By Steve Kaless
August 28th 2009 @ 6:51am
Don’t believe the hype, the code war is a myth
Dallas Johnson from the Storm is spear tackled in the NRL by Gold Coast Titans players AAP Image/Action Photographics/Jeff Crow
I don’t want to be the one who tells you that Santa Claus may not be who you think he is, but all this talk of code wars is about as close to reality as a bloke who breaks into your house and leaves you iPods instead of taking them. There I’ve said it.
I’ve read a lot about the apparent code wars that are occurring on my doorstep, but never heard a lot of concrete proof.
In fact, the only things I’ve heard which are apparently proof actually make me even more convinced it is a lot of hype, whipped up by media types who are fighting their own losing battle against dwindling ad revenues and circulations.
Sure, people are protective of their favourite codes. They don’t like them being bagged, or worse still, told they won’t be around in 30 years. But in the end, it is just an extension of the age old art of naval gazing.
Here’s why:
1. “People I know”
Surely the most commonly used phrase in the code war. One conversation with one particular punter is apparently enough to write the death certificate of any particular sport or confirm its dominance. That this particular punter may be wearing a Bulldogs, Waratahs, Mariners or Dockers jersey is rarely seen as any bias, as we agree with them.
Importantly, we see comments that reinforce our own bias as unheralded pieces of wisdom.
An opinion piece we agree with is ‘great journalism’ one that we don’t is ‘terrible, lazy journalism’. We ignore the fact that just because we don’t agree with something, doesn’t make it a good piece of writing.
Another example, a certain columnist attends a nameless charity lunch in Melbourne. He speaks with an unnamed member of the basketball world and apparently a number of unnamed people from AFL.
The columnist returns from his lunch convinced that others now share his view of the sporting world, because they may or may not have agreed with him over a few wines on a few points.
A compelling piece of social research? No. A piece of hype in a Sunday paper to get the blood boiling? Yes.
But let’s return to all that later.
2. Mutual exclusivity
The only time a “code war” actually exists is when you are forced to choose spending on one sport over another. In reality, this occurs very rarely.
The A-League shares largely a different calendar to the rest of the football codes, so is not really any form of direct competition.
A spectator who turns up in July to Energy Australia Stadium in Newcastle to watch the Knights is not then banned from doing so in February to watch the Jets.
Even when the time frames are shorter (in relation to the other football codes), people can still choose to spread their income across sports. The fact that matches are largely played across four days gives the organisers plenty to work with and they largely look to avoid a conflict which would harm their own gate.
3. The GFC
The Global Financial Crisis has added pressure to some household budgets and was meant to intensify the code war.
The reality was different.
Australia is apparently already on the road to recovery. Unemployment may have risen slightly, but people are hardly choosing the soup kitchen over attending a sporting match.
More than 90 percent of the workforce remains employed, their income unchanged. This is not the dire scenario predicted by our beloved media and therefore should not alter our sporting landscape in the slightest.
4. No code stands still
The biggest problem with people who espouse a code war is that they always do so from their own code’s development perspective. It’s naïve.
For argument’s sake, let’s take Craig Foster again.
Foster argues that in 20 years, football will be number one. This is by imagining his particular code with 20 years of development.
But Foster, like so many before, think that all other sports will, in 20 years, be in the same place they are today.
This is wrong
Every football code in this country will have made significant advances on where they are today. Of course, some may do it better than others. Which code does it best will be decided … in 20 years time.
5. The dual enemies
I’d argue that sporting codes have two real enemies: the concept of nothing and the enemy within.
First the concept of nothing.
The real enemy for footballing codes isn’t other footballing codes. It’s things like shopping, dining and other forms of entertainment.
Hen pecked ‘men’ choosing to spend their weekends wandering around large shopping malls with their partners looking for cushions and crockery and the many variations of the Stepford Husband is what will kill sporting clubs.
Rugby League hasn’t been blown away by AFL on the box, AFL hasn’t been blown away by the NRL. They were both slammed dunked by shows like Australian Masterchef, Packed to the Rafters and The Biggest Loser.
Live sport is up against shows that play on people’s competitive instincts (like sport) but also their vanity, greed … or stupidity.
It is similar with the battle for juniors.
Turn away from the sports pages and you don’t get stories about Australian society being filled with exhausted kids who have been flat out playing four different football codes in an effort to make one final grand decision.
No, you hear about Australian children, playing less sport and being some of the fattest in the world.
If there is a war going on for the hearts and minds, the football codes are getting hammered by PlayStations and junk food (another industry which seems content with multiple providers).
The other enemy is within themselves: The fair-weather fan.
The codes’ biggest battle is not converting others to follow their game, but convincing those who already do to get out to grounds and support their side.
The A-League provides the best example of this, but it affects every sport.
Quickly again to Foster who argued that every goal by Lyon convinces an Australian that football was a beautiful game. Maybe, but Australians watching Ligue One is the last thing the FFA wants.
They want people being convinced that football is the beautiful game, but by watching Sydney FC or anyone else in the A-League. There are enough football fans in Australia to fill most grounds a number of times over.
But A-League crowds suffer because people follow teams from European towns they have never visited and look down their noses at the local product.
Perhaps the best question for Foster is: How many Lyon backheels and scissor kicks will it take to fill Dairy Farmers Stadium?
But if every goal by Lyon or Barcelona convinces people of value in the beautiful game, wouldn’t every mark from Buddy Franklin do the same for AFL? Wouldn’t a Jaryd Hayne chip ‘n chase do it for the greatest game of all?
Wouldn’t a flick pass from Berrick Barnes do it for the game they play in heaven?
6. Population
How can the Gold Coast support three football codes when they previously couldn’t support one? That is a question I’ve heard many times. The answer is simple, it can because it has changed.
The Gold Coast is no longer just some tourist strip and a few hungover schoolies. It is the fastest growing area of Australia, in terms of population.
Codes are flocking there, not because they are looking for a fight, but they see a market that can support professional sport. Sure they will have to work hard to get people to back their team, but more to get them to turn off the plasma rather than turn up because they already own one type of jersey.
Public Enemy were right all those years ago. Don’t believe the hype.
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(101)
Kurt said | August 28th 2009 @ 4:05am | Report comment
This may well be the most sensible, articulate, well balanced, reasonable piece of writing in the history of The Roar. As such I demand that it be deleted immediately and the writer horse-whipped to within an inch of his life. Sorry Steve, but there’s just no place for this sort of writing in modern sports journalism.
Mind you, “…you don’t get stories about Australian society being filled with exhausted kids who have been flat out playing four different football codes in an effort to make one final grand decision.” may be one of the better lines I have heard in a while.
