By Pippinu -
October 18th 2009 @ 7:01am
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To play or not to play with vim
It’s still hard to believe that having qualified for a second consecutive world cup, for the first time in our history, that Pim continues to receive as much negative criticism as he does plaudits.
The last two Socceroo outings have done nothing to change this mix, certainly not in favour of Pim.
There are two camps that we can identify:
1. Those who have been around a while, understand the enormity of making two consecutive world cups, and fully appreciate that just to replicate Australia’s results in 2006 will be a massive achievement. Let us call these people: the pragmatists.
2. Those who demand far more from Pim and the Socceroos, not just in terms of results, but in terms of what we might call the team’s aesthetic qualities (the ability to string a few passes together). Let us call these people: the fantasy leaguers.
Now, allow me to warn you all, I have no idea where this discussion is about to head, only that I would like to touch on a few inter-related topics. If this doesn’t appeal to you – turn away now.
I have this nagging feeling that we have reached a stage in our football development where perhaps a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.
I am reminded of this when I read the reviews of bloggers of A-League games who are very quick to accuse a coach or team of playing a “long ball” game, and I wonder to myself: have people observed a hapless defender go route one under pressure, and assumed that the manager has instigated a long ball game, or are they truly aware of what a long ball game actually entails in terms of game plan and philosophy?
While the whole long ball philosophy is pilloried in the modern age, curiously its underlying philosophy is backed up by a statistic that remains unchanged since the 1950s, and that is that the vast bulk of goals are scored via four or less passes – in fact, it’s a ridiculously high percentage, not just in some countries, but right across the world.
But let us leave that little oddity there.
Regular and highly esteemed Roar football analyst, Tony Tannous, mentioned soon after the Holland match that Australia was set up to get plenty of crosses in from wide (with Josh backed by Timmy). This was undoubtedly true, the only trouble is that the crosses never came and the Dutch absolutely controlled the game with impunity.
Regular Roar contributor, AndyRoo, made the comment around the same time that he much preferred a recent game that featured Macdonald as the sole striker, for the simple reason that it forced the team to keep the ball on the deck.
However, a few days before the Holland game, Pim made it very clear that the time for experimentation was over, meaning the set up we’ve seen for the last two matches: two screeners and Josh backed by Timmy is probably the set up Pim is thinking of taking into the WC.
Both the Dutch and Omanis gave us a hint of what we can expect in the middle of the ground if we proceed with this sort of game plan, and I think that despite his amazing goal scoring record, we are all starting to understand that Timmy is not going to play as a typical CAM – to be honest – I don’t think he is capable of that (at WC level).
What does it all mean?
If you have connected all the dots – I think it’s pretty obvious.
But my closing question: considering what we are likely to be up against in 2010, with a squad that is starting to look like a shadow of the 2006 version, do we have a lot of choices?
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(52)
sheek said | October 18th 2009 @ 7:22am | Report comment
I don’t claim to be a soccer expert, but I think Pim has selected a style of play based on our strengths.
The strength of the Socceroos is defence, beginning at goalkeeper & extending to fullback & defensive midfielders. Conversely, our greatest weakness is lack of penetrative strikers followed by attacking midfielders.
Our best goals usually come form broken play, on the counter-attack. We’re not strong at consistently breaking down defences. I see Cahill & Kewell, great players that they are, as supporting acts to a striker, or strikers. They shouldn’t be expected to play the role of strikers themselves.
This was our weakness in 2006, & it appears to be our weakness in 2010, this inability to craft goals. I guess it shows as a footballing country we still have a long way to go in developing this side of our game.
That said, Pim has done a fantastic job, cutting his cloth accordingly. Like I said, I’m not a soccer expert, but this is my humble offering.
