Rugby World Cup set to lose NZ millions

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By NZPA, 18 Oct 2009 NZPA is a Roar Pro

Tagged:: 2011 Rugby World Cup, All Blacks, International Rugby, NZRU, Rugby Union, RWC2011

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Losses from the 2011 Rugby World Cup in New Zealand are expected to reach nearly $40 million as organisers scale back ticket sales expectations.

The forecast loss has grown $NZ9.3 million ($A7.54 million) from an original $NZ30 million ($A24.32 million), tournament organiser Martin Snedden told the Weekend Herald newspaper.

The new estimate was directly related to downgraded expectations of ticket sales.

Ticket sales are the only way the Government and New Zealand Rugby Union can make money to offset the losses from hosting the tournament.

The Government has agreed to pay two-thirds of the losses and the NZ Rugby Union will pay the rest.

Mr Snedden said it was expected 1.5 million tickets would be sold out of a total 1.7 million. This was based on New Zealanders buying one million.

Meanwhile local television networks negotiating a joint bid for Rugby World Cup broadcasting rights yesterday reported “significant progress” and said ministers would be updated on Monday.

The Maori Television Service (MTS), TVNZ and TV3 are working on the joint bid.

MTS will lead the bid under a deal brokered by Prime Minister John Key and Maori Affairs Minister Pita Sharples which averted a bidding war between MTS and TVNZ — both backed by taxpayer funds.

The aim of the joint bid is to deliver nationwide free-to-air broadcasts of the 2011 tournament.

MTS chief executive Jim Mather has said there was no guarantee a joint bid would be accepted by the IRB.

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The Crowd Says (110) | Page 1 of Comments

pothale said | October 18th 2009 @ 7:30am | Report comment

Why is this not surprising? The Celtic plot to bankrupt the NZRU continues apace – they voted for them to host it. 40 million is an expensive ego indulgence.

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warrenexpatinnz said | October 18th 2009 @ 7:46am | Report comment

I think most people agree that the decision to Host the 2011 RWC in NZ was for two reasons, one is the aura of the All Blacks and its brand worth and two, that this was the final time that NZ could hold this event without the financial sacrifice being too high to RWC incorporated.
The problem NZ face started from my view point, the lack of understanding on what is required to host this event and that the ticket sales are their only source of revenue. Yes you would expect the powers that be should know the implications of that but consider the following;
1: The final will be staged in a 65,000 uncovered seat stadium in a city whose fickle weather is well known. Public sentiment was for a new 70-80,000 seat stadium but regional Auckland infighting scuppered that and of course the practical side was how often would a stadium of that size be filled in Auckland?
2: The Semi finals will be held at the same venue and the quarterfinals are at considerably smaller stadiums. My personal view is that aside from the All Black quarterfinal at least two of these games should have been played in Australia at 80,000 seat stadiums which if one was (assuming) Australia participated in would be sold out and the other at even 80% full would add considrable more revenue to the NZRU coffers
3: Crowd participation; this is my biggest concern in NZ where crowd numbers don’t befit the expectation and to have crowds fill stadiums during the pool matches will require cheaper tickets (how low can they go?) and the cross the finger approach that NZers will support minow teams and the NZRU can only but hope it will be as what Aussie and France/Wales did in 2003 and 2007.
I hope that I am just a sad doubter but with well known boorish crowd behaviour, a poor economic climate (if still the same as now) and a physical lack of seats for the big matches then the NZRU, without considerable government support for possibly the 6 or more years after RWC the NZRU will be bankrupt for several years? to come.
Aussie rugby is nearly always represented in a realist way regards the state of finances and supporter interest yet NZ rugby still clings to the yester year and that the everything is alright attitude reins yet dwindling crowd numbers in the bigger venues such as Wellington, Christchurch and Hamilton (Provincial Hawkes Bay a big ups for filling the ground against Canterbury) during the NPC, crowd numbers down at recent internationals and TV viewership down does it not send the signal that perhaps this RWC is the gift Wooden Horse for NZ rugby and that once the RWC is over the only thing left will be one very big and long lasting headache.
*I excluded Eden park from the dwindling crowd numbers due to the stadium rebuild but I would be interested to see the figures for the remaining seats available at the ground during a test match this season or big NPC clash as it may make for sobering reading as well.