AndyRoo said | August 28th 2009 @ 9:00am | Report comment
I also thought that line was a classic.
tifosi said | August 28th 2009 @ 6:11am | Report comment
oh man not another code war article………….
But like kurt said, this was a good read.
Lets get kids playing sport no matter what code or game they prefer.
Robbos said | August 28th 2009 @ 8:12am | Report comment
Here we go again Steve, as fit we already haven’t spent enough time on this, especially me…..
While I agree with the comments about the kids & that they should have the opportunity to play as many sports as possible to see which games fits them best, but most of your other comments are coming from a Rugby League fan.
Mutual exclusivity.
The A-League doesn’t compete with the other codes but RL & RU & now AFL all share the same timezones in that sense, they are in direct competition with each other for sponsorship, TV ratings & media space. Iin RL & RU’s case they are in direct competition for players. For years RL plundered RU for players & now the shoe is on the foot.
The media hype & fans alike on the Sonny Bill Williams episode was an example of this. Sure I don’t condone people reneging on their contact but hey Public Enemy No 1 when there was others who glassed their own girlfriend was a bit rich.
Why because he changed from RL to RU & funny enough to a country where you could watch every a Lyon goal live, so maybe Lyon is not really that far away. No code war here? I think so.
Foster’s article was an opinion piece on football (not A-League) growing this country, his opinion was that in 20 years, football would be the dominant sport, no different to Phil Gould’s article on the hottest player in RL at present & his throwaway line that he is the best footballer of any code at present in Australia. His opinion, not sure how much research was done to come up with this assumption? A piece of hype in a Sunday paper to get the blood boiling? Yes.
Why was the Gould article not taken to task by our esteem ‘The Great Australian Game’ followers & yourself?
BTW you article also had a opinion piece that could get the blood boiling. ‘Wouldn’t a Jaryd Hayne chip ‘n chase do it for the GREATEST GAME OF ALL?’ in the code war. This is your opinion & you are entiltled to it, but I’m not sure how much research was done to come to this conclusion..
mitzter said | August 28th 2009 @ 8:42am | Report comment
“the greatest game of all” is a catch phrase used for rugby league, just like “the game they play in heaven” for rugby union and “the beautiful game” for soccer.
Don’t know what they use for afl but they do try and push the whole ‘ only australian indiginous game”
Redb said | August 28th 2009 @ 8:47am | Report comment
Well at least in AFL’s case it’s true!
Actually we prefer the Great Australian game.
Too good to let that one by
Redb
Steve Kaless said | August 28th 2009 @ 11:41pm | Report comment
Robbos,
I was merely pointing out that while a spectacular goal can have people proclaiming football as “the beautiful game”, so can a can a spectacular try have the fans of the rugby codes have them reaching for their catch phrases and an Aussie Rules goal or mark also wins people over.
Your point about Gould’s piece being hype to whip up the masses is probably right. I’ll admit I didn’t read it (probably for that stated reason), hence it wasn’t referred to.
JF said | August 28th 2009 @ 8:55am | Report comment
“Hen pecked ‘men’ choosing to spend their weekends wandering around large shopping malls with their partners looking for cushions and crockery and the many variations of the Stepford Husband is what will kill sporting clubs.”
- Great stuff Steve !
Pippinu said | August 28th 2009 @ 9:35am | Report comment
Yeh – great line – agree with most, terrific piece.
Robbos
not sure what your problem is exactly – Steve’s reference to the greatest game of all was more for a bit of comic relief, a reminder to us as to who the author is, and that we are all subject to human frailties.
But I do believe that a bit of a consensus is emerging in the Roar:
League = the greatest game of all
Rugby = the game they play in heaven
Australian Football = the Great Australian game
Soccer = the World Game
There – who could possibly argue with that?
Robbos said | August 28th 2009 @ 10:02am | Report comment
No problem Pip. Just getting in abit of comic relief in between work.
Brett McKay said | August 28th 2009 @ 9:17am | Report comment
Steve, I agree with almost everything here, AND this is a great piece of writing…
simonjzw said | August 28th 2009 @ 9:19am | Report comment
What is it about football that creates so much passion? (and when I use the term football I’m using it in the generic sense – an out door team game played in mostly winter that involves kicking a ball for some of the time).
Wherever in the world you are people go crazy over the predominant code – in Europe, Asia, South America and greater Africa that code is Soccer, in the USA it’s Gridiron, in New Zealand and South Africa it’s Rugby Union, in Ireland it’s Gaelic Football and here in Australia it’s the AFL & NRL (with Rugby Union and Soccer alsom showing strong support).
Sure we like our cricket, baseball, tennis, swimming, athletics etc.
But we LOVE our football… why is it so?
whiskeymac said | August 28th 2009 @ 9:20am | Report comment
yup good article. well reasoned and good examples and balanced. nice one.
onside said | August 28th 2009 @ 9:27am | Report comment
But the next rugby Super franchise has been given to Western Sydney ,
instead of Melbourne , to offset the proposed new AFL team.Coincidence?
TammyS said | August 28th 2009 @ 9:50am | Report comment
I thought they give it to melbourne?
onside said | August 28th 2009 @ 10:54am | Report comment
Melbourne has been defrocked.Western Sydney has the nod.
Pippinu said | August 28th 2009 @ 11:10am | Report comment
The ARU has awarded the license to a Sydney-based consortium:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25990737-5015651,00.html
I don’t think that means that the team will now be based in West Sydney – althought this article is silent on that point.
AndyRoo said | August 28th 2009 @ 11:16am | Report comment
The name of their bid has the words Vic in it
it will be based out of Melbourne….but without the VRU support.
Michael C said | August 28th 2009 @ 9:50am | Report comment
re the battle for juniors -
it needn’t so much be the ‘hen pecked men’, but, certain codes have had cause for concern with ‘hen pecked kids’, apparently over protective mums and the whole (contrived or otherwise) “soccer mum”, seemingly sending her only child or only son to a ’safer option’ sport.
How true or otherwise that is?
Smaller family units? More later age marriages, and many more late age parents with 1 or 2 child families.
These sorts of demography changes can see attitudes change. Apart from anything, mum and day as older age parents are going to struggle to ‘lead by example’, compared to a 20 something yr old dad who might have 10 years of playing left in him for his oldest kids to witness.
To me, I thought this WAS an area where there’s been some real change that has required actions within sports. (see part 2)
Allen said | August 28th 2009 @ 10:14am | Report comment
Great read!
