Comments on: The fifteenth Super rugby team is the NSW Cockatoos

By: AndyS

AndyS — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 02:42:02 +0000

It is certainly the first thing that springs to mind when you look at the geography. Once PE comes into the equation, two additional NSW teams (country & West Sydney) and one additional Q’ld team stick their hand up, along with PE interest in Victoria. Pity it wasn’t tried for the ARC, but then is that perhaps the second act? With the much more modest investment required at that lower level, probably not so difficult to see potential interest in Adelaide.

By: True Tah

True Tah — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:58:37 +0000

Good to see we have four tenders putting their foot forward, I still think its a no brainer that Melbourne should get the side though. The dark horse is the Gold Coast side, it would really hurt the Reds, but if its the guys I think that are behind it, then there will be some serious cash to splash.

I know Sheek will probably raise this, but we potentially could have an eight team national comp – Brumbies, Force, Tahs, Reds, Melbourne, NSW Country, Gold Coast and Western Sydney.

Transport costs would not be high given that most of the teams are close together, the only thing missing is a side in Adelaide, which would make it nine teams, meaning we would need an extra team somewhere, Im stumped as to where you would put it though.

By: Bay35Pablo

Bay35Pablo — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:54:31 +0000

So Rickety, what’s your pick for the Melbourne Cup? Whatever it is, I’m putting a thousaaaaand on it …

By: Rickety Knees

Rickety Knees — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:50:13 +0000

Hey guys take a look at:

NSW Country Cockatoos bid for new Super licence

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25811832-2722,00.html

By: Yikes

Yikes — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:45:34 +0000

Cracker – Jolly is correct with his analysis. Country run their own affairs just like any other sub-union. NSWRU is not Sydney-centric. Sydney Juniors and the Sydney Premiership are no less independent than Wollongong (Illawarra) or Newcastle are.

What evidence do you have to back up your claim? NSW Country Rugby is funded massively by NSWRU by comparison to Sydney Suburban.

By: Jolly Jupes

Jolly Jupes — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 05:03:46 +0000

AndyS perhaps a poor choice of word – I was meaning more politically correct as it the need to support regionally what is Australias largest playing population

By: Jolly Jupes

Jolly Jupes — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 05:00:40 +0000

By the way the Country Rugby Union are, by their own dealings, loosly part of NSWRU as they chose to deal and align directly with the ARU. It is therefore difficult for them to keep leaping the fence as they operate seperately from the NSWRU with their own board and structure, Sydney Juniors the same – neither are controlled by NSWRU they just co-habit for efficiency purposes – they exist but are not profit centres – this always falls back to the Tahs but everyone wants to spend the money

By: Working Class Rugger

Working Class Rugger — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 04:57:57 +0000

Jolly

Are you suggesting a split of the TV money based on player base.

By: AndyS

AndyS — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 04:55:33 +0000

I’m not querying how the NSWRU operates, or questioning its challenges or approach – you said ” boutique team in Sydneys West would be shackled politically”. My question was why that would be the case, located Sydney West or anywhere else. Surely that would only be true if it were also administered by NSWRU, as a private equity team would by definition have no allegience to any grassroots organisation.

By: Jolly Jupes

Jolly Jupes — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 04:41:30 +0000

AndyS – The Tahs “manage” 50% of the playing base the Brumbies and Force 15% between them. 50% of the tv rights goes to two very small development teams who can focus solely on developing s14 players. The Tahs and Reds have to look after their constituents and it is obvious that there is not enough money to do this. The only things in rugby that generate income are test matches and s14, the rest are costs. The cost part of the business does most of the talking/complaining, but they are part of the development process. The ARU is responsible for dividing the pie and are now in charge of development in rugby. The NSWRU is going backwards rapidly in terms of money so the post by WCR is typical of the pressure the Tahs are under that does not befall the Force or Brumbies yet they get 50% of the TV rights. They can pick and choose when they let their players play in the Shute shield without fear or sanction – Not an option in NSW and QLD. A second team in Sydney may spread the expectation load but it will also stretch the sponsorship market as this is divided already by 12 professional sporting teams (Not nearly the same in Perth or Canberra) But a team in the west would be expected to service and eventually they will also fall the way of the Tahs as everyone will be unhappy with the service. If the private equity team did as you say and operated without regard to clubs and development then this negative situation will develop quickly as the region will be let down – If the Tahs could operate in the same manner and just look after themselves then they could also take a tour to France and the Reds as well – If all the teams acted selfishly then there could be 140 players on tour in August not counting the Wallabies – How good would the shute shield quality be then? Who is responsible for supporting the shute shield, the best third tier we have – NSWRU because of geography; yes the Brumbies let their players play but its a function of convenience as they cannot afford or provide competiton for its players in the second half of the season. They are only giving back what they took in effect so it is not a great sacrifice. The Tahs are judged differently and in time a second Sydney team would also – Melbourne has its own pressures but the burden of expectation is less

