By Pippinu -
July 31st 2009 @ 12:50am
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Hunt defection won’t have a lasting effect
It was inevitable that the surprising news of Karmichael Hunt’s decision to take up an AFL contract with the new Gold Coast team would send all the sports media and punters in to a feeding frenzy.
It appears to have caught everyone by surprise, with more than a hint of the cloak and dagger about it from the AFL – going all the way to the top.
My personal take on it is that it’s nothing more than a career decision on the part of Hunt. That it’s probably good marketing on the part of the new club. That some league players and their agents may try and get a bit of mileage out of it for future contract negotiations.
But otherwise, I reckon it’s business as usual for both the AFL and the NRL. There are no long term ramifications.
However, silly comments are already pouring in about all manner of things: it’s bad for the NRL; or it’s bad for the AFL; or it shows how weak they both are; shows that anyone can play AFL, and so on.
Basically, these are ignorant and prejudiced comments that are made without any knowledge of what Hunt can or can’t do, and any knowledge of what is required of either game at the elite level.
So I’d like to split this article into two parts:
1. What the chances are of Hunt making a successful transition from rugby league to Australian Football
2. Answering some of the more stupid comments I have seen on various forums.
The Probability of Success
Firstly, I would define a successful transition as Hunt playing ten games in his first season of AFL and then exceeding that number in his second season (barring injury, of course). I think that would be a fair enough achievement and would be deserving of plenty of praise, if he were to achieve it.
We should all bear in mind that the idea of recruiting players from other codes was first put into practice by Ron Barassi while coaching Melbourne in the early 1980s. In 1984, he brought over a few young Gaelic footballers who were all recognised as future champions in their sport at the time.
The group included Sean Wight, and in particular, Jim Stynes, who went on to achieve great success with Melbourne, winning a Brownlow and playing in a Grand Final along the way.
So let’s have a look at Jim Stynes.
The most important thing to bear in mind is that there are similarities in the biomechanics of each game, primarily being able to kick and handball while running at full pace (two of the key distinguishing features in Australian and Gaelic Football as compared to other codes).
Yet, it took Jim Stynes a full three years of special training and running around in the Reserves (often with a “runner” alongside him) to be in a position to finally debut in 1987, after which he was immediately dropped.
In other words, it required a massive effort from both the club and Stynes to become a regular player (which he eventually did with distinction).
It should also be remembered that Stynes was a very gifted athlete, with good stamina and good natural fitness, which no doubt helped him finally achieve the record of the most consecutive games ever played – 244, an incredible achievement in anyone’s language.
But even with everything going for him, including having the physique to play the specific role of ruckman, it was a long and arduous journey for him.
Stynes is not only remembered for longevity in the game, he is also remembered for one infamous event.
In his debut year, 1987, playing in a preliminary final, and with Melbourne only seconds away from qualifying for their first grand final in 23 years, Stynes committed the mortal sin of running across the mark and providing Buckenara with a 15 metre penalty that put him in range of goal, which he duly converted from about 45 metres.
Put all this together and the lesson?
Absolutely everything, absolutely everything, has to go your way just to have a fighting chance at making even a small success of the game if you’re coming from outside the game – and that also includes oodles of effort on the parts of both the club and the player.
Also, as the preliminary final example shows, in any game, there are little nuances that you better get on top of very quickly otherwise it’s going to be a very short career.
To show the basic skills out on the training track is one thing – to display an intuition for the game in the helter skelter chaos that is Australian Football is something completely different.
Back to Hunt.
The one disadvantage he has is that he can’t naturally slot into an identifiable position like ruck, whereas Stynes, and more recently, Mike Pyke, obviously had the right build and temperament to play ruck.
Some have mentioned half-back flank, where, for arguments sake, he might be asked to mind a player like Gary Ablett.
Let’s consider this scenario.
Hunt is minding Ablett on the flank (which in the modern game, might mean almost anything). The ball is 100 metres downfield, but could be in Ablett’s hands within a few seconds via a huge number of variations in play, far too many to mention in even a longish article such as this.
Would Hunt have the smarts right now to make sure Ablett didn’t get his hands on the ball?
I can promise you now, he wouldn’t.
This isn’t a question of relative skills, toughness, speed, or whatever. It’s about reading the game and having real time on-field smarts – and Hunt would not have that right now in any meaningful degree (certainly not sufficient to stop Ablett getting to the footy).
Responding to silly points being made out there on the blogosphere
1. It shows that anyone can play AFL
Seeing that where AFL clubs look beyond the AFL, they target gifted athletes, one could mount the argument that it shows the exact opposite.
2. It shows that you only need to be an athlete to play AFL
It’s certainly true that athleticism will get you far if you don’t have a background in the game, in the sense that the Swans don’t mind trying out Pyke because he’s 200 cm and can run with pace and has great stamina.
If he had been that tall but lacked the pace and stamina, they wouldn’t have bothered!
However, as you will see above, athleticism, hardness, and ball skills, are not enough on their own. As in all sports, you need to have an understanding of the game at an intuitive level – that’s the biggest challenge.
3. AC Milan or Barcelona wouldn’t recruit someone from another game
I’ve come across this one a few times already in various blogs. It sounds true at first glance, but then it occurred to me – some of the biggest and best names in the game do not come from an Association Football background (think about it).
That aside, I’m aware of a few former Gaelic Football schoolboy champions who have had very successful careers at the elite level of Association Football. Niall Quinn comes to mind. But I know there are others.
4. This is a disaster for the NRL and/or the AFL
Yes, different people are saying it’s the end of the world for one or the other. Pay no attention to that. This time next year, most will have forgotten that Hunt is scratching around for the footy in the VFL in some bumpy suburban ground somewhere in Melbourne.
This tale has a long way to play out. Just follow it and enjoy the ride!
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Ben Somerford said | July 31st 2009 @ 1:52am | Report comment
Nice article Pip. I agree with pretty much everything you said.
Michael C said | July 31st 2009 @ 6:34am | Report comment
Pip –
There’s a couple of little things I’d like to add:
A. was he really ‘poached’? And if so, is he actually being poached from Union rather than League??
B. Ray Smith back in the ’70s apprarently switched from League to the then VFL and played about 100 games.
C. The AFL has hugely developed their specialist coached/development roles. As Mark Browning said, if Sean Hampson at Carlton could make it (and improve his kicking), then Hunt will have no problems.
D. cross sport movers – - at least Hunt has played a few games, and has had ongoing exposure to the ‘culture’ and game. Look at a Setanta O’hAilpin who has crossed from hurling – - and it’s taken him 4 years from debut to notch up 50 games and finally have people believing that he can really justify a position and fulfill a role on an ongoing basis. So, Hunt, by the time he starts in 2011 in the AFL, he’ll be a 24 yr old, will he be willing perhaps to put in 4 years to reach 50? Will he be a more immediate success? Will the year in the VFL be all he needs to get tuned to the game?
LK said | July 31st 2009 @ 8:37am | Report comment
Yep, a good article.
I agree there will be little lasting flow on from Hunt’s defection. It is a product of the circumstance: GC17’s need for publicity, and their extra room in the salary cap. I doubt whether an established club would take the risk at >$500k a season. WS18 might take the same gamble depending on how Hunt goes.
As for Hunt playing on Ablett, geez he get destroyed. You would hope his coaches are sensible and see his development as a long term thing. But with his obvious box office appeal and his massive salary you can’t be so sure.
I wonder if there is an “out clause” in his contract? If he doesn’t play x-number of AFL games in 2011 then either party can terminate the final year.
Redb said | July 31st 2009 @ 8:45am | Report comment
Karmichael Hunt is a pioneer for the AFL in QLD.
I think it will have a lasting effect not in terms of more cross code defections (we will be lucky to see 1-2 big name RL players in a decade make the switch) but at junior level when kids are dabbling in all the football codes – Australian Rules took a fair size credibility leap with his decision.