NEWSFLASH:
Dimetriou, Gallop, O’Neill and Buckley hold unprecidented joint press conference to put an end to the code war and declare a new war against masterchef, fair weather fans and fat kids!
AndyRoo said | August 28th 2009 @ 10:23am | Report comment
Actually there are quite a few cross code ventures that are aimed at increasing participation and fitness.
Michael C said | August 28th 2009 @ 10:36am | Report comment
AFL, Netball and Cricket have been working an unholy alliance – - on that 1Seven campaign, (Move well, Eat well).
AGO74 said | August 28th 2009 @ 10:15am | Report comment
Good article with some good lines. For the record I love NRL and football (though Craig Foster is a complete nob), AFL is ok to watch on TV and Rugby Union is blah. What I prefer is not really that important but what annoys a lot of people in Sydney (regardless of the sport they follow) is Andrew Demetriou going on all Rev Billy Bob evangelical style over the West Sydney whatevers. I don’t dislike AFL as a game and I admire the way AFL is followed so passionately by its fans especially in Melbourne (I would love NRL to have even half of that bums-on-seats passion), but I sincerely hope that West Sydney Whatevers falls flat on its face and that the AFL focuses on its real fans issues (e.g. a Tassie franchise, growing the Swans core market rather than neglecting it, doctoring a comp to make two new teams competitve at the expense of other 16, making tix available to ‘real’ fans for AFL GF rather than these $1000 corp packages – i.e. we’ll happily take real fans money all year but come the big game you can pretty much forget about getting in). Demetriou’s blind faith on Western Sydney shows that he just doesn’t get Sydney. Steve’s point on cross over seasons is spot on as there is only a small overlap between a-league and nrl/afl/aru seasons. For me as a football fan, it means I can follow two sports that I love year round.
Michael C said | August 28th 2009 @ 10:32am | Report comment
$1000 corp packages help keep our clubs alive – - had the State Govt come on board 30 years ago, we’d be playing GFs at a 160,000 capacity Waverley!!!
In about everything the AFL has put forward on this topic it’s been focussed on real long term and more the consideration of results of NOT doing it.
You’re right about Tassie – - the AFL can’t afford Tassie to be the next Canberra.
Luke W said | August 28th 2009 @ 10:19am | Report comment
Sorry, don’t buy it. I’d love to sit in around a big campfire with all types of football fans and sing Kumbaya, but the fact is that despite our love of sport, Australia is a relatively small country. Certainly a small country with regards to four competing football codes. No time in our history have four football codes successfully competed together, so what’s changed now? I agree that none of the codes will “die” in the next 20 years, leaving one dominant football code, but I feel that Australia is too small to have four successful football codes, so for one to grow, some others have to shrink.
Sean Fagan said | August 28th 2009 @ 10:50am | Report comment
Sydney has had 4 football codes successfully competing since 1908. Sure RL has been dominant, but the SCG has hosted many RU & soccer internationals from the 1920s onwards with crowds >40K, as well as VFL club games (usually at least 1 each year) of similar sized attendances long before the Swans. All four codes have been played at the junior & school level throughout that time as well, with soccer having more juniors than the others since the 1930s.
I agree with Steve’s conclusions. This “code war” may exist, but only in the sense that it always has (in NSW & Qld at least) and always will. The potential expansion of “the war” is for the rugby codes in the new frontiers of the AFL-states, but any gains there are not going to ultimately resolve any perceived “code war”.
In fact, it is 100 years ago today that 14 current Wallabies joined RL on the one day. And, yet even that severe blow, was not fatal to RU, the popularity of the Wallabies, and did not reduce the codes from 4 to 3.
[More: http://www.RL1908.com/blog/wallabies.htm ]
Michael C said | August 28th 2009 @ 11:13am | Report comment
However, certain ‘constants’ that supported the status quo demarcation that existed – included particular schools being almost exclusively Union schools, or League etc etc.
Australian Football locally was restricted to certain enclaves and games were fly in/fly out (or up on the “Southern Auruara” or “Spirit of Progress” from Spencer St into Central Station).
Looking form outside, if feels like some of those constants have taken a bit of a hammering. Sydney is a very perculiar city in the whole world perspective with respect to the ‘competitive’ nature of it’s football landscape. I just wonder how well Union for example can continue to re-invent itself in the Australian context should it lose it’s key foundation plank of the private schools in Sydney and Brisbane?? (is that a real danger or not??)
Sean Fagan said | August 28th 2009 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
RU in Aust is 4 (soon to be 5) professional clubs over not even a full season – so what does RU need – 125 players all up? I don’t see any lack of teenage males wanting to make a career out of being a professional footballer. Opportunity will do the rest.
oikee said | August 28th 2009 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
Good point, the international game keeps union healthy. Union wont ever die. Might be sick, but wont die. Mind you, they are not doing themselves any favours with the blood-gate incident. Nobody likes poor sportsmanship.
mitzter said | August 28th 2009 @ 11:26am | Report comment
ooo Sean Fagan on this website good to see haven’t seen you here before. Love your stuff!
Pippinu said | August 28th 2009 @ 11:38am | Report comment
Sean does make the occasional appearance on the Roar – which is always good to see.
Pippinu said | August 28th 2009 @ 10:58am | Report comment
Luke
In one sense, what you’ve said makes intuitive sense, but Steve does touch on some scenarios where that’s not necessarily the case.
It is certianly true that as the sporting pie gets bigger (and the pie has plenty of growth left in it), the four codes will get uneven chunks of that growth – that is certainly true.
So in reality, you get all four codes growing, but in effect, one or two will get a smaller share of the overall pie (although we’re talking tiny amounts in percentage terms).
For arguments sake, let’s say the total sports pie grows by 8% in the next few years (as it will at a minimum, no problems there), each of the four codes will not get an equal share of that growth, nor will they get a share of that growth that reflects their current share, most likely, one or two will get a smaller share than the others, with the effect that in total terms, you get a tiny percentage shift downwards for one or two codes.
However, another thing that people don’t factor in is the chunks of market share that are grabbed out of other sports. The four footy codes might only make up 50% of the total sporting and leisure market, maybe less.
So anytime someone stops playing korfball in favour of soccer, that’s growth in soccer that has not affected the other codes one bit.
Luke W said | August 28th 2009 @ 11:41am | Report comment
Will the sporting pie grow 8% in the next few years? Other than a major event like the Olympics or World Cup, I don’t see why the sporting pie would grow 8%? I would assume the two biggest factors affecting the sporting pie would be population growth in sporting areas and economic growth. So pretty much more people to attend events with more disposable income to do it. But neither of those figures are anywhere near 8%.
