Comments on: Forget the second division; create the FFA Cup http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/ The Roar is a sports opinion website. We tackle sports opinion rather than simply sports news. And we embed user-generated content — in the form of articles and comments — into the fabric of the site. Featuring some of the best sports writers in Australia — including the Sydney Morning Herald's Spiro Zavos — The Roar aims to be the leading sports website in Australia. Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:16:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Footbal Person http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-299962 Footbal Person Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:31:08 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-299962 I would much rather the second division. I have gone over the possibility of an elite league in my head, the crowds are huge.......but, its eerily quite, no singing,no passion. I fear this would become a novelty league like the "red rocket" Big Bash garbage. Thats just my opinion on the subject, after all this is a sports OPINION site :) I would much rather the second division. I have gone over the possibility of an elite league in my head, the crowds are huge…….but, its eerily quite, no singing,no passion. I fear this would become a novelty league like the “red rocket” Big Bash garbage. Thats just my opinion on the subject, after all this is a sports OPINION site :)

]]> By: gurudoright http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-273251 gurudoright Mon, 28 Dec 2009 04:56:49 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-273251 It is quite simple to have a FFA cup in the way Midfielder has stated but not to that extreme. Yes, the 12 (by the time it would be up and running)Aleague teams joined by 4 qualifers coming from a random draw playoff between the 6 state leagues or cup winners and the 2 territory's winners . This way every year there could be new teams in the cup without having the expense of having lots of teams that would burden the FFA with the cost. When people talk about the cost about flying these semi pro clubs around the country think of it this way, If a NSW super league team makes it into the main draw after its play off game it has a 1 in 3 chance of playing a local game with Newcastle, Central Coast, Sydney FC and the Rovers all under 2 hours by car. To add further to this they would have a 2 out of 3 chance of playing a team within a one hour flight if you add the 4 NSW team with Brisbane, Gold Coast, Melbourne Victory and Heart so the expense isn't that great for the 4 qualifying teams. The expense for the state league teams could come from the gates with teams sharing gates in a FFA cup. It sounds unfair to the big teams who get big crowds but what if one team draws 4 home ties all the way to the final recieving all the gates and their oppenent faced all away games to reach the final yet has received no financial gain by being drawn to play away in their 4 cup ties. This way sounds more fair Having a FFA cup could add to the FFA expenses in the short term with the set up cost but in the same sense in the long run it could also be a finanical bonus as an added product to sell when tv rights deals need to be signed. The only problem with a cup would be where would the final be played? It is quite simple to have a FFA cup in the way Midfielder has stated but not to that extreme. Yes, the 12 (by the time it would be up and running)Aleague teams joined by 4 qualifers coming from a random draw playoff between the 6 state leagues or cup winners and the 2 territory’s winners . This way every year there could be new teams in the cup without having the expense of having lots of teams that would burden the FFA with the cost. When people talk about the cost about flying these semi pro clubs around the country think of it this way, If a NSW super league team makes it into the main draw after its play off game it has a 1 in 3 chance of playing a local game with Newcastle, Central Coast, Sydney FC and the Rovers all under 2 hours by car. To add further to this they would have a 2 out of 3 chance of playing a team within a one hour flight if you add the 4 NSW team with Brisbane, Gold Coast, Melbourne Victory and Heart so the expense isn’t that great for the 4 qualifying teams.

The expense for the state league teams could come from the gates with teams sharing gates in a FFA cup. It sounds unfair to the big teams who get big crowds but what if one team draws 4 home ties all the way to the final recieving all the gates and their oppenent faced all away games to reach the final yet has received no financial gain by being drawn to play away in their 4 cup ties. This way sounds more fair

Having a FFA cup could add to the FFA expenses in the short term with the set up cost but in the same sense in the long run it could also be a finanical bonus as an added product to sell when tv rights deals need to be signed.
The only problem with a cup would be where would the final be played?