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- Sylvester said | October 18th 2009 @ 7:39pm | Report comment
  
  Hmmm, this does seem quite a grim view. Three things I would say:
  1. Regardless of the situation today with viewership, I’m sure NZ will be amping closer to the event.
  2. Do you really think the NZRU would risk bankrupting itself to host a RWC? I doubt it was a random emotive decision without consideration for the financial implications.
  3. It’s quite possible the shortfall will recouped by the visitor spend during the tournament.
  
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Bay35Pablo said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:35am | Report comment

This is why NZ had to co-host in 2003, and not sorting out the grounds and hoardings was a disaster.

The financial structuring of the RWC is now such that, along with the guarantees the IRB bovver boys now demand, no small country will ever be able to host it again. Hell, even Australia will look at it with fear.

This will be the last RWC NZ may ever host, and future cups may be limited to the NH and SAF until the IRB pulls its head out of its tweed a$$ and stops strangling the goose to get the golden eggs out.

And this a concept which the IRB had to have forced on it by NZ and Australia. Oh, the irony.

After all the help the NZRU has given the ARU over the decades, we may get called on for help I suspect. Here’s hoping our cupboard isn’t so bare we can’t manage the payback when needed.

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Bay35Pablo said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:36am | Report comment

Hmmm, could a financial collapse result in NZ needing to include Australia in the NZC to help them out?

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- Robb said | October 18th 2009 @ 2:53pm | Report comment
  
  Hell will freeze over before NZ give us any cup games. They still hate us for what we did to them before 2003. Besides – its the NZ taxpayer and not the NZRU paying for the event.
  
  Reply
  - Bay35Pablo said | October 18th 2009 @ 5:03pm | Report comment
    
    Robb, I meant New Zealand Cup (old NPC) not RWC. In the long term they might want the exposure and money that might come from expanding to Australia.
    
    Reply
    - Robb said | October 19th 2009 @ 9:37am | Report comment
      
      Oh – gotcha. Yeah I think that is a brilliant idea. It would give our non-test players a more competitive outlet than club rugby.
      
      Reply
  - Hermin said | October 20th 2009 @ 8:09pm | Report comment
    
    Your not wrong there re the games being handed out Robb
    
    Reply
Brumbie fan said | October 18th 2009 @ 11:22am | Report comment

Time for aust and nz to have a joint competion, 10 nz 8 aust solves no 1st grade in aust. Netball had great success. Joint efforts on a rwc would also help. Would also consider Fiji, Samoa, tonga. But I’m sure some one will have a negative point of view to this.
Seems to be a sea of dispair on this app

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- Robb said | October 18th 2009 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
  
  Probably could happen if “genius” O’Neil didn’t screw them over in 03.
  
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  - Justin said | October 18th 2009 @ 3:18pm | Report comment
    
    Seriously? The fact NZ couldnt get clean stadia had nothing to do with them stuffing up their side of the bargain?
    
    Reply
- Bay35Pablo said | October 18th 2009 @ 5:06pm | Report comment
  
  Would love to see that comp start up. Would give the Aussie teams the step up needed, and give the NZC a shot in the arm. Although the Kiwis would deny it needs it, and would rather defend their traditions. But they love to hate us ….
  
  Reply
  - katzilla said | October 18th 2009 @ 5:53pm | Report comment
    
    Shot in the Arm? Your clearly dreaming. The ANZC would die with the introduction of Australian teams, bad enough we have to tolerate 4 of your teams during the s14. No one in NZ wants to see more Australian teams, much like im sure no one in OZ would give two hoots about Bay Of Plenty playing anyone here.
    Its not hate we feel for you guys when rugby is concerned, more like pity.
    We’ve already done enough for Australian Rugby, time for you to stand on your own two feet.
    
