By klestical -
October 27th 2009 @ 1:02am
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Loading ...How powerful could American rugby be?
Enough of the negative Australian rugby stories, here’s something a bit more positive: the growth of American rugby. With High School rugby growing at 15 percent in the US (where it is currently the fastest growing school sport) and College Rugby now the largest club sport in the College program, the future is bright for rugby in the States
The advent of the Olympics Rugby 7s, US rugby now has money as well as the prestige to call itself a Olympic Sport. Bigger and better athletes will become more attracted to the game.
There is also the exposure the game is now getting over there.
The recent RWC Qualifier between USA and Canada was broadcast on ESPN HD (I think this might be the first rugby game ever to be on this channel), and there is a new movie called Invictus directed by Clint Eastwood with Morgan Freeman and Matt Damon coming out in December.
I found this link which discusses the potential 1st XV of NFL players. Whilst there’s the obvious problem that none of these guys have even touched a rugby ball, it does indicate the potential athletes that could become more involved.
My favourite has to be D’abrickshaw Ferguson, written as a Loosehead Prop. He is 141kg and has a vertical leap of 80cm (think of that power come scrum time).
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(48)
Nam Turk said | October 27th 2009 @ 1:29am | Report comment
College athletics cover tons of sports. That rugby is still at the club level says a lot. It’s an excuse for big kids to wear a tacky shirt and play in the mud. Also, few of these clubs play sevens, so that code is irrelevant.
ozxile said | October 27th 2009 @ 11:56am | Report comment
Nam Turk:
Knee jerk reaction/comment at best – actually ignorant and hopelessly ill-informed.
1. USA Rugby has historically resisted making rugby into a ‘varsity’ sport. Lots of regulations that do not promote the game to start with and the list goes on…
2. The perennial national collegiate champion is U. California Berkeley – hardly big kids looking for an excuse for anything
3. The big kids play football and mostly make poor rugby players
4. Virtually every rugby player in the US plays 7s at some point in the year
5.The Olympic’s announcement has already precipitated new, more organized 7s leagues
6. Tacky shirts?
What is irrelevant besides your comment?
Working Class Rugger said | October 27th 2009 @ 2:58am | Report comment
Klestical
There is momentum growing for the game in the States. No one is kidding themselves in terms of where it stands currently but the growth is there. Currently there are over 30,000 High School kids playing Rugby and some 800 College “Clubs”. And as you have alluded to the growth rate in the High School sector is 15%. Not to mention USARugby is beginning to make real yards with the introductory program “Rookie Rugby”. This school year 130,000 kids will participate in the program that pretty impressive. Plus USARugby just recently finished a workshop where over 100 PE teacher’s representing several large schools districts in Texas attended and learned the ins and outs of the game and the “Rookie Rugby” program. Could you imagine if it caught hold in Texas. One of the USA’s most populus states.
On the College front a brief prospectus USARugby released about two months ago indicated a push toward an Elite College Championship with proper programs from 2010. With Olympic inclusion the finances and resources will become available to really grow the game far beyond its current levels. The ESPN broadcast was the first time Rugby was broadcast on ESPN’s flagship channel. It has featured on ESPN360 and ESPNU for some time now.
The future could be very bright for USARugby. And the world of Rugby may never be the same once they begin to take it seriously.
Kurt said | October 27th 2009 @ 3:17am | Report comment
Not entirely sure about the optimism displayed here but I will say one thing in rugby’s favour in the US – while the ’soccer mom’ terrified of her little boys being hurt playing sport is a factor here in the US as in Aust, there remains a large portion of the population – principally amongst African-Americans and poorer white folk – who see any sport that doesn’t involve significant risk of physical injury as not worth playing or watching. So if rugby does take off in the US I forsee a future where the sport is dominated internationally by Pacific Islanders, African Americans and not-so-clever white boys named Billy-Bob.
AndyRoo said | October 27th 2009 @ 9:06am | Report comment
I enjoyed this post way too much
Alex said | October 27th 2009 @ 6:50pm | Report comment
haha, so much like football in the UK then?
