Let’s measure the Wallabies depth and select a second squad

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By LeftArmSpinner, 18 Sep 2009 LeftArmSpinner is a Roar Guru

Tagged:: Rugby Union, RWC 2011, RWC2011, Tri Nations, wallabies

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Australia's Wallabies react after their 19-14 loss to New Zealand's All Blacks during their Bledisloe Cup match in Hong Kong Saturday, Nov. 1, 2008. AP Photo/Kin Cheung

Much has been written about the current Wallabies 22 being the likely core of the RWC squad. But there will be injuries and losses of form. So who is in the Wallabies 2nd XXII?

In days gone by, the second grade team trained with first grade and then played in the preceding game to first grade. It was easy for selectors, spectators and players to see who was in form and who wasn’t.

As this no longer the case for the Wallabies, it is more difficult to assess just what depth exists at any point in time.

I have selected a notional Wallabies Second XXII, with the only criteria being that the current Wallabies 22 and injured players are not available for selection.

Such a team deserves a panel of selectors and so I welcome your comments and suggestions as to players you would choose in your Wallabies Second XXII:

1. Cowan (covers 1, 2 and 3)
2. Fitzpatrick (good throw and great around field)
3. Kepu (Emerging star)
4. Thomson (Very Tall)
5. Hockings(Assumed Caldwell injured)
6. Dennis (Great for Syd Uni)
7. Hodgson/Waugh (Current Wallabies Squad)
8. Brown/Hoiles (Mobile 8s)
9. Phibbs (tough, 80 minute player and who else is there?)
10. Toomua (young, very good and cool under pressure)
11. Fainifo (quick)
12. T Smith (Straight and direct runner and tough)
13. Horne (great footwork and tackler)
14. Shepherd (Quick)
15. Beale (Quick, deceptive, can also play 10 or 12)
16. Freier
17. Palmer
18. Fairbrother
19. Hand
20. Vanderglas
21. Holmes (covers 9, 11, 12, 14)
22. Cross

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The Crowd Says (137) | Page 1 of Comments

Knives Out said | September 18th 2009 @ 2:42am | Report comment

I was impressed with Mowen and Higgonbotham far more than I was by Hodgson.

You forgot Greg Holmes and Guy Sheperdson.

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- joeb said | September 18th 2009 @ 3:14am | Report comment
  
  KO, Yes thought Mowen had a great year for the Tahs, and am also a fan of Greg Holmes.
  
  LAS, Beale as you know is also a decent 15 (and goal kicker), Cam Shepherd is also a quality 15 or winger and can kick goals, and I’d rather Sheehan than Phibbs at 9. Deans has made the point he needs depth leading up to 2011 so is prepared to take the punt with any quality grade players plying their trade – might discover another Kearns eh? Anyway Saturday’s Bledisloe will give us a better idea of how talented the current Wallas 22 really are, if they can back-up the Brisbane win.
  
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  - Knives Out said | September 18th 2009 @ 4:19am | Report comment
    
    I thought that Mowen’s line out contribution was particularly impressive, joeb, whereas Higginbotham was far more of an energiser around the field.
    
    Reply
  - LeftArmSpinner said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:09am | Report comment
    
    Joeb, does that mean Vinnie Byrne gets a run at 9? only joking but part of the purpsoe of the article is to trigger that discussion. I remember seeing Burgess going around for Easts a few years ago when he was still at the Brumbies, 3 or4th in line, and absolutely murdering ‘em. Beale was a tricky one. He is a gifted player and has something special about him. his apprenticeship was very poorly planned and has set him back, but Deans has seen his potential so that it is good. the question is where to play him? 10, 12 or 15. His 10 play is too league like and for it to succeed, he needs players to run off him rather than jsut run multiple crash balls. at 12, he can bring his running game, chips, foot work and deceptiveness but I would not have him at 12 in defence. 15 gives him more time and space but I just havent seen enough of him at 15. He has to be there somewhere in the 15.
    
    who do you see as the next Kearns?
    
    Reply
    - Roy Kneebone said | September 19th 2009 @ 10:53pm | Report comment
      
      If you were to pick 1 guy from club rugby to be the bolter for wallabies squad spring tour it would be Gordons only Super 14 player, 20 year old Dane Haylet Petty from Western Force.
      