    Reply
    - Daniel J said | October 19th 2009 @ 7:54pm | Report comment
      
      Haha this is hilarious, the irony of us standing on our own two feet, would equal us smashing NZ consistently, is this something you want?
      
      Reply
      - katzilla said | October 19th 2009 @ 9:11pm | Report comment
        
        If thats what you think will happen then your a classic Wallaby fan.
        Get your own competition, get your own clubs sorted out.
        Maybe you will be better for it and create a better competition for the Bledisloe.
        Whether you would smash us consistently? Well good for you for being optimistic.
        Is it something i want? I dont know, you guys get smashed consistently, you tell me what its like and i’ll let you know whether i want it to happen or not ok?
        
        Reply
        
        Daniel J said | October 20th 2009 @ 8:08am | Report comment
        
        Do you the wallabies to smash you consistently? You should already know what it’s like, when you are beaten, your country behaves like spoiled little brats.
        
        Daniel J said | October 20th 2009 @ 8:25am | Report comment
        
        oh and one other thing
        
        Firstly, i was merely pointing out the irony of your comment that as an All Black fan having the wallabies smash the All Blacks constistantly by “standing on their own two feet” is something i assume you do not want. This is considering the average reaction of an All Black fan is to instantly cry about how its their god given right to win every game.
        
        Secondly, Wallaby fans anywhere will acknowledge our team were always beaten on the day by a better side, or we have a lack of depth etc. Here is a little pro noun for you.. be gracious in defeat, but even more in victory.
        
        Thirdly, educate yourself, who knows you might have something valid to say – http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26232394-5015651,00.html
        
        katzilla said | October 20th 2009 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
        
        Oh and another thing, Spoilt little brats?
        You don’t want to get into a Sports controversies war here White Knight of the Pure sportsmanship landscape.
        No NZ coach has ever physically assualted a referee after a loss.
        Thats only the most recent, the list goes on.
        
        Daniel J said | October 20th 2009 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
        
        I do not know what on earth you are rambling on about you drunk, but i would gladly get into a discussion about the behaviour of both teams over the decades, again i will lend you an educational hand, from my own knoweldge i can’t remember any Wallaby ever assaulting his pregnant wife….
        
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rugby_union_incidents
        
        katzilla said | October 20th 2009 @ 5:37pm | Report comment
        
        My first response was deleted by the ‘Oh so neutral’ Editors here at the Roar.
        (Not owned by the people who own the Australian are they? Because i did mention it)
        Good for them, how dare anyone say anything bad about the Australian rugby landscape.
        
        Wow a link to Wikipedia, the Hub of all things factual and intellectual. You’ll be presenting articles for the New Yorker before you know it.
        
        Your obviously becoming upset now because you’ve debased yourself by throwing out personal insults. Drunk? Not quite.
        But speaking of Drunks, im sure those Quokkas were asking for it aye?
        
        As much as it pains you for your team to be the Scotland of the 3N you must look past it to a bright future. It is coming surely?
        
        Daniel J said | October 20th 2009 @ 7:44pm | Report comment
        
        Hahahahahaha arrrghhh ‘debased’ myself… playing diplomats are we? your a good kid i’m sure. Upset by the plight of the Wallabies is something Australians have become accustomed to my friend. Feel free to criticise it all you like, in fact i will join you, its become a bit of a past time here on The Roar. Good thing about being on the bottom is we can’t get any lower.
        
        And personally, i have a smorgasbord of successful Australian teams i can follow, what do you have? Point is chap, you would be more upset if Australia beat you in the Bledisloe than what i have been, because that is all you have, don’t deny i have been there when the All Blacks have lost.
        
        And yes it was poor of me to reference wikipedia (those incidents are factual if you actually read it ), unfortunately i have neither time or effort to go and individually source those clippings myself. However, given the childish tone of your replies i will, without hesitation reference the New Yorker in the future for you (which coincidentally i loved as kid).
        
