By NZPA
October 18th 2009 @ 6:39am
Rugby World Cup set to lose NZ millions
Losses from the 2011 Rugby World Cup in New Zealand are expected to reach nearly $40 million as organisers scale back ticket sales expectations.
The forecast loss has grown $NZ9.3 million ($A7.54 million) from an original $NZ30 million ($A24.32 million), tournament organiser Martin Snedden told the Weekend Herald newspaper.
The new estimate was directly related to downgraded expectations of ticket sales.
Ticket sales are the only way the Government and New Zealand Rugby Union can make money to offset the losses from hosting the tournament.
The Government has agreed to pay two-thirds of the losses and the NZ Rugby Union will pay the rest.
Mr Snedden said it was expected 1.5 million tickets would be sold out of a total 1.7 million. This was based on New Zealanders buying one million.
Meanwhile local television networks negotiating a joint bid for Rugby World Cup broadcasting rights yesterday reported “significant progress” and said ministers would be updated on Monday.
The Maori Television Service (MTS), TVNZ and TV3 are working on the joint bid.
MTS will lead the bid under a deal brokered by Prime Minister John Key and Maori Affairs Minister Pita Sharples which averted a bidding war between MTS and TVNZ — both backed by taxpayer funds.
The aim of the joint bid is to deliver nationwide free-to-air broadcasts of the 2011 tournament.
MTS chief executive Jim Mather has said there was no guarantee a joint bid would be accepted by the IRB.
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pothale said | October 18th 2009 @ 7:30am | Report comment
Why is this not surprising? The Celtic plot to bankrupt the NZRU continues apace – they voted for them to host it. 40 million is an expensive ego indulgence.
warrenexpatinnz said | October 18th 2009 @ 7:46am | Report comment
I think most people agree that the decision to Host the 2011 RWC in NZ was for two reasons, one is the aura of the All Blacks and its brand worth and two, that this was the final time that NZ could hold this event without the financial sacrifice being too high to RWC incorporated.
The problem NZ face started from my view point, the lack of understanding on what is required to host this event and that the ticket sales are their only source of revenue. Yes you would expect the powers that be should know the implications of that but consider the following;
1: The final will be staged in a 65,000 uncovered seat stadium in a city whose fickle weather is well known. Public sentiment was for a new 70-80,000 seat stadium but regional Auckland infighting scuppered that and of course the practical side was how often would a stadium of that size be filled in Auckland?
2: The Semi finals will be held at the same venue and the quarterfinals are at considerably smaller stadiums. My personal view is that aside from the All Black quarterfinal at least two of these games should have been played in Australia at 80,000 seat stadiums which if one was (assuming) Australia participated in would be sold out and the other at even 80% full would add considrable more revenue to the NZRU coffers
3: Crowd participation; this is my biggest concern in NZ where crowd numbers don’t befit the expectation and to have crowds fill stadiums during the pool matches will require cheaper tickets (how low can they go?) and the cross the finger approach that NZers will support minow teams and the NZRU can only but hope it will be as what Aussie and France/Wales did in 2003 and 2007.
I hope that I am just a sad doubter but with well known boorish crowd behaviour, a poor economic climate (if still the same as now) and a physical lack of seats for the big matches then the NZRU, without considerable government support for possibly the 6 or more years after RWC the NZRU will be bankrupt for several years? to come.
Aussie rugby is nearly always represented in a realist way regards the state of finances and supporter interest yet NZ rugby still clings to the yester year and that the everything is alright attitude reins yet dwindling crowd numbers in the bigger venues such as Wellington, Christchurch and Hamilton (Provincial Hawkes Bay a big ups for filling the ground against Canterbury) during the NPC, crowd numbers down at recent internationals and TV viewership down does it not send the signal that perhaps this RWC is the gift Wooden Horse for NZ rugby and that once the RWC is over the only thing left will be one very big and long lasting headache.
*I excluded Eden park from the dwindling crowd numbers due to the stadium rebuild but I would be interested to see the figures for the remaining seats available at the ground during a test match this season or big NPC clash as it may make for sobering reading as well.
Sylvester said | October 18th 2009 @ 7:39pm | Report comment
Hmmm, this does seem quite a grim view. Three things I would say:
1. Regardless of the situation today with viewership, I’m sure NZ will be amping closer to the event.
2. Do you really think the NZRU would risk bankrupting itself to host a RWC? I doubt it was a random emotive decision without consideration for the financial implications.
3. It’s quite possible the shortfall will recouped by the visitor spend during the tournament.
Bay35Pablo said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:35am | Report comment
This is why NZ had to co-host in 2003, and not sorting out the grounds and hoardings was a disaster.
The financial structuring of the RWC is now such that, along with the guarantees the IRB bovver boys now demand, no small country will ever be able to host it again. Hell, even Australia will look at it with fear.
This will be the last RWC NZ may ever host, and future cups may be limited to the NH and SAF until the IRB pulls its head out of its tweed a$$ and stops strangling the goose to get the golden eggs out.
And this a concept which the IRB had to have forced on it by NZ and Australia. Oh, the irony.
After all the help the NZRU has given the ARU over the decades, we may get called on for help I suspect. Here’s hoping our cupboard isn’t so bare we can’t manage the payback when needed.
Bay35Pablo said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Hmmm, could a financial collapse result in NZ needing to include Australia in the NZC to help them out?