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 7:50am | Report comment
Sheek
undoubtedly true – we are currently set up to play to our strengths, and personally I don’t have a big problem with that (I actually didn’t make judgement in the article one way or the other), but I am saying, in a convoluted manner:
1. that game plan is one that carries a label that has quite negative connotations; and
2. many, many fans will feel quite let down by that admission.
sheek said | October 18th 2009 @ 8:03am | Report comment
Pip,
And I applaud Pim for getting the most out of limited resources. Our current ranking of 24 is probably a truer indication of our overall ability than the previous mark of 14.
Football is often decided by the odd, make that, lone goal. So having a strong defence to begin with makes perfect sense. I guess we can say we’ve arrived as a football nation when we produce the kind of world-class strikers that can open up the strongest defences.
At present we don’t possess those kind of players. And if some fans are expecting Pim to be a wonderful magician, ….. well, unfortunately he ain’t!
Luke W said | October 18th 2009 @ 7:23am | Report comment
Interesting article. Germany 2006 was an amazing sporting time for all Australian football fans, but it has been both a blessing and a curse. On one hand, it has sparked football’s growth in the sporting landscape. On the other, it gave a lot of casual fans the impression that the Socceroos are capable of beating any side in the world. This simply isn’t true. I just hope that these people watched the Netherlands game and truly understand the mountain we are up against. So, if we are simply are not good enough to compete with the best teams in the world, what approach to we take with them? This is where your two groups come in Pip. The pragmatists say who cares if we sit back and play a defensive style, any result against these teams is a win. Then the fantasy leaguers argue that we shouldn’t be scared of any other teams in the world, should back ourselves and attack them.
I for one am a pragmatist. I believe that a lot of sports fan are either overrating the Socceroos ability or underrating our opponents. Let’s be realistic for a second. We drew 0-0 with the Netherlands which at the World Cup would be a fantastic result, but it was a friendly. The Netherlands clearly never took it to the next level, which they do have, and were missing two or three first teamers, including star striker Robin van Persie. Judging by his form for Arsenal, he would have buried some of the chances that fell for the Hunter.
But, I would like to see Pim more flexible. Under a year away from the World Cup, and I don’t think the Socceroos have even played in a formation other than 4-2-3-1 under him. I’m sorry, but how does a manager reach the international level with one formation? This is the same formation that won the Jets the A-League two years ago, and took Adelaide to the ACL final last year, but it can be countered, and unless managers are flexible enough to change and adapt, a team won’t be successful. Ideally, if I was manager, I wouldn’t start Kennedy, because AndyRoo is right, we are tempted to easily into the long ball (or early cross as it may be) when he is on the field. Save him for the last 20 when we are chasing the game.
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 8:00am | Report comment
Luke
good comments.
4231 was pretty much the norm right across the board at the last WC – I’m pretty sure the top four all played it.
So it’s not a problem with the actual formation.
But in our case, a combination of:
1. not having the equivalent of a Pirlo, a deep-lying, creative DM – Culina comes close, but he’s not really at that same level;
2. our choice of Timmy as a CAM, means we miss out on a second ball-playing mid, Timmy will naturally veer towards being a supporting striker (or a trequartista);
3. a striker who is better in the air than on the ground (as opposed to Dukes who was excellent on the ground for a big man);
means that only one game plan and route to goal is open to us. Not only that – we are going to cede absolute control of the midfield to pretty much all the teams we will come across in the WC.
But here is an interesting question – where are we different compared to 2006?
To answer that question, let us look at what I think was our very best game of 2006 (as it happens, the 2-0 loss to Brazil).
The key differences?
Dukes as the sole striker and Harry as a CAM; and Vinnie and Chippers were four years younger and on top of their game.
It’s happened slowly, but we most surely are in a worse position than we were in 2006 (unless we have some bolters in the next 6 months – but things don’t normally work like that).
As for your point re flexibility – yes – all teams need it – Italy certainly had it in bucket loads last time – they had 10 separate goal scorers, and their highest goal scorer was a central defender!! (who only became a permanent started mid way through the comp).
But this is the point – we are just no where near a team like Italy in terms of personnel – sure – if we meet again, we can just about scrape a result in a one-off situation – but that’s different to surviving the journey over many weeks.