        Thanks for your time, it has been fun and i will leave you with the last word.
        
        cheers
        
        Daniel J said | October 20th 2009 @ 7:48pm | Report comment
        
        ps “Not owned by the people who own the Australian are they? Because i did mention it”
        
        I placed a link to the Australian in my post, if the ‘oh so neutral editors’ had a problem with that as you say, they would have moderated my post also. think before posting, or think before thinking.
        
        Hermin said | October 20th 2009 @ 8:06pm | Report comment
        
        Daniel I love your passion it is good to see however you are getting a little carried away in parts.
        Just two trophies of the top of my head The Rugby League World Cup sits on the shakey Isles as does the Al Ramsey shield for basketball which New Zealand secured after a record score over the Boomers in Wellington, this inturn not only giving them the Oceania Championship but also the higher seeding heading into the FIBA world Championships. In relation to that Australia has never reached the heights New Zealand Did in 2003 where they finished fourth.
        I do recall the NZ netball team just recently won the inagural Fastnet World Championship as well.
        As for the fromer two sports they aren’t too bad a results considering NZ has only one professional team in each code.
        
        I was at the rughby league world cup final so before throwing stones in regards to sore losers have a little think about things first
        
        Daniel J said | October 20th 2009 @ 8:34pm | Report comment
        
        Hermin – cheers for the passion, carried way? maybe but its good sport!
        
        Netball – Australia # 1 http://www.netball.org/ifna.aspx?id=94
        
        Basketball – Adam Shields – yes, hands down bravo to NZ! However, you are wrong. NZ still ranks lower than Australia according to FIBA :/ http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/even/rank/rankMen.asp
        
        Soccer/Football – admittedly, a sad # 24 but for jokes and stick the knife in still above the kiwis
        
        Now as for the rugby league – haha do not get me started on that one, those guys are animals thats for sure and particular the Australian team. And no doubt totally agree with you there, sore losers for sure and congrats to NZ. However you are detracting a little bit from my comments, mine were specifically in regards to rugby.
        
        New Zealanders are fiercely patriotic and it is their national sport, so they have to be upset by losing, my only objection was to the chappy above venemous statements about NZ not needing Australian teams in NPC. Anywho i reaaaaaally must go now! thanks for the posts!
        
        cheers
        
        katzilla said | October 20th 2009 @ 9:50pm | Report comment
        
        Venemous statements about not wanting aussie teams in our rugby comp?
        I didn’t realise you were so desperate, my apologies, I didn’t mean to disrupt your dreams of one day having a team playing in NZ.
        But my comment stands, we don’t need Australians teams in our NPC.
        We seem to have done alright for the last 100 years or so.
        The s14 killed off some interest due to the saturation of rugby in NZ, but because this years S14 was rubbish, and then the 3Ns followed accordingly the NZ public have come out in droves to see quality rugby. Im afraid this wouldn’t be the case if we let lesser teams into our competition. Especially teams with Candy Floss for forward packs.
        
        I know you were upset about the Australian thing, but I said i wrote badly about the Australian newspaper, you merely linked it. Maybe get your mum to read my posts for you.
        That is why the editors deleted my post and that is why i questioned the ownership of the roar.
        
        Those sports Hermin mentioned we have beaten Australia in the very last games played.
        I’m glad your proud of your Wendyball ranking. Soon you’ll all be diving and grabbing your shins with the best of em.
        Toodlepip.
        
        Daniel J said | October 21st 2009 @ 6:22am | Report comment
        
        Ha, me upset? if i were to ge upset by someone, somewhere who cannot string even a few concepts together you are very sadly mistaken, but if thinking that way makes you feel like a the big man to cover you inadequacy, then thats ok. Moreover, to get back to the very point of this little discussion, you said
        
        “bad enough we have to tolerate 4 of your teams during the s14.” and “its not hate we feel, more like pity”
        
        the only one using emotive language in these posts… are you, indicating you are getting upset . You seem to have an uncanny knack for missing the point, again i show you.
        I couldn’t care less if Australia played in the NPC or not, in fact you are on that front, it was your use of language above that caused me to have a ittle fun with you
        
        Now as a Wallaby fan, yes i do feel a sense of duty to defend them because they are my national team, of my national sport. So yes i concede that, and yes they are a shocking team.
        
