Suggestions for kickstarting the Waratahs in 2010
Roar Pro
By Phil O'Donovan, 8 Oct 2009 The Crowd is a Roar Pro
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- Rugby Union, Super Rugby, Waratahs
101 Have your say
The Waratahs' Tatafu Polota-Nau is tackled determined Western Force defence during the Super 14 match between the Waratahs and the Western Force at the Sydney Football Stadium, Saturday, April 18, 2009. Western Force beat the Waratahs 15-14. AAP Image/Dean Lewins
It amazes me how the image and support of the Waratahs continues to be diminished. They have a great venue and location in Paddington, a significant support base of members of the SCG and SFS who do not have to pay, and yet they struggle with very poor crowds.
No doubt the unattractive rugby they have played has contributed to this. But there are other more fundamental problems.
I am certain that no one would object to the administrators of the Waratahs taking a fact-finding trip to the Sharks and the Bulls, the Crusaders, Wasps, Leicester and, in particular, Munster in Ireland.
There is nothing wrong with copying successful franchises or rugby sides.
On a more basic level, why they do not allow school children in for a minimum charge ($2 or even $5). They would make money out of the fast food purchased.
And they should have a couple of matches on before, such as Joey’s Vs Kings, Easts Vs Randwick, or Country Vs City.
The future of rugby belongs to today’s school children. I haven’t seen so many children at a rugby match as the occasions I saw Munster play.
These to me are very basic and logical initiatives, and yet year after year, the Waratahs plod along on the same dreary road.
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Chris said | October 8th 2009 @ 7:10am | Report comment
Phil, the Tah’s don’t need to travel thousands of km’s for a fact finding trip, in fact a trip 300km down the Hume would be more than sufficient.
The best thing the Tah’s could do is play a few more games at Homebush, they got a very good crowd last time they tried it (plus if they do it enough it would go some way to shedding their “North Shore Waratahs” image).
Rusty said | October 8th 2009 @ 8:28am | Report comment
Sorry Chris – to my mind that is the worst idea ever. Homebush is a supporters nightmare, I hate going out there due to the transport and lack of post match entertainment. Besides, the crowd pulled into the SFS would be swallowed whole at Homebush and provide poor atmosphere
Chris said | October 8th 2009 @ 9:01am | Report comment
That didn’t seem to deter the 35,000 who turned up to the last game there. As a Canberran I don’t have any particular preference – but I’ve been to both the SFS and Homebush several times and can tell you I immensely prefer Homebush.
I realise the SFS is probably a better venue to watch Rugby but it does nothing to encourage the several million people living in Western Sydney to turn out to Waratahs games. With the AFL making some serious inroads in traditional Sydney Rugby Union territory the Tah’s cannot survive exclusively on the patronage of people from the North Shore/Eastern Suburbs.
Harry Wombat said | October 8th 2009 @ 7:27am | Report comment
Easy don’t play Friday night games. Its a killer to get to the ground from any north or western location and if you want to take the kids along you have to get home turn around and then come back fighting the traffic all the way. Saturday evenings would be the perfect time, you have a couple of juniors games or even a shute shield game and juniors game in the late afternoon and then bring on the big game. 3 games for the price of one, easy.
Grimmace said | October 8th 2009 @ 7:40am | Report comment
It is constantly suggested here that more need to be done to incourage kids to get into rugby. All great ideas Phil, school games and country games will give two groups who are currently feeling neglected by NSWRU something to smile about and bring differend demographics of support with them. The Shute Shield seems to have grown in popularity, have some club games prior so the punters can make an afternoon/evening of it.
i’m flogging a dead horse with this one, but afternoon S14 games are family friendly, although not TV and club football friendly.
Let the kids in for free, they’ll be annoying mum and dad all night for more money for junk food and more than make up for their admission.
