Questions on Buckley’s Man Management ability [Part 2]
Roar Guru By NUFCMVFC, 23 Jul 2009 The Crowd is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- A-League, Ben Buckley, football, Frank Lowy, Tony Sage
The FFA’s fan management is an absolute shambles. One only has to look at Liam Pender’s “Could the FFA’s grip on the A-league be suffocating its fans?” article on this website for an indication.
One can see the FFA’s tendency towards disregarding the fans desires to facilitate an empowered football culture – a tendency that has led to festering tensions.
The reasoning is quite flawed, too.
The FFA have often harped on the fact that their policies were on the basis of recommendations of a review. The problem here is that this review was conducted by people with no previous football experience and it did not involve any engagement with the fans.
It is quite predictably inadequate, as proved through the fact that, despite Buckley establishing that the Cove and old SCC needed to be herded into the same space like cattle so they could be “watched,” in the very first match of the season, a fight broke out in the HEM area.
All the cameras could do was record.
More able advice would have related to facilitating preventative crowd management procedures based on interaction and positional deployment. The football media have given the issue no attention, but the underlying truth is that the FFA’s security review preceding the 2008/2009 season was bungled and horrifically mismanaged and is a contributing factor in alarming trends that are occurring.
The article goes on also to allude to the FFA’s attempts to impose allocated seating. In terms of Melbourne, this overrided an agreement forged on the basis of mutual respect between fans, club and stadium to break an impasse that had ensued during the 2007/2008 A League season (season 3).
Fan’s desire to continue with the system that had provided stable, boisterous and colourful support during the 2008 ACL group stage was overrided on a condescending “we won’t be dictated to by fans” policy, underpinning their shutting out of the process.
Predictably this led to marginalisation and associated security problems.
In the region of 35 flares were lit during a pre-season game at Green Gully, delaying the start of the second half. No one purchased into the HEM area, given its violation of a core fan principle of institutional independence, leading to scattered active fans in several different areas of the stadiums and giving rise to conflict situations in the first few rounds of the season.
It is worth mentioning that Adelaide fans had the same issues with the HEM system, but their smaller numbers meant the same dynamic played out on a smaller scale.
No less relevant, though.
This is without touching on other issues, such as the Eureka flag and Buckley’s insulting remarks that fans desire to use the flags out of patriotism empowered an anti-social psyche.
Of course, the Perth fans are obstructed from celebrating their history because “they became a new element” in the minds of the FFA so, therefore, their history no longer existed.
They also had to put up with FFA attempts to change their team’s sacred colours and put a “horrendous” (probably NQ Fury like) kit in its place.
Fortunately, Tony Sage made a stand.
This is without mentioning FFA’s effective inaction to club owner’s threats to throw active fans of the Jets over balconies, and other problems, which extends to national team fans.
Active fans are often denied the use of drumsticks because “they aren’t FFA approved”, leading to the absurd situation of having to use air horns and a squeaky toy whale instead.
The FFA need to be careful.
While there is a need for assertiveness and decisiveness to roll-out, much needed and well-focused reforms such as youth and coaching development, there are certain areas within football that it is understood a more “democratic” approach works best.
Taking a democratic approach is distinct from allowing different power bases that enabled the chronic infighting of previous years that crippled football.
It is a matter of trying to facilitate everyone’s interests for the optimum outcome for football and ensuring enthusiastic motivation, such as was the case with Melbourne’s “ACL system.”
The FFA are running the risk of a Government that has been in power for too long and slowly marginalises people through disrespect and scandal after scandal. Football is not like the AFL or NRL, where there is only one league.
Despite being committed to local football, people will only put up with so much disrespect. With football, there are plenty of other leagues and teams of resonance to fans or “substitute products” that fans can put their time, energy and money into.
There is some cause for optimism.
The AFC’s Pro League requirements should hopefully lead to the necessary change in structure so as to allow clubs more appropriate influence, leading to a proper balancing of the football fraternity powerbase.
Recommend this story.
- Explore:
- A-League, Ben Buckley, football, Frank Lowy, Tony Sage
July 23rd 2009 @ 1:50pm
Towser said | July 23rd 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
As a Roar fan & of KB’s vintage I tend at first glance side with his views. Personally my sole purpose in attending Roar matches is to support the team for better or worse. The only way the FFA could prevent me attending is if they made it mandatory that I sat next to Rolf Harris every match ,or that whinging French Eurosnob prat, who was in luv with Fabregas & Arsenal when we played Adelaide last season.
