League is back, but did it ever really disappear?
Roar Guru By johnhunt92, 7 Oct 2009 johnhunt92 is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- NRL, Rugby League, rugby league grand final
180 Have your say
Up until Grand Final day, the NRL had no right to be smug with the problems inherent in its code. If people thought 2008 was bad, 2009 was a disaster in PR for the code.
Well, the Grand Final had almost wiped that away.
The NRL decider outrated the AFL decider by 200,000 TV viewers. My friends, league is back big time and is here to stay.
After fighting off union challenges stemming from the 2003 Rugby World Cup and the rise of football, league is definitely the number two Aussie sport.
While AFL is, and will be, number one for a long time, league should be making the AFL sweat. NRL crowds topped three million and its ratings on Channel Nine also were up on last season.
League was once doomed by its bitter infighting during Super League (something union should remember and think about in its situation).
Now, ten years on, league warring factions have got in bed together and, for the better of the code, have kept their battles private.
While everything and everyone in league can see more good times ahead, I will acknowledge Rebecca Wilson, the ARU appointed Grim Reaper of rugby league, has a point.
League has serious issues to deal with that could stop its growth.
Its brand is damaged from all the scandals over the past two years. As well as that, there are clubs in Sydney that are at the point of collapse.
The NRL cannot really help them due to being shortchanged in the TV rights.
2009 has shown that League is not immortal from its problems. 2009 did show though that League is not far off that immortality.
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- NRL, Rugby League, rugby league grand final
October 7th 2009 @ 10:56am
James said | October 7th 2009 @ 10:56am | Report comment
650,000 viewers in Melbourne alone for the NRL Grand Final…had Melbourne not been in it, it would be undisputed accross all sources that the AFL Grand Final rated better. It works boths ways in that the Syndey Swans Grand Finals of 2005/2006 were also extremely high raters.
When you consider the AFL Grand Final is played on 2.30pm on a Saturday (yes people do work on Saturdays), and the NRL GF is on 5pm on a Sunday, then its extraordinary the AFL gets that close. When the NRL GF reverts back to its traditional Sunday 3pm kickoff, come talk to us.
October 7th 2009 @ 11:13am
oikee said | October 7th 2009 @ 11:13am | Report comment
James, read my 10 commandments mate, the NRL has not even started a push into the other 2 states. AFL has been in NSW and QLD for over 100 years my man. What happens to your shonky figures next 5 years.
I will map out what your code has done with its warchest.
1 cancelled its only international game
2 pushing into markets that wont support afl.
3 hid every peice of bad publicity under the carpet.
You may have more you can expand on, i dought it.
The next tv rights deal will give rugby league a 200 million war chest. Bring it on hey redb. Yes ok, i will bring it on baby.
October 7th 2009 @ 11:40am
James said | October 7th 2009 @ 11:40am | Report comment
Funny…the first 10 years of the Brisbane Bears and first 15 years of the Sydney Swans were characterised by no interest and 5,000-10,000 crowds (i.e. average for the NRL). 99% by expats. I would say they have come a long way in that time.
Next 5 years will be tough for Gold Coast and even tougher for Western Sydney. But the AFL can do it. $1 billion TV rights deal, Money pouring in from the passionate supporters in the Southern States, and no need to worry about the future of the 10 Vic clubs with the single most important factor being cleaned up with MCG and Etihad.
International Rules? Thank God they got rid of it. Focus every and all energies and monies into WLD/NSW. Money to burn Oikee and it will be pumped right into your backyard.
October 7th 2009 @ 3:54pm
oikee said | October 7th 2009 @ 3:54pm | Report comment
Yes, money pumped into proping teams up, very good, you do realise James that the NRL is pumping not a dollar into expansion, its coming from the areas and sponsers that want a team. I have mentioned this before, expanding the AFL will put the brakes on for 20 years with prop up money, do you think i make these comments just for fun.
So 1 biilion, lets say they make 1 billion, fine, if rugby league only makes 700 million, thats 200 million more than what it makes now, hence my 200 million war chest thoery.
