By simonjzw -
October 29th 2009 @ 1:35am
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Loading ...Will football overtake other Australian codes?
Whilst I applaud the passion and fervour with which football fans follow their sport, I’m always bewildered by their assertions that the sport is going to overtake the other football codes in Australia.
There is absolutely no evidence to suggest this will ever happen.
Not only does football have to become much more popular than it is, but the AFL and NRL would need to have significant popularity declines and this just isn’t happening.
In Australia, we all got behind the Socceroos at the last World Cup, but that event hasn’t had any impact on the popularity of the NRL and the AFL.
Entry into the Asia region has meant many more interesting Socceroos matches and qualification for the next world cup. But the A-League isn’t taking the public by storm – ratings and crowd attendances are down and disappointing.
And there are serious questions about the standard.
Now I notice the Gold Coast team is moving ahead with plans to cap crowds at 5,000. And this in one of the fastest growing population centres in Australia.
Compare that with the success of the Gold Coast Titans, in the NRL, from day one.
A lot has been said and written about the AFL’s push into Western Sydney. But you can be assured that team will attract crowds better than the most popular A-League team in its first season in the AFL.
And let’s not forget the A-League plays in the off-season for the NRL and AFL.
But the most important fact, that all the football zealots ignore, is that it hasn’t happened anywhere else in the world where a strong, national indigenous football code exists.
Ireland – Gaelic Football
Canada – Canadian Football
United States – Gridiron
In each of these countries the indigenous codes and national competitions have flourished. Their popularity has not been undermined by football in any way.
Any national football competitions in these countries sit way down the pecking order in terms of popularity and public consciousness.
And Ireland is within spitting distance of at least four major European Leagues.
I’ve read a lot of blah blah blah on The Roar about digital television and the internet bringing the diversity of world game to the masses. The truly international nature of football and its grass roots popularity are also popular themes.
But to everyone out there who is telling me “just wait and see what things will be like in 20 (50) years time”, none of that means the A-League will ever be able to compete in our winter with the NRL or the AFL.
The AFL and the NRL will always be our premier football competitions.
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ps can anyone tell me why rugby in NZ is so dominant and played across all strata of society and in Oz it is mainly a preppy...
tifosi said | October 29th 2009 @ 4:28am | Report comment
I agree, i think the other codes fear it a bit too much.
Football will get bigger, but it will always be everyone’s second sport.
Robbos said | October 29th 2009 @ 6:02am | Report comment
Fear has driven this article.
Freud of Football said | October 29th 2009 @ 6:17am | Report comment
How very insular of you simon. I’m going to look at your article from a neutral perspective, pretty easy as I grew up an AFL fan and came to football later in my childhood, I love both games but for you to write an article like this stinks of ignorance.
For starters, “gridiron” is not the term used for American Football by anyone with the slightest idea of the game. Having lived in America I can attest to its popularity but I can also confirm just how popular football (or socka as you likely call it) is. This is the sport played by people in parks, by kids, by teens, this is the sort of thing more families get together to watch than any NFL game.
NFL fans are generally very passionate, football has more casual followers and while the MLS may not be huge, La Liga and the EPL have a very big following in the country as do the Brazilian and Argentian leagues.
You noted that the Gold Coast has capped crowds but failed to mention its because the billionaire owner doesn’t want to shell out $100,000 extra when a crowd of 5100 shows up.
“Not only does football have to become much more popular than it is, but the AFL and NRL would need to have significant popularity declines and this just isn’t happening.” – No, all that needs to happen is more money comes into football which will inevitably result in an increase in standards which will make the game more appealing. Or a WC, having that on our doorstep would have the same affect it had on the USA when it staged the tournament in 94, football boomed like never before after the WC there.
Or -which is also quite possible – the AFL and NRL decline. The AFL is already losing some of the traditonalist fans due to the rule changes which have taken out so much of the contact in the sport and NRL is losing families as the well-publicised off-field antics continue (yes the AFL has them but they don’t seem to be as much of a deterrant).
