Comments on: Wallaby disgrace! Money comes before the jersey

By: Roy Kneebone

Roy Kneebone — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:03:14 +0000

His name is David harvey, won the Ken Catchpole medal last year for best player in the comp.
Has signed with an Italian team. Another one we let go. Doesnt suprise us

By: Chris Beck

Chris Beck — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:02:07 +0000

Greg Russell’s comment above reminds me of a scene in the Clint Eastwood movie “Heartbreak Ridge.”

One morning Eastwood has the platoon out in front of the barracks and he says he wants the place all squared away for inspection. The platoon protests, so he takes a vote. “How many of you think the barracks is ready to go as is?” Everyone puts up their hands. “There you go – democracy in action.” Big smiles all around the platoon. Eastwood: “We’ll run instead.”

By: AC

AC — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 01:16:35 +0000

Don’t know what you’re talking about regarding Tuqiri. Like any other employee, he was warned, warned again, and got sacked on his final indiscretion. Tough luck. Good on the ARU for being strong. Maybe I’m one of the fooled ones though, thinking that a sporting body actually has the guts to discipline players when the precedent from the other contact football codes is to molly coddle the players.

By: damos_x

damos_x — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 00:35:04 +0000

would it be any wonder that the players have a look after number one attitude after they see team-mates shunted under the auspices of ‘dicipline’ issues when it suits the ARU ( Tuqiri) & their incessant recruitment of league players over developing talent ( no irony intended that both of these examples fit Tuqiri) so no wonder they are “greedy”.In fact the Tuqiri fiasco is the perfect example, his signing cost not only the millions in wages but also more than one younger player who would have received the benefit of the proper disbursement of these funds to training facilities etc. The whole period is stained by both the controversy of big money recruitment & the discipline or lack thereof shown by Lote at different times which affects public opinion & therefore the image & sponsorship thus further damaging rugby ( this is not a criticism of Tuqiri or his play etc, merely the view that for all the good it has been outweighed by the negative effects of the actions of the ARU) & to top it off the story ends with a completely bungled & possibly illegal sacking of a player who in the not too distant past was the man who was the face of Australian rugby. That no-one is fooled by the ARU’s insistence that it has acted properly in sacking him is another blow to such a proud & honourable sport. At it’s most extreme, public opinion now has the ARU seen as a bunch of liars who think we are all idiots & the Wallabies a lot of soft self-centred whingers more interested in accounting & hairstyles than getting blood on the sacred jersey. Harsh & mostly far from the truth but perhaps a spade really is a spade. For me the ultimate irony is that 2 former league players who shunned or were shunned by the ARU when changing codes ( Gasnier & Gower) will prove to have been among the best of the converts & they have had nothing to do with the ARU. What a contrast to the mess we have seen regarding the likes of Tuqiri & Rogers.

By: Amband

Amband — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:10:05 +0000

Mould would make a good Wallaby coach

By: Amband

Amband — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:59:46 +0000

you wanna kow who’s ruining the game. Look at who’s running it! Same with any group, organisation of any kind

By: AndyS

AndyS — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 07:12:57 +0000

As a passing thought, does anyone have any insight into the deal with RUPA? I have generally seen it presented as simplistically as a percentage of take goes into the player payment pool, out of which the match payments and retainers then come. If that was an accurate representation, would there be anything to stop the ARU reducing the guaranteed payments and contracting more players (perhaps over time)? That would seem to fulfil several requirements, making match payments a bigger part of any Wallaby players income and increasing the competition for those match payments. And could RUPA argue that there are too many professional players, or that one group of their players require preference over other players they also represent?

By: Worlds Biggest

Worlds Biggest — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 07:10:36 +0000

JON should have taken on Dempsey here. Any player not involved in the trial will not go on the Spring Tour. Could the Wallabies alienate there supporters any further from this point ?

By: AndyS

AndyS — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 05:37:12 +0000

That would have been a nice one – to fund the travel of junior teams like that school team that had to scrape together $70k to go to the World Youth Tournament in Japan, or offset the cost of the schoolboys team. Or perhaps use it as a way to get the ARS back up and running for the amateur game again…

By: Harry

Harry — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 05:02:08 +0000

Bob,

The fish rots from the head.

This week has revealed a dramatic and clear lack of leadership at both the ARU and the Wallabies playing and coaching leaders.

I 100% agree the structure under the Wallabies needs restucuring and deepening and more money spent on it. The problem is that Wallaby players are hogging the overwhelming bulk of the revenue and have adopted under RUA and “entitlement” mentality. There are very compelling arguments they are overpaid when benchmarking their remuneration and performance against 1) other nations and 2) other code in Australia. I strongly disagree the current playing sqad “aren’t that bad” … they have been content to settle for second-best for 6 years and counting, with little improvement demonstrated or, more tellingly, effort and will to improve demonstrated. During this time the team have pocketed large and I would contend undeserved rewards while the fabric of the Australian game has been seriously undermined.