That my friend wont be going into Melbourne, the storm already have their destiny secured, that my friend is going into grass roots, in your backyard. And island and PNG devolopment. How’s that grab you.
You see, league is not trying to push itself down your throat.
October 7th 2009 @ 4:40pm
James said | October 7th 2009 @ 4:40pm | Report comment
Tassie, with a population of half a million, have been trying to get a team in the AFL for decades, but the AFL ignores them…why? Because to grow and increase your brand, you need to look outside your traditional areas. Sure, its important to keep the home base solid and happy, and with the MCG and Etihad deals stiched up, the biggest financial headache for Melbourne based clubs has been solved.
Tasmania has been assured by the AFL that they are next…do you think they will just switch to Rugby league?
Even the Southport Sharks on the Gold Coast have been trying for years to get an AFL licence (since 1996 I believe). The AFL have decided now is the time to acto on the Coast. Ditto West Sydney.
Its not about shoving it down someones throat..its giving people a greater choice.
When News Limited pull out of the Storm, who do you think is going to prop them up? The people of Melbourne? Ha!
October 7th 2009 @ 11:40am
Republican said | October 7th 2009 @ 11:40am | Report comment
Oikee.
Your sentiment poses the question – will the day come when there will be no audience required for League whatsoever, given that you consider it tailor made for tele. I agree that AFL is a much better spectacle live? Will future League punters be predominately viewing from the comfort of their home or at the club and is this indeed the future for all codes? I hope not.
I certainly notice in telivised Union, Soccer and League fixtures that the camera pans to the many empty bleachers by mistake at times which makes it all look a bit sad really.
I have to agree that League has done very well to claw its way back after the damage done by the ‘Super League’ fiasco and as an Aust Footy supporter and one who always considered Union a game of superior dimension, I now appreciate League more than in the past. The state of origin spectacle for my money, is the best League you could watch anywhere in the world whereas Union at all levels has degenerated into a yawn fest and is destined to suffer a slow and humiliating death in this country, which it probably deserves.
October 7th 2009 @ 12:01pm
oikee said | October 7th 2009 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
Republican, you seem to think i have a downer on Rugby Union, no way, i dislike the rules and dont like the way they use private schools to spread the game. It comes across as elietist, then they complain about both. Not having veiwers and not liking the rules.
I have always disliked Dinosaurs running rugby league. We have nearly fixed this problem. Not before time.
Rugby Union is light years ahead of League internationally. I admire them for this, but in a sense, its affected their top end performance. League has fixed the game really before it has made true progress at international level. This i like.
As for showing seats with no one in them, you dont watch too much AFL do you? Have alook some time, not at the big blockbusters, but just a normal game, its deserted and looks lifeless without crowds. Thats why i always say that a 10 thousand crowd at a league game is as good as a 30 thousand crowd at a AFL game.
The biggest crowds watch on t/v. Nothing like being at the game. I do love the buzz of origin in Brisbane.
We dont need big stadium to produce the same atmosphere. Crowds are closer to action. You should understand this if you have been to a All-blacks or Wallaby game. The storm will be good at the new stadium.
October 7th 2009 @ 12:29pm
prowling panther said | October 7th 2009 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
BRING ON JOHHNNYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
alas its probably some crap the daily smellagraph made up
October 7th 2009 @ 12:35pm
Mick from Giralang said | October 7th 2009 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
John Howard is overseas at the moment but his spokesman has apparently told ABC “no comment” about the possibility of heading up an independent commission to run the game. There are some poweful forces behind this push, which would unleash the true potential of the game in Australia, and end its subsevience to various vested interests. Whether John Howard is the right man to head it up is open to debate. But having a former prime minister as the boss probably isn’t a bad start.