Working Class Rugger said | October 27th 2009 @ 3:30am | Report comment
Kurt
The optimism comes from knowing the facts. Consider this, prior to 2000 Rugby in the USA stagnated rather significantly. Many may still say so at the senior club level. However, the change in admin lead to a re-focus of the game growth strategy. Since the early 2000’s USARugby have been placing more emphasis on getting more and more youth into the game. And it is working. Now with the Olympics the game will have the necessary funds to really get a move on Nationally. In American sports being an Olympic event brings legitimacy. With that the move to varsity is much easier. It is happening.
The same could be said for Russia. Rugby is currently growing at roughly a completely new club a week. Overall interest in the game is growing significantly on an annual basis. The Russian Govt is committed to installing Rugby as an official School sport in the coming 12-18 months. Last weekend from all account a large and vocal crowd watched the East Division Finals 7s Tournament.
If you are the same Kurt I am thinking of you’re an AFL man. So it maybe hard to believe that Rugby is growing more and more popular internationally. But let’s not forget. Your experience’s regarding Rugby would be very Aus centric. Which happens to be an enigma. And not a good example.
Kurt said | October 27th 2009 @ 3:42am | Report comment
I’m just being realistic – I happen to be living in the US at the moment (North Carolina) and thus while coming from an AFL perspective am not adverse to the idea of seeing rugby become more popular in the US.
So when I read the claim that rugby is now the biggest club sport in the college program and I happen to live in a college sport hotspot where the big three (UNC, NC State and Duke) seem to play pretty much every sport BUT rugby, I’m a little sceptical. But I’m certainly not anti-rugby so if all of this is happening then great.
On a related note I actually went to my first college football game (Duke) on the weekend. Poured with rain, absolutely no shelter, couldn’t buy beer inside the ground, cheerleaders wore head to toe outfits and the game seemed to last about 6 hours.
Working Class Rugger said | October 27th 2009 @ 3:56am | Report comment
North Carolina probably isn’t the best place to gauge Rugby’s presence at the moment. There a huge amount of work to be done. The NCAA has been reluctant to certify Rugby. But being an Olympic sport may force its hand.
As for your first American Football experience. My question is why?. Unlike many other sports, it doesn’t get any better or interesting live.
Kurt said | October 27th 2009 @ 5:40am | Report comment
I just had this idea about experiencing some local culture. As it was I experienced boredom, discomfort and sobriety so I’ll stick to the highlights packages from now on.
San Jorge said | October 27th 2009 @ 9:59am | Report comment
Hate to say it Kurt but the simplest of google searches shows that each of those schools you named all play rugby
Kurt said | October 27th 2009 @ 9:40pm | Report comment
Really? I looked at the Athletics programme websites and none of them mention rugby, and in my travels around the various campuses I’ve never seen nor heard of rugby teams or pitches. But I stand corrected.
Redb said | October 27th 2009 @ 10:22am | Report comment
Like with any sport you need to pick a team. IMO sitting back arms crossed with an impartial view does little to engage in my experience.
anopinion said | October 27th 2009 @ 10:00am | Report comment
Kurt if you are going to sports for the weather, beer and cheerleaders then perhaps you should ask someone for some game analysis. The college football crowds are incredible, they turn up every week (crowds of 80000 plus) to watch 18-22 year olds play for free. Can any games in Australia learn from this?
a
USA rugby is on the move with youth and high school sports, however the level of coaching is so poor that these kids will grow up to play with little skill and poor strategy.
Working Class Rugger said | October 27th 2009 @ 10:38am | Report comment
Ah yes the coaching situation. Well USARugby are also trying to rectify that situation running coaching clinics more regularly and more widespread. Again the funding from the USOC will help this greatly.
ozxile said | October 27th 2009 @ 12:06pm | Report comment
Kurt:
You need to get out more. Check out http://www.usarugby.org/
North Clubs has:
14 men’s college/university teams
8 women’s college/university teams (probably actually 14)
6 high school
2 U19
10 Men’s Clubs
3 Women’s Clubs
No guarantee of quality but hardly a barren wasteland for the game.
And yes, those schools you mentioned all have clubs for men and women.
Finally, it does not have to be raining for US football to be incredibly boring. It may be better with a few drinks and a bit of sun but my very limited experience you cannot drink enough to make it good enough to go back a second time.