]]> By: person http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-269685 person Fri, 18 Dec 2009 01:48:59 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-269685 an FFA cup could easily work but it'd be massively reliant on FFA/sponsor money. every participating club past local level would have to receive tavel subsidies. that is the only real barrier.. the subsidy would increase depending on distance travelled/stage of the competition. a certain percentage of the subsidy could be kept by the club as prize money. you'd have regional clubs playing off (i travel up t 2 hours to play my local teams so it is not a big idea) with one eventual winner from each 'region' you'd have to develop a ranking structure of every senior league in the country IT IS definately do-able if the money is there .. just have to wait for this renogotiated FOX deal. an FFA cup could easily work but it’d be massively reliant on FFA/sponsor money. every participating club past local level would have to receive tavel subsidies. that is the only real barrier.. the subsidy would increase depending on distance travelled/stage of the competition. a certain percentage of the subsidy could be kept by the club as prize money.

you’d have regional clubs playing off (i travel up t 2 hours to play my local teams so it is not a big idea) with one eventual winner from each ‘region’

you’d have to develop a ranking structure of every senior league in the country

IT IS definately do-able if the money is there .. just have to wait for this renogotiated FOX deal.

]]> By: Michael Turner http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-234285 Michael Turner Wed, 28 Oct 2009 02:52:08 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-234285 I agree with you on all accounts. I reckon the A-League should abandon the franchise model if the club doesn't want it, and just use current clubs in state leagues. Personally, there are many things the FFA have done wrong, but many have done right. The salary cap should be increased and the FFA members on the board of clubs, can knock a bid down if it endangers a club's financial security. Anyways that my view, bring on FFA Cup, or seperate A2 league with State Leaugue no P and R I agree with you on all accounts. I reckon the A-League should abandon the franchise model if the club doesn’t want it, and just use current clubs in state leagues. Personally, there are many things the FFA have done wrong, but many have done right. The salary cap should be increased and the FFA members on the board of clubs, can knock a bid down if it endangers a club’s financial security. Anyways that my view, bring on FFA Cup, or seperate A2 league with State Leaugue no P and R

]]> By: Midfielder http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-233105 Midfielder Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:49:43 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-233105 I can tell you how the FA cup will work ... this was discussed by FFA last year... the problem they have is when to start it... This year the early start of the A-League may effect when it starts .... Do you play at the end of the winter comps or the start of the following year in competition... But to how it works.... roughly 800 teams... every premier level 1 team can enter... Play offs will be home and away with teams staying local .. then regional ... then state ... then national... Weeks 1 & 2 ..... 800 to to 400 teams Weeks 3 & 4 ..... 400 teams to 140 (approx) + introduce the state teams roughly 60 Weeks 5 & 6 ....200 teams to 100 teams Weeks 6 & 7 ... 100 teams to 52 teams + introduce 12 A-League teams Weeks 8 & 9 --- 64 teams to 32 teams Weeks 10 & 11 ... 32 teams to 16 teams Weeks 12 & 13 ... 16 teams to 8 teams Weeks 14 & 15 ... 8 teams to 4 teams Week 16 & 17 ... 4 teams to 2 teams Week 18 ..... final Chief problem is .. starting when lots of issues ... like if you start at the end of the A-League season how do sides keep their teams together...if at the start of the A-League season there is no gain in weeks ... I can tell you how the FA cup will work … this was discussed by FFA last year… the problem they have is when to start it…

This year the early start of the A-League may effect when it starts ….

Do you play at the end of the winter comps or the start of the following year in competition…

But to how it works…. roughly 800 teams… every premier level 1 team can enter…

Play offs will be home and away with teams staying local .. then regional … then state … then national…

Weeks 1 & 2 ….. 800 to to 400 teams

Weeks 3 & 4 ….. 400 teams to 140 (approx) + introduce the state teams roughly 60

Weeks 5 & 6 ….200 teams to 100 teams

Weeks 6 & 7 … 100 teams to 52 teams + introduce 12 A-League teams

Weeks 8 & 9 — 64 teams to 32 teams

Weeks 10 & 11 … 32 teams to 16 teams

Weeks 12 & 13 … 16 teams to 8 teams

Weeks 14 & 15 … 8 teams to 4 teams

Week 16 & 17 … 4 teams to 2 teams

Week 18 ….. final

Chief problem is .. starting when lots of issues … like if you start at the end of the A-League season how do sides keep their teams together…if at the start of the A-League season there is no gain in weeks …

