By Davidde Corran
September 9th 2009 @ 12:37am
Related coverage
Which football chants are acceptable?
UEFA ban Eduardo for two matches for diving, Chelsea are blockaded by FIFA from making any signings until 2011 after illegally poaching Gael Kakuta, and now Manchester United will “appeal for ideas (from fans) as to how to curb (the vile chant directed at Arsene Wenger during the last round of Premier League action).”
Maybe it’s just me but is football finally getting some kind of moral cleansing?
Right now I’m in Italy, and the contrast between how the game is actively supported at stadiums here compared with England is more then palpable.
Throughout Italian football grounds there’s no shortage of passion but the way it’s channelled and directed often leaves much to be desired. The atmosphere at domestic football games is often bordering on aggressive.
This negative environment has led many to stop attending games. It’s hardly a family atmosphere and has a lot to do with the poor attendances across Serie A.
In stark contrast, the positive and proud support West Bromwich Albion fans gave their team right to the death last season came as a shock to many Italians who saw it.
Of course, many English fans are no saints either and the aforementioned Wenger incident is only the latest example but a significant one.
After being sent to the stands at Old Trafford just over a week ago, the Arsenal manager was ‘greeted’ with chants of “sit down you paedophile.” The chant, reprehensible in it’s own right, is even more offensive considering the exceptionally hostile environment in England towards this horrid crime.
Wenger has been receiving this treatment for 13 years and at most English Premier League grounds, but it’s at Old Trafford where it seems to be filled with the most venom.
If that’s not disgusting enough one fan has even recorded a version of the chant and has been flogging it for sale online.
This incident has had me thinking all week about what is appropriate on the terraces.
The wonderfully talented Guardian columnist Marina Hyde wrote about this last week and made some very good points.
In her column Hyde was clearly disappointed by the lack of action form football authorities and clubs in tackling this specific incident.
“The FA declined to return repeated calls on the matter, presumably having far more important things to do than discuss the vile abuse of a manager over more than a decade” wrote Hyde. Adding, “what were those urgent things?
“Well, I note they squeezed out a press release announcing Rafa Benítez had been charged with improper conduct for comments made after the Spurs game a couple of weeks ago.
“So we can only guess at the sabre-toothed nature of plans to combat this blight, that they are even now not really being arsed to come up with.”
It’s a point dripping with sarcasm but also accurate. So while the authorities remain silent it’s the fans that must take up the cause.
Where do chants cross the line?
Football Federation Australia’s attempts to sanitise A-League grounds are well known but active support still survives. As both the game and the A-League grows in Australia we have a rare opportunity to set the foundations for the sort of atmosphere and environment we want at our stadiums.
I hope for passionate active support that is still jovial and family friendly. These are ideas that are not mutually exclusive.
While chants might only be words, that hardly makes it acceptable to simply hurl abuse.
Surely we should encourage fun and intelligent banter from supporter groups for calling someone a paedophile is neither.
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Luke W said | September 9th 2009 @ 8:33am | Report comment
For me: s@#t is fine, f@#k is ok as long as its not overdone, c#@t never. I am a Jets fan, and the Squadron deserved the media attention for their “Bridgey’s a fat c@#t” chant against Sydney FC last year. Not only is it embarrassing because it’s offensive, but its unimaginitive.
AndyRoo said | September 9th 2009 @ 9:21am | Report comment
All this moral cleansing happens to involve the English. There is no way there the only sinners but there is a clear focus on them from Uefa which I think shows their unpopular with platini.
One of the reasosn I don’t think the 2018 bid is locked up in Englands favor as people make out.
sledgeross said | September 9th 2009 @ 9:34am | Report comment
I was at Leeds v Tranmere a few weeks ago. Michael Ricketts was playing for Tranmere. Rickets was actuallly capped by England once, and his fall from form has been big. You shoudl see him now, he was as big as the Don Revie Stand!
The chant for him was “Rickets for England”! I thought that was clever!
Timmo said | September 9th 2009 @ 9:53am | Report comment
Still waiting for Perth Glory to sing before each game the chorus to Prince’s hit song “Purple Rain”
Also waiting for Gold Coast United to do a hybrid to Spandau Ballet’s hit song “Gold”
It could work!
On the point of chants people can be very clever with what they call a player without having to result to bad language.
