By Jesse Fink
July 10th 2009 @ 3:05am
Related coverage
We need Neill to play in England
Soceroos captain Lucas Neill expresses bemusement. AAP Image/Julian Smith
Last week in a column for The World Game, I criticised Lucas Neill for appearing to have chosen Turkish Süper Lig club Galatasaray over his current employers, English Premier League club West Ham.
As it stands currently, Neill is playing for no one, having not signed with Gala and not accepted a new “extension” with West Ham.
I copped a bit for having a go at “Luca$h” for flirting with a lesser league just a year out from the World Cup, with some readers bringing up the case of Jason Culina as another example of a current Socceroo dropping down a few career pegs for financial/lifestyle considerations. Isn’t he potentially letting down the Socceroos cause as much as Neill?
The point is a valid one but I think there is a difference.
First, let me say I don’t necessarily support Culina coming back to the A-League, a view shared by the Australia coach Pim Verbeek. It is up to Culina himself to prove he has what it takes to maintain the sharpness and professionalism that has made him one of the first names inked on Verbeek’s first XI teamsheet.
He will be up against it and no matter how much the midfielder says his standards won’t drop, the A-League is clearly a step down from the Eredivisie. (The same pressure will apply to Mile Sterjovski, Jacob Burns and Chris Coyne, Perth Glory’s new triumvirate of signings.)
So how, then, is Neill a unique case?
Essentially, Neill is our captain. Culina is not.
Neill commands a massive leadership role both officially and unofficially, on the pitch and off it. He is the player all the younger players within the team by definition must look up to and his contemporaries – Kewell, Cahill, Schwarzer, et al – must respect.
Kewell and Neill are old friends and if Neill joins “H” at Gala there are obviously going to be no issues of disrespect. But Schwarzer has already cast his own doubts on the merits of Culina’s move to the A-League and the same doubts should apply to any prospective move by Neill to the Süper Lig.
If Neill goes to Turkey, Cahill and Schwarzer will be our only top-line Socceroos playing first XI football week-in week-out in the EPL, with Blackburn pair Vince Grella (far from first XI) and Brett Emerton (coming back from injury) and Hull’s sparingly used Richard Garcia the only other players getting around in the comp.
Is that really the most ideal scenario for Australia 12 months out from South Africa 2010?
The Socceroos need a captain who is playing at the highest level available to him and I don’t care what anyone says – the EPL is a better league than the Süper Lig.
What better preparation for our most important defender than having the world’s most dangerous players – Torres, Drogba, Van Persie, Rooney, et al – bearing down on you every week?
And the suggestion that because Gala is playing in the Europa League (the old UEFA Cup) it makes it a better option for Neill than West Ham is just a crock. Gala’s first game on July 16 is against FC Tobol Kostanay of … wait for it … Kazakhstan.
How is that going to be a real test for our national captain?
As a Socceroos fan, I’d like Neill to stay in the EPL where, on reduced terms or not, he has an opportunity to play his tenth season in arguably the best league in Europe and play yet another as captain.
Is Galatasaray offering Neill the captaincy? No? Then how can it be beneficial to the Socceroos?
No matter how many ways you look at it, for the sake of our World Cup ambitions, Neill has to stay to England.
Get Australia's best Football opinion emailed daily.
Like this content? Buzz it up!
Free Email updates:
Our daily emails are only sent if there is content for the sport or that author. You can subscribe to multiple daily emails; or get the daily Roar email with all our content in it. We value privacy. More...
(35)
Jerry said | July 10th 2009 @ 4:46am | Report comment
If Galatasaray (it is never, ever called Gala) can make Neill as fit as they have Harry, then great. The amount of time spent training at the Istanbul club is amazing – every minute is used in some way. Now *that* is preparation, as opposed to the half days (and sometimes full days!) off players get at their EPL clubs.
By the way, Harry Kewell is called H, not K.