]]> By: Timmuh http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-233075 Timmuh Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:12:58 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-233075 The early regions don't have to be as big as a state. And there would be clubs who don't wish to participate, and others for who any set up would be impossible due to distance. The point would be to make it as inclusive as possible. That might mean starting with five or six regions in Queensland for example. Its quite possibly still not viable. Or may be just not viable to include country areas, NT or Tasmania. There is also another big difference between Australia and other nations. In, for example, England people follow their club. If they follow Woking they don't also follow West Ham; they certainly watch EPL but their heart is with their club. Australian soccer would be expecting people to follow both Melbourne Heart (such a bad name, hopefully they won't actually use it) and South Melbourne, and then put them up against each other ... it is perhaps not such a great move to force people to choose between clubs like that. The early regions don’t have to be as big as a state. And there would be clubs who don’t wish to participate, and others for who any set up would be impossible due to distance. The point would be to make it as inclusive as possible. That might mean starting with five or six regions in Queensland for example.
Its quite possibly still not viable. Or may be just not viable to include country areas, NT or Tasmania.

There is also another big difference between Australia and other nations. In, for example, England people follow their club. If they follow Woking they don’t also follow West Ham; they certainly watch EPL but their heart is with their club. Australian soccer would be expecting people to follow both Melbourne Heart (such a bad name, hopefully they won’t actually use it) and South Melbourne, and then put them up against each other … it is perhaps not such a great move to force people to choose between clubs like that.

]]> By: M1tch http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-233014 M1tch Mon, 26 Oct 2009 08:44:10 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-233014 Rovers will do okay I think, especially if they are based at Parra stadium Gold Coast would now kill to be linked with the Titans, they can thank Palmer for that, Searle wanted a buddy partnership to Rovers will do okay I think, especially if they are based at Parra stadium

Gold Coast would now kill to be linked with the Titans, they can thank Palmer for that, Searle wanted a buddy partnership to

]]> By: Freud of Football http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232994 Freud of Football Mon, 26 Oct 2009 08:18:03 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232994 An FA cup has the same problems without the promotion-relegation of state teams. Australian clubs in the state-leagues simply couldn't finance a cup run. An FA cup has the same problems without the promotion-relegation of state teams. Australian clubs in the state-leagues simply couldn’t finance a cup run.

]]> By: megatron http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232982 megatron Mon, 26 Oct 2009 07:56:01 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232982 Well an FA Cup would avoid these problems at least. Well an FA Cup would avoid these problems at least.

]]> By: Freud of Football http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232976 Freud of Football Mon, 26 Oct 2009 07:47:34 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232976 I hate to piss on your parade but this isn't feasible either. So one season, a 14th club from one of the state leagues gets promoted? Their squad would never be able to cope with the rigours of the A-League and the FFA would have to plough too much money into one club per season to make them the least bit competitive and as we've seen too often, you can't just buy players and expect them to be a team. Then what happens after season one? Does this promoted team stay up or do we go through the whole shennanigans again and another state team comes up into the 14th spot? What if the other state-team doesn't finish last but heaven forbid mid-table, do we still relegate them to be "fair" to the system or do we relegate the last placed team, some established A-League franchise? Both are massive conundrums which look unsolvable at first glance. So in the case they are automatically relegated, this team goes back to the state-league with players they could never afford and a huge financial advantage from the previous season, that is if they haven't blown it all on wages. I think this would tear these promoted teams apart, they'd hit the earth with a massive thud as the finances are pulled and crowds dwindle when they go back into their state-league. I hate to piss on your parade but this isn’t feasible either.

So one season, a 14th club from one of the state leagues gets promoted? Their squad would never be able to cope with the rigours of the A-League and the FFA would have to plough too much money into one club per season to make them the least bit competitive and as we’ve seen too often, you can’t just buy players and expect them to be a team.

