By Mike Tuckerman
October 13th 2009 @ 1:01am
Time to unite ‘new dawners’ and ‘bitters’ supporters
The Socceroos agaist Qatar in their World Cup qualifier against Qatar in Doha in June. AAP Images
As a contributor to SBS website The World Game, I often find myself perusing the site’s long-standing and mildly infamous forum. A hodge-podge of nationalist flag-waving and juvenile humour, it can be a diverting way to spend a couple of hours.
They’re an unforgiving lot on the forum, quick to highlight mistakes, ready to pounce on any divergence of opinion.
Over the years I’ve been nicknamed “the dumbo,” accused of hating the A-League, labelled a racist towards Asians and, most frequently, have been said to be suffering from “a cultural cringe.”
I suppose things could be worse. At least I haven’t been called a Schalke fan!
But all giggles aside, there’s one debate – or better said, schism – that leaves me pondering the fate of domestic football in this country.
It’s the split between so-called ‘new dawners’ and ‘bitters’ – derogatory terms given to supporters from opposite sides of the football fence.
‘New dawners’ are labelled as such because they supposedly jumped on the bandwagon circa 2005, ie. when the A-League kicked off and the Socceroos qualified for the World Cup.
The term ‘bitters’ is used – at least to my understanding – to denigrate those who preferred the good old days before the A-League, when the National Soccer League was still king and the Socceroos couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag.
Many of those labelled as such are long-term supporters of European national teams.
And on a forum that would make racial sensitivity training about as useful as filling a petrol tank with sand, both terms come with ethnic connotations.
Like any childish name-calling, both are used carte blanche to vilify anyone whose opinion one disagrees with.
Problem is – as insulting as both terms are intended to be – there’s an element of truth to them.
We’ve seen it in the struggles many A-League clubs have had trying to increase crowd figures once the novelty of the new league wore off.
And while Branko Culina’s 1996-97 Sydney United side was perhaps the most skillful Australian club team I’ve laid eyes upon, I’m hardly the first to suggest that the NSL was no longer sustainable.
All of this would be utterly trivial were it not for the fact that two new A-League clubs will soon attempt to make inroads into a couple of football heartlands.
The acceptance of Sydney Rovers FC into the A-League may have been as murky as the Georges River, but the club now has an official name, club colours and a badge to call their own.
That’s great, but will they have any fans?
High player participation rates in the western suburbs of Sydney didn’t exactly make Parramatta Power a box-office hit, and many of the families who play and run the game in the region already have allegiances to decades-old clubs.
Meanwhile in the nation’s south, the question is whether Melbourne Heart can draw upon supporters who feel disenfranchised by Melbourne Victory, or whether the new team will simply fracture the Victory’s established support base.
Either way, both clubs could do with extending an olive branch to the proponents of ‘old soccer’ – who have coached and educated those players now making a name for themselves in the A-League and for the Socceroos.
Time will tell whether the A-League ever countenances admitting so-called ‘ethnic clubs’ into the fold, perhaps into a national Second Division, or whether more hard-nosed supporters of the old NSL will ever venture through an A-League turnstile.
But one thing we could perhaps all do with is some more tolerance of each others’ points of view.
Otherwise the joke is on us, and we’ll be sitting around squabbling about who is a ‘new dawner’ and who are the ‘bitters’ while professional football in this country is played out in front of increasingly disinterested and ever-stagnant home crowds.
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(31)
albe said | October 13th 2009 @ 7:39am | Report comment
lol TWG forum is great for the non-football threads, nice collection of diverse political views on there.
I avoid any football stuff funnily enough. Its harmful to your mental health! Just the usual predictable back and forward between the bitters. Drain the pond indeed
On the second div, i’d rather FFA keep it just for new areas. There’s plenty of mid-sized regions here and in NZ who’d love a crack at promotion. But if Sydney Croatia want to relocate to Mandurah or Christchurch, then welcome them in. A2 would be a disaster for the top league if it were filled with Sydney and Melbourne state league teams.
Chips Rafferty said | October 13th 2009 @ 9:22am | Report comment
So what’s your ID on TWGF?
dasilva said | October 13th 2009 @ 10:28am | Report comment
Nice sentiments there Mike Tuckerman
However I think it’s more easier to get AFL, Rugby, League and non-football fans to watch the A-league then it is to get ex-NSL fanatics and Eurosnobs (at least AFL fans understand the concept of supporting the local league regardless of unflattering or non-existance international comparison) to go watch the A-league.
According to Pippinu half of the members of Melbourne Victory are also members of an AFL club.
I have a feeling that the proportion of them who were actually regular attendance of NSL clubs in the past were probably less then half.
Pippinu said | October 13th 2009 @ 10:35am | Report comment
das
that’s according to Geoff Lord himself.
mahony said | October 14th 2009 @ 3:50pm | Report comment
I know it was only a sub-argument, but AFL fans have no choice dasilva – domestic loyalty is all they have. All the power to them – but if AFL was played in 206 countries we could make a reasonable comparison then.