Nird99 said | October 8th 2009 @ 11:49am | Report comment
I have a son who has just started to play junior rugby and all junior players in the ACT get in for free. It is a part of their registration. They get a general admission seat and the catch is that they need to be accompianied by an adult. The cost for general admission ticket is as cheap as $20 at Canberra stadium. There is always a pre game game at Canberra stadium. It might be Canberra Grammar V … or the brumby runners V …. but they always have something. I think the Brumbies do quite well to have 8-10 thousand members. crowds are often around the 13-14 thousand mark for the lesser games and 20-25 for the big games (such as v the tahs) and this is in a climate that is not conducive to being outside to watch rugby. I have been a member for 4 years now and love taking my kids (who i have membership for as well)
Axel said | October 8th 2009 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
I cant believe that NSW would charge their junior players to come and watch. The Brumbies have been free to junior players since day 1. Surely this is a cheap way to build loyalty – something NSW rugby has been short on for many years
Yikes said | October 8th 2009 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
The reason Axel, is that the SFS does not have a General Admission area like Canberra Stadium. That means every seat must have a ticket.
And if you have 20,000 juniors (the Brumbies have 4,000) then you can hardly offer everyone a seat can you?
fox said | October 8th 2009 @ 7:53am | Report comment
I think to some extent that the problerm lies with us, the fans. I don’t know how many times I have sat in the crowd and been pretty much the sole voice of support for the Tahs. So much for home crowd advantage. People show up to the game like it’s polo and refuse to stand or cheer, lest they crinkle their Polo shirt I imagine. ‘One simply cannot show any emotion and oh those boys down there making all that noise – ghastly! Rah rah!’ This is at its most obvious during clashes with the Reds. The Reds are fired up, the Reds fans are fired up. But the only noise you can here at the SFS for this alleged derby is that of the occassional Reds fan. Waratahs supporters just sit there and expect to be entertained. How about everyone get off the seat of your chinos and support your team?! I was so isolated in my support one year that my (rather pedestrian, not ugly) heckling of Wendell Sailor (when he played for the Reds) – which I believed was my role as a fan – was actually heard by Wendell himself. The silence around me led him to run back from scoring a try to celebrate right in front of me. It was funny and he deserved his revenge, but come on, there was not one other fan in the whole stadium that said so much as ‘boo’ all game. It’s the Reds! Try going to this same fixture up north and feel how much passion the fans show. It’s no wonder the Reds constantly fight above their weight against us! I guarantee that if we the fans create atmosphere then bigger and better crowds will flow through the gates. At best it might even spark some attacking rugby from our team and help us to a title! Too often individual fans who attempt to vocalise their support are met with glowering looks or shaking of heads, as if it’s not appropriate to cheer?! In a sense it’s a terrible indictment of the culture of NSW rugby, but we can enforce a changing of the guard and attract new and better crowds.
All that aside, moving to Homebush is not an option. I don’t think the Wallabies should even play there. It’s a cemetery with no atmosphere – and there is little enough atmosphere at a Waratahs game anyway. Take as an example the Crusaders game this year, played at Homebush. It immediately stripped us of homne ground advantage and also allowed more Crusaders fans to attend. This was a match we should have won. They had no Dan Carter or Richie McCaw. Yet we lost horribly. I believe the venue was a contributing factor.
Friday night games may not be best for families. That’s a shame. But they do bring in the corporates and that sells a lot of tickets. Admittedly these tickets are generally used for entertaining clients who may not be very passionate Tahs fans and so don;t add to atmosphere, but it’s a necessary evil. There should be a healthy miox of Friday night and late Saturday arvo games (the afternoons are problematic as u don;t want to schedule matches that conflict with club and junior rugby). Club and school games before the match is a great idea though. I would support that.
In short, take some responsibility on yourselves as fans. Go to the game and be vocal. Yell your support for the Tahs. Stand and cheer quality attacking runs and plays as well as big tackles and great defensive strategies – and don’t let the conservatives and old fogies behind you bother you when they ask you to sit down! This is sport and the contest should make you get to your feet. If the majority do that it will be a pleasure to attend a Tahs fixture no matter the time and date.
Rusty said | October 8th 2009 @ 8:32am | Report comment
” Stand and cheer quality attacking runs and plays as well as big tackles and great defensive strategies ” – theres your problem
fox said | October 8th 2009 @ 8:35am | Report comment
Was pretty sure someone would point that out (though defense is not a problem). Perhaps the roar of the crowd can help inspire?