If either code can’t command as much money as they have, the games will decline and football will only improve.
I’m not saying football is going to be number one in 5, 10 or 50 years but I am saying your entire reasoning is flawed and football has potential, real potential to grow and a lot more than either the NRL or AFL have.
True Tah said | October 29th 2009 @ 7:32am | Report comment
Freud
so if more money comes into the HAL it will make the comp more appealing than NRL/AFL? When you factor in the likes of Lowy and Palmer, there would be far more money in the HAL than NRL/AFL combined. And it hasnt really led to capacity crowds at GCU or SFC games this season.
The strength of these comps is that they are a lot more integrated in their communities and representative. I dont believe Australians will generally support teams which are essentially the playthings of multimillionaires.
Freud of Football said | October 29th 2009 @ 7:41am | Report comment
Lowy and Palmer can’t spend their money, with the salary cap in place it is always going to restrict the level of the A-League.
“I dont believe Australians will generally support teams which are essentially the playthings of multimillionaires.” – Would you disagree that the majority of football fans in Aus – including those with but a fleeting interest – are more likely to be fans of an EPL, Serie A or La Liga team first and foremost than of an A-League club?
I’d think – without looking at any statistics – that clubs in these three leagues would garner more support in Aus than any A-League club and we all know that those clubs are the “playthings of multimillionaires” or squillionaires.
Australian’s mightn’t like the issue of money in sport and be as accepting of it as Europeans but anyone can tell the gulf in class between any two leagues will make one more appealing over the other.
Michael C said | October 29th 2009 @ 7:46am | Report comment
seeing the current restructuring of baseball in Australia, with the MLB investing $25 million in establishing an ABL that is a ’safe’ and ‘friendly’ place for players to go off season and to recruit from (unlike gun toting Costa Rica for example)……is it just a matter of time before some foreign soccer interest actually invests the $100 million or so into the FFA/HAL?…….although, would that be enough?
How much money would it take to make domestic soccer in this country attractive enough??
Clive Palmer and GCU exhibit that for all the talk and grand plans…….Palmer is still trying to run it as a business……..and for private owners, so far, a HAL club is generally a bad short term investment.
FofF – re ‘decline’….given AFL has had it’s 3 highest ever attended seasons of matches and record club memberships. The NRL had a record year. Compare both to the HAL….which is looking sick and sorry and as though it’s fighting outside of it’s weight division (an issue that continues to burn basketball in this country).
What will happen in 20 years time??? Outside of hosting a FIFA WC…..
AndyRoo said | October 29th 2009 @ 11:07am | Report comment
Michael C
“Is it just a matter of time before some foreign soccer interest actually invests the $100 million or so into the FFA/HAL?…….although, would that be enough?
I doubt we would see foreign investment because why wouldn’t they support their own league or one with more prestige. If someone has 100 million dollars there are much better ways to make money than develop a football competition. It’s normally the person witht he TV rights, or emrchandising contract that makes money. I can’t think of any code that is allowed to stockpile profits, you have to reinvest it back into the game or supporters get restless.
If they are doing it for prestige if the money is spent on player salaries then that can quickly evaporate with very little long term benefit.
Perhaps someone would get involved if they decided to set up a competitor to Foxtel. It’s a bit pie in the sky but perhaps someone who has interests in Asian football would use the A league as a base to stuff the a league teams full of the best Sth East Asian talent as a way of getting teams that appeal to those markets into the ACL.
Don’t think this would be a huge boon for crowd figures though or represent anything resembling a dramatic changing of the guard on the Australian scene.
People with 100’s of millions of Dollars tend not to be very patient with their hobbies and that’s what getting involved with Football requires. Also a bit of humility because you could spend 3 billion dollars and all you would get for it would be the 3rd most popular football code. You could overtake the NRL figures wise but only by remaining a summer game, which is a false economy.
If you gave me 100m and a mandate to improve football, what would I do with the money?
That’s a though provoking question.