FIsher Price said | September 9th 2009 @ 12:09pm | Report comment
Great piece. Thanks for drawing attention to the Old Trafford issue – another in the long line of issues over which Man Utd escapes censure by the FA.
md said | September 9th 2009 @ 2:20pm | Report comment
This strikes me as being just a little precious.
Here’s a list of the things that didn’t happen to Arsene Wenger at Man U when he grandstanded, played up to the crowd and hammed it up in on the Man U presentation platform in an effort to make a spectacle of himself:
- Spat on
- Physically assaulted
- Bombarded with objects
- Had water or beer or food thrown at him (which is very Man U v Arsenal)
- Racially heckled (and he’s French!).
He got called a nasty name. Yes – it’s a vile thing to be called, but in the scheme of football crimes, it rates very low. There are plenty of things that need to be addressed in football before we get to “Stamping out fans calling the manager or players of your opposing team very nasty names”.
Cheers
md
Viscount Crouchback said | September 9th 2009 @ 2:53pm | Report comment
Are you serious? You think being called a paedophile ranks “very low” on that list? I’d suggest that Wenger would much prefer to be punched on the nose than abused so despicably.
Sadly, this is very much a north west of England thing. The lumpen proletariat of Manchester and Liverpool have long competed for the title of England’s mouthiest, vilest, most uncouth people.
md said | September 9th 2009 @ 3:06pm | Report comment
Hmm, you doth protesteth too much. “Rather be punched…” do you really think that Wenger gave it a second thought? It’s a 10 year old chant that even Spurs fans have got bored of. It’s mouthy, vile and uncouth as you note, but bluntly, football isn’t cricket and if abusive chants are the limit of terrace misbehaviour, then frankly I’m fine with that.
Viscount Crouchback said | September 9th 2009 @ 8:27pm | Report comment
Given that Arsenal launched immediate protests to the FA and have even forced Amazon to remove items from its site, I’d suggest that yes, Wenger did give it a second thought.
Equally, both you and Freud seem unaware that Wenger almost walked away from Arsenal back in 1996 when these ridiculous rumours first surfaced. Do neither of you remember his furious press conference at the Highbury gates? It’s a long way from being “water off a duck’s back”.
It’s a pretty sad day when fans are defending such behaviour on the grounds that “football isn’t cricket”. In fact, it’s embarrassing.
Freud of Football said | September 9th 2009 @ 8:39pm | Report comment
VC, Wenger can handle it as he handled it back then, 1996 is 13 years ago, you think since then he hasn’t moved on since then?
I’m not defending their behaviour, merely saying fans are responsible for their own actions and in my opinion, they didn’t cross the line, it was tasteless yes but I don’t think it deserves further punishment.
It’s the same as calling Frank Lampard fat (and don’t say it’s not, more people have self-image problems than problems being called something they clearly know they are not), it’s a ridiculous claim made by the fans to wind someone up, if it works, then they succeed but what would you prefer WC?
No more even possibly slightly offensive chants? No thanks, I love listening to the crowd and I’m sure anyone who has been to an English game would agree it’s definitely a part of the game that belongs in football, otherwise the authorities would have come down harder when they made all of their changes regarding Hooliganism.
Viscount Crouchback said | September 9th 2009 @ 8:49pm | Report comment
You must be in some kind of magnetic field because your moral compass has gone absolutely haywire. I don’t know how you can possibly compare being accused of child molestation to being called fat.
No one is demanding that the crowd stop singing. People are merely asking – and Manchester United is asking – that their fans stop singing this particular song. The idea that we’ll kill all terrace wit if we ask people to stop singing about paeodophilia or people dying at Hillsborough is just moronic, and rather reminds me of those who used to argue that we shouldn’t be too hard on hooligans becaus “they bring passion to the game”.
Freud of Football said | September 9th 2009 @ 8:14pm | Report comment
It’s water off a duck’s back for Wenger. He has been around long enough to know what to expect and he doesn’t let it faze him.
Manager’s in general are older, there aren’t many around that are younger than 37-38 and you’d think by that age they should be able to handle it.
As for the chants directed at the other players, well that’s an entirely different matter.
Anything that involved race should not be tolerated but the line has to be drawn somewhere and to be honest I think the chants at Wenger didn’t cross that line, while they were obviously disgusting you can’t deem everything that might be considered offensive as having gone too far.
