By Andrew Logan
September 30th 2009 @ 12:43am
Related coverage
It’s time for the launch of Rugby Australia
If there’s one thing which characterizes Australian rugby at the moment, it’s frustration. Just about everyone you speak to is frustrated and angry, frustrated and worried, or just frustrated and sad.
After fourteen years of professionalism, rugby lovers outside the professional sphere are feeling their game slip away from them.
Where once they felt a part of the fabric of rugby, they now feel like fringe dwellers. Where once they owned a stake in the game, they are now alienated and dispossessed, watching helplessly as the ARU ignores their pleas for a seat at the table.
And, where once the supporters felt empowered to have an opinion, they now feel that their hopes and dreams for rugby are being swatted away like so many flies at a picnic.
Although the frustration and alienation is in many ways characterized by the Wallabies poor performances, it is in no way limited to them.
All levels of the game outside of the elite struggle for assistance to develop and grow rugby, and they certainly cry out for any sort of true representation. If you’re not involved at national or provincial level (and even the provinces are now starting to find themselves marginalized), you have no voice.
Examples are everywhere.
Avenues for burgeoning players have been systematically dismantled in the last few years, with the Australian Rugby Championship, the Australia A program, and the Australian Rugby Shield all being simply abolished.
The ARC may have cost a lot, but assurances from the ARU that it would be replaced by another model, have evaporated into the ether.
There is no national competition, and no prospect of having one in the near future. Many supporters who accepted, and even argued for, the ARC’s demise now feel that they may have been led up the garden path, given that nothing has arisen to replace it.
The Melbourne Super 15 bid has been marred by controversy and in-fighting, and although it is difficult to unravel the claim and counter-claim, the point really is that the ARU has systematically denied the VRU the opportunity to enjoy the same privileges that the other state unions enjoy – that is, management of the Super Rugby franchise in their state.
The governing body is actively attempting to sideline the state union from administration of the Super Rugby franchise in Victoria, which means that however you slice and dice it, they are cutting the link from the people at the grassroots, to rugby at the elite level.
Super Rugby in Victoria will no longer be owned by the constituents, but by a private consortium handpicked by the ARU, and no amount of token-seats-on-the-board will change that for Victorians.
At national level, development and participation numbers are another vast source of “lies, damn lies and statistics”, but the evidence that counts (ie the experience of parents and their kids) is damning.
Simply put, the vast majority of kids don’t get anything from rugby, whereas they get plenty from other codes, particularly AFL. Even on the north shore of Sydney, which should be the rugby stronghold of all strongholds, the number of kids kicking a red Sherrin around is frightening.
A mate of mine in Orange, NSW (who is incidentally a rugby league fan), recently bemoaned his lack of success at getting his boys interested in league, because the AFL is regularly visiting their school, running programs and giving them equipment.
The boys want my mate to bring them to Sydney to watch the Swans.
As for rugby, it is so far off their radar that they hardly even know it exists.
Club and country rugby no longer has any tangible link with players at the peak of the game. NSW and QLD Country, South Australia and Western Australia no longer play touring teams.
Super Rugby, unlike the NRL, is never able to be taken to the bush because with only 7 home games a year, the gate is all important.
There is no such thing as a country-based Wallaby any more, and there is not a club anywhere outside Sydney, Canberra or Brisbane metro with a current or recent former Wallaby playing on a regular season basis.
The two biggest forays into country NSW by representative players in the last 12 months, were driven not by the ARU, but by RUPA who organized a visit of several ex-Wallabies to Orange last year, and the Silver Foxes (a volunteer group of former Wallabies and others playing rugby for charity).
Where am I going with all this?
The point is that after 14 years of professionalism, the ARU, which was once a custodian and servant of rugby in a federal system where the States ‘own’ the game, has forgotten its role.
Instead of listening to its constituents and fostering the growth of the game, it has adopted an angry father-knows-best approach, fobbing off the true owners of the sport with a patronizing “you wouldn’t understand”, or worse, “you don’t need to know”.
It has become the master it aspires to be, rather than the servant that it was intended and constitutionally positioned to be.
So what is the answer for those outside of the elite?
For many, the time is ripe for rebellion.
If the ARU won’t, or can’t, fix the problems at grassroots levels, then it may just be time for the constituents to form their own body and fix some of the issues themselves – issues such as rugby development and opportunities for players outside the existing Super franchises.
After all, if you have a leaky tap and your landlord won’t do anything about it, you get down to the hardware store and fix it yourself.
What could such an alternative body look like?
Well, hypothetically speaking, let’s call it Rugby Australia. Membership of Rugby Australia would be open to any individual with an interest in rugby, in return for a yearly membership fee. Membership would entitle rugby players and followers to vote on issues facing grassroots rugby, as well as a range of benefits, such as discounts on tickets and rugby-related products and services.
Rugby Australia would be governed by a board of directors at both state and national levels on 2 year terms.
These directors would be financial members, and would be voted for by other financial members every 2 years via a secure website.
Anyone with an interest in rugby could run for a position in on the Rugby Australia board at state or national level, and constituents would decide who was best placed to represent them.
The same secure website would enable constituents to vote on a range of issues raised by Rugby Australia, and would assist directors in making decisions about the way Rugby Australia distributed funds and assistance to clubs and individuals, as well as strategic initiatives such as rugby development programs.
The Rugby Australia charter would be simple – support for rugby at the grassroots, for the benefit of all players and supporters. It would be a development and support body, owned by the constituents and acting as a servant to the rugby community nationally.
Priorities would be to:
• Acknowledge and encourage ownership of the game by players and supporters
• Lobby the ARU and IRB on rugby issues nationally and globally
• Promote rugby as a participation sport at all levels
• Develop rugby skills at school, junior and club level
• Develop rugby coaches and referees at school, junior and club level
• Develop and support amateur representative opportunities for players at school, junior and club level
• Develop and support touring and overseas playing opportunities for players at school, junior and club level
Rugby Australia would not necessarily act in competition with the ARU, but rather simply be an overdue acknowledgement that the ARU and RUPA are now primarily concerned with the professional levels of the game, and that there is a need for another body to fill the void left by the ARU to drive development at the grassroots levels of rugby.
Rugby Australia could mobilize the passion for foundation levels of rugby in Australia by accrediting volunteer development officers; training referees and touch judges; acting as an agent for inbound tours from clubs and non-professional representative teams; raising money to make funding grants to schools and promising players for touring and development; and stage structured tournaments at amateur representative level, inviting professional scouts to view promising players.
The state bodies of Rugby Australia could eventually send their own teams to interstate tournaments, and maybe one day, run their own national tournament.
Funding would come from yearly subscriptions; events and match gates and corporate sponsorship.
Is it possible?
Of course the logistics wouldn’t be easy, but the amount of passion seeking an outlet in Australian rugby lately might just translate into something special, particularly if the numbers could be quantified and specific reports and referendum type votes submitted to the relevant bodies.
Player and supporter power could well form a formidable entity with the sheer weight of numbers on its side.
If nothing else, Rugby Australia would be an uncomfortable reminder to the ARU that what rugby followers in Australia want most, is a loyal servant – not an arrogant master.
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mcxd said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:50am | Report comment
Andrew, i enjoyed your article and your Rugby Australia is certainly very interesting.
You rasied an intersting point about the ARC’s demise and lack of replacement. Without trying to get into the old for or against ARC arguement, the subject always seems to me to be a problem without a solution type situation. One thing i have never understood is that besides the huge costs it took to run many people argued (especially from club rugby) that the teams didnt truely represent the areas it was supposed to represent. The newly established ARC teams didnt have the tribalism, the history and support from the local population it represents. IMO i didnt beleive this at all. Yes it doesnt have a history as that takes time to develop that support but surely it would have come ?
But in saying this I can also understand the the Club representatives arguement that it should be as the ARC would canibalise Sydney club comp that has that tribalism, tradition and history. As a result it should be some certain clubs from Sydney, Melbourne Canberra etc. that should be represented in an ARC type comp. Now the problem i see with this is for eg. I grew up in the Warringah area of Sydney. What kind of relatonship do i have with say Sydney uni or Randwick ? none. Why would i support either of these two teams ? Ive got not vested interest in these teams succeeding, they dont represent me. Anyway i may be rambling now but a replacement ARC type competition is always going to a difficult solution. Any solution is seems as though its always going to have its protractors especially with the very political way Australian Rugby is.
Andrew Logan said | September 30th 2009 @ 7:15am | Report comment
mcxd,
The national competition is one of the biggest problems we face, and you correctly point out most of the big challenges – funding, tribalism and resources.
I think that the national comp is a long term solution, and that Rugby Australia could play a very positive part in creating it because it would be focused on a national competition as a pinnacle of the grassroots. The problem with the ARU view is that it sees the national comp as a lowly third tier which pulls financial resources away from the elite level.
You can’t balance a pyramid on its point, but it sits comfortably on its base, and the bigger the base, the higher the peak. That’s why we need to focus on the grassroots – we’ll never grow the game by focusing on the Wallabies.
sheek said | September 30th 2009 @ 7:56am | Report comment
Andrew/mcxd,
With regards to a national comp (which I’m a continual advocate) you can’t have both with the super comp in its current format. Economic models won’t sustain both.
The S15 or whatever must be rejigged into a Heineken Cup style format. The super comp must be an adjunct to the various national comps, not a pseudo national comp, which it is for Australia at the moment. And indeed for NZ & SA also.
Andrew Logan said | September 30th 2009 @ 8:09am | Report comment
Yeah but Sheek – what do you think of the idea?
sheek said | September 30th 2009 @ 8:45am | Report comment
Andrew,
The approach must be both ways, top-down & bottom-up.
Because of the point we’ve arrived at today, it’s unavoidable a two-pronged approach is required.
Youth still need a beacon to move towards, to give them hope for the future. A national comp is a priority to also counter the other codes, which are quite simply, swamping rugby.
Meanwhile, a lot of resources have to thrown at juniors, to build the base. We need more players, more quality players, & bring back the very good volunteer coaches.
if this means the Wallabies & administrative high=flyers taking a cut, so be it. Professional rugby in Australia has been over-subscribed these past 15 years, & now the game as a whole is paying the price.
Working Class Rugger said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Sheek
I think what Andrew was alluding to in his article was that the ARU could for the short to medium term worry about the professional side of the game. So Top-down. While Rugby Australia would work for the bottom-up approach. This approach to Rugby development is very necessary.
Andrew.
This is the exact form of revolution I want. Do you have any ideas of people who could get it off the ground. I’d sign up.
Miguel Sanchez said | November 2nd 2009 @ 5:37pm | Report comment
Fantasy land.
Union’s reversion to fifth rate status is merely the re-establishment of the sporting status quo in Australia.
Have a look at Wallabies crowds in Australia for the bulk of the 20th century if you feel like a laugh sometime…
Billo said | September 30th 2009 @ 3:03am | Report comment
I find it very sad for rugby that so many articles on The Roar are about how to haul the game out of the hole that it finds itself in in Australia, with various sorts of reorganisations proposed, most of them filled with good intentions but with no chance of coming about.
Maybe the problem is that there are very few great romantic stories that reinforce rugby as a force for good in society.
Given the stuff that has been reported about the NRL this year, it may seem strange to say it, but the story of Jarryd Hayne and his mother, and the tough life she had bringing him up, that came out when he won the Dally M Medal, was massively influential in bringing a feelgood factor to rugby league. It’s hard to get a story like that out of rugby, when most of our players come from private schools and, therefore, relatively privileged backgrounds.
Andrew Logan said | September 30th 2009 @ 7:10am | Report comment
Billo,
I think you’re right with most of the proposed reorganisations – that they have little chance of coming about. Why? Because they have all relied on the ARU to bring them about and as we have seen, that just isn’t going to happen.
Rugby Australia doesn’t rely on the ARU for anything – it is self governed, and self-funded. All it requires is the collective will of the rugby populace in Australia to join up and have a voice.
The easiest thing in the world is to sit back and come up with reasons why Rugby Australia can’t happen. The most positive thing for us all to do, would be to make it happen.
Cheers…
Ruck and Maul said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:37pm | Report comment
I have followed this argument for a long time…I have coached, been a manger and at times both for quite a few years and at the moment don’t want to remember the years.
I have been involved with a GRASS ROOT CLUB for over 20 years as parent,coach, manager, president, president/coach/manager/secretary/canteen salesperson/BBQ attendant and ground person, cleaner, supporter and etc etc etc….
The only code we follow in my house hold is RUGBY UNION…but at the moment I am concerned where the game we love has gone to the arseholes of the ARU and RUPA who have themselves more importance than the game WE LOVE.
I have read a lot of shit from a lot of whiners over the time and have decided to put forward my 2 ‘bobs’ worth…maybe some youngsters won’t know what that means but who gives a fuk.
When I was in high school back in the 60’s RUGBY UNION was the only rugby code played in in all schools…you don’t agree. I went to Enmore High School (a public school) which now does not exist.
My brother in law who went to the same high school in the seventies had the choice of RUGBY FKING LEAGUE or Snooker as a winter sport…Rugby Union was not mentioned.
I can go on for ever like some comments I have read but the establishment have lost the plot.
My wife stated that the ARU are working TOP DOWN (ie., Super14 to Grass Roots)…my reply no Grass Roots no Super 14/15.
Simply…we need a competition like Rugby league a national competition…the Sydney comp (yeah Randwick, Sydney Uni they can still stay in 1St Grade but the structure of the the now defunct ARC should be be revisited…but in a professional manner. Not pay the ABC to televise e but sell the rights to Free to Air and Fox.
A competition involving all of the Australian states (NSW, Qld,ACT, WA and Vic) and NZ…YES, NEW ZEALAND.
A TRANS TASMAN CUP.
The only reason Rugby League still survives is that the BUY player fron UNDER 15’s up…you don’t believe me…wake up…one of my Under 14’s was paid $15K a year just to ply in the Balmain junior comp.
Keep the Shute Shield and the other competitions but let the clubs from each ‘province’ control their club/team.
We have the players…all the way to Under 7s…but if we dont keep them , they go to Rugby League.
I follow Andrew statement in the respect that we have conversed, argued and belittled comments in this Blog for some time, with no result as we are ‘talking in the wind’.