Robb said | October 18th 2009 @ 2:53pm | Report comment
Hell will freeze over before NZ give us any cup games. They still hate us for what we did to them before 2003. Besides – its the NZ taxpayer and not the NZRU paying for the event.
Bay35Pablo said | October 18th 2009 @ 5:03pm | Report comment
Robb, I meant New Zealand Cup (old NPC) not RWC. In the long term they might want the exposure and money that might come from expanding to Australia.
Robb said | October 19th 2009 @ 9:37am | Report comment
Oh – gotcha. Yeah I think that is a brilliant idea. It would give our non-test players a more competitive outlet than club rugby.
Hermin said | October 20th 2009 @ 8:09pm | Report comment
Your not wrong there re the games being handed out Robb
Brumbie fan said | October 18th 2009 @ 11:22am | Report comment
Time for aust and nz to have a joint competion, 10 nz 8 aust solves no 1st grade in aust. Netball had great success. Joint efforts on a rwc would also help. Would also consider Fiji, Samoa, tonga. But I’m sure some one will have a negative point of view to this.
Seems to be a sea of dispair on this app
Robb said | October 18th 2009 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
Probably could happen if “genius” O’Neil didn’t screw them over in 03.
Justin said | October 18th 2009 @ 3:18pm | Report comment
Seriously? The fact NZ couldnt get clean stadia had nothing to do with them stuffing up their side of the bargain?
Bay35Pablo said | October 18th 2009 @ 5:06pm | Report comment
Would love to see that comp start up. Would give the Aussie teams the step up needed, and give the NZC a shot in the arm. Although the Kiwis would deny it needs it, and would rather defend their traditions. But they love to hate us ….
katzilla said | October 18th 2009 @ 5:53pm | Report comment
Shot in the Arm? Your clearly dreaming. The ANZC would die with the introduction of Australian teams, bad enough we have to tolerate 4 of your teams during the s14. No one in NZ wants to see more Australian teams, much like im sure no one in OZ would give two hoots about Bay Of Plenty playing anyone here.
Its not hate we feel for you guys when rugby is concerned, more like pity.
We’ve already done enough for Australian Rugby, time for you to stand on your own two feet.
Daniel J said | October 19th 2009 @ 7:54pm | Report comment
Haha this is hilarious, the irony of us standing on our own two feet, would equal us smashing NZ consistently, is this something you want?
katzilla said | October 19th 2009 @ 9:11pm | Report comment
If thats what you think will happen then your a classic Wallaby fan.
Get your own competition, get your own clubs sorted out.
Maybe you will be better for it and create a better competition for the Bledisloe.
Whether you would smash us consistently? Well good for you for being optimistic.
Is it something i want? I dont know, you guys get smashed consistently, you tell me what its like and i’ll let you know whether i want it to happen or not ok?
Daniel J said | October 20th 2009 @ 8:08am | Report comment
Do you the wallabies to smash you consistently? You should already know what it’s like, when you are beaten, your country behaves like spoiled little brats.
Daniel J said | October 20th 2009 @ 8:25am | Report comment
oh and one other thing
Firstly, i was merely pointing out the irony of your comment that as an All Black fan having the wallabies smash the All Blacks constistantly by “standing on their own two feet” is something i assume you do not want. This is considering the average reaction of an All Black fan is to instantly cry about how its their god given right to win every game.
Secondly, Wallaby fans anywhere will acknowledge our team were always beaten on the day by a better side, or we have a lack of depth etc. Here is a little pro noun for you.. be gracious in defeat, but even more in victory.
Thirdly, educate yourself, who knows you might have something valid to say – http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26232394-5015651,00.html
katzilla said | October 20th 2009 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
Oh and another thing, Spoilt little brats?
You don’t want to get into a Sports controversies war here White Knight of the Pure sportsmanship landscape.
No NZ coach has ever physically assualted a referee after a loss.
Thats only the most recent, the list goes on.
Daniel J said | October 20th 2009 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
I do not know what on earth you are rambling on about you drunk, but i would gladly get into a discussion about the behaviour of both teams over the decades, again i will lend you an educational hand, from my own knoweldge i can’t remember any Wallaby ever assaulting his pregnant wife….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rugby_union_incidents
katzilla said | October 20th 2009 @ 5:37pm | Report comment
My first response was deleted by the ‘Oh so neutral’ Editors here at the Roar.
(Not owned by the people who own the Australian are they? Because i did mention it)
Good for them, how dare anyone say anything bad about the Australian rugby landscape.
Wow a link to Wikipedia, the Hub of all things factual and intellectual. You’ll be presenting articles for the New Yorker before you know it.
Your obviously becoming upset now because you’ve debased yourself by throwing out personal insults. Drunk? Not quite.
But speaking of Drunks, im sure those Quokkas were asking for it aye?
As much as it pains you for your team to be the Scotland of the 3N you must look past it to a bright future. It is coming surely?
Daniel J said | October 20th 2009 @ 7:44pm | Report comment
Hahahahahaha arrrghhh ‘debased’ myself… playing diplomats are we? your a good kid i’m sure. Upset by the plight of the Wallabies is something Australians have become accustomed to my friend. Feel free to criticise it all you like, in fact i will join you, its become a bit of a past time here on The Roar. Good thing about being on the bottom is we can’t get any lower.