I watched the start of the NRL Footy Show last night and Andress Voss (what a dill that bloke is) tried to get K Hunt to nominate which code he would be endorsing kids to play, AFL or rugby league? – his answer was spot on: “let the kids decide for themselves”.
Redb
Pippinu said | July 31st 2009 @ 8:49am | Report comment
Thanks for the comments guys.
LK
You touch on something I haven’t here, but which I’ve mantioned on some other threads, that when you look carefully at the timing and circumstances, it consists of a happy conincidence of lots and lots of elements, that aren’t going to happen every day of the week.
A similar thing was mentioned in last night’s footy show as well – and I think they handled the matter very well too.
Michael C said | July 31st 2009 @ 9:20am | Report comment
Pip -
which version of the ‘footy show’ are you referring to??
Pippinu said | July 31st 2009 @ 9:43am | Report comment
MC
I’m referring to the one redb is referring to above.
Here’s another perspective from Patrick Smith, raising a whole lot of contentious but very valid issues with this episode, and Demetriou’s involvement:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25859316-12270,00.html
redb
you might be right about the interest factor, etc, but it really is early days.
Simmo said | July 31st 2009 @ 9:53am | Report comment
some of the biggest and best names in the game do not come from an Association Football background (think about it).
Pip: Honestly, I can’t think of who this refers to…
Pippinu said | July 31st 2009 @ 9:59am | Report comment
Simmo
here’s a hint – I deliberately used the expression “Association Football” – think of other popular (almost identical) games in South America that are not “Association Football” (strictly speaking).
Some of the very biggest names in the game were raised almost exclusively on games that are not “Association Football” in the strictest meaning.
Simmo said | July 31st 2009 @ 11:07am | Report comment
Do you mean Futsal?
Pippinu said | July 31st 2009 @ 11:10am | Report comment
Yes
Simmo said | July 31st 2009 @ 3:48pm | Report comment
gotcha. Also forgot to add, this article has been the most reasoned out of everything I’ve read on this topic. Kudos
Pippinu said | July 31st 2009 @ 4:00pm | Report comment
Thanks Simmo – much appreciated.
AndyRoo said | July 31st 2009 @ 10:18am | Report comment
RedB
I thought Hunt handled himself really well on the footy show (there were a few curlies). There are some reports he is a dill off the field but he is always pretty good in the media and kids love him. Probably do him well to get away from the broncos party culture.
He is ranked about 4th in his position (Slater, Stewart, Hayne ahead), (Gidley around the same), (Campbell and Bowen behind but more popular) but he has been the Broncos full back for 5 years. That is a massive profile that most southerners may not fully grasp. The Broncos are on free to air tv around 26 times a year and Hunt himself features in the NRMA commercials.
Redb said | July 31st 2009 @ 11:04am | Report comment
AndyRoo,
I agree, he handled himself very well in the face of edged questions from Voss, his comment on Wally Lewis’s criticisms also measured – he is his own man at 22.
Credit also to Fatty Vautin for not allowing dumb AFL sniping (in fact saying he likes AFL) and also reminding RL fans that the sky is indeed not falling in.
Redb
Pippinu said | July 31st 2009 @ 11:19am | Report comment
Fatty Vautin handled it very well I thought.
AndyRoo said | July 31st 2009 @ 2:06pm | Report comment
Fatty also gave them their new nickname the “wood ducks”
Redb said | July 31st 2009 @ 2:07pm | Report comment
Gold Coast Pioneers for mine.
Pippinu said | July 31st 2009 @ 11:01am | Report comment
It’s a very difficult thing to try to imagine what Hunt will encounter when he’s out there on an oval chasing the pig skin around.
I’ve used the example of whether he was tasked with minding Ablett, not to belittle him, but to understand the difficulties of the transition.
On the one hand, the coach might give the very simple instructions: don’t let him out of your sight, retain touch at all times, once he’s got the ball, nail him hard. Ok – so far so good, Hunt will be able to do that much.
But it’s the different scenarios that will arise where he is going to think about what he should be doing, where he should be, etc.
Here is a very simple example I’ve dug out.
Rooke (who coincidentally has been mentioned recently as well), takes the mark a bit outside 50. Look very carefully, a Crow is tagging Ablett, but after the mark, allows him to cross the mark, wander over towards the boundary, and pretty much lose his tagger completely. The tagger might be thinking: he’s 60 metres away from goal, out on the boundary, I can let him go, he can’t hurt us from there, I’ll mark space in the 50m, etc (all very valid and reasonable responses)
But Ablett takes the handball and hugging the boundary nails the goal from about 50 m post high.
It’s just one very simple example (of a million different variations) where it’s so easy for a player to make the wrong decision in terms of where he should and shouln’d be, what he should be doing, etc, etc.
Honestly, there are a million variations possible – that’s where the lack of instinct can hurt a team (and where Hunt starts off with a natural disadvantage).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYlQM9m8Ypk
Redb said | July 31st 2009 @ 11:16am | Report comment
Pip,
Having had more time to think about Hunt’s decision beyond the marketing coup,etc. I think GC will initially look to his immediate strengths such as tackling and herding pressure.
Unlike the Irish recruits and even the almost irrelevant comparison with Mike Pyke (specialist ruck role) K Hunt brings top notch tackling skills and a side step that will make it hard for players with the ball to get around him easily.
If you look at where St Kilda is currently taking the game with their “frontal pressure” where hard running fierce tackling pressure is causing mistakes deep in an oppositions defence I could see K Hunt from the outset making great strides in just causing turnovers with his tackling and pressure (both real and perceived).
There has been a noticable increase in tackling pressure in the game in the last 2-3 years. Not so dumb from a pure footy perspective at all, especially when he might be surrounded by a lot of young players with immature bodies.
Redb
Pippinu said | July 31st 2009 @ 11:34am | Report comment
Here’s another example I’ve dug up, that involves Ablett (as a what if scenario).
In this one, play is on the opposite side pretty much between Geelong’s half back flank and wing. they transfer play diagonally to their own forward pocket, moving the ball about 150 metres in the space of a few seconds.
Ablett comes from nowhere to take a very solid grab hard up on the boundary where he converts again.
The reason I wanted to pull this one out is that Ablett has probably crossed from the opposite pocket and run about 60 metres to get on the end of this. The Crow defender has done a great job to stay with him every step of the way, was there on the spot to spoil, but Ablett was too good.
My point is that Hunt starts off with an even bigger disadvantage than that Crow defender:
1. right now, he’d struggle to shadow him those 60 metres (without giving a free kick away); and
2. he has no experience in putting on the spoil in those sorts of circumstances (and will no doubt give away a mass of free kicks in learning how to do it).
Once again, very experienced players struggle to stop Ablett, but someone with very little experience, will struggle even more (at least for a while, until they adapt, if they can adapt).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4KzsarSUgI
Pippinu said | July 31st 2009 @ 12:10pm | Report comment
redb
like a defensive forward perhaps?
At no stage have I called this dumb.
As Roos said, GC is paying $1 mill per annum for a player who right now, in terms of readiness for the game, would be a $100,000 to $200,000 proposition – that’s a reasonable viewpoint.
The thing I have been trying to stress in this thread is the lack of instinct for the game (that we occasionally see in someone like Tom Williams, who has now been in the system for 4 or 5 years).
Football smarts, reading the game, tricks of the trade, call it what you will – Hunt will lack it for at least the first two years of his three year stint (just as Jimmy Stynes lacked it for the first three or four years).
Tom said | July 31st 2009 @ 1:39pm | Report comment
RedB makes quite a good case actually.
Being able to push off an opponent and change direction quickly are also important skills in that part of the ground.
I think pSmith actually makes a good case in his own nasty, sarcastic way. The unprecedented level of involvement the AFL had in this recruiting decision makes it pretty clear that they see this as being a lot more than an individual decision by one rugby league player.
