournament

Deans will talk a whole lot and not say much.

The myth that is the Beast will be exposed

Refereeing will be a blight lead by Bryce Lawrence and Marius Jonkers closely followed by Stu Dickenson (the NZ refs are far and away the best in the world)

ABs to win by a whisker.

Leonard’s game play against Italy was poor. Too many bad options including passing to the wrong side of the ruck where the All Blacks were outnumbered. Not one of his better games, but he has demonstrated a capacity to play much, much better than that.

Toeava’s only problem is his versatility. He played some marvellous rugby for the Blues at fullback and I rate him higher than Jane.

“What would Deans do with the talent New Zealand rugby throws up?” We’ve seen that in 2003.

“I remember an article Spiro published on this site in 2007 where you claimed Stephen Brett was the second best first five in the world after Dan Carter” – LOL, not even the one-eyed hillbillies were proclaiming that.

OJ
- I thought the issue with Leonard was a game plan one as he likes to run the ball & uses his forwards normally.
- Jane has got good pace so I disagree that he’s not a real wing candidate.
- As for the chip kick there were 2 in the first 15 mins vs Italy, one Mils spilled & the other bounced long into the FB’s hands instead of sitting up for the THREE supporting ABs. Either would’ve been a try if they’d stuck.
- McAllister – well you’re going to get the chance to say you were right by the looks of it, I still rate him.
God I love this time of year, especially proving Marshall wrong that the TN is boring !

Sam -excellent point re the Lochore comment. It’s what they weren’t doing inthe first & third test this year & they have to do that to give the backs time.

Mother T – thanks, as long as it’s an Islay or a Scapa !

Not long now & it’ll all be academic, then we can start arguing about the refs instead……

Brian Lochore made an insightful comment when reviewing the All Blacks performances before their departure for France in 2007. He always felt that NZ rugby teams were at their best when the forwards engaged in close hand to hand passing rushes to beat the defence and get behind the advantage line. This was one area he felt required the greatest area of improvement in NZ rugby as a whole. His assessment still holds true today. I’m also perplexed as to why we no longer see the forwards offloading to players running from deep positions. If Tialata has overcome his documented problems with compartment syndrome in his calves then we should see greater consistency from the big man, but it’s high time he delivered.

Spiro, it shouldn’t be too hard to see what Deans is trying to have his Wallabies emulate as it’s obviously served him well in the past and you only have to cast your memory back to the All Blacks from late 2004 to 2007 to acknowledge that it was the same style played by the All Blacks. I wasn’t impressed with the quality of our attacks from setpieces last year and it’s difficult to see any improvement in that area during their past 3 tests. What strikes me as peculiar is the quality of our setpiece attacks against England in the June 2008 tests – we carved them up and that was before the ELV’s.

I read tonight that Graham Henry and Wayne Smith have already earmarked Aaron Cruden for higher honours if he has a strong season in the Air NZ cup this year. Personally I’m wary of placing such pressure and expectation on young talent and there’s also a danger of countries insuring against these players being poached by selecting them for national teams before they’re ready. I remember an article Spiro published on this site in 2007 where you claimed Stephen Brett was the second best first five in the world after Dan Carter following Brett’s performances for Canterbury in the NPC and there were reports that he may sign for an overseas club if he wasn’t selected for the end of year tour last year. As fans we’re often guilty of only noting the good qualities of a particular player but it’s the coaches task to look for the weaknesses in a players game so they can improve and aspire to do better. Non-selection can sometimes be a good thing in a players longer term development.

I don’t believe the performances in June are as accurate an indicator as many people think ahead of the Tri Nations – but then what else do we have to go on? In the past the Wallabies have flattered to deceive against modest opposition during their inbound tours and have been written off by many pundits but they’re always competitive. Conversely SA and NZ are talked up and never dominate as expected. To keep some perspective even as talented a side as the 2005 All Blacks that swept the Lions, was confident, injury free, played a great brand of rugby and generated much excitement and expectation from the NZ public DIDN’T dominate the Tri Nations and it took a late Howlett try against Australia in the final game at Eden Park to win the title. The early 2009 version isn’t a patch on that team. They’re lacking in experience, combination, cohesiveness, direction and execution but the expectations haven’t changed. With the return of McCaw, So’oialo, Smith, Sivivatu and Hore the hope is that the performances and results will.