And personally, i have a smorgasbord of successful Australian teams i can follow, what do you have? Point is chap, you would be more upset if Australia beat you in the Bledisloe than what i have been, because that is all you have, don’t deny i have been there when the All Blacks have lost.
And yes it was poor of me to reference wikipedia (those incidents are factual if you actually read it
), unfortunately i have neither time or effort to go and individually source those clippings myself. However, given the childish tone of your replies i will, without hesitation reference the New Yorker in the future for you (which coincidentally i loved as kid).
Thanks for your time, it has been fun and i will leave you with the last word.
cheers
Daniel J said | October 20th 2009 @ 7:48pm | Report comment
ps “Not owned by the people who own the Australian are they? Because i did mention it”
I placed a link to the Australian in my post, if the ‘oh so neutral editors’ had a problem with that as you say, they would have moderated my post also. think before posting, or think before thinking.
Hermin said | October 20th 2009 @ 8:06pm | Report comment
Daniel I love your passion it is good to see however you are getting a little carried away in parts.
Just two trophies of the top of my head The Rugby League World Cup sits on the shakey Isles as does the Al Ramsey shield for basketball which New Zealand secured after a record score over the Boomers in Wellington, this inturn not only giving them the Oceania Championship but also the higher seeding heading into the FIBA world Championships. In relation to that Australia has never reached the heights New Zealand Did in 2003 where they finished fourth.
I do recall the NZ netball team just recently won the inagural Fastnet World Championship as well.
As for the fromer two sports they aren’t too bad a results considering NZ has only one professional team in each code.
I was at the rughby league world cup final so before throwing stones in regards to sore losers have a little think about things first
Daniel J said | October 20th 2009 @ 8:34pm | Report comment
Hermin – cheers for the passion, carried way? maybe but its good sport!
Netball – Australia # 1 http://www.netball.org/ifna.aspx?id=94
Basketball – Adam Shields – yes, hands down bravo to NZ! However, you are wrong. NZ still ranks lower than Australia according to FIBA :/ http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/even/rank/rankMen.asp
Soccer/Football – admittedly, a sad # 24 but for jokes and stick the knife in still above the kiwis
Now as for the rugby league – haha do not get me started on that one, those guys are animals thats for sure and particular the Australian team. And no doubt totally agree with you there, sore losers for sure and congrats to NZ. However you are detracting a little bit from my comments, mine were specifically in regards to rugby.
New Zealanders are fiercely patriotic and it is their national sport, so they have to be upset by losing, my only objection was to the chappy above venemous statements about NZ not needing Australian teams in NPC. Anywho i reaaaaaally must go now! thanks for the posts!
cheers
katzilla said | October 20th 2009 @ 9:50pm | Report comment
Venemous statements about not wanting aussie teams in our rugby comp?
I didn’t realise you were so desperate, my apologies, I didn’t mean to disrupt your dreams of one day having a team playing in NZ.
But my comment stands, we don’t need Australians teams in our NPC.
We seem to have done alright for the last 100 years or so.
The s14 killed off some interest due to the saturation of rugby in NZ, but because this years S14 was rubbish, and then the 3Ns followed accordingly the NZ public have come out in droves to see quality rugby. Im afraid this wouldn’t be the case if we let lesser teams into our competition. Especially teams with Candy Floss for forward packs.
I know you were upset about the Australian thing, but I said i wrote badly about the Australian newspaper, you merely linked it. Maybe get your mum to read my posts for you.
That is why the editors deleted my post and that is why i questioned the ownership of the roar.
Those sports Hermin mentioned we have beaten Australia in the very last games played.
I’m glad your proud of your Wendyball ranking. Soon you’ll all be diving and grabbing your shins with the best of em.
Toodlepip.
Daniel J said | October 21st 2009 @ 6:22am | Report comment
Ha, me upset? if i were to ge upset by someone, somewhere who cannot string even a few concepts together you are very sadly mistaken, but if thinking that way makes you feel like a the big man to cover you inadequacy, then thats ok. Moreover, to get back to the very point of this little discussion, you said
“bad enough we have to tolerate 4 of your teams during the s14.” and “its not hate we feel, more like pity”
the only one using emotive language in these posts… are you, indicating you are getting upset
. You seem to have an uncanny knack for missing the point, again i show you.
I couldn’t care less if Australia played in the NPC or not, in fact you are on that front, it was your use of language above that caused me to have a ittle fun with you
Now as a Wallaby fan, yes i do feel a sense of duty to defend them because they are my national team, of my national sport. So yes i concede that, and yes they are a shocking team.
However, i say that the only person who will be diving and grabbing their shins would be a person who uses the salutation of “Toodlepip”.
Haha stop embarrassing youself mate
katzilla said | October 21st 2009 @ 10:29am | Report comment
When you say they are your national team of your national sport which country are you talking about? Its not the National sport of Australia. Are you welsh per chance?
Thankyou for your corrections, your grasp of the English Language is extraordinary.
‘the only one using emotive language in these posts… are you’
Pure gold.
I really must stop replying to you, you keep supplying ammunition for further ridicule and its starting to hurt my sides from laughter.
Good luck with your mission, whatever that may be.