Kurt said | October 27th 2009 @ 9:53pm | Report comment
I was referring to sports that are official parts of the schools’ athletics programmes. But I take your point that these schools have clubs – mind you I also discovered that somewhat surprisingly NC State and UNC both have Aussie Rules clubs too, although they don’t appear to have active fixture lists.
Ian Noble said | October 27th 2009 @ 3:35am | Report comment
WCR
I see ESPN have the rights to the French Top 14 and are currently thinking about taking some of the GP games and of course they sponsor http://www.scrum.com
The more involvement they have the better as they will understand the game and sell it more widely. Certainly if you look at the take up of the game in the universities and colleges then that is a good platform as it has the future potential of access to potential future leaders of industry and politics, in addition to the very pertinant comments made by Kurt. I read that Nigel Melville is aiming to create a professional game which if it ever took off with it’s worldwide exposure could attract some interest from other social classes as mentioned by Kurt, my only concern is that they would have more than concrete between the earlobes to play.
Klestical said | October 27th 2009 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
What happens if Rugby League’s so called Professional game gets underway?
Working Class Rugger said | October 27th 2009 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
There hasn’t been any word from the USA Rugby League authorities about the propsed USNRL for quite a long time. So long that many League fans are beginning to concede that it may come to nothing.
ozxile said | October 27th 2009 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
K,
Nothing. They have been trying for years.
therealalekid said | October 27th 2009 @ 3:41am | Report comment
“On the College front a brief prospectus USARugby released about two months ago indicated a push toward an Elite College Championship with proper programs from 2010″
This is the most important development of all and it should be a priority of USARUGby. Good to here about ESPN they’ve been showing alot of interest in Rugby recently, they broadcasted college games last season and hopefully they will be involved if the new Super College League comes into fruitition.
Working Class Rugger said | October 27th 2009 @ 3:51am | Report comment
Therealalekid
From my understanding the College Super League is one of the priorities of USARugby. Which is good. Achieving success at the College level in the States directly translates to success at the professional level. Just look at both the NFL and NBA. The College game for both of these comps are huge dwarfing there professional alternative. Supposedly ESPN has been showing interest of broadcasting it. On the 7s front. There’s alot of hype at the moment around the US leg’s move to Las Vegas. And ABC are looking to broadcast another highlights show with the possibiliy of broadcasting the entire event.
Working Class Rugger said | October 27th 2009 @ 3:45am | Report comment
Ian
I am aware of a potential move toward a Professional league in the States. Not a bad move but haven’t seen anything concrete yet. Supposedly more will be revealed when USARugby release’s the vision statement in either late Nov or early Dec. If it does show up I’d like to see a few Canadian teams in that mix. It would be a good start. Thanks to the IOC’s decision the possibility of it getting up has probably improved greatly.
ESPN has the rights to the Top 14 do they. Great. Hopefully they show the games at an reasonable hour. If they could get some GP games onboard that would be great too. All they need now is Super 14 and the American public will get some real exposure to the game. I will try to find the ratings for the Eagles v Canada game on ESPN. I watched it online and although no tries were scored it was impressively physical which lead to alot of positive response’s from American poster’s on that particular site.
Ian Noble said | October 27th 2009 @ 3:57am | Report comment
WCR
I am not sure whether they have the rights for OZ but you should be able to pick it up on the internet try http://www.my2p2.eu
I read that part of Melville’s strategy is to pick up some of the college players who miss out on the draft to the NFL, the fall out is enormous and most are obviously serious athletes who might enjoy the physicality of rugby. It was interesting recently one of the Cleveland Browns came over in the close season and played for Blackheath Rugby Club for a month and according to a press article not only really enjoyed the game but also the culture surrounding the game.
Working Class Rugger said | October 27th 2009 @ 4:10am | Report comment
Ian
In terms of GP and Magner’s League Setanta Sports broadcast those League in Aus. More ML than GP. But you still get something. Supposedly Setanta Ireland has the rights to the Top 14 aswell. So hopefully they show some of those games down here aswell.
I actually watched the story about the NFL player on Youtube. Yeah he really enjoyed it. And found the whole game very interesting and really loved the culture that surrounds it. Did okay from memory. Good to see.