Luke W said | August 28th 2009 @ 11:46am | Report comment
But I agree, there are points for and against. Also, I know this is a big generalisation, but it can even be argued that the growth of the A-League, NRL and AFL has impacted of rugby union (although I think there are other factors, such as the standard of play).
Pippinu said | August 28th 2009 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
Luke W
That’s 8% over a three year period – which translates to roughly 2.5% growth per annum compounded.
If the economy overall grows by that amount, you can be assured that the sports and leisure market will grow by an equivalent amount, absolutely no problems at all.
Why? Because each successive growth in a market economy directs more money to the tertiary sector, and that includes all form of entertainment, which includes sports and leisure.
If there is one thing we can be sure of in Australia, is that sports and leisure will grab its fair share of growth plus some.
Furthermore, the strategic plans of all the codes is pretty much about tapping into this growth in the economy – if the economy is strong – the professional leagues are strong.
Take the AFL side in West Sydney – the AFL might be able to develop a club out there with decent support without the NRL losing one single supporter.
Why? Because it’s a massive population, all of whom aren’t attending NRL games – we know that – there are people attending no games of any description – so naturally the AFL will be wanting to attract some of these people.
This effectively grows the sports and leisure market, and yes, it might grow the AFL’s overall share, but if that happens, we’re talking about tiny percentages.
To use Fos’ very good adjective: “imperceptible”.
Michael C said | August 28th 2009 @ 10:19am | Report comment
Part 2-
general demography variation. Population growth via migration – - with any new wave of migrants, various sporting codes may or may not be at a natural advantage – and the existing codes need to re-invent themselves (or not) to take advantage of or simply to access that migrant community.
Pacific Islanders are an example – - large numbers of BIG kids in junior Rugby is in some respects an advantage, for example, in suburban Melbourne, there’s rugby teams were previously there were none. Made up in the main with kids from this background. So, a ‘natural advantage’ helps create something where previously there was effectively nothing.
However, in RL heartland in suburban Sydney, there’ve been many articles and stories relating to the problems of BIG PI kids in age groups, and forcing a ‘re-invention’ into weight divisions to avoid losing kids to other football codes.
Let alone, normal aging suburbs, new growth suburbs etc. Within existing cities/states that are ‘heartland’ – the constant change means that there’s constant work to be done. Let alone, any code protecting any form of national spread. The AFL as an example did NOT protect/support it’s old ‘VFL’ days presence in Canberra. They’ve lost ground. They know they can’t afford to just let Sydney and Brisbane just ‘exist’, they need to act to support, protect, sustain and grow in both real and relative terms. Not growing is to go backwards.
In the codes flocking to the Gold Coast on the back of the population growth (some natural, some via relocation – thus, codes seeking to ensure they retain a ‘contact’ with existing ‘customers’) – the interesting thing is that they are attempting to insert ‘LOCALISM’ into that market.
i.e. a local team. It’s not good enough for the Gold Coast to be a bunch of kids wearing Collingwood, Manly, SFC and Man Utd tops – - they are provided a local shirt/jumper to buy, wear and support. This very much goes in the face of a the ‘globalisation’ advocates. This to me, is the interesting thing. Perhaps for every globalisation ‘action’, there’s an equal and opposite ‘localisation’ reaction.
TomF said | August 28th 2009 @ 4:57pm | Report comment
Michael,
I can assure you that noe of those Gold Coast Kids will be wearing a SFC jersy (unless they’re blow-in’s on holidays!)- the loss of support for the Roar at the start of this season may be a telling factor where their allegiences were in terms of football. More broadly, the Demography angle is everything in the GC. 25 years ago, it had a population of around 128,000 people (a bit smaller than Cairns today). At present the population is around the 500,000 mark and Gold Coast has overtaken Newcastle. By 2031, it is expected to be around 740,000 (equivalent to the size of Brisbane 20 years ago). There is plenty of room for everyone, but football particularly has a strong presence at club level (look at the strength of clubs like Palm Beach etc). Much as I already hate GCU, that club will be a powerhouse in years to come, much stronger than the lilkes of CCM or the Jets. Townsville is around 160,000 people at present, however it is also growing strongly, with Cairns not far behind- a future FNQ franchise anyone (say 10-15 years)? Demographically, after Canberra and Wollongong, the next biggest urban area in Australia is Sunshine Coast (already bigger than Geelong & Hobart) and closing in rapidly on the other two. It has no professional clubs from any codes presently, and by 2031 will have a larger permanent population than the Gold Coast has today… the cleverest code will get there first and establish themselves, as SC is ripe for the picking and as the Mariners show, already has a sufficient population base to support a football franchise.
Alan Nicolea said | August 28th 2009 @ 10:26am | Report comment
Steve
Well done buddy. That’s all there is to it. Great piece.
Koala Bear said | August 28th 2009 @ 10:48am | Report comment
Steve,
Interesting article, however, you have totally misconstrued Fozzie’s points… Adrian’s article said it in one sentence “The code war exists, but it won’t be a battle to the death” This is how I had interpreted Fozzie’s piece and I think also Fozzie himself would agree… He would see a Football landscape here in Australia in 20 years, simular to what is happening in Northern Europe in far as a pecking order goes…
I believe he is on the money with what he has written… It’s the pecking order not the total demise of the other Football Codes; you would be foolish to think that; if you are suggesting Fozzie see the new order that way… I have loved football all my life and now as a senior citizen now living on the Gold Coast have seen the enormous inroads Football has made in catching up with the eggball shape codes in Australia…
Nothing short of an amazing climb in a short space of time (6 years) when before we were, Sheilas, Wogs and Poofters, as the Late Johnny Warren wrote in his first auto biography with his experiences as a kid and I can vouch first hand of, these, his, views with the derogatory crap we had to put up with when we as kids playing for the same Junior Soccer Club in the Canterbury-Marrickville district “The Earlwood Wanders Soccer club” some 50 yrs ago.. Yes we were Sheilas, Wogs and Poofters, then we became “Soccer Players”, now we are “Footballers”; yes indeed we now can see the whites of your eyes as Fozzie puts it and as he said in 20 years the Football landscape will change dramatically in Australia..