JamesB said | October 18th 2009 @ 1:00pm | Report comment
This is only Rugby NZ 2011 operating loss. A look at the bigger picture, and NZ stands to make a fortune out of hosting this event. Take a look at the projected injection of funds into the economy… hundreds of millions! The RWC is finally returning to its spiritual home and to the most beautiful and hospitable country on the planet. Anyone who was on the Lions tour 2005 will attest to that.
In all the countries that have hosted the RWC to date (SA aside), there was no atmosphere and it was difficult to know a RWC was even being held. Rugby is a minority sport in all these countries, again except for SA, but then in SA you spend most of your time being worried about your security. Whereas the whole of NZ will get in behind the RWC… they will live and breathe rugby for 6 weeks, and everywhere you go, all you’ll see and hear is rugby. You see, us Kiwis are passionate about rugby, and that’s why this will be the best world cup to date.
Grandpabhaile said | October 19th 2009 @ 1:47am | Report comment
“The RWC is finally returning to its spiritual home and to the most beautiful and hospitable country on the planet. Anyone who was on the Lions tour 2005 will attest to that.”
They will? It’s good to dream I suppose….. The Lions tour of NZ was dour and drab in comparison to most other tours and left a lot to be desired.
“In all the countries that have hosted the RWC to date (SA aside), there was no atmosphere and it was difficult to know a RWC was even being held. Rugby is a minority sport in all these countries, again except for SA, ”
I’m sure France would disagree with that – the WC there was fantastic atmosphere and great fun. The RWC hosted by Wales was pretty good too since rugby would be the number one sport there as well. And the Australia RWC was well received by all accounts.
Westcoast929406 said | October 18th 2009 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
Well well another Rugby Union heartland that cannot support its code – Sounds familiar.
Do not worry folks another football code is on the way to help NZ kids decide which is the way to go to a professional career. AFL club Hawthorn has just launched a move into the NZ Secondary schools looking for future talent and is attracting interest.
Give it 5 years and a lot more kids will be playing our game over there.
Yes we now await for the howls of derision from the Rugby world establishment in NZ, NSW and to a lesser extent QLD.
Link—
http://www.nzafl.co.nz/
Norm said | October 18th 2009 @ 1:48pm | Report comment
you can give it as many years as you like wettoast, there’ll still be no more interest in NZ than there is today for the melbourne game.
Westcoast929406 said | October 18th 2009 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
We will see who is right then Norm. Interesting perspective on sport in Australia you have as well ” The Melbourne Game”. So is it alright for us to call the other codes ” The English Games” because you are obviously refering to its origins.
Actually the article topic is very very negative for Rugby Union in NZ. Why would any Rugby supporter post this kind of stuff anyhow as a topic. It can be self fulfilling.
Robb said | October 18th 2009 @ 3:06pm | Report comment
Westcoast – stop being so delusional!
AFL in NZ consists of not much more than a few Aussie expats. There are less than 550 senior players there spread across less than 20 clubs (most of them University teams).
The only sport that could ever come anywhere near Union there is League – and even then it is a very long shot.
ohtani's jacket said | October 18th 2009 @ 3:30pm | Report comment
Better this article than a million stupid code expansion articles.
captain nemo said | October 19th 2009 @ 10:23am | Report comment
westcoast, mate you are brainwashed…… not having a dig at AFL here, just people like you!!! I had a look at your link to kiwi AFL and they picked some kids for their national under 16 side that had actually never played the game. So the Kiwi national representative side has a kid who has never held a sherrin!!! Westcoast, I don’t think I am being out of order when I ask this, but have you ever been to NZ??? I feel you havn’t because the AFL fans who have or who live in NZ would shake their head at your comments!! To make a claim the NZ cannot support rugby and that Hawthorn are moving in on secondary schools would make the administrators in clubs like Hawthorn cringe because people like you westcoast, would create ill feeling for the AFL in NZ. No wonder cuzybro gets all fired up. If the AFL has some limited success in NZ, well it will be a turn up for the books but in this day and age anything is possible, but what you claim westcoast, shows me mate that you need to find a larger circle of friends or maybe take some of your annual leave, make that 3 hour plane ride across the “dutch” and see the reality of the situation. If you went into every pub in NZ, 99.99% of conversations would be on rugby mate.
This link is for cuzybro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdVHZwI8pcA
Redb said | October 19th 2009 @ 10:29am | Report comment
Capt’,
As much as it pains me to say but I agree with you.
Redb
p.s. not about the cuzybro part though he says some stupid things as well.
Elbusto said | October 20th 2009 @ 5:04pm | Report comment
Thanks Westcoast for yet again demonstrating what a pack of smug turds AFL supporters are. Your assumption of superiority is typical of the smart asses who spend their lives boasting about a game nobody else in the world cares about.
katzilla said | October 18th 2009 @ 6:02pm | Report comment
I like you AFL guys, your an optimistic bunch. Good luck on your foray into NZ.
I’m sure the legacy of the black jersey is already quaking in its boots.
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 6:13pm | Report comment
The website says: In its inaugural season, the competition has already had a massive impact on the development of AFL within New Zealand with the likely sanctioning of the sport by New Zealand Secondary Schools Sports Council.
That sounds fair enough – what’s so funny about that?
ohtani's jacket said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:37pm | Report comment
So what? Do you think rugby is the only secondary school sport?
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:42pm | Report comment
My sentiments exactly – so what.