      Reply
- LeftArmSpinner said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:01am | Report comment
  
  I didnt forgret them I just rate Cowan, Kepu and fairbrother and palmer higher. Sadly Mowen is injured but otherwise, would have been my 6 with Dennis dropping to bench and Vanderglas out of 22.
  
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  - Vented Relief said | September 18th 2009 @ 10:30am | Report comment
    
    Definitely agree about Kepu – he is an absolute machine. Would love to see him playing for wallabies again soon – particularly off the bench for some impact play in the final 20.
    
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- LeftArmSpinner said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:02am | Report comment
  
  Knives, Mowen is more a 6 whereas hodgson is a 7. not sure about higginbotham? I hav heard good things tho.
  
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  - Knives Out said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:31pm | Report comment
    
    Yes, but Hodgson can play 6, LAS, and does so for the Western Force.
    
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mcxd said | September 18th 2009 @ 5:35am | Report comment

after a couple of years in the wilderness i thought that Valentine had a good year last year as well as having a good combination with Giteau at the force and certainly a contender for burgess’s place.

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- LeftArmSpinner said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:13am | Report comment
  
  I just think Phibbs is on the way up still whereas Valentine has never really delivered for me. these two and Sheehan are out of the same pod, but Holmes, probably the lesser of the four in half back terms, is arguably our best utility player. 9, 12, 13, 11 and 14. Burgess, in form, has a much better tackling game and attacking game then any of the others. Burgess and Genia are out of the same pod.
  
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Jameswm said | September 18th 2009 @ 8:15am | Report comment

Are we assuming Kimlin is injured?

I was unimpressed with Hand. I wouldn’t have him near our 2nd squad.

Agree Sheehan ahead of Phibbs, who I don’t rate that highly. Sheehan has eradicated or at least reduced the brain snaps.

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- LeftArmSpinner said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:15am | Report comment
  
  Yep, Kimlin is assumed to be injured as is Caldwell. the ranks get quite thin, and I have assumed that Hocking is available. Sheehan hs been quite grumpy on grade this season so the brainsnaps are still there. I love his passion, just not when it overflows.
  
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Vented Relief said | September 18th 2009 @ 8:39am | Report comment

Interesting you include players from Sydney grade but nobody from Brisbane grade. Was that intentional or are you just ignorant of the players in Brisbane grade comp?

Guy Shepherdson without a doubt. Had a great season for the brumbies. Don’t know why he isn’t even being looked at for Wallabies. Not sure about Greg Holmes – he couldn’t even get a consistent start with the Reds.

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- reds fan said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:12am | Report comment
  
  That’s because he has also missed Laurie Weekes. Australian Super Rugby rookie of the year. Had a fantastic season at tighthead. Holmes couldn’t get a start because Ben Daley had a cracking year at loosehead. Both props are true up and comers.
  
  You’ve missed that curly haired winger from the Force… he’s good.
  
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- LeftArmSpinner said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:19am | Report comment
  
  vent, I jsut dont know enough of the brisbane grade scene to be able to include many players. I know and rate Weekes, but Is he a loosie or tight head? Daley is another young prop that is doing well. But I am not a houston fan.
  
  cummings is the winger. I agree he is very good too, but I assumed he was injured as he had not been mentioned. He would fight it out for the 22 jersey with Cross with cross holding on because he can play several positions. Shepherd got the nod on previous play rather than current form.
  
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  - reds fan said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:24am | Report comment
    
    Well then I’d play Shep at 15, and Cummings on the wing.
    
    Beale is an enigma to me… but i think the centres might be the place he finally settles in. or league.
    
    I think he struggles with his weight a bit. He doesnt possess a long pass. And his defence can be suspect. I still want to see more development from him.
    
    Fainifo is a good. He is undeniably fast!
    
    Maybe you should have made the assumption that all players were fit. Caldwell would definitely be in that team.
    