Perversely – and we’ve seen this before where lesser lights have surprised – Pim’s set up is the sort of set up that can survive deep into tournaments.
tifosi said | October 18th 2009 @ 8:23am | Report comment
I see foz is up to his usual tricks:
“Passable results do not hide the fact this team destined to fail”
http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/football/craig-foster/2009/10/17/1255624771132.html
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 8:33am | Report comment
Well – it’s pretty hard to argue with Fos on this occasion.
We have to accept that the Dutch made us look second rate, and the Omanis went very close to doing the same.
As we approach the WC, the big question will become: do we continue with PIm’s policy of containment, or do we risk utter humiliation by taking the game on?
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 8:39am | Report comment
By the way tifosi – I should add that I hadn’t seen Fos’ article until you put the link up.
dasilva said | October 18th 2009 @ 8:18pm | Report comment
“All this with the most un-Dutch Dutchman at the helm.”
I have to say. I do find that funny.
tifosi said | October 18th 2009 @ 8:42am | Report comment
Before the Omani game Assistant Coach Henk Duut said that Australians have to understand that its the result that matters and that 1 nil is enough. For a second i thought he was an italian!!
At the end of the day winning 7 games 1 nil will win you the World Cup, Thats the way pim approaches his tactics, it might be ugly but he will always play like this. Greece did the same thing at euro 2004
I guess the other teams in our group will also have a bearing on the structure employed by pim.
Joe FC said | October 18th 2009 @ 8:45am | Report comment
Good article Pippinu. Whether we like it or not we all inhabit a results oriented world and so far Pim has done everything asked of him. I think a part of the reason that Pim continues to receive bad press is that too many Socceroo supporters underrate the opposition, particularly the other Asian nations and thus harbor unreal expectations whenever we compete. As sheek says Pim is making the best use of his resources, he can’t do any more than that. It’s a good thing to be looking to improve our quality of football but as somebody recently said here on the Roar striving for perfection will drive us all mad.
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:12am | Report comment
tifosi/Joe
good posts.
I saw the Henk Duut interview, and of course he makes a lot of sense – but it won’t endear him to many fans!!
Conversely, I read somewhere that a Dutch assistant coach was quoted as saying (in relation to Australia): I don’t know what it is, but it’s not Dutch football.
Luke W said | October 18th 2009 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Sorry for the off topic, but what do you guys think about Sunderland’s goal against Liverpool last night? Liverpool were pretty hard done by, and in a perfect world, Sunderland shouldn’t have let the goal stand.
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 2:53pm | Report comment
HT Jets 1 MV 0
Re the Sunderland goal – firstly, it’s one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen in sport, and secondly, I’m happy because I’ve had Bent in my Fantasy team since week one, and he has made me a shit load of points.
Bozza summed it up nicely only some 15 minutes ago.
If he had been playing for Sunderland, he would have been rapt, if he had been playing for Liverpool, he would have refused to continue.
One last thing – it was a Liverpool beach ball – so all I can say is: bad luck!!!
Robb said | October 18th 2009 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
In fairness it was a Liverpool beach ball. The idiot that threw it onto the field got what he deserved!
dasilva said | October 18th 2009 @ 10:14am | Report comment
To be fair on the fantasy leaguers
I do believe their point was not based on aesthetic that their point is based on future results.
That your ability to control the game is an accurate predictor in how the results will be in the world cup. That we don’t need to have a semblance of control in the game to win against Asian opposition but we do need that to win matches at the world cup and that Australia is likely to flop because of that.
This isn’t about playing aesthetically pleasing football for the sake of it which the “style brigade” often gets caricatured into.
In fact it is not even about playing attacking football either. If Australia kept possession and limit the opposition to very few chances while keeping the ball but without playing with any adventure or style. That would still be considered controlling the game as the likes of Foster has mention before. After all didn’t Craig Foster praised the match of Australia against China in Kunming. That was a turgid match but we only limited china to one clear cut chance on goal and we controlled the match by keeping the ball and wearing the chinese side out. After all you can play defensive possession football.
