A new Knockout Cup for the AFL?
Roar Rookie By jono52795, 26 Oct 2009 jono52795 is a Roar Rookie
- Tagged:
- AFL, AFL state of origin, Andrew Demetriou, knockout cup
With a crucial expansion period just months away at AFL Headquarters, it is never too early to think of the future, and just what the future may hold. And is that future a brand new knockout cup, running parallel to the Premiership Season?
Forget State of Origin. Most footy fans seem to cling to a fantasy that State Vs State football is a special form of the game, with only the superstars going head to head.
In reality, State of Origin does not suit the AFL. It is best to have only a Victoria V South Australia V West Australia “Tri-State Cup” competition played once every 4 years only.
With 18 clubs in the competition by 2013, and 20 (according to Andrew Demetriou) by around 2020… it hardly seems likely there will be 20 teams competing for the one cup, year in and year out? I would think not.
Below is a summary of what I believe the future holds for the biggest game on the continent:
1) AFL Premiership
With 20 teams competing, the season should be cut to 19 rounds of regular season football, along with a top 10 Finals Series. Simple enough, and very fair!
2) Coca Cola Cup
For the purpose of this article, we will assume that a multi-million dollar corporation will sponsor a brand new AFL competition, with huge prize money and media/profit generation exceeding that of the regular comp.
I reckon a “Championship of Australia” format should be adopted, which would pin all 20 AFL Clubs, along with 12 of the best State League clubs from the SANFL, WAFL, VFL and possibly a NT or NZ or ACT representative team, dependant on who did NOT receive that coveted 20th license in the AFL Premiership.
Similar to the World Cup of Soccer, this competition is simply 8 groups of 4 teams, followed by a “round of 16 knockout” phase, and then Quarter Finals, Semi Finals and the Final.
Not only would this new knockout competition be a huge boost to our hard working state league clubs, but opportunities like incorporating the 9 point super goal, matches played in both regional/metropolitan venues and giving a new dimension to our game would be beneficiary to all involved.
So there you have it… a new dimension to our great game, and goodness knows we will need it with 20 clubs in the most popular league in the country.
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- AFL, AFL state of origin, Andrew Demetriou, knockout cup
October 26th 2009 @ 7:39am
Redb said | October 26th 2009 @ 7:39am | Report comment
I’d prefer to have State of Origin back and reckon it will be. Start with Vic v SA.
However, its always good to look at new ideas, I guess in away the NAB Cup is already very similiar to a short knock out comp like the one you propose here. However with all due respect, bringing in teams from the WAFL, SANFL, etc wouldnt work as the they would get smashed every time.
For a 20 team comp – agree with 19 round H & A season with a finals format, or a conference set up.
Redb
October 26th 2009 @ 10:46am
James said | October 26th 2009 @ 10:46am | Report comment
Agree whith the SANFL/WAFL comment. In soccer, when 90 mins can pass without a goal, and a simple penalty can decide a game…its always possible for a crap team to cause an upset. But in footy, the crap teams would be found out everytime.
October 26th 2009 @ 8:00pm
Timmuh said | October 26th 2009 @ 8:00pm | Report comment
That is the problem, the massive gap between the AFL and SANFL (clearly the 2nd best comp). Combined sides from the SANFL and WAFL could be competitive, even without AFL listed players, but not the individual clubs and not other state leagues.
Any knockout cup like that would need to have a qualifying phase, and would be unlikely to be talen seriously by AFL clubs anyway – the Premiership is too important to risk top players in a knockout format. Especially if you get to round two and your league opposition next week doesn’t. Why risk the best players in a secondary comp?
I’d love to see Origin return, but even that could only happen in the post-season or the clubs would hold their players back (a la Malthouse decimating WA claiming niggling injuries when coaching the Eagles in the 90s). And even in post-season, the clubs send players off to surgery to have them ready for pre-season training.
October 26th 2009 @ 7:45am
Pippinu said | October 26th 2009 @ 7:45am | Report comment
The gap between the AFL and the next tier is massive – so no chance of that type of cup format – not suited to aussie rules.