David V. said | October 13th 2009 @ 10:47am | Report comment
OK, so I’m a longtime football supporter who never supported an NSL club but didn’t ignore the league either. I knew all its teams, was aware of its players, but never got to “belong” to a club. However, the non-viability of the NSL and the need for radical change was all but confirmed by the events of 2000-01, after which time the league was basically on life support.
And that Sydney United team. Some how they made “Zdonkey” David Zdrilic look good. A friend of mine said to me at the time “he’s just in the right team at the right time”- and how right he was, because we all know what a dud Zdrilic would be.
But it makes you wonder- why have strikers been more likely to fail at Sydney FC than elsewhere? Smeltz and Dadi didn’t exactly have sparkling records before, yet they thrive in this league.
Simone` said | October 13th 2009 @ 11:56am | Report comment
When your playing against average players it’s hard not to ‘thrive in this league’…
midfield general said | October 13th 2009 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
Simone I’m fed up with your snide, negative and mean spirited comments on every article I read today..just what are you doing?
David V. said | October 13th 2009 @ 2:36pm | Report comment
Come on, I’ve been just as abrasive, cynical and brutally honest as anybody.
But I’m asking a serious question here- what is it that has made two ex-Socceroo strikers struggle at Sydney FC, and would they have failed anywhere else?
midfield general said | October 13th 2009 @ 3:36pm | Report comment
Yes but l you’re a football person , this Simone’s not. Aloisi and Zdrilic (is that who you mean) signed for Sydney when they were clearly past it. They were physical players as opposed to someone like Fowler with high football IQ. Once those attributes were gone they couldn’t perform.
David V. said | October 13th 2009 @ 4:06pm | Report comment
Fowler has surprised me because of the fact his career had been in continuous decline for at least 10 years, but you’re right in saying those attributes he possesses usually don’t leave you.
Gweeds said | October 13th 2009 @ 1:09pm | Report comment
I for one welcome ‘new dawners’ or ‘bandwagoners’ especially if they become committed fans.
I think the issue is not much the ‘new dawners’ but the group of genuine football fans that still refuse to follow the A-League.
I see these in two camps. One is like Mike has mentioned are made up of fans that were committed NSL fans but now refute the A-League as ‘plastic’. I have some sympathy with their feelings. Traditional NSL teams such as South Melbourne, Marconi etc. have carried on the burden of maintaining football in this country when it was derided and scorned. I think I am not wrong that the players they have produced have had a major influence in our qualification for Germany and still echoes to this day.
It is also true that unlike new A-League teams, the old NSL teams had a tradition that went back for some time.
However this was also the problem. Whatever were the efforts of these teams to become more ‘Australian’ inevitably the connections to a particular group or another alienated potential fans. This re-enforced the view that ’soccer’ was a foreign game played and watched by ‘foreign’ people.
This together with the inept administration of Soccer Australia (which often seemed ran the sport like an ethnic social club) made the sport the ’sick child of Australian Sport’ as a sport journalist once described it.
If I can borrow an idiom from another sport, the FFA has the runs on the board. A well established and well run domestic league (that despite everything still has more support and media exposure than the NSL did, especially in its final years). Admission into Asia (which is a great coup) and two World Cup qualifications.
However in the rush to modernise the sport and distance itself from the ‘old soccer’ the FFA has ignored those who toiled to support the sport throughout the lean years, and these fans have some reason to feel unrecognised and dismissed. Especially from a FFA which is run by people who come from sports that looked down on football in the past.
I think enough time has passed for the FFA to initiate some rapprochement with the traditional football people. The sport as a whole could only benefit from it. And these fans are invaluable they love the sport and they really know about it.\
The other group is what dasilva already has described as ‘eurosnobs’ (this include British people of course) which poo poo the A-League as ‘rubbish’. These people I suspect have grown up in countries fortunate enough to have major leagues and continue to watch them through their pay TV. This is a much more difficult group to convince as they are really not that committed to Australian football and its progress. Many A-League fans know that the competition is not one of the top ones in the world (and neither are most of the ones played in the world, but that’s another argument) but following an A-League team is partly a statement that we want football to prosper in Australia. Eurosnobs couldn’t probably care less, wanting only top level football which realistically is only present in Italy, Spain, England, Germany, Argentina, Brasil etc.