Then what happens after season one? Does this promoted team stay up or do we go through the whole shennanigans again and another state team comes up into the 14th spot? What if the other state-team doesn’t finish last but heaven forbid mid-table, do we still relegate them to be “fair” to the system or do we relegate the last placed team, some established A-League franchise? Both are massive conundrums which look unsolvable at first glance.

So in the case they are automatically relegated, this team goes back to the state-league with players they could never afford and a huge financial advantage from the previous season, that is if they haven’t blown it all on wages.

I think this would tear these promoted teams apart, they’d hit the earth with a massive thud as the finances are pulled and crowds dwindle when they go back into their state-league.

]]> By: megatron http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232974 megatron Mon, 26 Oct 2009 07:40:16 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232974 I still think Lowy knows that the A2 League is impossible and it's all talk to help convince Fifa, afc etc that it could happen one day. I also think the reason an Fa Cup hasn't happened is cause of the fear of bringing in the ethnic clubs into the new football setup. Sad really. I still think Lowy knows that the A2 League is impossible and it’s all talk to help convince Fifa, afc etc that it could happen one day.

I also think the reason an Fa Cup hasn’t happened is cause of the fear of bringing in the ethnic clubs into the new football setup. Sad really.

]]> By: NUFCMVFC http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232960 NUFCMVFC Mon, 26 Oct 2009 06:58:17 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232960 Good article, a 2nd division won't work for some time, unless you somewhat re-engage all the "old Soccer" people bit I don't think Frank would want to do that FFA Cup is needed more IMO, better way to re-engage and something the community wants more, plus a way to engage and bridge the strength of football in this country, which is at grassroots level One wonders if this is just to tick a box on the AFC pro League committees checklist for ACL spots, it isn't worth cripplingly over extending ourselves and there is a need for pragmatism, or if this is all talk to show we were serious, but then say ti wasn't practical? Good article, a 2nd division won’t work for some time, unless you somewhat re-engage all the “old Soccer” people bit I don’t think Frank would want to do that

FFA Cup is needed more IMO, better way to re-engage and something the community wants more, plus a way to engage and bridge the strength of football in this country, which is at grassroots level

One wonders if this is just to tick a box on the AFC pro League committees checklist for ACL spots, it isn’t worth cripplingly over extending ourselves and there is a need for pragmatism, or if this is all talk to show we were serious, but then say ti wasn’t practical?

]]> By: AndyRoo http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232949 AndyRoo Mon, 26 Oct 2009 06:28:47 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232949 I could actually imagine that happening with Rovers because they are in West Sydney where there a few teams to work with and there probably more receptive to such an idea because they feel their rivals are the other NRL clubs rather than a summer football team. Storm, MV and the Rebels could also do something similar. In the regional markets I could understand the Rugby league boys not feeling the urge to cooperate with a new competitor, which is fair enough. I could actually imagine that happening with Rovers because they are in West Sydney where there a few teams to work with and there probably more receptive to such an idea because they feel their rivals are the other NRL clubs rather than a summer football team. Storm, MV and the Rebels could also do something similar.

In the regional markets I could understand the Rugby league boys not feeling the urge to cooperate with a new competitor, which is fair enough.

]]> By: megatron http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232945 megatron Mon, 26 Oct 2009 06:24:44 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232945 Makes sense, especially in that market, Gold Coast seem to have been too arrogant to work with other clubs in their market Makes sense, especially in that market, Gold Coast seem to have been too arrogant to work with other clubs in their market

]]> By: megatron http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232941 megatron Mon, 26 Oct 2009 06:22:05 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232941 Teffers that is actually a brilliant idea. It protects the A-League clubs and gives the state league clubs something to aspire to will adding a new ingredient to each new season. Teffers that is actually a brilliant idea. It protects the A-League clubs and gives the state league clubs something to aspire to will adding a new ingredient to each new season.