Yusuf said | July 10th 2009 @ 5:19am | Report comment
I agree with what your saying about EPL being better than the Super League, BUT neil clearly doesn’t want to stay with the hammers, and no other club in the EPL wants him or hasn’t made a serious offer for him at the moment, and because of that it will be good for him to join Gala because his national team mate also plays there, Harry Kewell, and Harry proved to the world that even though he was injured for most of his time at Liverpool he still was a good player, and he proved that bby scoring around 12 League goals for Gala and a great 30 yard goal in Europe against a strong opposition Bordeaux. So why wouldn’t it be good if Neil joined Gala, Harry did, and look what happened, and the Super league is still growing in reputation, Turkeys top teams signing TOP players in the last 4 seasons , such as; Nihat, Keita, Leo Franco, Matteo Ferrari, Kewell, Guiza, Roberto Carlos, Lincoln, Linderoth, Kazim-Richards, Milan Baros, Josico, Bobo, Lugano and many more, also top ,managers have managed or are currently managing in the super league such as; Del Bosque, Rijkaard, Mircea Lucescu, Christoph Daum, Fatih Terim, Zico.
Cim Bom said | July 10th 2009 @ 5:50am | Report comment
Are you saying that A-League is as good as Super Lig? When you write “K”, do you really mean “H”? Do you know that Galatasaray is never called “Gala” except by Australians who know nothing? Please, to be credible, get some basics right.
VootballKid said | July 10th 2009 @ 6:28am | Report comment
I sure hope Neill’s reading this. We need our captain in the EPL!
Ben Somerford said | July 10th 2009 @ 7:04am | Report comment
I’m not so convinced, Jesse. For starters, Neill’s been playing RB for West Ham. Is that ideal preparation for the World Cup, when Pim’s gonna play him CB. I personally think he’s better off moving to Galatasaray (CimBom whatever you want to call them) where it seems they’ll play him CB.
And there’s quality opponents in the Super Lig ie. Spanish int’l Dani Guiza at Fenerbahce or Nihat at Besiktas, but I know he won’t play them everyweek but in the EPL, you don’t play the big four everyweek, although many of the other clubs do have some very good players, who’ll likely be at the World Cup.
Nevertheless, despite your claim about this Kazakhstani club, Galatasaray should/will qualify for the major rounds of the Europa League (West Ham, we know, can’t) and play some decent opponents . So in the Europa League he’s sure to get 4-5-6 maybe more games against good opponents with a few players likely to feature at the WC.
I get your argument, but I just don’t think it’s really something strong for Lucas himself to actually be concerned about.
Jesse Fink said | July 10th 2009 @ 8:19am | Report comment
Jerry and Cim Bom, I am not the only person in the world to call Galatasaray “Gala”. You might be football eggheads and be pedantic about it, but who cares? As for “H” for “K”, that was a genuine typing lapse and it will be corrected. Thanks for pointing it out.
Hammer said | July 10th 2009 @ 9:15am | Report comment
As a West Ham fan I hope he goes to Galatasaray
Pippinu said | July 10th 2009 @ 9:23am | Report comment
I had this discussion with sj about a week ago, that the days when we could boast 10 players in the EPL/Serie A are fast coming to a close. Add no one in La Liga, Culina leaving PSV for the A-League, Josh leaving the Bundesliga for the J-League, and I tell you what folks – we are rapidly entering a period where we’ll be thankful that we have 8 to 10 Socceroos playing in the Turkish league (fast approaching the quality of the Eredivisie, but certainly not EPL/Serie A).
During this discussion, I surmised the following in the near future:
1. the Socceroos will no longer boast big names (of the ilk of Kewell/Viduka); but
2. we may ultimately have incredible depth, such that there is no longer a massive gap between, say, our 5th best player and our 25th best player.
Good or bad?
Only time will tell – but that is the world we are now entering.
It will probably be good in terms of maintaining a top 3 position in Asia – it might just be enough to hold onto a 16 to 20 ranking in the World.
Andrew said | July 10th 2009 @ 9:31am | Report comment
I wouldn’t want players to take the soft route for more dosh but in Neil’s case he has spent a long time in England. At this stage in his career a different style, playing in his national team position and less significant games is probably a decent idea.
Look at 2002 a lot of the big names didn’t deliver in hot conditions because it turns out 50 plus matches might not be great preparation for a southern hemisphere world cup.