By: Working Class Rugger

Working Class Rugger — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 04:03:01 +0000

The odd thing that I can’t understand about the whole National comp is that we had a format that covered a form of National championship in the Australian Rugby Shield. In the competition we had the Adelaide Black falcons, Darwin Mosquitos, Melbourne Axeman, Tasmania Jackjumpers,Perth Gold and ACT/Southern NSW alongside both NSW & QLD Country. This competition was run for years with teams crossing the continent to play one another. Why wouldn’t it be able to again? All they would need to do is add in Sydney, Western Sydney, North Sydney, Brisbane and the Gold Coast. They could base NSW Country permantly at either Newcastle or Woollongong and QLD Country in Townsville or perhaps Cairns.

By: sheek

sheek — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 03:39:46 +0000

On a serious note, the problem for both the NSW Country Cockatoos & Qld Country Heelers, is a lack of a permanent headquarters. While covering a huge area is an advantage in one respect, it’s a disadvantage in another respect.

And if they settled on Newcastle & Townsville as their respective primary home bases, how would other country folk react to this? Would it still be your team if you lived in say Bourke, or Roma? Perhaps yes, I don’t know.

If Australia ever developed a two-tiered national comp, I’m not sure I could ever see the two country teams being in 1st division anyway, even if you created an Eastern Australia & North Queensland. I would keep the two Country teams in 2nd division as developmental teams.

But again, this is pie in the sky stuff (wishful thinking).

By: AndyS

AndyS — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 03:27:25 +0000

Interesting point Jupes, shackled politically how? If they are a separate private equity team, why wouldn’t they just be going in and taking what they wish? They would have no constituency within club ranks and no alignment with the NSWRU…

By: Brett McKay

Brett McKay — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 03:27:07 +0000

Rickety, being ex-country NSW myself, the only issue I’d have with your plan would be the concept of the NSW Country mascot (and presumably black and gold colours) playing out of western Sydney. Yes the idea of taking games to the country is valid, but the corporates would never allow it..

Good get with the “quote” too…

By: Working Class Rugger

Working Class Rugger — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 03:24:26 +0000

The NSWRU must do more to support and grow the game not only in Sydney specifically Western Sydney and Country NSW. They need to develop there own programs and mobilise more Development Officer’s to encourage kids to play the game. Most importantly establish proper schools competitions.

The Country Cockatoos would be a great entry into some sort of National comp, but realistically they should at least try to gain access to the Sydney competition. Although I’d prefer if Hunter, Illawarra and Central Coast were given the opportunity to compete first.

The next Super 15 team will be from Melbourne be it run by the VRU or Melbourne Victory. I also believe that the ARU and SARU should begin to start working more intensively to develop SA/Adelaide as a Rugby base through development intiatives like establishing clubs, getting more schools playing, At least one Test match on a yearly basis and growing the Black Falcons brand. Why do I believe this needs to be done. Because eventually we’ll have a sixth team. and SA/adelaide must be its location. QLD,NSW,ACT,VIC,SA and WA not a bad spread. With development squads in NT and Tas.

By: Jolly Jupes

Jolly Jupes — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 03:16:58 +0000

I notice the Brumbies have announced a 28 man touring squad for a four game tour of France next month. They have picked an number of hopefuls from the Sydney club comp (with a promise of a couple of academy contracts) and their absence will dent the hopes of a few clubs for a couple of weeks. The reality is the Brumbies need to bolster their depth for the tour and have chosen a bunch of fromer Waratah Academy players to make up the numbers. If the Waratahs did this in season there would be uproar and carnage in the club scene. Their Tahs have always had to program their development tours in the post club season. I will be interested if there is a any significant reaction or this goes through to the keeper which I bet it will. This highlights a glaring problem in the Australian rugby scene. The Tahs are obligated to be politically correct and support the Shute Shield, the Brumbies have no such obligation and worse expectation. They do as they please without sanction and in fact get admired for it. A boutique team in Sydneys West would be shackled politically most likely so placing a team in Melbourne would have the better chance of overall success

By: Rickety Knees

Rickety Knees — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 02:50:44 +0000

Thanks Pablo – the main thrust of where I am coming from is to tap into the huge pool of talent in Sydney’s west – that is why this fantasy team would have to be based in Parramatta and play the bigger games there. I really like the idea of playing other games at Gosford, Newcastle, Bathurst and say Armidale.