]]> By: Dom http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232863 Dom Mon, 26 Oct 2009 04:38:54 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232863 Thats a really good idea. The winner could have a place in the AFC champions league the following season. Or that AFC cup thing they are trying to model on the Uefa cup Thats a really good idea. The winner could have a place in the AFC champions league the following season. Or that AFC cup thing they are trying to model on the Uefa cup

]]> By: Dogs Of War http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232396 Dogs Of War Sun, 25 Oct 2009 11:59:04 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232396 Some A-League clubs have gone about recruiting supporters the wrong way. Given that A-League crossover into the AFL/NRL seasons is small, they should be actively targeting that support to also attend A-League games. Maybe even get a deal where if you are a member of let's say the North Queensland Cowboys you get a discount (offered via the NRL club). As well as creating areas in the club supporter forums for AFL/NRL talk. Some A-League clubs have gone about recruiting supporters the wrong way. Given that A-League crossover into the AFL/NRL seasons is small, they should be actively targeting that support to also attend A-League games. Maybe even get a deal where if you are a member of let’s say the North Queensland Cowboys you get a discount (offered via the NRL club). As well as creating areas in the club supporter forums for AFL/NRL talk.

]]> By: constantine http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232390 constantine Sun, 25 Oct 2009 11:50:45 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232390 true, asian is a trumpcard. true, asian is a trumpcard.

]]> By: Pippinu http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232346 Pippinu Sun, 25 Oct 2009 10:35:06 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232346 Joe Wogs are allowed to use the word. You're right - I reckon it's a huge attraction - but does the FFA agree?? Joe
Wogs are allowed to use the word.

You’re right – I reckon it’s a huge attraction – but does the FFA agree??

]]> By: Joe FC http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232342 Joe FC Sun, 25 Oct 2009 10:29:15 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232342 Teffers you definately get the prize for lateral thinking. Pippinu as for letting the wogs back in (you certainly do call a spade a spade) that would have to be the attraction of a cup competition; Marconi v Sydney FC, Melbourne Knights v Melbourne Victory. No lack of interest in those matches. Teffers you definately get the prize for lateral thinking. Pippinu as for letting the wogs back in (you certainly do call a spade a spade) that would have to be the attraction of a cup competition; Marconi v Sydney FC, Melbourne Knights v Melbourne Victory. No lack of interest in those matches.

]]> By: Pippinu http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232319 Pippinu Sun, 25 Oct 2009 09:30:41 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232319 Westy Re NZ and an FFA cup - it's one of those finer details that I don't think anyone has given any attention to. My gut feel is that it would be an Australian club only comp (with the inclusion of the Nix of course - who would be hoping to meet GCU sometime soon). Westy
Re NZ and an FFA cup – it’s one of those finer details that I don’t think anyone has given any attention to.

My gut feel is that it would be an Australian club only comp (with the inclusion of the Nix of course – who would be hoping to meet GCU sometime soon).

]]> By: Westy http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232318 Westy Sun, 25 Oct 2009 09:28:46 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232318 i lik Teffers idea of 13 teams plus a guest. I can see myself supporting that. But with the FFA cup, would we include teams from New Zealand, seeing how wellington participates in the A-league? i lik Teffers idea of 13 teams plus a guest. I can see myself supporting that.

But with the FFA cup, would we include teams from New Zealand, seeing how wellington participates in the A-league?

]]> By: Pippinu http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232308 Pippinu Sun, 25 Oct 2009 09:11:36 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232308 Teffers that's not a bad model (quite workable and relatively cheap). I could imagine a fair bit of interest in the end of season play offs. Four comments: 1. There's a mismatch in timing of the respective seasons. 2. This is actually not too different to the old NSL model. 3. Speaking of the NSL - will FFA be ready to let the wogs back in? 4. Are we ready to go for one, two, three maybe ten years without a major city being represented in the A-League (because that's what might happen). For instance, anyone of Perth, Adelaide or Brisbane go out - and who knows when they will be back again - if ever. Teffers
that’s not a bad model (quite workable and relatively cheap). I could imagine a fair bit of interest in the end of season play offs.