Don’t get me wrong I have a soft spot for the Rugbies, but you are reading more into Fozzie’s article than he wrote as some AFL pundits have done with a total hysterical response by an AFL poster with his own paranoia on Fozzie’s views when his own Melburnian scribes had wrote of Timmy Cahill’s 2 goals against Japan in the last 2006 world cup against Japan were 2 daggers in the heart of AFL.. Then as recently early on this year we had the President of the Hawthorn AFL Club say on national ABC TV on the Barry Cassidy’s Offsider’s show that the AFL push into West Sydney represents a dagger into the heart of Rugby League… Golly gee, I would have thought Fozzie’s article was very tame up against those sorts of comments…
~~~~~~~~
KB
Koala Bear said | August 28th 2009 @ 10:53am | Report comment
sorry for the double post … a glitch in my computer
oikee said | August 28th 2009 @ 11:55am | Report comment
Yes , i have given up on code wars now, a club reaching large numbers of fans all depends on where they sit on the table, Parramatta is a good example of this, crowds of about 12 thousand during the year, now inflated to around 20 thousand.
I will make one point i have stressed all year as noted below, i have mentioned that creating more teams puts untold presure on your bottom line. I have been saying that AFL will be bogged down for at least 20 years trying to push into the other states.
This is why Gallop is reluctant to take the Gamble without having full backing for such a expansion. I have also mentioned that T/V deals for the NRL were undersold, something the NRL will get right next T/V deal.
Like i say, we are not at war with anyone, but if the NRL have a 200 million war chest next t/v deal, watch out. We have seen the damage rugby union have done with their war chest and looks like the AFL are following suit, 2 new teams to deal with and as mentioned, Melbourne teams struggling. Soccer might end up being the winner, they haven’t got a war chest yet.
I came across this article on super footy today.
AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou has privately acknowledged the league’s projected $1 billion price for the next TV rights deal is unattainable. As negotiations warm up, rival networks are increasingly confident they will be able to cover any bid Nine puts up for a slice of the AFL rights.
While Demetriou and AFL chief operating officer Gillon McLachlan have publicly pushed the $1 billion figure, the financial climate means such a deal is unlikely.
Demetriou is well aware of the financial picture of the networks, and their inability to offer a sum that might significantly increase the current $780 million deal.
The capacity to win a billion-dollar deal would have seen the AFL able to effortlessly underwrite the two expansion sides as well as continue to prop up ailing Melbourne clubs.
The league will have the inducement of a ninth game through its two extra teams, but it does not necessarily mean that a massive increase in rights money will follow.
The free-to-air networks will have little interest in showing games involving western Sydney and the Gold Coast, both of which will take several years to be competitive.
The AFL’s one ace in the hole is a new TV timeslot that would allow Foxtel an exclusive timeslot similar to its Sunday twilight game.
Foxtel is in a strong financial position and could fund any potential growth in TV rights, which secured the AFL $780 million between 2002-6.
It would be prepared to pay good money for Monday night football, just as it does for exclusive Monday and Saturday football in the NRL competition.
While Nine has declared it is keen to again broadcast AFL, its hopes might rest with trying to attain one specific timeslot such as Friday night football.
It has this year committed to a $500 million content deal on its main and digital channels and, with Foxtel, paid over $100 million for the 2010 and 2012 Olympic Games.
But the AFL is unlikely to cut up each of its nine games and sell them as individual timeslots to maximise its TV rights booty.
The most likely result from early negotiations would be networks Ten and Seven keeping similar timeslots and paying marginally more, with Foxtel given a Monday or Thursday slot and contributing significantly more money.
The AFL needs Nine to be a player in the rights negotiations, just as it was when Kerry Packer’s massive deal forced rival networks to eclipse it under their last-rights option.
As much as supporters are desperate for more live Friday night football, it remains to be seen if the league will force Seven’s hand if it keeps that game.
Industry sources say Seven’s decision to broadcast Better Homes and Gardens on Fridays before the football makes the network upwards of $20 million a year through its nation-wide advertising platform.
Showing football live in Melbourne and Adelaide would reduce its Friday night revenue greatly, without providing a ratings boost.
Luke W said | August 28th 2009 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
I don’t understand how the NRL TV rights deal works? The NRL is 50% owned by News Ltd., who will be bidding on the rights with one of their other subsidiaries, Fox Sports? Is this one of the reasons the previous NRL deal was undervalued?
Redb said | August 28th 2009 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
If you’ve given up on code wars, Osama Bin laden as given up on ammonium nitrate.
Ohh I dont care about code wars, but here’s this article about AFL….blah blah… Yeah right
Redb
Allen said | August 28th 2009 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
Funny how bearly two years ago Mike Fitzpatrick and the AFL spin machine sold the public the two new AFL teams on the premise that they ‘would be the carrot to get TV rights above $1bn and secure the future of the game’.
Now that the AFL has established their new teams to a point of no return, they finally come out and admit what many of us have been thinking all along – these teams will add no extra value to the rights while undermining the AFLs ability to support its existing clubs.
Pippinu said | August 28th 2009 @ 12:34pm | Report comment
I think the AFL will have to settle for only 15% growth in the value of the next TV rights, which would come to roughly $900 million.
It’s a bitter pill to swallow.
oikee said | August 28th 2009 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
I agree, but i have to say they are doing the right thing. If it takes 20 years for people to accept these teams they would have done well, The reason Qld and NSW league works so well is normally both states have at least 1 team competing in the finals, so you will always have a interest. This is why NRL needs another team NZ. Its a absolute must next expansion.
Pippinu said | August 28th 2009 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
Second NZ team is an obvious choice for NRL expansion – plus it just increases the overall talent pool.
JF said | August 28th 2009 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
More queensland teams before NZ, you have RL mad fans in Central Queensland, Ipswich, Sunshine Coast, without teams to support. The NRL should be building an East Coast fortress, more teams, maybe a 2nd division comp, before further expansion.
Redb said | August 28th 2009 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
Allen,
Take a look around since that time the entire worlds financial system nearly collapsed. Australia in isolation has been buffeted, but our banks (more importanlty 2nd tier) are not in such good shape and the 2 of the 3 TV stations are in trouble. The world has changed. Banks just arent throwing money around anymore.
$780M was already big enough to fund expansion. The AFL would do well to hold to that number. There is has already been an offer of $820M, which was rejected, we are talking somewhere between $1B and $820M.
Why would anyone think the same flow down effect of the GFC will only affect the AFLTV rights, the NRL, soccer, cricket and rugby will all have the same problem.
The pie has shrunk.
Redb
Allen said | August 28th 2009 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
My point was that it was a joke all along to think that the networks would be falling over themselves to throw extra millions at the AFL to show Gold Coast and Western Sydney games in prime time. If anything the networks will be burdened if they have to show more low rating AFL games in the southern QLD and NSW markets every friday or saturday night.
Redb said | August 28th 2009 @ 3:26pm | Report comment
Well actually the ratings in Sydney/Brisbane dont make up the larger proportion of dollars the AFl gets.