        However, i say that the only person who will be diving and grabbing their shins would be a person who uses the salutation of “Toodlepip”.
        
        Haha stop embarrassing youself mate
        
        katzilla said | October 21st 2009 @ 10:29am | Report comment
        
        When you say they are your national team of your national sport which country are you talking about? Its not the National sport of Australia. Are you welsh per chance?
        
        Thankyou for your corrections, your grasp of the English Language is extraordinary.
        ‘the only one using emotive language in these posts… are you’
        Pure gold.
        
        I really must stop replying to you, you keep supplying ammunition for further ridicule and its starting to hurt my sides from laughter.
        
        Good luck with your mission, whatever that may be.
JamesB said | October 18th 2009 @ 1:00pm | Report comment

This is only Rugby NZ 2011 operating loss. A look at the bigger picture, and NZ stands to make a fortune out of hosting this event. Take a look at the projected injection of funds into the economy… hundreds of millions! The RWC is finally returning to its spiritual home and to the most beautiful and hospitable country on the planet. Anyone who was on the Lions tour 2005 will attest to that.

In all the countries that have hosted the RWC to date (SA aside), there was no atmosphere and it was difficult to know a RWC was even being held. Rugby is a minority sport in all these countries, again except for SA, but then in SA you spend most of your time being worried about your security. Whereas the whole of NZ will get in behind the RWC… they will live and breathe rugby for 6 weeks, and everywhere you go, all you’ll see and hear is rugby. You see, us Kiwis are passionate about rugby, and that’s why this will be the best world cup to date.

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- Grandpabhaile said | October 19th 2009 @ 1:47am | Report comment
  
  “The RWC is finally returning to its spiritual home and to the most beautiful and hospitable country on the planet. Anyone who was on the Lions tour 2005 will attest to that.”
  
  They will? It’s good to dream I suppose….. The Lions tour of NZ was dour and drab in comparison to most other tours and left a lot to be desired.
  
  “In all the countries that have hosted the RWC to date (SA aside), there was no atmosphere and it was difficult to know a RWC was even being held. Rugby is a minority sport in all these countries, again except for SA, ”
  
  I’m sure France would disagree with that – the WC there was fantastic atmosphere and great fun. The RWC hosted by Wales was pretty good too since rugby would be the number one sport there as well. And the Australia RWC was well received by all accounts.
  
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Westcoast929406 said | October 18th 2009 @ 1:02pm | Report comment

Well well another Rugby Union heartland that cannot support its code – Sounds familiar.
Do not worry folks another football code is on the way to help NZ kids decide which is the way to go to a professional career. AFL club Hawthorn has just launched a move into the NZ Secondary schools looking for future talent and is attracting interest.
Give it 5 years and a lot more kids will be playing our game over there.
Yes we now await for the howls of derision from the Rugby world establishment in NZ, NSW and to a lesser extent QLD.
Link—
http://www.nzafl.co.nz/

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- Norm said | October 18th 2009 @ 1:48pm | Report comment
  
  you can give it as many years as you like wettoast, there’ll still be no more interest in NZ than there is today for the melbourne game.
  
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  - Westcoast929406 said | October 18th 2009 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
    
    We will see who is right then Norm. Interesting perspective on sport in Australia you have as well ” The Melbourne Game”. So is it alright for us to call the other codes ” The English Games” because you are obviously refering to its origins.
    Actually the article topic is very very negative for Rugby Union in NZ. Why would any Rugby supporter post this kind of stuff anyhow as a topic. It can be self fulfilling.
    
    Reply
    - Robb said | October 18th 2009 @ 3:06pm | Report comment
      
      Westcoast – stop being so delusional!
      
