By Darren Walton
October 28th 2009 @ 2:17am
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Out with the old, in with the new as Deans dumps Smith
Confirming no-one is safe from Robbie Deans’s razor-sharp axe, champion flanker George Smith was on Tuesday shunted to the bench for Australia’s Bledisloe Cup clash with New Zealand in Tokyo on Saturday.
Young gun David Pocock, considered by many a future Test captain, will start as openside flanker, opposing All Blacks skipper Richie McCaw, after Deans [...]
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(106)
mcxd said | October 28th 2009 @ 2:17am | Report comment
im more excited about this backline. Hynes and Digby seem to give it some oomph that its been missing.
Who Needs Melon said | October 28th 2009 @ 6:06am | Report comment
I feel for Smith. Pocock is getting better but Smith is at the moment still a clearly better player in my view.
cinematic said | October 28th 2009 @ 6:17am | Report comment
After being much talked up by some Roarers Pocock was invisible in Wellington. This is an appalling selection. Smith is world class, Pocock appears to me to be a journeyman.
Dean’s isn’t selecting the best, instead he’s making sure all and sundry understand he’s the big boss. The same crap played out in the AB’s when he was co-coach.
Colin N said | October 28th 2009 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
“Smith is world class, Pocock appears to me to be a journeyman.”
He’s only 21, give the lad a chance. Also, played very well in the victory over South Africa
sportym said | October 28th 2009 @ 10:17pm | Report comment
Not at the wallaby level. We need the best team on the pitch to win. Aside from the SA game he has been missing and given away some dumb penalties.
Robbo said | October 28th 2009 @ 6:25am | Report comment
Smith (and Giteau in form) is Australia’s only world class player. Dropping him is the most knee-jerk reaction I have ever seen.
Sure, blood Pocock in the Scotland game, but you need to pick the big names for the big games.
Rob said | October 28th 2009 @ 6:41am | Report comment
Slightly off track here and no names but I know a person who worked with Mitchell at The Force. He said “…he was nuts..”
I asked why would they appoint someone if that was the case and his reply was that he had conned the AB administration as well.
Deans was part of that coaching set up. Given some of the snippets we are hearing about selections in the AB 2003 campaign I wonder if Deans had a role in any of those.
I think Smith looks a bit battle weary so I hope that is the reason he’s on the bench and not what otherwise would appear to me to be an odd selection.
Brett McKay said | October 28th 2009 @ 7:30am | Report comment
I think this is a case of Smith being challenged by the coach, prove to all the critics there’s still plenty left in him…
Chris said | October 28th 2009 @ 7:59am | Report comment
Let’s hope its not permanent. Wouldn’t be the first time Deans has made an absolutely bloody stupid decision as a coach.
The Link said | October 28th 2009 @ 7:43am | Report comment
Good move, Smith goes missing against the All Blacks too often. Can’t think of a game where he had it all over Richie.
Dean Pantio said | October 28th 2009 @ 7:53am | Report comment
And you think Pocock is going to do any better? Just who went missing as flanker at Wellington?
Bay35Pablo said | October 28th 2009 @ 9:05pm | Report comment
Most of the bloody team went missing …
Robbo said | October 28th 2009 @ 7:57am | Report comment
I can’t think of a game when ANYONE had it over McCaw – least of all Pocock. If you are saying Smith is a failure because he can’t dominate McCaw then you are a bloody idiot.
Vented Relief said | October 28th 2009 @ 9:07am | Report comment
Russouw. Two out of the three games they played this year Mccaw was dominated.
stillmissit said | October 28th 2009 @ 9:45am | Report comment
Abso-bloody-lutely – Vented Relief. This Russouw is an amazing player, I thought that McCaw was a one in a generation until he turned up.
Very surprising, can we bring him to OZ on an assisted passage????
No, oh! well.
Dean Pantio said | October 28th 2009 @ 10:36am | Report comment
Perhaps you mean Heinrich Brüssow?
True – but only as a result of the disparity between the effectiveness of the packs and gameplay. In S14 how did he go?
True Tah said | October 29th 2009 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
Dean when the Cheetahs played the Crusaders, the Cheetahs won and it was largely due to Brussow…although Im not 100% if McCaw was playing.
Dean Pantio said | October 29th 2009 @ 12:48pm | Report comment
That would be the Cheetah’s that came last? The Cheetahs that managed to win two matches?
ohtani's jacket said | October 28th 2009 @ 3:15pm | Report comment
He didn’t dominate McCaw. That’s such a crock. Opensides don’t even match up to be dominated.
Vented Relief said | October 28th 2009 @ 3:33pm | Report comment
Outplayed. Shown up. Call it what you will. Brussow played better than Mccaw.
ohtani's jacket said | October 28th 2009 @ 5:59pm | Report comment
Never. Happened.
Rin said | October 28th 2009 @ 11:14am | Report comment
Robbo your memory must be extremely short, H. Brussow, totally dominated McCaw in every aspect of the the tri nations games this year…i honestly thought McCaw wasnt even playing.
Jerry said | October 28th 2009 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
Broussow’s domination of McCaw is completely overstated. He edged him slightly in turnovers.
fox said | October 28th 2009 @ 7:47am | Report comment
Smith has been a true champion of the game and a warrior for Australia for the best part of a decade. It is difficult when such a player is dropped, but it is not the first time in his career he has been sent to the sidelines. He has always fought his way back. Can he do that again? He certainly is equipped to. In my opinion what Smith offers is the ability to turn ball over and he has pretty good ball-handling skills. His defence has often been viewed as a weakness and he doesn’t give you momentum in counter-rucking. He is an out-and-out pilferer. Deans seemingly feels the need for more impact at the breakdown and in counter-rucking.