AndyRoo said | October 13th 2009 @ 6:55pm | Report comment
If they were born or grew up overseas then I can understand them being euro snobs. It’s the australian born euro snobs that puzzle me.
mahony said | October 14th 2009 @ 3:47pm | Report comment
Spot on Gweeds – I have long detested the dislike of the new football follower by the Eurosnobs – and the A-League fans who agree with them. I also hope the FFA make moves in the comming years to reintegrate ‘the past’ with the present and the bright future. Football will be even richer for it.
agga78 said | October 13th 2009 @ 3:34pm | Report comment
If these Bitters and Eurosnobs truly loved football (the game) then they would would support the league. I watch provsional matches in Victoria and you canbarely call it football their playing out there. But I like watching football whatever the standard and even at such low levels a player can produce something that is that bit skilful you think to yourself well done son good strike or great turn etc. Same thing should come into the minds of Bitters or Eurosnobs they make slag off the A league as of a poor standard, but every round this season has produced some real quality games or if not games, moments in games you just that was a brilliant piece or skill or a great save. The A league is what you want to make of it, if people want to bitter about old clubs being shown the door and can’t see the sport was finally put 1st for once and not peoples interests than so be it, they can still watch these clubs in their local state competitions and leave the A league to people who love the sport 1st and want to see the game succeed.
David V. said | October 13th 2009 @ 4:10pm | Report comment
My view is that the so-called Bitters are a dying breed, because societal and generational change will see them die out/bred out soon anyway. The support for “ethnic” clubs is gradually withing away after the initial post-NSL flourish.
David V. said | October 13th 2009 @ 4:04pm | Report comment
When people prefer overseas football over local football it’s the symptom of a problem and not the cause of it. We’ve seen this in Malaysia (and you can hardly blame fans there given the shambles local football- and the country generally- is in) and Hong Kong (where a once thriving local-football scene was neglected but has been flickering back to life of late).
Many of us can’t shake off the habit of following our overseas clubs because we were raised on it. The A-League has had less time to engender the same kind of loyalty, in a world where there is far less room for error than there once was. The fact that our league has a long way to go in improving standards- especially coaching and tactics- hasn’t really helped, as has the cliched and simplistic views of the game and ignorant generalisations seemingly thrown into our faces.
mahony said | October 14th 2009 @ 3:40pm | Report comment
They are all good points – but I must say that I am watching much less European football in the A-League season than in years 1 – 3. I am absolutely loving the A-league, but will likely tune into the closing stages of the Champions League and watch only the very big European league derbies (Manchester, Liverpool, Superclassico, Old Firm, etc…). I am also beginning to relate strongly to the big Asian tams in Japan, Korea and China as a result of Australian involvement in the ACL. I wonder if this is happening to others?
Midfielder said | October 13th 2009 @ 4:33pm | Report comment
Mike
I think you still have a couple of bitters at SBS … however I digress … There is little can be done to engage the bitters towards the existing A-League … hopefully the new Melbourne & Sydney team can get some of the bitters in…
cab711 said | October 13th 2009 @ 4:36pm | Report comment
I for one am of two opinions on the use of the Marquee player. Im sure that the Yorke factor added some edge to the starting campaign for Sydney FC but I wonder if the money spent on a marquee could not have been used in longterm investing. Youth development, clubhouse, training facilities or coaching. Surely the long term benefits would have been better and would probably start to merge now had they been implemented from the start with a little vision.
I would rather see 5 kids trained from a young age coming from the local area enter the NYL or mens team of Sydney FC now than all the marquees Sydney FC have had so far. They would be technically better than currently whats on offer, give notoriaty to the club, develop roots with the community and could be sold to other clubs commanding better offers.
Perhaps stricter guidelines need to be introduced into defining the Marquee especially as there has been hints of an Asian Marquee spot perhaps being introduced.
The new Western Sydney team will be interesting to see if people in the area embrace the club, perhaps it will show that local people are desperate for representation or indifferent for whatever reason. Some people believe football is a matter of life and death…it is much, much more important than that.
David V. said | October 13th 2009 @ 4:49pm | Report comment
It’s a vast area- Parramatta, Holroyd, Blacktown, Penrith, Baulkham Hills and Hawkesbury LGAs.
cab711 said | October 13th 2009 @ 5:13pm | Report comment
Im quite certain the FFA has every intention of introducing another Western Sydney team in the future. It can support it.
The Bear said | October 13th 2009 @ 4:40pm | Report comment
Frank Lowy has been quiet of late. Maybe time to arrange a press release to address this potential.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | October 13th 2009 @ 5:51pm | Report comment
I am interested as to why Adelaide’s crowd has remained solid despite a poor season (for them) whilst others have dropped off despite some impressive on field results.
mahony said | October 14th 2009 @ 3:35pm | Report comment
The FFA run them?
Schalke fan said | October 13th 2009 @ 6:49pm | Report comment
Best Wishes to the Lügenscheider Mike Tuckermann. Royal blue Schalke freetings
AA said | October 14th 2009 @ 11:26am | Report comment
The World Game Forum is now banned for acccess for non-members. Mike, you may have to sign in to get a look from now on.
Mike Tuckerman said | October 14th 2009 @ 11:56am | Report comment
No worries AA. I’ve had an account for years.
AA said | October 14th 2009 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
No worries, just letting you know.
aman pillay said | October 14th 2009 @ 3:58pm | Report comment
Whats wrong with Schalke?
cab711 said | October 14th 2009 @ 4:27pm | Report comment
They are not Bayern Munich.