- made it a farce from a viewing perspective.

- The end result was a largely soulless tour, bereft of passion

That’s utter tosh and I think you know it. Don’t now act the victim and pretend your article was ever about whether The Lions are given enough time preparing for their tours because of overlapping seasonal competitions. That’s not even mentioned in your first post.

Maybe this is the best answer of the whole thread

it should showcase British and Irish rugby and that the players should enjoy the country and make friends, win, lose or draw, and the tourists and travelling fans should take it all very seriously and professionally whilst at same time trying to break all previous records for alcohol consumption.

I thought some of the B&I backline players were superlative – Bowe, Kearney, Byrne etc and they certainly played a much mroe enterprising brand of rugby than our players. Our best tries came from set phases (good as they were), most of the time we kicked possesion away as soon as we got it.

The Lions have learnt alot from the tour and will hopefully change things in the future. However the fundamental problem for the entire International arena in the NH is that the NH season is long. The clubs in the GP and the provinces in the Celtic nations need the games for critical mass to generate the income to keep the professional game going forward. The income generated through bums on seats and TV/radio pays for the investment in grounds, academies and of course playing squads. The Lions are calling for earlier release of the chosen squad but there will have to be a fundamental adjustment to the playing season for these players to be released earlier.

However I believe the powers that be will probably agree to make adjustments in a Lions year, as the 4 Home Nations want to support the Lions brand. For the players it a pinnacle of their career and an opportunity to play with players from other nations, very rare otherthan for the Baa-baas. Of course there is another factor not to overlooked, I read somewhere that the Lions tour will generate approx £1M for each of the 4 Home nations.

Now that is the kind of response I hoped to get, not the petulant kneejerk reactions from people who lashed out at me without understanding the issues. I am a proud Springbok fan yes but that does not exclude me from questioning and critisizing the whole Lions setup. In retrospect it is both the Lions management team and SARFU who should take the blame for a tour that was a bit like Frankenstein. As Rowdy rightly said, it was too serious and it had the feeling of a rushed event, squeesed in between the Super 14 and Confed Cups. Let me be clear, I definitely did not question anything around the B&I fans who were great and it was wonderful to see them in their thousands, just the locals who were a bit harddone by. In my humble opinion.

On reflection I have the answer, the Lions should not tour SA again, instead tour Argentina. Quite clearly the Boks approach in the spirit of a Lions tour. A sample of two postings on a Quins blog.

“Lets start with the stadium, all 3 stadiums had seen better days, the seats did not go up and down, so when people came in late they climb on the seats, underneath the seats were water channels full of rubbish, just waiting for another Bradford fire, the toilets had been installed in the age of the empire. On the top stands some people felt near vertigo, After loosing the 3rd tests some Boks fans started pushing around OAP Lions fans in the toilets and grabbing young women lions fans up by the throat.

To me SA was like a futuristic Sci Fi country. You land in the country go past miles of shanty towns, then go into a gated community, where people drive, Astin Martins, Bently’s etc. Accept for the shanty towns most people have grills on their lower floor windows and electric fencing on the walls. After 5pm (Gets Dark) the hotels advised us to get taxis. When you stop at Robots (Traffic Lights), a mass of people swarm out with items for sale, you would not want. All races have signs stating out of work need a job. Our guides tell us there is 35% unemployed, the total population is 45m + at least a further 20m illegals. I am told there is 25 millionaires in Sweato, making money out of poverty.”

“We went on a DIY trip – mixing a visit to relatives in Jo’burg, the second and third tests and safari trips in the North and South. This was our second Lions tour – New Zealand had been a fantastic experience (apart from the rugby…). When we arrived, South Africa was patting itself on the back for hosting the Confederations Cup, but gawd help them in 2010. There is no public transport in Joburg or Pretoria, and it is easy to stray into a dodgy area.The stadia are a mixed bag, and Loftus should be condemned.

On the day of the second test, we travelled by car up to Pretoria, and enjoyed a few beers beforehand in a (very efficient)bar by the ground – as we were leaving, we bumped into a group of Quins fans holding the quarters proudly aloft! Then off to Gate 6…with 10,000 others. Chaos ensued. We were redirected to Gate 8, then endured a scrum in the ground to get to our entrance area. The situation was quite frightening, and the footy fans will not be so accommodating. We got to our seats having missed the eye gouging incident. There were no stewards, but the local fans were very friendly. All seemed well until O’Gara’s Moment of Madness. The Lions fans were fantastic, but what might have been….

The third test was an amazing afair. The stadium was much better, although not full. SARFU had overpriced the tickets and admitted as much in the press. We had got ours at a reasonable price by buying season tickets for The Golden Lions (and The Blue Bulls in Pretoria). Again, good bars beforehand, and afterwards. The highlight was Ugo’s try – he was getting run down and only just made it – the celebration was nearly premature! After the game, we again bumped into some Quins fans holding a very large quarters flag. One memory is of the Lions fans singing “I’d rather be A Lion than A Bok!” “

I get the sense that Ben J is looking for a row in a bar, and everyone just keeps drinking and having fun.

My feeling is that it should showcase British and Irish rugby and that the players should enjoy the country and make friends, win, lose or draw, and the tourists and travelling fans should take it all very seriously and professionally whilst at same time trying to break all previous records for alcohol consumption. Cliff Morgan still has SA friends made whilst touring in 1955 – that’s the point.

And Simon, play the game not the man!:)

Jeepers what planet are you on!

30/35000 BI supporter in SA, many millions following the games pre test matches and the tests v Boks in the UK. I know of a number of followers who are already clearing their diaries for OZ 2013. Forget the RWC 2011, the joy of being with all the other supporters supporting a joint team is a joy and great fun. The rugby was not bad either for a scratch side.

I see from Geech initial post tour thougths are that a manager should be appointed at least two years before the tour, the Lions should have greater input into the tour itinerary, the tour should be longer by at least another week to allow a test side to play together prior to the firat test and the host nation should have the courtesy to put out stronger sides.

I have to agree with other commenters. When I read your thoughts I thought, I can’t let this guy write this drivel without retort. So I was happy to see other readers clearly felt the same.

“The end result was a largely soulless tour, bereft of passion and local support.”

What, on earth, are you talking about? Seriously! This tour gave us real fans many moments to savour! It felt like a return to the rugby of old, that we love and is a massive advertisement for rugby in the Northern Hemisphere. I felt that save some bad finishes, unfortunate mid game injuries and ‘bounce of the ball’ incidents the Lions could’ve actually managed a series win!

Open your eyes Ref, you’re missing a good game!

The team is called the British and Irish Lions.

Would you not want to test the best of British and Irish players? (and no, they’re not the same thing)

Playing against the Boers has no historical resonance at all – from my point of view.

I’m sure there were thousands of Irish Lions fans as well enjoying hospitality packages and getting fleeced along the way.

And yes people do want to experience a festival of rugby that only happens once every twelve years and is something to celebrate.

Where are you from, by the way? South Africa?