The extra moulah was because of 9 games, the potential of MNF, more live games into Melbourne,etc.
No-one would expect either the GC or WS to be ratings successes immediately.
I don’t think Gold Coast will be as a much of a burden as WS in any case. GC17 have put together sponsors, new ground to be built by Fed and State Govt, some momentum on the GC with expat Aussie Rules fans, even K Hunt will help with a bit of hype.
WS still very early days, but looks like Melb Storm.
Redb
p.s. ratings for Sydney/Brisbane are Ok for a niche sport.
http://www.talkingfooty.com/tv_ratings_2009.php
Michael C said | August 28th 2009 @ 3:53pm | Report comment
Oooh, that’s a ripper link Redb,
it’s quite amazing when you aggregate the AFL figures over a weekend (given that the FTA chop up of games across the days and markets can be all over the shop – - and so often directly into Perth, Ade, Syd and or Bris against live Foxtel).
There’s some pretty good numbers there.
btw – does the ratings cater for a 2nd or 3rd TV in peoples homes? or just the primary tele?
oikee said | August 28th 2009 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
I have given up on code wars, i am now into war chests. Seems like if you have one you can say as you like and do as you like. The International rugby league had a 5 million war chest, and they have now created 5 new league countries. ?
War chests=good, code wars=bad.
oikee said | August 28th 2009 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
The super league war luke created a large dept, so news had to get that back, along with proping up Melbourne. When news pulls out wont mean league will receive more money, just means that news are satisfied they have got all , and more, money paid back to them. I have heard mention they are pulling out 2015- 2018.
Luke W said | August 28th 2009 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
Yeah, I understand why News Ltd. is involved in the NRL after the SuperLeague drama and such, but do you think that it has an impact on the NRL’s TV deal? I’m not sure how a global corporation like News Corp works, but you would think there would be some mutual benefits going on between subsidiaries, especially given how closely they interact. So to make sense of what I am saying, do you think News Ltd being involved in the NRL affects their TV deals?
AndyRoo said | August 28th 2009 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
But do we just trust them to get out, if there making money even if it’s not money in the bank but getting a big discount on the NRL TV rights why would they walk away? They are a private business which I presume is motivated by profit.
It’s for the good of the game they move out but I don’t think we can just trust them, rugby league people have to be vocal and make sure that it happens.
Pippinu said | August 28th 2009 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
I’m wondering where korfball fits into all this?
AndyRoo said | August 28th 2009 @ 1:13pm | Report comment
Korfball is in big trouble. There strategy aimed at the top of the pyramid only brought them short term success and by neglecting the grass roots they are playing catch up.
Redb said | August 28th 2009 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
Steve is saying we’re not code warriors but code worriers.
AndyRoo said | August 28th 2009 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
The competition between codes is a good thing because it forces them all to improve.
It means codes can’t get fat and lazy and are instead striving to improve especially since the number one code on a professional level AFL is targeting kids and families. This is good for sport, aus kick, memberships, installing facilities and making sure there is a live game on FTA everywhere are great strategies.
Imagine if there was only one code, you’re a young Football player and your rego fee rises each year, the facilites aren’t getting any better and Tony Labozetta is the most powerful sports administrator in the country.
Thanks to competition there is going to be downward pressure on registration fees for youth players which will motivate more and more families to get their kids involved in some form of sport. You see it right across the nation because of this competition the codes continue to improve their products and services. It stops ticket prices going up by a lot and it means talented kids in Western Sydney often from struggling families get offered more money.
This continual improvement of the codes is how Australia has a chance to keep up our great participation rates in amateur and youth sport despite serious challenges from changing demographics (hard for single parents to get all the kids to the game and all the training sessions) and other less healthy entertainment products.
Mr said | August 28th 2009 @ 5:06pm | Report comment
No one has mentioned the tapping out of finite resources in relations to fields on which winter/summer sports can be played.
If federal & state governments are serious about health & obesity – this is a necessity.
Dogs Of War said | August 28th 2009 @ 5:20pm | Report comment
There still is a finite resourcing issue. Though I suppose more AFL running north-south, League/Union/Soccer running East-West type grounds will pop up. Have seen a few around Sydney, though I will admit I have yet to see AFL played on them. I know AFL has been putting a big push on to get control of grounds through councils, to probably assert the illusion that AFL is a popular sport in the area. I think they forgot that people only believe it if they actually see people playing the sport on the field.
Pippinu said | August 28th 2009 @ 5:25pm | Report comment
In the Southern states, Australian Football is played on cricket ovals.
Do they have cricket ovals in Sydney – I thought they did – that’s probably where the Sydney Football League has been playing its games for 100 years.
The East Sydney Football Club was actually founded in 1880.
Sydney people need to learn a bit more about their sporting heritage.
Dogs Of War said | August 28th 2009 @ 5:29pm | Report comment
That’s the sort of setup I am talking about. Plenty of cricket ovals are used for both Rugby’s.
As for learning about our “Sporting Heritage”, it says a lot that AFL got in first, and yet the following is still poor to this day. Maybe people prefer a different product. AFL is not for everyone.
Pippinu said | August 28th 2009 @ 5:36pm | Report comment
Australian Football may not be for everyone, but it’s certainly there for all Australians.
Dogs Of War said | August 28th 2009 @ 5:40pm | Report comment
Yeah, but thats not what you implied in your previous post.
Pippinu said | August 28th 2009 @ 5:42pm | Report comment
The fact that you haven’t seen any Australian Football played at the local level means you haven’t been around enough – I’ve seen stacks of local footy played in Sydney.
Dogs Of War said | August 28th 2009 @ 5:52pm | Report comment
I said I haven’t seen the mixed use grounds used for AFl. You would have read enough of my posts to know that I actually lived on the same street as the West Sydney Aussie Rules club. So I have seen plenty of games locally. The only grounds that I see get used are AFL dedicated grounds, and from reports, AFL grounds are popping up all around Blacktown, but the thing is that no one really plays it out that way. Maybe they are getting in early for the demand they believe will appear when GWS moves in.
Robbos said | August 28th 2009 @ 6:21pm | Report comment
Same as every other sport is there for all Australians, so what is your point?
Pippinu said | August 28th 2009 @ 7:13pm | Report comment
DOW
yes, you’re right, sorry.
Robbos
we’re rapidly reaching a point where all Australians will be able to have a taste of the Australian game – which is appropriate.
Soccer has been fully available to everyone since forever.
Someone posted somewhere that soccer has had the highest participation rates in NSW since the 1930s.