The problem is that virtually every game Australia has played against Asian opponents. The opposition has had some clear cut chances on goal. Therefore we are relying on opponents mistake to win the game and perhaps our strength of our defence is overated.
As Foster said, it’s not about style, it’s about not relying on luck to win a game. Let’s face it australia has been lucky in a few of the matches.
AndyRoo said | October 18th 2009 @ 2:06pm | Report comment
“I do believe their point was not based on aesthetic that their point is based on future results”
This is what I am thinking. I was firmly in the number 1 camp before. and it’s still all about result me. I think it’s fantastic that we are the top rated team in Asia. I would have been really proud ofeven third place.
I will never forget what pim and the boys have achieved by getting us here, logisticaly this was a massive task and we saw all our national teams struggle when they first moved into asia.
I am worried about how we are going to beat teams though. Through the middle we are hopeless, at the world cup It’s going to be a case of fingers crossed and hope whoever is partnering lucas is up to it and Schwarzer is goal keeper of the tournament.
If that gets us into the second round I will be happy…… but without a good draw i feel it is unlikely.
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 10:18am | Report comment
Good points Das.
Robbos said | October 18th 2009 @ 10:52am | Report comment
I wrote a long post & when I tried to post it, my computer went down & I lost it.
The gist of the post (which was a masterpiece) was based on the difference between WC06 & WC10.
In 06 we had Hiddink, Kewell was very very good, Viduka, an unknown Timmy & Bresc & Emerton. Plus we also were an unknown factor & expectations were not high so a couple of comendable losses to Brazil & Italy was embraced & getting to 2nd round was a massibe achievement. In 06 we overachieved.
This year, we have no Hiddink, this is not a criticism of Pim, but Hiddink is top 3 coaches in the world , no Viduka, Harry is not as dynamic as in 06, Timmy though better is now well known, Emerton has been injured for a year. Our expectation is so much higher (drawing with Holland was seen as negative).
So the question is do we approach the pragmatic way, go for draws & maybe a lucky 1-0 win or the fantasy league, go there to win & get beaten 2-0 or 3-1 because we do not have the cattle. At what stage are we in the development of football in this country?
Most Fantasy leaguers felt we were robbed against Italy in 06 & who knows where we could have gone after that.
Most Pragmatists knows Italy should have buried that game by half time & even against 10 men in the 2nd half we struggled against the best team in the world playing with 10 men.
As for the long ball theory, AndyRoo said it perfectly, Nagoya has Josh Kennedy up front & they use him much better than Australia does. The less than 4 pass goal is at a very high %, but if you went down this route everytime, it becomes predictable, but if you use the long ball theory sparingly, it can be a surprise.
clayton said | October 18th 2009 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
i think it is really hard to put labels on the two camps without showing a preference for one or the other …
one person`s pragmatism is another person`s pessimism. i think that the team can play better football, and that our personnel isn`t being used as effectively as it could be. and i think i am a fairly pragmatic, live-in-the-real world person.
there are some really big questions mixed into these labels.
is the team capable of playing better (more effective) football? or is this as good as the current group is capable of? what is good football?
deep stuff eh?
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 1:41pm | Report comment
clayton
I think that’s a fair point.
I veer, towards the pragmatists generally speaking – but Fos’ view in today’s SMH is fair enough.
Also as das said, it’s possible to be defensive (or “organised”, as Pim put it this morning) and to also be able to hold on to the ball a bit more.
Interestingly, in that interview on Offsiders, Pim touched on some of the issues we’re discussing on this thread, including Sheek’s opening post – that his current set up is geared towards the strengths of his playing personnel.
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 1:37pm | Report comment
Robbos
agree on all points – including your conclusion.