October 7th 2009 @ 12:36pm
prowling panther said | October 7th 2009 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
last week i read they were going to construct rl hq for administration of the game
its coming people… rugby league is about to boom under an independent commission
which = no news ltd
wooooooooooooooooooooooohoooooooooooooooooooooooooo
October 7th 2009 @ 12:36pm
Mick from Giralang said | October 7th 2009 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
Republican: …”I now appreciate League more than in the past.”
I’m framing this and it’s going straight to the pool room…
October 7th 2009 @ 12:42pm
oikee said | October 7th 2009 @ 12:42pm | Report comment
At least someone will know what they are doing.
Good ole Jonny, welcome back son. 
October 7th 2009 @ 1:07pm
chook said | October 7th 2009 @ 1:07pm | Report comment
I think with the backing of News Ltd. league will never die. For such clubs as the Broncos, Storm, Cowboys they have a constant media friend and total contol in (Brisbane and Townsville anyway) of PR. Have a look at the back pages for the cities sport pages it take up the 70% of the sport. The fact that the smaller Sydney clubs struggle plays rigth into thier hands. News are just waiting to have them move for a second Brisbane side.
But in saying all of that the if you see that News Ltd start off loading thier percentage of the ownership
70% Broncos
100% Cowboys
50% Storm
league should look over its shoulder, the success weather we like it or not is thanks to Rupert Murdoch
October 7th 2009 @ 1:18pm
prowling panther said | October 7th 2009 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
rl dominates sports pages in qld because it is what the people want to read about
only problem with exit of NEWS is storm
yet im sure an independent comission can underwrite them until they grow a solid base
they have the greatest potential of all teams in the league being a one city/state team. its only a matter of time until they can start turning in a profit
cowboys no longer have zilch to do with news ltd
NEWS as a whole is worse for league than the competition of AFL in heartland areas
October 7th 2009 @ 1:20pm
Redb said | October 7th 2009 @ 1:20pm | Report comment
Chook,
Agree. I’ve said many times about News Ltd pulling out of rugby leauge that you should be careful what you wish for.
A big brother like News Ltd can be invaluable. People are only look at the bad aspects.
If RL established an independent commissoon free of News Ltd, they are also then free to engage with other sports, like the AFL in a media partnership beyond advertising.
Redb
October 7th 2009 @ 1:29pm
Michael B said | October 7th 2009 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
If the NRL was getting its monies worth on TV rights, then they would be able to prop up expansion teams (ala AFL with WS / GC) whilst they build support.
Without Rugby League, Foxtel would struggle big time, esp in the northern states, where penetration is quite high.
October 7th 2009 @ 1:41pm
Redb said | October 7th 2009 @ 1:41pm | Report comment
Yes i know penetration of Foxtel is much higher in the northern markets that account for the better ratings NRL gets, but the AFL ratings are improving as penetration increases.
Foxtel might just struggle anyway given the new digital channels.
News Ltd exit out of the NRL, might prove to be an opportunity for the AFL in many ways but perhaps without selling the farm.
October 7th 2009 @ 2:28pm
Michael B said | October 7th 2009 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
As long as Foxtel keeps the sports rights to
1. NRL
2. AFL
3. HAL and Socceroos
4. EPL
5. Super Rugby
they will still maintain market share.
At this moment, NRL is their best performer out of the lot.
October 7th 2009 @ 5:35pm
John Ryan said | October 7th 2009 @ 5:35pm | Report comment
New Ltd all ready has an agreement with the AFL to only print positive news about that crowd so your a bit late there old son
October 7th 2009 @ 1:23pm
Michael B said | October 7th 2009 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
News Limited is the worst thing to happen to League. Before they came along, League was in great shape. News Ltd led Super League put the game on its knees.
The reason it gets so much media on the game in those cities is because it warrants it. They get healthy crowds and TV ratings, so there is demand for it. Pretty simple.
Remember, League has been around for 100 + years, NRL (50% owned by News Ltd) has been around for just over 10 years.
Your comments could not be more wrong.