Freud of Football said | October 29th 2009 @ 6:18pm | Report comment
Michael, the MLB is a totally different sport and in a league of its own with popularity and finances and as such is hard to compare to Aus. One average starting player for an MLB team would earn more than an A-League clubs salary cap so $25 Million is spare change.
It is posible that football in Aus will get outside investment. Clubs across the world are changing their financial structures.
There are teams popping up all over Brazil with the sole aim of identifying and selling talent. There are clubs in some of the “lesser” European leagues that are starting to get the backing of some of the Russian Oligarch’s who see these clubs with large domestic fan-bases and proud histories as “ideal” investments.
What is to say Australia can’t become a type of “glamour league”? A plaything for the rich who come here to live comfortably?
Just look at Australia as a country – Standard of living is exceptional, climate is great, english is the main language, currency and economics are preferrable to the rich. It has the prerequisites to allow Australia to attract investors for the game.
James said | October 29th 2009 @ 9:40am | Report comment
Participation means jack. Soccer has been number 1 in the participation stakes now in USA for decades. So what? Its a relatively simple and safe game to play…
aljay said | October 29th 2009 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
Football has also been No.1 in participation in Australia for years now as well, and hasn’t led to it being the No.1 professional sport.
Michael said | October 29th 2009 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
If you look at the demographics of those who participate in it, you can understand why. Most amateur participation in sport is done by juniors, who don’t have full time jobs, who can’t afford to buy membership packages and attend all the matches.
You look at the demographics of people who go to AFL matches and the average age of attendees is going up. Australia having an aging population does have something to do with it, but moreso the narrow-mindedness of older people.
mahony said | October 29th 2009 @ 1:48pm | Report comment
Michael – you have raised the problem for AFL/NRL that dare not speak its own name – demographics. Well done, I could not agree more – which is why I speak of this debate in generational terms. It is hard to notice a shifting glacier when you are standing on it.
Dickroo said | October 29th 2009 @ 6:22am | Report comment
yes, it can happen.
Just open up the immigration gate towards Asian, South American, African and Europeans.
Pippinu said | October 29th 2009 @ 7:43am | Report comment
Although perversely, the ABS stats show that a greater percentage of Australians born overseas attend AFL games than any other code – and by a considerable margin in percentage terms I might add.
True Tah said | October 29th 2009 @ 7:47am | Report comment
So every person from Asia, Africa and Europe who migrates to Australia is a futbol fan and will not follow NRL/AFL? How would you explain the passion Australians of Lebanese heritage have developed for rugby league, when futbol is the only sport in their homeland?
I take it by Asians you include Indians, Sir Lankans, Pakistanis, for whom cricket would be the no. 1 sport.
There are plenty of Africans already in Australia, these include South Africans, and for a fair chunk of them, rugby would be their no.1 sport. Note you excluded Pacific Islanders as well.
I thought we have already opened up immigration gates for Europeans since WW2????
James said | October 29th 2009 @ 9:35am | Report comment
Very true TT and PiP. Melbourne is the most international and multicultural of all Austrlalian cities, with the percentage fo those born overseas over 30% comparted to about a quarter for the rest of Australia. Yet, AFL thrives in this town. Why?
Allen said | October 29th 2009 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
Baby Boomers.. control all the money and can’t get enough of AFL because they remember the glory days of the 70’s, 80’s
Pippinu said | October 29th 2009 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
Were the 70s and 80s glory days??
I thought the then VFL nearly went broke in the mid 80s.
Dickroo said | October 29th 2009 @ 10:09am | Report comment
fair enough, well then, open it up to South Americans.
I’d like to see how those Brazil migrants and their kids here adopt the egg balls
)
Pippinu said | October 29th 2009 @ 2:29pm | Report comment
Actually, I’m aware of at least one Brazilian born player in the AFL today.