They see it as another shot in the war.
I think the AFL is trying to target the talented young athletes in NSW and Queensland that could play any sport, but choose to grow up and play rugby. That helps explain why they’re prepared to wear such massive costs to get up teams in Gold Coast and West Sydney. More teams, more exposure and more professional opportunities in those markets could draw away some of the talent.
Thats part of why they see Karmichael Hunt as such an important coup, and worth shelling out the money and bending the rules. It sells AFL as a career and not just as a sport.
Redb said | July 31st 2009 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
Correct!
Pippinu said | July 31st 2009 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
Tom
re targeting athletes (or young sportsmen), the AFL has probably been in that space for a solid decade now.
My article didn’t really focus on the external benefits to either GC or the AFL of Hunt’s signing, more about his chances of succeeding.
There’s a general consensus that he’ll be back playing league at the end of three years – I’m not saying that for sure, but there’s certainly a good chance of that happening.
Pippinu said | July 31st 2009 @ 9:19pm | Report comment
What I’m about to write gives me no joy, but the idea has been brewing in my mind ever since I discovered Demetriou’s role in all this (for which Link kindly forgave me) – the best we can say about this aspect of the whole affair is that it is highly irregular (and that’s being very generous to both Demetriou and the AFL).
There’s the story of how Bucks did a scout report based on a bit of a kick to kick (compare that to the absolute rigours and torture 17 and 18 year old kids are put through in determining if they are up to AFL).
The fact that GC coach, Guy McKenna, seemingly had zero say in all this.
The fact that he wants to play a 3rd code in between (rather than dedicate that valuable time to familiarising himself with his new career).
The fact that he is close to the highest paid AFL player now, when he would be lucky to be in the top 200 (at this point in time).
Finally, for the second time, I saw a bit of vision of him having a muck around kick, and the boys on Before the Bounce, saw it as well, and the reaction was predictable, any AFL fan would think the same – if I was coaching and saw an U13 player trying to kick a footy the way he was trying to kick it – I’d absolutely rip into him.
It was ugly to say the least (and not the style of kicking that would normally attract $40k, let alone $1 mill).
It was the sort of thing that would have specialist coaches working overtime for two years – but – Bucks said he had perfect technique!! It’s all highly suspicious.
If he can achieve 10 plus games in two consecutive years, I still maintain that he would have done extraordinarly well – and good luck to him in achieving that.
But right at this moment – it not only smacks of pure marketing – but it’s bordering on high farce.
Redb said | August 1st 2009 @ 7:07am | Report comment
Pip,
I think you’ll find Hunt was just mucking around with his Broncos mates, ie: not trying too hard to look like an AFL player.
Demetriou was also doing his own form of due diligence on Hunt personally due to the toilet incident last year – fair enough too.
Highest paid player includes a healthy ‘unique’ bonus – crossing the divide is worth a few dollars.
If you respect the football intelligence of Scott Clayton, Nathan Buckley and Jason McCartney you have no problem in letting them pass judgement rather than a bunch of bloggers who have never seen him put through his paces.
Hunt is coming over on his own terms, he obviously had planned to give Euro rugby a go first and there has been some flexbility given – the biggest risk is injury.
He might stay in AFL for 3 years and then move on, who might renew for 2-3 years if going well? He only make a reasonable AFL footballer with his existing skill limitations but he may also provide a X factor for the GC team.
Finally, since when is marketing a new thing in sport – it thrives on these types of factors – gets crowd, TV audiences, sponsor interest – look at the big picture and it’s a seismic event.
Redb
Redb
MyGeneration said | August 1st 2009 @ 8:04am | Report comment
An interesting article in today’s SMH:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/lhqnews/code-war-steeped-in-history/2009/07/31/1248977193820.html
Michael C said | August 1st 2009 @ 8:55pm | Report comment
Great article – - I’m a huge North fan and I don’t recall ever hearing that story about twinkle toes.
Hmmm, his sons David and Anthony were only so – so when they played at North, perhaps a St.George person with a long memory might’ve taken’em off our hands……
MyGeneration said | August 1st 2009 @ 8:11am | Report comment
And Roy Masters looks at it from another angle:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/lhqnews/hunt-and-the-hunted-afl-targets-nrls-monopoly-on-islanders/2009/07/31/1248977193823.html
Pippinu said | August 1st 2009 @ 8:54am | Report comment
redb
I understand what you’re saying – but a lot things don’t quite stack up – did you see that vision of him kicking the footy – mate , if I saw you kicking the footy like that – I’d absolutely get stuck into you!! I’d wonder whether you really came from Melbourne??!!
Pippinu said | August 1st 2009 @ 9:05am | Report comment
MyGen – terrific links – thanks!
That Lauire Dwyer article is just hilarious!! I was laughing out loud over my cornflakes!!
Roy’s article is a beauty too – really interesting perspective.
I get the feeling that there is some sort of issue simmering under the surface, waiting to burst forward, in relation to League and Islanders – that’s a seperate discussion for another day.
But I will say this – islanders and rugby have been closely entwined for the best part of a century – and for the most part they are ideally suited to it – that won’t change in a hurry, if ever.
But – where islanders come with the taller leaner body shape – they are definitely the ones that should give aussie rules a go – and if they can take a grab – they’re more than welcome!!
MyGeneration said | August 1st 2009 @ 10:10am | Report comment
I thought Roy’s article was just as interesting in regards to the initiatives the NRL is promoting towards getting Islanders into leadership roles – and personally I hope that keeps them in the greatest game of all
Pippinu said | August 1st 2009 @ 10:53am | Report comment
There’s no doubting that all leadership roles should be open to everyone.
Pippinu said | August 1st 2009 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
I’ve just been listening to the Southern version of Grandstand, which has just featured a rather lengthy interview between Mark Maclure and Gerard Whately and Karmichael Hunt. Some pretty good questions and answers.
Hunt comes across as quite well spoken and quite confident, but I have to admit, and as Stan Alves said afterwards, he doesn’t sound like someone who truly undrestands what he’s in for.
The panel gave the pros and cons, and covered off much of what has been said from all sides on the Roar the last couple of days.
The pros from Maclure (who is an ex Sydney boy as it happens): it’s a great advertisement for all young sports people in NSW and Queensland that there’s a decent career in aussie rules.
Whately put it like this: he’ll be worth every cent if every 13 and 14 year old kid in NSW thinks aussie rules is cool (a big ask!!)
But Stan Alves gave this opposite opionion: to him it was just a publicity stunt full of risk. To him, it sounded like Hunt wasn’t the least bit committed to the game (going to play union in between, and talking about the three year contract). He also said that Hunt sounded quite naive about it all (which is true).
Another panellist mentioned that Hunt had played a lot of basketball, and that that might help him with the peripheral vision and 360 degree nature of aussie rules.
Whately read out an email from a bloke in Brisbane whose brother played on Hunt in that school boy grand final in the comp Hunt played seven games, or whatever it was. Apparently Hunt was at centre half forward, and his brother not only gave him a bath, but got up the other end to score the winning goal!!
Hunt took this quite well, recalled losing the game, but couldn’t recall much else (which was fair enough).
Another panellist offered the view along the lines of what redb said above about the defensive forward idea – that if Hunt could do nothing more than lay tackles in the forward line, say 15 per game (which is a very big number in AFL), that he’d earn his keep (if his team mates were able to score from the spilled pill – no one was expecting him to thread the sticks in a hurry!!!).
So some very interesting views all round.
My conclusion? I can promise you all this much: Hunt will not be playing Centre half forward for GC!!!!!
Redb said | August 1st 2009 @ 3:13pm | Report comment
Pip,
Saw the footage and people are reading too much into the kicking style in a muck around situation. He wasn’t kicking to a target, he lazily dropped the ball on the boot and kicked it to a bunch of players on a small field. Nothing more than a casual kick.