I have heard and read abot 2 rugby reps seeing the west with so many possible players…for fuks sake I have not seen a rugby rep in the innew west for over 15 years.
After the the Tuquiri episode (don;t take me wrong…I’m glad he has gone…a waste of lots of dollars for somebody who read his own news articles)…we the supporters the people that keep rugby union going are still in the dark. Right, wrong or other wise we should be informed…
That is the state of RUGBY AT THE MOMENT…WE THE SUPPORTERS DO NOT COUNT.
Oniel has his corporate (personal) ideals tofollow and express…the GRASS ROOTS and the rest can go and get F###ed.
Ruck and Maul said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:56pm | Report comment
1st time experience…got cut out, before I can finish…anyway Ii am tired of talking, reading and listening of all the Pros and Cons.
If the ARU cant get off their ARSE and listen to the supporters/believers then Rugby will go with the Dodo.
ps…I can save money…the only reason I have FOX is because of RUGBY…I will save $1,300 per year sounds good to me.
Mr cheese said | September 30th 2009 @ 3:17am | Report comment
Do they have any excuse at all for not going round the schools and promoting the sport ? It seems pretty basic.
In England, the sport of Rugby Union is growing for precisely that reason: most people in England are unfamiliar with Rugby so the RFU has actually put measures in place to introduce people to the sport.
I went to a state ( i.e. tax-payer funded ) school in Liverpool, England. There was no rugby there when I was a teenager but they now have Rugby Union alongside football. Rugby is almost unheard of in Liverpool but the governing body has encouraged schools to take it up, so that it’s no longer private school-dominated.
I don’t understand why that’s such a difficult step to take in Aus. Perhaps it’s like tennis over here: the top people know what they have to do to make the game more successful, but they refuse to do it. Sad.
Working Class Rugger said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:31am | Report comment
Mr Cheese
Self-interest, egotism and complete detachment from reality are but a few. All of which are rife at the top of the Rugbh “pyramid” in Australia. Sadly.
jools-usa said | September 30th 2009 @ 5:27am | Report comment
Hi Andrew,
You know more about the state of OZ rugby & what’s been done & what needs to be done,
but can we not take a look at the positives despite all the minusus?
We have a young, albeit not-yet blooded team, that from my couch seat looks like they’re trying….well
most times. We have a coach who can in the next years install into the W’s the Crusader look of confidence & structure.
They’ve been pipped in the 60th minutes onward to lose game, but were in them until then.
They are a solid number 3 in world ranking (and can and will beat NH teams this November), unless you put Wales & Ireland ahead of them who have’nt played a Test since early this year…………what a joke!
We need good publicity, good performance……..doesn’t have to be great, just trying, and some postives otherwise witth all the negatives we become as neurotic as some fans across the Tasman where outcome of every game risks a suicide.
Jools-USA
Andrew Logan said | September 30th 2009 @ 7:06am | Report comment
Hi Jools,
I’m all for looking at the positives, but if you read the article again, it’s not really about the Wallabies at all. I think one of the biggest problems we face is exactly that – that the ARU is almost completely focused on rugby at the elite level. What I am asking for is an organisation which would cater for the grassroots and be run by grassroots people.
Hammer said | September 30th 2009 @ 8:42am | Report comment
Gee Jools with a top down view like that you should apply for a position at the ARU
Jets said | September 30th 2009 @ 6:42am | Report comment
Very interesting reading Andrew. I see some huge benefits to what you are saying and would happily join such an organisation
One of the good things that has come out of Queensland rugby this year, there weren’t many, was the City v Country weekend held at Ballymore last weekend. 6 games were played between various teams, open and age grade, selected from Queensland Country, Suburban and Brisbane. As a result of this merit teams were selected at each level. While only 1,520 attended the matches, it was the first time this has been held, it hopefully will grow over the next few years and become a great chance for players to be seen at a higher level.
If events like this were held in every state then a National championships could be held every year for a week at a host location (regional centre) then it would provide players with a chance to show there wears on a higher stage and would be a great tool for spreading the message of grassroots rugby. A conference on growing the game could be part of the program as hopefully a large number of key stakeholders of the game would attend. It would give anyone who wanted to attend a chance to voice there views on where the game is going and how it is going to get there.
Anyway that’s just my idea.
Below are the results of the games played at Ballymore, more info can be found at the QRU website http://www.qru.com.au
QCRU Hutchinson Builders Country Heelers 40 (T Cox 2, T Kearney, M McDonald, K Beakey, L Holtsbaum tries, A Hollis 5 cons) bt Brisbane XV 33 (M Bond 2, T White, R Kingi, U Maninoa tries, D Murphy 4 cons) at Ballymore. Crowd 1,520
Qld Suburban 32 (P Croucamp 2, J Myers, P Kavanagh, J Tupea tries, Tupea 2 cons, pen) bt Outback Barbarians 7 (M Howse try, L Lorenz con)
Brisbane U19 48 (D Shipperley 2, P Fou 2, D Burns 2, M Arvier, S Williamson tries, D Burns 2 cons, M Feaunati 2 cons bt QR Qld Country U19 1st XV 17 (A Matalau, W Evans tries, M King 2 cons, pen)
QR Qld Country U19 2nd XV 39 (T Saunders 2, A Kris 2, T Nathan, M Kenealy, M Dreyer tries, J Postle 2 cons) bt Qld Suburban U19 15 (L Leeming, S Cocks tries, H Powell pen, R Fox con)
Brisbane Junior U17 36 (G Anderson, G O’Hare, S Roberts, J Horomia, S Filianga tries, C Matahere 3 cons, pen, G O’Hare con) bt Qld Junior Country U17 12 (T Lolback, H Hawker tries, D Taumata con)
Qld Junior Country U15 13 (A Dorante try, 2 pens, M Tanzer con) bt Brisbane Junior U15 5 (G Beveridge try)
Andrew Logan said | September 30th 2009 @ 7:20am | Report comment
Jets,
Re your comment “If events like this were held in every state then a National championships could be held every year for a week at a host location (regional centre) then it would provide players with a chance to show there wares on a higher stage and would be a great tool for spreading the message of grassroots rugby. A conference on growing the game could be part of the program as hopefully a large number of key stakeholders of the game would attend. It would give anyone who wanted to attend a chance to voice there views on where the game is going and how it is going to get there.”
I couldn’t agree more! These are exactly the sort of initiatives that I think Rugby Australia could run off its own bat rather than constantly pleading with the ARU to do it.
The Rugby Australia National Conference….now you’re talking. Good God – the owners of the game might actually get to have some input….
tradegen said | September 30th 2009 @ 8:03am | Report comment
I have a colleague that works quite closely with a sponsor of the Wallabies and just prior to a recent test match this sponsor wanted to organise a coaching clinic for school aged kids to promote rugby and their product. This was at no cost to the ARU! All they had to do was provide some development officers. The ARU refused and said that it wasn’t one of their priorities but the sponsor was more than welcome to provide the clinic by themselves.
It is this arrogance and the disjointed effort from all parties involved from the national body down to the provincial bodies that is severely holding rugby back. so bring on rugby Australia and help bring a voice to all people involved with the game!
Ruck and Maul said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:58pm | Report comment
Nothing has changed in 20 years…THEY DON’T CARE.
Pete said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:05pm | Report comment
We’ll I’m sick of eating ‘cake’.. lets storm the fort….
Ruck and Maul said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:23pm | Report comment
Might as well…thats how RUGBY LEAGUE got there…
sheek said | September 30th 2009 @ 8:11am | Report comment
Andrew,
Beautifully written article, perhaps too good to be shared only by the Roar folk.
I’m all the things you say about rugby fans – frustrated & angry; frustrated & worried; frustrated & sad.
But now I’ve moved on to a more frustrating state (not for me, but those rugby fans left behind) – I’m just mightily pissed off.
The Wallabies are struggling. It’s obvious there’s a lack of overall quality & depth. And why are the basic skills of leading players so poor?
The Shute GF, according to Spiro, while an exciting game, exhibited a poor set of basic skills from Randwick especially? Why are premier rugby club players playing skills so poor?
You mention the lack of material available to juniors – players, coaches, equipment, back-up support. No wonder we can’t find players & coaches for the present, let alone the future!
All the money raised in rugby seems to go to feeding the elite 130 or so professional players & the high fliers at the ARU. The current Australian rugby model could be described by one of those futuristic models enclosed by a dome with desolation all around outside.
This is Australian rugby – inside the domed city are the 130 professional players & coaches, & administrators all on big money. All around outside them, lies the desolation of the remainder of Australian rugby, crying out for sustenance.
With respect to the elite Wallabies, if they are not the problem, then the people who allow them to continue with their huge contracts at the expense of the rest of the game, are then surely to blame?
There was a song long ago (was it by Bob Seiger) about a ’ship of fools’ sailing towards a vicious storm & certain destruction. Ship of Fools – the once good ship of Australian rugby!
Ruck and Maul said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:09pm | Report comment
Sheek…always the whinner…It seems you have not been involved with a Grass Roots Rugby Club…just talking through your rear end…OR ARE YOU THE JAMES BOND OF THE ARU.
Campbell Watts said | October 2nd 2009 @ 4:54pm | Report comment
Sorry R&M
Is your exceedingly long and poorly spelled post above not also whinning?
Let’s not be too judgemental hey?
oliver said | September 30th 2009 @ 8:20am | Report comment
Andrew and Jets,
Great to throw ideas out there. Even if some of them may not work ,if you come up with suggestions and alternative thinking if 1 out of 10 ideas stick then you have still progressed from where you were.
An independent body with “shareholder ” input might help my 2 bugbears.
a) rugby doesn’t have the media scrutiny except for forums like the Roar that other sports may have. So there is not the level of public accountability that is needed. We must keep up the battle on the Roar to bring to light what is going on behind the scenes and to make the Directors of our “company” accountable
b) when Rugby first went professional I thought that we were in the box seat to expand given the business background the games administrators had. How naive! From Concord Oval to today we have the same culture in place that favours CEO incompetence with million dollar payouts. The underlings (the players ) are selected on a performance basis
but I can’t see the same with the so called experienced businessmen running our organisation. Let’s make them accountable.
Andrew Logan said | September 30th 2009 @ 8:25am | Report comment
Thanks Oliver – I like your attitude. I too thought we were in the box seat to expand once professionalism came in, but after 15 years or so it seems that all professionalism has done is take the focus away from the base of the game. Development is minimal. Profile of rugby at the grassroots is minimal. It’s about time for a DIY approach to rugby development in Australia.
sp8s4me said | September 30th 2009 @ 8:22am | Report comment
Hi, I would like to suggest an alternative ARC. We can build on the following our S14 teams already enjoy and extend this to the country areas. This comp would run after the S14. The current franchises would particapate in a home and away format with a finals series. This comp would consist of 2nd tier players with Wallabies coming and going as commitments and national coaches see fit – as currently happens in NZ with the ABs and the ANZ cup. The franchises would also field age group teams (u21 u18 etc) in their own comps. These games would be played primarily in areas not visited by the S14, and hopefully on free to air TV to bring rugby to the general public.
Grimmace said | September 30th 2009 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Great Article,
I’ve metioned her in the past that I’m involved, with possibly the western most club in NSW. We are continually frustrated with the level of support we receive from the eliete level- none. We are in a position to really capatilise here as league is struggling, (not to say we’re not). We only found out who our development officer is a few months ago.
Last year the NRL sent theri players to places like this, we had a few here. I e-mailed the people a the NSWRU about doing the same thing. They, as expected did not get back to me. The only people pushing Rugby at the schools here are the teachers involved with our club.
Country Rugby has been dismissed in artices before (I haven’t seen any on the Roar) as we currently have no Wallabies or S14 players. The reason for this is if you’re any good, you go to Sydney to have a crack, its how it is and we accecpt that. There are quite a few Wallabies and S14 players who grew up in country Australia though.
Before we get excited about a national comp (which I whole heatedly support), can those who see us as unworthy to be told what Lote did, get some people out here to at least support the great work being done by volunteers. We own the game, they should work for us. My exectutive fees totaled a carton of New and 4 steak sangas this year.
We are running a 10 a side tournamenr here this weekend. We’ve managed to attract teams from as far away as Adelaide and Brisbane. The CEO of Country Rugby a the NSWRU didn’t even reply to his invite.
If something isn’t done soon, the ARU’s going to miss us. Bring on Rugby Australia, where do I pay my subscription.
Andrew Logan said | September 30th 2009 @ 8:41am | Report comment
Grimmace,
I’m guessing you’re involved with Cobar Rugby Club – good luck with the Tens this weekend! I saw your invitation via email and the ground looks 100%, so I’m glad you’ve got good numbers turning up to play.
I would have come out but I have been focusing the last couple of months on organising the Silver Foxes charity team to play in Griffith last weekend. It was bloody good fun as I’m sure your weekend will be. There’s nothing like country rugby.
Cheers…
sheek said | September 30th 2009 @ 8:37am | Report comment
Whether or not the average rugby fan likes the idea, we are in competition with the other football codes. Australia is a brutally tough market for the footy codes.
Australian football (AFL), association football (soccer, A-League), rugby league (NRL) & rugby union (S14) are all competing with each other for players, fans, sponsors, merchandise, media space, etc, etc, etc, in a limited population market.
There is an argument about, which I agree with, that the market may not be able to sustain 4 footy codes. Guess which code right now, is the weakest link?
The argument continues that the strong codes will get stronger, the weak perish. Players will gravitate to the stronger codes, fans will gravitate to the stronger codes, sponsors will gravitate to the stronger codes, media will most naturally gravitate to the stronger codes.
Some rugby fans, Sydney/Brisbane premier clubs & administrators have often fought against the concept of a national comp. But if Australian rugby doesn’t have something to throw up against the AFL, NRL & A-League, we’re going to sink beneath the waves in due course.
It’s not about being better than the other codes, but certainly about being the best we can be.
The 4 major youth population growth areas in Australia, without consulting the bureau of statistics, are the greater west of Sydney; Central Coast; & Gold Coast running into south-west Brisbane. As a 5th area, probably the south-east suburbs of Melbourne.
Australian rugby is poorly represented in all these areas. Critically so. Probably criminally critically so as well!