Four comments:

1. There’s a mismatch in timing of the respective seasons.
2. This is actually not too different to the old NSL model.
3. Speaking of the NSL – will FFA be ready to let the wogs back in?
4. Are we ready to go for one, two, three maybe ten years without a major city being represented in the A-League (because that’s what might happen). For instance, anyone of Perth, Adelaide or Brisbane go out – and who knows when they will be back again – if ever.

]]> By: Teffers http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232305 Teffers Sun, 25 Oct 2009 09:02:58 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232305 How about this as a compromise, it isn't perfect but may suit as a fill in, because we all know that a second division is a long way away, and that the FFA Cup doesn't look any closer; So: The A- League expands to 13 teams (I don't believe there are 14 teams in this country as yet) and have the 14th place allocated to promotion or "guest" spot if you will. At the end of the states season all state champions could play in a knockout cup where the winner becomes the 14th team. They will receive a cash payout from the FFA to make them more competitive. At the end of the season they are put back into the knockout round to fight for the 14th place. This will technically give the A-League promotion and relegation as well as making the state leagues a giant second division. This should make the AFC and FIFA happy as well give the state leagues recognition and an added incentive to win their respective comps. Plus it will remove the "boredom" of playing the same teams over and again. Of course there are some issues such as the cashed up promoted team will have an unfair advantage over the other state teams, home grounds and what if the promoted team wins the league? It isn't meant to be a permanent solution, just something to fill in the gap between now and the second division. How about this as a compromise, it isn’t perfect but may suit as a fill in, because we all know that a second division is a long way away, and that the FFA Cup doesn’t look any closer; So:

The A- League expands to 13 teams (I don’t believe there are 14 teams in this country as yet) and have the 14th place allocated to promotion or “guest” spot if you will. At the end of the states season all state champions could play in a knockout cup where the winner becomes the 14th team. They will receive a cash payout from the FFA to make them more competitive. At the end of the season they are put back into the knockout round to fight for the 14th place.

This will technically give the A-League promotion and relegation as well as making the state leagues a giant second division. This should make the AFC and FIFA happy as well give the state leagues recognition and an added incentive to win their respective comps. Plus it will remove the “boredom” of playing the same teams over and again.

Of course there are some issues such as the cashed up promoted team will have an unfair advantage over the other state teams, home grounds and what if the promoted team wins the league? It isn’t meant to be a permanent solution, just something to fill in the gap between now and the second division.

]]> By: Michael http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232294 Michael Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:20:07 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232294 No, we can't sustain a second division at the moment. We only have 10 clubs (2 more on the way). There is no point of having a second division at the moment. Because we don't have the teams for a second division, and it simply does not make sense in a footballing way at the moment, there is no point even considering it. Once the league has 16-20 teams in it, then we can start talking about second divisions. Once it has that many teams, then we can have a look at how many fans are going to matches, and how financially viable the clubs are. The league only new. To introduce a second division in the foreseeable future would be akin to giving a toddler a car to drive. A recipe for disaster. No, we can’t sustain a second division at the moment. We only have 10 clubs (2 more on the way). There is no point of having a second division at the moment.

Because we don’t have the teams for a second division, and it simply does not make sense in a footballing way at the moment, there is no point even considering it.

Once the league has 16-20 teams in it, then we can start talking about second divisions. Once it has that many teams, then we can have a look at how many fans are going to matches, and how financially viable the clubs are.

The league only new. To introduce a second division in the foreseeable future would be akin to giving a toddler a car to drive. A recipe for disaster.

]]> By: AndyRoo http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232211 AndyRoo Sun, 25 Oct 2009 06:27:23 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232211 In the AFC documentation for the current comps you can get the points for having P&R towards ACL spots by showing commitment to P&R rather than actually having to have it implemented. I am hopinf this is Lowy saying all the right things to get us the 3rd spot in the ACL which is given out at the end of november. If we keep developing our comp and the teams that go to Asia have a positive influence (e.g. when Sydney FC played Urawa they took away fans) then our spots will become entrenched and we might never have to commit financial suicide that is P&R. It's going to be a real battle to get even a third spot because it will have to be China or Korea that it will come from. Indonesia and Thailand have all made big strides and are pressuring for more spots so the AFC wont be reducing the 2 playoff spots that is for sure. In the AFC documentation for the current comps you can get the points for having P&R towards ACL spots by showing commitment to P&R rather than actually having to have it implemented. I am hopinf this is Lowy saying all the right things to get us the 3rd spot in the ACL which is given out at the end of november.