Robbo said | October 27th 2009 @ 7:35am | Report comment
I think the biggest thing holding rugby back in the US is the NFL “bigger is better” mentality. While in the NFL every player is 6 ft and has a BMI of 30 as a minimum this isn’t the case in rugby. A 140 kg player simply isn’t going to last on a rugby field without 20 minute breaks after every single play.
aljay said | October 27th 2009 @ 8:52am | Report comment
While rugby may be the largest club sport in the college program, my understanding is the NCAA still doesn’t allow college scholarships for rugby players. If this were to change, the prospect of a free college education would dramatically increase the interest in the game at high school age.
ozxile said | October 27th 2009 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
aljay;
The NCAA has absolutely nothing to do with US Rugby. If I have enough $$ I can underwrite a team of 100 players at any school I choose. No regulation at all as long as they qualify for academic admission. They can all be foreigners as well. The only real issue is age and prior post-secondary education.
So far no one has stepped up with the money.
Working Class Rugger said | October 27th 2009 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
Oz
Rugby is a NCAA sport. There is a rule in College sports in the States that every male Collegiate sport must have a viable alternative for women. The NCAA uses Womens Rugby as it alternative for women to Gridiron. Which would explain why they are reluctant to allow the men’s game in.
As for establishing programs. The funding USARugby should be able to attain thanks to the IOC’s decision could make proper Rugby programs viable within the near future.
ozxile said | October 28th 2009 @ 6:23am | Report comment
WCR,
Fair enough, but 5 NCAA programs in different divisions does not mean much. There is no provision to provide any particular women’s sport. I work at a Division 1 university. We just started a women’s soccer team to meet Title IX requirements. They could have taken almost anything – including rugby which already has a 33 year history here.
aljay’s point was that the NCAA does not allow scholarships. They have no control if you are not part of their system. The 5 women’s programs could probably have 30 women on scholarship if they had the $$. If there is a limit you just throw in some more on academic scholarships. You can have as many as you can pay for – with or without NCAA permission – in any sport.
Most schools cannot afford the sports they have right now. They have trouble earning a penny from so-called ‘minor’ sports, i.e., anything but football and basketball. Even football and basketball are problematic for all but the top 100 schools. Regardless, they find numerous ways to subsidize all of them so they can say they have full programs that qualify them for membership in the conferences they play football/basketball in.
Working Class Rugger said | October 28th 2009 @ 10:24am | Report comment
Oz
I never said it had a large presence, only that it was one. In was listening to US Rugby Chat on heavensgame not too long ago about Rugby and the NCAA. Interestingly enough the conclusion of USARugby using its Olympic status to fund College programs came up. Sounds like a solid option. Someone was saying being an Olympic sport in the US could open up as much as $50 million of funding annually. Which would be a good start.
ozxile said | October 28th 2009 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
WCR
That would be nice. I am the faculty advisor for our university men’s and women’s teams.. Their closest competition is 220 miles away for the women and 140 miles for the men. $$ is a huge issue.
Jez said | October 27th 2009 @ 11:54am | Report comment
Having played in the Super League comp (the top rugby competition in the US) last season I can tell you all that there is still a long way to go. One of the main reasons for this is that the due to the rules of the competition most of the teams have the key positions filled by foreigners (such as myself).
So, while there were plenty of good athletes around, and you could make an argument that having good imports lifts the overall standard and thus improves the local players, if the halfback, hooker, fly half and fullback of most teams are not from the US then it is hard to see where players are going to develop in those positions.
That said, while I was over there I did some coaching with highschool kids that had never played before and the rate of their improvement was phenomenal. Moreover, a lot of them actually started quitting football so they could play more rugby (much to their parents’ dislike). Apparently the fact that they get to actually touch the ball regularly is appealing.. Who woulda thunk it?!?
Ultimately though I’m not sure that the US fully embracing rugby would be a good thing. Can you imagine how good LeBron James would be playing in the second row? It is a truly scary thought…
ohtani's jacket said | October 27th 2009 @ 11:59am | Report comment
Here’s an article about the University of California Golden Bears, who have dominated the National Collegiate Championships since its inception in 1980:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2930194
A quote from the coach:
“”I know that at other schools [rugby] is kind of a joke and that kind of makes me mad,” Watson said. “We put all the time and energy into it. People that view rugby as a drinking sport kind of soil the game a little. We are trying to take it as serious as possible here.”
Should point out that Brigham Young University ended the Bear’s five year winning streak this year with a 25-22 victory. BYC baby!