Galatasaray have a big squad and that’s important, it means training will be intense and that is along with a lot of scrutiny the benefit of a big team. West Ham to Galatasary strikes me as a sideways move rather than a move down. It’s just a shame there not in the Champion league.
However I didn’t like the fact he chose west ham over Liverpool when he had the chance. That was a chance to play Champions League football.
I must admit I don’t have much of a read on Neil’s personality but someone who is self motivated like Kewell I trust to make a career move to suit their body.
I’m on the fence about Cullina but I support the other 3 coming back to Perth Glory (assuming Coyne is signed). They may get used in the Socceroos first 11 but if the full team is fit then there probably just role players.
For those guys coming back to an A League team they will be pretty much guaranteed a first team spot in the “Asian” Socceroos i.e. the B team made up of players playing in the A league, K league, J League and China. If they do well they can still get a spot in the World cup team and there all mature aged players who have been in Europe so know what they have to do to compete and the required level.
It’s no longer just qualifying for the world cup now that we are in Asia, qualifying for the Asian cup and possibly the confederations cup are important too. We are going to have a lot of guys not play on from the 2010 world cup to the 2014 cup and the more quality tournaments we qualify in between the smoother the transition will be.
Andrew said | July 10th 2009 @ 9:38am | Report comment
I’m not a fan of the Kenedy move but at least he will be getting games hopefully. I don’t follow Blackburn so don’t know what the problem with Grella is (injured, form, just not suited to english football?) but he was a much better player for Australia when he was playing week out week out in Italy
Rob said | July 10th 2009 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Pip
Another intelligent post. I have to agree that in the next 5-10 years we may not produce another Kewell or Viduka, but that the depth of talent will be greater. The “game breakers” with big names may not be there, but on the balance we’ll probably have a better squad to call on, which also, psychologically, would mean that it wouldn’t be such a big deal of a Kewell or Viduka were out injured. Hopefully during the next 5-10 years we will produce more players capable of playing in the big leagues, but without the short-sighted view that only playing in the EPL is playing in a big league.
On Lucas Neil’s (possible) move to Galatasaray, I think he is moving sideways, as Andrew stated. Playing for a middle of the road EPL club is not really going to put the same amount of pressure on him as playing for one of the biggest clubs in Turkey, although the quality of opposition won’t be quite the same. Jesse, I see your point, but I don’t think it’s a big deal.
GeneralAshnak said | July 10th 2009 @ 9:47am | Report comment
I personally think that Neil moving away from the EPL is probably going to be good for him. If the Super Lig can do what it has done to Harry, why not Lucas? Harry is fit and happy – something that helps translate into success. Neil is unhappy – that equals onfield failure. I do not want a unhappy Lucas being our captain at the World Cup (I personally do not think he should be our captain anyway). The EPL is not the be all and end all of Europe Jesse.
md said | July 10th 2009 @ 9:51am | Report comment
Jesse, I assume the dried frog pills have been located. This article makes perfect sense from a Socceroo fan perspective and on balance I think you are right.
We should bear in mind that we are asking him to make a huge sacrifice in the scheme of things though. Millions of dollars, over a reasonably short career that only has a few good years left in it. He is being asked to forgo massive wages in a country with a punitive income tax for high earners like footballers. Very few footballers get richer after they retire (particularly if they then invest in Australian football clubs). I’m not sure anyone really appreciates that demanding Lucas stay in the UK is really demanding that he give up some serious money that would otherwise set his family up for a couple of generations.
That said, I hope he does.
Cheers
md
AGO74 said | July 10th 2009 @ 10:01am | Report comment
So long as he’s fit and in form next June who cares. It’s his call. His position as captain is irrelevant. We did ok at the last World Cup with only a similar number of players playing in the EPL. Chippers was our best player from memory – and he plays for a Swiss club! Using that Kazakh opponent as a reason why he shouldn’t join Gala for Euro football is clutching at straws. You know as well as I do that (barring a minor catastrophe) Gala will win that tie and then be pooled with other decent Euro teams. Not to mention playing against other decent Turkish teams like Fenerbahce, Besiktas, Sivasspor….