Redb said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:46pm | Report comment
For the life of me i dont understand why it is necessary to bring AFL into a topic where it is not even mentioned or relevant to the topic.
Support for rugby in NZ has much in common with footy in Melb – we should respect the games tradition and history in NZ not throw in a cheap advert for our game. The Hawthorn initative is terrific but lets not burden the program with absurd expectations.
Redb
Brett McKay said | October 18th 2009 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
So theoretically at least, if my plan to tour NZ during the pool stages of the RWC comes to pass, I shouldn’t have too much trouble getting tickets?!?!
And also, if the projected loss has grown by another NZ$9M since whenever, what’s the final figure going to be by September 2011?!?
AndyRoo said | October 18th 2009 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
Previous experience would suggest that people will only really want to get involved once it starts. that’s when tickets like Tonga vs romania sell at any decent rate.
Robb said | October 18th 2009 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
For all the criticism of the RLWC, it made a profit.
ohtani's jacket said | October 18th 2009 @ 3:34pm | Report comment
Eh, the tickets were always going to be too expensive for ordinary New Zealanders and there were always going to be hitches along the way. Nobody will care if it makes a profit so long as NZ win. If they lose, it’ll be the biggest disaster since the Hindenburg.
Hermin said | October 18th 2009 @ 3:54pm | Report comment
The New Zealand government has guaranteed the money so I don’t know what everyones problem is. It’s not like the IRB is losing any money now is it. Also I’d like to know where all the money that the IRB is milking from these tournaments is going because as of yet only four nations have ever won this tournament two of them twice each. Also many need to rememeber or be made aware this is only the second world cup where a country has had to pay to host the tournament and the price the IRB wants is absolutely ridiculous and will only increase with every tournament. This competition will become so exclusive only a few nations will ever get to host it. Where is the good in that?
Even the ARU has said they will not bid to host a cup in the near future as the IRB has even priced them out of the game.
Noone will lose money here except the NZ taxpayer so many of the posts in here may need to rethink there stances, to me it looks like the classic whinging from those who are oppossed to NZ tall pooppy syndrome it seems. While it may not be a financial success it will be a huge success for the Aura of rugby and for the personality of rugby. EVryone knows how hard it is to beat the All Blacks at home imagine how hard it will be to win a world cup in NZ
pothale said | October 19th 2009 @ 11:07am | Report comment
Hermin/Hemjay – you didn’t read what people said.. Most of the posts on this thread say that the NZ taxpayer will have to pick up the tab for the NZRU – that’s the point. It won’t be a financial success, and given that the NZRU effectively incentivised other countries to get the contest in the first place, they look pretty inept now. Huge success for the aura of rugby – what does that mean – nothing. The personality of rugby? That’s another meaningless phrase – you’re not looking to be a politician, are you?
Hermin said | October 19th 2009 @ 11:30am | Report comment
I don’t know who you think I am or who you think you are but I think your drawing a long bow in your assumption that New Zealand bribed other nations.
In turn I believe you are accussing the NZRU and indirectly the IRB of corruption, that is a huge accusation to make.
Also please show me where I said that the 2011 rugby world cup would be a financial success?
As far as I recall I said that the IRB would not lose a cent actually they will make 50 million dollars directly from New Zealand having to first pay to host the tournament. They will then inturn take all broadcasting profits any short fall the New Zealand Government will pay.
It is New Zealand that stands to lose money noone else so I don’t understand all the negativity.
The tournament hasn’t even started yet which makes it even more absurd.
Like I said above this tournament cannot be a financial disaster for the IRB as the IRB is guaranteed their money, it will be a burden for New Zealand and New Zealand only!
One that most new Zealanders are willing to bear.
Because unlike most rugby nations, New Zealnd is passionate about the game it is afterall the national sport, the fact also that it will be played in the home of the most dominant team on the planet also has to be a good thing doesn’t it?
Not only will the fans support the tournament and visitors to the country they will understand the game that has to be a bonus for the RWC concept.
pothale said | October 20th 2009 @ 1:49am | Report comment
Hermin
For the record, I didn’t say bribery – you did. You’re well aware that it’s been a matter of public commentary for some time that a deal was done by NZRU with Celtic nations to secure their vote in exchange for playing test matches against a NZ team. A drab and poor bargain that doesn’t reflect well on any of the unions involved.
However, having secured the tournament, despite warnings in advance that it would not be financially viable, the NZRU are now hoist on their own financial petard and hubris.
The point people have been making is that the NZRU will lose money on this and the NZ government – which ultimately means the NZ taxpayer. The working assumption is that the NZ Government will make its contribution back through increased tourist traffic and taxes on this activity. I’m not sure how the NZRU plans to recover its losses – most likely through ticket sales – sold at exorbitant prices and that is a tricky route to pursue where you can easily end up being seen as simply fleecing rugby tourists. Bottom line – the fan or NZ taxpayer will pay – through the nose. It didn’t have to be this way.
You state that “the fact also that it will be played in the home of the most dominant team on the planet also has to be a good thing doesn’t it?”
I’m not sure it is really. However, let’s wait and see how it unfolds – NZ may wow the world with its hospitality, organisation and sense of occasion – whatever about its business and financial acumen. And if they win the cup, then sure everybody won’t care about the fact they’ll be paying for it for some years to come.