People sometimes act as if the game arrived on our shores only a few years ago.
It’s been here since forever.
megatron said | August 28th 2009 @ 1:21pm | Report comment
I disagree with this piece. On point 2 – the A-League has a larger crossover with AFL and NRL. You also assume people have all the income in the world to attend all these sports. Reality is people are struggling and even though you point out 90% are employed, doesn’t mean they can all burn cash at sporting events all weekend.
Point 4 is the only accurate one. On point 6 as another coloumnist wrote, Gold Coasts population is not even gonna hit the quarter of a milllion mark in twenty years.
Michael C said | August 28th 2009 @ 2:35pm | Report comment
ah yep, you reminded me,
90% may still be employed, but, lot’s got put onto 4 day weeks, or have no O/T etc etc.
Those still on 100% time/pay and with reduce interest rates are half okay though.
TomF said | August 28th 2009 @ 5:05pm | Report comment
Also need to understand that a lot of A-league supporters were an untapped market. I and many of my friends who attend Roar matches never, ever went to watch the Donkeys. As more of the “Euro Snobs” convert over time and more importantly the kids starting out with SSG’s grow up and are able to attend matches on their own (as there is a league that is something to aspire to rather than the complete pus that was the NSL in the early 80’s when I played junior!) the A-league has far more potential to grow than the other codes.
Michael C said | August 28th 2009 @ 5:20pm | Report comment
No argument – - smaller base.
HAL is yet to reach the number of teams of geographic spread that the NSL provided.
The critical mass of attendees…..given the number of teams in the old NSL and all the various club supporter groups….at this point, the HAL is cute……..but, you’re damn right, it should have growth left in it!!
TomF said | August 28th 2009 @ 5:07pm | Report comment
Megatron,
your point is totally inaccurate in respect of the Gold Coast’s population- which is already around a half a million today (bigger than Newcastle) and likely to be three-quarters of a million in 20 years. Get with the times!
mushi said | August 28th 2009 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
Seems like there are two ends to this that get reported. Code “war” is fiction and doesn’t exist. Code war will result in the death of x number of codes within y years.
Neither are correct but you don’t generate the 50+ comments that the roar/news source of choice wants if you present something balanced and in the middle so you never get a more moderated view.
It is a competitive environment with a finite number of viewing hours and dollars from the generally public, for all sports to gain a share of those hours and dollars at the same time they need to take it from other sources of entertainment. In all likelihood though one is probably gaining at the expense of the others.
If TV channel X is going to pay more for the TV rights of a code it either needs magically more people to have sprung up from the mystical fairy garden or the existing population to have chosen to watch the code over doing something else, there is a high likelihood that the something else was watching another sport.
A TV channel isn’t going to pay everyone more than the inflation in the value of the TV audience which means for someone to win (get more money) others must lose.
That doesn’t mean though one is going to get eradicated.
Pippinu said | August 28th 2009 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
Mushi
it is possible that some might watch less trout fishing, poker and korfball, and bit more of a football code.
Or that some who don’t have pay TV, will get it, and watch some form of football (the vast majority of people get pay TV to watch on form or other of football – that’s the only reason I got it, I imagine that’s the only reason most of us here on the Roar go it).
Let’s be honest, take the football out, any football – and 99.99% of all TV is CRAP!!!
(although I must admit that I don’t mind Dexter and the Burn Notice – how about that Irish lass!!)
mushi said | August 28th 2009 @ 3:29pm | Report comment
Pip and that’s kind of the point you aren’t JUST competing for market share with other codes (hence you don’t need to wipe them out) but they are your closest competitor so any gain you make is likely to result in a loss for them but not necessarily to the same extent.
Millster said | August 28th 2009 @ 2:22pm | Report comment
I think this article is completely unAustralian… I mean how the hell are we going to waste our respective employers’ time and bandwidths if we all decide to hold hands and sing kumbayah rather than getting aggro at each other on here in work time?
How are we going to continue to make sweeping generalisations about the Australia condition based on a few white lines on some grass and a more or less wonkily shaped ball?
What is the point of even living any more?
Geez thanks Steve…
oikee said | August 28th 2009 @ 2:22pm | Report comment
Mushi, Andyroo, excellent posts, i cant agree anymore than what you have both said…
..I thought the gold coast population was already over half a million, with-in 20 years it should be nearing the 1 million mark. 3 teams to support would mean the coast looks great for young families to grow-up there.
I think you would find that the sunshine coast has closer to 250 thousand.
Beardan said | August 28th 2009 @ 9:55pm | Report comment
Mushi making an excellent post. Why does that statement sound incorrect?
Good article. All codes will survive but you cant deny some will grow bigger than others. Look at AFL in Brisbane 30 years ago to know. Its grown 1000 fold.
DiCanio said | August 28th 2009 @ 10:00pm | Report comment
Author has done well ‘borrowing’ ideas from other articles and comments.
All has been said. Author is late to the party and says nothing that we havent heard before.
3/10
megatron said | August 28th 2009 @ 10:21pm | Report comment
Agreed. As Adrian Musolino said in his piece you can’t deny the code war exists but it won’t be a fight to the death or result in any codes disappearing or huge popularity shifts, rather it’ll be fought for the new markets like west Sydney and Gold Coast
alan said | August 28th 2009 @ 10:24pm | Report comment
What i think is so interesting is that everyone said Rugby League was dying. Well its crowds are up 2% this year while AFL is down nearly 7%. I actually am a AFL follower, it is the game i prefer but i also have a fairness to Rugby League i think news of its death is very very much overstated and it has been very clever in trying to fortify its game in its stronghold. Heres an interesting peice of info. Tonight 25,000 people turned up in Townsville to watch the league match – Cowboys and Bronco’s. That is one person for every 6 people in the city of Townsville. That is incredible. Parramatta and the Bulldogs are doing well in the League that could also be a factor as to why attendances in rugby league are up. I dont like the bickering between the different codes. Aussie rules is OUR game but it is not the NATIONAL game thats for sure. Its support in Sydney is poor. The swans average 29,000 thats not bad but try telling channel ten on a saturday night that they are running 5th in the major free to air networks when the swans play – that its okay.
I often wonder what would happen to the Melbourne storm if channel nine in melbourne gave them a fair go and screen matches sensibly. Melbourne people are sports fanatics and love most sports. League does very well on tv down there when screened at a good time,
AFL is a great game, probably the greatest game but its supporters are kidding themselves if they think League is going to go away and people are going to have a mass conversion to AFL. It aint going to happen. AFL when played well is wonderful, so is League. Stop bickering who is the best and be happy we have such diversity in our footy.