MVDave said | July 10th 2009 @ 10:06am | Report comment
Neil needs to be playing weekly at a high standard, be injury free and be on top of his game…TBH whether that is in Turkey (improving standard) or England, l dont think it matters too much in terms of 2010 WC. He also needs to be enjoying himself to keep his motivation high.
Harry Kewell is a once in a generation star for the Socceroos and although he has slowed he is still playing at a high enough level to be a very good player. We dont need 10 players playing in the EPL but certainly 10 playing in the top 6 or so leagues will help the Socceroos.
In terms of Culina, Sterjovski etc l look towards Landon Donovan of the USA as a good example. He had a go in Europe but never quite made it…he plays in the MLS and is quality. His performances in the Confeds Cup vs World s best were excellent. The MLS made be slightly better than HAL in overall standard but it is close and the gap is closing. The most important aspect is that players are playing week in, week out. The US team has quite a significant proportion of players who play in their domestic comp.
Sammy C said | July 10th 2009 @ 11:05am | Report comment
One word – wages.
whiskeymac said | July 10th 2009 @ 11:09am | Report comment
Jesse interesting point but it’s no such a bad club. I was slightly more disappointed in trosis singing a longer contract for a middling turkish club. but then again it’s still preferable to the lower english divsions where coyne languished out of favour and on the benches. surely for coyne its better to play for Perth than be a squad member for colchester? Actually a lot of the socceroos outside the 4 or 5 big names don’t seem to get regular game time. much better for them to come back to the HAL (or better still play in a decent team in turkey at this stage) than warm up the benches (Carney Liejer DWilliams Kisnorbo maybe etc). It’s quite sobering when reading the aussies abroad sections of 442 etc just how many players dont get game time, even for lower league teams.
Pip, you are right in suggesting that the ’star’ players may not be around in the next few generations but the standard/depth of the squads will improve to the benefit of the NT and HAl (team of stars versus star team cliche) – still you would hope that there might be the odd bolter who will add that added something special. A team of wilkshire like consistency would be more than acceptable. but If the NSL systems could still produce players like Kewell, Shwarzer and Farina etc then why can’t the new elite club youth systems recently proposed by FFA?
Bruce Walkley said | July 10th 2009 @ 11:21am | Report comment
So, assuming Jesse’s figures are correct, we will now have only two regulars and three wannabes at EPL clubs. How are we supposed to change that? Get Frank Lowy to buy a club so more Socceroos can get a guernsey? The Asian qualifiers showed that players going around in other leagues can do the job at international level, and if Verbeek has a good monitoring system it doesn’t matter where they’re playing, so long as they’re getting regular match practice rather than splinters in their arses.
Art Sapphire said | July 10th 2009 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
If Jesse was a Yank he would have been complaining of U.S captain Bocanegra moving from Fulham to Rennes.
“Don’t go to Ligue 1 Carlos, stay in the EPL for our sake”
Current US players in the EPL
Tim Howard March – Everton
Jonathan Spector – West Ham United
Eddie Johnson – Fulham
Clint Dempsey – Fulham
Yet somehow they managed to beat Spain in a competitive match. You can draw your own conclusions.
StiflersMom said | July 10th 2009 @ 12:48pm | Report comment
I hear what your saying Jesse and have a degree of sediment for your cause and as much as we need Lucas to perform for Australia we can’t be directing his career purley our requirment for him to perform for the socceroos, his career decisions are his, not ours or anyone else’s and whilst we’d like him to choose a path that would be most beneficial to the socceroos the path he choose’s must be the one he is most comfortable with.
Lets not forget HK turned up from Turkey looking sharper and fitter than I have memories of him.
If Neil joins Gala The jury will be out on his performance level until the end of the season but the verdict is in on HK and it was in his favour.
Cim Bom said | July 10th 2009 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
The people in the world who call Galatasaray Gala are ignorant. It is like calling your favourite England team Liverp. But go ahead. Be stupid.
Greg Russell said | July 10th 2009 @ 1:52pm | Report comment
Usually I find it hard to fault Jesse, but on this one I feel he’s had a bad day … the obvious rebuttal, as pointed out by people in different ways, is that going to Turkey seems to have done H (or K or HK or Harry or Kewell – does it really matter?) the world of good.
