The Waratahs' Tatafu Polota-Nau is tackled determined Western Force defence during the Super 14 match between the Waratahs and the Western Force at the Sydney Football Stadium, Saturday, April 18, 2009. Western Force beat the Waratahs 15-14. AAP Image/Dean Lewins
It amazes me how the image and support of the Waratahs continues to be diminished. They have a great venue and location in Paddington, a significant support base of members of the SCG and SFS who do not have to pay, and yet they struggle with very poor crowds.
No doubt the unattractive rugby they have played has contributed to this. But there are other more fundamental problems.
I am certain that no one would object to the administrators of the Waratahs taking a fact-finding trip to the Sharks and the Bulls, the Crusaders, Wasps, Leicester and, in particular, Munster in Ireland.
There is nothing wrong with copying successful franchises or rugby sides.
On a more basic level, why they do not allow school children in for a minimum charge ($2 or even $5). They would make money out of the fast food purchased.
And they should have a couple of matches on before, such as Joey’s Vs Kings, Easts Vs Randwick, or Country Vs City.
The future of rugby belongs to today’s school children. I haven’t seen so many children at a rugby match as the occasions I saw Munster play.
These to me are very basic and logical initiatives, and yet year after year, the Waratahs plod along on the same dreary road.
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October 8th 2009 @ 9:55am
The Link said | October 8th 2009 @ 9:55am | Report comment
‘yet they struggle with very poor crowds’
since when have the Waratahs struggled for crowds? I thought 23k was a pretty good result considering the product on offer.
October 8th 2009 @ 10:24am
Jimmo said | October 8th 2009 @ 10:24am | Report comment
Not when considering that the Brumbies average 17,500 with a population of .3 million. Sydney with a population of 4.5 million should really be getting 30,000 minimum to every game.
October 8th 2009 @ 10:49am
Justin said | October 8th 2009 @ 10:49am | Report comment
23k isnt bad considering the woeful numbers they are getting in the Guiness Premiership so far this year. Besides the double header kicking off the season at Twicks (67k) the average would be under 10k per match.
Yes this is a little snipe to get the UK Roarers to tell us more about the crowds and rugby being played in England at present. For a game supposedly flying the numbers up there are very, and I am mean very, underwhelming…
October 8th 2009 @ 11:11am
Rusty said | October 8th 2009 @ 11:11am | Report comment
23k for city the size of Sydney with a team busting with Wallabies and a decent track record is pretty average..also I wouldnt snipe at the UK teams – all the major teams are struggling to find space to accomodate their punters with several teams building or expanding stadia. This is the sort of ferverent support the Tahs can only dream of or expect on the odd marque game.
October 8th 2009 @ 11:21am
Justin said | October 8th 2009 @ 11:21am | Report comment
Rusty – I thought the same but going on crowds so far this year in ENG many of the matches are not getting near capacity with some like Newcastle struggling to be half full…
October 8th 2009 @ 11:32am
Rusty said | October 8th 2009 @ 11:32am | Report comment
hmmm perhaps the early season murmors were just that then
October 8th 2009 @ 11:59am
fox said | October 8th 2009 @ 11:59am | Report comment
I dare say it’s because the UK economy has been completely annihilated. Lower asset prices and higher unemplyment mean that discretionary spending on such things as tickets to games go out the window in favour of staying home and watching it on pay TV, which is a fixed cost for many sports fans. While things aren’t so bad here I expect that ticket sales at waratah fixtures will suffer a similar fate. The NSWRU really has its work cut out for it this year if it’s to turn a profit.
October 8th 2009 @ 12:50pm
True Tah said | October 8th 2009 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
Justin
that is a bit below the belt, Saracens drew almost 45k to the game they held at Wembley, which incidentally is bigger than any Tahs crowd this season.
Leicester Tigers just increased the size of their stadium to 24,000, and last season Munster increased the capacity of Thomond Park to 26,000. The Waratahs crowds would comfortably fit into either stadium.
