Back in 1907, Sean Fagan tells us, Australian Football was doing okay business in Sydney and was looking set to ‘swamp’ the amateur rugby union.
Along came rugby league and the “rugby union authorities refused to give the NSWRL access to the SCG or Sports Ground, and Australian rules officials graciously vacated the Agricultural Ground for two weekends, allowing rugby league to kick-off. It was a fatal mistake for Australian rules.”
Interesting then to read Roy Masters’ article in the Monday SMH about the possible playing of the NRL Grand Final outside of Sydney, or NSW for that matter.
He puts the MCG as an option for consideration, but then Stephen Gough from the MCG indicates that the AFL has a standing booking for the week after should there be a drawn Grand Final and subsequent ‘replay’.
Gough stated: “The AFL would have to change the rule for the NRL to have its grand final at the MCG.”
Masters observes: “The chances of the AFL denying itself another $15 million gate, while giving a break to a rival, are zero.”
Students of history would suggest the AFL would be raving lunatics to give another code a ‘break’ like that!
Recommend this story.
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- AFL, NRL, Roy Masters, Rugby Union
September 22nd 2009 @ 2:37pm
oikee said | September 22nd 2009 @ 2:37pm | Report comment
It should never be played at the MCG, never, its souless for rugby league. The players look like ants and unless you use the whole feild you might as well take a book with you. Forget it.
Just be happy they built a rectangle feild. Now we dont have to use their stadium. Looking forward to the 1st game played from their.:)
September 22nd 2009 @ 2:40pm
Pippinu said | September 22nd 2009 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
As AndyRoo said above, the AFL GF is stuck with the MCG for a couple decades yet.
But looking into the future, I would like to one day have a situation where another city can host the grand final if, for instance, a team from that city finished top and qualified, and if there’s a suitable stadium (say, 75,000 plus).
At the moment, that would only leave Sydney, but who knows what’s possible in 25 years.
Otherwise, it has to be said that 99.99% of AFL footballers all look forward to the opportunity of running out on to the MCG on the last Saturday in September.
So if you were to ask the professional footballers, virtually none of them would want a change.
They want to be out there in the same spot where all the legends of the game have been.
They want to be part of that exact same experience – and fair enough.
September 22nd 2009 @ 4:23pm
Redb said | September 22nd 2009 @ 4:23pm | Report comment
Pip,
I also think there is a big difference between how the premier stadiums in Sydney and Melborune respectively are regarded. ANZ stadium is spurned by most so perhaps the NRL are willing to forgo as it lacks the tradition pre NRL days (NSWRL).
Whereas the MCG is revered by all AFL fans, its roots go back 150 years with the VFL/AFL GF played there for a 100+ years. It is clearly the best stadium for AFL and the only stadium capable of holding 100,000 fans.
This is not America with 30 Melb/Sydney size cities.
if the NRL want to prositute their traditions let them.
Redb
September 22nd 2009 @ 4:28pm
AndyRoo said | September 22nd 2009 @ 4:28pm | Report comment
You could also substitute the word sharing for prostituting.
Fair enough that Melb holds its VFL/AFL traditions dear but it doesn’t feel very inclusive.
September 22nd 2009 @ 4:36pm
Redb said | September 22nd 2009 @ 4:36pm | Report comment
your not a AFL fan its obvious why you dont feel included.
Most AFL fans in the heartland areas of Adelaide and Perth love the MCG and few wish to see a change in the GF venue.
I sense tension in the NRL camp with QLD feeling it has more of a right to some of the spoils as Sydney crowds are often poor. However, Suncorp is simply not big enough IMO. By the time the corporates have taken a slice of the pie how many actual fans could attend?
The RL SOO is shared around.
Redb
September 22nd 2009 @ 4:49pm
AndyRoo said | September 22nd 2009 @ 4:49pm | Report comment
I was stirring a little bit, even up here it’s easy enough to know that the G in September is way more ingrained than the Grand Final venue in Sydney (not just becasue the Sydney venue has changed multiple times). All the parades and other kerfuffle that goes on.
It’s similar in some sense to the Tasmanian AFL team bid, a lot of Tasmanian’s don’t even want a team as there happy enough to support the team they support now. Where as say the Central Coast in the NRL would love their own team. Supporting AFL seems to mean buying in to the traditions of the game.
I don’t think stadium size is that important because it wasn’t that long ago that the Grand Final was played at the SFS. Also most fans miss out on grand final day anyway …… there should be a much higher price put on the corporate tickets/packages that tie up so many seats on Grand final day.
I think most Sydney fans want the Grand final to stay in Sydney but I see a Brisbane Grand Final happening soon as realistic. There is a preference for it to stay in Sydney but not a fervor.