Andrew Logan said | September 30th 2009 @ 8:43am | Report comment
Sheek,
I love your passion for the national comp, and there’s no doubt that it is a critical issue. With respect though, could I ask you to put the national comp aside for a second and give us your thoughts on the Rugby Australia concept? You’ve been involved with the game for as many years as anyone here, so your thoughts appreciated.
Cheers…
sheek said | September 30th 2009 @ 8:50am | Report comment
Sorry Andrew,
I didn’t respond directly to the Rugby Australia concept for a very simple reason.
It’s so bloody, bleeding obvious………………..!
Cheers (keep up the good work).
Andrew Logan said | September 30th 2009 @ 8:53am | Report comment
Excellent! You can be Rugby Australia Member #00001!
tradegen said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:44am | Report comment
Make me member 00002!
Invictus said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:09am | Report comment
00003!
Pete said | September 30th 2009 @ 7:55pm | Report comment
Count me in. Where do we start!?
Ruck and Maul said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:20pm | Report comment
SHEEK…prior to the 80’s AFL was known as VFL basically played in VICTORIA as in the name VFL.
Soccer,foosball, Wo#ball and what ever name you want to call it was a sport that no body cared.
Rugby was there before…with them in time and now is going with the Dodo…guess what our chairman Mr Oniel (Joey’s BOY) was there.
He is is back with RUGBY and as far as I’m concerned he is putting Rugby behind Crochet.
Ruck and Maul said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:31pm | Report comment
Exactly…the ARU, NSWRU and the rest thought that they had no competition.
Sat on their arses and got rear ended…HOW CAN YOU SIT THERE AND LET RUGBY LEAGUE TAKE OVER AS THE MAIN RUGBY SPORT IN AL ALL PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN the 70’s.
I suppose we can now say we can let the reps do their work to bring the sport back to where it was…grow a brain.
We are been bull##itted by the ARU (fu#ing reamed) and they are getting paid for it…
And we are talking crap to each other…
Campbell Watts said | October 2nd 2009 @ 5:01pm | Report comment
That certainly apears to be what you’re talking R&M!!
john roberts said | October 17th 2009 @ 5:01pm | Report comment
Australia Rugby is poorly represented in all those areas cause of the ARU not doing anything about it which they should but look at it this way AFL NRL those football codes on the international world scene it is said that this is where rugby ecilpses those codes on the world stage second only to soccer in the world as the two biggest football codes on the globe
Peteski said | September 30th 2009 @ 8:43am | Report comment
One might argue that there are certain Wallaby players that could benefit from a 7’s version of the ARC, such as learning how to catch/pass.
Personally I thought there was nothing wrong with the ARC. Tribalism takes time to develop as does sponsorship. What was a significant loss maker in its first year should have been persevered with for the good of developing Super 15 standard rugby players.
Maybe a national 7’s comp could bring TV dollars, sponsorship and foster some BASIC SKILLS in the players!
Brett McKay said | September 30th 2009 @ 8:45am | Report comment
Great stuff Andrew, there’s a lot of good ideas here. As I wrote yesterday, we have to come to point where the only way is forward; we can only continue death-riding and then lamenting the Wallabies for so long. The Uni-Randwick GF on Sunday was a great display of passionate rugby, and both teams and their supporters showed all that’s great with the game. But there was also plenty of signs that it’s a big step from First Grade to Super Rugby, let alone Internationals.
I think it was to Sheek in the last few days that I said we have to get to a point re the National Comp where we stop saying we can’t afford to have it and start realising we can’t afford NOT to have it.
Wayne Smith’s article in The OZ yesterday was an interesting development. If the reported state-led constitutional shake-up amounts to anything, we may well start seeing movement in the directions the games needs in Australia.
reds fan said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:12am | Report comment
Love it. A couple of things about its formation.
1. Ensure the organisation is positioned correctly with established unions. It needs to be seen as a partner not a competitor. The QRU for all its faults is doing wonderful things outside of professional rugby (as mentioned above by Jet), so in this instance setting up “rival” programs would be counterproductive. Co-operation would be the ideal. Whereas when it comes to NSWRU it seems things aren’t so rosey and RA would need to take the lead.
2. However, it must also write into its “mission statement” (oh crikey the first corporate buzzword!!) its own independence. It must be free to speak the views of its members, without fear of loss of co-operation from established unions. Of course diplomacy would be needed, with “going to the media” to vent used only as a last resort.
Advantages I see.
1. I think it would introduce a new voice to the public conversation regarding rugby. Currently its union v union, or RUPA v ARU. Rugby Australia would bring a new voice that is unencumbered by money concerns and vested interest.
2. It would be a great outlet for supporters who for whatever reason aren’t members of rugby clubs. This is very important, because if we want the game to grow we need to accept that not every supporter is going to have a club background.
3. It gives a great outlet to supporters who want to do something but are unable to get out and do the hands on volunteering for whatever reason. For their $20 a year they can fund the equipement and costs needed to promote the game at the grassroots level.
I actually think a national comp should be a long term aim and be a declared desire of the organisation, however I would hate to see it as the main focus. There is plenty of politics aroudn a national comp, and I’d hate to see RA sink into that mire and then be unable to do its other work.
reds fan said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:16am | Report comment
Regarding my comment above. The “$20 a year” is my guess, not Andrew’s.
Andrew Logan said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:22am | Report comment
I was thinking more like $50-$100, but hey, we can discuss that at the founders meeting.
5000 members at $100, gives you a starting warchest of $500,000. Match that with corporate sponsorship and you have $1M to get kicked off……Penrith Rugby Club started a schools rugby tournament for about 5 or 10k a few years back so you could do a lot with a mill.
Andrew Logan said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:19am | Report comment
Reds fan – I agree with all of your points. Rugby Australia does not need to be a rival at all and it should be formed under an ethos of partnership wherever possible. It should also remain ready to call unions to account where required, but I don’t see it as a political association (if that’s possible in Australian rugby).
I see it as a doing organisation, where people can get involved and make tangible things happen. Coaching clinics, tournaments, coaching and referee training and player skill development. Raise funds to buy equipment for schools and clubs, and also help teams with touring.
Leave pro rugby to the professionals and stop whinging about them not helping the grassroots. The grassroots needs to reclaim the game and help itself.
reds fan said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:20am | Report comment
Bingo!
Andrew Logan said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:24am | Report comment
Is that the slogan?
“Rugby Australia – Reclaim The Game”
reds fan said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:59am | Report comment
If Rugby Australia is laready registered perhaps the “Real ARU”?
Rickety Knees said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:23am | Report comment
Great article Andrew!
I have written articles in and around this subject for the past couple of years. Having watched the dross served up by the Waratahs this season which has continued on with the Wallabies, I too am feeling mightily pissed off. The treatment of the VRU has been appalling. The ARU growth model is top down and unsustainable – it is a house of cards waiting to collapse. I shudder to think what next season might bring.
Something has to be done and we have to start somewhere!
Andrew Logan said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:26am | Report comment
So you’re in Rickety?
How’s $100 sound as a subscription fee? For that you get your membership, a “Rugby Australia – Grassroots Rugby” t-shirt, half-price entry into all club games across Australia, and a discount voucher for Rebel Sport, as well as a Rugby Australia newsletter to tell you where your money is going.
Invictus said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:15am | Report comment
I proposed kicking in $100 to save rugby the other day on a different thread. So count me in.
Come up with a half decent logo and you may actually generate some cash from merchandise sales.
reds fan said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:44am | Report comment
I think that if we are truly going grass roots $100 is far too much. I earn six figures so it doesn’t bother me personally, but I’m thinking of the average Australian wage… what is it? $45k presently? parents who are already paying for club registration etc might think they are paying twice to fund rugby.
I think a tiering option should be given. Then people can donate according to their means.
$40 and you get to vote, get a membership card, and feel good.
$60 – you get to vote, get a membership card, discounts and feel good
$80 – vote, card, discounts, t-shirt… etc..
although i guess you’d want as many people wearing t-shirts as possible to spread the word.
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:51am | Report comment
Reds fan,
The t shirt costs, so it isn’t really “free”. If you increase the membership to get a free T Shirt, you are probably only getting a few bucks more to the organisation.
discounts and stuff need deals, which takes time. You need to prove to the doscunters you can provide customers to get it. First things first. Plus at the end of the day people are joining to help support rugby and organise things, not get a discount and T shirt. Those things can come later.
The issue is what does the money do? Cover costs to run the organisation, which then lobbies, and provides volunteer labour and a central organising point for grass roots? Or actually provides funding for events rather than just lobbying and seeking sponsorship?
If the former, you can have lower rates, and $30 or so is probably fine. if the latter, then $100 is more like it.
However, even if the latter, you could have 2 tiers. Say silver ($30) for basic member, and gold for sponsor/supporter, where they are paying more as those funds help fund things. you can also sort out voting rights and so forth, and if they differ.
reds fan said | September 30th 2009 @ 11:04am | Report comment
yeah i realise the t-shirt cost issue… thats why i didn’t include it in the “benefits”.
my background is in product management, so i’m acutely aware of understanding target markets, demographics, spending habits etc.
My main point was that $100 could price people out of contributing, which would be counterproductive to the ethos and purpose of the org. You only set “high” price points to imbue a product with a sense of exclusivity etc…
So the basic entry level buys a vote. The higher price points would need to provide something extra to a member, whilst ensuring the marginal profit/donation is greater than the marginal cost/extras.
Just some thoughts.
Invictus said | September 30th 2009 @ 12:52pm | Report comment
How about a unit trust? 1 unit = 1 vote = $20
That way people could contribute what they felt best able to afford. You could also have a free membership either as a trial or as an option for those who aren’t “joiners”.
Rickety Knees said | September 30th 2009 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
Yep – count me in
Vented Relief said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:24am | Report comment
Great idea Loges. I’m definitely on board. We don’t have to put up with this. We don’t have to feel helpless in a game that should make us feel welcome and demand grass roots interaction.
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Rugby Australia is already taken as a business name registered in NSW.
http://www.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bin/gns030c?state_number=BN97767182&juris=2&hdtext=&srchsrc=1
We’ll have to come up with another name. Or perhaps register it as an Association with that name (which is how you would probably do it anyway, rather than a Pty Ltd).
Andrew, if you are serious about this, I am willing to put some time in to try to get it going (my skills as a lawyer might be useful, and I have helped set up an amateur sports association years ago). If a few of the smart bodies on this site were similarly willing, it might be worth exploring. However, in the long run it is a lot of work, and needs a network of willing bodies Australia wide.
What you need is to invite the real people behind the log ins on this site to make contact in the real world!!! Via email as a start.
Working Class Rugger said | September 30th 2009 @ 3:34pm | Report comment
Well, as of 2011 if all goes to plan I could offer my services as a Development officer over here in WA. I really hope people are viewing this in a serious manner. It’s a great idea. There will be three member’s of my family who would sign up for the premium package tomorrow if it was possible.
Ruck and Maul said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:38pm | Report comment
I will volunteer my services…as said previous been involved with Grass roots club for 20 years…and now self retiree.
Wilso said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:38am | Report comment
Loges, when do we stop talking about it? Hurry up and give me a date and a place – I have a busy month or two ahead but do not like the idea of missing out on the foundation meeting.
If good old bush outlets like Tenterfield and Corowa seek to claim Federation, then let’s find a good rugby town in the bush and get on with it.
[And while we are supporting grassroots, get a couple of kids singing the anthem at the Tests. Last weekend I listened to a couple of youngsters do it accapella and I haven't sung so loud in ages.]
Actually, I would like to get the ARU email address and have the link to this article sent from every exasperated rugby fan around the world – a new age petition.
LeftArmSpinner said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:39am | Report comment
I am happy to stand as a director, I bring media background, (Rights negotiation) senior management expertise in turnarounds and set ups, and finance skills.
mick h said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:48am | Report comment
I’m in,
I’m a builder, I can build us a makeshift clubhouse with the best grassroots bar in the country. And Loges I even played with you in Subbies many years ago!
Well done, bring it on
Andrew Logan said | September 30th 2009 @ 11:47am | Report comment
FJ – how are you mate!! You are hereby appointed Rugby Australia Chief Chippy!
tradegen said | September 30th 2009 @ 9:52am | Report comment
I too would like to be involved. I have 10 years experience in sales and marketing and have a true passion for rugby, particularly at the grass roots level!
Mr cheese said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:05am | Report comment
Working Class Rugger,
why can’t they try to adopt some of what the RFU has done over here ? The circumstances are different between the two countries, I know, but 90% of sports coverage in England goes to football ( soccer ) so rugby has to work hard to compete.
Why don’t they invite John Eales to telephone the English Rugby Football Union and ask their advice ? It can’t be rocket science: promote the sport in schools and teach people the rules. Quite a few friends of mine don’t know the difference between League and Union. If you teach them the laws of the game and take a few rugby balls to schools, you make an impact.
How difficult is that ?
Working Class Rugger said | September 30th 2009 @ 3:37pm | Report comment
Mr Cheese
It not. And thats the point of this thread and its proposed organisation. To go out and get dirty in the name of Rugby.
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:08am | Report comment
Talk’s cheap. let’s ride this wave of enthusiasm.
Andrew, you started this revolution. I can understand no one wants to start putting their email addresses on this thread to get in contact. Either we use Andrew as a central contact to try to turn this goodwill into a working group of volunteers, or someone has to set up a gmail address to get everyone to email their interest and start the ball rolling.
(finds everyone looking at him … )
Invictus said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:13pm | Report comment
As I said further down – people are welcome to use my email if it helps – ah71@mail.org
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:12am | Report comment
“Grass Roots Rugby Australia”?
The organisation and aims are more important, but the name helps focus and explain easily what it is.
Those in marketing – ideas?
Working Class Rugger said | September 30th 2009 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
“Rugby Unlimited”. The Unlimited would stand for the unlimited growth opportunities for the game.
Pippinu said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:13am | Report comment
“The point is that after 14 years of professionalism, the ARU, which was once a custodian and servant of rugby in a federal system where the States ‘own’ the game, has forgotten its role. ”
The fact that the States ‘own’ the game is a big problem.
Where did the AFL come from? It came from an expanded VFL which basically bludgeoned the other aussie rules states into submission.
Very similar with the NRL (some different twists in the plot there).
Now lets look at rugby.
The Canberra Kookaburras joined the Sydney comp for a few season – but they were too successful – so they’re turfed out.