October 8th 2009 @ 1:47pm
Justin said | October 8th 2009 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
TT – that figure was included. Its not below thebelt just stating the facts… there have been some one off big crowds but most are very poorly attended.
October 8th 2009 @ 10:47am
Jameswm said | October 8th 2009 @ 10:47am | Report comment
Jimmo – when the Tahs have a good season, they average more than that – 34,000 a season. The fans are fickle though.
As for your other comment – as you’ve seen, games like Subbies vs Country or Junior Tahs vs Junior Brumbies get less interest than a Shute Shield game or a top GPS match. Like it or not, the private school background is a big part of rugby in NSW and you can’t simply denigrate it with some utopian vision of rugby for the masses. Ex-private school students underpin various parts of the game (no, not all obviously) and even many who didn’t go to Joeys or Kings or Scots would enjoy watching a game between two of them. The attitude, camaraderie and skill are usually fantastic.
I don’t know anyone who thinks Homebush is a better rugby stadium than the SFS. Leave the SFS and lose your home ground advantage, too. One a year will do if absolutely necessary. I’d prefer somewhere like Parra Stadium to Homebush.
By the way – to whoever said it, kids don’t get freebies to every game. I coach a junior team and we get freebies every now and then (behind the goal posts), but certainly not every game.
October 8th 2009 @ 11:00am
Mr Mac said | October 8th 2009 @ 11:00am | Report comment
James
Are you implying that Rugby in Sydney has to remain exclusive? I would hope not!
What I think Jimmo is trying to say is expand the game – go beyond what now exists.
Had the Western Sydney franchise become the 15th would the NS & ES based Tah fans have travelled to Penrith to watch them?
October 8th 2009 @ 12:20pm
Pete said | October 8th 2009 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
Yep! I even went to Campbelltown for the trial game to watch Tahu… So there’s one!
October 8th 2009 @ 11:41am
Yikes said | October 8th 2009 @ 11:41am | Report comment
Jameswm – free tickets are given out to every game to juniors. This doesn’t mean that every junior gets a free ticket to every game (that’s not possible), but that tickets are handed out.
October 8th 2009 @ 12:09pm
Pete said | October 8th 2009 @ 12:09pm | Report comment
“the private school background is a big part of rugby in NSW and you can’t simply denigrate it with some utopian vision of rugby for the masses”.. dear god, I hope this is a gee up or I’m misinterpretting your comment. I’m a GPS old boy and proud of that, but this exclusivity is exactly NOT what Rugby in NSW needs. If people want to watch GPS schools play each other go to those schools and watch them. I go to Waratah games with guys/girls from the UK, NZ and god forbid state schools.. they have no connection with the GPS system and would have no interest in the game. Would you rush to see a Scotch College 1st XVIII in Victoria play Melbourne Grammar at the MCG? I woudn’t…
October 8th 2009 @ 10:55am
Republican said | October 8th 2009 @ 10:55am | Report comment
The Brumby’s once boasted an average of 21g but this figure has been on the decline for some years now, nevertheless, nothing to be sneezed at given Canberras ‘country town’ status.
October 8th 2009 @ 11:24am
Jimmo said | October 8th 2009 @ 11:24am | Report comment
Yeah it was around 21k back in 2000-05. Gradually decreased to around 14k in 08 but picked up last year to 17k. GIven the Brumbies are probably going to be quite succesful over the next couple of seasons it wouldn’t at all surprise me to see it back in the low 20s soon (and quite possibly higher if the Super 15 does actually come about and bring more “derby” games).
October 8th 2009 @ 12:05pm
fox said | October 8th 2009 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
An economy under pressure (and it will still be in 2010 regardless the Rudd rhetoric or stimuli and the past 6 months of false confidence) will translate to lower ticket sales. 2010 will be a tough year for the NSWRU. Nevertheless if the Tahs continue not only winning, but winning well in 2010 (combined with it being a world cup year) it might just bring crowds back in droves in 2011.