Having said that though I’m not 25 or half pissed when I enter the stadium,so I have a clear view of whats before me. Let me tell you what I see at The Roar regarding the Home end. To be honest its pathetic in comparison to other clubs supporters the away end is invariably louder. Bullshit aargh or your shit aargh is about as inventive as they get normally,although I;m sure against Celtic they tried a few new chants, but the Hoops fans drowned them out so I couldnt hear.It has at least one group which is a splinter group which sits I believe at the away supporters end. I say their there,because somebody told me they were ,a mouse makes more noise.
Let me clarify one thing as I ramble. I luv the hardcore singing chanting,clever banter supporters. Its part of why I watch football. Having seen both sides of the coin having followed Wednesday when polite clapping & a raucous cheer was the norm I much prefer the support of the modern era.
If the A-League lost this it would be all the poorer. It creates an atmosphere as has been mentioned.
So whilst I can say put up or shut up from my perspective & am in fact cutting off my nose to spite my face.
As GeneralAshnak said:- “Getting the crowd active is a vital part of any match and should be the primary concern of the various supporter groups.”
As fans like me(with families we are the majority at Roar matches anyway) arent directly involved in this stoush with the FFA it needs to be sorted. By sorted that means that both sides have to sit down & iron it out. The young singing chanting & lets admit half pissed fan is “modern day football” not my upbringing, but for the generation were talking about its all they’ve seen.
So what do you do. Well NUFCMVFC unlike your judgement of the FFA(& it is extremely harsh,the CEO played football in Scotland) I do have a lifetime of football experience both in England & in Australia. There needs to be a consideration in this of the singing & chanting football culture in an Australian enviroment. Firstly take where it came from England/UK in the sixties . I was still there then & the crowd was predominantly working class male. Not much of a problem for this demographic to accept the Singing,chanting culture of mainly young men. Because they were male & had come from the same working class background(ie drank beer & luved a scrap on a Saturday night) it didnt phase them.
Lets now view Australia in the same time frame. We had the NSL ran mainly(& I was a regular attendee) for fans from a single Ethnic community. Also a Male dominated enviroment. However it also had another element not seen in most countries a racial element. This often spilled over at a match. Exaggerated often,but always well publicised by which was to me (as a migrant) a media hostile to Association football. Johnny Warren didnt write SW&P because he was high on drugs.
However the degree of blame ,exaggeration are irrelevant,an image was set of a sport beset by violent outbursts by spectators with some truth attached to that image. One can hardly then blame the FFA for being cautious.
But a solution has to be found & it has to be resolved as is always the case by a compromise reflecting local conditions absorbing what is essentially what I would call a “World” culture(not foreign because that would assume its still primarily an English trait with English values like the invention of football itself,which clearly its not).
As the crowds in Australia at Football matches have not evolved from “working class male culture” you cannot have splinter supporter groups spread around the stadium in Australia without upsetting other fans. You have to have all “Home End” fans in the same home end. This was what happened essentially at the Celtic match. A wonderful sea of the Hoop fans singing & chanting their songs. The young lad next to me on a working holiday from Glasgow had a tear in his eye as he sang with gusto. Thats what has to be done in Australia. That is the compromise Supporters groups have to make in reference to the nature of football support here. Flip the coin & that also means that the FFA has to allocate seating at the stadium where these fans can express themselves(within the law) in as raucous a manner as they see fit.
Some will get drunk(young men particularly always get drunk) & may get out of hand. Generally I dont see Australias young people acting in the “hooligan ” manner as in England due to very different social upbringing.
But if they do,just do what they did at the Celtic match. The security staff had no trouble handling the drunken streakers.
July 23rd 2009 @ 2:20pm
Pippinu said | July 23rd 2009 @ 2:20pm | Report comment
Hey Mid – who’s this Ben you’ve addressed your post to??!! I can’t see any of his posts!!
July 23rd 2009 @ 2:31pm
Ben of Phnom Penh said | July 23rd 2009 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
I must admit, Pip, that I had to check that it wasn’t me when I first glanced at Midfielder’s post
July 23rd 2009 @ 2:53pm
Pippinu said | July 23rd 2009 @ 2:53pm | Report comment
Mid clearly knows something we don’t know!!
C’mon Mid – spill the beans!!
