Melbourne Victory's Archie Thompson (right) walks past as the Central Coast Mariners players celebrate winning round 1 of the 2009/10 A-League season in Melbourne, Thursday, Aug. 6, 2009. The Mariners beat Victory 2-0. AAP Image/Joe Castro
The A2-League, or whatever the second division mentioned by Frank Lowy at the Melbourne Victory business luncheon will be called, needs to be forgotten. With crowds fading across the country, it’s the last thing the game needs, even if it is a long-term possibility.
Put simply, it’s not a realistic possibility considering the fragile state the code is in.
Relegation to the second division would be a potentially fatal blow to an A-League club. They aren’t secure enough in their respective markets to sustain such demotion.
See the Newcastle Jets as an example of how great the impact of poor form is on crowd figures. The Jets enjoy a large media profile in the region, and the memories of their championship success are not too distant. Yet crowds have plummeted with inconsistent results.
Just imagine what relegation to a second division would do to the franchise.
Also, how will the FFA be able to sustain two leagues and all these extra clubs considering the current financial state of the game?
Promotion and relegation may be important for Australian football’s global recognition, especially as it argues its case for the World Cup bid, but the reality of the A-League’s status precludes our system being modelled on countries in which the game has a larger footprint.
The FFA needs to accept this point, perhaps looking to the MLS over in America as a guide. The MLS has operated for a longer period of time than the A-League, yet it still has no second division. It knows its franchises could not sustain such a blow.
However, there is an obvious concept the FFA could embrace to help the A-League reach a wider audience while helping to appease the international football community that’s supposedly demanding an expansion of the code’s foundations.
The governing body has mooted an FFA Cup competition in the past, akin to England’s FA Cup. However, the concept seems to have been shelved with Lowy’s intimation showing that a second division is the priority before a Cup competition.
But, even if Mr. Lowy is determined on a second division one day, the FFA Cup could act as a prelude to the A2-League, strengthening and promoting the various state leagues, reconnecting ‘old soccer’ with ‘new football’. It would, crucially, help strengthen the state league level of the Australian game and help prepare it for assimilation into a wider national structure.
Why create new clubs from scratch when so many already exist?
The potential of an FFA Cup is endless.
As Gold Coast United coach Miron Bleiberg told the Courier Mail, such a concept “could re-connect the parties” of the game at all levels.
It would be a symbolic union between A-League franchises and clubs that have a direct connection to the grassroots of the game, and some of whom who played such a large part in Australian football history.
When Lowy discussed the prospect of a second division, he said, “The larger competition will generate greater interest around the country, not just in isolated pockets of Australia, but a truly national game”
The FFA Cup would achieve this, with clubs already in existence, while A-League clubs would benefit from increased exposure in their respective communities. We all know they haven’t done a good enough job in connecting with many of these football communities. This is the perfect opportunity to work side-by-side with local clubs to strengthen the foundations of the code.
And crucially, as opposed to the second division talk, it protects the A-League franchises from the possibility of relegation, therefore ensuring their long-term economic sustainability.
There will be a visible connection to all tiers of the game.
An FFA Cup needs to be put on the FFA’s agenda; long before the second division is formulated.
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Paulo Roberto Sanchotene said | October 25th 2009 @ 3:25am | Report comment
Well, in the US, the US Open Cup never ceased to be played…
Marlon said | October 25th 2009 @ 6:53am | Report comment
Great article, good point. 2nd division would end any of the teams.
Freud of Football said | October 25th 2009 @ 7:10am | Report comment
I mentioned this in another article but I’ll say it again here.
A second division is as is pointed out, financially not feasible. Adrian also made the point to utilise the other clubs that already exist in this FFA Cup.
Personally I’d rather just see a second division, not directly connected with the A-League in that there are no promotions/relegations to begin with. Each state league or area-league could produce representative teams to compete in interstate games.
There is no reason why this can’t work, the supporter bases and infrastructure exist, the clubs are already backed financially and any “super” club made up of players of clubs from a league is bound to receive financial backing (look at the AFL crows for a business model).
If these teams were to be established, over time they could grow into franchises and into a proper A2-League. A cup is a fine idea but it doesn’t bring about long term change, it won’t improve the game as teams get knocked out and don’t get to continually face quality opposition.