September 22nd 2009 @ 5:01pm
The Link said | September 22nd 2009 @ 5:01pm | Report comment
RedB, one the one hand you say ANZ lacks the tradition, but then RL is prostituting tradition? Which one is it?
If NRL grand finals were still at the SCG then i’d be more reluctant, but in current state I think its a good move and a point of difference for RL.
September 22nd 2009 @ 5:03pm
Michael C said | September 22nd 2009 @ 5:03pm | Report comment
very true – the MCG is the ‘Wimbledon’ of AFL, or the ‘Wembley’,….whereas ‘Stadium Australia’ doesn’t really mean that much in the history of the NRL.
It does strike me as odd though the total mobility of the A-League GF – - which has issues then of attempting to keep available a minimum of 8 grounds with bookings.
Too much mobility of a GF is an issue. THe NRL needs the business model to dictate certain minimum criteria re corporate facilities etc.
The main thing with the AFL is the rights of the ‘premium members’ – - such as the Docklands Medallion Club members as well as the MCC members and top notch AFL members who have the ‘right to a ticket’ at the MCG. To move the GF would create an uproar (other than in 1991 when the Southern Stand was being rebuilt) – - – what sort of arrangements does the NRL have?? If any??
September 22nd 2009 @ 5:05pm
Redb said | September 22nd 2009 @ 5:05pm | Report comment
The Link,
The NSWRL or NRL GF always been played in Sydney…. err its tradtional home.
Redb
September 22nd 2009 @ 4:57pm
Michael C said | September 22nd 2009 @ 4:57pm | Report comment
ah, now – this is the interesting thing……not the Sydney and AFL bit
(although Ron Barassi made his suggestion that he’d only reckon a Sydney GF would be warranted should the AFL be going ‘gang busters’ within the market – and that might be measured by having 3-4 teams relatively successfully in place for 20 odd years.)
but – with the McIntyre ’8′ system and 2 prelim finals, does 1st only win the right to host if they win through to the Prelim from week 1? Does 2nd have the ‘right’ to win the ‘hosting rights’, or – is that reserved for 1st as a clear distinction b/w 1st and 2nd (which currently is lacking).
September 22nd 2009 @ 5:12pm
The Link said | September 22nd 2009 @ 5:12pm | Report comment
RedB – OK, but its more about the ground than the city for RL. If the RL GF was still at the SCG it would be different, but its inevitable that a GF will be in QLD for example.
MC – GF venue should be determined independently of relative placings in the competition and should be done before the start of the comp (isn’t the Superbowl location decided >12 months before?)
September 22nd 2009 @ 5:18pm
Tiger Town said | September 22nd 2009 @ 5:18pm | Report comment
The NRL has the advantage that it can use its Origin series to showcase the code around Aust & NZ. The AFL on the other hand has shown its true colours by saying it won’t even consider moving its GF from the MCG for at least another 20 years. That’s a message completely at odds with its inclusive campaign being used to expand in NSW and Qld. The northern states won’t take to AFL seriously until the AFL shows it is serious about being national by actions and not just in words.
September 22nd 2009 @ 6:21pm
Pippinu said | September 22nd 2009 @ 6:21pm | Report comment
Tiger
professional footballers want to play the game at the MCG.
In 1996, the respective captains of the two grand final teams were born and raised in Wagga, and made that city proud.
Do you think the people of Wagga cared that that the grand final wasn’t played in Wagga?
This Saturday, St Kilda will be captained by a bloke from the Gold Coast – there would not be a single person on the Gold Coast thinking the grand final shouldt be played somewhere else apart from the MCG.
September 22nd 2009 @ 8:27pm
Face Up said | September 22nd 2009 @ 8:27pm | Report comment
How can anyone take AFL as the game for all Australians if AFL is not prepared to play the GF in Sydney? Reason: it will no doubt mean taking the Brownlow and the street parade out of Melbourne too.
AFL & Melbourne wants to share its game, but when push comes to shove you want the rest of Australia to come to you (in Melbourne).
September 22nd 2009 @ 9:12pm
Redb said | September 22nd 2009 @ 9:12pm | Report comment
How can anyone take NRL as the game for all Australians when it does not even have teams in each of the five major Australian capital cities.
Some posters call the NRL progressive for wanting offer up their GF I’d say they are playing catch up football.
Redb
September 22nd 2009 @ 9:15pm
Dogs Of War said | September 22nd 2009 @ 9:15pm | Report comment
Well the NRL does have teams in more of the top 20 most populated cities in Australia than the AFL does. Plus a team in NZ. So you could argue that the NRL takes the game to the people, rather than make the people come to it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Australia_by_population
September 22nd 2009 @ 9:28pm
Redb said | September 22nd 2009 @ 9:28pm | Report comment
560,000 club members puts the AFL pretty high up in the communtity engagement stakes with Australians. NRL has what 150,000?