Working Class Rugger said | October 27th 2009 @ 12:09pm | Report comment
Jez
The Rugby Superleague was an admirable attempt to provide a higher level of Rugby in the States. But I would argue that college rugby is far stronger. Just look at Cal, BYU and Life. All three could easily account for any of the current RSL teams. There is along way to go but the improvements are being made. A College Championship would be a huge step in the right direction. I actually look forward to a day when the US are able to produce a rugby athletes like an LeBron James.
Jez said | October 27th 2009 @ 6:38pm | Report comment
WCR,
While I agree with most of what you say – particularly that the future of American rugby will surely grow through the colleges, and that the whole set up would massivel benefit from proper college championship. However, your argument that college rugby is already “far stronger” than the RSL is simply not accurate.
The NY Athletic Club team narrowly lost to Cal in their first trial game of the season (Cal was 3/4 of the way through theirs) and Life did not win the RSL comp (they lost the final), even though they were allowed a dispensation to the number of foreigners who were allowed to play.
Moreover, Life University is not considered a “college” team in the American sense as most of the students are post-graduate chiropractic students.
And with regards to LeBron – I’d love to see it, but I worry that in 50 years the US could become so dominant as to turn international rugby into international basketball…
Working Class Rugger said | October 27th 2009 @ 7:07pm | Report comment
Jez
Thanks for the insight. I keep a keen eye on the happenings involving Rugby in the States. But it difficult to gauge some things from afar. I look forward to that day when athletes of the likes of LeBron James run out in an Eagles jersey. I don’t think they’ll dominate the way people think. What they will bring is a new level of athletism, which would benefit the game as a whole with everyone else working to reach the same level. They’ll be very competitive but not all dominating.
Ben J said | October 27th 2009 @ 4:41pm | Report comment
I had a look at the link and saw problems from the word go. Props as tall as Victor Matfield and locks heavier than props. But interesting nonetheless. The backline looked ok, the biggest issue being cardio fitness, no-one weighing 140 kg’s would last the distance in a test.
AndyS said | October 27th 2009 @ 4:51pm | Report comment
Probably – or they might just set a new standard. Wingers were mostly little quick guys until Jonah changed things, and forward play was a very different thing only ten years ago. The game evolves, but the one constant is that a good big man will beat a good little man even if the definition of good moves on.
Working Class Rugger said | October 27th 2009 @ 7:27pm | Report comment
It would be an interesting team to run out but some thing needs to be considered. Those huge props would have to lose a good bit of weight. American football is so structured that these guys automatically no where they need to be to make things happen and the QB has alot to do with that. In Rugby the structure is alot looser and they would have to make their own space. Which would be a far more difficult test. In regards to their speed. It in yards. Which isn’t that different but when you convert it to metres their speed is no more impressive than many professional Rugny player currently. In the end they’ll form a big forward pack likely very similar to the South Africans. And a pretty hot backline. You’d definitely have to be on your game, if not they could inflict alot of pain.
prowling panther said | October 27th 2009 @ 7:05pm | Report comment
i just dont understand their obsession in nfl. how one can watch a complete game is beyond me..
macavity said | October 28th 2009 @ 11:59am | Report comment
American Football is probably my second favorite sport (go Packers & Crimson Tide).
aside from 200 million Americans, it must be just me…..
Ian Noble said | October 27th 2009 @ 10:54pm | Report comment
WCR/Kurt
You both might be interested in this site http://www.americanrugbynews.com
It seems to give unbiased views and news on rugby as a code including League. Probably puts League into some form of context, in spite of Oikee’s continual OTT comments.
Klestical said | October 28th 2009 @ 12:22am | Report comment
there’s also http://www.rugbymag.com.
probably more US college rugby though
Working Class Rugger said | October 27th 2009 @ 10:59pm | Report comment
Ian
I visit that site regularly. And it does put everything into context. Very informative too.
Ian Noble said | October 30th 2009 @ 3:54am | Report comment
WCR
Came across this short promo om the IRB web site
http://www.irb.com/mm/Video/Tournament/0/usarugbyball_8757.wmv
Working Class Rugger said | October 30th 2009 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
Ian
I actually saw that whilst watching the Eagles vs Canada match on the 4th of July. Not bad.