A new view on a Second Division in the A-league
Roar Rookie By jaymz, 12 Aug 2009 jaymz is a Roar Rookie
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I propose to amalgamate State League teams that are strong and financially viable, and in a close proximity together, and rebrand them. So for example, in Sydney you could amalgamate Marconi, Sydney United and Bankstown City Lions.
They would then be rebranded “South West United,” with new colours obviously, and there would be a large pool of quality players to build a team from (alongside a few key signings).
Combining the support from the three clubs would also enable a solid supporter base to build, as well as sponsorship deals and funding already in place in each club. So you get all the resources from the three clubs put into this one kind of “super club.”
There would always be players ready and available and the team would have three Academies for youth players (or amalgamated into one giant academy).
This is the best way to bring “Old Soccer” and “New Football” together, as well as fast-tracking the second division.
I know the rebranding is not automatically going to shed the “ethnic” vibe, but because the clubs have been amalgamated, it brings the different groups of fans together. And with some positive promotional campaigns involving the community, they really can become teams based on demography and not ethnicity.
You could get two teams each from Victoria and NSW, one from South Australia, and one from Queensland. Then the final two spots could be made up from teams who were unsuccessful in bidding for an A-league licence.
This could be implemented within five to seven years.
Recommend this story.
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August 12th 2009 @ 1:42pm
Killer_Tomatoes said | August 12th 2009 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
my point jaymz, was made rudely, but still stands. No Knights fan is going to support the merging of it and any other club in less it is another Croatian club, like St Albans, who are not even close to big enough to get a decent fan base out of a merger between the two, especially when you consider that most Altona fans are also Knights fans – or were before they were banned, the same goes for United and Edensor Park. Altona and Sprinvale is in theory a good idea for a merger, but where would you play their games considering they’re on completely opposite sides of a very large city geographically? The new Swan Street Stadium? They wouldn’t even get 5k, not worth the cost to either club. Heidelberg, Oakleigh and South, although may just have enough fans between them to justify playing them in the SSS are hardly going to come together, even though they’re all Greek sides. You only have to look at what the Italian backed clus have doen to eachother in Melboure, with Whitlesea as good as destroying Bulleen and Fawkner in earlier failed mergers, to see that just because ethnicity is shared, does not mean a lot else is held in common.
It is a horrible idea that would fail from day one, that is all there is to it.
August 12th 2009 @ 1:46pm
Pippinu said | August 12th 2009 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
With those Italian clubs merging – you would have had Sicilians on one table; Calabrians on another; Northerners on another – maayte – they never had a chance!!!
August 12th 2009 @ 2:23pm
dasilva said | August 12th 2009 @ 2:23pm | Report comment
I don’t mind having clubs with loose ties to ethnic clubs into the A-league. Also I think people have to differentiate between a club that is popular with the ethnic community or a club that has ethnic board members then a ethnic club that primary role is to serve their ethnic community.
However the have to demonstrate the clubs is there to serve the entire community. Also they have to follow the strict rules that FFA has about only australian flags are allowed into an A-league match.
Some one pointed out that Brisbane roar has connections to ethnic dutch clubs. However since it’s pretty clear that club is there to serve the entire community and not the dutch community and we don’t see dutch flags waving around in any queensland match then that is ok. The greeks, italians and croatian clubs have to demonstrate they can do the same as well before they are allowed in the A-league
August 12th 2009 @ 2:32pm
Pippinu said | August 12th 2009 @ 2:32pm | Report comment
…of course British and US flags are more than welcome.
August 12th 2009 @ 2:38pm
dasilva said | August 12th 2009 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
Do we actually see US flags waving around in any A-League matches?
August 12th 2009 @ 2:47pm
Pippinu said | August 12th 2009 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
No – I don’t think we do – although I’ve often wondered what would happen if someone brought a Scottish flag to a Victory game. Similar colours and we do use Scotland the Brave as our club song.
It’s just an interesting thought. I only mentioned the US flag because if a club had the colours of red, white and blue (for argument’s sake), someone might be tempted to show up with it for a bit of razzle dazzle.
Would the powers that be get too upset about a British or US flag?
Admittedly, they did go troppo about the Eureka flag, so maybe that’s our answer.
But my point is that a small double standard was allowed to arise between the standards applied agaisnt the really woggy clubs, and those that aren’t quite as woggy.
August 12th 2009 @ 3:40pm
dasilva said | August 12th 2009 @ 3:40pm | Report comment
http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/site/_content/document/00000028-source.pdf
(g) not, and must not attempt to, bring into a venue national or political flags or
emblems (except for the recognised national flags of any of the competing teams)
or offensive or inappropriate banners, whether written in English or a foreign
language;
The code clearly states you can only bring national flags of any competing team. Unless Australia plays USA or Scotland or England. then those flags shouldn’t be allowed in the stadium
whether the code is enforced equally for all nationality may be debateable but the rules are non-discrimatory in term of race.