September 22nd 2009 @ 9:35pm
Dogs Of War said | September 22nd 2009 @ 9:35pm | Report comment
NRL is getting on that horse late in the race, but it is moving along, and within 10-15 years, the culture change will have occurred, with people becoming use to being members of their sporting clubs.
I like how you always change tact when you lose an argument.
September 22nd 2009 @ 9:38pm
AndyRoo said | September 22nd 2009 @ 9:38pm | Report comment
Redb
Thats not fair, we just aren’t membership people yet.
A mate from melbourne asked me if I was a member of the Bne Roar and I answered with something like “you dont save very much” met with shocked look “and I might miss some games…”
I thought I had stepped in something
“it’s about supporting the team!!!!!”
I know a few families with Broncos memberships and none of them go to every game, they share it arround amongst their immediate family and friends. Probably 12 different people used those 4 tickets.
We are slowly grasping the Vic passion thing and like Dogs says we are way behind and are only just getting on board with Memberships.
September 22nd 2009 @ 9:42pm
Redb said | September 22nd 2009 @ 9:42pm | Report comment
Like I said DOW, playing catch up football.
and you are the one who intro’d the regional city list to ‘broaden’ your argument.
Club members demonstrate people engagement dont you think, they are rusted on fans.
September 22nd 2009 @ 9:50pm
Dogs Of War said | September 22nd 2009 @ 9:50pm | Report comment
Different culture’s, Sydney people, and it seems Rugby League people never had that culture. Our game can be watching just as well, if not better on TV with all the action generally occurring on screen. At the game you feel the atmosphere a lot better, and their are other benefits, but I can say that you don’t lose a lot from being at home on the couch either.
Now clubs are pushing it as they realise that it is an income stream they haven’t focused on previously, their will be a huge increase each year, as the atmosphere at games grows due to each game being a bigger event.
The NRL has something else the AFL doesn’t have, one of the closest comps going around, which means your team just needs to make the eight to stand a chance. When was the last time a team won the comp in the AFL that finished 6th or below?
September 22nd 2009 @ 9:57pm
Face Up said | September 22nd 2009 @ 9:57pm | Report comment
The National Football League doesn’t have a franchise in every USA state capital either.
September 22nd 2009 @ 10:02pm
Redb said | September 22nd 2009 @ 10:02pm | Report comment
like I said catch up football.
September 22nd 2009 @ 10:06pm
Dogs Of War said | September 22nd 2009 @ 10:06pm | Report comment
Catch up in some areas, while distinctly ahead in others. When is the next AFL touring side coming over?
September 22nd 2009 @ 6:09pm
Rugby 1 said | September 22nd 2009 @ 6:09pm | Report comment
League fans crack me up, the only people that will watch nrl final in Melbourne or nz are people that would fly there from syd or brisbane, and the only people that watch the storm in Melbourne are ex pats. Get over your selves!!!!
September 22nd 2009 @ 9:43pm
Norm said | September 22nd 2009 @ 9:43pm | Report comment
Q. How many people turned up to last year’s Shute Shield GF?
A. Less than 5,500.
September 22nd 2009 @ 6:34pm
Crosscoder said | September 22nd 2009 @ 6:34pm | Report comment
Rugby1
Written and authorised by ARU head office no doubt.Got to love them.
There were next to no Manly fans at the Etihad stadium,when they played the Storm a fortnight ago.Yet 21,000 plus so called “expats’ turned up.
Suggest ru would be happy to get 21,000 “expats’ to attend S14/15/……… ad infinitum in Melbourne.
Always rely on a union man to give a completely researched and accurate insight,on the rl attendance habits of people in Melbourne and Auckland, attending rl finals and SOO matches.
I would be more concerned in getting the FTA Tv ratings for intnls up to speed on your code,as they are falling faster than the sharemarket crash in 08.
Anycase the chances of a rugby league G/F going to Melbourne are 1 in a 100,000.
September 22nd 2009 @ 6:40pm
Rugby 1 said | September 22nd 2009 @ 6:40pm | Report comment
Fact-league is played in PARTS of 2 countries! Expansion only happens in your own back yard. State of origin had less crowd numbers in Sydney than tri nations. Afl by far largest sport and very successful throughout aust.
September 22nd 2009 @ 7:00pm
Dogs Of War said | September 22nd 2009 @ 7:00pm | Report comment
Fact???? SoO had less crowd numbers? It was a sellout, so it’s a mute point if the Rugby test got more. How about we compare the TV ratings for the two events? I am sure it becomes more apparent which one people want to watch.