      AFL in NZ consists of not much more than a few Aussie expats. There are less than 550 senior players there spread across less than 20 clubs (most of them University teams).
      
      The only sport that could ever come anywhere near Union there is League – and even then it is a very long shot.
      
      Reply
    - ohtani's jacket said | October 18th 2009 @ 3:30pm | Report comment
      
      Better this article than a million stupid code expansion articles.
      
      Reply
    - captain nemo said | October 19th 2009 @ 10:23am | Report comment
      
      westcoast, mate you are brainwashed…… not having a dig at AFL here, just people like you!!! I had a look at your link to kiwi AFL and they picked some kids for their national under 16 side that had actually never played the game. So the Kiwi national representative side has a kid who has never held a sherrin!!! Westcoast, I don’t think I am being out of order when I ask this, but have you ever been to NZ??? I feel you havn’t because the AFL fans who have or who live in NZ would shake their head at your comments!! To make a claim the NZ cannot support rugby and that Hawthorn are moving in on secondary schools would make the administrators in clubs like Hawthorn cringe because people like you westcoast, would create ill feeling for the AFL in NZ. No wonder cuzybro gets all fired up. If the AFL has some limited success in NZ, well it will be a turn up for the books but in this day and age anything is possible, but what you claim westcoast, shows me mate that you need to find a larger circle of friends or maybe take some of your annual leave, make that 3 hour plane ride across the “dutch” and see the reality of the situation. If you went into every pub in NZ, 99.99% of conversations would be on rugby mate.
      This link is for cuzybro
      
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdVHZwI8pcA
      
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      - Redb said | October 19th 2009 @ 10:29am | Report comment
        
        Capt’,
        
        As much as it pains me to say but I agree with you.
        
        Redb
        
        p.s. not about the cuzybro part though he says some stupid things as well.
        
        Reply
    - Elbusto said | October 20th 2009 @ 5:04pm | Report comment
      
      Thanks Westcoast for yet again demonstrating what a pack of smug turds AFL supporters are. Your assumption of superiority is typical of the smart asses who spend their lives boasting about a game nobody else in the world cares about.
      
      Reply
- katzilla said | October 18th 2009 @ 6:02pm | Report comment
  
  I like you AFL guys, your an optimistic bunch. Good luck on your foray into NZ.
  I’m sure the legacy of the black jersey is already quaking in its boots.
  
  Reply
  - Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 6:13pm | Report comment
    
    The website says: In its inaugural season, the competition has already had a massive impact on the development of AFL within New Zealand with the likely sanctioning of the sport by New Zealand Secondary Schools Sports Council.
    
    That sounds fair enough – what’s so funny about that?
    
    Reply
    - ohtani's jacket said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:37pm | Report comment
      
      So what? Do you think rugby is the only secondary school sport?
      
      Reply
    - Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:42pm | Report comment
      
      My sentiments exactly – so what.
      
      Reply
- Redb said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:46pm | Report comment
  
  For the life of me i dont understand why it is necessary to bring AFL into a topic where it is not even mentioned or relevant to the topic.
  
  Support for rugby in NZ has much in common with footy in Melb – we should respect the games tradition and history in NZ not throw in a cheap advert for our game. The Hawthorn initative is terrific but lets not burden the program with absurd expectations.
  
  Redb
  
  Reply
Brett McKay said | October 18th 2009 @ 1:25pm | Report comment

So theoretically at least, if my plan to tour NZ during the pool stages of the RWC comes to pass, I shouldn’t have too much trouble getting tickets?!?!

And also, if the projected loss has grown by another NZ$9M since whenever, what’s the final figure going to be by September 2011?!?

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AndyRoo said | October 18th 2009 @ 1:53pm | Report comment

Previous experience would suggest that people will only really want to get involved once it starts. that’s when tickets like Tonga vs romania sell at any decent rate.

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Robb said | October 18th 2009 @ 2:46pm | Report comment

For all the criticism of the RLWC, it made a profit.

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