I know the feeling of losing a long post – who knows how much brilliance the rest of the world has missed out on?
danny said | October 18th 2009 @ 1:48pm | Report comment
interesting article from some slater guy.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/its-time-for-kewell-to-lead/story-e6freyar-1225787865641
suggesting playing timmy as a striker, with harry as the cam and bresh/emmo on the wings. a decent proposal, well worth considering. whilst it will prob lessen timmy’s effectiveness (he certainly plays better just behind a striker, imo) i think having a ball-playing central mid would lift the side overall. and i agree with slater that harry’s looked better in the middle rather than out left. i definitely think it’s an option worth looking at, leaving jesus as an impact player (would certainly force us to stop playing the route one all the time). another thing to consider would be ruka/vidosic instead of bresh/emmo. could be worth a look.
FIsher Price said | October 19th 2009 @ 8:51am | Report comment
Cahill playing as a striker would allow Bresciano – who is far more skilful and creative – to play as an attacking midfielder makes sense to me.
Because, after all, Cahill’s contribution, beyond goals, is negligible.
danny said | October 19th 2009 @ 5:31pm | Report comment
agreed. his goal-scoring is better when he’s an advanced centre mid i think, but i’d say australia’s OVERALL goal scoring potential would be improved with cahill up front and bresh, harry and emmo across the middle.
would be something worth testing out, perhaps in the return fixture against oman.
the all rounder said | October 18th 2009 @ 3:54pm | Report comment
this is typically fascinating ROAR. many valid points, many very well-thought through. we need a world-class striker! Scott McDonald, as much as I love the guy, is only playing in the Scottish Premier League. Bolton Wanderers would beat Celtic.
And after watching John Aloisi since his arrival in the A-League, I don’t know how he scored that beauty against Japan.
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 4:00pm | Report comment
Only playing in the SPL – when the Schwatter, Cahill, Emo and Neill retire – that might be all we have!!
JA was probably at his peak 3 to 4 years ago – remember he had an excellent confederations cup in 2005 for team that failed to get a single point.
the all rounder said | October 18th 2009 @ 4:04pm | Report comment
thanks for remininding me Pip. and i didn’t mean to rip the SPL too much, I was merely indicating that if we are to attain the success the fantasy leaguers think we deserve, there’d have to be an Australian striker in the EPL, Serie A, Bundesliga or Primera Liga. please don’t mention Richard Garcia!
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 4:13pm | Report comment
Your’re right of course – thankfully we do have a few promising youngsters coming through the Bundesliga (Vidosic and Spira), and Turkey might also end up being a decent comp to breed future Socceroos.
tifosi said | October 18th 2009 @ 4:10pm | Report comment
If all players are fit i do think this will be the team that should start at the world cup.
The talent is there. The only problem is the speed. Many players are on the way down physically.
Schwarzer
Wilkshire Neill Moore Chipperfield
Culina Grella
Emerton Cahill Bresciano
Kewell
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 4:11pm | Report comment
I know this is slightly off topic, and yet everything is related.
I posted the HT score of the Jets and Victory match above, the Victory came back with the three second half goals to win 3-1 in what was a pretty good display.
Speaking of long balls, it took a 60 metre ball from Carlos from a a free deep in our own half to score our first – but the control and finish from Arch was impressive.
As some posters have already said – there is a difference between catching the defence napping with an inch perfect long ball – and just bombing ad nauseum.
Unfortuantely, we don’t have Carlos in a Socceroo shirt.
If you have Carlos in your fantasy team, you’d be rapt because he helped set up the second goal when he absolutely smacked it from 30 m, it’s nearly knocked the goals over, and Tommy P was there for the tap in.
Just prior to that, Haliti was unlucky not to score his second with a thunderous header that also smashed against the crossbar – he was a threat most of the game.
Carlos finally got on the scoresheet himself when Arch broke in space, drew the defence towards him and found Carlos streaming forward on his own, his first touch was heavy taking him on a bit of an angle, but then managed to left foot it through Kennedy’s legs with just enough on it to beat the defenders tracking back.