Then Tuggers join the Brisbane comp for a few years (all at their own expense), then they’re turfed out.
Does anyone see a trend here?
The States have always worked against expansion, improving the quality, jumping into the unknown.
They made their bed long ago.
Ruck and Maul said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:53pm | Report comment
Fully agree…
JimmyJam said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:14am | Report comment
I’ve just posted the link to my FB page….. good opportunity to get this in front of a lot of people. I’m in btw. Bring it on!
Invictus said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:20am | Report comment
I’m happy for people to use my email as an initial contact point (its a free web one anyway) – ah71@mail.org
Daniel J said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:20am | Report comment
I didn’t have to finish this article, i just want to say thanks for showing some initiative, of course it would probably never happen at least you are providing some constructive alternative which is awesome. *high five*
El Capitan said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:25am | Report comment
I’ll be in as well Andrew. Just seeing the response from people here on the site shows that at grassroot level rugby is still alive, and as you indicated $100 for a season membership is not that hard to afford.
Unfortunantly my skill are not up there with Sheek and LAS. I’m a junior Project Manager, but have a good experiences with cost estimates and Construction Management.
Wilso said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:39am | Report comment
Folks, this is clearly a concept that has support.
At the moment, however, it is probably confined somewhat to those of us following the Roar. Can I suggest that it is an idea that needs to be circulated far and wide (via Facebook, email etc etc) so we can gauge what sort of interest is out there to get behind it. Critical mass and momentum will get it off the ground – the more people involved / attracted, the better the chance of succeeding. It is obvious that there has been a lot of commentary along these lines in recent times so there are obviously others who share the views Loges has put forward.
I think the best thing to do is advertise the link to this article (like JimmyJam has done on FB) and get people to read it AND register their support by commenting.
Let it percolate for a few days and see what it brews up beyond our readership. I’m sure Loges will probably then seek to establish a central contact point and we can give it wings.
Great to see the support and enthusiasm!
Wilso
JF said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:41am | Report comment
This is the article I have been waiting for! I’m excited!
I have been involved in country rugby for many years and have – like every other rugby supporter in the country, become dissillousioned with the current admistration.
I’m in for $100 and also put my hand up for any volunteer duties the new administration may require of me. Viva Revolucion!
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:55am | Report comment
Grassroots Rugby is available as a business name. As is Grass Roots Rugby.
Rugby Direct?
Or the Rugby Union Supporters Association, which is about as uninspiring as RUPA ….
reds fan said | September 30th 2009 @ 11:06am | Report comment
Would members be known as “Rooters”? hehe. T-shirts could say. Rooting. Since 2009.
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 11:08am | Report comment
Rooting For Rugby Since 2009. I like it.
reds fan said | September 30th 2009 @ 11:18am | Report comment
A wonderful double-entendre that gives it the “fun” we all believe grass roots rugby should have.
Invictus said | September 30th 2009 @ 12:10pm | Report comment
Perhaps not for the kids T-shirts…..
Working Class Rugger said | September 30th 2009 @ 3:54pm | Report comment
Rugby Union Supporters Assoc. Seems appropriate.
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 5:08pm | Report comment
WCR, I think Rugby Unions Supporters’ Association is too narrow for what the aims are. That sounds more like a lobby group for rugby fans, whereas this is more aimed at being a grass roots support organisation for rugby, also getting involved in administration, sponsorship, etc.
However, that title would be easier to get traction with the general public, for whom Rugby Australia or Grass Roots Rugby would lead to more of a “What are they” response. RUSA suggests part of what it is – supporters in an association, clearly outside the usual admin.
GARMO said | September 30th 2009 @ 11:13am | Report comment
Hi all
I have been a long time watcher of the Rugby Blog on Roar. And have finally taken the step to join.
Andrew, great article. I feel that this Grass roots approach is exactly what Rugby needs to promote the game.
Could I also put in a suggestion for a newsletter that could be in electronic version. Schools Rugby is where we
can battle the other codes for player numbers. Lets make it part of it.
reds fan said | September 30th 2009 @ 11:21am | Report comment
yeah electronic is definitely the way. much cheaper too.
(although exemptions should be given to those over 60yo who just cant be arsed learning about computers. you earn that right at that age.)
GARMO said | September 30th 2009 @ 11:31am | Report comment
Yeah Reds Fan.
Especially with all the kiddies in year 9 and 10 getting their new netbooks form Uncle Kevin this year. What an opportunity!
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 11:22am | Report comment
I think the mission statement would be something like:
“Providing co-ordination and support for grass roots rugby, like the ARU and state unions should be ….”
Might need to be a bit more diplomatically put though.
Sam Taulelei said | September 30th 2009 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
Great ideas and initiative Andrew. Great to see so many supportive comments as well.
Bay can I suggest this as an alternative mission statement
Rugby Australia – “How we want the game to be, pulling the rug out under rugby and putting the fun back into funding”
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
Don’t know about pulling the rug out …
Actually, how about just “Bring back rucking!!”.
Sorry, wrong lobby group. That’s the rules changes one ….
But perhaps we can merchandise T shirts with that on it…
Invictus said | September 30th 2009 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
Rugby of the people, for the people, by the people.
Rickety Knees said | September 30th 2009 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
Bay – I love “Fugby it’s a rucking good game:”
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:00pm | Report comment
Nah, I always love that old chestnut “Rugby, good fun involving 2 hookers going 40 minutes each way.” Not one for the kids though.
Monty said | September 30th 2009 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
Great article Andrew! I hope the responses youve got so far have convinced you that there is the support out there and you should go for it. Im in for $100.
Rickety Knees said | September 30th 2009 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
Andrew – is the name “Rugby Australia” available?
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 12:59pm | Report comment
Rickety, check above, I already posted on this. it ain’t.
Rickety Knees said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:03pm | Report comment
Thanks Bay – I look forward to having a beer with you ….. one day
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:06pm | Report comment
After the inaugural meeting of Grass Roots Rugby Australia. Some time soon hopefully.
In the tradition of all great sporting associations, it should be held in (or near) a pub. it is rugby after all. But also providing an excuse to go back there, and an excuse for the wives (“just going to another association meeting love!!”).
Rickety Knees said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:20pm | Report comment
Absolutey – thankfully my wife is well acclimatised to the ways of a Rugby nut!
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
Actually, Grass Roots Rugby is growing on me. After all the acronym is GRR.
Grrrrr……
Invictus said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
I like it!
Rickety Knees said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:21pm | Report comment
Me too Grrrrrr!
Invictus said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
It’s a bit like a secret handshake…..Grrrrrrrrr!
Rickety Knees said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:31pm | Report comment
and perhaps a T Shirt could read “Grass Roots Rugby” and underneath “laying a foundation for the good of the game”
GARMO said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:07pm | Report comment
I guess that’s what the next post will be be. What shall we call the new grass roots organisation????
G
Bill said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
I’m in for a $100 membership.
Getting a Facebook page up and running should be a priority once a name is settled on, this will help circulate the message across Australia.
PastHisBest said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
Andrew, terrific article. I’m in. For membership and any volunteer work required. Senior management, project management, sales. Whatever the hell you require really. I’m pumped.
When and where is the initial AGM?
Can some web guru knock up a registration site?
BTW I’ve sent this link off to the President of our subbies club and he’ll forward it on to our players.
“First we’ll take Manhattan…”
Working Class Rugger said | September 30th 2009 @ 4:02pm | Report comment
PastHisBest
“BTW I’ve sent this link off to the President of our subbies club and he’ll forward it on to our players.” Fanastic. That is what need to be done. If any other Roarer have contacts with subbies Clubs then they should contact them. Most clubs have emailing list of player’s and officials these days. Even if no one has efforts should be made to help spread the word. This could be the beginning of something very significant. And all from a bunch of loyal Rugby poster’s on a website.
oliver said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:26pm | Report comment
Andrew,
From my earlier response to you, you’d understand that I’m not knocking your concept but just some clarification.
Would you see this as an administrative body to run all of rugby in Aust. except for the national and s14 sides?
Secondly you may have some inside knowledge. What would a contracted Waratah player be doing today? This minute? For that matter what would a player in the Wallaby squad be doing now? To say that a coach needs the players 5 working days a week ,to me is rubbish. On tour, sure, but in the off season get them out into the fresh air into the schools and clubs and clear their heads of the rarified air of the gym. Open their eyes to another world away from their limited existence and use them to promote the game. If they already do this on a regular basis I stand corrected.
Andrew Logan said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
Hi Oliver,
It’s a good question and one I should be clear on. I don’t see Rugby Australia as an administrative body at all. The existing infrastructure would continue to take care of everything they already do.
Rugby Australia would be a fully independent body which would drive development programs in schools and clubs, as well as supporting touring and representative matches at the non-professional level, and supporting tournaments and other grassroots rugby initiatives eg National Conference.
Think the NRMA for rugby.
Cheers…
Invictus said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
With a big enough following it could also be used as a stick to beat some sense into the existing structures when they try to do something stupid. The reebok jersey for example.
Little black riding hood said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:30pm | Report comment
Andrew, It is great to see so many positive responses to your article. I am involved in the management of the All Blacks Supporters Club in Sydney, an ardent supporter of the game of rugby, and would be willing to assist in any way possible. I for one have often wondered how long it would be before there is an alternative awakening to the current crisis in Australian rugby. It became apparent to me a couple of years ago that there were changes needed in the guidance of rugby, not just in Australia but internationally. Some R.U administrations have become lost causes, and entrapped, fighting for ego’s, professional sports dollars, TV rights, all to politicized, and not listening to the people – the “rugby followers.” We are the ones who put bums on seats, and support rugby at our schools, our province, state, or country, through the ups and downs. It is high time that “we” had a vote on the likes of the ELVs (as a hypothetical), or any one of the many glaring issues that need urgent address. And a solid voice in the future direction of rugby.
I can be contacted at- contact@absupporters.com
Invictus said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:34pm | Report comment
Damn right – it’s our money, after all.
Giri said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
Long time reader and first time poster. Great article and comments. Kudos. I be more than happy to join up.
Blue Sue said | September 30th 2009 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
Can I be female member #1 or is membership only open to blokes?
Any good rugby club / organisation needs some female representation to take the “testosterone out of the equation”sometimes!
If being on the committee; running the canteen; organising coaching clinics; standing in mud on the sidelines; driving wet, smelly, muddy boys for thousands of kilometres; being abused by Kiwis at The Caketin; singing the anthem as loud as you can in a sea of red in Cardiff; drinking champagne from the Bledisloe cup; being totally frustrated with the negative shite written by Grumbles; being the wife of a coach or just regularly reading The Roar qualifies …. then I tick all the boxes.
Westy will be sad today, as yet another nail was hammered into the coffin of Rugby in Western Sydney with the announcement of a western Sydney A League team for 2011. Along with the AFL now targetting the area, the lack of any attention from the powers at be at ARU / NSWRU, will mean that Rugby will just drop right off the map.
It will be a very distant 4th.
It is just criminal when there are so many talented kids out in the west that will be lost to our game because nobody cares.
But, I will leave the rest of the lobbying to Westy, because he does it better than anyone else.
reds fan said | September 30th 2009 @ 2:04pm | Report comment
Can’t say I speak for the yet to be formed organisation but I doubt there would be any discrimination based on gender.
Indeed my favourite rugby moment from this year was watching the Australian Womens Sevens take out the world title. I would think this organisation would be about growing rugby for both sexes.
Invictus said | September 30th 2009 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
So long as you’re passionate about rugby you can be male/female/neuter or otherwise, IMHO…..
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 2:12pm | Report comment
Right, I have started a facebook group called Rugby Australia.
Much as I loath facebook, at this stage it would appear to be an appropriate starting point ….
Invictus said | September 30th 2009 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
4 members already……
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 2:54pm | Report comment
Elvis (Andrew Logan) has entered the building (Facebook) …
Adrian Musolino said | September 30th 2009 @ 2:58pm | Report comment
Good idea. I’m in.
While you lot are at it feel free to join the Roar group – http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49559631399
Rob said | September 30th 2009 @ 4:40pm | Report comment
When your organisation is up and running and when we are proud members, I’m sure my mates and I (we are in our 50’s ) will be more than happy to help run/staff/cook/serve etc at the Dubbo schoolboys carnival or the annual Qld Country vs NSW Country clash at wherever (because with a grassroots push these will happen) and I’m equally sure that we will reward ourselves with some refreshing ales at any of the fine establishments on offer.
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 4:59pm | Report comment
It’ a joke there’s no such game, with the ARS gone too.
One thing to look at pushing for.
Harry Wombat said | September 30th 2009 @ 4:49pm | Report comment
I hate to be the wowser here with all the enthusiasm being shown, and by the way happy to kick in $100 to join, but to get at the schools you need some damn good lead ins. Principles of primary schools are notorious for knocking back rugby coaching as it is considered a dangerous sport and secondly if you get the chance you are going to need coaches able to teach children during school time. I am all for the idea of taking the sport out to the country, the U14 NSW State Championships were held in Orange this year and everyone involved was impressed with the enthusiasm shown by the towns folk, if this helps to spread the word. I would also like to add there needs to be a water tight consitution so those with a political agenda will not be able to hijack the group, aka Sydney Juniors.
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 4:58pm | Report comment
Harry, I kind of see GRR/RA fulfilling a facilitator/Rotary type role with schools and juniors, helping provide an overarching organisations to help provide what needs to be provided.
All the coaches at shcools I have talked to are crying out for help, and complain about the lack of support from the unions. As such, I suspect the “in” will be talking to the coaches rather than the principals. They can then do the “internal” work to egt the principal on side, at which point the drawbridge goes down and the castle is ours ….
The constitution is always the bugbear, open enough to ensure representation and democracy, but tight enough to stop branch stacking ….
Working Class Rugger said | September 30th 2009 @ 5:02pm | Report comment
Harry
I’d imagine a constitution would be a must. Such an organisation must be free of political agenda from outside influences. As for school Principals viewing Rugby as a dangerous sport. There has been RL in Primary Schools for as long as I can recall. For a Prinicpal to dismiss Rugby due to it contact nature is the very definition of hypocrisy.
For the organisation to achieve its goals of reaching school a very strong development, kit and assistance program would have to be devised. Such a program would have to not only educate the students about the game but thier Parents and Teacher’s aswell. All of this is achievable but alot of work will be required to do so.