I thought Tialata played well in the second Test against France, but it’s a hard task getting him to play that way every Test. He strikes me as the kind of player who needs to be told what to do.

Thorn was outstanding in Wellington, but I don’t think we can expect that type of MOTM performance in every Test. He’ll wear himself into the ground if he does all of the hard work himself. I don’t think he played quite as well in the other two Tests, but it’s not a big concern.

I didn’t rate Leonard’s performance. He was trying to clear the ball from the ruck too fast and didn’t size up his options that well. He threw the ball in far too many directions and didn’t utilise his forwards well enough.

McAlister has only really played first five for the All Blacks when they’ve been on the front foot, so it doesn’t surprise me that he looked his best when he came on at the end of the Wellington Test. He can cover 10, but he doesn’t look all that comfortable there and that dates back to the quarterfinal in Cardiff. His confidence seems shot and his comments about how he wouldn’t select himself are a little damning.

As for Jane, I don’t think he’s an out and out winger and putting him there for defensive reasons or as a kicking option won’t help the backline. He’s unlikely to do anything wrong, but he’s barely had any ball playing on the wing and doesn’t seem to come off his line very often.

Spiro,

The All Black attack in recent years has been built around counter attacking through turnovers and quick recycling of the ball. They don’t use a lot of set plays because they prefer broken or loose play to set pieces.

As for Deans, he probably would’ve made some selection errors of his own. All coaches do. Until he wins some silverware with the Wallabies, I’m not convinced that he has better ideas than any other Test coach.

That doesn’t seem very fair.

A short passing game works in theory, but it’s something the All Blacks haven’t been able to master.

What’s happening lately is that the first five is receiving the ball at the same time that the defence reach him, which not only limits the space he has to work with but puts pressure on him to execute. If they were passing short while attacking the line, it would be all right, but they’re passing right before the defence knocks them into the middle of next week, hence the intercepts, charge downs and the like. The only way to counter that is to stand deeper.

Both Donald and McAlister tried the chip kick option, but it was useless to put it mildly. The only successful kicking has been box kicks from the halfback and McAlister’s Carter impersonation with the cross field kick to Rokocoko.

We’ll be in for a torrid time in South Africa if we keep this up. I’ve never quite understood why Henry moved away from the forward based offload game that worked so well for us at one stage. You still see the All Blacks play that way sometimes, but they don’t link up like they did when Henry first took over.

Thanks for the replies guys. I’ve gotta go now, but I’ll answer some more of them when I get home.

Tialata- only got undone by illegal techniques from French loosehead, I reckon he’ll go well
Thorn – played out of his skin, when was he pacing himself ?
Leonard, great service against italy, very crisp & seems to take a 1/2 step vs Piris full step b4 passing, they’re definitely the form 9s though..
McAllister – I rewatched the first 20 mins & he did pretty well, 2 nice chips that with a different bounce or Mils holding on might’ve been trys, good defence, give him a chance.
Jane – played well on the wing so could easily go one side with Sivi on the other although good to know we’ve got a Mils backup now McDonald’s gone.

I like the look of this team, loosies are settling down & will only get better, lineout & restarts are good, scrum needs a bit of work but not much, either 1st 5 will bed in well if they stick to the simple things. As long as Smith stays fit or they drop McAllister into 13 & Donald at 10 instead of Toeava at 13 we’re looking pretty good.

Call me a glass half full type og guy but I like teh look of this team & can only see them getting a LOT better than how they’ve played so far.

It works.

Firstly, it compresses the defence laterally, leaving more space out wide. The shorter passes are easier to throw accurately and make midfield moves at the gain line easier to make stick. Inside players in support dont have to travel so far and are deep enough and close to take the next short pass. All done at pace and with the liberal use of extra men, not telegraphed blind side wingers or fullbacks, but “out of the blue” players at pace creating overlaps and holes to run into.