Re the Buckley trail – he out on his chest from 45 metres, there is no way he could have done with the kicking style displayed.
i think this is a case of using some footage to rationalise a position. Let’s give him the benefit of the doubt at this stage.
As for the attitude, I think we are expecting to him to be in love with the game from the outset, just because he doesnt fall over himself to demonstrate he is a convert doesnt mean he wont apply himself when the time comes.
Below an article from Cam Smith (Storm, QLD) he offers his opinion on Hunt as a Origin team-mate and AFL watcher from his close proximity in Melbourne.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25864189-5012431,00.html
Redb
Michael C said | August 1st 2009 @ 8:34pm | Report comment
Yep, really good article – -
some of the people who have proclaimed certain pieces as being ‘well balanced’ need to read Cam Smith’s article there. A very good piece.
Pippinu said | August 1st 2009 @ 5:55pm | Report comment
redb
good article – it’s a pleasure to read such accounts from insiders who can call it without any of the bull shit getting in the way.
But geez – that was an ugly kick!!!
MyGeneration said | August 1st 2009 @ 6:14pm | Report comment
Are you talking about the kick he just put in against the Raiders? It WAS an ugly kick!
Dogs Of War said | August 1st 2009 @ 6:20pm | Report comment
Well Hunt isn’t a halfback. Henjack has no idea, probably played a big role in leaving.
MyGeneration said | August 1st 2009 @ 6:22pm | Report comment
The way they’re playing tonight, a few might be thinking of following.
Pippinu said | August 1st 2009 @ 8:04pm | Report comment
I’ve been listening on the radio, but didn’t see it – the vision I’m talking about was just a few minutes of training the previous night.
Redb is probably right that it was just a quick grab, and it was an unfortunate shot – but muck around or no muck around, no AFL player would ever allow the footy to drop onto their foot in that manner (and lots of commentators have picked up on this since).
Westcoast929406 said | August 1st 2009 @ 6:39pm | Report comment
Hunts announcement and resulting media meltdown placed the story in the top 2 for the last couple of days according to the media watchers.
Well known media guru Harold Mitchell placed an approximate value of 500,000 worth of advertising to the AFL on the stories.
Go figure.
Redb said | August 1st 2009 @ 8:15pm | Report comment
Westcoast929406,
Next is western Syndey – code breaking is not easy – there will be at least one current RL player as part of WS18.
It will happen. Same plan, the AFL is behind with 50 minutes to go, we will never give in.
Redb
Pippinu said | August 1st 2009 @ 8:19pm | Report comment
I know the Broncos are on a bad run of poor form – but has anyone drawn a connection between tonight’s shellacking in Canberra and Hunt’s recent announcement?
This sort of news must be a little upsetting to a team – and I know Hunt’s being doing stacks of interviews – so his mind may not be on the job right now (which is understandable).
Michael C said | August 1st 2009 @ 8:40pm | Report comment
Gotta be a distraction – - but, they all knew he was leaving (pretty well), it was just where to that was at issue.
Perhaps the real problem is that – as the photos in Fridays Herald Sun showed, suddenly we had McCullaugh, Lockyer and Thaiday all showing pretty good form with the sherrin at training…….
…..perhaps the new West Sydney team, rather than those funny suggestions of being an Irish team, might be an official NRL team entered in the AFL.
btw – did those photos of the above mentioned broncos kicking sherrins appear in papers north of Wagga? The Harold Mitchell estimation of $500K value would be doubled if that was the case.
Dogs Of War said | August 1st 2009 @ 8:47pm | Report comment
As I said previously, Hunt isn’t a halfback, which honestly is probably the most important position on the park. The Broncos defence has been ordinary all season long, but when your attack isn’t working as well, you get results like we saw tonight.
Pippinu said | August 1st 2009 @ 9:09pm | Report comment
Dogs
You’re right, but you must admit, 56-0 against a team that’s around bottom three or whatever and which hasn’t been in decent form themselves – this is a shellacking of the highest order, and it does sound like a few Broncos were switched off tonight (I was only listening on the radio, I haven’t seen any vision).
A top half team doesn’t expect to cop that sort of result against a bottom half team, even with a couple of key players out.
MyGeneration said | August 1st 2009 @ 9:27pm | Report comment
Hunt’s mind may not of been on the job – doesn’t explain what the rest of them thought they were doing. Mind you, halfback’s a key position. Henjak might have been hoping to get something special from Hunt – it usually goes one way or the other after a week like this. It went the other.
Pippinu said | August 1st 2009 @ 10:01pm | Report comment
My Gen
there’s a chance that the rest of the team may have been affected – shock announcement; media circus, etc etc
MyGeneration said | August 1st 2009 @ 10:13pm | Report comment
I’m sure they were, but they might have reacted differently, as in positively. Probably wasn’t a good time to ask the guy in the middle of the circus ring to go from juggling to the high wire. Maybe Henjak thought “Well, if you think changing codes is easy, changing positions should be a piece of cake.”
glocko87 said | August 1st 2009 @ 9:44pm | Report comment
well said Pip,
the best article i’ve seen on this topic…very well considered. agree with you!
glocko87
Pippinu said | August 1st 2009 @ 10:02pm | Report comment
Glocko
thanks for the kind words – much appreciated!!!
Redb said | August 2nd 2009 @ 6:37am | Report comment
Below is Hunt’s recruitment scorecard (summary) compiled by AFL scouts.
http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,6776398,00.jpg
Redb
Pippinu said | August 2nd 2009 @ 11:21am | Report comment
redb
is that fair dinkum????
This is a quote from Caro’s article in the Age today:
Buckley and Hunt played kick to kick in jeans and shoes but the former endorsed the latter’s potential before spending 45 minutes with him over a coffee. “They probably want me to tell you you’re going to be a star but I can’t do that” Buckley told Hunt. “but if you do all the right things you can be a leader of the young club”.
Folks – that’s starting to get a little closer to the truth.
But here is a question for everyone. What does Buckley mean when he says: “They probably want me to tell you you’re going to be a start….”??
Pippinu said | August 2nd 2009 @ 11:21am | Report comment
sorry, that should be “a star”
Pippinu said | August 2nd 2009 @ 11:58am | Report comment
Many have had a bit of a go at me in not only questioning Hunt’s kicking ability, but by daring to suggest that in AFL a higher quality of kicking is demanded than is to be found in the rugby codes (I woudln’t have thought that is the least bit controversial, to be honest).
But anyway, I thought I would illustrate what I mean by poor kicking technique by using an example from my own team (I can’t be any fairer than that!)
Dale Morris is a tight marking defender, can play short and tall, and generally gets the job on those forwards who are hard to man up (in fact, I can imagine that over time Hunt could play a similiar role, Morris is hard as nuts and a decent tackler, but Hunt would be much better in that department).
The only problem is that Morris is the worst kick in the Bulldogs – and I’m sure he’d agree with that assessment.
In this clip, Morris squares it up his captain, Brad Johnson, in the middle of the defensive 50, with absolutely no one in coo ee of him.
But – it’s a shocking kick – not in terms of accuracy, but in the manner it gets there – too much hang time – allowing Rooke to come from over 20m away and poleaxe Johnno in the contest, and create a goal – the usual result of poor technique.
That ball should have been down Johnno’s throat a half second quicker, and Rooke could not have touched him once he had the mark – yes, it’s a question of degrees – but that’s the reality of playing at the elite level.
Hunt would start behind Morris right now in terms of correct technique – if he can get to Morris’ low standard, it will be sufficient for him to carve out a career (using his other strengths) – but people should take it from me that at AFL standard, right now, Hunt’s kicking is at a very low base.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FAx5j30zVk
Redb said | August 2nd 2009 @ 5:09pm | Report comment
You probably wont see TAC Future Stars but Kevin Sheahan gave a very good insight today- you should be less concerned about his kicking technique.Sheahan basicailly backed up my suspicion about the Bronco muck around session.