August 12th 2009 @ 4:21pm
Pippinu said | August 12th 2009 @ 4:21pm | Report comment
Thanks das – I just have a suspicion that some flags are considered more nationalistic/inappropriate than others
August 12th 2009 @ 4:29pm
Art Sapphire said | August 12th 2009 @ 4:29pm | Report comment
I noticed an English flag and a Scottish flag behind the goals in Townsville with F Troop last Saturday. Does the FFA need to tell our Northern friends that they are “verboten”??
August 12th 2009 @ 4:42pm
Pippinu said | August 12th 2009 @ 4:42pm | Report comment
Well spotted Art!
And besides – if there’s one club that should be flying a Scottish flag – it’s us!!!
August 12th 2009 @ 2:32pm
Davos said | August 12th 2009 @ 2:32pm | Report comment
I would like to hear from someone who is deeply invloved with a “old NSL football club” and get their opinion on the matter.
One of my first questions would be, would the old ethnic rivalries turn to violence in this new modern /marketing /product /branding football world that now exists in Australia if you were invited, and with serious consideration to the opportunities the club you gain by admission and therefore the losses if the club fans were to regress to what would be describe in the franchise charter as deplorable?
August 12th 2009 @ 2:38pm
Killer_Tomatoes said | August 12th 2009 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
My view on that Davos is that the ethnic rivalry would only be a problem if you were to let in say both Hellas and Knights (or Preston). If it was just Hellas or Knights allowed in, it is very unlikely you will see, say the Knights hardcore alligning themselves with Melbourne Victory fans to attack South Hellas fans, the same situation would go for fans of clubs in Sydney such as Olympic or United and Sydney FC. What you may see though, is an increase in violence, regdless of ethinc tensions, between old-NSL clubs and the new A-League clubs based in the same city, where Hellas (or whoever) fans and Victory fans may violently interact, and similar with United (or Olympic) fans and SFC.
August 12th 2009 @ 4:25pm
Davos said | August 12th 2009 @ 4:25pm | Report comment
So basically they would cut off their nose to spite their face, given that these ‘old clubs’ would receive huge financial incentives and international exposure for their club, they (generalization) would not be able offer the A-L/2 a diverse and sophisticated fan/supporter base!
August 12th 2009 @ 4:40pm
Killer_Tomatoes said | August 12th 2009 @ 4:40pm | Report comment
If that is what you want to call it (cutting off their nose to spite their face) then yes. A section of Hellas fans still seem genreally convinced they can get back in to a top-tier competition in this country, and so still hold out hope. But if they ever were to acheive this, you can gaurantee there would be a minority who would come along to ruin the party (and a minority of Victory fans who would oblige them openly). As for clubs like Knights, Olympic, United, Preston; their fans have long since given up any realsitic ambition of playing in the A-League or similar and seem happy to make the most of their current situation while continuing to despise Victory, the FFA and the A-LEague for everything they stand for.
August 12th 2009 @ 2:46pm
David V. said | August 12th 2009 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
Many of these ethnic clubs have contributed wonderful things to football, but their failure to adopt to changing times is what spelt their doom at top level. The alienating feeling of nationalism was never so prevalent at Italian-backed clubs as it was at, say, Croatian-backed clubs (where that and overt bigotry is outright worst) but that’s because their cultures and historical situations are radically different. Croatian sports clubs worldwide were simply the sporting wing of an exiled nationalist movement, Croatia looking to assert itself apart from a Serbian-dominated Yugoslavia. Italy is a different case because it, like Germany only became nation-states in the 19th century (whereas Great Britain and Spain only became “nations” in the 18th).
It’s one thing to have ethnic roots and honour them, but another thing altogether to move on and become more inclusive- this the clubs here singularly failed to do, and coupled with a blatant lack of professionalism, led to the situation that unfolded.
As a matter of fact, the supporter bases of “ethnic” clubs even at state level has eroded due to social and demographic factors, and will continue to erode.
August 12th 2009 @ 2:51pm
Pippinu said | August 12th 2009 @ 2:51pm | Report comment
David V is correct with his last statement – and this is why I feel that some time down the track, there will be an opportunity for “old” clubs to enter an A-League 2nd tier.
August 12th 2009 @ 4:08pm
Brian said | August 12th 2009 @ 4:08pm | Report comment
I dont think any of the thnic clubs would have the supporter base to carry an HAL franchise. Lets say S.Melb, the largest “old NSL” club were allowed to join. All non-Greek supporters in Melbourne would forever remain Victory supporters. That means this new clubs potential supporter-base is the non-growing Greek community of Melbourne. At best they would one day get 20% of the market like Port Adelaide in the AFL Adelaide market. If say the Knights were allowed in, well thats even worse, only Croats as possible supporters. Better to go with new untainted clubs that have a chance to harness support from more than just one ethnic community.