Michael Turner said | October 28th 2009 @ 12:52pm | Report comment
I agree with you on all accounts. I reckon the A-League should abandon the franchise model if the club doesn’t want it, and just use current clubs in state leagues. Personally, there are many things the FFA have done wrong, but many have done right. The salary cap should be increased and the FFA members on the board of clubs, can knock a bid down if it endangers a club’s financial security. Anyways that my view, bring on FFA Cup, or seperate A2 league with State Leaugue no P and R
tifosi said | October 25th 2009 @ 7:11am | Report comment
Adrian i agree.
If the old NSL clubs can show they still have support during the FFA cup then you could think about creating a second division.
I do know that the winner of the US Open cup gets a spot in the Concacaf Champions league, maybe this carrot is required for the victor in the future.
Dom said | October 26th 2009 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
Thats a really good idea. The winner could have a place in the AFC champions league the following season. Or that AFC cup thing they are trying to model on the Uefa cup
zach said | October 25th 2009 @ 7:39am | Report comment
Australia cant sustain a national soccer league! the cuntry is just to big we need a national cup. The European champians league is not a league as such its a cup compatition, we should be doing the same as them
Freud of Football said | October 25th 2009 @ 7:55am | Report comment
Has anyone considered how on earth this FFA cup is meant to work? The FA Cup in England is fine, you’ve got structured, tiered leagues where even teams in the 4th and 5th level get crowds in there thousands. How does Australia compare? A-League, then various state-leagues, what’s underneath that?
How are these smaller teams meant to be able to finance the travel for such games? Many of them probably have grounds with no proper seating or maybe a few hundred and we want to drag our A-League clubs down to that level? Or are we saying the FFA Cup is just between teams in the state leagues and the A-League – I don’t think I need to point out how nonsensical that notion would be.
If we are all so sure that a second division cannot be supported in the current setup, why would a cup with even smaller clubs work?
Timmuh said | October 25th 2009 @ 9:49am | Report comment
Fair point. And I must profess my ignorance of our Association Football set up.
Would it be possible to have a knockout phase early, consisting of local clubs in regional knockouts. Then, as the top few state league clubs, and any locals that last that long, come together in groups
Roughly:
- qualifying phases, as knockout, at a regional level starting with local clubs and incorporating state league clubs; until only the top few are left. This minimises travel costs, and will avoid South Hobart hosting Melbourne Victory in front of 15 people and a 45-0 scoreline
- round robin first round, incorporating just those who got through that qualifying phase – this could still be knockout, but having a short league-like structure allows for the next tier to get more top level games
- then the A-League clubs come back in, either with another group phase (again, great for the next tier to get more games against the best opposition; it might also cover the “lack of games” complaint of many A-League fans) or as knockout
- 1/4 finals onwards all knockout
Even this might be impossible, and leaves big questions unanswered (how far down would the cup go? what regional settings would be used? and how many from each region get to play in the games when the state league clubs come in?) And, of course, is it affordable?
megatron said | October 25th 2009 @ 3:37pm | Report comment
It could be state based in the early rounds so teams won’t have to travel, then expand at the later rounds.
Freud of Football said | October 25th 2009 @ 4:22pm | Report comment
This wouldn’t help a lot. Consider the distances the regional teams will have to travel, yes if it is state based then it won’t be as far but we’re still talking about hundreds of kilometres and these will be amateur footballers, not pro’s who are paid for it.
Timmuh said | October 26th 2009 @ 8:12pm | Report comment
The early regions don’t have to be as big as a state. And there would be clubs who don’t wish to participate, and others for who any set up would be impossible due to distance. The point would be to make it as inclusive as possible. That might mean starting with five or six regions in Queensland for example.
Its quite possibly still not viable. Or may be just not viable to include country areas, NT or Tasmania.
There is also another big difference between Australia and other nations. In, for example, England people follow their club. If they follow Woking they don’t also follow West Ham; they certainly watch EPL but their heart is with their club. Australian soccer would be expecting people to follow both Melbourne Heart (such a bad name, hopefully they won’t actually use it) and South Melbourne, and then put them up against each other … it is perhaps not such a great move to force people to choose between clubs like that.
Mossy said | October 25th 2009 @ 8:11am | Report comment
If the FFA truly wants to win the Code War, it needs to saturate the market and connect with all levels of football across this vast nation.