    Reply
  - taylor bridge said | September 18th 2009 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
    
    Digby Ioane and Ben Lucas should be in the first XXII, otherwise the second XXII. there was nothing between Lucas and Genia until Genia got the starting run afetr Ben Lucas was injured. Lucas passes even better than Genia runs off the scrum base better than both and can kick goals and back up at No 10.
    
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Brett McKay said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:09am | Report comment

Sheehan’s been mentioned, but Shaun Valentine would be in front of Phibbs too – in fact the Brumbies only kept Phibbs (after signing Valentine) because Josh Holmes rejoined the Waratahs.

Ben Lucas would have to rate somewhere Leftie? The tall winger for the Force too, with the Sideshow Bob haircut, who’s he??

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- reds fan said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:16am | Report comment
  
  Ha. Brett I’m with you. he’s good. strong and straight running.
  
  Ben Lucas is getting there…. it will be interesting to see what they’ll do with him at the Reds. If Will is starting at 9, Lucas will have to start somewhere because he’ll be the number 1 goal kicker. He plays 10 at club level, and boots everything.
  
  He played ten once last year when Barnes was injured, and went ok. But his play as a fly half doesn’t get mentioned much.
  
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  - Hoy said | September 18th 2009 @ 11:59am | Report comment
    
    It will be interesting with Barnes gone. Do they shift Cooper to 12, and allow Lucas to play 10, the position that got him noticed in the first place? Let’s remember he is not a natural 9, but has been made to play there and learn it. He went well last year, but has struggled with injuries this year.
    
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    - reds fan said | September 18th 2009 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
      
      I’ve got a feeling they might. Depends if they feel that Cooper must play 10. Its a way off but I’m looking forward to next season already… ah the optimism of the fan.
      
      They also have Will Chambers to throw in the mix.
      
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      - Justin said | September 18th 2009 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
        
        What about throwing Lucas to 15? Have a mental blank on who would be there otherwise but he has all the attributes to be a very good 15. Pace, great skill and excellent kicking game…
        
        Suddenly the Reds backs look very very dangerous if all fit.
        
        Reply
        
        reds fan said | September 18th 2009 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
        
        McLinden. he’s fast and a real professional. I was quite happy with his work at the back last year.
        
        Justin said | September 18th 2009 @ 1:26pm | Report comment
        
        Ah yes McLinden. He did have a decent year too. Lucas to the bench I guess. Great to have a player of his calibre being able to play 9, 10 & 15 well. If McLinden or Cooper struggle I wouldnt hesitate to put him in a starting jumper, I think he is a future Wallaby.
        
        reds fan said | September 18th 2009 @ 1:31pm | Report comment
        
        Lucas is usually our first choice goal kicker too. When he went off and Will can on, Barnes or Cooper would kick and the percentage would plummet.
        
        Justin said | September 18th 2009 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
        
        RF – I think the Reds could be challenging in 2011 or 2012. What do you think? They are very young at present but with as much talent as any side about the place. If the young props come on the front 5 is pretty handy. Find a backrower or 2 and the backs will do the rest as long as they are coached well enough.
        
        reds fan said | September 18th 2009 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
        
        I think our biggest issue is the lock, blindside and eight. And also team management over the 80 minutes. Either Cooper or Lucas will need to stand up and take this on. I wouldn’t be surprised if Cooper matured faster without Barnes next to him… he’s a good kid who really wants to succeed.
        
        I’m sure Braid and Tomeki can handle 7 at super level. But 6 has been a nightmare for us. Higginbotham kinda burst on the scene and then faded. he might get more game time this year now that Hugh Mc has gone. At 8 we have Houston or Ezra Taylor. I think Taylor will start in that position, unless Houston has seriosly lost some weight and gotten a better attitude to training, fitness and ball retention.
        
        But we are very thin in these areas.
        
        We also need another lock. A big tall lineout calling lock. James Horwill is more the abrasive type. Van Humphries was utterly lazy last season. Not sure where we are going to get one of these from….
        
        Without solving the forwards issue, any promise the backs have will be hampered by getting the ball going backwards.
        