August 12th 2009 @ 4:20pm
Pippinu said | August 12th 2009 @ 4:20pm | Report comment
There’s an element of truth in that. It remains to be seen what support Hearts garners.
I suspect they will try and attract the anti-Victory support (of which there’s a fair bit) and interestingly – that might mean Hellas and Knights supporters!!
There’s a view that in terms of who would have attracted the most support, that Hellas would have from the outset – but it’s probably true that in the long run, Hearts would be able to match whatever Hellas could have managed.
August 12th 2009 @ 4:34pm
Killer_Tomatoes said | August 12th 2009 @ 4:34pm | Report comment
Sorry Pippinu, but that won’t happen. What a lot of people fail to see is that Knights, Hellas, and ex-NSL fans in general are not anti-Victory or SFC but anti-A-League, because the advent of the A-League disregarded them and their contibutuon to australian football. No significant amount of die hard Knights or South supporters is going to jump on board with any new ‘franchise’ (that being the key word here) just out of disliek for Victory, if they were going to do that they would’ve abondoned their clubs long ago. And anyways, if they were coming on board just out of a genuine hatred of Victory, we would see a return to NSL violence, and that would mean that if the dissafected old-football minority is Hearts target audience then they, and the FFA by proxy, are promoting a return to the ‘dark days’.
August 12th 2009 @ 4:43pm
Pippinu said | August 12th 2009 @ 4:43pm | Report comment
I think you’re right (that they’re anit A-League) – but I wonder if a few wouldn’t be attracted by the proposition of a bit of mayhem at a Victory match??
August 12th 2009 @ 4:46pm
Killer_Tomatoes said | August 12th 2009 @ 4:46pm | Report comment
Undoubtedly, but do ‘you’ really want that? Do the FFA really want that? I don’t think so, I also think that they don’t have to actually ‘support’ another club to instigate trouble between themselves and Victory fans under the guise of a new franchise.
August 12th 2009 @ 4:56pm
Pippinu said | August 12th 2009 @ 4:56pm | Report comment
I don’t want it – but I didn’t invite the 2nd team in either!!
August 12th 2009 @ 5:32pm
md said | August 12th 2009 @ 5:32pm | Report comment
Isn’t that why you employ Muscat?
August 12th 2009 @ 5:48pm
Pippinu said | August 12th 2009 @ 5:48pm | Report comment
Muskie has been an ornament to the game.
August 12th 2009 @ 6:02pm
md said | August 12th 2009 @ 6:02pm | Report comment
http://godssecret.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/piercings.jpg
August 12th 2009 @ 2:50pm
cbowden9000 said | August 12th 2009 @ 2:50pm | Report comment
Jaymz, I believe this is a great idea, however a slight alteration should be made. The second division of the A-League should have each state represented by a new team, say “Queensland United”, made up from the strongest state-league clubs that merge together. Only about 2 or 3 of the strongest clubs shold merge, as to keep the quality as high as possible.
August 13th 2009 @ 1:09pm
Millster said | August 13th 2009 @ 1:09pm | Report comment
A few points before I get back to my work:
1. It is about 15 years too early to be talking of a 2nd division at all within the league structure. We should not prostitute the careful growth of the A-League to a couple of extra ACL spots.
2. We have the Cup structure side of things to explore as a much better alternative for linking up the A-League and the state-level football community.
August 13th 2009 @ 3:44pm
milhouse1 said | August 13th 2009 @ 3:44pm | Report comment
Im a 2nd generation croatian who was a massive sydney croatia (united) fan. Im also now a sydney fc fan and i luv the a league. Bringing back the old nsl clubs would be a big mistake. The fans are dropping year by year in the state leagues for the old nsl teams. the italian, greek and croatians communities just aren’t what they used to be. expecting these clubs to go back to the hayday of the 70′s and 80′s is just a joke. expecting them to merge is an even bigger 1. I know from experience that the suggestion of such a thing would have the sydney croatia fans boycotting matches. they would much rather stay in there state leagues and keep there identity. What the FFA should do is help these old clubs financially and allow them to do what they did best and nurture young talent. when the ethnics clubs were kicked out most of the great coaches and true football people went with them. we need to find a way to get those people involved in the game we all love.
August 13th 2009 @ 3:58pm
Towser said | August 13th 2009 @ 3:58pm | Report comment
Agree milhouse1. The days of ethnic clubs as a power in football are gone but their heritage neednt be. By heritage I dont mean the mostly crap mainstream media concentrated on ,but their football heritage,the ability to produce many Socceroos & the like. This it appears to me is still not sorted & needs to be for the benefit of football as a whole.
To me its like cutting off the usefullness of the lower divisions in England to the overall benefit of football . The EPL is the apex but the rest contribute enormously to the games overall strength. A cup comp is talked about maybe this could help.