July 23rd 2009 @ 3:02pm
melbvictory87 said | July 23rd 2009 @ 3:02pm | Report comment
well thank god some1 came out and wrote this article. HERE IS THE OPINION OF A MELBOURNE VICTORY FAN ABOUT FFA’S STUPID POLICIES. season 2 was our best on record, our attendances were staggering, lets have a look why. fans were allowed to sit behind the goals and support their team however they chose with the exception of flairs. i took 7 never been before people to the games with me to sit there and sing and they alll lvoed it. in fact it was such a huge success that next year we hit a membership record. now lets have a look at season 3. FFA said your not allowed to sit behind the goals anymore unless you have a membership, therefore excluding first time football viewers from the best possible expirience. instead we now had to sit on the dry and dull level 3 with no atmosphere and little joy being so far away from the crowd. WHAT HAPPENED NEXT????? our numbers began to decline. WHY? because when people came out of curiousity they got to see what makes people like me love football (or soccer so much) and that is the atmosphere. no disrespect to afl because i love afl too but the atmosphere at soccer games is more enjoyable. BUT WHEN YOU TAKE THAT AWAY FROM THE FANS YOUR LEFT WITH VERY LITTLE APART FROM THE DEDICATED SUPPORTERS. how on earth can the ffa make such a stupid stupid mistake. i hope an official reads this, takes their head out of their ass and realizes that its not the “global economic crisis” thats declining the crowds, its you!!!!!!! level 3 is rubbish, and its only good for families with young kids. anybody between 14-27 should be able to actively support their team and enjoy the matchday feel. thanks ffa for robbing my team of this
July 23rd 2009 @ 3:38pm
Mick said | July 23rd 2009 @ 3:38pm | Report comment
This reminds me of security telling in perth telling the kids they are not allowed to bang on the signs / fence around the ground……… i have seen and banged on fences at the crickeet, afl, wafl and glory but not anymore as i usually go near the bar
July 23rd 2009 @ 3:59pm
Pippinu said | July 23rd 2009 @ 3:59pm | Report comment
MV87 raises a good point – and it’s certainly an example of the FFA going overboard – that was an absolutley stupid decision at the time, with very little rationale behind it.
It’s worth recalling that in season 2, MV got fantastic crowds (home crowds of 40,000 and 50,000 against Adelaide and Sydney respectively – not finals – regular season!!)
As MV87 says, the following season, memberships went through the roof (about 23,500 – big, big number in anyone’s language) – but what happened to the crowds?? I think we got over 30,000 once!!
And that was after winning the double!!
So there’s no doubt that the FFA (and/or the Dome and/or MV) went way overboard in the 3rd season, which has had ramifications to the present day.
July 23rd 2009 @ 4:26pm
Redb said | July 23rd 2009 @ 4:26pm | Report comment
The crowd drop off would also be attributed to MV’s poor start to season 3 and the loss of bandwagon support from Season 2.
The big crowds of Season 2 came from many who would sit in Tier 3 to begin with as novices not the hardcore types.
Redb
July 23rd 2009 @ 4:19pm
Midfielder said | July 23rd 2009 @ 4:19pm | Report comment
Pip & Phnom
LOL …hahahheheh …. Ben is BB himself … I assume this thread will get to him…. the second in charge to Obie Wan himself… my guess is the Roar is establishing itself as a quality football site … thus it is being watched for key articles … my guess BTW no inside knowledge..
July 23rd 2009 @ 4:30pm
Midfielder said | July 23rd 2009 @ 4:30pm | Report comment
MV87 & Pip
Gotta agree … if the FFA have issues then discuss them and come to a mutually acceptable arrangement … the HE’s will support as long as they feel part of the process…
July 23rd 2009 @ 4:39pm
Towser said | July 23rd 2009 @ 4:39pm | Report comment
Midfielder
Without blowing our own trumpet(but I will) I would have thought it would be well worth while the hierachy of any sport in Australia sifting through the posts on here & sorting the wheat from the chaff for ideas to forward their sport. In our case the FFA.
Noticed that SFC fans sat down with SFC recently to discuss fan club relationships & support at SFS. Hopefully that filters up to the FFA. Whatever way it pans out the first stop is discussion.
July 23rd 2009 @ 5:04pm
Pippinu said | July 23rd 2009 @ 5:04pm | Report comment
Redb
There’s some truth in what you’re saying, but the fall off in crowds happened very quickly – much quicker than when it became clear MV had no chance of defending its title.
After 9 rounds, we were 3 wins, one loss and 5 draws – yeh it wasn’t great, but at that point we were still in the top four.
But the drop off in crowds was experienced immediately.
We had the bizarre situation where our crowds were actually less than our membership!! (very unusual)
So something weird was definitely going on, and I suspect it had a lot to do with some of the decisions by the Dome/MV and the FFA (not 100% sure who was making these calls exactly).
Also, I should add that while I have tried to present a picture in terms of understanding the FFA’s view on things (allowing for perhaps going over the top), I should add that I love the North end South end stuff and wouldn’t have it any other way – also, I think it’s crazy that they have banned drums and that sort of stuff – I was simply presenting a case for why the FFA got over-cautious at one point (which hopefully they’ll tone down a bit).
But I stress – there are many demands the FFA will never, ever meet, e.g. standing only terraces – forget about it, ain’t gonna happen.