It will be fascinating to see it all unfold.
Redb
Pippinu said | August 2nd 2009 @ 6:46pm | Report comment
Redb
fair enough.
Anyway, given what Hunt brings to the game, I thought the Dale Morris example above was a good one. If he can at least get to that standard of kicking (as low as it is), it’s enough to get into the starting 22.
Redb said | August 3rd 2009 @ 11:18am | Report comment
no youtube access so can’t see the vid.
I taped the TAC Future Stars and on a second look, Kevin Sheahan stressed that Hunt’s kicking technique is fine.
Redb
AndyRoo said | August 3rd 2009 @ 11:27am | Report comment
I am still interested too see how he goes (hoping he is used as defensive forward as tackling people and having a chance to score sounds more fun) but this is really starting to feel like a joke to me and I can’t help that feel after the initial excitement wears off that the 1 million a year deal is going to be looked on in a negative way by those North of the Victorian border. It will not feel like a football decision he is getting the money because of his profile in Rugby league, their buying celebrity rather than a player. If he doesn’t perform or even if he is continually injured I think the public will turn against this decision. It will look like the AFL have signed Brian Macfadden or Paris Hilton to try and dupe us into watching. Similar to when the NSW cricket team brought in Andrew Johns, they got a big crowd but I think the result hurt the game by not giving the crowd what they hoped for. It was a false promise and left many people jaded about the NSW cricket team. The blues don’t really attract many fans anyway but the Gold Coast team has genuine potential so more to lose by becoming a punch line in a bad joke.
The converts in Rugby have only worked when there successful on the field, when the Wallabies made the 2003 world cup final all was good. People wanted to watch Sailer, Rogers and Lote. When they have some drama and are dropped there is a big hangover. Rugby looks stupid for paying over the odds for players at the expense of looking after their own.
It is a trick that will work for a while but it gets old fast, Hunt will likely be the last one to move or possibly one of the storm players (Inglis). If they do buy a storm player I think that would actually be equally a boon for rugby league as it would let Melbourne people know that they do exist. The best way rugby league could combat this is to forget about AFL and just do it’s own thing really well. Working their salary cap rules so the old blokes are encouraged to stay would be a start. Rugby league puts years into marketing someone like Barrett or Mathew Johns, to have them squeezed out of a club to go to England for not huge money is such a waste. The casual fan takes along time to learn about the new talents, they want too see people they know.
Sailors return has been fantastic.
Redb said | August 3rd 2009 @ 11:50am | Report comment
AndyRoo,
There are two ways you can look at this for sure, positive or negative?
It is perhaps a little easier for an AFL fan like myself who has read a lot about the people behind the scenes like Scott Clayton, Kevin Sheahan, Mark Browning, Jason Mc Cartney,etc. They are professional people this is not a joke.
Yes there is a huge upside in terms of marketing, but the bloke has the build and speed to be an AFL player. He is not a player like Lockyer at the end of this career. The promotional dollars have already paid off – everyone in the country knows about the new Gold Coast team. But it deeper than that for its implications at junior level.
The first GC17 game will be a sellout with a massive TV audience – if you capture 15-20% of that interest for the longer term, hey presto you just created fan base out of nothing.
I suspect the culture change was also desirable for Hunt. There are some parallels with Chris Judd wanting to leave West Coast Eagles in the AFL to get away from a poor culture. Hunt appears to have his own off field problems (unlike Judd) but he is not the first and wont be the last to get a fresh start and relish the opportunity.
His environment with his girlfriend whose brother plays for the Brisbane Lions sees him also in an AFL environment making it a little easier for the switch.
Kevin Sheahan commented yesterday that Hunt watched the St Kilda v Bris Lions game live at Etihad Stadium with Jason McCartney, they focused on Sam Gilbert (rugby union background north coast NSW) and observed how he played the game and what he brought to it naturally.
2 things emerged: 1. Tackling pressure and 2. Side step (evasiveness). These skills aren’t as natural for AFL players but are becoming more important as the game speed increases with fresh players off the interchange bench and defensive flooding (crowded field)
I have no doubt the Gold Coast will fully utilise Malcolm Blight (Brownlow medalist, premiership player and coach) in a mentoring role.
GC17 have assembled an ensemble cast to date. Very impressive.
Redb
Pippinu said | August 3rd 2009 @ 11:38am | Report comment
AndyRoo
all good points.
The thing about this Hunt business is that at this early stage, a zillion perspectives are possible, and these perspectives do not necessarily split down a neat AFL/NRL divide, in fact the reverse is true – people from either camp will find a lot of common ground here from:
1. it’s pure marketing and a farce (plenty of AFL/NRL people are thinking along these lines);
2. he brings something different to AFL, if he can get the basic skills down pat (plenty of AFL/NRL people are thinking along these lines).
Gerard Whately is a relatively objective thinker on a wide range of sports, and he probably sums it up best: Hunt will be able to play to a creditable level – but he won’t be amongst the best 5 or 6 players of the new club.
That seems a fair enough view – and redb is probably of a similar view as well.
My view? It’s going to be a long, hard road and he is going to have to work his arse off!! (just like Jimmy Stynes had to).
I just repeat: if he can manage around 10 plus games in the two years he is playing AFL – it would have been an absolutely massive achievement in its own right.
But I have this predicition as well – his VFL games next year (after he returns from his brief rugby sojourn) will be more scrutinised than any VFL player ever has before him.
The first time that he mucks up (as is inevitable) it will be splashed across Melbournte’s sporting pages.
He will need mental toughness of the highest order to survive that year in the VFL!!!
Pippinu said | August 3rd 2009 @ 11:43am | Report comment
Cameron Smith wrote a terrific article on this in the Australian on Sat:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25864189-5012431,00.html
Giving a very fair and reasonable appraisal of Hunts strengths and weaknesses in terms of transitioning to aussie rules.
One interesting observation. He referred to the modern habit of aussie rules players to lift both arms while holding the footy in order to get the handball away while being tackled, i.e. avoiding a ball and all tackle where the arms are pinned.
He says simply that if players try that stunt in the vicinity of Hunt, there’ll be a few saw rib cages by the end of the game!!
The Link said | August 3rd 2009 @ 11:50am | Report comment
Cam Smith does himself a discredit in this article Pip, he’s actually a far better kick than Hunt and would arguably make the transition easier.
Skull said | August 3rd 2009 @ 12:10pm | Report comment
Redb,
Dont know if you have watched much league, but Hunt used to sidestep, but for the last few years he has only been practising the Maori sidestep.
My view is that the way he plays League is very hard on the body and perhaps has seen the writing on the wall regarding his future in either Rugby code so has decided to switch to a less collision dominated sport as a way to extend his sporting career and earning potential.
Also as I alluded to on another thread, just watch the negative stories about his off field behaviour come out now. The Terror has already started with one today concerning the QLD SOO camp.
Redb said | August 3rd 2009 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
Skull,
Having a decent sidestep in AFL is as unusual as a good kick to a target in the NRL. Rodan who plays for Port Adelaide is probably the best exponent in the game and he his of Fijian origin. “white men can’t sidestep”
Hunt will need to shed some kgs to improve endurance this will still leave him open to body contact (from all directions) , it wont be as hard as rugby league front on but then again he will have a leaner body shape.
A player going from AFL to RL would simply bulk up to suit that game. Thats not saying anything but that athletes build their body to the required level. eg: 100m runner body shape is very different to a 10,000m runner,etc.
Redb
Michael C said | August 3rd 2009 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
Rodan’s got a pretty mean turning circle.
Robert Harvey was a brilliant side step exponent. THe capacity to not be fast and yet not get caught.