Here’s his wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_O%27Brien
It opens:
“Heritier “Harry” O’Brien (born 15 November 1986) is an Australian rules footballer in the Australian Football League
He was born to a Brazilian mother and a Congolese father in Rio de Janeiro, and moved to Western Australia when he was 3 years old.[1] However he was raised by his Australian stepfather and was 19 years old when he found out about his biological father.[2] He supported the Essendon Bombers as a child, with his family owning a pet dog named Sheedy after the long-time Essendon coach, Kevin Sheedy. ”
Only in Australia would you find a kid born in Rio, to a Congalese father, who named his dog Sheeds, and took to aussie rules.
How can anyone not love the diversity of Australia? We just keep offering these rare gems to the rest of the world.
dasilva said | October 29th 2009 @ 8:53am | Report comment
Other sports has done a pretty good job at attracting migrants.
VIetnamese community most of them I know support an AFL side despite the fact that Football is a national sport back in their country. If they support Football it’s generally EPL.
It’s not as simple as letting in migrants in this country and expect Football to be the sole beneficiaries of that.
One of the things migrants pick up when they arrive in Australia is that we are pretty sporting mad country and to intergrate and get along with other people it’s wise to pick up AFL and cricket in your vocabulary (I’m quite sure leagues in other states)
They may like football but they also may develop a liking for other sports as well.
Redb said | October 29th 2009 @ 6:43am | Report comment
I think its’ fair after 5 years of the A League where there was much prediction and fear mongering by futbol fans to summarise soccer’s efforts as improved but far from over-whelming.
Would what would be interesting is if the EPL teams relocated to Australia and played a domestic competition for 5 years to see where the code would sit on the sporting landscape. They would need to go head to head with the AFL and NRL but as the EPL is one of the elite soccer comps in the world – the quality on the park would be there.
It would certainly be a fairer fight than the ‘Has Been’ A League (HAL).
The key difference in Australia is that we have choice we have seen the light of the other codes – the physicality and athleticism on display in the AFL/NRL and of course the revolutionary use of hands
Redb
Chris said | October 29th 2009 @ 6:48am | Report comment
This year the AFL has seen a small crowd and ratings increase.
The NRL has seen a slightly larger increase (albeit from a smaller base).
The A-League has seen a considerable decrease (and from a much smaller base).
The only sports less likely to overtake the NRL/AFL right now are Rugby and Tiddlywinks.
James said | October 29th 2009 @ 9:39am | Report comment
Actually the AFL had a very minor decrese in crowds, but not by much….less than 1,000 on average.
Club Membership however rose again to new record levels…around 600k now
albe said | October 29th 2009 @ 6:51am | Report comment
Football fans aren’t that preoccupied with overtaking the other “codes”. Its an argument i hear more from people who follow other sports. (It may in fact come as a surprise to some people to learn that different sports can CO-EXIST.)
Where we sit on the pecking order with these minor sports like Aussie rules or rugby league is of little consequence.
I’d rather have a football league that positions us to compete with other clubs in Asia.
The success of the A-League long term will be measured by how we compare to other football leagues, not other sports.
Luke W said | October 29th 2009 @ 7:13am | Report comment
Football has already taken over those other sports. Participation rates, Socceroos ratings and attendances, EPL/La Liga/Serie A support, etc.
Like I’ve always said, the biggest competitor for the A-League isn’t the NRL or AFL, it’s the other mediums of football people can watch.
True Tah said | October 29th 2009 @ 7:36am | Report comment
Luke W
futbol has always been the most popular participation in the sport from year zero, yet despite this massive natural advantage, it cannot compete as a professional sport. Pretty much every male in this country has been a registered futbol player at some stage in his life, and there are something like 2m registered players in the country right now.
Maybe as small kids we play the game, but we prefer watching NRL/AFL?
Robbos said | October 29th 2009 @ 8:20am | Report comment
TT,
I’m sure there is the 15th NZ v Aus game to watch in either league or union for you to discuss or the joke that is the 4 nations. But then again at least you have int’l football.
Luke W said | October 29th 2009 @ 8:48am | Report comment
People want to watch the best of the best. How many NRL fans watch the English Super League? There would be some no doubt, but there would be even more that wouldn’t bother because it isn’t up to the same standard as the NRL. The A-League suffers the same problem in reverse. People would rather watch the EPL/La Liga/Seria A/Champions League because it is of a higher quality.