Personally, I think I’m going to be either in the northern hemisphere or in Auckland most of next season, which may not be great for ticket sales (-1!), but will be great for those (Pete!) who’d like to watch their rugby at the game in peaceful serenity sans old Fox’s shouting and vocal support and with only the sound of crickets, frogs and the occassional twost of a pie packet to keep em company!
October 8th 2009 @ 12:17pm
Pete said | October 8th 2009 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
Thanks Fox I look forward to the piece and quiet
… actually I usually yell myself hoarse at the game. I though you were just my echo, nice to know that its a fellow fan!
October 8th 2009 @ 12:08pm
Jameswm said | October 8th 2009 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
Mr Mac of course I’m not implying that. Sheesh – some people are keen to take things the wrong way.
What I said was a response to someone scoffing at having a GPS match as a Waratahs curtain-raiser. I was saying that you can’t deny that the private schools are a significant part of NSW’s rugby community, but so too are subbies, 1st division clubs, juniors etc.
A GPS Comp match can attract a good crowd at the school ground – the top of the table games can get a couple of thousand to a game, many of whom never went to one of the schools.
Look at nos. 1-6 alone for this Wallabies squad though, to look at the influence.
Stephen Moore – Brisbane Grammar
Tatafu Polota-Nau – Knox
Damien Fitzpatrick – Joeys
Benn Robinson – Kings
Ben Alexander – Knox
Al Baxter – Shore
Ben McCalman – Kinross Walaroi at Orange
Dean Mumm – Kings
Mark Chisholm – Brisbane Grammar
Nathan Sharpe – Southport
Peter Kimlin (injured) – Canberra Grammar
Mitchell Chapman – Brisbane Grammar
Rocky Elsom – Nudgee College
October 8th 2009 @ 12:15pm
Pete said | October 8th 2009 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
.. and that is probably why we are struggling for depth and talent in this country. Move beyond the private school network and find some more talent. You never know the next Tatafu Polota-Nau (Granville South High School) may be around the corner.
October 8th 2009 @ 12:20pm
Axel said | October 8th 2009 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
How many of those guys got picked up by private schools when they showed promise at a public school or club side
October 8th 2009 @ 12:26pm
Pete said | October 8th 2009 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
You’re right, but the GPS etc schools shouldn’t be the only avenues. There are only so many places in a school 1st XV. Expand the number of schools playing it and open up the talent pool.
October 8th 2009 @ 12:53pm
True Tah said | October 8th 2009 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
I didnt realize Tatafu Polata-Nau went to Knox, I thought he went to Granville Boys high???????
October 8th 2009 @ 4:39pm
Chris said | October 8th 2009 @ 4:39pm | Report comment
He didn’t , I never saw him
October 8th 2009 @ 12:13pm
Rickety Knees said | October 8th 2009 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
Guys, there is no way that I am going to pay to watch a game of forcings back. The Tahs played the worst style of Rugby last year, and the year before and the year before that. It is the low risk bullshit that is driving this fan away. It was good to read Andy Friend’s dedication to going back to play running Rugby – Canberra Stadium will be packed to the rafters.
October 8th 2009 @ 12:29pm
Jameswm said | October 8th 2009 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
Phil Waugh did. TPN is another. Most were there the whole time though.
There are heaps of non-private school kids playing at S14 level, however consider this…
Research suggests that by age 12, you have most of the skills you need for the game and it is hard to really improve them after that for them to become 2nd nature. I was going to suggest that the private schools have an advantage because of the coaching they’ve had, but in my experience club players play more rugby at a higher elvel aged 8-12.
And there are many that play both club and school rugby.
As for the reliance on private school kids being the reason we’re struggling for depth…those 1st XV kids train 2-3 times a week, plus fitness sessions, recovery sessions and tactical talks. Club teams can’t really compete with that, bearing in mind the schools have more resources to hire professional coaches from the outside and can take advantage of sport being compulsory and doing things in school hours, lunch times etc. The kids who get excellent training as teenagers have a distinct advantage.
