Indeed, but its not a great way to sell a game is it: “Come and play rugby union and if you apply yourself, are very good at the game and have a deal of luck you might get to play in a competitive game in 10 years time”

They’re not the only ones! The club I support is responsible for 2 of the three Libertadores trophies owned by PA (Porto Alegre)… Stupid losing the semis to Cruzeiro, and the Final in 2007 to Boca! Grr! Still angry about that first leg at La Bombonera in 2007…

Besides, French is such a beautiful language. The “Prix de l’Arc de Triomph” sounds so much better than the “Arch of Triumph Prize”!

Re. the ‘23 game – Wembley’s lawyers advised the ground to declare an attendance of 127,000 because they thought an extra 2,000 could be defended if any of the people who were hurt in the crush on the terraces when the pitch was cleared made a fuss. The police estimated 240,000 but hundreds of men who’d served in the Great War and were used to huge agglomerations put the figure at 300,000.

TRUE TAH – Hugo Porta did become an architect but a lot of Argentine futbol fans never forgave him for going over to “the other side” – specially when they’d read of his exploits on the rugby field. I saw him play against the Wallabies in BA in ‘79, and saw the Grand Slam Wallabies in England and Scotland in ‘84. Hugo was the opposite of Mark Ella – Ella was OK kick, terrific run, Porta was OK run, terrific kick. Several times the majority of points (sometimes all the points) the Pumas scored came from Hugo’s boot. Elderly rugby fans in Britain/Ireland/France who saw all the greats, including near-legendary Aussie fan Rex Goodwin, rate Puig Aubert as the greatest kicker they ever saw with Hugo close behind. But there’s no doubt that Hugo singlehandedly put Argentine rugby on another level.

Maybe you’ve been to some of the rugby pubs and bodegas in BA. Sooner or later the talk gets around to which player in the Copa would make the best rugby kicker.

The IRB got most upset with this and offered FIRA a seat on the IRB provided they withdrew their claim of being Rugby’s main body.

Unfortunately, FIRA took the 30 pieces of silver so we still have the inept and undemocratic IRB still running (ruining) the game.

FIRA still do an admirable job at spreading the game through Europe and these days Northern Africa. The 2009 U18’s european Championships has all 42 member nations competing over several divisions. And there work alongside the French in north Africa is beginning to pay dividends with Tunisia being realistic chances of toppling Namibia to qualify for NZ in 2011.

They have also assisted the seeding process ofr the game in Eygpt.

The French have actually been very influential in rugby through FIRA, the alternate ruling body to IRB.

When France was kicked out of the 5N from 1932-39, they formed FIRA & went looking for opponents in Eastern Europe. This continued after WW2, & countries like Italy, Romania, Russia, Georgia, Spain & Portugal, among others, can thank France for showing an interest in their development when most of the so called ‘big 8′ were otherwise interested in only themselves.

France are also the prime mover in Northern African rugby in countries like Morooco, Algeria, Tunisia & Ivory Coast.

South Africa also invested considerable manpower & ideas into the development of Argentine rugby, from the 50s through to the 80s.

Spain’s famous Barcelona football club was formed by a German, Paul Haas, using Swiss, English and Spanish players. The club also ran a Rugby side. The original club badge incorporated Rugby goalposts.

F C Milan was originally named the Milan Cricket and Football Club because it was founded by the English. It iis also the reason why, to this day, the club uses the English spelling, Milan, not the Italian, Milano.

Anothe club in Europe formed by the English is the Swiss football club, Grasshoppers. Tom Griffith was the founder and once again, English spelling is used.

It appears the British spead their own games far and wide, soccer, cricket, Rugby and polo. The French did not do so the same extent. However, in Africa, the French introduced Rugby quite successfuly to their then colonies. However, soccer remains the top sport by Rugby has a strong base in al former French spheres of influence.

one of those big bad Barry brain snaps . . .

300K for a Wembley game is a little inflated – 126,947 is the recorded attendance for that game.

Interesting article, got me thinking if my auntie had balls what could she have been?

Over the years South Americans have been exposed to all sorts of influences from overseas travellers – and that’s how football was introduced to South America in the early 1900s.

They have also been exposed to Gridiron, Rugby, tennis and lots of other things including Butt Shaking, for which Brazil is also a world champion.