Juddy at his best is also superb – but, you gain the impression he’s struggling (with a groin) at present, and doesn’t seem to have that core power available atm.
I like the side step capacity of our young defender at North – Scott Thompson.
Skull said | August 3rd 2009 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
Mate a player going from AFL to League would have to do more than bulk up to be able to play otherwise teams would be full of weightlifters. There are a few other things they would need to do.
Redb said | August 3rd 2009 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
Skull,
“That not saying anything but athletes build their body to suit the game”.
Skills aside I’m talking about.
Redb
AndyRoo said | August 3rd 2009 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
I believe he has a genuine chance of being an AFL footballer. I am not saying it’s joke yet (it’s too early to tell) as I will give the guy the benefit of the doubt but I see it being perceived as such before long.
I get the sneaking suspicion that he will be tagged with the million dollar flop mark up north. He is never going to be worth a million dollars for playing Aussie rules, that’s my concern is that his salary dominates peoples suggestions.
I know the AFL can see that wage is worth it in promotion but I feel fan’s won’t differentiate between the 900k he is paid for marketing and 100k for playing. It’s one contract in our eyes and he wont be worth that money. You have to remember in NSW the Telegraph out sells the SMH.
You see a lot of EPL players get judged by their transfer fee. You could have two centre backs one slightly out per forming the other. If the one doing better cost the club 10 million pounds and the other cost 1 million the fans will love the 1 million pound guy but some will boo the 10 million pound player even though he is performing a bit better.
I felt if the first Gold Coast game was against the lions it would have been a sell out anyway. I think the club will be a success without a gimmick like this which just makes them look cheap and tacky compared to the titans/lions.
It’s only a prediction we will have too see how it really plays out but I do think there may be a lot of negative stigma with the Gold Coast because of this, whereas previously I felt it was a good gamble because they were in a win win situation. I don’t think that’s the case now as their credibility is important. No one want’s to support a joke, they want a real football team.
Redb said | August 3rd 2009 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
Andyroo,
We’ll have to agree to disagree. I think most of us already understand the uniqueness of the situation and what he is being paid for.
Redb
AndyRoo said | August 3rd 2009 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
Either way it will be interesting
I allready feel the public turning a little even though he has handled it all brilliantly… but the Broncos better start winning
Regarding Pips comments about the Melbourne Media potentially having a go if he fails at the VFL level, I think that will finally answer the perception up north about the southern media being soft.
I always suspected the Melbourne Media was not soft…just less crass.
Redb said | August 3rd 2009 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
Yeah It’s funny how Hunt now carries the blame for the Broncos big loss – his photo on very article about it.
Redb
Michael C said | August 3rd 2009 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
Tacky perhaps,
certainly not cheap.
Reality will come down to the efforts of one K.Hunt and whether he can crack it for a game or not.
Pippinu said | August 3rd 2009 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
Link
funnily enough – when Smith said the AFL wouldn’t be interested in a crafty left footer – I thought – I’m not sure about that! Crafty left-footers are worth their weight in gold!!
For some reason, and I’m sure many AFL people would agree, left footers always seem to have a natural advantage at kicking the footy (in our game) – they have a lovely raking style that is almost the model for how to kick a footy.
Keiran Jack, is a left-footer, and despite only playing the game from around 13/14 years of age, he looks like an absolute natural (and I reckon that has a lot to do with him being a left footer).
Michael C said | August 3rd 2009 @ 2:07pm | Report comment
KJ is certainly establishing himself this year – showing the benefit of a year as a run with tagger type – he’s now developed an attacking side to his game and is kicking goals.
Pippinu said | August 3rd 2009 @ 4:15pm | Report comment
he drilled a nice one from around 50m yesterday when the game was in the balance
Pippinu said | August 6th 2009 @ 10:26am | Report comment
I finally stumbled on that vision of Hunt kicking I’ve been talking about – it’s here on ABC online:
http://www.abc.net.au/sport/afl/
scroll down to the Video section, it’s entitled Hunt leads game of AFL at training, or something like that.
There’s vision of him handballing and kicking – and I’ll brutally honest here, in terms of technique, it looks absolutely shocking.
AndyRoo said | August 6th 2009 @ 12:00pm | Report comment
Smith takes the mark 15 metres from goal, lines it up, a goal here will get them home. Here he goes…… oh no he’s Karmichaeled it.
——
Courtesy Fox Sports 2013 AFL coverage Round 14
Pippinu said | August 6th 2009 @ 10:41pm | Report comment
AndyRoo
I’m really, really not wishing that on Hunt at all!!!
But it does make his decision to play rugby all that more bizarre – he needs intensive training, along the lines of what Jimmy Stynes had to do, and he started with a bit of an advantage.
Pippinu said | August 8th 2009 @ 1:06pm | Report comment
The Coodabeens were just interviewing Michael Mansfield who played 180 odd games with the Cats in the 90s, including 3 losing grand final teams.
He tells the story of how as a 17 year old, having just been put on the senior list, he asked Blighty whether he could miss training one day to watch the Australian Tennis Open (i.e. middle of Summer).
Blighty said: yeh, no worries.
The following week, Mansfield found himself back with the U19s, and it took years for him to win Blight’s trust again (which he eventually managed to do).
The lesson? Playing footy at the elite level requires 100% commitment, there are no short cuts to be found.
If there is one thing that we can say about Hunt so early in the piece is that he has failed to leave us with the perception that he is truly committed to playing aussie rules.
Redb said | August 13th 2009 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Pip,
I hope your reading this article:
http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/hunt-is-pure-gold/2009/08/12/1249756351728.html
And just for good measure, a quote:
“When months of behind-the-scenes negotiations culminated in the announcement of Hunt’s signing a fortnight ago, unflattering vision of him kicking a Sherrin was televised around the country. It has since emerged that at the time Hunt was filmed he was making a deliberate attempt to look ungainly as he mucked around with the foreign ball at training with his Broncos teammates.”
Now I’m prettty sure but wasn’t that what some silly bloke commented on the Roar a couple of weeks ago. Hmmm… “I think you’ll find Hunt was just mucking around with his Broncos mates, ie: not trying too hard to look like an AFL player. ”
Turns out, he’s a natural left footer and kicked the ball with the Broncos on his right.
Redb
Pippinu said | August 13th 2009 @ 9:57am | Report comment
Heh, heh, thanks for the link redb – good article!
So – he was intentionally trying to look ungainly – let me just say that he did a good job of it!!
But we also have to read between the lines, here a quote from McKenna:
”Stationary kicking is a lot different to kicking on the run, we did a bit of that and that still went OK. It wasn’t as tight a package as it was when it was a set kick, but it was still fine,” he said.
”Our biggest challenge, when we can get our hands on him, is getting him through all that game-education and game-sense type training, which we can’t really do until we have him full-time at training.”
He’s spot on – kicking on the run is the key – add to that decision-making (i.e. the game sense, or what I have been calling “intuition for the game”).
But McKenna is satisfied that he has a sound technical base – and that’s good – Hunt needs everything going in his favour!!
Redb said | August 13th 2009 @ 10:31am | Report comment
Pip,
Kicking on the run can be worked on. But like many of the new rugby type recrutis they will hand ball to a running team-mate early days. At least he will be able to kick out of defence at full back, kick from a free kick or mark. He also takes the ball with arms out not a chest grab.
McKenna said its’ now 50% technical, 90% game sense.
If he can be used for tackling pressure alone they will help a young team. But we all know this is 70% about the conversion publicity and associated journey not that he will win a Brownlow in his first year.
There is another article in the paprer (cant find the web link) that puts a price on the pubilciity for the AFL to date at $7.5M. Paid for himself already.
Redb
Pippinu said | August 13th 2009 @ 10:38am | Report comment
redb
That he’s taking the ball out front is certainly a big advantage.