There is no doubting Pocock’s ability, but some may question whether he is “there yet”. Again some believe he was “invisible” in Wellington. Personally I think that he has the goods and this will only become evident if he is tested in the international arena. Otherwise how do you know? His form in super rugby hasd been superb. Aside from my opinion, him being invisible or “not there yet” doesn’t appear to be Deans’ opinion who replaced Smith early in the second half and left Pocock on the field. I believe Pocock being invisible is a bi-product of him doing the hard work and being in amongst the rucks and mauls. he certainly wasn’t seagulling on the wing, if that’s what is implied by the criticisms above. Smith is more easily recognisable, as he has a tendency to hang in the backline on attack and sometimes plays wider in defence as well. Perhaps Deans is looking to explore the narrower channels, which is I believe where we can target the All Blacks rather than going wide too early as has been the case in all previous encounters with them this year. Bringing in Palu and retaining Pocock to me seems like the best way to accomplish this. We need to pick and go and the AB’s with their forwards typically positioned in a wider defensive arc offer us that opportunity.
In any event, this is a match played purely for pride and God knows the last XV didn’t play very well in Wellington. If I were Deans I would be trying something different as well. It will be interesting to watch anyway. Digby and Hynes I very much prefer to Turner and Mitchell, though I would have liked to see Digby at 13 – probably he’s being blooded out on the wing with a view of bringing him in to 13 if he looks fit and Cross plays good to average (as I believe he is as a player). The backline is looking closer to what I imagine it will look like in 2011 (but Ioane at 13 and O’Connor on the wing).
Armchair-critic said | October 28th 2009 @ 8:35am | Report comment
Judging from videos on rugby.com.au i get the impression Smith new this was coming for the game in Tokyo.
I also liked the response he gave: “You won’t see me moping around the camp…I think it shows the character of a man when he is dropped to try and work your way back.”
That’s the sort of attitude i want to hear. A bit of steel and determination. Maybe this is going to rekindle the desire within Smith – only time will tell.
Either way he is “a class act” (as noted by Deans) and i have no doubt he will remain an integral part of the Wallabies through to the World Cup, even if he plays off the bench.
Pete said | October 28th 2009 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
“You won’t see me moping around the camp” – absolutely that’s the spirit of a team man
The way it is! said | October 28th 2009 @ 7:47am | Report comment
I believe that the overall selections are a good thing. Smith needs a wake up call and with him coming on late in the match will help the Wallabies get over the line with a win. He has been below his best for most of the Tri Nations by giving away too many silly penalities and when was the last time he actually made a break beyond the advantage line. He will be back but has to get back to the Smith we know but this will be unlikely due to age.
Also thank you for dropping O Connor to the bench as I’m still not a fan just yet, maybe when his about 24 years mature we will see a consistent rugby back. Overall it looks a more stable team which should be more consistent across 80 minutes. Time will tell!
Pete said | October 28th 2009 @ 1:00pm | Report comment
“Smith needs a wake up call ” , seriously ?! I think he is outstanding.
I honestly believe that since he cut his hair he appears to be less effective, and that’s not because of some Samson like quality, its because he stood out more. Now he just blends in… same reason why people a pink jersey during subbies trial games…
Hoy said | October 28th 2009 @ 8:17am | Report comment
Not a fan of Cross at all, but really not a fan of his starting. He has kept the old League run sideways thinking. I have not seen him dominate anyone, and if we are going for more punch on the wings, it won’t be helped by Cross taking up space crabbing.
I don’t think O’Connor is a fullback, I don’t rate Mitchell or Turner at the moment, and I think Adam two dads is better at 13. Which means I can’t pick a fullback from anyone they have, except maybe Hynes there, but then you can see what I think of the other wingers.
Oh to have Gerrard, or even Shepherd.
Jez said | October 28th 2009 @ 9:29am | Report comment
I agree – Ryan Cross is a passenger – his game against SA in the tri-nations was horrible. Shame Rob Horne is injured (again), though I doubt he woulda been picked anyway
Justin said | October 28th 2009 @ 6:12pm | Report comment
Tend to agree with that Hoy, although it I have to say JOC wont play that poorly again, he is a rare talent, its a pity Drongo is having him play Test football out of position…
Dean Pantio said | October 29th 2009 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
Just what position would you play him in at Test level against the second best team in the world at the moment?
ThelmaWrites said | October 29th 2009 @ 12:48am | Report comment
Or Peter Hewat who currently is fullback for London Irish.
Dean Pantio said | October 29th 2009 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
He’ll never play a Test for Australia. Anyone close to the Wallaby set up during the Connelly era can tell you why.
ThelmaWrites said | October 29th 2009 @ 10:36pm | Report comment
Lote Tuqiri is no longer with the Wallabies, there is a new coach, and time might heal wounds.
stillmissit said | October 28th 2009 @ 8:20am | Report comment
Won’t impact on the grand slam or the Bledisloe so what is so wrong about this decision?
Smith will start in all the important games on this GS – Pocock isnt there yet but is moving upwards, albeit slower than I thought he would. The only way for Pocock to take the starting role from Smith is to totally outplay McCaw and that aint never going to happen on Saturday.
Smith is still a great player and our best backrower IM not so HO.
