Please do not waste my time by continually asserting that black is white.

Baxter never at any time bound on Woodcock’s sleeve. There is no room for doubt on this. I note you make no reply to my analysis (obviously because you cannot do so).

What is interesting is how the proponents of the “Baxter can’t scrum” myth so rabidly deny the plain truth, even when the video of last Saturday’s match leave no room for doubt. This shows up that myth for what it is – It was never based on reason or analysis, just an attempt to influence referees by rumour-mongering alone. With Joubert it worked, but all that has done is demonstrate his incompetence as a referee, and cast doubt on the value or importance of Bledisloe tests.

Just taking the first one as an example: I think a number of viewers are confusing the fact that Baxter face-plants with his arm in Woodcock’s armpit as meaning he bound there. However that is not the case – best to look at the slow mo for this, not only because it is slow but also it is a better view: Baxter lunges for the side of Woodcock’s jersey, quite deep in fact. He doesn’t get it (i.e. doesn’t grip it, which is what a bind must do) because Woodcock backs off and down. As they fall, Baxter withdraws his arm and grabs Woodcock’s arm-shoulder for support, but he is not attempting to bind, just to keep his spinal cord intact.

OJ has made the point on another thread (in defence of Joubert) that this all happens very quickly in real time, and there may be something in that. But we are discussing where and how Baxter bound, and when you see the slow-mo there is no bind by Baxter on the arm, and he doesn’t attempt to do so.

On the other hand, Woodcock places his hand forward in what looks superficially like a classic long bind, but never attempts to grab Baxter’s jersey.

I thought the penalty call was probably a bit harsh, but it was actually pretty similar to a call against Conrad Smith earlier, where Smith was pretty much prevented from rolling by attacking players, though it must be said Smith was in a position where he was affecting play more.

Also, look at the George Smith penalty where he claims Smith was ‘on his feet’ – his entire torso is horizontal, he’s blatantly not supporting his own weight so he’s off his feet and therefore offside.

And I’m not even sure why he included the Palu and Robinson calls, those were both spot on.

A couple of those calls were wrong, but most of the plays the video highlights are actually correct – the guy who made it simply doesn’t know the laws properly.

Thanks for the link. This youtube video should be compulsory viewing for anyone who thinks that Joubert knew what he was doing last Saturday night. There is no room for doubt – Woodcock simply failed to bind at all. This bears out what many have suspected for a long time – Al Baxter is the competent tight head, the one who is playing to the rules. The penalties on Saturday night for collapsing the scrum should have been given in Baxter’s favour.

Obviously Joubert should never have been put forward as a test referee in the first place. He is incapable of providing a fair result.

But this leads one to ask what has been going on in Tri-Nations for the last two or three years? The evidence that the Wallabies have been unfairly penalised in scrums on a regular basis is overwhelming, and that raises the question of how the Tri-Nations can be taken seriously as a competition.

Glad to see you agree with me. As long as you keep the All Blacks achievement in perspective (i.e. according to my post above), then we have no argument.

You asked the following “What have we seen from the ABs this season? They scraped a win against the world number 5 after losing the first one, and sent the Gallagher trophy off to France. They also made a pretty unconvincing win against the 12th ranked side Italy.

Well The first French test All Blacks missing 11 first choice players lets see how Australia or any other nation on earth goes missing 11 of their match day 22. All Blacks lost the Gallagher trophy oh well it happens at least we have trophies to lose…
NZ scrapped past Italy hmmm I don’t recall the Wallabies beating them by much more and at least the Italians never crossed the All Blacks try line oops did I bring up something you may like to have forgotten or are choosing to ignore.

Oh and most recently what have the All Blacks acheived hmmm I know they played some tough talking team, not quite sure who it was though I hear they were red hot and had talent to burn and were going to break a imaginary hoodoo that sits only in the mind of their players. Now who was it again????
Their number 10 is suppossedly as good if not better than Daniel Carter but from memory it was clear the underratted Stephen Donald left him for dust.
I know that they and their supporters have been and still are crying in to their cornflakes and blaming the ref and accusing the All Blacks of cheating.

Oh I get it now it can only be one of two countries. But as it’s the Tri-Nations it can be only one

The ALL BLACKS BEAT AUSTRALIA 22-16 extending their unbeaten run at Eden Park to 24years and a 4 match winning streak over our West Island neighbours.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=spotlight+on+joubert&search_type=&aq=f

Jerry G, happy to check the vid, but the link doesn’t appear to have come through on your post…?

Have a look at this little video (ironically put together to show how bad the reffing is) and you can see that Baxter binds on Woodcock’s arm or sleeve all 3 times and that Woodcock binds on Baxter’s jersey on the first and second penalties.

There was nothing wrong with Baxter’s binding, except when Woodcock didn’t bind at all and wouldn’t let Baxter get hold. Woodcock may have scrummaging skills but it was something else he demonstrated on Saturday night.

The comparison with Bakkies getting pinged in the Lions’ test is also instructive. On Saturday night, Joubert’s refereeing was bad in open play as well as the scrums – he missed a large number of infringements in open play (not just in fabour of one team I might add). This is the sort of low standard of refereeing that has allowed players like Bakkies to flourish, and it has to be stamped out. Fortunately the IRB is just starting to make an impact in this area – Bakkies’ suspension was a good start. Hopefully he will get the message – clean up his play, or retire.

Dean, note my reply on the refereeing article. Good to see that many others have seen the same thing I did.

On another note – for the RSA supporters, there were quite a few Botha style clearouts in the first TN game which weren’t penalised, so it looks like you were hard done by.

Thanks for the reference to that article which I hadn’t seen and is right on point re the refereeing controversy.

Wrong Mike. He was spot on. Have a look at the first two times Baxter was penalised. Have a look at my posts in this thread: http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/07/20/deans-exasperated-by-scrum-calls/

Joubert was correct.

Agree Joubert’s referring left much to be desired but a poor team effort at the breakdown cost the Wallabies the game moreso that Joubert. Also, why is it so often that when Wallabies spread the ball, the last 3 on the line are locks and front rowers. Tight 5 my arse!!

I am not talking about later on, I am talking about the first three penalties.

Baxter was warned by the ref because the ref didn’t hav a clue what he was looking at, and made an arbitrary decision to blame Baxter.

“He was bindingin te oppennts armpit i.e. the upper part of the arm”
Hello? Earth to Mark? Woodcock wasn’t binding at all, not even draping his arm over Baxter. Some props are subtle in the way they try to do this, but Woodcock didn’t even bother with subtlety – he didn’t have to, just rely on a referee who didn’t know what he was looking at, and Baxter’s “reputation”.

Chillo ut, it’s only a game, & it was one heck of a game too, frantic pace, great skills, & won by each side having a few botch ups.

Its about as smart as penalising a punched player for allowing his face to contact the other player’s fist.

As I said originally, incompetent and incomprehensible refereeing.