In relation to the tackling pressure, very true, but once again your game sense/intuition comes into it, as well as having a good feel for the rules (no doubt in his early games he will give away a stack of free kicks, that’s to be expected).
Re handballing – did you see his handballing technique??!!
Redb said | August 13th 2009 @ 10:49am | Report comment
No I havent seen him handball , but then again Jack, Lewis Robert-Thomson, even Pyke manage to get a hand ball away.
I reckon line him up at the bounce, when the pill hits the deck instruct to just run straight through the middle.
Marking another player will be tough on him – that is a foreign concept but at least he likes and understands the concept as a basketball fan.
This all points to his transition journey and this is where it is marketing gold – watching his development and adapation to a new game, and hey presto thats what he want a few other kids to do as well.
Redb
Redb said | August 13th 2009 @ 2:33pm | Report comment
$7.5M in publicity. As i said at the time it is marketing brilliance.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/karmichael-hunt-already-worth-his-weight-in-gold/story-e6frexnr-1225760794851
Redb
AndyRoo said | October 20th 2009 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
Since we are posting links from the terror
A bit of tripe that puts Foz to shame and not at all in the spirit of 78
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/afl-fires-first-shot-for-west/story-e6frext9-1225788453662
Michael C said | October 20th 2009 @ 2:20pm | Report comment
Interesting.
Funny thing is that all this ‘code war’ stuff…….what was it when the FFA lured John O’Neill and then Ben Buckley?
What was it when Melbourne Storm lured Brian Waldron?
It seems it’s only ‘war’ when it’s the AFL doing it.
And gee – the absolute Sydney arrogance of comments like “Today the Mexicans will announce.. “.
How very up themselves that is. At least with the North American context, the ‘Mexicans’ are people from another country. Not another state. In the Australian context it is just very droll.
AndyRoo said | October 20th 2009 @ 3:42pm | Report comment
Some bit’s are obviously joking but I don’t know where the joke starts or ends. And there other articles less amusing that are on a similar theme. Pretty over the top for a guy out of work in rugby league circles.
I nearly brought up Archie Fraser because I thought that situation is similar to what’s his name from Manly. I personally didn’t/still don’t know/care who the bloke from Manly was. The internal workings of Manly aren’t really of any interest and I wondered if non ST Kilda fans would have known/cared who Archie Fraser was before he started work at the FFA.
The border between Mexico and Australia also changes dependent on where your sitting. While I currently sit in Brisbane that means those Sydney siders are Mexicans…. I wonder if someone in Townsville would consider me a Mexican?
Hmmmm I feel like Tacos for dinner now.
John Ribot was pinched from league by the Brisbane Roar… only lasted a few weeks. A smart operator to jump that ship before it sinks.
Michael C said | October 20th 2009 @ 4:01pm | Report comment
Yeah, I couldn’t help but post on one of the DT threads – including Archie Fraser in the list to illustrate that the FFA are surely the greatest protagonists in ‘code wars’, So, if you factor in John Ribot too…….but, funnily enough, the Sydney anti AFL ‘media mafia’ don’t wan’t to draw swords against soccer??? Why is that so?
and that the AFL hasn’t actually ‘poached’ anyone from NRL yet.
in that, K.Hunt was already going, it was assumed to RU – - and it was only at that point the AFL recruiters (who knew of him as a talent) thought it worth a try. Perhaps he was ‘poached’ from RU…..but who?
A this executive fellow is, as you say, out of work. He was approached it seems by RU and HAL interestes, and has landed a job in the AFL fraternity.
Good on him. Hardly the stuff of code wars?!!??
AndyRoo said | October 21st 2009 @ 8:42am | Report comment
I think the key point was how many of these guys were actually wanted by their sport. John Oneil, John Ribot and now this Manly bloke were all out of work at the time.
Headline should be AFL lifeline for X
THat’s why I find it all amusing, oh no there giving people jobs. What next in there dastardly plan…. perhaps paying the public indemnity for local clubs so kids can afford to play sport!
I don’t think the K Hunt situation is going to be seen like that Michael. Sure he was likely to leave league at the end of it but AFL signed him while he was a contracted Rugby league player and still running around for the broncos.
You “mexicans” (in jest) are welcome to all the Bronco’s outside backs you can handle (having more than 2 in a confined space is dangerous) but hands of Jarred Hayne… although I would prefer he went to the Swans than Manly or the Roosters.
Pippinu said | October 20th 2009 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
AndyRoo
very amusing link!!
To be honest – I don’t know who these blokes are that are mentioned.
M1tch said | October 27th 2009 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
real figure will be afl juniors on the GC in 2010..and if it as so many has said…
kids will follow
Pippinu said | August 13th 2009 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
Redb
interesting point – thanks for the link.
Of course, there is still potential for a downside as we move into 2011, but it’s clear from those figures it would take a bloody big downside to go into the red on the deal.
Redb said | August 13th 2009 @ 2:55pm | Report comment
Pip,
it’s about the journey rather than the destination.
Redb
Pippinu said | August 13th 2009 @ 2:59pm | Report comment
Yes – that’s not inconsistent with what I just posted.
Pippinu said | October 20th 2009 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
just read that Karmichael Hunt has signed a decent deal for a short term stint with Biarritz.
From the Australian:
Hunt spent most of yesterday afternoon packing his bags, with the Sherrin presented to him by GC17 AFL head coach Guy McKenna tucked away nicely in a corner.
He is planning to get in plenty of practice before he returns for the start of what promises to be one of the most scrutinised pre-season training efforts in recent memory, acutely aware the task he has set himself is one many in AFL circles doubt he can successfully complete.
Of course, not everyone sees Hunt’s code-to-code-to-code switch as a publicity stunt doomed to fail, with one high-profile NRL coach offering this: “My fear isn’t that Karmichael will not be a success in AFL.
“I have no doubt he will be. He will bring things to that game that they have never seen before,” he said.
“My real fear is he will make such a success of it that more of the great young players we have in our game will start to see it as a genuine option.”
_________________
He’ll spend about half a season in the VFL (essentially the AFL reserves comp), as part of his learning program before the Gold Coast debuts the following season – and that alone will be fascinating. I’d love to catch an early game of his to see how he is going.
Pippinu said | October 27th 2009 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
Don’t worry folks – I’ve just read that Hunt has packed a Sherrin in his bag for his trip to France. Phew!!
That’s just in case he forgot that when he gets back he is going to do the near impossible – and play top grade games in 3 different football codes in the space of 18 months (the VFL won’t count as that is below the top grade – the 18 month period is from Sept 09 to March 2011, assuming he debuts in the first round).
He will have a lot of eyes on him next year, no doubt.
Redb said | October 27th 2009 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
The eyes have it. The longer he delays playing in the VFL the more time it will take to adapt to new skills under game pressure.
Of course it’s too early to know what role he will take on. I’d stick him in defence and get him to chase the man with the Sherrin until he learns the instincts required. His tackling with technique modifications wont be a problem.
Mr Hunt, welcome to Frontal Pressure – you have a role.
May 2010 onwards will be fascinating. Reality TV stuff – Note to AFL – get Foxtel onto this!
Redb
Redb said | October 27th 2009 @ 1:20pm | Report comment
actually I meant stick him in the forward line.
Redb
AndyRoo said | October 27th 2009 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
I have said this before but I think he should be used as some kind of Defensive Forward. A Brett Holman style player.
Running around putting pressure on defences trying to create turn overs.
In defence if you make a mistake it costs goals and playing it out of your own 50 you will be very exposed if your distribution is no good.
Also entertainment wise if he scores a goal it would be great. There is much more chance of that happening if he is set free in the opposition 50 to hurt people, win possesion and stab it through to goals.
Redb said | October 27th 2009 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
Agree, forward line apply frontal pressure, etc is probably the go.