Fans need to control themselves, there were supposedly chants of “where’s your daddy?” to Jack Collison playing two days after his father died in a motorcycle accident and while I find that disgusting, if fans want to chant it, then so be it, it makes them look like redneck hicks but if they don’t care, you wouldn’t stop them anyway.
Viscount Crouchback said | September 9th 2009 @ 8:32pm | Report comment
It’s only intolerable if it involves race? What a ridiculously 21st century comment. We can be as vile as we like so long as we’re not racist? Frankly, I’d rather sit next to an old codger with a few un-PC views but who behaved with basic decency than next to some 20-something moron who happily chanted about paeodphilia whilst carefully observing his society’s ever-so-pious maxims on race.
md said | September 10th 2009 @ 11:02am | Report comment
I think this argument is heading towards Crouchback’s long awaited Chris Crocker moment.
LEAVE ARSENE ALONE!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZAr9E8i3ng
Fame can await you too! :0
AndyRoo said | September 10th 2009 @ 8:42am | Report comment
I know there is always the fear Authorities go too far and start banning a lot of chants most of us find acceptable but I would guess most people are against such a chant. It’s humorless and disgusting, I am all for getting rid of it.
My general rule is if your saying something vile it better be really funny and that chant fails.
Viscount Crouchback said | September 10th 2009 @ 10:09am | Report comment
Precisely. Well said.
Cpaaa said | September 10th 2009 @ 10:22am | Report comment
i love the sydney fans for their half hour on que version of “when Sydney goes marching in”
Praise to the Victory, league leaders in chants and voice,
but…when i sit in the stands at roar matches (with my head down in shame, and thinking here it comes again) and the opposing goalie kicks the ball in play to the sound of
“your shit ahhhhhhh”
Lord Jesus Mary Christ, forgive them father for they know not how to sing. its not rude, its just not funny and it dosnt work.
when celtics were here for preseason, they gave Brisbane a lesson in football gospel. a day i will never forget.
wake up orange army ” Your shit oooooo omg”…
md said | September 10th 2009 @ 10:27am | Report comment
This is a cleverer version of the same thing.
“Martin Jol’s having a party bring your vodka and your charlie, Arsene Wenger’s having a party, bring your sweeties and your smarties…”
Is it better, worse or the same?
Really, if you are Constable Bobby at the football charged with chucking out the singers of vile songs, where do you draw the line? Every song that links Spurs to Jews? Songs about player’s mums, wives or kids?
AndyRoo said | September 10th 2009 @ 10:33am | Report comment
I think that’s ok…. does that make me a hypocrite.
At least there trying to be funny which I think takes a lot of the venom out of it.
NUFCMVFC said | September 10th 2009 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
There are limits, for example the monkey chants you often hear in Spain and by the Serbs, I think some Croatian fans also formed a swastika in the stands because they were unhappy about some policy
But generally it has to be remembered that football was initially and spiritually an escape of sorts for the working class masses in particular from overbearing institutions like Factories etc where they are micro managed by elititsts etc, which can include the overbearing institution of political correctness and in some respects the Terraces are freedom from that for a lot of people, which is half the point in the tongue in cheek chanting and banners
The Hyde article is another example of the politically correct media with nothing better to do
Generally, football has moved on obviously and encompasses the Middle Classes more now and has become mainstream, but the Terraces have always been about freedom of expression, in Craoi Fosters precious Barcalona’s case this was an instance of the Barca Terraces being filled with anti Franco songs and Catalan nationalism
Perhpas Italy is slightly imbalanced a bit too much, as the optimum outcome is one where there is a good committed hardcore who attend each week and some casual family types, which to me seems to be what they have in Germany
In Englands case, the active fans have been persecuted through All Seater Stadia agenda designed to drive the working classes out, or to the lower tiers
But the sentiment of this article is the type of crap you often see to justify pedantic over the top stereotype driven policies, in the Australian context it gets stupid to the point where fans who boo their fiercest rivals Captain for 2 seconds in the highest stakes Grand Final get berated by Ben Buckley, then have a person from the AFL who has only been involved in football for 2 years at that stage trying to tell life long committed fans about the spirit of football, not to mention a few other things
And for what, some hysterical fear that you are “driving the families” away, this reminds me of the crap F-Troop had to put up with after NQ’s first game, if family types don’t like the Terraces just sit away from them. Another thing is that there are also many family types in the Terraces themselves, mostly because the parents grew up through them and understand there is no real risk in them, just need a bit of common sense and stand towards the side slightly
And for what, because of some hysterical fear
Ironically people go on abut the “threat” the active fans pose, but football would be boring to watch live if it was a sterile experience, better and cheaper to watch at home
There is perfect legitimacy in wanting to be able to go to football and enjoy the “entertainment experience” without having the confines of political correctness
Within limits of course, eg no serious racism or serious homophobia
Killer_Tomatoes said | September 10th 2009 @ 2:14pm | Report comment
Any chant should be acceptable, words are words, even as an Arsenal fan I can see the funny side of the Wenger chants, and he clearly is not as worked up about it as the press or he would’ve complained, even once, in those 13 years you speak of. People in football need to have thick skin, Wenger epitomises this. The people who want to ban offensive chanting are the same PC brigde, Nanny State beuracrats who made saying black (totally inoffensive and what Afro-American’s call themselves) illegal so that newsreporters in the US must no say African-American. It’s bullshit to be honest, while all round the real society, words are being labelled wrong and horrible and offensive and responsible adults are having themselves publicly censored, Television shows become more and more filthy because that is where the money is.