The only problem with 19 rounds is that it means some teams will have 9 home games and others 10 – it may not mean too much in the modern age – in the Melbourne context – a membership can be sold still allowing access to 11 games – all of your team’s home games, and then a selection of away games.
October 26th 2009 @ 7:50am
Firestarter Bob said | October 26th 2009 @ 7:50am | Report comment
No one is going to sponsor a competition between professionals against teams made up of brickies, bank clerks and stop/go men.
October 26th 2009 @ 7:53am
Pippinu said | October 26th 2009 @ 7:53am | Report comment
I think that’s right.
Although interestingly, absolutely no one wants the pre-season cup, but the AFL persists with it because sponsors want to throw truck loads of money at it.
October 26th 2009 @ 7:58am
Redb said | October 26th 2009 @ 7:58am | Report comment
NAB Cup is good becuase it takes the game to all parts of Australia from smaller towns in Western Australia like Albany in the heartland to nurturing robust locals comps like in Cairns outside the games traditional sphere of influence. They get about 8,000 to the Cairns NAB Cup match each year.
October 26th 2009 @ 7:59am
LT80 said | October 26th 2009 @ 7:59am | Report comment
The Cup is a great idea, I’d love to see it. Yes the lower tier sides will probably get beaten soundly. But even if they all go out in the first round, who cares? It’s not like you don’t see thrashings from time to time during the normal season anyway. There might even be one or two upsets.
October 26th 2009 @ 8:09am
Freud of Football said | October 26th 2009 @ 8:09am | Report comment
“But even if they all go out in the first round, who cares?” – what’s the point of having the cup then? An extra piece of silverware that will only be competed for by AFL teams where all the others are just there to make up the numbers?
October 26th 2009 @ 8:20am
LT80 said | October 26th 2009 @ 8:20am | Report comment
It is what it is. A knock-out comp with AFL and state league clubs. We don’t know if any lower sides could be competitive because it doesn’t happen. Anyone can speculate. What’s the point of the NAB Cup?
October 26th 2009 @ 8:52am
Pippinu said | October 26th 2009 @ 8:52am | Report comment
LT
Aussie rules is different to soccer, where a 3rd tier team will give itself some hope of at least being competitive against a first tier team.
In aussie rules, the gaps in quality are brutally exposed – you’d end up with 30+ goal margins – it wouldn’t be the least bit interesting to anyone – it would be a bit like watching the All Blacks dismantle Japan 100-zip.
October 26th 2009 @ 9:24am
AndyRoo said | October 26th 2009 @ 9:24am | Report comment
There was a rugby league version (the Anco cup) in Australia that wasn’t that bad when there wasn’t a huge disparity between what you got paid in the bush and what you could get in the city.
They couldn’t run that competition now as the money gap is just too huge. I would think the AFL would be even worse, looking at my local AFL team they have a few rough nuts with a lot of tats but would get blown apart skill wise. I think their only chance to be competitive would be to “go hard” which would create a lot of issues.
If AFL clubs were getting their players bashed up or involved with melees with amateur players it would be bad all round.
I am not even sold on the idea of a cup in Football. Sth Melbourne vs Victory sounds like something that should be a pre season friendly. I know the FA Cup works because of tradition (and the fact they have 4 to 5 divisions of professional football) but who are these people that want too see a bucket load of one sided matches so they can eventually see a big upset once in a while. Sounds like a lot of effort and expence to organise one sided and lower quality football
October 26th 2009 @ 9:29am
LT80 said | October 26th 2009 @ 9:29am | Report comment
I reckon some Queensland Cup sides would have been competitive against Cronulla or Easts this year.
October 26th 2009 @ 9:29am
Pippinu said | October 26th 2009 @ 9:29am | Report comment
AndyRoo
whenever the Victory meets South Melbourne in a pre-season game – it’s never friendly!!