        Justin said | September 18th 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
        
        I agree with most of what you have said. I think if they can hold onto what they have and find 3 players for lock and the backrow they could be in business.
        
        reds fan said | September 18th 2009 @ 1:55pm | Report comment
        
        It’s part of the reason why I woudln’t be unhappy with Link as the new coach. We need to focus on getting our pack right and it is something he knows plenty about.
  - Spencer said | September 18th 2009 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
    
    Timmy Horan will decide if Cooper goes to 12. I suspect he will, as Tim is now the appointed mentor for Cooper.
    
    Genia, Lucas, Cooper, Ioanne…hmmm…
    
    Reply
    - reds fan said | September 18th 2009 @ 3:13pm | Report comment
      
      plus Chambers, Morahan, McLinden… (not sure where Morgan is going…. except maybe to the pub..)
      
      I’d be worried about the defence in the 10/12 channel. Lucas is tenacious but not big. Cooper is bigger but hasn’t yet shown any real grit in defence. Although I think he is getting better.
      
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- LeftArmSpinner said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:24am | Report comment
  
  Lucas is a favourite of mine, despite his stature. But, for him to get in, it would have to be at 9 because there are toomua, Beale and even lialilifano ahead of him at 10 and Holmes is a must on the bench in because of his utilty value. Lucas at half. Its a possible. My overall preference is for speed at both 9 and 12, but potentially you create a porous defence.
  
  But, I will drop Phibbs from the XXII for Lucas.
  
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Will_J said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:23am | Report comment

Gene Fairbanks, when he can stay injury free, may push for the bench

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- LeftArmSpinner said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:47am | Report comment
  
  Will, Fairbanks is good, but Holmes utility makes a bench spot for an inside back his and his alone. and he would not get past either toomua or beale at 10 or Smith and Holmes at 12.
  
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- Brett McKay said | September 18th 2009 @ 10:19am | Report comment
  
  Will, Leftie, up until yesterday I would have absolutely agreed with you about Gene Fairbanks, but I found out (after noting he wasn’t listed in the Brumbies 2010 squad) that his contract ended this year and wasn’t renewed. I don’t know where, if anywhere, he’s ended up or will end up, and all in all, I think he’s a loss. I think it’s no coincidence that his return to form alligned with th Brumbies late season run in 2009. A mate who I was discussing this with thought he might have heard Japan mentioned, but wasn’t sure either.
  
  I hope he stays in Australia, for Australia’s sake, because I can’t think of another 12 in the country with the same attacking and defensive smarts that what match Berrick Barnes currently. I really hope he’s gone back to Qld, but I suspect he’s taken the Yen.
  
  Is OJ out there anywhere to confirm his presence in Japan??
  
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  - Working Class Rugger said | September 18th 2009 @ 3:33pm | Report comment
    
    I think Fairbanks has crossed the Nullabor to join the Force from memory.
    
    Reply
    - reds fan said | September 18th 2009 @ 3:46pm | Report comment
      
      think thats Bartholemuez that went to the Force.
      
      Reply
LeftArmSpinner said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:26am | Report comment

Guys, share you teams with us.

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Whaler said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:27am | Report comment

LAS ………think you are wrong about Phibbs….would give Valentine a run before Phibbs …..what are Randwick going to do if both of them are fit ???

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- LeftArmSpinner said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:44am | Report comment
  
  they had valentine off the bench to cover 9 and 10.
  
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Robbo said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:35am | Report comment

Here’s my backline: 9. Phibbs 10. Fairbanks 11. Fanifo 12. Tyrone 13. Cross 14. Horne 15. Shepard

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Worlds Biggest said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:38am | Report comment

Yep I agree on Valentine, he is a good player and would be my Wallaby backup at the moment ( sorry Leftie ) while Burgess has a spell in Club Rugby. I think Valentine assuming he starts for the Brumbies will have a big Super 14 season particularly if the team as expected challenges for the title.

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- LeftArmSpinner said | September 18th 2009 @ 9:51am | Report comment
  
  Worlds, Valentine seems to me to be a sullen player who hasnt fulfilled his potential, although, by reports, his 2009 season was good if not his best. Geezzz, Burgess in grade……… Syd Uni hardly need another wallaby to jet in. Give the other clubs a chance, please…………… We will never hear the end of it.
  
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