Pippinu said | August 29th 2009 @ 8:35am | Report comment
alan
I can’t think of one single AFL fan that has come on here even remotely suggesting that League fans will be converted to AFL en masse.
In fact, you can cont the AFL fans on the Roar on one hand.
Michael C said | August 31st 2009 @ 3:38pm | Report comment
Pip -
glad your slip of the finger in a single letter ommission from the word ‘count’ left out the ‘u’ and not the other way around on the vowels,
“Mungrel up country punt” anyone?
or from “The Sound of Music”
the classic line from Mother Superior to Maria : “What is it you can’t face?”
Kurt said | August 29th 2009 @ 8:45am | Report comment
Chill out Alan, I think most of the AFL contributors on this site (and like Pips says there are about four of us) are either ambivalent or moderately positive about league – I put myself in the latter camp. Can’t remember anyone of use ever making the claims you suggest. As for the 7% drop in crowds, not sure where that came from, I thought crowds this season were on track for a 1.5-2% decline – which will still be in the top 3 or 4 total annual attendances in the comp’s history.
Pippinu said | August 29th 2009 @ 8:53am | Report comment
Yes – I thought the same – and I think it will still be 7mill+ season – which is nothing to be sneezed at.
Tom F said | August 29th 2009 @ 10:58am | Report comment
You’re right Pip,
it’s absolute numbers thought the turnstiles that count. A downturn in numbers at the AFL still means a healthy gate relative to other codes due to the large membership base. I went to a Lions home game v Carlton and the crowd was easily down 10k from 4 seasons ago when I last had a season ticket. Although the Lions made the mistake thinking that 3 premierships = rusted on to the point of swallowing huge ticket prices indefinitely. As soon as the A-league came along, myself and many others traded in our Lions memberships for Roar memberships @ around half the price (which showed where the football fans went when the NSL crashed). Now the FFA got involved in the Roar and the first thing they did was a massive ticket price hike, even if justified by the underlying financial position but it led to an instant drop in memberships. I don’t recognise many faces in the seats around me now and a fair few more are empty. Mind you, the Brisbane sporting public have also been the ultimate fair-weather fans so I expect the Lions numbers are back up now they’re in finals contention. No doubt if the Roar pull their digits out they will get some bounce in numbers (some intelligent scheduling such as no direct clashes with the local competition finals wouldn’t go astray either!). In summary I think there is leakage in Brisbane between AFL & Football, to a lesser degree with League and Football, but I don’t think the AFL & League are likely to have much movement between the groups. AFL had it’s own base in Brisbane prior to the Gold Coast Bears, having also lived in Sydney I can say that the grassroots is stronger in Qld than NSW (Where it is almost non-existant- most Swans fans I met were expat Qld’ers!) and the Gold Coast has a large expat Victorian population (+ a second generation most of whom wont have converted to league). I think all codes can coexist more easily in SEQ than elsewhere due to the large interstate migration that has occurred over the last 25 years.
Michael C said | August 31st 2009 @ 2:32pm | Report comment
Crowd ended at 6.36 mill for H&A season, 6th time ever past the 6 mill mark, and 3rd best ever.
2007 6.47 mill,
2008 6.51 mill,
2009 6.36 mill.
So, running at 97.74% of last year, and 98.27% of 2007.
Nothing to be sneezed at – for sure.
Best round 22 crowd over those 3 years too.
The man said | August 30th 2009 @ 11:36am | Report comment
Steve,
Champange Roar-ing.
A war is definitely needed on Masterchef and its sole crushing stable mates. The perfect weapon in this is war is the return of mid week footy. This has been long overdue. You cannot tell me dad would give up the remote if his team was playing. Who knows this may even encourage him to get home early and take the family to the game.
Would like to acknowledge the contribution of the great Sean Fagan. Long may your quest to save and retell RL history be successful. A permanent home for a RL “Hall of Fame” is long overdue – surely the NSWRL could do something at Philip St. Celebration of the past is important part of any codes future.
PS I hate the new “reply” format with increasing indents on roar, it becomes impossible to read on mobile. One indent is surely enough!
Sean Fagan said | August 31st 2009 @ 6:34am | Report comment
A RL Hall of Fame, along with other sports projects including $25 million for the Australian National Rugby Academy in Brisbane were retrospectively cut by the Labor gvt in early 2008: http://news.theage.com.au/national/rudd-razor-gang-announces-650m-in-cuts-20080206-1qj6.html
…and I don’t favour the new “reply” format either – impossible to keep track of the debate (the longer ones anyway).
The man said | August 31st 2009 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
That is a disgrace.
Hopefully the ARL & NRL are lobbying hard for the project to be resurected. Particularly given they are now throwing bucket loads of cash on stimulus package – a lazy $10m on such a culturally worthwhile project should be top of the list.
Were there any more details on the proposal – such as location etc? Something similar to what they have in the George Hotel in Huddersfield would be a start.
Sean Fagan said | August 31st 2009 @ 3:26pm | Report comment
I think part of the funding was to sort out the building/location options etc.
Pippinu said | August 31st 2009 @ 2:24pm | Report comment
It’s when a new reply gets sandwiched into the middle of an oldish thread where things really do become impossible to follow.
But I have some sympathy for the Roar editors because otherwise, a reply function does have a lot of merit.
Michael C said | August 31st 2009 @ 3:34pm | Report comment
Perhaps we need a collapse/expand +/- option.
Midfielder said | August 30th 2009 @ 12:42pm | Report comment
Change a few of the names swap WWII … to Australian football codes…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx_Wa-hpbjI
Pippinu said | August 31st 2009 @ 2:25pm | Report comment
Mid
you’re really starting to worry me with your collection.
Kids Football Shirt said | September 6th 2009 @ 3:02am | Report comment
Would like to acknowledge the contribution of the great Sean Fagan. Long may your quest to save and retell RL history be successful. A permanent home for a RL “Hall of Fame” is long overdue – surely the NSWRL could do something at Philip St. Celebration of the past is important part of any codes future.
Sth Auckland First XV said | January 13th 2010 @ 5:44pm | Report comment
Yep much of the hype is generated by News Limited, the back-stabber of all free football codes
Jeff said | February 19th 2010 @ 7:43pm (5 weeks ago) | Report comment
Yep, the people that say “there’s room for all codes” will be proved right. All the code war stuff is written to sell, not to inform. Simple.
And “the greatest game of all” is not used in Steve’s article to give his opinion. It has been the catchphrase for rugby league since the pre-television days of George Lovejoy, who coined the phrase when he used to call Brisbane Rugby League matches for the radio.