(and if you like flares, that’s the place to be)
October 26th 2009 @ 9:32am
AndyRoo said | October 26th 2009 @ 9:32am | Report comment
Cronulla and Easts…I was only talking about the 14 professional NRL clubs boom boom.
Newtown and Bears plus the QLD Cup sides…I think it has more legs in Rugby league but they allready play a lot of games.
October 26th 2009 @ 9:32am
Pippinu said | October 26th 2009 @ 9:32am | Report comment
LT80
I think the NRL is pretty much the same that the standard at the elite level continues to draw away from the rest with each passing year.
I don’t know enough about the next level of League to comment too much, but I suspect there’s a growing gap there as well.
October 26th 2009 @ 9:45am
LT80 said | October 26th 2009 @ 9:45am | Report comment
haha easy there Andy, one of those is my club chief! Newtown are pretty keen to raise the standard of the NSW Cup which is great, and apparently there is talk of a Cup comp with CRL and NSW Cup sides running next year.
Pip, the standard in the NSW Cup and Qld Cup is high. It is unfortunate that some in the media denigrate it as park footy etc, because it’s not. Many of the players would not necessarily be out of place in an NRL side.
October 26th 2009 @ 9:59am
Pippinu said | October 26th 2009 @ 9:59am | Report comment
LT
my comment was less about those competitions and more about the standard of NRL, which is at an all time high, and will continue to grow – it’s very hard for the next tier to keep up with that rate of improvem ent – it’s quite natural that a gap emerges in those circumstances – once it’s there, it’s very, very hard to bridge it.
October 26th 2009 @ 10:06am
Dogs Of War said | October 26th 2009 @ 10:06am | Report comment
A good comparision would be the Bulldogs reserve grade team, which over 50% of the guys where in the NRL top side last year that ran last. They won the NSW cup quite easily, dominating the competition throughout the year. Yet in the NRL most of those guys just didn’t cut the mustard. I would hate to see what would happen to a reserve grade team that wasn’t up to that level at all.
October 26th 2009 @ 10:34am
LT80 said | October 26th 2009 @ 10:34am | Report comment
DoW, sure Bankstown won the comp. They won 15 out of 20 games during the season but it’s not like they were putting 50+ points on sides every week.
Of course second tier sides are not going to be up to the same standard as first grade sides, but I don’t think the difference is a great as some people think. I think the sport needs a strong second tier, and it should be promoted.
October 26th 2009 @ 10:48am
Michael C said | October 26th 2009 @ 10:48am | Report comment
and Aust Footy is far, far less forgiving of a gap in talent than the more defensively geared (ruled/structured) codes,
but, if we exclude the AFL, then, get back to the ‘Premiers Cup’ style format that was around some time back (in the 80′s Joan Kirner??) – - with the premier team from a variety of country and metro leagues going up against each other in a round robin of knock out tournament.
But, unlike Country Week cricket where you can play the games over the period of a week, Aust Footy day in day out is a big ask….but, I remember intervarsity playing M, Tu and W and the day off on Thurs and the final on the Friday.
October 26th 2009 @ 3:43pm
Pippinu said | October 26th 2009 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
I remember intervarsity as well – I think we didn’t feel it because we were all permanently pissed!!
October 27th 2009 @ 12:42pm
ren said | October 27th 2009 @ 12:42pm | Report comment
things are still much the same
October 27th 2009 @ 12:48pm
Pippinu said | October 27th 2009 @ 12:48pm | Report comment
That doesn’t surprise me.
Of course, kids, please do not do this at home – we are in no way condoning the use of alcohol in dulling the pain of bruised, sore muscles.
October 26th 2009 @ 8:06am
Freud of Football said | October 26th 2009 @ 8:06am | Report comment
Rubbish. Jono, have you any idea about AFL?
Pip’s point is 100% correct, the void in quality between the AFL and anything else is huge and for that reason alone (I won’t mention the absurdity of scheduling, financing etc etc etc) your theory doesn’t float and you have obviously never seen AFL State-of-Origin or been to a game.