Hermin said | October 20th 2009 @ 7:23pm | Report comment
Pothale
“and given that the NZRU effectively incentivised other countries ”
Not accussing the NZRFU of bribery at all now are you?
pothale said | October 21st 2009 @ 11:11am | Report comment
Hermin, no I’m not. You keep using that word. If you want to infer that from what I’m saying, that’s your problem, not mine.
Re-read the first paragraph of my previous post – carefully. I don’t think you should make statements on here that might be deemed libellous.
However, this is but a minor point. The main point I was making has already been accepted by you. Move on.
Hermin said | October 19th 2009 @ 11:37am | Report comment
In simple the point is, people outside of new Zealand really have no right to complain about the financial successes of the tournament as like I have said above it is only New Zealanders that will wear the financial losses should they eventuate.
The IRB will get their money
Grandpabhaile said | October 19th 2009 @ 1:55am | Report comment
Some choice of metaphor OJ. You compare the losing of a rugby match to hundreds of people being burnt alive in a genuine aircraft tragedy.
Get some perspective, mate.
PastHisBest said | October 19th 2009 @ 9:10am | Report comment
Yo ‘G’…perspective is exactly what the NZ’ers don;t have when i comes to poor world cup results.
ohtani's jacket said | October 21st 2009 @ 11:38am | Report comment
Lighten up.
Tom Alexander. said | October 18th 2009 @ 5:17pm | Report comment
I think once the tournament starts even the most fickle of fans will come out of the woodworks and support it. When NZ pulled out of the event in 2003, A lot of pundits were concerned about the it’s viability given Rugbys percieved ranking in Australia. As it turned out, the tournament was a major success silencing a lot of it’s harshest critics. People love big events and i suspect once the star players and the travelling fans (along with the media) start arriving en-masse, locals won’t be able to help but get swept up in the whole atmosphere/event.
Brumbie fan said | October 18th 2009 @ 5:51pm | Report comment
Hey westcoast you have a sense of humour, afl succeeding in nz ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!! Not this century! Rugby in aust may have hit a low point, but that’s about it really. Rugby is huge overseas afl can only get so big in this small populated country.
Mudskipper said | October 18th 2009 @ 6:02pm | Report comment
And I might add AFL can’t have a World Cup…….. thank you applause …. now stop…… lets hope Melbourne the vote this week…. and they can become owners in the Rugby world via the S15…..
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 6:09pm | Report comment
There’s a very good reason why Australia can’t play the rest of the world at Australian Football.
The rest of the world isn’t up to it.
PastHisBest said | October 19th 2009 @ 9:26am | Report comment
Up to what Pip?
Ridiculous statement. That’s like saying Afghanistan doesn’t play the rest of world in buzkashi because they are no good at it.
Trust Victorians to make up a completely new game so they can be the ‘best in the world’ at it.
Robbos said | October 19th 2009 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Brillant!!!!
Pippinu said | October 19th 2009 @ 9:29am | Report comment
Just a statement of fact.
By the way – buzkashi may look deceptively simple, but it takes a lifetime to master.
PastHisBest said | October 19th 2009 @ 9:35am | Report comment
So does humility.
Pippinu said | October 19th 2009 @ 10:20am | Report comment
Interestingly (and I swear this is not some sort of joke, although the possibilities for humorous responses is absolutely endless), the very tough, demanding, and bloody sport of buzkashi also goes by the name of “sheep rugby”.
(source: wikipedia)
There is a certain pertinence to the matter at hand – but I’m buggered if I can make the connection.
captain nemo said | October 19th 2009 @ 10:27am | Report comment
too many googlers on here and not enough doers
PastHisBest said | October 19th 2009 @ 10:29am | Report comment
Too easy Pip. I suggest all Oz roarers leave this one well alone…
Pippinu said | October 19th 2009 @ 11:17am | Report comment
It’s probably fair to say that buzkashi has a far bigger geo-political footprint than Australain Footall.
And yes – the rest of the world is definitely not up to it!!
(although it might be attractive to those in the West who dabble in black magic)
Robb said | October 19th 2009 @ 9:53am | Report comment
I guess the rest of the World isn’t up to the Baseballs “World Series” either. Funny how rugby is presently trying to expand into places such as Russia, Canada and Japan. The AFL’s most ambitious target is QLD and NSW.
Pippinu said | October 19th 2009 @ 10:11am | Report comment
Correct.
Elbusto said | October 20th 2009 @ 5:08pm | Report comment
No its because the rest of the world neither cares about it or knows what it is!
LeftArmSpinner said | October 18th 2009 @ 6:11pm | Report comment
the biggest problem is that NZ isnt on the GPS so no one can find it
Brumbie fan said | October 18th 2009 @ 6:12pm | Report comment
Rest of the world couldn’t give a crap about afl
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 6:14pm | Report comment
….because they’re not up to it.
It’s human nature to be dismissive of that which you cannot do.
Hermin said | October 18th 2009 @ 8:51pm | Report comment
How can you have a world cup when your the only nation who plays it?
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 8:59pm | Report comment
You can’t.
But I didn’t say anything about a world cup.
I did say that it’s human nature to be dismissive of that which one can’t do.
