Burgess is a leftie so the right foot box kicks are tougher for him – not an excuse but you cannot compare him to Gregan as they were asked to play and did play very different games. gregan was a faiclitator of an extensive playbook who coupled with the intelligent larkham spent 99% of the time passing the ball to someone. He only kicked in the last season when Connelly arrived on the scene and brought some NH tactics. It was not great either. Burgess is being asked to play a tempo game that has significant volumes of kicking and field position tactics; he also has to pass to players who are playing what is in front of them so this is very unpredictable and I think this is acknowledged by Giteau. Gregan had a massive play book and people were coached to be in certain places – this is surely an easier environment to deliver better passes. yes Burgess can improve things technically but he tackles and provides enthusiasm. There was a test a few years back in Cape Town where the Boks won win a pick and drive game – hard to believe with their attack only about 20m wide gregan never made a tackle in the entire test – I saw the stats on a sa website and funnily enough was not surprised

You are trying to compare apples with oranges

Gregans pass was fine. Larkham said it hit him on the chest every time. Regardless………………….you incessant knockers….

Give Burgess a go . He’s been great this season and if you put Genia up you blokes will be crucifying him within three games

He’s such a good looking young man. Surely that counts for something?

I’m always willing to support a fellow Aussie born in PNG! BTW, what about Nic Berry by comparison?

Justin,

I understand, but Deans has selected Burgess to date for his other skills, hoping his passing will improve along the way. At present, that hasn’t happened. I must confess Valentine is my favourite for the #9 position.

It’s a horses for courses, isn’t it? Gregan couldn’t pass particularly well or fast, but he was chosen for other attributes he brought to the team. It’s a tough gig, being a selector…..

Sheek – the point is there are much better passes of the ball than Burgess and that is criteria one for a 9. Valentine kills him from the deck but he doesnt make the breaks Burgess does.

The problem Deans faces is that they’re still the best we have in their positions. At the moment anyway. Australian rugby isn’t blessed with the great depth of NZ or SA rugby unfortunately. Not to the same extent anyway.

“Passing is not a ‘natural’ talent. I’ve been a halfback for about 10 years now and my pass has improved every year…”

So if you started from a harbour bridge style of pass to a Nick Far Jones style of pass, and it takes 10 years, what hope are we talking about.

To make a good steak, you must first find a good piece of meat.

Let’s just admit it. Burgess need to go back to club games or whatever until he improves on his passing (first thing). The other more difficult thing for him to improve on is his composure. He makes silly errors under pressure – maybe not choke, but overawed. He has not shown much grey matter in the way he plays the last 15 tests.

If Bray is a burgess supporter then greg martin is at the complete opposite end of the spectrum, jumps on any opportunity to crucify him – on saturday he blamed a wasted attacking opportunity from an O’connor knockon on burgess – he also blamed burgess for a pass over the touch line when the referee stopped the wallaby running onto it

Criticism must be shared by a whole host of underperformers on Saturday – Mortlock plays like a prop (zero speed), Barnes cost us an early try, Giteau’s goalkicking was substandard and he went missing for most of the match, George Smith gives away way too many penalties, Baxter is hated by the refs, Turner and Mitchell make bad decisions, Brown was average at best…

A) giteau the vastly overrated (and untouchable re: criticism it would seem following his equally bad game) not standing 15m back when he couldn’t kick the ball out on the full anyway
B) giteau not having the world’s slowest kicking motion (he regularly gets charged down when passes hit him on the chest)
C) giteau stepping or checking his kick, not continuing on regardless

Burgess has been our form player so far this test season…one bad game shouldn’t mean he gets dropped

I don’t think it matters which way you cut it – Genia gave his backs flatter, faster ball than Burgo did.

Hospital passes do not make it easy for your backline to work and give the opposition too much time. Burgo fails to deliver on this critical benchmark, despite the fact he is a team player and a decent ball runner etc etc.

Back to club rugby with him, let him mature on his own schedule and not during a Bledisloe series.

We need another option immediately. Valentine had a great season with the Force, pitching the ball to… guess who… Gits. Likewise, Holmes and Genia have better passing games and the ball in hand will always win you a game.

Deans shoudl cut him from the match 22 for the Springboks and send him back to Club rugby where he needs to do nothing but pass quikcly and under pressure.

You are generally pretty spot on about the game of Rugby, but your defence of Burgess sounds like a doting father defending his son’s failing.

First big error came right after we scored our try. The ABs were rev-up to equalize. Punt the ball up field and a ruck formed. Ball came out to Burgess and what did he do. He could have pass it to any kicker to punt it down, but instead did a silly boix kick that went out on the full. From the ensuing turn-over, McCaw scored.
Burgess dumb kick cost us 7 points.

At some stage of the play, he lost composure and ran behind Behn Robinson. Child’s play causing obstruction.
Dumb give away of 3 points.

Instead of doing a box kick this time behind the ruck when the ABs are on the front foot, he chooses to pass his famour harbour bridge pass to Giteau.
Lucky that a try was not scored from that, or smith being sin bin. Another 3 points.

Despite what I have been reading about the bad refereeing and Baxter’s weakness, they weren’t the ball breaker. The 13 points that Burgess contributed against us lost us the game.

Burgess (I am sure) is a nice young fellow and probably a great team man, but his lack of composure, the speed between his ears and his passing skills are sadly club rugby standard at best.

I do like his sniping and was his supporter for a while and had often wondered why he has not been picked earlier. He is 26 and had been out-picked at the Brumbies and Waratahs for a few years. Now it makes more sense.

LAS, passing ability (long and sharp) is natural. The first thing a coach does in trialling young aspirants is to get them to pass the ball long. If it does not go far and sharp, there is very little the coach can do about it.

Bring on Will Genia – I like the way he just picks and throws rather than doing the Gregan, which Burgess tends to do.

Genia looked ok… but looked GREAT in comparison to Burgess.

All,

Even the most ardent Burgess supporters (and I’ve been one of them) must now admit he had a shocker and it’s worth giving Genia a longer run next test. But lets not swing the pendulum too far – let’s not call for Burgess throat nor expect Genia to be our instant saviour.

Will Genia and Richard Kingi are new products with much potential in my eyes and should both be looked at but I still see Josh Valentine as more reliable than any of these options. Valentine and Genia should be the half-backs in coming tests.

Yes Valentine lacks as much size and flair but he gets the basic business done. Kudos to him.

Maybe, Genia’s arrival will be the catalyst. the Wallabies are the winner. depth.

The squad can look up at the head and realise we are NOT heading in the right direction, improving or better that last year….WE LOST and Burgess unfortunately was a major factor in that.

It is not good enough. His kicking is not up to scratch. Out on the full, charged down, too long, too short…. At this level players should be aiming to make errors / mistakes rarely. Burgess racks several up every match and they usually end up costing his side dearly eg kicking it out on the full on Saturday eventually leading to AB try.

Sure he runs well with the ball but the fundamental, No 1 priority for a 9 is that he can pass. Burgess cannot pass well.

Holmes has not progressed since he left NSW and he is not the answer.

Genia looks the goods, he has a very good pass and is non stop.

We have a good backline, it needs to be able to get the ball early and going forward. Not waiting for the movement to start after Giteau catcheds the ball.

I look forward to the day when we see the Wallaby backline getting fast ball, going forward. Think how much better Giteau / Barnes could be if they receive d the ball in front of them and quickly.