Questions on Buckley’s Man Management ability [Part 2]

Roar Pro

By NUFCMVFC, 23 Jul 2009 The Crowd is a Roar Pro

Tagged:: A-League, Ben Buckley, football, Frank Lowy, Tony Sage

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The FFA’s fan management is an absolute shambles. One only has to look at Liam Pender’s “Could the FFA’s grip on the A-league be suffocating its fans?” article on this website for an indication.

One can see the FFA’s tendency towards disregarding the fans desires to facilitate an empowered football culture – a tendency that has led to festering tensions.

The reasoning is quite flawed, too.

The FFA have often harped on the fact that their policies were on the basis of recommendations of a review. The problem here is that this review was conducted by people with no previous football experience and it did not involve any engagement with the fans.

It is quite predictably inadequate, as proved through the fact that, despite Buckley establishing that the Cove and old SCC needed to be herded into the same space like cattle so they could be “watched,” in the very first match of the season, a fight broke out in the HEM area.

All the cameras could do was record.

More able advice would have related to facilitating preventative crowd management procedures based on interaction and positional deployment. The football media have given the issue no attention, but the underlying truth is that the FFA’s security review preceding the 2008/2009 season was bungled and horrifically mismanaged and is a contributing factor in alarming trends that are occurring.

The article goes on also to allude to the FFA’s attempts to impose allocated seating. In terms of Melbourne, this overrided an agreement forged on the basis of mutual respect between fans, club and stadium to break an impasse that had ensued during the 2007/2008 A League season (season 3).

Fan’s desire to continue with the system that had provided stable, boisterous and colourful support during the 2008 ACL group stage was overrided on a condescending “we won’t be dictated to by fans” policy, underpinning their shutting out of the process.

Predictably this led to marginalisation and associated security problems.

In the region of 35 flares were lit during a pre-season game at Green Gully, delaying the start of the second half. No one purchased into the HEM area, given its violation of a core fan principle of institutional independence, leading to scattered active fans in several different areas of the stadiums and giving rise to conflict situations in the first few rounds of the season.

It is worth mentioning that Adelaide fans had the same issues with the HEM system, but their smaller numbers meant the same dynamic played out on a smaller scale.

No less relevant, though.

This is without touching on other issues, such as the Eureka flag and Buckley’s insulting remarks that fans desire to use the flags out of patriotism empowered an anti-social psyche.

Of course, the Perth fans are obstructed from celebrating their history because “they became a new element” in the minds of the FFA so, therefore, their history no longer existed.

They also had to put up with FFA attempts to change their team’s sacred colours and put a “horrendous” (probably NQ Fury like) kit in its place.

Fortunately, Tony Sage made a stand.

This is without mentioning FFA’s effective inaction to club owner’s threats to throw active fans of the Jets over balconies, and other problems, which extends to national team fans.

Active fans are often denied the use of drumsticks because “they aren’t FFA approved”, leading to the absurd situation of having to use air horns and a squeaky toy whale instead.

The FFA need to be careful.

While there is a need for assertiveness and decisiveness to roll-out, much needed and well-focused reforms such as youth and coaching development, there are certain areas within football that it is understood a more “democratic” approach works best.

Taking a democratic approach is distinct from allowing different power bases that enabled the chronic infighting of previous years that crippled football.

It is a matter of trying to facilitate everyone’s interests for the optimum outcome for football and ensuring enthusiastic motivation, such as was the case with Melbourne’s “ACL system.”

The FFA are running the risk of a Government that has been in power for too long and slowly marginalises people through disrespect and scandal after scandal. Football is not like the AFL or NRL, where there is only one league.

Despite being committed to local football, people will only put up with so much disrespect. With football, there are plenty of other leagues and teams of resonance to fans or “substitute products” that fans can put their time, energy and money into.

There is some cause for optimism.

The AFC’s Pro League requirements should hopefully lead to the necessary change in structure so as to allow clubs more appropriate influence, leading to a proper balancing of the football fraternity powerbase.

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The Crowd Says (56) | Page 1 of Comments

Midfielder said | July 23rd 2009 @ 9:31am | Report comment

The Roar is developing itself into a respected independent outlet.. I am aware from personal posting and experience that RU officials read this site… my example in a couple of RU threads last year I posted that the ..”"Eastwood Rugby Club’s sign at the end of Rowe street in Eastwood was in disrepair and over grown…”"” , it has been fixed after years of getting to the state it had. Did my post have anything to do with it …errrrrrrr fixed within a few weeks after years of getting worse..

I assume (rightly or wrongly) that this post will get the attention of .. SBS (given we have three of their senior sport journals writing on the site), Fox & SMH…. also I believe the FFA will monitor this site. So guys this is an important thread not a whinge at BB.