Would be useful in defence but I think a good forward would expose him one on one. He needs to pick up a man, very different to what he is used to, it will take time. he would get beaten on the lead early days highly embarassing if he gets killed there.
Running around hurting people is unlikely given it will quickly result in free kicks if done too haphazardly. Can certainly tackle hard legally no prob’s there. In fact some implied pressure for the youthful GC team might be a big positive.
Redb
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Pippinu said | October 27th 2009 @ 1:40pm | Report comment
Yes – agree – defensive forward is the way to go – he can work on negating the runners from half-back, occasionally get a bit of the ball – but there’s not too much damage if he makes a mistake.
The Bullies have had an athletic young bloke from a rugby background, Tom Williams, playing with them as a centre half back – a big ask for any kid to hold down a position like that – and he has a lot of excellent attributes – but occasionally his lack of undertanding of the game shines through, and I’ve seen games where he has been directly involved in conceding three goals in the space of five minutes.
But he has been worth the gamble – if he can get over his run of injuries.
It’s an interesting history – if people are interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Williams_(Australian_rules_footballer)
But back to Hunt – make no mistake – for a while he will be chasing plenty of tail.
As for the VFL, it’s a good point that he can play the part of the enforcer for some of those young blokes – the team will be much younger than the other VFL teams, who are a mixture of AFL rookies and hardened blokes who never quite made the grade – but they know what the game is about.
A bloke like Hunt in that context will be quite handy – perhaps some time on the ball early on if a bit of body on body pressure is needed!!
Redb said | October 27th 2009 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
at least Hunt will also still have a full preseason to get this fitness right before 2011.
Pippinu said | October 27th 2009 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
Re-reading that Tom Williams article – it just occurred to me that that he was spotted by Mark Browning.
Wan’t it Mark Browning who spotted Hunt playing some school boy aussie rules way back?
Browning might have a bit of an eye for this sort of stuff!
Redb said | October 27th 2009 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
sure has. heard a bit about Tom Williams not seen much of him though. Sam Gilbert (St Kilda) is a good example of rugby to AFL convert, good tackling, side step, but kicking skills still ordinary under pressure.
Pippinu said | October 27th 2009 @ 2:05pm | Report comment
I’ve seen Williams play some terrific games – he blanketed Buddy Franklin in their premiership year during the regular season – and he’s got a good, consistent kick on him (if not a big range of kicking – rugby players can be quite consistent kicks over their range) – it’s just the inexplicably dumb things that can happen to a player who is relatively new to the game (not taking the first option, running back into trouble, failing to go when he has to go, etc).
AndyRoo said | October 27th 2009 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
That’s not really his go in rugby league. He can pull of a hit but I guess as a full back he has never been required to be an enforcer. And with guys like Thaiday and Tony Carrol around him it wouldn’t be recquired.
I guess by the time the Gold Coast come into AFL he will be a bit older though and it always helps to have guys in the team you know “can handle it” for others to draw from.
I am probably more excitied about his VFL games than his AFL games because against semi pros he has a better shot at being a real influence on the game and gettign more touches.
Redb said | October 27th 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
no doubt the VFL will be give him more time to get use to the game, but half season is not as desirable as a full season. IMO he will get a bit of a shock when it comes to actually playing a game unless given a very specific role.
Can be lonely on a footy field If you cant get your hands on the pill.
Pippinu said | October 27th 2009 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
AndyRoo
I agree – he’ll have half a chance of getting involved in a VFL game (where it’s that tiny bit slower).
Football at the elite level, in all codes, gets quicker as you move up the rungs – if he debuts in the GC’s first game in 2011 – I think he might be surprised at how fast everything is – his preparation will not have prepared him.
It’s all those things that you can’t really know about unless you’re in the thick of it: reaction time, execution at speed under pressure, knowing where to be, knowing which way to turn, where to run to next, all that sort of stuff – he won’t have an instinct for it, and being a millisecond slower than the others (in thought processes) can be enough to be made to look silly.
But I agree with you and redb – his stint in the VFL will be like reality TV – if only we can get to see a bit of it – absolutely every touch (or non-touch) will be scrutinised to buggery!!
That alone is going to require enormous mental toughness.
Redb said | October 27th 2009 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
his mental toughness appears Ok from a distance. he certainly copped some shite from RL types after his ‘defection’, from people he regards as legends. Took it all in his stride to his credit.
AndyRoo said | October 27th 2009 @ 3:42pm | Report comment
I would say his interview on the NRL Footy Show was a pretty good performance. I can’t remember the exact questions but here were some curley ones and by his answers you would never have guessed his young age.
He got a lot of respect from me for that.
Pippinu said | October 27th 2009 @ 3:49pm | Report comment
True.
He also copped some curly ones from the AFL side (some of whom, like Mark Maclure, who hails from Sydney, were completely dismissive of him on ABC radio).
Gerard Whately is a fairly circumspect sports commentator, covering a variety of sports and he summed up his feeling about it this way:
1. he felt Hunt would “proably be credible” (which is much more than many think); but
2. he was concerned at how casual Hunt was about it all.
This latter point is a fair observation. Hunt is incredibly confident, you need to be to do something like this, but
1. is he confident and casual because he knows he’s going to nail it immediately?
2. or is he confident and casual about it because he hasn’t got a clue?
These are the questions.
AndyRoo said | October 27th 2009 @ 3:58pm | Report comment
That’s the great mystery about it
Is it for the cash or is he fair dinkum
The fact he is only early 20’s suggests yes
The fact he is playing in France hints at no
We will just have to wait to find out.
Pippinu said | November 6th 2009 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
One thing I have tried to impress people on, in both this article and other comments, is the enormous mental toughness needed by Hunt to successfully do what he is trying to do – very few people can be taken out of their comfort zone like that and succeed – it’s an extraordinary test.
Tadgh Kennelly has just written a book about this experience in coming from Gaelic football to aussie rules as a teenager, and he provides a very detailed account of the challenges. Some quotes:
“Kennelly admits that during his second year in Sydney, before he had even made his senior debut, he would often find himself in a “very dark place”. He would cry himself to sleep each night.”
“I was in a very dark place; in fact, I would say I was depressed. Each night I would cry myself to sleep. I would hide in my room and ask myself over and over again, ‘What the f— am I doing?’
“The problem was simple: I was out of my comfort zone. When I came to Australia, I wasn’t just in a totally different environment off the field, I was also in a totally different environment on the field. I was lost, like a lost puppy. I really had no place where I was comfortable.”
“Kennelly says he wondered if he was good enough to play in the AFL, admitting he had not realised how difficult the transition from Gaelic football to Australian football would be. The thing that kept him from quitting was a fear of failure.”
Hunt will not have to contend with the homesickness, but it remains a massive mental challenge.
For starters, learning the game in the VFL, playing in front of crowds of 100 people, with the spotlight on him, that in itself will test his mental toughness – having to prove himself against blokes who will never play AFL who will take great joy in showing him up at every opportunity – that’s before we even get to the bit of actually playing the game.
Michael C said | November 6th 2009 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
yep, just read that about Kennelly,
at least Hunt will be still ‘at home’ locally,
and, may have the benefit of brother in law Scott Harding by his side (wait and see on that front).
Redb said | November 6th 2009 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
Pip,
It’s not a bad comparison and agree Hunt will need to keep his pride in check until the learns the game, no matter how good he is.
However Hunt, unlike Kennelly, has played competitive professional sport for 5-6 years before he dips his toe into another pond. Kennelly came from an amatuer sport with little representative caps,etc.
Hunt will have a bunch of relatively junior players around him on the Gold Coast, allowing him to step up as little as a mature player rather than joining a hardened outfit like say Geelong. That will help.
Let’s not kid ourselves he will be a pinch hitter off the bench given specific jobs. However it is way too early to predict the outcome/success.
Redb
Pippinu said | November 6th 2009 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
MC/redb
all good points.