Brett McKay said | October 28th 2009 @ 8:29am | Report comment
that’s a fair point Stillmissit…
AndyS said | October 28th 2009 @ 3:33pm | Report comment
That is how I interpret the selection. Maybe, just maybe, after ten years at the top level Smith is finding it a little harder to bounce back from top level test matches – fancy that. They have England a week later, so is it that surprising that Smith might sit out a dead rubber?
Harry said | October 28th 2009 @ 8:41am | Report comment
Pretty happy with this team. Looks somewhat like a test team should, instead of a 15 that looked as much of a development squad as the pinnacle of a nation’s rugby side throughout the year. Players like O’Conner, Turner, Cooper, Genia, Brown, Pocock, Hodgson, Alexander at tighthead, Cowan, Mumm … all of these guys were not ready for hard test match rugby (i.e. 3 Nations) and should have been playing Australia A or provincial, cept of course we don’t have either of those. Alas they had to do their learning at test match level against the two best teams in the world, and the outcome – 1 win, 5 losses, some of them quite comprehensive – really aint surprising.
As to Pocock starting over Smith, I think its a good experiment to take in what is a dead rubber match. See how Pocock and Palu go. Unless Pocock plays an out and out blinder and eclipses the best forward of the decade (McCaw, still ahead of Matfield IMO) then I’m sure Deans will swap them for the games in Europe, or maybe consider starting Smith at 8 (which was a big success in Brissy don’t forget) and leve Paul as an impact bench player – but he needs hard games to get him playng well.
I also hope for bigger and better things from Elsom and Horwill on this tour, I strongly suspect both were carrying injuries through the 3N and I’m hoping both are now ready to play at world class level, we know Elsom certainly can and saw Horwill do it last year.
But most of all … Please, No injuries. Our Wallabies are in for a hell of shock on saturday as most of them haven’t played a hard game of rugby for well over a month. The potential for breakage is huge, I will have my fingers crossed.
Ben said | October 28th 2009 @ 11:12am | Report comment
Hasnt Palu had enough chances ? Sure he looks good against Italy, but against ABs and SA he goes missing. Also will someone find the real James Horwill ? He has been useless this year.
That is rubbish about Smith not playing well against the ABs ……pretty hard to play well when you are single handedly taking on the oppostions forward pack.
Dean Pantio said | October 29th 2009 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
Agreed Ben. For someone of his build, Palu sure goes AWOL often.
True Tah said | October 29th 2009 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
Dean Palu just doesnt have the venom or the anger. 2008 the big man was unstoppable for the Waratahs, but in the Wallaby jersey he goes missing…IMO nowhere near as good as Pierre Spies as a number 8, who is just as powerful as Palu but a lot fitter and quicker.
I find a lot of the Islander boys playing for the Wallabies have that sort of mentality, with the only exception in recent years being Lote Tuqiri.
stillmissit said | October 29th 2009 @ 5:21pm | Report comment
Dean – true tah,
My view having watched him over the last few years is that he plays well against all teams except NZ. I think that, like a lot of Islander boys, he is just in awe of the All Blacks.
IMHO he should be one of the best 8’s in the world.
This is strange when you think that we had Toutai Kefu and Jim Williams who would lift against the AB’s. Hell! Kefu won us a famous test match in Ealsy’s last match.
We have a few islander boys in our club and you would think the sun shone out of Carter/McCaw and they will not support the Wallabies when we are playing the AB’s. Even when we are not playing them they are reluctant supporters.
formeropenside said | October 28th 2009 @ 8:41am | Report comment
I think Pocock is better developed as an 8 in senior rugby; he’s got good linking and running skills, and only needs to gain a few kgs to hit the modern prime weight of about 110 for a no8.
I dont think he is a better 7 than Smith, although at least he doesn’t try silly chips and grubbers like Smith does.
Rin said | October 28th 2009 @ 11:10am | Report comment
RE: Formeropenside
Have you ever seen Pocock, i think it is physically impossible for that boy to put on anymore muscle/weight, he is literally a big ball of muscle, i stood next to him the other day at a club rugby match in Perth and his calves are about the size of basketballs, he can barely walk. Unfortunately a little short for a number 8.
Terry Kidd said | October 28th 2009 @ 8:54am | Report comment
I think the Smith-Pocock selection comes down to a couple of points. Smith often does not play well against the ABs, or maybe that should be is not allowed to play well. His forte is getting into the breakdown early and getting his hands on the ball to pilfer but the ABs (as they showed in Wellington) negate his style by fierce counterrucking that drives over the top of Smith forcing him to release if he has gotten hold of the pill. The Wallabies went missing with their own counterrucking. IMHO I believe that Deans is looking for more power and drive at the breakdown for the first 50 or so minutes, don’t bother getting hands on the ball simply drive over and clear out, then when the ABs start to tire and the ferocity level drops bring on Smith to pilfer ball.
I’m willing to see how it goes if indeed that is the Deans’ thought pattern.
I’m not so sure of Cross at 13. I believe taking ACC from 13 to 15 is a backward step, but like Hoy I also can’t identify an adequate 15 from the remaining squad. I also believe that Cross will cramp whomever is outside him for room or will hog the ball when he should pass. However time will tell and I don’t believe that this team is yet the RWC run on side, although it is getting close ….. there are still issues at 10,12,13,15 and 4,5.
stu said | October 28th 2009 @ 9:05am | Report comment
Cross is no my choice at 13 – AAC has been great in any position this year, but i like him at 13. I guess Cross gets the gig because neither mitchell or turner on performance deserve to be run on and there is nobody else around.