If we keep developing our comp and the teams that go to Asia have a positive influence (e.g. when Sydney FC played Urawa they took away fans) then our spots will become entrenched and we might never have to commit financial suicide that is P&R.

It’s going to be a real battle to get even a third spot because it will have to be China or Korea that it will come from. Indonesia and Thailand have all made big strides and are pressuring for more spots so the AFC wont be reducing the 2 playoff spots that is for sure.

]]> By: Freud of Football http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232207 Freud of Football Sun, 25 Oct 2009 06:22:45 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232207 This wouldn't help a lot. Consider the distances the regional teams will have to travel, yes if it is state based then it won't be as far but we're still talking about hundreds of kilometres and these will be amateur footballers, not pro's who are paid for it. This wouldn’t help a lot. Consider the distances the regional teams will have to travel, yes if it is state based then it won’t be as far but we’re still talking about hundreds of kilometres and these will be amateur footballers, not pro’s who are paid for it.

]]> By: Joe FC http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232184 Joe FC Sun, 25 Oct 2009 06:01:46 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232184 Fair enough Adrian but your comments are hardly breaking news. The FFA and everybody else who matters have and will continue to give plenty of thought to an FA cup and 2nd tier competition. Frank Lowy is just like the rest of us, what we say in public is not necessarily what we think in private. How 'fragile' the code currently is depends upon perspective and perception. It certainly has its shortcoming and weaknesses but is also not without hope and promise. We don't need to think about throwing the towel in just yet. Fair enough Adrian but your comments are hardly breaking news. The FFA and everybody else who matters have and will continue to give plenty of thought to an FA cup and 2nd tier competition. Frank Lowy is just like the rest of us, what we say in public is not necessarily what we think in private. How ‘fragile’ the code currently is depends upon perspective and perception. It certainly has its shortcoming and weaknesses but is also not without hope and promise. We don’t need to think about throwing the towel in just yet.

]]> By: Griffo http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232179 Griffo Sun, 25 Oct 2009 05:48:06 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232179 I don't think the code war is so solely about poaching fans from one game to another, but about the advertising dollar. Media coverage is based on advertising space and right now the other codes have a lot too lose and football so much to gain: compare, say, League coverage in most papers compared to A-League (I think there was an article on SBS:TWG site about this). More advertising dollar to the editors, more A-League coverage. The next TV deal also a case in point at the growth potential of advertisement for the game. Football also has an ace up its sleave: Asian advertising sponsorship - when A-League clubs start taking their asian presence seriously, they and the game will get greater exposure here and abroad with extra advertising funding. Australia is a saturated sporting market, and culturally love their sport, so while I don't think other codes will die as such, there is room for presence of another code in their mindset, funded by advertising sponsorship of football. I don’t think the code war is so solely about poaching fans from one game to another, but about the advertising dollar. Media coverage is based on advertising space and right now the other codes have a lot too lose and football so much to gain: compare, say, League coverage in most papers compared to A-League (I think there was an article on SBS:TWG site about this). More advertising dollar to the editors, more A-League coverage. The next TV deal also a case in point at the growth potential of advertisement for the game. Football also has an ace up its sleave: Asian advertising sponsorship – when A-League clubs start taking their asian presence seriously, they and the game will get greater exposure here and abroad with extra advertising funding.

Australia is a saturated sporting market, and culturally love their sport, so while I don’t think other codes will die as such, there is room for presence of another code in their mindset, funded by advertising sponsorship of football.

]]> By: megatron http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/25/forget-the-second-division-create-the-ffa-cup/#comment-232175 megatron Sun, 25 Oct 2009 05:37:59 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=24656#comment-232175 It could be state based in the early rounds so teams won't have to travel, then expand at the later rounds. It could be state based in the early rounds so teams won’t have to travel, then expand at the later rounds.

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