Step 1- create the FFA Cup, consisting of all state league clubs and A-League across Aus. The opening three rounds are done at regional level between the state league clubs, round 4 into state championships, round 5 A-League clubs enter as per FA Cup. Allowance for travel etc provided by FFA Cup sponsorship to clubs who would be more than willing to travel for a chance of knocking off top guns.
Imagine Broadmeadow Magic taking down Central Coast Mariners at Bluetongue. Half of Newcastle would travel to watch this match!
Some early matches could be played at A-League venues as curtain raisers.
This needs to be set up immediately to capitalize on WC2010.
Step 2- consolidate a 10 team A-League for at least 3 years. 12 is too many at this stage.
Step 3- A2 League developed (10 teams) with promotion/relegation play off between winner of A2 and last placed A1. Imagine the atmosphere of this!
Football food for thought
Pippinu said | October 25th 2009 @ 8:38am | Report comment
is there a code war?
michaelunt said | October 25th 2009 @ 8:39am | Report comment
yes
Pippinu said | October 25th 2009 @ 8:45am | Report comment
…and Ascot Vale playing Tuggeranong United in front of 10 people will somehow win this war?
megatron said | October 25th 2009 @ 8:48am | Report comment
Melbourne Victory V South Melbourne or Sydney FC V Marconi might help it.
michaelunt said | October 25th 2009 @ 8:52am | Report comment
Yes Ascotvale v Tuggeranong United will win it. Because for every spectator at that game there are 1000 kids playing Football in Canberra.
Pippinu said | October 25th 2009 @ 8:57am | Report comment
michaelunt
that’s true, maybe more – and yet the FFA snubbed its nose at all these veritable riches.
I’m not sure if you know, but soccer has had the highest participation rate in NSW since 1930s.
So maybe the code war has already been won?
michaelunt said | October 25th 2009 @ 8:59am | Report comment
Wow thanks for the amazing revelation about Football’s participation rates. Lucky for Football these relate to real participants and not the ‘AUSKICK’ BS dished up by the AFL in yet another pathetic exercise in ‘LOOK AT ME’!!!!
Pippinu said | October 25th 2009 @ 9:02am | Report comment
michaelunt
I”ve already submitted – you’ve won the code war – congratulations!!
michaelunt said | October 25th 2009 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Well Pippy baby I do not follow football so its a nil all draw.
Pippinu said | October 25th 2009 @ 9:09am | Report comment
There is one confusing aspect about all of this, and on this wikipedia article about sports attendances, in average crowds (per game over a season), the AFL comes out on top of the EPL and is 4th, only below the Bundesliga, the IPL and the NFL.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attendance_figures_at_domestic_professional_sports_leagues
It’s quite confusing really – who could ever have imagined that a pissant competition at the arse end of the world would be able to sit 4th amongst all the professional competitions of the world??!!
Dogs Of War said | October 25th 2009 @ 9:16am | Report comment
Says a lot about Australians to have 3 comps in the top 20 attendance average wise (outdoor sports only).
Do you think A-League can reach 16K or so, to make it 4 sports in the top 20?
michaelunt said | October 25th 2009 @ 9:20am | Report comment
Pippinu the problem in o matter how many people watch AFL in Australia nobody else cares. Thats the problem you never acknowledge. Its an obsession for a part of Australia and nobody else cares.
You never address this do you. And we know why.
Dogs Of War said | October 25th 2009 @ 9:24am | Report comment
I think that’s a bit unfair Michaelunt. We all love our sports, and plenty do care about AFL, geez Redb and Pip are evidence that people do. No different to how much I love my League. Getting up at 5:30am so I could be ready to watch the Aussies play NZ (top match!).
michaelunt said | October 25th 2009 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Dogs I got up to watch the League as well and I loved it. The problem with Pippinu and his mates here is that nearly every posting is loaded with AFL spin about it being the better sport.
They wil deny it of course but its there for all to see.
By the way a drawn match was a great result.
Pippinu said | October 25th 2009 @ 9:28am | Report comment
mIchaelunt
there’s nothing to addres – Australians love their footy – that’s good enough for me!!!
Pippinu said | October 25th 2009 @ 10:14am | Report comment
michaelunt
well, at least one person is paying attention!
phew – for a minute there I thought I was the only one reading my clever, witty, insightful posts.