By: Mick of Newie

Mick of Newie — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 04:43:32 +0000

Please ignore the following ignorant post from a non rugby person.

This current round gnashing of teeth is quite amusing. For the last 30 years I have watched a lot of sport and occasionally a bit of rugby. With the exception of a couple of periods NZ have been better than Australia. I am told historically SA were the greatest rugby nation.

My point is, isn’t the current season pretty much normal transmission for the Wallabies.

By: Gerrard

Gerrard — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 04:35:47 +0000

Damn and we were crucified for wearing armbands. They bring disrepute to the game and there NATION.

By: bob

bob — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 01:09:25 +0000

Sam T, I agree, there is a real need for a pro “attitude” to go with the pro conditions… and representing your country should be the aim, the dream… not the sports car that comes with it. But The squad isn’t that bad… it’s sickening when a team capitulates, on any level, but especially when they wear your nations shirt, and it makes you angry… but the squad, a week before were heroes… as most of us are players and ex-players, we need to remember that one bad game, or even one bad season does not equal disaster or treachery. The real isssue is where the young players are coming from, and wher ethe paying public are able to see high class club games… not just S14… the issue for me is that the whole depth of aussie rugby has be looked at… a few guys here have mentioned that the junior game is in trouble and I assume they have direct experience of the game, where I am just assuming and using anecdotal observation…. but something is wrong, and not just amongst the current wallabie, who I still maintain, are not that bad!

By: stillmissit

stillmissit — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:46:33 +0000

Westy and Harry – I genuinely thought this practice would stop with O’Neil handling the control of negotiations. It is a bit understandable as they were trying to ward off attacks by rugby league, as in the amateur era, but even that is hard to understand given most people know what the leaguies get paid.

Overseas is a big call if you haven’t established your self in the Wallabies. The list is full of players who played less than 10 games and it makes up about 70% from memory. Hold on I’ll get the real numbers:

Players 492 >Ten games 62.80487805 One game15.04% two games12.60% 3 games 27.64%
My stats finish in 2006 with Sheehan on one game but I dont think that wil skew things too much.

By: Harry

Harry — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:20:30 +0000

Westy I have similar insight into precisely what one of our (underperforming and with clear areas of his game to improve) blond bleached backs was being paid a season – $650,000. Thats way above what he could earn in league and even above the easy Japanese money – this same guy told me most of the players in Japan earn around 300,000 to 400,000 a season in Japan, but that it is worth a lot more because its effectively tax free and they live for free, plus get generous deals in putting up family – good house, cars, etc.
Your point is a good one on the ARU’s negotiating ability. Some reality and pay for performance alignment needs to occur. If this means more players going overseas, so be it. Its not as if the Walls and Australian rugby players are setting the world on fire anymore – no Australian team in the S14 semis, 2 S14 titles in 14 years, 7 years no Bledisloe, Quarter-final humiliation in the last world cup, wooden spoon in this year’s 3N.

By: fox

fox — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:08:43 +0000

Theere is a stark difference in attitudes, but these 3 players are playing for positions. As someone said earlier, the incumbents have no interest in playing internal trials or other matches because they are just that: incumbents.

By: allblackfan

allblackfan — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 22:07:50 +0000

Contrast this story with this one about Wellington’s All Blacks forsaking a Hawaiian holiday and two weeks leave to help their NPC teammates
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/provincial/2892317/Wellingtons-All-Blacks-shun-holiday
The contrast in attitudes couldn’t be more stark!

By: Dingbat

Dingbat — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:15:39 +0000

It’s sad to witness this Aussie implosion.

By: Bob McGregor

Bob McGregor — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:03:16 +0000

Here’s another approach to player payment in Tests.
Full negotiated pay for a win; 50% of pay for a draw and 25% for a loss and 15% if beaten by record scoreline. If greed is the motivating factor we should experience far more wins against top 8 countries in future.
If my memory is correct, ARL teams of the 50′s/60′s were paid on results. Perhaps the ARU should think along similar lines?
If money was the motivating factor then there would be a mass exodus to Nth Hemisphere for the ‘cash’. At least those that remained would have sacrificed to represent their country and odds would favour they would strive to nth degree and probably succeed.

By: Tahriffc

Tahriffc — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:56:04 +0000

By: Stash

Stash — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:49:46 +0000

2,500 is chump change for a professional player of a world renowned sport.