Whaler said | October 28th 2009 @ 9:10am | Report comment
Boys,
Think we all agree that changes needed to be made – if nothing is changed you will keep getting the same outcomes, which haven’t been satisfactory. I think George Smith will play at least 30 minutes in this test and will start in the rest of the tests. From there Pocock will battle with Palu for the number 8 spot. Let’s give Gits more of a chance to work with Genia……AAC will be strong at 15 and have a little more space than at 13 and O’Connor will come back in time. In comparison to Englands changes ie Martin Johnson bringing back all of his old mates from 2003 I think our changes are positive and exciting.
stuff happens said | October 28th 2009 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Forget the NH games for the moment;the Australians are desperate for a win against the AB’s.If they go to Europe with yet another loss you can imagine what this will do to their ’self esteem’.
Would you really drop George Smith under these circumstances? I mean duh! And why is Barnes not at 10?
But don’t worry, if the pack doesn’t hold up ( again!) Dunning is on the bench.
Sorry but does anyone think this lot can beat the AB’s , assuming they turn up?
Harry said | October 28th 2009 @ 9:43am | Report comment
Of course Australia can win … I don’t think this is by any means a great AB side, particularly in the forwards, players like Read, Thompson and the debut lock walked all over us in Wellington, but I don’t think they are in the same league as Shelford, Brooke etc or even Jerry Collins. We just need to harden up and focus on playing tough hard rugby.
Blinky Bill from Bellingen said | October 28th 2009 @ 11:45am | Report comment
Harry I agree that this is not a great AB side. Probably by NZ standards not even a very good AB side. Problem is they’re still beating us, so God help us when they improve. And they will improve.
Could it be that Robbie understands that our lot are unlikely to win in Tokyo and some of his selections have the ‘experimental’ excuse about them?
And what’s with Gits back at 10? I thought that was sorted out.
I’ll be screaming for the boys come game time but I’ll tell you now that IF they fail to arrive in numbers and get stuck-in at the break down, that my TV will get kicked around the lounge room until sparks fly. Someone better call the RSPCTV now.
Harry said | October 28th 2009 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
Will be watching in a pub Blinky so alcoholic relief is freely available and cursing, screaming and frustration will not cause offence to the family.
Go the Wallabies.
stuff happens said | October 28th 2009 @ 2:04pm | Report comment
Blinky: “if they fail to arrive in numbers and get stuck in at the b’down.”
Precisely.This may well decide the test.
So let’s see if a few more weeks in the gym and on the training mill with Robbie Deans has improved things including their attitude.As someone else said earlier they need to f.h.u. We’ll see.
Best wishes to your tv
ohtani's jacket said | October 28th 2009 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
Well, the Wallabies can beat the All Blacks if for no other reason than the law of averages, but right now the All Blacks know how to beat the Wallabies and it wouldn’t surprise me if they roll them again. Both sides have been tinkering a bit and it depends on who had the more effective build-up.
Whaler said | October 28th 2009 @ 9:50am | Report comment
Of course we can win “Stuff Happens” Harry is right – the boys need to muscle up ……remember the game a couple of years back when Phil Waugh and Lote ripped into Richie McCaw …..a couple of illegal hits etc BUT think this is the type of attitude the wallabies need to go in with. In that game everytime McCaw went to get the ball – Phil Waugh, fair dinkumn tried to kill him ……then LT picked him up and put him on his head ! Not ideal execution but the right intent……lets see if we can muscle up and get some mongrel in the wallabies on saturday !!!
ohtani's jacket said | October 28th 2009 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
Australia lost that game.
MarkR said | October 28th 2009 @ 10:19am | Report comment
Whaler – & what are you going to say if the Wallabies end up playing portions of the match without a player or two if they try that rubbish again ? Thuggery does not belong on the field & what tehy did in that game was disgusting.
ohtani's jacket said | October 28th 2009 @ 10:47am | Report comment
I called this earlier in the season. I’m a clever little bugger, aren’t I?
Seriously though, Australian rugby will be better for this in the long run. The Wallabies don’t have an effective backrow at the moment and Deans needs to right that.
Bay35Pablo said | October 28th 2009 @ 9:11pm | Report comment
OJ, I actually think the problem is the locks. Without them doing the hard work, we get murdered in the rucks. You don’t miss them until they ain’t there.
Rin said | October 28th 2009 @ 11:05am | Report comment
I agree with earlier comments that this is a way Deans is challenging Smith, cause he was terrible in the tri-nations this year and the following is why Pocock there is a better option:
(a) he will definately be first choice by the time WC 2011 comes around;
(b) Smith was terrible in the tri-nations this year both as a captain and his play;
(c) Pocock had one start in Brisbane against the Safa’s and was the only time in the tournament when Brussow was out played by opposing flank, and this was a massive factor in the Aus win; and
(d) Pocock will be far more suited to deal wiht McCaw then Smith.
Honeybader said | October 28th 2009 @ 11:19am | Report comment
This wallabies team has far more balance than the last test where a distict lack of desire and hunger were so obvious. They will still struggle and lose a few, but at least we are heading in to the right direction. Smith had to go to the bench on his performances as captain(distracted??). He is a silent assassin, not a captain. I feel Mortlock at captain for the last few years has been disastrous. He does not inspire and lead like John Eales, nor is he any good with the media-his contradictory statemnents on Lote’s dismissal highlight this.He was covering his own back by supporting him publically and then not doing so on discussions with the ARU. He actually agreed to his termination.He is long in the tooth and I hope Ryan Cross plays well to nullify critics. Back to smith-he should make a huge inpression off the bench.