Bill said | October 8th 2009 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
No worries Fox I will be your back up in 2010. If the Tahs play to the same conservative style of this season i’ll be yelling the old chestnut “have a go ya mug!”
drew said | October 9th 2009 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
Rusty, you are on the mark. If it was an entertaining product people would go, but the reality is it is not. Consequence bad crowds. This is compounded by the price of the tickets. Far to expensive.
Bay35Pablo said | October 8th 2009 @ 9:07am | Report comment
Fox, come sit down the front of bay 35 some time. The repeat members down there roll their eyes at the beginning of every season when they see we are back again (next year will be 8 years). But we know each other and it’s good fun. Part of the fun being able to take the mickey out of the opposition, the ref, the touchie and our own players (occasionally when deserved, and usually it was Lote’s boots). We got yellow carded by the ref once, I think it was Tappe henning. And we got the Wendell Glare too after a try. Were you down there too … ? I think it was our constant reference to him as “The Poodle”, and the call by one of our boys “You’ll never see another Wallaby cap again …” 30 seconds before his try.
However, I agree there crowd is too quiet. generally Aussie rugby crowds aren’t loud or enthusiastic. When you see other countries, they make us look like a bunch of trainspotters.
But we’re doing our bit down the front of Bay 35.
fox said | October 8th 2009 @ 10:07am | Report comment
I was a season ticket holder back then and was in Bay 14 or 15 from memory. I was lucky enough to sit next to two fellas who shared my sense of humour and loved to stretch the lungs at the game. Sadly enough we were an oasis. I subsequently cancelled my season pass after writing a letter to the board to voice my complaints at the time following a number of bad governance decisions (no surprises there!) and some very poor selection and team/sqaud management. I have not been back since except as a guest up in the boxes. Those guest passes dried up though with a change of sponsor and I began to consider returning for another season pass, however, the decision to play at Homebush for one game (and always the season highligh fixture) as well as some very poor quality play last season has meant I am again sitting on the bench. I will play it by ear this season, but when I do come down I’ll definitely try and get Bay 35! Sounds like you guys are leading from the front!
Bay35Pablo said | October 8th 2009 @ 5:13pm | Report comment
Fox, the western side of the ground are all pu$$ies. Kicking it …. East side. We’re all from out Eastwood/Epping/Hills way originally, so no opera buffs amongst us.
Take a look at the season pass next year, is just the S14 games and club final. Ask for a ticket in Bay 35 and they’ll probably give you a choice ….
Pete said | October 8th 2009 @ 11:23am | Report comment
Fox – “I’ve been pretty much the sole voice of support for the Tahs” so that’s you is it… next time would you please keep it down, I’m trying to watch a game of rugby
i agree, the atmosphere is quite poor… I know, lets let the kids in, they seem to have unbridled enthusiasm and will cheer at everything..
fox said | October 8th 2009 @ 11:43am | Report comment
Sorry old boy. Rah!
Jameswm said | October 8th 2009 @ 8:38am | Report comment
I think
- some afternoon games – 1 or 2 a season. Maybe one Friday night game. What about a 6pm home game and the Brumbies can play at 8pm? I guess that clashes with the Kiwi 7:30pm games, which is 5:30pm in Aust.
- let kids in cheaper is a good idea, however I don’t think any of the money they spend on fast food goes to the Tahs
– The problem with curtain raisers is there is a SANZAR rule that the field must be cleared for 45 mins before a game. Sydney and rugby crowds get there notoriously late. I do like curtain raisers though – how about not just school and club games – play an U15 MNZ club game between Newport and Gordon there, for example. Next time a club game. And yeah a Joeys vs Riverview type of game would be awesome, or Knox vs Waverley
- no games at Homebush thanks, unless they are absolute blockbusters. The SFS is one of the best rugby grounds.
Jimmo said | October 8th 2009 @ 9:13am | Report comment
Bloody hell, this comment could well be the embodiment of the Old Boy stereotype in NSW Rugby!
Just move the Brumbies game because the Tahs can’t get a crowd (who cares about them!), have an all Private School curtain raiser and no games out West!