It really is criminal that people like Art Sapphire and Pippinu who write such good comments should continue to go by noms de plume. Guys, such knowledge and insight deserves to have real names attached! (And do you think you could do a bit of moonlighting and help improve the general standard of rugby comments? This Tuqiri business has really brought out the worst in many people. Heaven knows what they would say of the Egyptian football team [get it?] Oh but that’s right, they didn’t play rugby league, so it doesn’t matter what they do.)
Since I have only 1% of the football knowledge of most of the comment makers here – actually, 1% is still a lot of knowledge in this case! – I usually like to introduce a different angle. In this case it would be: what is it saying about the future of football that a player like Neill can get more money in Turkey than in the EPL? Usually players go to where the money is best, don’t they? And it’s not as if Turkey is such a bad place to live in comparison with England, is it? (Think of the climate!)
Jesse Fink said | July 10th 2009 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
Greg, I think the important difference here is that West Ham wants to keep Neill. Liverpool was quite happy for Kewell to leave. Neill is captain of his club. Kewell was not. All agreed that Kewell needed a break and change of scene since playing in England from his late teens – and he has since proven that Turkey was a good move for himself and his football. I don’t believe Neill moving to Turkey is going to benefit the Socceroos, and that is what this blog is about. Neill is our captain. I believe to that end he needs every minute he can get as a captain and as a player in the best league available to him. This is not a blog about where he personally stands to financially gain the most.
Koala Bear said | July 10th 2009 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
MVDave,
interesting comment Dave, about the Yanks, and I agree they were fabulous… At this point in time I feel they are better than us… Landon Donavan is an under rated player who can marshal his troupes in the midfield very effectively … He was fantastic … I also thought Davis and Altidore (19yrs) played extremely well… Don’t be surprised if the USA are semi final contenders providing they can keep 11 players on the park… Their tackling was over zealous at times and need to learn to hold off and close down tight instead of lunging in with both feet…
Jesse,
I don’t think Lucas will lose anything by going to Turkey as long as he stays super fit injury free; it may even benefit us with Lucas playing a central defender’s role going into a final season before a SA 2010 WC…
~~~~~~
KB
Pippinu said | July 10th 2009 @ 2:23pm | Report comment
Greg
aw shucks – thanks for the kind comments (writing with inflated head…)
Pippu is my name (Pippinu being a diminutive).
Whiskey
Re your point about being able to produce a bolter (as no doubt we will every now and then), I thik it would be a mistake to compare the NSL and the A-League in this respect.
If we get fewer and fewer palyers into the EPL, it will be because:
1. the rest of the world is producing players keen on the EPL (so massive competition);
2. and in any event, Euro leagues no. 5 to 12 pay excellent wages and offer very good careers for aspiring professional players.
In fact, there are stacks of choices outside of the Euro leagues if you want to earn some decent coin these days – and with clubs with decent facilities – I suspect that will only increase in the future.
Hammer said | July 10th 2009 @ 2:29pm | Report comment
Yeah but Jesse what you’re asking is really for Neill to make a massive sacrifice for his country over his own personal circumstances …. now he’s off contract he’s not going to get anywhere near the reported £70,000 a week salary he’s been on at WH – the offers haven’t been flying in from other PL clubs – so now he’s a free agent this could be his last big pay day – with a decent salary and sign on fee a Galatasaray …. the hammers may want him to stay but on their terms and they are adamant on their renewed offer …
Given he jumped for the cash in the first place over a chance at Liverpool – I think it’s evident where his focus is …. And good on him … but to basically say he should stay at WH at any price because his country needs him in 2010 is a very big ask
Andrew said | July 10th 2009 @ 2:48pm | Report comment
While I think the move might benefit him performance wise I do understand that it does imply he is taking the cash rather than the challenge which isn’t the inspiring behavior some want from a captain. I think that’s unfair but it’s a good enough excuse to give it to Schwarzer becasue he’s from western sydney rather than the north shore
Greg Russell said | July 10th 2009 @ 2:54pm | Report comment
I think Jesse and Hammer have summarized the arguments on both sides very strongly (thanks!).