If they want you to play then you deserve the pay. (It would have been cheap 2 weeks ago after they spanked the boks)

Come on you get paid more for holding tiger woods’ golf balls

By: Westy

Westy — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:31:24 +0000

I was dicussing player payments with a player manager. This person informed me the ARU signed o’Connor on a 2 year contract worth $1.2 million. This was confirmed by workingclass rugby on this site. The player manager ( not O’Connor’s) said O’Connor’s manager did an outstanding job. I of course asked why ? He said where did you think he was going to go ?
Rugby League! He said he is a player of real potential but he ain’t the goods yet. Babyfaced looks might be worth an extra $50000 but did ARU seriously think he woulg go at this stage of his career to Europe or Japan ! He is not there yet.
At his age at his level of development he wants to get test experience he wants to play for the wallabies . You have got him by the balls until the next World Cup.. He is a $300000/$350000 man. He told me the ARU always pays over the top even when they have the bargaining power. You see he is young but your still not sure of how good. Why pay more then you need.
He said their attitude stems from the fact they have never really run a professional competition. remember the he told me they only run 4 bloody teams and the Wallabies. Having 16 to 18 professional teams and being hard nosed about player worth is not yet part of ARU experience.
Only one man’s opinion I hope he is not correct.

By: Tahriffc

Tahriffc — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:26:00 +0000

Should this match have been set up as a commerciial venture in the first place

Why should we the long suffering supporters be asked to pay more money to decide if this years underachievers should be replaced?

If the ARU had set it up as a thankyou to the public – then the players would never have asked for their share -and this issue would never have arisen

I’ve spent all year paying over priced tickets – for inept performances – why should I have to pay to see – who is worse than the others

By: Tahriffc

Tahriffc — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:20:01 +0000

At the end of the day – if it was all about the current players being challenged by up and comers – then the match should be played at North Sydney and be open to the public free of charge – as a way of Australian Rugby (ARU and Players) saying “thankyou for sticking by us in the hard times!”

But at the moment – it is the ARU staging a commercial venture to make some more money (for them and the ARU) -saying to the public “please come and pay us some more money – although we have let you down this year”

Why should the public have to give more money to the ARU – who have taken a Bledisloe off shore at the Australian public’s expense.

Given that the ARU have said – stuff you – pay us more money – why are the player the only villian in all of this?

I’m not saying the players are beyond culpability in this – rather I am saying there is joint culpability

By: fred

fred — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:01:28 +0000

hasnt adjusted well to new culture and has to use different techniques.he is recruiting young players to facilitate change instead of developing the best balance ot players to win in the future without compromising the present.tactics and selections as you say have been imo idiotic.if deans isnt careful the team will lose belief,trust and respect necessary to evolve

By: brad

brad — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:30:09 +0000

whats the issue? robbie deans should force them to play a training match anyway. The ARU should allow the training session to be open to the public end of story. Plus they should be forced to sign autographs after. Robbie deans is the idiot here, he has no power over his players thats why they do not play for him

By: onside

onside — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:08:57 +0000

I dont know Chris.Might help.
Some years in international sport Aussies are just dreadful.Other times we are top of the heap.
This depends more on natural selection and less on coaches.All countries experience the trends.
Newspapers,TV,.and blogs depend on the mob,us,thinking they know better and are able to make
difference.Fantasy of course ,but it pays the rent. Australians tend to take things for granted.The
champion players and champion sides are accepted as the norm,the Aussie way. But its not the
norm.Never was the norm.Subsequently, in times like now,when the Wallabies are doing their
best but unable to win the punters howl at the moon.Tough men cry in their sleep because they
are exhausted,did their best but bruised and battered fell short.There is nothing left.The people
scream for more,call our players cowards,look for every reason than the obvious,that the other
team were better.Just because I get paid doesnt make me better.The tradegy is ,that when the
Wallabies win,and everybody jumps on the bandwagon,the players have to share the limelight
with hypocrits.But hey, thats the price you pay.Having to put up with it means players earn every
dollar.We can have a National comp and a bigger player pool,all that,but it will never stop
peoples unralistic expectations.The better things are the more the public expect.They in fact are
the real losers.

By: Chris

Chris — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 09:50:04 +0000

Harry I hope you’re not right, surely the ARU wouldn’t pull a PR stunt like this? I don’t think they’d even do it

By: Insider

Insider — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 09:09:34 +0000

When are the ARU and the players going to wake up to RUPA and the one man show that rules Australian Rugby!

All that RUPA cares about is the percentage of ARU/Wallabies money its gets to spend as it sees fit. No transparency. The more money the players get- the more RUPA gets….

RUPA tells players when they can play, for how long, and for how much – or is it playing, rest, active rest etc…. A one man dictatorship!

Growden states “RUPA, which was bankrolled by the ARU, has fought O’Neill persistently and viciously as he tried to get a more equitable dispersal of the News Ltd monies to promote and grow rugby in Australia. This latest disgrace is part of the continuing battle, it seems to me, between RUPA and O’Neill, a battle in which, again in my opinion, RUPA has invariably been in the wrong”.

RUPA was the main instigator of the unsucessful and finanically damaging ARC – and who lost money in that venture – certainly not the players – only the ARU!

RUPA does not care if you play Club Rugby or Volunteer or Referee.. because it can not make money from them.

Wake up and lets return to the future where being a Wallaby was a highly prixed honour and not a meal ticket.

By: AndyS

AndyS — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 07:52:00 +0000

I think the ACT team also broke even or better.