By: Cracker

Cracker — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 02:08:50 +0000

Victoria should and will get the 15th s14 team but as someone living in northern NSW I like the idea of a Country/West Sydney team.

Yikes – The NSWRU is Sydney-centric no arguement. This is to be expected to some extent but much of NSW Country, even Newcastle and Wollongong, are largely left to their own devices in the way they are run. Sure there are some development officers about and they do a great job. Several years ago the Brumbies were having an increased presence across country NSW and the interest and enthusiasm they showed caused many people to hope that country would be brought under the Brumbies umbrella. As it is NSW Country is a primary breeding ground for the Brumbies, more so than the Waratahs, mainly due to player numbers in their respective areas.

By: Bay35Pablo

Bay35Pablo — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 02:02:05 +0000

Rickety, love it. Have thought this myself before.

My vote is for Melbourne, but if they were going to award it to western Sydney I’d go with your idea instead. However, play out of Newcastle and Gosford, and at least one game in a large country centre every season (although imagine the whinging from overseas teams about the extra travel). Perhaps Penrith …

By: Rickety Knees

Rickety Knees — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 01:48:10 +0000

Thanks Guys – it is a fantasy article.

Sheek I am onside with you – I too would love to see a national comp and what you propose makes a whole lot of sense. It is the gaping hole in Australian Rugby that needs to be filled.

By: Ben C

Ben C — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 01:42:16 +0000

Everyone “in the know” understands that the Launceston Bumble Bees or Alice Springs Devils are front runners for the next super franchise. Melbourne, Gold Coast and Western/Country NSW are far down the list after these two.

By: Rah Rah Rasputin

Rah Rah Rasputin — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 01:24:18 +0000

I agree with Ed, but with the expanded Super 15 the NSWRU will have a few more home games up its sleeves – 8 or 9 I think – and should look at hosting a few afternoon games up at Blue Tongue Stadium.

By: Pippinu

Pippinu — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 01:03:00 +0000

It’s a pity that the galahs nick name is already taken.

By: sheek

sheek — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:54:49 +0000

Rickety,

If I had my way, NSW would be carved up into 3 Australian Provinces.

1. New South Wales Waaraths – Covering basically central & western NSW. Home base Sydney.

2. ACT or Monaro Brumbies – Covering southern NSW. Home base Canberra.

3. Eastern Australia Cockatoos – Covering northern NSW. Home base Newcastle.

Throw in Queensland Rampant Reds, Western Australia Force, South Australia Balck Falcons, Victoria Rebels & either Border (Gold Coast) Breakers or North Queensland Heelers & voila, there’s a top-notch 8 team national comp. Not that it will ever happen.

But of course, this is another story entirely.

By: sheek

sheek — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:48:15 +0000

Rickety,

Be careful you don’t totally collapse there. Country Cockatoos? Sorry, no cigar.

Agree with others, Victoria next stop. Otherwise, I’ll give the game away!

By: Yikes

Yikes — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:45:43 +0000

Rickety Knees – To say NSWRU shows no interest in promoting rugby beyond Sydney is just a bald-faced lie.

Unitl 2009, there were rugby development staff in each country zone (9 of them) compared to just 3 development staff for the entirety of Sydney metro (2 in Western Sydney and 1 in Southern Sydney). Country has been FAR better looked after than metro Sydney. And the North Shore has had no-one. Despite your assertion.

This compares to ARL which has roughly 35 officers in NSW. AFL similar or more as far as I know. NRL has 10 NSW teams playing 26 matches to make their money. Rugby has one NSW team playing 6 matches.

The Brumbies took over Southern NSW because it simply made sense. It still does.

By: True Tah

True Tah — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:17:19 +0000

I certainly look forward to the day the Cockatoos do join the top tier of professional rugby in Australia, but the reality is Victoria is a priority.

One thing you neglected to mention was that the team represents more than just the Central Coast and Western Sydney, at least one game a year should be played in the country, maybe Bathurst, Tamworth, Lismore?

By: Ed

Ed — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:20:07 +0000

F*#k u scared me for a second. I thought that was a legite quote.

I agree it is something that needs to happen soon, but melbourne must be first. Professional rugby needs to expand quickly.