They should also consider a halfback reserve instead of Burgess.
As much as I love the Wallabies, immense pressure on Robbie Deans could meterialise and see him sacked if the tout does not finish well. There have been team disharmony and the coach must iron these out-thet’s his job. The only other thing would be to cut a few egoes down to size (such as Mat Gitaeu). I still wonder what the real reason for Tiquiries departure was for-to rid the team of older influential and destructure players (therefore Waugh,Baxter and Tiquiri gone)
I still feel they deserve our support and if they start winning, all will be forgotten and World Cup is around the corner.
Honeybadger
Terry Kidd said | October 28th 2009 @ 11:31am | Report comment
As I said earlier, I think the ABs have worked out how to counter Smith’s influence which is why he seems to have quiet games against them …. maybe Pocock will present a new problem?
Bill said | October 28th 2009 @ 11:50am | Report comment
Flanker – not surprised to see Smith on the bench. I still think he will most likely start 3 out of the 5 tests. I’m hoping Deans tells Pocock to go flat out for 40 minutes and then very early in the 2nd half substitute him for Smith.
Wings – good to see Digby get a start! Peter Hynes has done some good things with the ball in hand over the past 2 years but when in space really needs to back himself and head for the corner instead of cutting back inside.
Fullback – please no mid-field bombs from Ashley-Cooper where he doesn’t chase the kick through! Hoping to see him hitting the line at pace off some 1st phase play from the scrum.
O.C. – Cross being given another opportunity against the ABs is a worry. He doesn’t seem to have the ability to set up his winger. As others have mentioned he has a tendency to run towards the sideline and only looks to pass when he is going to be swamped by the defence. He will try his guts out though.
TommyM said | October 28th 2009 @ 4:39pm | Report comment
Cross has also created a lot of tries though by getting of a pass whilst being tackled by two players. This is his greatest strength- his ability to stand in the tackle and offload. If his wingers and AAC hover around him and look for it he’s always looking to put someone through a gap.
Bay35Pablo said | October 28th 2009 @ 9:13pm | Report comment
Those league skills …
Terry Kidd said | October 28th 2009 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
Cross worries me in defence too …. have seen him miss some awful tackles and turn his back at the wrong moment …. I really hope he has one of his good days !!!!
scottmit said | October 28th 2009 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
Interesting to see Smith on the bench. When Waugh and Smith were sharing the on-baller role a couple of years ago I always thought that they had the order wrong; would have been better to start with Waugh as the more destructive and defensive of the two and bring Smith on later to take advantage of a bit more space wide of the ruck. I wonder if this may be part of the thinking with Pocock starting.
Terry Kidd said | October 28th 2009 @ 1:00pm | Report comment
I’m with Blinky …. my wife knows better than to be around when the Wallabies are playing …. she is going out …. I’ll be at home cheering if things are going well, screaming and kicking the tv around the lounge room if they ain’t …. tis a new tv since the last test in Wellington …. I wonder if the new gadget is fearing a short life?
mudskipper said | October 28th 2009 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
Officially nobody is saying much but this 2009 Bledisloe cup is already lost. Deans and assistances know it, as do the ARU. However it’s an opportunity to give some rare experience to Pocock and PTN against the All Blacks. Furthermore it will take all 22 Wallabies to defeat the All Blacks.
What the Wallabies really need to win back the supporters and sponsors is to win the Grand Slam. This will be an extremely demanding tour for the Wallabies to back up each week. So while it would be great to win in Tokyo it’s far more important the Wallabies conquer England at Twickenham to commence a successful tour.
It’s a perfect chance for Pocock and PTN to start and have another crack at the All Blacks gaining further international confidence. Additionally with George Smith absent from the field it gives Rocky Elsom a chance to being his Wallabies Captaincy commencing his leadership without the unnecessary distraction of the former captain by his side.
Smith and Moore will be back starting at Twickers the following week, fresh and ready for the long month on the road.
Terry Kidd said | October 28th 2009 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
What worries me most is that a lot of the ABs have had recent rugby in the NPC while the Wallabies have had none ….. I don’t think the Wallabies will win due to this reason and am simply hoping for an improved performance.
Stash said | October 28th 2009 @ 2:18pm | Report comment
Mudskipper – I don’t think that Deans would write of any game against the ABs – you would be a fool to experiment (or give your players a run) against the All Blacks. Way too much pride in Denas and the old boys network to slump to that sort of behaviour.
Oconnor is probably better on the bench – he doesn’t perform well against the ABs.
So Mortlock gone – Smith to the bench – ouch thats a lot of experience to sacrifice – some nice, unpredictable strike power on the wings and even Cross (when he has a good run).
Look, Deans is obviously a good coach – (we all know that) but his selections never seem 100% (maybe with the Crusaders he simply didn’t have the talent pool, so we never noticed this deficiency). Deans bench selections have been suspect to date….well actually, they’ve been terrible (and how he uses it).
Ultimately, the team in its totality on the field makes the difference. So is Deans actually a bad selector? Is this why the Wallabies have been losing close games?