The development program would need to be followed up by an impressive presentation. Judging from some of the qualification of those on this site, I think it could be achieved.
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 5:04pm | Report comment
WCR, I think the key on issues like development is not to re-invent the wheel. A large part of it will be assesing what the state unions and clubs are doing (which everyone seems to be in agreement isn’t enough) and then working with that and adding to it.
Working Class Rugger said | September 30th 2009 @ 5:59pm | Report comment
Hmmm… You’re probably right on that one. Perhaps the organisation should look at ways of better executing the existing programs. I seem to have become a little over excited about this prospect. For a long time, I have been behind a push to focus directly on grassroots (clubs and schools).
One thing I would like to see though is an ambitious set of long term goals. Too much of our current administration’s thinking lacks any real ambition and drive. Short term objectives should always be achievable, medium term objective should be realistic and long term should be ambitious. Something along the lines of doubling the current participation rate Nationally by say 2015.
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 6:15pm | Report comment
WCR, can I suggest you get in touch with WA Rugby and get as much detail and documentation and detail about development programs for schools, junior and club rugby in WA. Similarly for the ARU in WA. Approach them in the context of being where you are, and wanting to help grow rugby there. This should provide a base line to work off, in knowing what there is, how to use it, and what more is needed.
Similarly, all others seriously interested in this should do the same for their state union. I will make some basic enquiries with NSWRU, unless someone already has enough detail to advise.
I would also suggest WCR doing some research to work out the names and contact details of every senior, junior and schools team in WA and their contact details. Both because that is the recruiting base, and also who is the aim is to help and grow from.
Bay35Pablo said | September 30th 2009 @ 6:24pm | Report comment
NSWRU Development pages on the web site at:
http://www.nswrugby.com.au/DevelopmentRugby/RugbyDevelopment-HomePage/RugbyDevelopment-AnOverview.aspx
Mostly Motherhood statements. Let’s see if I can get a copy of the NSW Development Plan.
I suggest all serious persons familiarise themselves with their state’s development details ….
Working Class Rugger said | September 30th 2009 @ 6:41pm | Report comment
I already know who to talk to about that actually. I regularly recieve correspondence from him.
MM Fike said | September 30th 2009 @ 6:45pm | Report comment
Thanks for an outstanding article Andrew and thanks also to all those who have posted in this thread.
I’m still angry about the Wallabies (mostly) poor performances this season and also extremely disapponted at the state of rugby in Australia.
However being angry and disappointed isn’t going to solve anything.
The Rugby Australia is an excellent idea and I’ll be joining as soon as membership is available.
I’m an old geezer but I want to see a bright future for our great game.
Working Class Rugger said | September 30th 2009 @ 6:45pm | Report comment
Fortunately on RugbyWA’s website they list quite clearly the clubs and contact details.
mtngry said | September 30th 2009 @ 6:51pm | Report comment
I don’t understand why the ARS was dumped, it was brilliant for those of us not in cities, I could not care less about the shute shield, I want to see NSW country play good teams.
How expensive could it have been, the teams already existed ( not made up like the ARC).
I know of no one who saw the demise coming or was happy about it.
I have started thinking in terms of my local competition and my local rep sides, not NSW, sorry, THE WARATAHS anymore, they almost never play outside of Sydney anyway.
Working Class Rugger said | September 30th 2009 @ 7:04pm | Report comment
How about this slogan. Grass Roots Rugby – Getting down and dirty for the game.
The train said | September 30th 2009 @ 7:31pm | Report comment
Andrew
I love the idea. Rugby Australia I believe has merit as it would generate its funds itself and basically be self-sufficient. Having been a former employee of one of the Australian rugby franchises, I believe the biggest pitfall is the Development department relies solely on funds generated by the team of the franchise. So if the team loses the number of supporters entering the stadium decreases and therefore the first department that’s funding is cut is Development.
The AFL provide children with a backpack with water bottle ball etc so how can rugby franchises compete when funding is constantly being cut. So Rugby Australian could be a possible solution as it would be self-sufficient separate to other rugby franchises and the ARU and would not be at the mercy of a team and its wins or loses to generate funds.
I agree that more emphasis should be put on country areas with initiatives such as the Sliver Foxes game with several former wallabies playing. If you look at how many players we originally form country areas it is a large number. Looking at the Waratahs player list off the top of my head guys like Will Caldwell, Ben Robinson, Tom Cater, Luke Burgess, Beau Robinson, Ben McCalman who has just been selected in the wallabies squad.
I notice there has been allot of conversation on a correct model for the ARC. If you look at the Curry Cup in South Africa and the same in with the Air New Zealand cup they have 2 divisions. In SA they have a competition that runs during the Super 14 the Vodacom Cup and after the Super 14 the Curry cup starts. With the 2 divisions I know the Falcons lost their relegation match to the Leopards who are now in the top division of the Curry Cup once again. Why couldn’t Australian Club sides form a model similar to this? Obviously travel is an issue however solutions to this could be found in the form of draw structures and sponsorship.
Jack Petro said | September 30th 2009 @ 7:47pm | Report comment
Sorry boys but I think I just wasted 30 minutes of my life reading this dribble. I’m not too good with words but let’s just say, “Andrew Logan please go outside and take a good, hard look around”! Let’s face it, Pippinu got it right, we are number 4 on the pecking order and it’s because the States and their affiliates don’t want to entrust the direction of the game to the National body – I think we need whoever formed the AFL to drive the ARU, piss all the States and stakeholders to the side and start from scratch. For those of you who think that AFL are walking all over us because we sit on our hands, have a look at the dollars that they have compared to every other sport in Australia – their broadcasting rights are absolutely American in nature!
I live in regional NSW and love to be able to afford Austar/Foxtel to watch S14 but I’m forced out of my house if I want to watch; it’s not the Waratahs fault, it’s just the nature of the beast. All I can hope for is that when Super Rugby goes to 2 rounds (February to September) we may get a chance to get the recognition as a sport that we so duly deserve in Australia.
As for those who think our game isn’t safe – we’re the ONLY contact sport in Australia with an OH&S corse. If you right/read this blog, you probably would have / should have done one – SMARTRUGBY! Now tell me how “die-hard” you are? Do you really get out there and do things as they should or do you sit in the grandstand talking about how great it was in the 1970s and “oh how rugby has changed” … sob, sob!
That’s my rant … goodbye!
Pippinu said | September 30th 2009 @ 7:52pm | Report comment
I should correct you Jack – I actually didn’t say anything about the pecking order – but I did mention that you can’t improve things while the states control the game (and the recent restructure of soccer was precisely about that – getting the states out of the way).
Pete said | September 30th 2009 @ 8:41pm | Report comment
Jack,
So guess you’re not joining? Why p*ss on someone else’ parade and enthusiasm?
Andrew,
Great article. Count me in. Please don’t let this be just a post, please get this going. I don;t want to be let down by Rugby in Australia again. Its what I’ve been searching for. I’ve joined the Rugby Australia group on Facebook and forwarded to all my mates. I live in Sydney, just down the road from the ARU… I want to help out in any way I can.
Can I suggest that where ever the first meeting is it needs to be a place that allows kids. We need them to join as well. They’re the ones they who will spread the word through schools.
Bay35Pablo said | October 1st 2009 @ 8:41am | Report comment
Pete, I can already see the “Joeys” membership option – $5 or $10 (but no voting rights under 15 or 18 probably).
Along with the “Green” membership option of $30, and the “Gold” (or “Put your money where your mouth is”) option at $100.
I think they would have to be annual rather than one off fees, or keep the revenue flowing to pay for the good deeds. Apart from that, it would be a 100% volunteer organisation.
it might also need to have a bar on voting rights (but not being a member or attending) for people who are professional players or employed by the ARU or state unions. Ultimately, that will prevent any interference, and keep the body as a supporters and grass roots group. I’ll have to check whether and how that can be done in any constitution.
Ruck and Maul said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:58pm | Report comment
Finally a man of his word…like me first time and probably last…
Invictus said | September 30th 2009 @ 11:09pm | Report comment
If you don’t like the idea then state clearly your reasons why and then go somewhere else. Don’t keep posting to tell us all how bitter you are. Spare the rest of us from any more of your bile.
Jack Petro said | September 30th 2009 @ 8:00pm | Report comment
Sorry Pippinu. My sincerest apologies for misquoting! My point stand though – the ARU is not the problem – the States and their affiliates are!
Westy said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:51pm | Report comment
Junior infrastructure in the growth areas of Australia is essential. I have to look upon a structure that has only three junior rugby clubs covering Penrith / blue mountains and campbelltown in the penrith rugby district. yes they only have 3 clubs. Junior foorball has 47 junior clubs. one success has been an inter state high shool competition in the penrith district . The problem is not much place to go.
Yet we just signed up the Tongan schoolboy No 10. and jack complains about wests Tigers! Why not just run our juniors from the PI.
Parramatta have 8 proud junior clubs two of which Hills and Dundas are over 50 years old with roll calls of Price brothers Leeds and melrose all produced by local high schools. As jack petro states parramatta got its players from the first XV that existed in most western sydney High schools. We lost our foothold here and it was not due to pokies. Our stste high schools were the source of our players and we retrated. it was the greatest error made in rugby union in Australia,
I have to basically tolerate clubs who have no real interest in junior rugby development . West harbour do not have any junior clubs . they do have juniors and basically play their rep team against our junior clubs. Guess who wins and most of them come from Parramatta and penrith .sydney uni play games looking for junior rep sides and dicing off Southern districts juniors. I have northern suburbs coaches busing players from parramatta because they no longer producing any juniors juniors. Its along trip from granville.
Instead of embracing the new areas with all their difficulties we have even retreated further than in our amateur days.We were actually better off in these areas prior to professionalism than after it.
It is very hard to get the message to those in control that rugby in Western Sydney and southern districts in the 1970’s and 80’s was stronger than it is now.For God sake does not anyone remenber how good the st george and Port hacking juniors were.
rugby is not as weak in western sydney as assumed Newington and trinity offer regular scholarships and they are not academic.
the growth in private schools identified above is correct. however they are the lower cost variety and have rejected rugby league as always but opened up to AFL and football with rugby at least beating rugby league. i still have the unedifying spectacle of trying to push touch football for it to be rejected( appears to be tainted by rugby league). This is our fault pushed by some misguided rugby dickhead
My experience is that the NRL clubs despite being under enormous financial pressure place a higher priority on grassroots development then rugby union. Corny and as cheap as it is the rugby league train that visits country towns is such a symbol.The lambasting the roosters got from the other NRL clubs about not sponsoring junior U/16 and U/18s has quickly been redressed.
How can you have two Shute shields that have no affiliated junior clubs ( do not give me the garbage about Sydney Uni)
and the largest growth area in sydney penrith and macarthur with only three. get them out of it and re organise national juniors
I do not hate private schools as educational institutions. But it is galling when the ABC promotes an often second rate GPS competition with money provided by NSWRU on atelevision broadcast of the Shute Shield
We need a commission that should be funded by broadcasting rights to administer” junior” rugby nationwide. I need to break the juniors away and run a truly national junior rep competitions based not on states but regions U/16/18/20.
It should be the junior competition promoted by the ABC
Bay35Pablo said | October 1st 2009 @ 8:36am | Report comment
Westy, you sound like a man to get on board. If you are on facebook, look at the Rugby Australia group, find my details on the group, and drop me a message. if not, reply to this saying you aren’t on facebook and I’ll work out how to contact you from there.
Swear said | October 2nd 2009 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
Hi Bay35Pablo, hope you can help. I want to be part of Rugby Australia but don’t do facebook. Can any info be forwarded to me – swearengine@hotmail.com
Thanks
sheek said | October 1st 2009 @ 9:35am | Report comment
Yes,
Rugby may have progressed in some ways, but has neglected the greater west & south-west of Sydney appallingly. Parramatta played in grand finals in 74, 75, 77, 79, 84, 85 & 86, winning premierships in 77, 85 & 86.
That’s 7 grand final appearances in 13 seasons for 3 premierships. Now look at the poor buggers……….
Bob McGregor said | September 30th 2009 @ 10:51pm | Report comment
Great article Andrew and most thought provoking.
I’ve tried to scan the posts in reply and sense a groundswell of acceptance of most posters to somehow be involved.
I’m usually a half glass full kind of guy but my immediate reaction on reading your article was the “oligarchy currently running RUGBY” won’t wear this, especially if using the word Rugby in any ‘breakaway’ grass roots movement’. Next I can see the IRB being called in to either take it over or charging affiliation fees etc etc etc. I can envisage problems but I hope I’m wrong.
Have you run this by a good legal eagle for an opinion?
All our frustrations emanate from a lack of funds within the ARU that were squandered after the 2003 ARU RWC payback from the IRB to the ARU. Our farm yard animals at the leadership level ensured JON was sacked and they “took over”. We have been living and suffering from that takeover ever since. The oligarchy running Rugby in NSW is controlled by Randwick and Sydney University and a further few similarly linked individuals and clubs. Perhaps a more effective response may be a takeover of the current administration from within. Strange how R’wick and Sydney Uni seem to make the Grand Final in the professional era after professional acceptance became entrenched.
Then again it’s like any ‘election’ – a politician ALWAYS wins! After all, it was H.L. Mencken who opined “an election is an advance auction of stolen goods”.
Solve these ‘problems’ and you have my support – provided it is democratic.
Bay35Pablo said | October 1st 2009 @ 8:35am | Report comment
Rugby Australia is already taken as a business name, although I could look into whether there are ways around that. The ARU might object to a supporter body calling itself Rugby Australia, as they might say it has connotations it might be associated with the ARU. As such, Grass Roots Rugby or Rugby Union supporters Associations may be preferable. Something to consider at the first meeting.
The point appears to be there is general good feeling to setting up a body to provide a voice for the grass roots supporters of rugby, and trying to develop the game more than is currently being done. My though is, if grass roots rugby can’t get help or a response from the ARU or state unions, who steps in …. ? Perhaps the GRR/RUSA?