The fact that upwards of 10 Tottenham fans could be banned for singing a song towards Sol Campbell that was simply misunderstood as being both racist and homophobic, simply because he is black, when the chant had been sung numerous times previously by other clubs to other players (including Melbourne Victory to Chrisitan Sarkies) without incident is ridiculous. I’m sick of all this political correctness that is pissing on free-speech in Western society. If people don’t want to hear the Squadron call Mark Bridge a c@#t, then don’t sit near them, god knows there is enough empty seats at Energy Australia stadium.
melbvictory87 said | September 10th 2009 @ 3:24pm | Report comment
leave the chants alone, its a way of expression and fun. last week we had a ljubo milicevic chant on how he takes it up the a#%. its part of the game and adds to atmosphere. football is seen as a release and the chanting is what makes the game so special. even in the dullest of games the chants are the entertainment. racist chants are not acceptable and what eto’o had to deal with was an absolute disgrace, but wenger is a pedophile can we viewed as disgusting i just think its humour and i take it with a grain of salt.
it worst when clubs try to subdue the chants ie. mvfc when they started telling the fans where we can sit and what flags to bring. it kills the games unique atmosphere.
im all up for atmosphere and wish we did more to ramp it up, leave chanting alone
True Tah said | September 10th 2009 @ 3:38pm | Report comment
so homophobic chants are a part of the game?
No wonder in the world history of the futbol, there have been two gay men who played at the highest levels, one of whom was abused by his manager, and neither of whom came out whilst they were playing. Thats the same number as the NFL, which is supposebly an insular code.
melbvictory87 said | September 10th 2009 @ 3:26pm | Report comment
in fact the day that clubs start telling us what we can and cannot sing is the day i resign my interest in the HAL. homophobia and racism should not be raised but aside from that, supporters are allowed to add their creativity and songs to stimulate passion and atmosphere
Cpaaa said | September 10th 2009 @ 6:42pm | Report comment
“ooh danny…tiatto
your the love of my life
oh danny tiatto
ill let you shag my wife
oh danny tiatto
i wish i was a sik cu#t toooo”
repeat
love it.
just on whats acceptable, spare a thought for poor ol becks and Posh.
search engine “posh spice is a slapper”
here is just one of about a million
Posh Spice is a slapper,
She take’s it up the Arsenal,
And when she’s shagging Beckham,
She thinks of Ian Marshall!
oooh ian ian ian marshall ….blah blah blah
and that one is pretty tame. even the green and gold army cant help having a go at Posh. but in my view it sounds brilliant. few beers, few poems, few laughs. and its not only football fans up to creative mischief. heres a link of the barmy army aving a go at brett lee, and i think he likes it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ2gL7LKJ0s&feature=related
Footbal Person said | December 24th 2009 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
I don’t see the problem with this to be honest, Lots of guys take there sons and daughters to Brisbane games.
I was at our second game against CCM this year a bay across from the orange army, and it has to be said their real potty mouths. But, those mums and dad’s don’t seem to worry too much about the scary words.
And another thing, there will come a time when the term “swear word” will only exsist in the minds of the extremely religous
( no offense meant )