That is exactly the kind of thinking that got NSW Rugby where it is right now.
Hendo said | October 8th 2009 @ 8:50am | Report comment
Every home game should be an early Friday night game at Homebush – and don’t give Berrick a run – just sit him on the Bench
Yikes said | October 8th 2009 @ 9:00am | Report comment
Phil, jameswm has covered the basics. But, to respond to your article and points others made (especially Grimmace) in more detail:
1) Curtain raisers. There has been a curtain raiser game at every Tahs match for 2 years now. You often don’t see it since the teams need 35 mins to warm up on field before the game. But Premier Club rugby games, Country rugby games (Caldwell Cup GF), Subbies Rugby, even the Army vs Navy has been played as a curtain raisers. The pubic asked for this – and then no one turns up to watch them. They also cost a squillion $$ because the venue has to be opened early which costs for security, staff, vendors, etc etc.
2) Free tickets for juniors. Juniors and schools have been given large allotments of free tickets to all Waratahs games for the last 3 years. There is one game (the ‘March Past’) which has every junior club given free tickets to players who march on field before the game. Of course the other side of this argument is – make it so easy to access free tickets, and who would ever buy one?
3) Jameswm is correct. NSWRU make NOT ONE CENT from food, drink, parking, etc at the games. There is no logic whatsoever to the argument that the Tahs make money from food when giving out free tickets. They don’t.
4) Friday games. NSWRU are largely at the mercy of SANZAR scheduling here. Every year they ask for fewer Friday and more Saturday games, every year so do the Reds and Brumbies!! So it’s not like the Waratahs are idiots saying to themselves “Gee, why don’t we have a couple of Fridays?” They have no choice.
5) Homebush. Back in 2006, NSWRU made a deal to remain at the SFS instead of move full-time to Homebush. This agreement had the Tahs playing 1 game a year there from 2009, and 2 games a year from 2011. This is generally popular amongst non-dedicated fans (ie non-North Shore people) and very unpopular amongst members (ie North Shore people). But that’s the price they paid to ensure the Tahs can continue at SFS and remain financially viable.
Midfielder said | October 8th 2009 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Move the matches to Parramatta Stadium …. the center of the city…
Harry Wombat said | October 8th 2009 @ 9:19am | Report comment
Now we’re talking, and have a few Parra rep games (especially the U14′s) as curtain raisers.
True Tah said | October 8th 2009 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
That would be a great idea, but I doubt it would ever happen.
Bay35Pablo said | October 8th 2009 @ 9:16am | Report comment
Homebush is garbage. The crowd there was large (40-50K?), and swallowed up by the ground. And I was disappointed in the numbers. it was lower than it could have been had we been playing attractive and well. But we are locked into it for years to come. Look for that $1m cash advance in the NSWRU report which they don’t start earning until 2014. Look also for the $1.5m annual rebate from the SFS.
Afternoon games would be better especially with a curtain raiser, but aren’t TV friendly.
They did have some curtain raisers this year, but half of them were Junior Waratahs from memory. I recall Navy v Army, and Subbies v Country also being staged. However, there was little advertising of this, and we usually turned up to see the 2nd half by accident. This was only once they closed the Tah bar (for no apparent reason) halfway through the season, and we started going to the Bundy bar. However, part of the problem was also the games weren’t that attractive. I’d rather see Warringah v Wicks than Junior Tahs v Junior Reds, sorry.
Having a Shute Shield game as a well advertised double header would be good. However, it wouldn’t be the match of the day, as this would have to start at 3pm for ABC TV.
Fact finding trip. They don’t have the money, and it wouldn’t go down too well anyway.
The real problem is playing poorly, and unattractive rugby. The season pass section we sit in has lost probably half the regulars over the last 3 years or so. The general comment in the last game of each season before they disappeared was “I’m not paying for this muck”. Some of these people were coming from the Mountains and Wollongong, so they were committed. Those seats haven’t been replaced by season members, and tend to be game by game obviously from the box office or Ticketek. if the hard core rusted on supporters are giving up, what hope for the fair weather fans or new chums?