October 7th 2009 @ 1:43pm
chook said | October 7th 2009 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
News Ltd only looks at the $$$ side of things similar to PBL why do you think they bought into Betfair, who adds are constantly run during the games. I have even noticed Ray Warren slipping in a add during the call. PS a UK company own the other half.
Where there is a dollar to be made of the public, News, PBL etc are never far from the action.
But News Ltd whilst isnt block by tradition make the hard calls that has made league succesful.
Like it or not News is one of the piece in the puzzle that make league a success in Australia
Look at the terrible time league has had with off field issues 2008 -2009 it would have really dented other sports in Australia ( possibly not AFL ) but league has grown more people watching , more members, more money, even more female supporters.
It league any better from 2007 ? Not really same game
So league success is either people really like the bad boys, off field action or it the media News / PBL help .
News. PBL have saved league from itself.
October 7th 2009 @ 2:13pm
Michael B said | October 7th 2009 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
You’ll find that its actually Centrebet which Ray Warren spruiks during games, not Betfair. Different companies, as far as i’m aware. Centrebet are sponsors for channel 9 league coverage.
I can’t understand what you mean about the fact that News Ltd and PBL help league? Whenever there is any off field incidents, you’ll find that News Ltd and channel 9 are all over it. Lead stories and front page news in some instances. It gets reported on big time, there is nothing being swept under the carpet. So not sure where you are coming from here.
As I said before, League was in its best shape before New Ltd came along. Super League sent the game backwards 10 years. I can’t see how this helped the game.
October 7th 2009 @ 2:37pm
Mick from Giralang said | October 7th 2009 @ 2:37pm | Report comment
Rugby league was by any measure an outstanding success in the 1980s early 90s with solid expansions taking root — and all this without the help of News Limited. Of course the game’s darkest days co-oncided with News Limited becoming involved.
All genuiine rugby league supporters are praying for the day this mob gets the hell out of our game.
October 7th 2009 @ 6:39pm
macavity said | October 7th 2009 @ 6:39pm | Report comment
Spot on Mick – RL thrives in spite of News, not because of it.
I am astounded that any RL fan would think News have done ANYTHING good for our game.
RL was all encompassing in the northern states pre-1995 – even those who weren’t fanatical still had a team and knew how they were doing. All the kids played RL in the playground. Very few even knew what victorian football looked like.
We will probably never get back there, thanks almost solely to News.
October 7th 2009 @ 1:59pm
Dogs Of War said | October 7th 2009 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
News LTd doesn’t own the Cowboys anymore.
100% Storm ownership and an interest in the Bronco’s, which is the one they will keep. Storm will probably be sold once the Independent Commission is created.
October 7th 2009 @ 2:22pm
Michael B said | October 7th 2009 @ 2:22pm | Report comment
Broncos make a pretty handy profit, so it would be unwise for News Ltd to remove its interests from them.
Storm should now be demanding more sponsorship $$$ with its success and coverage its been getting.
October 8th 2009 @ 9:18pm
Dogs Of War said | October 8th 2009 @ 9:18pm | Report comment
Storm are already one of the highest sponsored teams in the league. I would suggest that a lot of the cash they are bleeding is due to them trying to get people interested in a hostile market.
October 8th 2009 @ 9:02pm
Fly on the Wall said | October 8th 2009 @ 9:02pm | Report comment
utter crap. League was in good shape mid-90s. Arko and Quayle were a bit old-fashioned but most of the clubs were happy.
Ribot and the Broncos wanted to kick out half the Sydney clubs and create a much smaller national comp to maximise revenue from the newly created Pay TV market – dominated by guess who, Darth Murdoch. Having 9-10 clubs in Sydney would have held back the pots of money about to pour in… supposedly.
Look at it now – no Perth, Adelaide, Hunter, or SE Qld – and only two Sydney mergers. People want a tribal game, not some Starbucks / McDonalds franchise that can move around to suit Darth Murdoch’s cash flow needs.
Hey, if he wants a Perth team, why not divorce his Chinese wife for a WA girl? That’s his usual tactics to win influence.