They seem to be naturally talented at football and that’s where they’ve done best.
South American countries are also a little poorer so the players represent good value for overseas clubs for their entertainment and skill levels – particularly if they get them as youngsters.
Valencia snapped up Messi when he was just 13 and paid for all his expenses including growth hormone treatment to try and make him grow a bit taller.

Rugby is certainly growing internationally but it might be a while before Brazil or even Argentina win a World Rugby Title.

But a Uruguayan team has not won the Copa since 1988.

Nacional got knocked out by Estudiantes in the semis a few weeks ago.
The year’s final is between Estudiantes and Cruzeiro. The first leg finished 0- 0 in Argentina.
The second leg will be played on Thursday morning in Brazil and I expect Cruzeiro to win. It will be on Setanta.

re: Hugo Porta’s decision to pass up contract with Boca, I understand he wanted to become an architect, and it would have been hard for him to be a professional architect and a professional futbol player.

He was a damn fine rugby player, and Argentine rugby is eternally grateful for his achievements for Los Pumas.

The British introduced rugby to Argentina but it was soon swamped by futbol and remains so partly because the Pumas never produced a god like Maradona, Batistuta, Zanetti and Messi. Hugo Porta, the only Argentine to be inducted into the Rugby Hall of Fame, was never forgiven by a lot of people for passing up a contract with Boca Juniors. Also, the best the Pumas could do in a RWC was a semi-final appearance while the Argentines won the FIFA World Cup twice and were runners-up twice.

And for those who follow the game in SA, here’s a quiz – In the Copa Libertadores from 1960 to 2006, BA has won it 17 times. Which city has the next best record – Santos, Rio, Montevideo, Lima, Sao Paulo or La Plata?

Answer supplied late tomorrow.

Obviously this dates are a testament of the importance of the game at that time in Argentina, but shows too that it was the preferred game by the newcomers.

And if my mother had married my uncle I’d be my cousin.

That’s the reason why I say that they embraced football faster than rugby, because of tradition and because they weren’t part of the elite of the country that played rugby.

About the Italian immigration, lots of them came well after 1920, specially after the WW2. The trend finished around 1960 if I remember well.

Unless there’s dramatic changes, & I can’t see that happening in the short-term, most of our leading players will be in Europe before too much longer. FIFA can’t control the migration of their leading players, so what hope does the ARU, NZRU or IRB for that matter, have?

From a historical viewpoint, this is an article i would have loved to write. Enjoyed the history lesson. Have read about football coming to South America before, but not in such clear, simplistic terms.

In your last sentence you appear to have contradicted yourself. I’m sure you said both types of football (actual) arrived in South America, but soccer (used here for contrast) quickly prevailed over rugby.

Indeed, one needs to dig deeper to understand why association football took off in South America; American/Canadian football in North America; rugby in Australia, New Zealand & South Africa; & cricket & hockey in India & Pakistan?

And furthermore, why rugby league prevailed in two Australian states, & not much elsewhere. And why the remainder of the Australian states adopted their own version of football?

As a final footnote, the world has a lot to thank the English for, so why are we so mean to them? If the French had founded us for example, we would speak a beautiful language & have a wonderful culinary culture, but our society would be up the creek in most other ways!!!

As much as we bag them, the British did a lot of things very, very well in the 18th/19th centuries.

I was under the impression that futbol was not the most popular sport in Italy under the 1920s (cycling was bigger until then) and didnt most of the Italian immigrants to Argentina immigrate prior to this?

About why rugby didn’t caught in the same way as football, the only reason I find is because the majority of the population are descendants of Italian and Spanish immigrants, then you have Germans, French, Austrians,Polish, English,Irish,etc. This 2 big communities maybe found easier to play football which was more related to their cultures (calcio for example) and specially because rugby was more a sport for the elites.

Sorry for my English.

Currently the situation you described already occurs. I spent several years working in the Pacific and many of the Polynesians left for Australia and or New Zealand to play, often gaining citizenship in the process via various relatives, resulting in a degrading of the local game and national sides.

Football and rugby alike have to remain flexible as world demographics wax and wane. The growing economies of East Asia may prove the next big challenge for all codes of football; which is partly why the FFA embracing Asia is so inspired. I’d urge rugby to do the same.