Different to the majority of Australasians, I did my time in Europe not in England. Thus I am always concerned to water down the Anglocentric view a little, because I have experienced that there is a huge world out there for which English football is big but not the center of the universe. So no question that the EPL is a better address than the Turkish league, but for a lot of Europe the difference is not nearly as great as we in Australasia perceive it to be.
In fact, dare I be so bold as to suggest that for a lot of Europe, Galatasary is a more prestigious address than West Ham? (or wherever else in the EPL Neill is likely to go next).
Anyway, I stress that I’m stopping taking a side here, but merely trying to put forward a different angle to view things from. One only moves forward by considering issues from different angles.
Art Sapphire said | July 10th 2009 @ 3:01pm | Report comment
Thanks for the compliment Greg.
One day I will reveal my real Bruce Wayne name.
Further to Pip’s comments. There are big clubs outside the top 4 leagues that will pay bigger money than most of the EPL because they are big fish in their local leagues, but they are chasing European Glory.
Fenerbache, Galatasaray, Shakhtar Donetsk, Olympiakos, Panathinaikos etc.
The problem with Lucas is that West Ham unwisely offered way too much money for his services. A preposterous 70k pounds a week. Liverpool offered him 40k a week when he left Balckburn but he turned them down and the chance to play in the Champions League and took the big money at West Ham instead.
Considering West Ham’s current finanaces, there is no way they can keep paying Lucas stupid amounts of money.
They are not the Lucas Neill Benevolent Society.
This is Neill’s predicament – get paid 40k pound a week in the EPL or got to Turkey and get paid 50k pound a week.
Form shows that he goes where the money is.
Hammer said | July 10th 2009 @ 4:33pm | Report comment
Art – from reports the figure WH are offering is less than half of what he’s currently on – so it’s a big cut especially if he can get 50k at Galatasaray plus all his sign on fee from being a free agent … and from seeing most of his performances last season the hammers have probably got that about right or even a tad too high … don’t get me wrong he did a fantastic job for WH in that shocking 2nd season when they did the great escape … but really the team has moved on and he’s too slow to be a top right back in the PL …
Greg – question – when were you in Europe ? … the EPL has become a monster and really if you’re any type of quality footballer it is either in England or Spain where you want to ply your trade … sure playing in the Old Firm or Istanbul derby would be an experience you’d never forget .. but in the end the week to week quality is a lot higher in the PL he’d certainly be taking a step down …. for Kewell it was a good decision – he’d been a permanent sick note for the last 4+ seasons he was in England so the step down has been beneficial for his longevity
Art Sapphire said | July 10th 2009 @ 4:49pm | Report comment
Hammer – as a fellow Hammers supporter.
I can only state that I am glad we have finally steadied the ship both on and off the pitch.
Hopefully, Zola and Clarke will be able to guide us to a Europa League spot next season.
Neill’s best hope is for a money bags club like Man City to offer him the sort of money Galatasaray are willing to pay.
Otherwise, he will be joining Harry in the great Turkish Baths of Istanbul.
Gibbo said | July 10th 2009 @ 4:59pm | Report comment
i criticised you on this one via TWG, however you won me over with Luca$h Neil here. That’s pretty funny, hope it sticks.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | July 10th 2009 @ 5:11pm | Report comment
I must admit that I’m a little worried about the pace of our back four with only Wilkshire having some turn of speed with Neill, Chippers and Moore all slowing a little. A big season for Spiranovic in the Bundesliga would do wonders for my concerns.
The captaincy issue is an interesting one. Does the captain of the Socceroos need to be a captain of a top flight side and if not what impact will it have on the team?
Art Sapphire said | July 31st 2009 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
FYI – Brazilian international Elano has joined Galatasary.
Another sidenote – Johan Neeskens is the assistant coach to Rijkaard at Galatasaray.
As the days go by it looks more and more likely that Neill will swallow his wallet and decide to take the reduced wages at West Ham.
Pippinu said | July 31st 2009 @ 3:17pm | Report comment
Interestingly, I recall Neeskens making noises about getting Neill to Barca after the last WC.
It’d be good to know that he’s surrounded by aussies – might make his return a lot smoother.