Meaning hopefully the message is getting through .. we do not want another Glory Boys and the shed mistake made by JON in Hal 1, .. that resulted in many Glory Boys walking away from the club as well as Nick Tanna.

Of course there are two sides to the coin and some actions by HE support groups have the potential to do harm to the image of Football ….in the Australian sense of crowd behavior established by other sporting bodies…. To this extent HE need to be careful they do not scare away other potential supporters…

To me what is ….SCREAMING AND VERY OBVIOUS ….. is 1) the HE want the game to grow, 2) the HE want to have fun and sign and shout at matches.. 3) other codes media reporters are waiting to pounce on any trouble and Publish Till They Die any problems… in summary FFA do not want the bad press or families scared away ..HE want to have fun…

To me it is time for the FFA to take some proactive action… first they should meet HE groups and establish a code of acceptable behaviour with both sides giving some ground… then publish this as this is what can be expected if you go to HE… it takes away attacks from agenda driven media, and will give the HE a sense of belonging to the A-League and a part of developing football … resulting in I am sure an increase in crowds and a greater understanding of the HE by the general public..

The next step ids for the FFA along with clubs and HE groups to approach stadium management develop procedures and sort out security issues … SFC (Ha first time I have not slagged this club for years) but SFC under the new club management sat down with the HE and held such a meeting to sort out seating, spaces to keep flags, some fence space left for sings etc…

Ben be pro active the HE are footballs friend and can be used to a mutual benefit… the hard line management will not work they are not splinter groups as PG showed they are a major part of the crowd and will watch TV… The HE are important in Football growth but equally the HE need to be aware we are not playing in Europe or South America and comprise and establishing acceptable codes of conduct or behaviour assist greatly in talking the game forward..

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Pippinu said | July 23rd 2009 @ 9:52am | Report comment

I think it’s true that in the last few years the FFA has erred on the side of caution, perhaps a bit too much.

But we can all understand why they may have gone into it with that frame of mind.

There is a paradox at play – the A-League has been quite successful at garnering decent support from the 15 to 25 male demographic – that’s the good news – but you’d have to have rocks in your head if you thought that demographic will deliver a viable competition in the long term.

It won’t.

This is what underpins the FFA thinking on the subject.

As for the right for fans to be heard – it’s true up to a point – my knowledge of VFL/.AFL history (over last 30 years) is that there is a lot to be said for completely ignoring what the fans are saying!!!! (who usually are quite clueless about strategic considerations or anything beyond the current season)

Non-Victorians won’t understand what I am saying – so I will spell it out – the AFL has created the most successful football competition in the land by pretty ignoring everything Victorian football fans have demanded, who have been lead kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

So yes, a fair bit of the 15 to 25 male demographic may ultimately be lost to the local game – my guess is that BB has done his sums and concluded that doesn’t hurt the long term viability of the A-League.

Conclusion: it’s a very fine balancing act – I agree that BB and the FFA probably went a liitle too far on the side of caution – we might see some tweaking back to a balanced position – but don’t expect major surgery on this subject – that won’t happen.

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Tom said | July 23rd 2009 @ 10:05am | Report comment

Agree with Pip. Good post.

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Koala Bear said | July 23rd 2009 @ 10:33am | Report comment