October 7th 2009 @ 1:13pm
Republican said | October 7th 2009 @ 1:13pm | Report comment
Mick from Giralang.
I’m lookling for something worthwhile to hang in ‘The Billiard Room’ mate – anything in the offing?
October 7th 2009 @ 2:40pm
Mick from Giralang said | October 7th 2009 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
Yes mate…how’s this?
Rugby league takes the points in capital
Canberra is officially a rugby league city.
With an AFL grand final and two rugby league preliminary finals games, it was always going to be a big weekend of sport.
In the capital, the crowd favourite was Friday’s clash between the Eels and the Bulldogs which scored a whopping average audience of more than 100,000.
The AFL grand final attracted an average audience of only around 47,000, scraping in at 10th on the most watched program list.
The Canberra Times
October 7th 2009 @ 2:47pm
Redb said | October 7th 2009 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
Friday night prime time versus Sat arvo – what a surprise.
The NRL have a Canberra team, the AFL don’t , another.
October 7th 2009 @ 2:49pm
Mick from Giralang said | October 7th 2009 @ 2:49pm | Report comment
And I can’t wait to see the NRL grand final figures for Canberra…
October 7th 2009 @ 2:55pm
Redb said | October 7th 2009 @ 2:55pm | Report comment
does anyone seriously think Canberra is an AFL stronghold?…the game lost mometum over 20 years ago.
The Raiders and Brumbies have since stolen the march.
That’s why codes are looking to expand, without a local parochial team the game can whither on the vine.
Redb
October 7th 2009 @ 3:22pm
oikee said | October 7th 2009 @ 3:22pm | Report comment
Nicely put Redb, and is what i said once before, the AFL expanding days are over after these next 2 teams.
Which brings me back to rugby league again, what a lovely future we have, Perth to Conquer and Aderlaide, also we might take tassie while we are at it, we only need 10 thousand to support a team.
During this time the game should be close to expanding to 100 countries.
Notice any fimilarlarities to Gaelic footy redb, that game has never taken the UK by storm now has it. ? No, its considered a joke in the UK.
You cant go though life feeding the birds (seagulls at the MCG) all your life, their is a real world outside Melbourne. Get on a train (Hayne train, FuiFui Moi Moi express) and see what the rest of us already know, the real Kangaroos play rugby league. Cheers mate.
October 7th 2009 @ 4:10pm
James said | October 7th 2009 @ 4:10pm | Report comment
I disagree…I think the AFL has all before it. I think the Gold Coast and West Sydney represent a tremendous opportunity. It will certainly require a decade of investment, but so did the Brisbane Bears and the Sydney Swans. I think the potential rewards are very enticing. Tasmania is officially the next one up…should a VIC team fail. If it doesn’t, then the AFL (which would not want a bye) could look to pair it up with perhaps a third Perth team…which is growing gangbusters in terms of population and economy (the WA teams are going fine…even Freo with its crap record gets a regular 35k to Subi, and West Coast have a waiting list). After that, in the next 20 years or so….Canberra could be a possibility, or perhaps even Darwin (its pop is expected to hit 200,000 by 2030…i.e same as Geelong now). Canberra is made up of people all over Australia, and the Northern Territory has the highest number of individuals playing AFL per capita out of all the states and territories.
As for the NRL, I think you will never make it Tassie or Adelaide. I will concede Perth is a chance with its massive expat British and South African population.
So there are choices, for the AFL but clearly the biggest potential is West Sydney and to a lesser extent the gold coast. You don’t expand for expansions sake…you consolidate and choose your new markets wisely, and then you go hell for leather to make them work. I think the AFL is best positioned out of all the codes at the moment…I think you know that too Oikee
October 7th 2009 @ 4:24pm
Dogs Of War said | October 7th 2009 @ 4:24pm | Report comment
James, I think you overlook that the NRL is able to take advantage of smaller areas much more easily than the AFL can. So areas like the Sunshine Coast are great for the NRL, as other areas it already has teams in like Nth Qld and Newcastle, which AFL will struggle to ever get a team in. So for expansions, the NRL has plenty of areas to put dots on the map, and some of those aren’t even in this country, another thing that AFL will never be able to do.