Big win for Melbourne to stay in contention – Jets were unlucky, they were pretty good most of the match.
Two big mentions for youngsters coming off the bench.
Dugandzic has now made about three appearances off the bench – reminds me a lot of Vidosic in the way he runs with the ball – and boy this kid can play. It’s no surprise that he is of Croation background and has come through an “old soccer” club.
The question does need to be asked – are we at risk of throwing the baby out with the bath water? Think back to when Aust played Croatia in 2006, and about 10 players on the pitch, for both sides, were Australians with Croatian backgrounds, most of whom would have come through a handful of “old soccer” clubs.
Lastly, Elasi finally made his debut when he replaced Tommy P. He’s actually a striker but was forced to play in midfield, and in the context of the game – I thought he did all right – he certainly wasn’t overawed.
AndyRoo said | October 18th 2009 @ 5:37pm | Report comment
One thing I noticed was the poor jets fans having to shield their eyes from the sun. doesn’t look a good stadium for daylight games.
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 6:16pm | Report comment
I have a vague memory that Bruce (in Canberra) is exactly the same during the Winter months – from one side of the ground, the setting sun is absolutely blinding.
tifosi said | October 18th 2009 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
Pip, good observations.
Its good to see these kids getting games, i think its essential that they get playing time during the year.
I watched Genoa v Inter last night where Inter won 5 nil. Wesley Sneidjer is a key part of that Inter team now, everything seems to flow from him. Hernandez does the same for Melbourne.
Like you mentioned before Australia lack that type of player who can get the ball off a defender and set up plays consistently.
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 4:21pm | Report comment
tifosi
MV hasn’t had a great track record of blooding youngsters (well, certainly not as good a record as teams like the Roar, SFC and the Jets) – but we’ve changed that a bit this year.
Another young kid who has had game time this year is Foschini – all have shown a bit – and that’s the idea.
the all rounder said | October 18th 2009 @ 4:18pm | Report comment
i do have Carlos! too bad i took him off captain this week for the away game. and thompson too. good times. speaking of this player aka hernandez, sneijder, pirlo etc. who do you think is australia’s best player of this type? or do we even have any?
some would say nick carle, others (more correctly) would say its culina. or is it someone else?
Pippinu said | October 18th 2009 @ 4:25pm | Report comment
That’s a big question and debate in its own right!!
I think over the last four or so years, Culina has been the one playing that Pirlo role (he sits deeper for the Socceroos than he does for GCU) – and he hasn’t been bad – but he’s not in the same class as Pirlo – that’s not be offensive – Pirlo is amongst, or has been amongst, the best of the best.
To be honest, we havn’t seen enough of Carle at NT level to judge. He started his career playing closer to the front third – many have written that he is now a bit more adaptable and could probably slot in to Culina’s position.
But I just don’t know.
Let’s not forget that Pim favours work rate – and Jase has plenty of that – so it’s a hard one to judge without more evidence.
tifosi said | October 18th 2009 @ 4:34pm | Report comment
Culina seemed to do it under Hiddink, but Pim does not employ that style of play so he doesnt feel the need for one I think
Art Sapphire said | October 18th 2009 @ 10:56pm | Report comment
Here is some more info on future Socceroo Mate Dugandzic. He left the Melbourne Knights in 2008 for a spell with Dinamo Zagreb. After playing well in the reserves, he was loaned out to a second division team Lokomotiva Zagreb where he scored 6 goals in 14 appearances as the team won promotion to the 1st Division. He must of set up a number of goals as well. He turns 20 next week, the future is is looking bright for him.
The lesson here is that Australia’s blessing is that we are such a diverse multicultural country and we will have footballers developed from cultured football backgrounds. As long as we have players like Mate coming through, all this talk of long ball will be rendered obsolete.
The numbers of passes it take score a goal is a worthless stat. World Cups are not won by nations that can’t control a game and resort to hoofing it up the park.
Roger said | October 19th 2009 @ 3:52pm | Report comment
Pip – great article.