I’m beginning to suspect so…
mudskipper said | October 28th 2009 @ 4:14pm | Report comment
Stash so you’re telling me that O’Connor wasn’t an experiment this season? Deans is rebuilding a squad he has no choice…
MarkR said | October 28th 2009 @ 2:29pm | Report comment
Stash – you’ve been losing games because your forward pack weren’t up to it, solid lineout but meidocre scrum & not a well balanced backrow. This makes it very hard for the backline to fire except for in the one game where SA didn’t play very well.
Regarding teh numbers to the breakdown comments – one of the things the Boks & ABs did well this year was intelligent counter rucking i.e. it’s not just numbers to the breakdown but how & when you use them. Smith has gone well, he just hasn’t had the support McCaw or Brussow have had so far.
Should be an interesting game & a nice intro to the NH tours. So how many games does Pothale & ColinH think the NH teams will win ? Just stirring NH guys, I’m loking forward to some good hard matches.
Hammer said | October 28th 2009 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
“maybe with the Crusaders he simply didn’t have the talent pool, so we never noticed this deficiency” – WTF – didn’t have talent in the Crusaders – is that what you’re saying ?
I’d say it was the strength and depth of the Crusaders talent courtesy of their well oiled talent spotting machine and the overall organisation which covered over the fact that Deans ain’t that special – face it the ARU are paying a $1m a year for an average at best provincal coach
MarkR said | October 28th 2009 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
Hammer – wow, so far off the mark it’s almost not funny. Deans did MORE with his talent than Blues or Wellington coaches who it could be argued, had a better talent pool. In fact some of his guys became ABs ONLY because of how well Canterbury did, I mean Scott McDonald, Caleb Ralph, even Toddy, great 1st division players but I doubt very much if they would’;ve got in the ABs if they’d been palying for Otago or Waikato !
What he was exceptional at was getting the team playing as a unit & getting the best out of what he had. I’d say he was an exceptional 1st grade coach, but an unproven international coach. Thanks for giving him the opportunity to learn the ropes BTW.
Hammer said | October 28th 2009 @ 2:59pm | Report comment
MR – the Hurricanes have lacked one vital piece of the puzzle a worthwhile 1st 5 .. they’ve never had one … will be interesting to watch Cruden’s developemnt in the next couple of seasons … ditto the Blues struggled with a 1st 5 .. Spencer was good at that level but after him it’s been downhill …. but on that note the only time the Blues got back on track was when Henry returned for 1 season as an “advisor” – all of a sudden they looked the part again – so for those in the game of Henry v Deans then really Henry has proven he’s more than his match … and lets not forget Deans worked with 2 blokes who will go down as AB greats that will be regarded as possibly the best ever in the respective positions –
Can’t really argue on the players you’ve mentioned … although Blackadder may well have cracked it elsewhere … but wasn’t Ralph an All Black before he went south .. and anyway who was it who consistently selected him when down there wasn’t it during the Deans / Mitchell era …
look the bloke certainly was a good Super coach – but he’s proving to be all at sea on the international stage – and if his strengths are “getting the team playing as a unit & getting the best out of what he had” – then what does that say about the current Wallabies … perhaps this really is the best they can do … if so there’s going to be some long seasons to come …
Jerry said | October 28th 2009 @ 8:15pm | Report comment
Mark – you’ve got a point, but Caleb Ralph was an All Black when he moved to the Crusaders and Todd Blackadder was developed by Wayne Smith (and selected for the AB’s by Wayne Smith it must be said) rather than Deans.
Stash said | October 28th 2009 @ 2:39pm | Report comment
Mark R – agree with the breakdown problem and that Smith seemed to operate alone at times. Though the Wallabies aren’t my team – I’m an AB supporter.
Hammer – The Crusaders line-up during Deans reign was first rate – the bench wobbly – replacements decidedly average (Blackadder is just now managing to mine some gold from the shadow of a team he was left with). I’m just saying that Deans didn’t stay awake at night when deciding his team selection with the Crusaders – they choose themselves.
If you don’t believe me, here’s one name – Scott (cough it up) Hamilton – (what a rubbish player and good riddance to him in Japan or Jamaica or wherever he is). Haunted the bench because there was no one else to choose (I think he may have accidentally won a run on with the all blacks – a spelling error on the roster no doubt, nevertheless it was short lived)
MarkR said | October 28th 2009 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
Stash – that is harsh, for Canterbury Scott Hamilton was Mr Reliable & was a good solid performer.
Stash said | October 28th 2009 @ 2:48pm | Report comment
Hamilton was absolutely rubbish, and the entire New Zealand nation shuddered whenever he ran onto the field.
This was made worse by his determined efforts to always hug the player that got a try as quickly as possible so that he could be on the TV replays (its a true story and a long ongoing joke, ie “its a try….now where’s the Scott Hamilton hug…”).
Complete poser and I don’t mind being harsh in this instance.
ohtani's jacket said | October 28th 2009 @ 3:11pm | Report comment
Man, if Deans could he’d play Hamilton in every Wallabies Test. That oughta tell you something about Deans.
MarkR said | October 28th 2009 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
Stash – are you basing your comments on when he palyed for Canterbury or the Crusaders – if so I have to strongly disagree as he made up for a lack of top end speed with good decision making.
If you’re basing your comments on his fwe games in the AB jersey then I definitely agree he was way out of his depth.
Stash said | October 28th 2009 @ 3:07pm | Report comment
Sorry Mark – can’t change that opinion – and it was based on his Crusaders presence (his AB career was dismal). I did meet one other person that strangely rated Hamilton (perhaps its the Christchurch air….).