I didnt see the games but it sounds like the AB’s didnt implement very well. it takes some time but produces the desired results. it goes on at the gian line so when it comes off, the ball carrier is through and into space with support to finish off the break.

For me, pro players have the time and abilty to learn different attacking alignments, wide sweeping backlines or short, sharp passes. Mix them up and force the defence to adjust but without prior notice.

Here’s a run down of the squad:

Aled de Malmanche — finally got a cap against Italy; opportunity beckons on the away leg
Andrew Hore — short on form and playing time, which is hurting the All Blacks badly
Keven Mealamu — solid vet, but can’t put in a barn burner every Test out.

John Afoa — blew his audition for the starting tighthead gig; the fight’s on to keep his bench role
Wyatt Crockett — has a chance to impress in training
Owen Franks — ditto, but even a bench role seems unlikely
Neemia Tialata — first Tri-Nations in a while without a Hayman or Somerville. Tighhead looks like a weak point.
Tony Woodcock — hasn’t regained his fitness yet.

Jason Eaton — reeks of Henry going back to someone who has Test experience
Bryn Evans — didn’t disappoint in his brief cameos, particularly in the restarts
Isaac Ross — should be in the All Blacks on form; wouldn’t be if Williams weren’t injured. Blessing in disguise
Brad Thorn — workhorse, but he’s starting to pace himself

Tanerau Latimer — was a huge disappointment against Italy, but a big improvement over Thomson
Richie McCaw — hasn’t played much rugby this year and there’s question marks over his form and the chances of him staying healthy
Jerome Kaino — the right choice at blindside. Hopefully he gets stuck into the tight stuff
Kieran Read — needs to prove that he’s not just another Crusader and has the skills at Test match level
Rodney So’oialo — have to wonder if the rest did him any good. Make or break campaign for him.

Jimmy Cowan — needs to play like a halfback and stop acting like Justin Marshall
Brendon Leonard — looked rusty to me against Italy; could be crucial in helping Donald settle at Test level
Piri Weepu — one of the only real leaders in the backline (along with Mils). Why not start him?

Stephen Donald — needs to stop listening to the critics and simplify his game
Luke McAlister — shouldn’t be in the All Blacks and his only advantage over Donald is that he’s a better goalkicker. Not his fault he was rushed back too soon.

Ma’a Nonu — will have every rush defender targeting him. Needs to beat some tackles.
Conrad Smith — crucial linkman, but his presence alone won’t help the backline function
Isaia Toeava — the selectors love this kid, but when is enough enough?

Hosea Gear — I don’t get this one. Masaga was pulled from the Junior All Blacks and given a single opportunity against Italy. Gear plays for the Juniors and gets a recall? Go figure.
Josevata Rokocoko — may have entered the stage where he’s more of a finisher than a genuine threat.
Sitiveni Sivivatu — hope he can rekindle his Super 14 form, because he’s the only real line breaker in the All Black backline

Cory Jane — another guy like Ross who’s actually having a good Test season. Very much a fullback, however.
Mils Muliaina — still the best fullback in the world

Aside from Carter, Williams and Kahui, it’s not that far off a full strength All Blacks squad. We’re just well and truly in a rebuilding stage, which is a nice way of saying on the decline.

I would’ve liked to have seen Whitelock in the squad.

IMO The return of Richie McCaw and Soialo will do a lot to improve things, a helluva lot. As I said earlier in the season the AB’s have lacked leaders and leadership. That changes, at least in the forewards.

Without Carter your stakes have fallen, but Donald /McCalister behind a solid pack with go-foreward may workout fine.

It will depend how much pressure the Wallabies can exert. Certainly the balance of confidence is with the Wallabies going into this game. We’ll have to see if the AB’s can find theirs.

How good will Richie be?

Hammer – i am not sure what you are saying – If Deans had experience coaching under the ELV’s then what were the kiwi players doing the first half of the season (many of them coached by Deans). Secondly what were the 3 AB coaches doing in the first half of the year as they watch all the games, have coaches conference and all provincial coaches are on the NZRU payroll so there should be no secrets being held back – A lame argument from my point of view