September 22nd 2009 @ 7:00pm
prowling panther said | September 22nd 2009 @ 7:00pm | Report comment
actually origin in sydney drew more this year (by a couple of hundred)
September 24th 2009 @ 12:08am
Robbo said | September 24th 2009 @ 12:08am | Report comment
Fact: Origin in Sydney drew more than the Sydney Tri Nations test (83,000 v. 80,000)
Fact: Origin in Melbourne drew more than the Australia v. Italy test (54,000 v. 23,000)
Fact: Origin in Brisbane drew more than the Tri Nations test (52,000 v. 47,000)
I love both Union and League. League is a better sport (no union player is in the same ball park as Israel Folau/Jarryd Hayne/Greg Inglis except Habana on a VERY good day). Union has better traditions (atmosphere wise nothing in League comes ANYWHERE near Landsdowne Road or Millenium Stadium in the 6 Nations).
September 22nd 2009 @ 6:47pm
Rugby 1 said | September 22nd 2009 @ 6:47pm | Report comment
Qld reds averaged 20000 per game all year and finished second last, and current tv ratings always drops when wallabies lose. 172 countries play with a true world cup……. Give it few years rugby will be back in the winners circle!!!
September 22nd 2009 @ 6:52pm
Dan said | September 22nd 2009 @ 6:52pm | Report comment
While I hope you’re right, some how it seems to me that of the 2 Rugby League is the better run code in this country… League manages to survive all kinds of hell and still keep good crowds and ratings, while Union remains too dependent on the success of the wallabies thanks to the short S14 season. The administration has too few professional players and the organisation is too fractured and incoherent for it to currently threaten the dominance of Rugby League. Perhaps if a viable and successful fully professional domestic competition could be started, then we might be on the way in say the next 20-30 years, but currently this is nothing but a pipe dream.
September 23rd 2009 @ 8:48am
mushi said | September 23rd 2009 @ 8:48am | Report comment
A support base totally dependent on winning is like a wife’s affection that is totally dependent on your income.
September 22nd 2009 @ 6:59pm
Rugby 1 said | September 22nd 2009 @ 6:59pm | Report comment
Lol lol reading everyone comments on this thing is a pipe dream (nrl final at MCG state of origin in nz ha ha ha I’m in tears of laughter please stop!!!
September 23rd 2009 @ 8:33am
mushi said | September 23rd 2009 @ 8:33am | Report comment
Glad we could provide some entertainment for the Union boys given how little they get on the field from their own sport stay strong boys only two more years until you’re relevant again.
September 23rd 2009 @ 10:55am
oikee said | September 23rd 2009 @ 10:55am | Report comment
Good one Mushi, their rules are in koas and the amount of whinging that goes on their blog is unbeleivable. The kiwis all get on the blog thinking they dominate the rugby codes, they really have no idea of the strength of rugby league in oz. Could you really imagine any cable network in usa wanting to buy a rugby union comp? The NFL would laugh it out of the park. At least league has a chance to hold their interest. Cheers.
The feedback from the yanks watching league has been spot-on, they love it, already have a storm supporter following.
September 24th 2009 @ 1:19pm
Pete said | September 24th 2009 @ 1:19pm | Report comment
You mean like how they broadcast Heineken Cup, Super 14, 6 nations, tri-nations, Currie Cup and the Rugby World Cup over there? Is that what you mean oikee??
September 22nd 2009 @ 7:05pm
prowling panther said | September 22nd 2009 @ 7:05pm | Report comment
They should keep the NRL GF in Sydney for the short term future. Once a couple more Queensland teams are added to the League than nrl can maybe look at staging it at suncorp every 3 years much like an Origin is played in Melb every 3 years
A GF at the MCG would be about as successful as a Victorian Origin team
September 22nd 2009 @ 7:07pm
Crosscoder said | September 22nd 2009 @ 7:07pm | Report comment
Please name the 2 countries,where rugby league is played in parts.The fuses are being lit for the return salvo.
SOO has 3 matches in NSW/QLD/Vic,the tri nations only draws large crowds for the Bledisloe in Sydney (a 1 off).All this during the NRl season proper,compared to ru having the tests towards the end of the s14 season.
Please don’t ask me to throw in TV ratings for SOO compared to Tri nations.There will have to be some arm twisting for the next FTA ru deal.
AFL is indeed the largest spectator sport in Australia,no argument from me on that one.The Swans are still down on crowds/Tv ratings/and sponsorship this year in Sydney.
“Expansion only happens in your own back yard”,is rubbish.AFL has shown otherwise,and the Storm(in only 10 years) and Warriors have shown that to also be false.The fact WA via the Reds is pushing to get back in ,for the next NRL expansion,explodes that myth.There are players running around in the NRL from WA and the NT.