We started buying our season passes after 2002, when we went to every game, but had problems getting decent seats bought late because the grounds were almost full. What happened to those glory days of crowd numbers? The fact the Wallabies were playing decent rugby in the years before probably helped ….
Nird99 said | October 8th 2009 @ 11:57am | Report comment
“I’d rather see Warringah v Wicks than Junior Tahs v Junior Reds, sorry.”
I have a problem that there is no development opportunities for our young players other than club rugby. is it such a bad idea to have junior tahs v reds games. it gives these guys a chance to play against the best and if they get three or 4 games a year against other aussie franchises then they are then 3 or 4 games better off for the experience.
Bay35Pablo said | October 8th 2009 @ 5:16pm | Report comment
Nird, fine, but make it mean something. have an Academy cup or something.
The real point with the curtain raisers, which Yikes neglects, is that they might spend squillions on opening the ground early, and then don’t plug it.
Or if they do, the bozos in marketing only include it in that email they always send after closing on Friday before the game evening to everyone’s work email addresses ….
Yikes said | October 8th 2009 @ 5:28pm | Report comment
How much marketing do you see even of the Waratahs? Not much. If there was spare cash to market, they’d be marketing the Tahs!
Not to mention that if one cent was spent marketing a curtain raiser of all things, all the nay-sayers from Rugby Australia would be down NSWRU’s throat asking why rugby was pissing their cash away in marketing instead of spending it on development. No?
Bay35Pablo said | October 10th 2009 @ 5:17pm | Report comment
Yikes, so when you have an ad for the Tahs (which they do have), it also trumpets the curtain raiser. Pretty simple. 2 for the price of 1. Everyone loves a deal.
“all the nay-sayers from Rugby Australia”. Nice to see you have pigeonholed an organisation that doesn’t even exist yet. And a proposed organisation whose avowed aim if it ever comes into existence is to try to assist development and leave the professional stuff to the professionals. So, No to your No.
I love it how you get general when your arguments get weak Yikes. It’s like a “tell” in poker.
Yikes said | October 12th 2009 @ 10:52pm | Report comment
And Bay, I like it how you get smug…. well, all the time really!
I believe all the ads for the Tahs games with curtain raisers included the details of the curtain raiser. I will check and have them put online for you if need be to see.
So “No to my no”? I don’t think so. You’d be the first one to line up a shot if you thought money was being spent that would be better off elsewhere.
As for pigeonholing anyone or anything, I am doing nothing of the sort. It is a matter of fact that the entire existence of Rugby Australia is on the basis that money is currently being spent on the wrong things – like marketing instead of development. In the words of Andrew Logan himself “the time is ripe for rebellion.”
Now this could be just arrogant bluster, and Rugby Australia could get down to brass tacks and actually work together with the Unions and achieve something. I hope so! I will try and take steps to make that happen.
But don’t for one minute suggest that I’m the one pigeonholing people when you spend your entire time on the Roar dismissing the efforts of the State Unions and ARU. You know, the “bozos”.
Mr Mac said | October 8th 2009 @ 9:54am | Report comment
Those who say Homebush has no atmosphere should look at the last two rugby leage games there – NRL grand final & the Canterbury v Parramatta semi then think back to the RWC Aust v NZ semi final
I feel they are really commenting on two things – the quality of whats on offer & and the nature of the fans attending
Bay35Pablo said | October 8th 2009 @ 5:18pm | Report comment
Mr Mac, no, what that proves is you need a full ground to get any atmosphere. Try going to all the NRl games with 10 or 20K. I have, and they suck. Would be much better at the SFS. Look at the recent games at Homebush against Wales etc which got poor crowds, then think about the Bar Bars game this year.
Mr Mac said | October 8th 2009 @ 9:48pm | Report comment
Pablo – 10K at most grounds “sucks”
Take Stade de France (RWC 07 Finals) this ground has a cycle track auround the perimeter but the crowds bring a spontaneous atmosphere and create character.
The best we can do is have Tah man or sing about Matilda.
Again, the quality of the product, as you state is an issue – half fill SFS & its pretty flat too – look at NRL club games at both grounds – 10K and they are cemeteries.