Bring it back NOW. It’s by far the best footy I have ever seen, SA – Vic games, the lineups were proverbial dream teams, Dunstall & Ablett – Carey & Kernaghan in your forward lines anyone? Midfields packed with the best players the game had to offer. With the league being extended and possibly 19 rounds, a round-robin state-of-origin tournament could fit nicely into the schedule.
Hold it over various weekends and keep the old teams (Vic, SA, WA and The All-Stars), these games will draw huge crowds and even larger TV-Revenues (something the AFL will need to concern themselves with if the season possibly gets cut back by 3 rounds).
October 26th 2009 @ 8:24am
albatross said | October 26th 2009 @ 8:24am | Report comment
>> a NT or NZ or ACT representative team
You mean “representative” as in “Force”, “Brumbies” etc?
October 26th 2009 @ 8:33am
Michael C said | October 26th 2009 @ 8:33am | Report comment
re the gap issue b/w AFL and the next tier,
Paul Roos on SEN this morning spoke about how the gap b/w the TAC u18s and AFL has never been so great and the old U19s/ressies was far more nurturing/forgiving of young men working thru their finals years of secondary school etc. (he mentioned how so many are carrying injuries and just too tired and can’t recover…they’re too busy at that critical age).
(a case for the TOyota U20 comp in the NRL perhaps).
At any rate, we are very often finding the best kids walking straight in, are coming instead from the SANFL, or WAFL.
Perhaps such a tournament could work best as an Olympic soccer clone…..mostly Under 23s. (a bit like the cricket ‘futures’ matches they play now – - – hmm, playing ‘futures’ matches now??!?! sounds like time travel has been unlocked.).
October 26th 2009 @ 8:48am
Pippinu said | October 26th 2009 @ 8:48am | Report comment
Once the kids are drafted, they mostly get a year or two to play state comps (VFL, SANFL, WAFL, etc) – so in a way, that’s doing the bridging.
October 26th 2009 @ 10:05am
Redb said | October 26th 2009 @ 10:05am | Report comment
MC,
yeah i heard that as well. Roos doesn’t mind dropping these little bombshells they are not always accurate across the board, but as Hudson said if Roos feels strongly enough take the issue to the AFL.
Redb
October 26th 2009 @ 8:51am
Dom said | October 26th 2009 @ 8:51am | Report comment
dude that is the most blatant copy of the FFA’s idea for a cup. It wont work in AFL because the gap between AFL and state league is huge where as in football a lot of the state league clubs are previously NSL clubs
October 26th 2009 @ 8:55am
Pippinu said | October 26th 2009 @ 8:55am | Report comment
Well, it’s a copy of a long standing idea that exists right around the world.
The VFL did have something similar at a time when the SANFL and WAFL were very similar in quality (and teams from those comps often won it as well).
But the AFL has changed that completely 30 years on – but you’re right – it won’t work today.
October 26th 2009 @ 9:55am
Midfielder said | October 26th 2009 @ 9:55am | Report comment
Pip
You mentioned flares a little back… is this good enough for you may Swans V South Melbourne … in a cross code game… assume South Melbourne win… now see the flares…
October 26th 2009 @ 10:02am
Pippinu said | October 26th 2009 @ 10:02am | Report comment
Bloody hell that’s unreal!!!
the goal was a good one, but….
November 16th 2009 @ 12:21pm
Simmo said | November 16th 2009 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
futbol fans >>>>>>>> everyone else. That’s a pretty extreme clip by any standard, though.
October 26th 2009 @ 12:40pm
Searly said | October 26th 2009 @ 12:40pm | Report comment
As much as everyone always likes to romanticise about an FA Cup style clone in their own code of choice, I completely agree that it wouldn’t work in the AFL. Mind you, I still reckon Richmond would be able to find a way to lose against some club side in Round 1 on a fairly regular basis. Especially if they had to make the trip across the Nullabor to play East Perth in 40 degree weather or something. It’d be a great opportunity to have another great laugh at Richmond’s expense!
Not that any of us a short of those kinds of opportunities…..