October 8th 2009 @ 5:23pm
Bay35Pablo said | October 8th 2009 @ 5:23pm | Report comment
Which is why I love tales like Justin Harrison starting playing at uni!!!
I also one the stories of when GPS teams come up against non-GPS schools and get touched up, and then find some excuse as to why they didn’t win. Don’t know if they are true, but I like reinforcing stereotypes …
October 8th 2009 @ 6:07pm
JF said | October 8th 2009 @ 6:07pm | Report comment
If the GPS team wins it was a legitimate contest, if they lose – ‘it was only a trial game’
October 8th 2009 @ 1:02pm
Thorny said | October 8th 2009 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
I agree with Fox regarding the atmosphere at Waratah games, the entire crowd appears to be waiting to be entertained before they will cheer on the Tahs, from kickoff until the first try (sometimes a long time coming last year!), you can hear more people having a chat than cheering on ‘their’ team. I don’t see how the players would get any home ground advantage at the SFS, other than it being familiar ground. I realise the Tahs wern’t very good to watch last year, but polite clapping when we do score? Pick up your game Sydney!
Although not stricty a help to the Waratahs, I am all for the curtain raisers and would especially like to see Shute sheild matches (although I was unaware of the 45minute rule before hand the S14 game). As a subbies player, our games coincide with the shute shield games, so how about rescheduling some of the the 1st grade games to Friday nights or Sunday afternoons to allow the thousands of players around Sydney the opportunity to go and watch the 3rd tier players in person. Maybe a double header ‘match of the round’ fixture which might draw a few more people? The cost and availablity may rule out the SFS, but what about Parramatta stadium or even Concord oval (transport and pakring may be an issue)?
I watched the Joeys v Newington clash at Hunters Hill in a rare weekend off and while these teams didn’t end up winning GPS it was one of the most entertaining games of rugby I have seen for a long time, probably back to the early days of the super 14. The slick skills of the Joeys boys against the individual flair of the the Newington guys, with only a missed penalty on the bell deciding the result. sensational.
October 8th 2009 @ 3:02pm
Yikes said | October 8th 2009 @ 3:02pm | Report comment
Totally agree. The Premiership Clubs should be looking at Sunday, Friday night and even Thursday night games (there have been a couple in the ANZC). It’s not like this hasn’t been raised, but you can only lead a horse to water…
October 8th 2009 @ 3:17pm
Hansie said | October 8th 2009 @ 3:17pm | Report comment
Move the Waratahs to Melbourne? I recall Stephen Larkham suggesting this in a newspaper column (tongue in cheek, needless to say) in response to O’Neill’s persistent talk of the Brumbies being relocated south (the Brumbies had just won the title, while the Waratahs had finished deep in the pack).
October 8th 2009 @ 3:36pm
Westy said | October 8th 2009 @ 3:36pm | Report comment
Jameswm Would it not be better to have Hills Sports High School / Westfields Sports high School /Blacktown Patician brothers/ Campbelltown Marist brothers play the GPS schools. The skill comraderie would be there and plenty of attitude. What is rugby so fearful of. Let the genie out of the bag. I already have the prematch talk ready.
i need to sell rugby union to the “marginal “boys . I am telling you some of them can play. They would like nothing better than to have crack at ripping into Scots or whoever before a waratahs game. Certain private schools may win but i will tell you who would improve the most.
We even say prayers after the game.
October 8th 2009 @ 3:57pm
Harry Wombat said | October 8th 2009 @ 3:57pm | Report comment
Westy, I’d love to see these games. It annoys me GPS see themselves as the elite level of rugby, if so what is happening with Sydney Grammar. Maybe its time they were replaced with another school, perhaps one from somewhat further west.
October 8th 2009 @ 5:25pm
Bay35Pablo said | October 8th 2009 @ 5:25pm | Report comment
Westy, I was going to say this before I found your suggestion. I have suggested it on another post. Kings v Prairewood, etc. Fibros v Silvertails!!! The crowd will love it. Hell, even the leaguies will get interested!!!!