Hermin said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:22pm | Report comment
I find it somewhat silly for you to be so dismissive towards other peoples opinions, the fact remains no matter how much you, I or anyone for that matter wants it too. I would very much doubt that AFL will have much of an impact on the NZ rugby scene in our lifetimes. New Zealanders are bored with rugby as it is because there is far to much kicking why in the world would they turn to a sport many term aerial ping-pong?
Kiwis love to see the big hits and set pieces that don’t seem to come with AFL which to me personally is like a free for all. I don’t loathe AFL please don’t get me wrong but I just don’t really enjoy it that much either. What other sport in the world awards points for missing goal?
Some would say AFL is part of the Victorian culture as is rugby to New Zealanders and they are probably right. While it would be good to see the game grow I don’t believe it is making the in-roads that some have suggested.
Lastly to be taken seriously as a sport there needs to be more than one country playing it at a high level. As is I’d say most AFL club teams if not all would undoubtedly beat the best any nation could put together.
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:25pm | Report comment
Was I dismissive of anyone’s opinion?
Personally, I wish NZ every success with the WC.
Hermin said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:38pm | Report comment
“The rest of the world isn’t up to it”
Nothing slightly arrogant or dismissive about this quote from you Pippinu.
Why would the rest of the world be up to it?
Noone else plays it come on pal, you can be passionate about your code but your remark does more harm to your code than it does to help it.
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:43pm | Report comment
Others actually chose to bring this up – don’t look at me.
Mudskipper said | October 18th 2009 @ 6:15pm | Report comment
Best news is…. NZ RWc will have more cheap seats…
Hansie said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:11pm | Report comment
Didn’t the NZRU whinge like stuck pigs when Australia got the sole rights to RWC 2003? It seems strange when the planning for 2011 clearly shows that NZ could never turn a profit from the event.
katzilla said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:19pm | Report comment
NZ won’t make a profit? or the NZRU wont make a profit?
Im sure the NZ economy will do a very nice trade during the world cup, the gov pays 3/4 of the cost and the NZRU pays the rest. Kiwis wont be charged extra taxes for the world cup so its really only money that would have went elsewhere anyways. Yet Hotels and Motels and all sorts of Entertainment venues are going to do an absolute smashing trade.
NZ as a whole will do quite nicely.
People need to see the bigger picture. The NZRU can consider their loss as an investment in NZs economy.
Unless of course everyone is forecasting the amounts of money spent on accomodation and drinking and meals etc.
If thats the case it depends entirely on whos in the final. The NZ economy would then do well from an English win.
ohtani's jacket said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:47pm | Report comment
The NZRU have the reserves to cover for a loss, but even they realise we have to stop playing these money spinning Test matches due to player welfare. And the provincial game is a drain on their finances, so how they managed the ANZC from here on out will be important.
pothale said | October 19th 2009 @ 4:17am | Report comment
there’s an irony. A Final featuring two European teams might generate more money.
katzilla said | October 19th 2009 @ 4:19pm | Report comment
Wheres the Irony in that Pot? We all know where the moneys at.
westy said | October 18th 2009 @ 10:03pm | Report comment
Does anyone know if the rights to the non wallabies games at the RWC are held by Paytv or FTA in Australia?. The question is a genuine one. Pay Tv says it has 29% in Australia. Games like SA v England or NZ v France etc would be great spectacles and would do much good for the game in Australia if played live on FTA. I know Wallabies games are on the anti siphoning list what about the other major RWC games ?
TommyM said | October 18th 2009 @ 10:51pm | Report comment
Hopefully a FTA network will pick it up. Channel 10 showed many (all?) games from France live. They were pretty rubbish broadcasts, but to give them their due, at least they showed them all. Channel 7 must never be allowed anywhere near the rights to rugy in Austrlia again- their refusal to show even Beldisloe matches live in ‘non-rugby’ states such as WA and VIC borders on the criminal. The sooner we get use it or lose it legislation around major events the better
Chris said | October 20th 2009 @ 5:45pm | Report comment
circus said | October 18th 2009 @ 10:40pm | Report comment
Westy
Channel 9 and Foxtel have the rights to the 2011 RWC (and 2015). Channel 9 has said it will show 16 of the 48 matches live on FTA ie. Australia’s 4 pool games, the 4 quarter-finals, the 2 semi-finals, the third place play-off, and the final.
That leaves 4 games that it will cover – presumably the opening game between NZ and Tonga. Other games such as NZ vs France and SA vs England would probably make up 2 of the other 3 to be telecast on FTA.
Foxtel is televising all 48 games live.
westy said | October 18th 2009 @ 11:02pm | Report comment
Thankyou tommy and Circus.
PastHisBest said | October 19th 2009 @ 9:37am | Report comment
Who are the commentators going to be on nine? Bring back big Dazza Eastlake?
Brett McKay said | October 19th 2009 @ 10:18am | Report comment
PHB, I’d imagine 9 will just take the Fox (or NZ) pictures and commentary, with Kenny Sutcliffe in the host’s chair…
Chris said | October 20th 2009 @ 5:48pm | Report comment
Personally I hope they just give the League commentators a crash course in Union and use them. Would be better than the Foxtel commentators or Gordon Bray!
slidepass said | October 19th 2009 @ 11:50am | Report comment
cant be as much of a disaster as the league world cup here, at least internationals care about union and will fly down
Dogs Of War said | October 20th 2009 @ 7:03pm | Report comment
Except the League one made a profit (though small).