Working Class Rugger said | September 30th 2009 @ 11:07pm | Report comment
Bob
Grass Roots Rugby which appears to be the name it has adopted will not be a competitior to the current setups. At least not intially. What it will be is a complementary organsiation that when necessary be willing to work with existing authorities to achieve its primary objective’s. Not saying it will fall into line though. It will be a completely independent body which when necessary represent the voice’s of the Rugby population. An organisation that truly represents the mood of the Rugby Public. And it’s actions will be dictated by that.
Under the membership structure that seems to be favoured. Signing up gives you a vote. You effectively become a shareholder. You can run for a board position aswell as help decide the strategic planning of the programs it will run. If the organisation can appeal to the genral Rugby public to sign up it could become a very significant force to keep the ARU and State Unions in check.
Swear said | September 30th 2009 @ 11:50pm | Report comment
Andrew, thanks for your article. It offers a positive and proactive message to all supporters of Australian Rugby. That is, to fill a basic need – grassroots development. I will happily volunteer time and membership fee to be a part of such an important movement. I consider myself fortunate to have had the opportunity to play rugby in my younger years, especially in AFL dominated WA. And I know that a structured effort delivering the game to young people in my state can only enrich the game over here.
With your proposal we have a chance to turn things around for our sport by exposing rugby to more prospective future Wallabies. We need to action this plan.
grandma said | October 1st 2009 @ 12:52am | Report comment
great article – bottom line – all we Rugby tragics want is to watch and enjoy the game – no matter if it is sub-districts, provincial or international!!!
Jameswm said | October 1st 2009 @ 8:41am | Report comment
I haven’t been through all the comments but geez, there is so much you could do at grass roots level to make rugby more popular.
I coach an U10 club team and have coached them since the U6s. We are getting players flocking to the club – we had 46 U10 players this year, after having 26 the year before. Next year we’ll have about 55-60, to sustain three 15-a-side teams. We had to turn them away last season (we did send them to other local clubs).
Why? It’s all because we have a couple of dedicated coaches down there, and a supportice Committee. The kids love playing and training. They become good mates. We train and play at the 1st grade ground, so it’s great socially for the parents (the bar is right there). We are getting kids at school swapping from soccer to rugby because of the fun all the rugby boys are having, and 10 more boys from that year at one school alone are coming to club rugby – 10 for 2009, another 10 I reckon for 2010.
The Sydney Unis of this world call themselves grass roots rugby, but they have no idea. School, junior and subbies are the real grass roots. This has all happened at our club with zero help from the ARU, but because of the passion of a handful of people. We have a bit of a relationship with the NSWRU and they aren’t too bad – they do coaching courses and arrange the refs but not too much else (there isn’t too much else on their program really). They do take kids to S15 games though, to cheer the Tahs onto the field etc. They’re a decent mob with good hearts working there at the NSWRU, (they might be part of the ARU now in fact).
The main problem though I think is RUPA, who negotiated for the players to get such a huge slice of the pie. More of the money needs to go into grass roots programs. The players themselves have forgotten where they’ve come from – well, that could be uinfair. Many of them. There are the good eggs like Phil Waugh, Tatafu and Halangahu, who help out with coaching clinics and do it from the heart, rather than many others who only go because they have to.
Here are but a few simple (yet obvious) ideas:
- more regular comps for the public schools – primary and high school
- more skills sessions from Wallabies and Waratahs at schools and juniors. Get the rep players from your area to help out. Everyone pitch in in the west of Sydney where there aren’t as many to go around a big area
- more funding so the clubs don’t have to do quite so much begging to sponsors
- and a big one – player cards, the same war the NRL does. 8-12yo boys LOVE these. The rugby boys, who have no interest in League, trade League cards at school, and learn about League and idolise its players. WAKE UP ARU!!
There is so much else – I could write a long essay…
Bay35Pablo said | October 1st 2009 @ 8:43am | Report comment
Jameswm, another man whose inputs we need. Jump on the Rugby Australia facebook group, and drop me a message.
stillmissit said | October 1st 2009 @ 8:52am | Report comment
Great stuff Jameswm we need to clone you many times over.
sheek said | October 1st 2009 @ 9:06am | Report comment
James,
I love reading both you & Westy offer your views on the grassroots – East meets West!
Very informative…..
Invictus said | October 1st 2009 @ 9:58am | Report comment
Rugby trading cards? Now there is an idea worth looking into…..
stillmissit said | October 1st 2009 @ 8:47am | Report comment
Sorry to jump in late on this one. Great article Andrew.
I think that O’Neil had the right idea when he came on board ie make the Wallabies a hot item, fill the coffers then we can address the other issues. Unfortunately due to some inherited issues and the lack of players at Wallaby level he has a top coach with a bunch of S14 level players who either refuse to step up, or cant. RUPA and player power is also a deep problem in Australia.
At the other end of the spectrum we have the clubs who are a chronic case, witness the grand final against the 2 top teams in Sydney trying to bore the brave 7500 who paid to watch it. The clubs are totally politically constipated and strike me as small minded people who want to eat their neighbour rather than build a larger larder. The politics within most of these clubs has to be experienced before you think that a bottom up approach will succeed.
It was only about 10 years ago that the ARU had to take over the NSWRU as they were bankrupt. Prior to that in my day the NSW RU bought Concord Oval as THE venue for all Wallaby fixtures in Sydney, then sold most of the seats to Kiwi’s who were prepared to pay in advance. I think the architect of this idea ended up in jail but dont quote me on that.
I am not an apologist for the ARU but there is a base reality that we all need to face up to. Rugby is on the slide in Australia there are fewer kids wanting to play the game, fewer volunteers, severe lack of cash in most clubs coupled with rising costs ie min of 250k to keep the doors of a grade club open in Sydney and several subbies clubs closing their doors or amalgamating.
Like Andrew says country rugby has been the biggest loser in all of this. Is RUGBY AUSTRALIA the answer? I dont know but it will take a very big, focussed and capable person to launch this and make it work.
Jack Petro said | October 1st 2009 @ 9:56am | Report comment
Quick question Westy: If junior rugby is so rosey in western Sydney, why haven’t the local clubs close to Penrith affiliated with the senior club? It seems they’re mostly affiliated with Parramatta – a club that has been forced due to the GFC to look for another ground in 2010, as Granville is no longer their home; that wasn’t NSWRU or the ARU’s fault – maybe it was their administration! Is it because the junior clubs thatw ere formed, were done so by ex-Parramatta players and despite their location in western sydney, have decided to affiliate with their former club (for junior representative fixtures such as the SJRU State Championships). The point is: Where does this leave Penrith Rugby Club? If they wanted to embace and grow rugby in their area, they would through their juniors into the Penrith colours.
Just a another little point of discussion, but I feel pertinent to this blog!
Invictus said | October 1st 2009 @ 10:01am | Report comment
According to your previous post you aren’t interested and weren’t posting anymore as we are all deluding ourselves?
Have you done a backflip??
Harry Wombat said | October 1st 2009 @ 10:49am | Report comment
Jack you need to understand a bit about junior rugby. At the minis level it is run by the district so if your district only has one or two clubs it becomes a problem to run a successfull minis program. Without minis (U6 – U9) you struggle to have a respectable club, Blue Mountains proving otherwise though. The choice now for these clubs is to move away from Parramatta weakening their district and in effect creating two weak districts or Penrith going out and creating new clubs with the possible view their minis could play in the Parramatta district until a critical mass is reached. Please also keep in mind, for a time Penrith did not encourage juniors to perhaps the extent Parramatta did and now as a consequence feeling the effects
Vented Relief said | October 1st 2009 @ 10:49am | Report comment
A few more suggestions for the name (I’m not totally sold on Grass Roots Rugby…..yet).
The Rugby Community… or Community Rugby
The Australian Rugby Alliance (…. probably too many connetations to war – we’re not aiming to fight other codes or even other rugby organisations I think)
something to do with Muster…. perhaps the Australian Rugby Muster (ARM – the strong arm ultimately supporting the Wallaby fist).
These are all a bit lame…. does anyone have any more suggestions?
Invictus said | October 1st 2009 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
How about True Colours??
Brett McKay said | October 1st 2009 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
not if means we have to hear Kasey Chambers’ rendition of said song Invictus…
Invictus said | October 1st 2009 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
Absolutely not!!!!!!!!!!!
Cyndi Lauper all the way!!
BigAl said | October 2nd 2009 @ 7:55pm | Report comment
What about her version of . . . ‘Money Changes Everything’
Andrew Logan said | October 2nd 2009 @ 4:12pm | Report comment
Guys….I like this line of thought! Keep it up and stand by for more….
JF said | October 1st 2009 @ 10:56am | Report comment
Pure Rugby. Rugby First. One Rugby.
Col said | October 1st 2009 @ 11:11am | Report comment
I’ve only had time to read Andrew’s main article and browse the rest. Firstly, great article Andrew! Secondly, whether we agree with Andrew’s stance or not, we’re all posting because we CARE about rugby and it’s current issues here in Australia (as a Reds’ supporter, don’t I know it!).
I’m a “Johnny-Come-Lately” rugby supporter (only since 1995 – was brought up on League). To me the absence of a “sub-Super 14″ comp here in Australia leaves me hungry for more when Super Rugby finishes each year. I would love to have a team to support in a national comp, whether it be a Randwick or a Brisbane Brothers).
So I support Andrew’s concept in principle and I recognise the passion of others who have responded to it. Let’s give it a go and remind O’Neill that we (and Randwick, Brothers, et al) are still here and so are our kids.
Col
jacko said | October 1st 2009 @ 11:29am | Report comment
I certainly think lots of the ideas expressed have a lots of merit and would contribute to a higher profile sport amongst kids. Gets my vote (and dollars).
ozxile said | October 1st 2009 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
Andrew:
If you cannot find someone local to do it gratis I can get my programmers to fix a site up or just host it if you can find someone to build the site. The address I’ll offer is (Whatever you decide to call it).rugbyis.com, e.g., AussieGrassRoots.RugbyIs.com. We already own RugbyIs.com. We are currently working on a platform site just for stuff like this. If we do it I can guarantee that my outfit will kick in the ad revenues if there are any. We can also make sure it has a high web ranking, etc.
Details count.
I’m in for at least $100 anyway. Let me know if you want the help – and where to send the money.
Working Class Rugger said | October 1st 2009 @ 2:50pm | Report comment
Mate, to go the facebook site “Rugby Australia” and register. I’m sure everyone involved would be very supportive of your offer.
Andrew Logan said | October 2nd 2009 @ 4:11pm | Report comment
Ozxile….much appreciated….the gears are grinding on this one and your help may well be required.
I’ll be in touch, but if you could join the Facebook group, that would help. Also get as many mates as possible to join.
Cheers…
ozxile said | October 3rd 2009 @ 4:45am | Report comment
Andrew:
So far I have very carefully avoided ALL social networking ‘opportunities’. Joining the Facebook group isn’t going to happen. Spiro or Zac have my email address.
Bay35Pablo said | October 3rd 2009 @ 11:23am | Report comment
Ozxile, please email Invictus on his email he indicated above, being ah71@mail.org
He has my email address, and can pass it onto me. Thanks.
Bay35Pablo said | October 3rd 2009 @ 11:24am | Report comment
Or Little Black Riding Hood’s email address above too, likewise.
Bay35Pablo said | October 1st 2009 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
NSWRU currently has 6 Development Managers/Officers servicing the Sydney Metro area, and 8 in NSW Regional areas (apparently). The “NSW Development Plan” isn’t available on their web site, but I have asked the relevant manager their for a copy. Why they wouldn’t post it I cannot understand, unless they don’t want KPIs they can be measured against … ?
The Brumbies web site lists on its Community Rugby Contacts list a Community Rugby Manager, Competitions Manager, Coaching & Development Manager, Rugby Development Coordinator, Referee Administrator , Community Rugby Assistant, Academy Head Coach, Southern Inland Rugby Manager, Referee Development Officer & 2 Rugby Development Officers (Far South Coast/Monaro & Southern Inland).
Hard to find anything on the ARU web site for development. A text serach seemed to refer to 2 development managers in NSW, so there may be more.
AFL’s web site on development was suffice to say somewhat better and clearer (although no details of development officers – more on programs).
Not sure on the details for each club, but haven’t checked yet.
Sounds a little thinly stretched for the whole of NSW and ACT?
Working Class Rugger said | October 1st 2009 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
Bay
RugbyWA’s site is very similar to the ACTRU’s. You can actually direct your enquiry to the individual in question. And from experience they are rather prompt in response. I contacted their development manager yesterday. So I’m expecting a response either today or tommorrow. The same from their Community Rugby manager.
I already have this list of club contacts.
Bay35Pablo said | October 1st 2009 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
You can access the ARU Annual reports on their web site. The most recent is 2008 at:
http://www.rugby.com.au/aru/images/aru_annual_report_2008_revised_reduced.pdf
Careful it’s about 15MB downlaod.
However, it is interesting to see the 2008 milestones on pages 7-8. Every single one was associated with the top level competitions and so forth. Given the “vision” (at page 6) is:
● developing substantially more mass entertainment presence domestically and
internationally;
● a large increase in the playing population;
● a much bigger participation base and with Rugby to be a major influence in
developing the values and ability of youth.
it would appear they have not achieved any milestones (directly) in that regard. Oh wait, S15 and Wallabies are the only mass entertainment they care about ….
JF said | October 1st 2009 @ 2:29pm | Report comment
Spotted this clip on YT this morning, seems the US have the right idea regarding marketing grass roots rugby.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3j9taoTd0E
Jets said | October 1st 2009 @ 6:43pm | Report comment
That’s the sort of thing thing we need. It gives you a great feel about the game just watching that.
King of Dubai said | October 1st 2009 @ 5:35pm | Report comment
I dont know any detail regarding grassroots rugby, how money is being spent and where etc etc but im going to air my fustrations and ideas! not sure what my point is exactly. It is clear though that the community element appears to be lacking, or non existent. This may be the case in rural areas but theres soemthing exciting and fun about watching friday night football (NRL) where you feel apart of the sport, where the commentators seem like their on your side.
They talk about players like they know them on a pesonal level, where kiwi’s, PNG imports and the like are one of the boys. its the togetherness about the game which appears to be unnaffected by corporate politics. Yes they have serious off field issues but at least the game appears to be bigger than the players. the players just get on with it- and if they dont perform they wont get picked which is great becuase the Kangaroos and origin sides must be the hardest teams to make in Australian sport- its ALWAYS a good spectacle.