Why don’t you guys just enjoy what is out there instead of looking for something to whinge and complain about…? Just enjoy the football on offer… Put all of your energies into supporting your club you follow whether it’s within a supporter’s group, or with just a few mates… By all means yell abuse towards the referee, the linesmen, the opposition, the opposing fans, (all in good friendly banter) for the 90min, but when the final whistle blows for full time … leave it out there on the park and retreat back to your favourite waterhole; have a quiet beer after the match, to either rejoice your team’s victory, or drown your sorrows with your team’s missed chances… After all it’s only a game… The FFA have done extremely well for 5 years… However, in saying that, not all I have agreed with… But that’s life… Believe me; the sun will rise again the next day…

~~~~~~
KB

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Midfielder said | July 23rd 2009 @ 11:24am | Report comment

Ben Buckley & other Roar poster.

Ben, just a moment to explain this post to other Roar regular posters… To regular posters just hang with me in this post it has a purpose hopefully you get by the time it is finished.

Ben, the Roar is an independent Online sports media company as I understand it. As I understand it to make money.. It employs and pays three top journalist to run blogs on football, plus a number of other paid journalist also write on football on this site.

However this is one of the few media organisations that provide football with equal media coverage to other sports… furthermore many of the posters on this site are among Australia best and respected bloggers..

Ben, this article is very important and comes from a well respected football blogger …. think about using the HE’s for your advantage… and please remember people like NUFCMVFC are very committed to making football work and they have street knowledge which is valuable..

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Midfielder said | July 23rd 2009 @ 11:25am | Report comment

KB

Agree with you 100% that what the FFA have done is brilliant to date … having said that there is something of an issue with the HE’s … nothing IMO that can not be sorted out…

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whiskeymac said | July 23rd 2009 @ 11:53am | Report comment

i would love for there to be a vibrant, pulsating crowd (and noise) akin to the EPL but surely if the game catered predominatley to the colourful, but with a propensity for (let’s be honest) stupidity, 15-25o male demographic, would that not be counter productive to making the game mainstream. Mainstream means family friendly. It’s not so much a balance of the prawn sandwich brigade and yobs, but between embracing a wider spectrum of the community.

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GeneralAshnak said | July 23rd 2009 @ 11:59am | Report comment

The aim of the FFA should be to increase tha atmosphere at a match without compromising the aim for the HAL to have a broad market appeal. This can most easily be done by consultation with the various interest groups that the game has. One thing that should not be stopped at any cost is the use of music at a game to help drive the supporters. Getting the crowd active is a vital part of any match and should be the primary concern of the various supporter groups.

One thing I have noticed is that the majority of the supporter groups are young men and the chants that tend to be used basically revolve around how many times they can say the f-bomb in a 30 second period. Boring. I don’t mind the occasional foul chant, and have been known to express the odd vulgarity myself at a game, but when they make up 90% or more of the main supporter groups efforts it is a bit disheartening.

I understand where Pip is coming from, the AFL run a very successful game where crowd trouble is at a bare minimum and have achieved this by stamping their authority from the word go. However football is a growing game in Australia, by reducing the ability of the core supporters to show their passion for their team, and provide life and colour to the game, we limit the potential appeal of the sport.

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Midfielder said | July 23rd 2009 @ 12:06pm | Report comment

GA

Agree that is why I think the FFA & HE need to come together

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Art Sapphire said | July 23rd 2009 @ 1:27pm | Report comment

I would like to make a few points on this contentious issue.

Midfielder, I hope for your sake that Ben or someone at the FFA does get to read this.

I have been a member of Melbourne Victory since Season 1 and I have followed events both on and off the field.

The culture of football support can take on many guises due to the global nature of the game. For example, in Melbourne there are 2 home ends of active support.

An active European style of support with co-ordinated chanting led by a capo, jumping, flags, banners, streamers etc evolved at the North End of Olympic Park. A more relaxed English style of support evolved at the South End.

These 2 sets now occupy the 2 ends at Victory matches.

The problem is that the European style of support is seen as threatening and foreign by the local authorities who have grown up on the culture of AFL and have very little knowledge of different types of independent football support and culture.

Unfortunately, the FFA and the people who advise them have proved themselves to just as ignorant.

Here is one example I observed from last season:

The deployment of so called “riot police” in overalls at Victory home games to control active Victory supporters in the “North End” in matches involving Sydney and Adelaide.

If there is ever going to be trouble at a game, you would think it would be between rival sets of supporters. But you had this ridiculous situation of “riot police” in amongst the active Victory supporters who were trying to enjoy the match experience. There is very little likelihood of trouble ever happening as EVERYONE supports the same team.

If there is trouble, the usual quota of uniformed officers that are deployed to A-League matches at Docklands are on hand to deal with any issue. Also, the supporters do not have a problem with uniformed officers as they are there every match day and can understand their presence.

The upshot is we have a set of supporters who felt like they were being targeted for the crime of being active supporters.

This, I believe, did not happen at any other venue in the country.

Here is a case where the need for consultation between the FFA, clubs and supporters was non-existent and it led to a misguided policy outcome.

Will it be the same this season?

Furthermore, it is the height of hypocrisy when -

1) The FFA used Melbourne Victory active supporters to make the A-League “attractive, exciting and different” in their advertising campaign. (Jumping supporters, stadium shaking, 90 minutes, 90 emotions)

2) Melbourne Victory supporters are constantly feted by Fox commentators for being the best in the land.

3) The same Fox commentators and the whole football community then go on about the wonderful active J-League supporters. These are the same J-League fans who adopted European style active support. Didn’t everyone look on in admiration when we saw Urawa Red Diamonds supporters in the ACL final??

If someone at the FFA or even on this forum can figure all this out for me I will be most grateful.

Finally, I need to make this important point. I am not a member of any supporter group. I attend home games at Docklands with friends, family etc and sit in Level 3 as I prefer to watch the game from a better vantage point. But, I do appreciate, the efforts all active supporters make to support their team and generate an atmosphere at all A-League games.

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