Hermin said | October 20th 2009 @ 7:17pm | Report comment
Technically the tournament will make a profit. The IRB gets 50 million for diddly squat straight up. 50 million for saying yes you can have the tournament. Secondly they will take all broadcasting profits which will give them a very nice pay day.
Like I said earlier it is NZ and only NZ that will lose money, this thread is pointless and nothing but scaremongering. It amazes me how many people are so bitter about New Zealand hosting the tournament and then coming into threads like this with misguided perceptions on the tournament losing money because in all actuality it loses nothing as it will be paid for.
Let me reiterate that for you all again the IRB will get their money and they will make a huge profit. The New Zealand tax payer will lose out but it’s pretty obvious that 4million people aren’t too worried about it and are more than willing to take the loss on the chin. Seems those from countries who are biter about New Zealand hosting the tournament are doing their best to make up ridiculous accusations and paint the tournament out to be a failure when in actuality it is far from the truth.
pothale said | October 21st 2009 @ 11:22am | Report comment
Hermin – it would be a good idea if you actually read the article that has started this thread of discussion. It clearly says that NZ and NZRU will lose money on the tournament. Nowhere does it say the IRB will lose money. Nor has that claim been made by any of the posters on here. you’re the only person raising it.
It’s a red herring.
The issue being discussed is the losses that will accrue for NZ. It’s not scaremongering, since you have said yourself that the New Zealand taxpayer will lose out. Get your facts straight.
How is it obvious that the entire population of New Zealand will take those kind of losses on the chin? We’re in the middle of a global recession, in case you hadn’t noticed. People having to cough up hard-earned money in taxes can ill-afford to do so.
Who is making up accusations related to the issue being debated?
Timmypig said | October 19th 2009 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
Brett
Sutcliffe is probably the least offensive of the Ch9 ‘generic sport’ commentators, but he’s no rugby specialist. In fact Ch9 has never had a need for rugby specialists. Maybe on that basis Sutcliffe would be a good choice for the ‘host’, but calling the games?
The Wallabies games will almost certainly be called by an Australian commentary team; but the other matches I agree, they surely will be raw feed from whoever is on site.
So who will be on the Australian commentary team? The pickings are slim….. Might be better to take the raw feed for those matches too!
Brett McKay said | October 19th 2009 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
TimmyP, that’s exactly why I suggested Ch9 might just take the Fox Sports feed and commentary, rather than poach some local rugby “experts” for a 6 week tourney. So unfortunately that would mean we have to cop Clark, Kearns and Martin.
Kenny Sutcliffe would do as good a hosting job as anyone else really, but no, he couldn’t call the games..
Hammer said | October 19th 2009 @ 2:45pm | Report comment
Timmy – well if the C9 feed is coming via fox – it’ll be the foxsports cheerleaders en-mass … one eyed babble – peddling the ARU line
Timmypig said | October 19th 2009 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
Brett, Hammer – I feel your pain 8-(
circus said | October 19th 2009 @ 3:12pm | Report comment
For the quarter finals onwards – since the NRL will have finished – the commentary team will be Rabbits Warren, Andrew Voss, Peter Sterling, and Phil Gould with a sideline commentary team of Andrew and Matthew Johns. Technical comments will be provided by a panel of former star players – Wendell Sailor, Matt Rogers, Lote Tuquiri and Timana Tahu.
katzilla said | October 19th 2009 @ 9:16pm | Report comment
I wouldn’t mind Peter Sterling calling a rugby game. Hes an incredibly knowledgable man without giving the impression of being pretentious. He’s mentioned a few times on the Footy Show that he likes to watch the big union games.
I’m sure he knows what hes on about.
True Tah said | October 20th 2009 @ 6:20pm | Report comment
Given that none of Lote, Dell, Rogers or Tahu ever played in the forwards, what technical ‘knowledge’ could they provide?
westy said | October 19th 2009 @ 9:37pm | Report comment
Channel 9 still provide a superior camera coverage then channel ten or seven or the ABC. Just turn the sound down.
circus said | October 19th 2009 @ 10:53pm | Report comment
Sorry, I was just joking about the Channel 9 commentary team for the RWC. I have no idea who they will employ.
I think Rod Kafer (Fox) and Ben Darwin, who was part of the Ch 10 commentary team for RWC 2007 in France, are the two best rugby analysts in Australia.
Just pray Dan Crowley doesn’t get a gig.
True Tah said | October 20th 2009 @ 6:33pm | Report comment
I hope we are not forced to endure the one-eyed jibes of Murray Mexted, havent been able to figure out why anyone let him out of his cage!
allblackfan said | October 21st 2009 @ 11:52am | Report comment
Whether I get a ticket to any of the games or not, I want to go to that WC!!
Atmosphere (expecially on match day) will so crucial so I believe you won’t need a ticket to revel in the atmosphere of the tournament.
The most recent example of this was game day when Munster took on the ABs; the townfolk’s mood on game day was special. The smaller the community (or country), the more intense the experience.
I say the experience will be good for the lesser lights of the game; for Portugal, Russia and the rest to come to a rugby-mad nation and be in the spotlight!
Not to mention the Pacific Island unions will feel like this is their Cup too! This will be the closest any of them will come to hosting the Cup ever!!
This tournament won’t be a boost for NZRFU coffers; it will boost the development of the game in smaller nations.