Remember, this is a golden period for the AFL. While the NRL is only slowly starting to get it’s act together after the war. AFL had it’s best opportunity to covert us all during Super League, and it failed to conqueror, how West Sydney affects the Swans will be interesting, did the AFL factor in propping up 3 teams? Maybe even 4?
October 7th 2009 @ 4:33pm
oikee said | October 7th 2009 @ 4:33pm | Report comment
Yes, dont get me wrong, i agree that the AFL has taken the game to the right markets, as DOW has said, their is numbers to support the game, but if it needs propping up, this can effect your future earnings. Remember, you have 2 new teams to support.
As for Aderlaide, Perth, well we have taken games their this year, next year they are doing likewise. They got reasonable numbers to those games. And Perth is screaming out for a team, next year you might have a clearer picture.
We only need to cater for Perth, if Aderlaide gets left out thats their problem, you watch them scream when they dont have a team. The rams were well supported.
October 8th 2009 @ 8:51am
Michael C said | October 8th 2009 @ 8:51am | Report comment
Guys –
re ‘smaller’ areas and the AFL,
actually the reverse might be true….if only it were tested.
why?
Firstly – example of Geelong. Due to a good stadium set up/deal, they pocket $600K profit from a home crowd of about 22,000. Compare that to current Melbourne clubs being drowned at Etihad.
Secondly – players are drawn from the central pool – so to speak – of the AFL draft process. AFL clubs are not given the task of junior development etc. Dedicated systems are in place for that.
Thirdly – relative isolation of regional area. Not all regional areas are so isolated. Wollongong in the NRL has merged with a Southern Sydney side anyway. Central Coast in the HAL is full of Sydney commuters and weekenders. Gold Coast is to Brisbane as Geelong is to Melbourne. These ‘regional’ areas are pretty well ‘satellites’ of large population hubs. In this sense, Ballarat/Bendigo – being just an hour(ish) up the road from Melbourne might well be reasonable at least co-hosting venues in the future. Albury-Wodonga is just that hour too far perhaps??
Newcastle is a tad more isolated, but, is any almost direct extension of the population corridor that includes the Central Coast and is on the major transport routes b/w Brisbane and Sydney.
Canberra however, is reasonably isolated and is an out of the way location – - i.e. you don’t go through it to get anywhere other than for Sydney folk to the NSW snowfields.
Townsville is way out of the way.
Those are oddities in national professional leagues. And help illustrate why Tasmania, especially given the north-south split – is of limited attractiveness. Also why Darwin is so unattractive.
Beyond that – for a league – it helps to have a reasonable favourable population presence – expats, existing grass roots participation. Can the AFL perhaps make West Sydney work in conjunction with sth-wst NSW markets and the Swans with the northern corridor?
October 7th 2009 @ 6:25pm
Chris said | October 7th 2009 @ 6:25pm | Report comment
I live in Canberra so I will clear this up:
It’s Union First, League Second and AFL Third.
October 7th 2009 @ 6:45pm
macavity said | October 7th 2009 @ 6:45pm | Report comment
public service and all that, I got plenty of uni mates down there (including a died-in-the-wool WCE AFL nut) and they all tell me its league first, soccer, union then AFL….
I will add the feedback is that the “transient” population (including my mates) stick to what they know and pick up union as the secondary, “fashionable” interest…. a fan of another RL team will cheer on the Brumbies but not the Raiders, if that makes sense.
wouldn’t happen to be a union fan would you Chris?
October 7th 2009 @ 9:31pm
Kurt said | October 7th 2009 @ 9:31pm | Report comment
Newsflash Mick, Canberra has been a league town since the great Raiders teams of the 80s. Trumpeting this fact is a little like an AFL fan boasting that their sport is bigger than league in Geelong.