MarkR said | October 28th 2009 @ 3:13pm | Report comment
Nah mate it’s the CD…..enough of that rubbish & you’ll think anyone’s good, even youeself %-). Funny thing is same time CD came out McSomthing ale went off the market- noone would drink it. Funny thing is CD tasted the same but was suddenly the most popular beer in ChCh thanks to Grizz being on a poster. Says all you need to know about Canterbury….
reds fan said | October 28th 2009 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
kiwi team announced. NEW ZEALAND: 15 Mils Muliaina, 14 Sitiveni Sivivatu, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma’a Nonu, 11 Cory Jane, 10 Dan Carter, 9 Jimmy Cowan, 8 Rodney So’oialo, 7 Richie McCaw (c), 6 Adam Thomson, 5 Tom Donnelly, 4 Brad Thorn, 3 Neemia Tialata, 2 Andrew Hore, 1 Tony Woodcock. Reserves: 16 Corey Flynn, 17 John Afoa, 18 Jason Eaton, 19 Kieran Read, 20 Brendon Leonard, 21 Stephen Donald, 22 Tamati Ellison.
Brett McKay said | October 28th 2009 @ 2:59pm | Report comment
yeah, that’s a pretty handy line-up…
ohtani's jacket said | October 28th 2009 @ 2:59pm | Report comment
Dunno why he has Sivivatu on the left and Rodney at eight is interesting. Other than that, it’s pretty much business as usual.
Rin said | October 28th 2009 @ 3:55pm | Report comment
Thats a solid team …..
although tough call between Thompson and Kieran Read, i would prefer Read and Kaino on the bench (not sure if he is fit though).
Ben said | October 28th 2009 @ 2:55pm | Report comment
http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/polls/results.html
Says it all really.
MarkR said | October 28th 2009 @ 2:56pm | Report comment
Nice, good team, thanks RF
Stash said | October 28th 2009 @ 3:12pm | Report comment
Thanks Reds Fan – Surprised to see Rodney there (can’t see him doing more than 50mins) good to see Thomson in the run on team – he was superb last outing. Here’s hoping Donald doesn’t make it off the bench (he had his chances and the sooner he is gone the better)..
Donnelly gets another chance – this looks a pretty solid team.
reds fan said | October 28th 2009 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
you’d think a dead rubber was the perfect time to put a developing player on the bench instead of donald.
ohtani's jacket said | October 28th 2009 @ 3:23pm | Report comment
Donald usually does all right against the Aussies. Given that they’re just about the only side he does all right against, you probably have a point.
MarkR said | October 28th 2009 @ 3:16pm | Report comment
Stash – 100% agreement this time….must be beer o’clock
stuff happens said | October 28th 2009 @ 4:23pm | Report comment
AB’s team looks very good to me. Front 5 far better than Australia, unless they play out of their skins.I thought Donnelly looked good in WLG. Sorry, but I still don’t get the GS decision. The Wallabies are desperate for a win and you leave one of the few world class players on the bench. Elsom will need one big game my friends plus the ability to carry those around him.
Also I think the AB’s are better with Conrad Smith in midfield.He’s a smart guy.
Frank O'Keeffe said | October 28th 2009 @ 4:45pm | Report comment
I have no idea how to feel about Pocock being chosen ahead of Smith. There are so many factors to consider.
I remember during the 2008 Super 14 Pocock came up against Richie McCaw and outplayed him. I was in shock that such a young player could have such an amazing impact. This was after watching season after season of McCaw outplaying Smith. I overreacted and instantly thought Pocock would become one of Australia’s best ever players. But then I saw him come up against Smith and Waugh. Both seemed bloody intent on making sure he stayed outside of the Australian team.
This year it was clear Phil Waugh was well and truly passed it. You have to respect Waugh for wanting everything so bad, and it’s not a Waratahs game if Phil Waigh hasn’t spilt some blood. But Deans did the right thing to get rid of him. Aussies didn’t want to see Waugh go, some suggested he should play hooker or something, his competitive nature was such an invaluable commodity that people didn’t want to see him go. But in the end there was only one right decision and that was for Deans to cull him.
So it was Smith v Pocock. This year in the Super 14 Smith has generally been better. Smith hasn’t really had much of an influence of any of the tri nations games though.
I think most people think Smith is still slightly better than Pocock, but a possible consequence of dumping Smith is that it might force Pocock to take more responsibility on the field, stand-up, learn a few things, and improve his game. I’d love to see the David Pocock that outplayed McCaw again. Bob Dwyer once said when you judge who should be selected, you judge them by their best form. It’s then the coach’s job to make sure they reach that level over and over again.
Pocock, to me, hasn’t played as well as he did that day he outplayed McCaw. But gosh I was excited that day he did. Hopefully he’ll make a real fist of this opportunity, because right now Smith (despite his talent) isn’t exerting much of an influence on games, and Pocock could really develope into an awesome player.
johnny-boy said | October 28th 2009 @ 8:03pm | Report comment
I’m not even going to get any hopes up. They might surprise but not bloody likely. It’s hard to even get interested or to even watch it, inviting disappointment, once again. Bottom line appears to be – Robbie Deans, as a former All Black and All Black coach is not the bloke who can inspire the Wallabies to go and smash the hell out of the All Blacks. Which the Wallabies need to do to make up for any shortcomings. As much as I dislike Alan Jones the broadcaster, it would seem he is the only guy who could do it. He needs to be flown to Japan as well, not just a pep talk before they leave and Deans booted out of the changing room before the match. Aussies doing it for themselves ! He might have some good technical knowledge but his inspirational qualities are obviously crap. Have a look at his vitamin supplement ad in the Weekend Australian Magazine last week. What a prize dork and demonstrates he is more interested in fame and self promotion and money, than getting down to the serious business of coaching the Wallabies to their potential. Like O’Neill aint already paying him enough to be a show pony ! Templeton? may have inspired him but he aint returning the favour.