One comment, I think that the unfortunate reality is that – barring some kind of coaching breakthrough – the 2006 World Cup will be the highlight of our international success for quite some time.
Pippinu said | October 19th 2009 @ 3:57pm | Report comment
Roger
thanks.
Never say never – but there is plenty pointing in that direction.
We’ve said it before here on the Roar, and someone was talking about it recently on TV in some show, can’t remember where – that there is a massive gap between up and comers like Vidosic and Spira and about 10 Socceroos who are all on the wrong side of 30, or soon to be – they used the expression “doughnut effect”.
There ain’t no one coming through playing in the Premiership from a youngish age – but – there are stacks of youngish players spread out across many very good leagues (incl Bundesliga, Turkish league, Greek league, etc) – so it’s not necessarily all gloom and doom.
Art Sapphire said | October 19th 2009 @ 4:06pm | Report comment
By virtue of a weak group and results falling their way, the Ukraine made it all the way to the Quarter finals in 2006 and they had a worse team than Australia. So I will wait for the WC draw before I can try and predict what might happen in 2010.
For 2014 – If Vidosic, Spiranovic, Duganzic, Rukavytsa, Kantarovski keep developing we will be putting out a pretty handy team. So no need to get pessimistic yet.
Pippinu said | October 19th 2009 @ 4:42pm | Report comment
agreed
danny said | October 19th 2009 @ 5:35pm | Report comment
and if development continues for lots of youngsters, 2018 could be even better than 06. a bunch of youngsters who will be thrown in the deep end following post-2010 retirements will be nearing their peak. fingers crossed.
AndyRoo said | October 19th 2009 @ 4:08pm | Report comment
Which would people rate higher winning the Asian Cup or the 06 Campaign. I would vote for the Asian cup without blinking but I am not sure how the general populous would react.
If winning the Asian cup wouldn’t overtake the 06 Campaign you can see why it’s going to be a real struggle to raise the bar.
Also winning the asian cup seems a real long shot for 2011.
Art Sapphire said | October 19th 2009 @ 4:24pm | Report comment
We will win it Andy when we host the thing!
Pippinu said | October 19th 2009 @ 4:43pm | Report comment
very hard to compare
06 was very important for a lot of historical reasons (and it may be the best we do for a long time – you never know in the WC)
But winning the Asian Cup would be a massive achievement.
constantine said | October 19th 2009 @ 7:17pm | Report comment
winning the asian cup, i want silverware
tifosi said | October 19th 2009 @ 6:53pm | Report comment
Jesse Fink’s thoughts from theworldgame website
Pim must choose adventure over caution:
http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blogs/halftimeorange/pim-must-choose-adventure-over-caution-247331
Pippinu said | October 19th 2009 @ 7:09pm | Report comment
Wow – there’s only one thing on peoples’ minds at the moment.
I think Jesse is exaggerating a bit when he says we should have gone further last WC – but he mentions some interesting stats – anyway, it has been particularly observable the last two games – but to follow up no.3 with no.79 in almost the identical manner is what stands out the most.
On the other hand – both Pim and Henk would say that we are now in WC mode – we are gearing up for what will most likely be a very tough group.
tifosi said | October 19th 2009 @ 7:32pm | Report comment
We will have to wait until after the world cup to see how this ends but we will be saying one of two things :
“We told You so” or “That Pim is a genius” !!
constantine said | October 19th 2009 @ 7:22pm | Report comment
just regarding one of the comments above (robbie slaters article regarding the socceroos) i am beside myself that robbie slater is writing for the daily terrorist. for the fact they have not hired somebody to report on the oman game and pass on the message how unaustralian, unmanly, woosy and disgraceful the sport is (yes rebecca wilson i am looking at you) puts me in shock. have the daily terrorist finally realized that they should hire people who understand the sport and not infuriate all its followers by putting up biased pieces by ppl with no clue. mmmmmm maybe its a token gesture that they actually dont want to do everything possible to run the sport into the ground