I applaud SANZAR for trying to introduce the ELV’s which is positive. however evrytime i start thinking about what needs to be done, I find myself identifying the problems of the game and organisation but not the solution. too much money being paid to players but that is to make sure they dont head north, lack of depth so we pinch NRL pleyers but thats ignoring grassroots rugby. expanding the S14 to grow the game long term but creating player depth issues in the short term, underperforming franchises.
Ill always watch Union and the wallabies over league but its the idea of ‘our’ game that is lost. the game is bigger than the players, and the wallabies need to be strong to show that the game is healthy. much like Ferrari’s formula 1 team- the flagship car that NEEDS to win on the big stage to sell other ferraris and be a popular brand.
Reason school boy rugby is televised is becuase its a seriously good specticle- you cannot deny that! other reason is people are passionate about it, the schools, the history, the skill and speed and no money/ sponsorship/ corporate crap. its played for the right reasons.
SlamminSam said | October 5th 2009 @ 3:29pm | Report comment
Andrew,
It seems to me that you have inspired many from this article (including me) and we should utilise this momentum immediately.
The concept is offering exactly what is missing from the grass roots level. I’m currently in my 30th year playing and I’m grass roots rugby through and through. I’m also the current VP of MRC. We as a club are fortunate enough to have a Juniors base of over 500 kids per year and are working on filtering them all the way through to colts then grade.
This same area boasts over 700 AFL juniors, and around 400 junior Soccer players. The NRL is none existent but the development guys are still coming and watching the juniors in all codes.
You have my full support and I would happily contribute $100 in membership. I am not in a great financial position, however the survival of the grass roots rugby is the survial of rugby in Australia and for that I would give everything that I have.
This is an example of exactly where our Development Teams needs to be and what they have to battle against. We need to be, full time in all schools/clubs in all areas Nationally. There need to be an association with the likes of ABC/ Channel 7/ OneHD and Gilbert to gain sponsorship so we can follow the footsteps of AFL and give every kid a Gilbert football and a backpack / waterbottle etc. With a training session for the kids.
The Ideas mentioned in other comments above are a fantastic starting point and are the “Boots on” approach that is required. I would be surprised if what you have proposed here, would be completely ignored, by the ARU (albeit an up hill battle for the old heads to understand). We are offering to take the “headache” away from them, as well as recruiting and training Future wallabies for them. Country Rugby is the greatest forgotten resource, we have an opportunity to make it great again on a national scale.
More National tours and tournaments 7’s, 10’s etc. These simple things raise our profile. Look what Cobar are currently doing and what the Bondi 10’s have created. All of these are acheivable. 2011 World cup will once again raise the Rugby profile. Grass Roots rugby needs to be up and running prior to this to take full advantage of the ARU promotional campaigne
The trading cards are a great idea and Friday night games are where the teams can gain support.
I will send an invite to all our current players/members to join.
My 2 cents
Bay35Pablo said | October 5th 2009 @ 7:30pm | Report comment
SlamminSam, MRC?
Thanks for the feedback. Stay tuned.
SlamminSam said | October 7th 2009 @ 4:53pm | Report comment
Bay35Pablo
Mosman Rugby Club Sydney
Bay35Pablo said | October 8th 2009 @ 9:20am | Report comment
Slammin Sam, you should have said the Whales and I would have worked it out. I am just down the road then. Tell your boys to back me up next time I try to get the club rugby put on the telly at the Hotel Cremorne will you … ?
Bay35Pablo said | October 8th 2009 @ 9:22am | Report comment
Should get an update out to everyone within the next few days, and certainly over the weekend, as to what is going on for Rugby Australia. Andrew and I have been plotting, with a few others’ assistance …
Bay35Pablo said | October 11th 2009 @ 5:36pm | Report comment
The success of Rugby Australia will require sufficient funds and volunteers. Unless there is sufficient interest in providing such funds (by memberships and pledges of support) and volunteers, then there is little point in spending the time and money to set the organisation up.
Further, it is necessary to obtain input and feedback from the various junior, school and club levels nation wide to identify what assistance they require, and also what is working and does not need attention (or needs applying more widely).
As such, we (Andrew Logan and I, and likely some others we can rope in) are currently taking steps to explore the feasibility of setting up Rugby Australia. This process will have two major parts:
• seeking pledges of intent in relation to membership, sponsorship and volunteers, to assess whether there will be sufficient support to be successful.
• undertaking a detailed survey seeking feedback from all junior, school and club organisations in the country, via a web and email based survey system.
The next step will be to set up a web site for the pledges process to take place and provide a point of contact, which is currently underway. The feedback process can then start.
It is likely that some volunteers will be asked to assist in drafting the survey, probably people with some experience in juniors, schools and/or club levels (who will know the right questions to ask).
One certainty is that the organisation will not be named Rugby Australia, as that name is already registered in New South Wales as a business name.
Pete said | October 11th 2009 @ 6:09pm | Report comment
Pablo & Andrew,
I’m not financially flush, but like others on this post I am keen to pay a membership and help where I can. I work full time (travelling a lot) and with a young family my free time is limited. But Rugby means everything to me. I’m sick of criticising Rugby in Australia but not doing anything constructive, such as getting off my butt, to help. My involvement with Rugby has only been as a player so I now want to help financially and with my time. I have signed up to the Rugby Australia Facebook page. Look forward to hearing about the progress.
Impoverished Junior said | October 13th 2009 @ 5:41pm | Report comment
Hey Bay35Pablo
Juniors already have volunteers across Australia. Re funding, not an issue as schools and Juniors get nothing from ARU except arrogance and disengagement. They cant even provide us with an IT system that works for our club administration and competition management; we got the shits waiting for them to deliver and developed it ourselves a couple of years ago. They in turn have the shits with Juniors in Brisbane and Sydney because we are using our own IT platform and their marketing gurus can not utilise to sell to the Australian public what a wonderful job the ARU is doing. Juniors have already done a survey a few years ago, quite detailed and revealing. If you want a copy of it send me an email to impoverishedjunior@gmail.com and I will gladly provide.
Impoverished Junior said | October 13th 2009 @ 5:19pm | Report comment
Did you see this article?
ARU report confirms code on wane | The Australian. see http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26196369-5015651,00.html
The only real question is whether current CEO and mgt team will do the honorable thing and resign.
They sack coaches and players when they under perform so why should they be any different?
rugbyskier said | November 17th 2009 @ 10:37am | Report comment
So what’s happening with this initiative? I missed the original discussion and saw a reference to it in the Sports Supporters Association thread. I would be keen to support the initiative, I am a member of the ACT Veterans Rugby club and see the benefits of supporting grass roots rugby.
Bay35Pablo said | November 17th 2009 @ 11:04am | Report comment
Rugbyskier, Andrew and I are looking into starting some discussions about feasibility. When there is anything worth advising, there’ll be an update here, or a new article on the Roar. We have been heartened by the positive response from readers, but now we are looking at the nitty gritty of setting up, which is boring, and takes up time (fitted in between jobs, kids, etc).
We were hoping to get something moving before Christmas, but now I am not so sure. Given the SSA took 12months to set up, it is clear these things take time.
Stay tuned, and thanks for the interest. needed someone on the ground in the ACT for some (worthwhile) input ….
Bay35Pablo said | December 11th 2009 @ 1:31pm | Report comment
Discussions have been going on. Working groups have been discussing things. A company is to be set up, and the name will now be Grassroots Rugby Australia. Rugby Australia was taken …
Pledges may be invited in advance for membership, to help fund this (setting up a company isn’t cheap you know!).
Stay tuned.
You can email me on bay35pablo@gmail.com if you have an overwhelming urge to pledge money, or volunteer to help out. That will do until the highly sexy web site is eventually set up.
Bay35Pablo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:00pm | Report comment
Many Roroarers have expressed interest about the setting up of Rugby Australia. That is now proposed to be set up as a not for profit company under the name of Grassroots Rugby Australia (GRA). We would now like to invite some more formal feedback from you all.
The first is in relation to the issue of participating in the GRA. The company will have a board of directors, of probably 4 to 8, to run the body. However, like any volunteer organisation, the company will only be as strong as all those willing to support it and do the day to day work, which will be more than 4-8 people. It is expected that there will be a structure of committees set up, with willing volunteers in each state or region, to propose, develop and administer the activities of the GRA in each such state or region. The relevant committees will be the “troops on the ground” coming up with the suitable plans, putting them to the board, and being given the go ahead and funding for programs. The board will almost certainly be actively involved in those committees, with most being on a committee. Given the size of Australia, and the number of areas rugby is played in, the GRA simply cannot function unless it has a spread of willing and active members throughout the country.
As such, if you are willing to become involved in the GRA in this way, please let us know. Given this will be a volunteer organisation, running on the smell of an oily rag (at least until we find rugby’s version of Frank Lowy or Rusell Crowe), all we can offer is Winston Churchill’s famous promise of blood, sweat and tears (and perhaps the odd free T shirt) and the satisfaction of knowing you are helping the sport we all love. However, you probably already knew that, or are already doing that for some other rugby body!
If you are interested in being involved on one of the committees, please let us know your contact details, where you are based, the area of work you are involved in (as this gives some idea of the skills and experience you will bring to the table) and any formal rugby qualifications you may hold (e.g. Level 2 coaching certificate, accredited referee). Although it is early days, the thought is to have a committee of at least 3-4 for each state with active membership (i.e. if we end up with no members from a state, such as Tasmania, then we aren’t likely to be looking at running prgrams there in the short term), and perhaps 2 in each of NSW and Queensland (one for the metropolitan, and one for country and regional areas) given their size and circumstances.
Secondly, we would like to invite your thoughts and suggestions for programs and events for the GRA to look at running in due course.
At this stage, discussions have raised ideas such as:
1. Multi-day coaching clinic for 20-40 NSW Country Colts level players from all zones, with the involvement of professional volunteer coaches and focus on positional coaching. This was an idea already proposed to NSW Country which has never been responded to, and could be applicable to other states and regions.
2. Corporate touch football tournament, with “name” players (potentially Silver Foxes) playing coaching/mentor roles for teams, as a fund raising event.
3. Internet/email survey of all junior and club teams nation wide to obtain feedback about their status and needs.
4. Negotiating discount rates from suppliers of equipment to be available to members and their teams (e.g. jerseys, balls, etc).
5. Providing support and advice to clubs looking to organise tournaments. E.g. Cobar 10s, Mudgee Rugby Festival.
6. Looking at programs with organisations such as PCYC, Youth Off the Streets, etc, to organise rugby teams and competitions for young people.
7. Providing support for establishing school teams, similarly to what Penrith Rugby Club did with funds received from the ARU in the early 2000s.
We are sure everyone has a different perspective, and has a number of ideas for how rugby can be helped and developed both generally in their area. As such, we want to hear your top 5 ideas (as we have to draw a line somewhere) for programs the GRA or committees can consider in due course, and work out what programs to look at developing once the GRA is set up.
We look forward to hearing from you as, at least from those that have posted articles or comments on the Roar, we know there are plenty of you out there with lots of ideas!
Please contact me via email on bay35pablo@gmail.com regarding the above.
Bay35Pablo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
As indicated above, the aim is to establish a not for profit company early this year, as the first formal step of establishing Grassroots Rugby Australia. Part up setting up such a company, and also making clear to everyone what GRA is being set up to do, is to clearly set out the aims of that company. The company can only act in line with those aims and objectives, so they are very important. Further, they are what the company is about so they are important to get right.
Andrew Logan set out a number of aims in his article on the Roar that started all this (to be found at
http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/09/30/its-time-for-the-launch-of-rugby-australia/). However, after further discussions, they have been refined and narrowed. In particular, the aim for the GRA is to not be a political body, not act as a lobby group, and to work with the ARU and state and subsidiary unions in relation to the development of grassroots (amateur) rugby.
Developing out of those discussions, a set of draft aims have been drawn up, which will go into the constitution of the company in due course. We are taking the chance to circulate those now, for input and discussion.
Those draft aims and objectives are:
1. Support the development of schools, junior, club and other non-professional rugby.
2. Complement existing programs and initiatives being undertaken by the ARU, and state and subsidiary unions.
3. Provide an avenue for players, ex-players and supporters to be involved in the development of rugby.
4. Provide an avenue for constructive feedback to the ARU, and state and subsidiary unions.
5. Promote rugby as a participation sport at all non-professional levels.
6. Promote non-playing participation in rugby, including refereeing, coaching and administration.
7. Provide support and guidance for the formation of new club, school and junior teams.
8. Develop and support non-professional representative and touring opportunities at school, junior and club level.
9. Establish and support a network of rugby development volunteers across Australia.
10. Raise funds and sponsorship to achieve the aims of the GRA.
We invite you to provide any comments you have about the above draft aims and objectives, even if it is to indicate you agree they are suitable. We believe the above covers pretty much everything the GRA intends to do and anything more is likely to be duplication or refinement, but now is the chance to be involved in setting the objectives of the GRA and help “polish” the drafting of those aims.
Please provide and such comments or feedback within the next few weeks to me at bay35pablo@gmail.com, and it is hoped we will take steps to begin setting up the company within the next month or so.
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:05pm | Report comment
i think you should look at taking those proffesional negotiators/ marketing/community welfare teams into league schools to argue for the inclusion of union in curricula
Bay35Pablo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
rugbyfuture, sounds like a proposed program!!!
I would have emailed you these updates (as well), but your email is on my work PC, and I am doing this from home today.
Hope you can get on board and provide some input. Judging from your workrate over the break, you have plenty of ideas and passion!!!
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
hahaha we’ll see how i go, i’ve got to get my Rugby team going at UWS, but who knows what the work rates and things will be
Bay35Pablo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
Like I’ve said before, let us know how UWS Penrith goes and if you need any assistance.
sixpack125 said | January 2nd 2010 @ 8:13pm | Report comment
There is already a rugby club at UWS. Yes it does play its home games at Richmond campus but there are many students playing for UWS who study at Penrith or Parramatta campuses. The uni is a full supporter of the UWS Rugby Club and wont like you start up another. If you want to get involved with the UWS Rugby Club, I suggest you have a look at our website http://www.uwshawkesbury@rugby.net.au or call our President John on 0412 223 444. Our club is 118 years old and play in the NSWSRU 3rd div. We also hold training at Penrith campus during our preseason.
rugbyfuture said | January 3rd 2010 @ 10:49am | Report comment
sixpack, there was a debate about this in another article, the HAC rugby club holds 100 years of proud tradition, but nontheless it was argued that it has developed with those traditions over time that restrict its wider appeal and its position as a mainstay of the hawkesbury campus also make it less relevant.
furthermore it was argued that the club had a higher emphasis on those living on the hawkesbury campus and the richmond community and that it seemed to exemplify a tertiary Joeys or Kings.