Dont have last test notes with me (which I wrote down over replay to try and figure out why they were so bloody hopeless) but one thing that does stick in my mind was that the Wallabies were absolutely pathetic at chasing kickoffs and receiving same. They just weren’t interested and practically gifted it to All Blacks every time. Wimps ! Get in and have a bloody go ya wallies and with the right body and hand positions so you dont frigging knock it on. If you telegraph to the opposition that you’re not really that interested (like not bothering to jump at lineouts against the worst lineout in the world as well) they’ll smell fear and disinterest and storm all over you. And surprise surprise, looked what happened last time.
I live in anticipation of more disappointment in a last ditch reverse psychology ploy.
Knives Out said | October 28th 2009 @ 8:54pm | Report comment
General point here: I noticed that Australia turned up at the appropriate airport in a mix-match of tracksuits, pop socks, and shorts. I know that there is the debate between looking smart, and being pragmatic (and it wouldn’t be too comfortable wearing a suit on a long flight) but surely the players could have worn a suit and got changed on the plane? They looked like a mob of Aussie surfers. Doesn’t send out much of a message.
mcxd said | October 28th 2009 @ 9:35pm | Report comment
they looked like a mob of aussie surfers or a collection of japanese schoolgirls.
Bay35Pablo said | October 28th 2009 @ 9:20pm | Report comment
With Waugh gone and Pocock in the starting XV, Smithie would be feeling the cold wind of his late career. If he doesn’t pick his form up, he must know he’ll slide out the back of the truck.
I think he’s still got it in him.
westy said | October 28th 2009 @ 9:53pm | Report comment
I look forward with enthusiasm to the European tour . I have no idea what this game ags the All Blacks means. Sometimes mere repitition cheapens the product. Short term financial gain may have a longer term cost.
I think Smith will force his way back into the starting lineup.
Stash said | October 28th 2009 @ 10:19pm | Report comment
Oh well, perhaps Smith can help Mortlock and Waugh hand out Donuts at half-time – now that Dunnings been recalled.
Deans is probably lucky he never got the AB coaching position – his selections would have lead to riots in the streets (then again Rocko and Donald missed the scythe for too long)
Dexter William said | October 28th 2009 @ 11:29pm | Report comment
Good selection in general by Deans.
Pocock deserves a go at the ABs, and Smith to be given a 30 minutes at the end sounds like a good strategy.
How ever disappointed with:
1) Michell being selected on the bench. He should not even be in the tour.
2) Burgess being selected on the bench, knowing full well that Gits having anxiety attackes when he is half back. Burgess should go back to club Rugby to work on his game.
3) Why is Giteau still palying at 10? Pretty disappointing after Dean’s been talking tough preceeding this game. Who’s the Boss?
4) Cross selection is weak, but who else is there? I can’t see him playing test after this tour. I hope he shows more guts and enthusiasm at his defence.
Oh and please make sure to tell Palu that this is really really really his last chance to show that he has got balls big enough to play test.
Ben said | October 29th 2009 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
Agree on all points above except maybe the George Smith one. Smith should be there for Palu at a minimum.
Jameswm said | October 30th 2009 @ 10:20am | Report comment
I was going to make the point that Terry Kidd did – that is that Pocock and Palu have been chosen to give us more strength and power at the breakdown, bigger bodies that can knock opponents flying. Smith, Brown and Hodgson are too small.
After 50 Palu can be puffed and Smith can come on.
Some of you are awfully tough on Palu – the guy is a sensational player and so strong in contact, plus he can offload. He mightn’s be in as many rucks as Smith or Pocock, but that’s not his job. His job is once he gets there, to smash the opponents and make a difference. He is also the only one who can be jumped on by three opposing forwards but still manage to not go backwards and recycle the ball.
I’ve watched him before and this is nonsense about his lesser workrate – watch him closely in a game, in the replay even, if you don’t believe me. He is there in or one off the ruck plugging holes and driving the attacker back, if they are silly enough to run at him (they tend to avoid him).
Note they have picked TPN to start for the same reason – the guy is a human missile and hurts when he tackles. Strong as anything and a brute in scrums. More power at the breakdown.
A top person too, which I’ve said before.
stillmissit said | October 30th 2009 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
Jameswm – I too have seen him do some great stuff and believe he should be one of the first picked as long as we are NOT playing the AB’s. I will watch him very closely tomorrow night to see if I am right or you are?
I too have heard that TPN is a great bloke and fairly smart by all accounts. He does bring another dimension to the pack and now that he seems to have gotten over his ‘throw in’ issues he is in front of Stephen Moore, this amazes me as I thought we were lucky to have a great hooker in Moore. Pity we dont have two great locks (2nd row).
When you think about it we have only two guys in the pack that can make opposition forwards consider their safety and that is Elsom and Palu.
Not getting excited about tomorrow, more interested and quizzical I guess. Got this awful feeling the AB’s are going to do us again!!!!
Blinky – you had better get down to Retravision now and order a new one ! You know it is going to happen.