Norm said | October 25th 2009 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
“a pissant competition”…yes I would agree that assessment is insightful.
megatron said | October 25th 2009 @ 8:46am | Report comment
Yes, stop denying its existence.
Griffo said | October 25th 2009 @ 3:48pm | Report comment
I don’t think the code war is so solely about poaching fans from one game to another, but about the advertising dollar. Media coverage is based on advertising space and right now the other codes have a lot too lose and football so much to gain: compare, say, League coverage in most papers compared to A-League (I think there was an article on SBS:TWG site about this). More advertising dollar to the editors, more A-League coverage. The next TV deal also a case in point at the growth potential of advertisement for the game. Football also has an ace up its sleave: Asian advertising sponsorship – when A-League clubs start taking their asian presence seriously, they and the game will get greater exposure here and abroad with extra advertising funding.
Australia is a saturated sporting market, and culturally love their sport, so while I don’t think other codes will die as such, there is room for presence of another code in their mindset, funded by advertising sponsorship of football.
constantine said | October 25th 2009 @ 9:50pm | Report comment
true, asian is a trumpcard.
Dogs Of War said | October 25th 2009 @ 9:59pm | Report comment
Some A-League clubs have gone about recruiting supporters the wrong way. Given that A-League crossover into the AFL/NRL seasons is small, they should be actively targeting that support to also attend A-League games. Maybe even get a deal where if you are a member of let’s say the North Queensland Cowboys you get a discount (offered via the NRL club). As well as creating areas in the club supporter forums for AFL/NRL talk.
megatron said | October 26th 2009 @ 4:24pm | Report comment
Makes sense, especially in that market, Gold Coast seem to have been too arrogant to work with other clubs in their market
AndyRoo said | October 26th 2009 @ 4:28pm | Report comment
I could actually imagine that happening with Rovers because they are in West Sydney where there a few teams to work with and there probably more receptive to such an idea because they feel their rivals are the other NRL clubs rather than a summer football team. Storm, MV and the Rebels could also do something similar.
In the regional markets I could understand the Rugby league boys not feeling the urge to cooperate with a new competitor, which is fair enough.
M1tch said | October 26th 2009 @ 6:44pm | Report comment
Rovers will do okay I think, especially if they are based at Parra stadium
Gold Coast would now kill to be linked with the Titans, they can thank Palmer for that, Searle wanted a buddy partnership to
LT80 said | October 25th 2009 @ 12:34pm | Report comment
Which would be better – 2 division of 8 teams or a single division of 16 teams?
Surely you don’t need P&R until the league has expanded to the point where you can’t have any more in the top division.
What is wrong with creating a second division from the state league sides plus any new teams and just promoting teams from there when they were ready (ie they won second division plus had appropriate facilities)?
zach said | October 25th 2009 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
re freud of football
Stop comparing Australia to england, just becouse england has a national league doesnt mean we have to have one as well. we should be comparing Australia to europe, and our state leagues with the EPL. you take the best three or so teams from the state leagues and put them in a champions league and scrap the a-league.
the fact that Australia has a smaller population than europe makes my point more valid
Joe FC said | October 25th 2009 @ 4:01pm | Report comment
Fair enough Adrian but your comments are hardly breaking news. The FFA and everybody else who matters have and will continue to give plenty of thought to an FA cup and 2nd tier competition. Frank Lowy is just like the rest of us, what we say in public is not necessarily what we think in private. How ‘fragile’ the code currently is depends upon perspective and perception. It certainly has its shortcoming and weaknesses but is also not without hope and promise. We don’t need to think about throwing the towel in just yet.
AndyRoo said | October 25th 2009 @ 4:27pm | Report comment
In the AFC documentation for the current comps you can get the points for having P&R towards ACL spots by showing commitment to P&R rather than actually having to have it implemented. I am hopinf this is Lowy saying all the right things to get us the 3rd spot in the ACL which is given out at the end of november.
If we keep developing our comp and the teams that go to Asia have a positive influence (e.g. when Sydney FC played Urawa they took away fans) then our spots will become entrenched and we might never have to commit financial suicide that is P&R.
It’s going to be a real battle to get even a third spot because it will have to be China or Korea that it will come from. Indonesia and Thailand have all made big strides and are pressuring for more spots so the AFC wont be reducing the 2 playoff spots that is for sure.