The NSWRU developmental officers and CEO, Jim L’Estrange, fully suppor the creation of a new club to help develop rugby within the greater western sydney area, and specifically penrith, without the burden of old traditions situated at Hawkesbury Ag, which can be considered more of a subsidiary than that of a campus.
There are also some lecturers and staff of the university involved in its development
Bay35Pablo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
As indicated above, we are now looking at setting up a company to make that idea a reality. However, like anything, there are costs involved. Setting up a company, a web site, getting the relevant insurances in place, starting operations, all takes money. Further, there is the Catch 22 of what comes first. How do you get members for a body when you haven’t set up the body to take members?
Andrew Logan and myself have already spent several hundred dollars getting he business name registered in the interim, and getting a logo drawn up (which is pretty spiffing if Andrew says so himself as he commissioned it). However, getting the company set up and everything that follows will involve money that neither of us are either willing or able to front up at this stage.
As such, given the number of people who previously expressed support and a willingness to put their hard earned up and pay membership fees, we are asking people to “put their money where their mouth is”.
It is proposed to have an basic annual membership fee of $30. For people who are willing to pledge and pay this, they will then be made members immediately after the company is set up.
However, to assist in the setting up of the organisation, we also propose to have Foundation Membership. This will involve a $100 fee, which will include the basic membership fee. However, they will also be recorded in the Constitution as the first members (and be members upon the company being registered), and will receive a limited edition Foundation Member GRA polo. So in addition to the warm inner glow of helping set up the GRA, they will also get the bragging rights of their name being forever on the Constitution, and a polo which says to everyone else they were one of the first to put their money where their mouth is and help set up the GRA. The GRA may sell similar or other polos in future, but Foundation Member editions they won’t be!
We propose to have up to 100 Foundation Members. We intend to cap it at that, as this will provide sufficient funds to set the company up properly (beyond any basic memerbship pledges), and provide some starting funds for operations (and get those polos). Oh, and reimburse Andrew and I for our expenses ! (less our Foundation Member fees – Andrew has already called shotgun on Membership No. 1)
As such, we invite you to pledge your membership to the GRA, either as a regular member or as a Foundation Member, and help set up the organisation.
If you wish to do so, please email me your details at bay35pablo@gmail.com as follows, and we can then take further steps to formalise the application for membership and get the GRA show on the road:
Name
Postal Address
Email address
Membership Type
Polo size (if Foundation Member)
Thank you for everyone’s interest to date, and we look forward to setting up the GRA with your help and working on the development of rugby in Australia.
Bay35Pablo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:05pm | Report comment
I expect Andrew will probably put out an article soon about this all.
For those who have gotten the above updates 3 times (through emails, Facebook and here), apologies. But better to have gotten it too many times than not at all!!!
Working Class Rugger said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
Bay
Personally the main objective of GRA should be the proliferation of Schools Rugby competitions similar to what Penrith has done and seeding programs/ kit program to assist in all areas in both establishing new and supporting existing clubs. The Schools systems are the best way to reach the greatest number’s of potential participants and by building relationships with clubs within community Rugby grow the club game from the very bottom up.
The other main program would focus on free coaching and refereeing course’s. Not GRA running the programs but though relationships with club set up funding to maximise the number of parents and player’s qualified to not only strengthen there individual clubs but GRA pool of volunteers.
Have you sent emails to the individual club contacts in order to begin to reach the greater Rugby community. And I’d happily pledge $100 to assist in getting GRA up and running if you will have me.
Bay35Pablo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:52pm | Report comment
WCR, the idea is to do a survey to clubs to get feedback and also create awareness. But we need to set up formally before we do this.
Happy to have you as a foundation member, and channel some of the great input you have provided on the Roar into the GRA if possible.
Drop me an email at bay35pablo@gmail.com!!
Working Class Rugger said | January 2nd 2010 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
Bay
Okay. How do you plan to approach the ARU and state Unions ?
Bay35Pablo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 2:23pm | Report comment
WCR, that my old china is something I am happy to discuss via email ….
Yikes said | January 2nd 2010 @ 10:38pm | Report comment
Well, the ARU and NSWRU know you’re out there anyway, and looking forward to working together. Despite Andrew’s somewhat combative original post, the aims and charter for GRA posted by Bay hits exactly the right notes and sounds like a great starting place.
Personally, I think GRA should have a short-term narrow focus on one goal in each state that it exists, perhaps. I mean there is a lot of moaning about clubs out in Sydney’s west, so I think something like trying to start a new club somewhere in the west where it’s needed, both seniors and juniors is a contained project that requires some dedicated individuals and is something that State Unions or ARU simply cannot do.
Also any assistance in running school teams in the tournaments that currently exist would be much appreciated I’m sure.
There have been numerous surveys of club and junior teams asking what they want. We could probably arrange for the results to be provided to GRA rather than having to reinvent the wheel.
(By the way, I was concerned about your comment in another thread that you didn’t get a development plan that you asked for from NSWRU, Bay. I have a feeling anything mentioned on the website such as development plans is old, old, old hat (there has been no budget to keep the website updated on development in NSW and basically everything there is from 2006). But there are development plans in place for NSW and I don’t see why GRA couldn’t be a party to them in due course. All the relevant sub-unions and junior bodies in NSW have had the plans presented to them.)
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 10:41pm | Report comment
thanks for being our link yikes, although i may not speak for everyone, your input has been very generous for me, and hopefully will be for GRA
jeznez said | January 5th 2010 @ 1:02am | Report comment
what ever happened to the UWS Bankstown team I used to play against? The distributed campus seems to have spawned a few sides over the years – is a penrith one you are aiming for now?
rugbyfuture said | January 5th 2010 @ 1:14am | Report comment
From what i understand and what i’ve heard the bankstown merged with what was a campbelltown club, then they ceased to exist as a university club, continuing as a standalone bankstown/macarthur club.
the distributed campus model, by which the university is offering now i ,nor do many of the staff contacts ive spoken to, will probably cease to exist at one stage with a split up, we’ll see what happens there
Quinnies97 said | January 5th 2010 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Gentlemen,
These were not real uni / student clubs but community groups who had merely taken the UWS name to get access to facilities. The Uni purged itself of them in the early noughties.
Quinnies97
Quinnies97 said | January 4th 2010 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
Hey Rugbyfuture,
125sixpack was being polite but I’ll be blunt. You have no right to make out that you have any authority or ability to speak for anyone whatsoever within the University of Western Sydney rugby community. Who are you?
Your ill informed comments about the Hawkesbury Campus and UWS RUFC players are opinionated gibberish and (more to the point) if you really want to do something with Rugby within the UWS you can start by talking to the constituted and authorised committee members of the University of Western Sydney Rugby Club. Unlike faceless heroes like yourself & facebook groups and the Roar “we’re real” and actually play rugby!
The UWS RUFC is the legitimate rugby Club of the “whole” University and it doesn’t matter what Jim L’Estrange, Mark Bos, or any number of your anonymous & mythical supporters say. We are a constituted Student association which goes across all Campuses and it has been that way since 1991. The Hawkesbury connection goes back to 1891 and the “Hawkesbury” tag show a respect for 120 years of tradition and heritage & especially to the 14 Wallabies the Club has produced. The fact you call this a “burden” and your other comments just show that you are a just plain ignorant.
Since the creation of the UWS in 1991 the UWS RUFC has catered to students from all campuses and in 2009 fielded 4 teams. In 2010 we aim to field 4 teams and a colts. We play out of Richmond because it’s one of the best facilities in the west of Sydney and the Uni has spent $120K on the rugby facilities in the last 6 months.
You can start by giving us a phonecall via our contact details on the Club website & telling us who you are at least then we’ll know your real agenda. I’m also quite happy for you to put your money where your mouth is & work together for the good of UWS Rugby.
Better still get get your boots on and bring your mates to training @ UWS Penrith or UWS Richmond in the first week of February.
Qunnies97
uwshawkesbury@rugby.net.au
UWS RUFC
rugbyfuture said | January 4th 2010 @ 3:52pm | Report comment
thanks for your input Quinnies
I did not mean to insult you, that was simply the response i recieved from the people i spoke to( members of your club) and look forward to fruitfully co operating with you, will be in contact soon.
however, i don’t think you should insult the roar nor grassroots rugby australia, they have contributed to a great degree.
Quinnies97 said | January 4th 2010 @ 9:38pm | Report comment
Rugbyfuture,
Well said. Rest assured if you had insulted “me” I would not have responded……be sure to give us a call as training starts in only 28 days on the 2nd of February and yours is most definitely the first shout after training.
Qunnies97
UWS RUFC
rugbyfuture said | January 4th 2010 @ 9:51pm | Report comment
i will be happy to join once response is met from those i am cooperating with within the NSWRU, sorry, progression on supporting details has become quite in depth (as i said up to Jim L’estrange CEO of NSWRU)
so i probably won’t make it this year, but i look forward to getting involved at some stage
Quinnies97 said | January 4th 2010 @ 11:25pm | Report comment
Thanks Rugbyfuture,
Really sorry to hear you won’t be involved with UWS RUFC in 2010. I will be speaking to Jim L at a later date about this matter.
Quinnies97
rugbyfuture said | January 4th 2010 @ 11:33pm | Report comment
not to worry, not that good at the game anyways, just love the game for its flavour hahaha, the developmental rugby people seem to be handling my matter more, with direct cc’s to jim
Bay35Pablo said | January 4th 2010 @ 4:01pm | Report comment
Qunnies, I have been corresponding with rugbyfuture about this issue, as to any support Rugby Australia/Grassroots Rugby Australia can provide in setting up new clubs, once the GRA itself gets set up.
RF’s heart is certainly in the right place, and I don’t think some of his comments were necessarily meant as they may have been (and could be) read.
Hopefully UWS rugby keeps on growing, and guys like RF can help do that with UWS rugby.
If the GRA can provide any help to UWSH, feel free to get in contact with me. I expect we will be conducting a survey seeking that type of feedback from clubs such as yours in the next few months, as part of getting rolling.
I’m certainly aware of the proud history UWSH has, as a mate of mine played for you blokes while studying there in the late 1990s. Before he betrayed you all and went to Epping Rams …
Quinnies97 said | January 4th 2010 @ 10:03pm | Report comment
Thanks Bay,
Happy to be in contact and we’re always keen to meet passionate rugby people. Hopefully GRA can make an impact as from what I’ve read there is a lot of positive feeling about the concept. If it’s “Tipper” your talking about he was a bloody good winger.
Quinnies97
UWS RUFC
Bay35Pablo said | January 5th 2010 @ 7:33am | Report comment
Quinnies, Drop me a note on bay35pablo@gmail.com if you want. Would love to get some input on the type of support subbies clubs need (my personal knowledge is about 10 years old, and I was only ever a player).
My mate is Dan Wallis, but not sure if that was his nick name. Think you guys took a team to the Hong Kong Tens that he played in.
Bay35Pablo said | January 5th 2010 @ 7:43am | Report comment
Just checked, Tipper was his brother.
Bay35Pablo said | January 5th 2010 @ 7:58am | Report comment
Dan asked what your “Mott” name was, to check if he knew you.
He explained to me where Tipper came from … Harsh.
Quinnies97 said | January 5th 2010 @ 9:37am | Report comment
Thanks Bay,
My mistake… Tipper and Dan were both good blokes and very quick.
Although I was never a mott …Tell him Chubb says G’day.
Quinnies97
rugbyfuture said | February 19th 2010 @ 1:50am (4 weeks ago) | Report comment
http://www.therugbyblog.co.uk/rbs-rugbyforce-does-your-rugby-club-need-renovating#more-3488
RBS RugbyForce: does your Rugby Club need renovating?
As part of their sponsorship of the Six Nations, RBS have launched RBS RugbyForce to help grass roots rugby clubs improve their facilities – you may have noticed the banners on The Rugby Blog, and we are fully supportive of the scheme.
The RBS RugbyForce scheme encourages communities to give something back to their local rugby club by volunteering to undertake improvements to clubhouses and grounds.
The RBS RugbyForce weekend on the 5th and 6th June 2010 will bring together club members, family, friends and supporters in one big weekend of activity to help with the required renovations at their local club.
The sponsors will also help to fund renovations by offering a grant to three lucky clubs – one from each of England, Scotland and Wales – who make the most compelling case as part of their registration.
By registering on the RugbyForce page, not only will you enter the draw to win up to £5,000 for your club, you’ll also receive tips and planning documents on budgeting, organising resources and raising local awareness for the RBS RugbyForce weekend projects.
If you win, you may also be visited by one of the RBS RugbyForce ambassadors in Jason Leonard, Ieuan Evans and Andy Nicol, but there are lots of benefits even if you don’t claim the top prize.
The first 100 clubs to register will receive:
a) DIY / Supermarket online vouchers
b) 50 T-shirts
c) Posters and an RBS RugbyForce Plaque
Last year, 22 clubs entered, so you’ve got a pretty good chance of being in the first 100. Take a look at what the Big Fun Bus says about the scheme below, and then register your club on the RBS RugbyForce page before the deadline at 5pm on Friday 26th March
Here’s a tip for your application: we’ve been told that each entry will be assessed on the following criteria:
a) Planned club development and how this will benefit the local community
b) The need of the individual rugby club
Jason Leonard advocates the ethos behind the scheme: “In so many regions across the UK, we know that rugby clubs are the heartlands of their communities. Having come through the club system myself to go on to play for England, I know first-hand how crucial club rugby is for international development. The big aim of RBS RugbyForce is to provide much-needed resources for club rugby, and get communities backing their local side.”
Here are some other images from last year’s RugbyForce weekend:
http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/rugbyforce.php
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I know its not the same thing, but in spirit it is very similar and encouraging for rugby in Britain.