M1tch said | October 29th 2009 @ 8:50am | Report comment
I used to watch heaps of ESL, but nine has the rights now and shafted the game to midnight
Pippinu said | October 29th 2009 @ 7:45am | Report comment
It’s a god point that tt makes – all of us have been registered soccer players at one time or another, or at a minimum, have played heaps at school.
On the other, there are millions of males that have probably never held a brand new sherrin in their hands.
The Link said | October 29th 2009 @ 8:26am | Report comment
Robbos, that chip on your shoulder looks to have extended into your brain.
The 4 RL nations playing at the moment have been playing each other for over 60 years.
Small compared to football, of course, what a revelation.
A joke – hardly.
Robbos said | October 29th 2009 @ 8:33am | Report comment
The Link, the 4 nations has as much interest as the A-League competition. I live & work in Sydney, where the NRL is discussed quite regularly. Noone mentioned the 20 all draw with NZ the other day in the office. Not even sure when the next match is on?
Michael C said | October 29th 2009 @ 8:26am | Report comment
The more things change, the more they stay the same -
Socceroos 2 friendlies drew 61K total avg 30.5K
Socceroos 3 WC qualifiers drew 165K total avg 55K
Wallabies 3 Tri Nations matches drew 164K total avg 54.8 K
Wallabies 4 ‘other’ tests drew 126K total. avg 31.5K
Very, very similar figures there. And over the journey we’ve seen monster Socceroos crowds at the MCG for example (even friendlies v Greece).
SofO 3 matches drew 184K total avg 61.3K
NRL finals 9 matches drew 351K avg 39K
AFL 9 finals drew 625K total avg 68.3K
the lay of the land is that 9 AFL finals drew 625K compared to 15 matches made up of Wallabies, Socceroos and SoO that drew 700K at about 46K avg.
To me, that puts things in perspective.
The Socceroos can only play so many games in Australia……and even so, we’ve seen that an Asian Cup qualifier – a vital game – vs Oman at Etihad only drew 20,000.
THe Socceroos market value is becoming more real now.
Michael said | October 29th 2009 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
Talk about selective statistics.
The AFL Grand Final is always a sellout at the MCG, drawing almost 100K “fans”, the same with the preliminary finals.
If you want a fair representation, get those attendances as a proportion of stadium capacity.
Michael C said | October 29th 2009 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
why?
If the Socceroos are such a major player domestically, then, having 1 or 2 games a year in any given city is sure to be a sell out…..surely?
The 3 WC qualifiers drew 165K to a combination of ANZ twice and MCG…..that’s 247K capacity. So, running about 67% for those big 3 games.
Tri-Nations Wallabies were more squished, ANZ drew 80K, Subi 36K and Suncrop 47K, so, 164K into 181K capacity – so running around 90% for those big 3 games.
TN Wallabies tickets look a bit hotter than WC Qualifier Socceroos?
AFL finals had 7 matches at the MCG for 532K from 700K capacity, so running around 76%. Now, for the ‘big 3′ games, AFL prelims and GF with 300K capacity drew 265K. About 88%
NRL big 3 SoO drew 184K to venues with capacity of 192,500 so near enough to 95%.
These are some of the benchmarks year on year. The Socceroos are in a crowded market. btw – the other 2 Socceroos matches drew 61K to stadia with 101,800 capacity. So, about 60%. (obviously hurt by the low figure at Etihad as the Netherlands game did okay at SFS).
So – the total figures,
AFL finals, 9 matches, capacity 793,500, att 625K, 79% to capacity.
the others 15 matches as above, capacity 932,300, att 700K, 75% to capacity.
For what it matters.
dasilva said | October 29th 2009 @ 9:07am | Report comment
I don’t think people should discredit this participation rate.
It says one thing
The fact is football is popular in Australia
It is part of the culture in Australia
However Football success does not translate to A-league success
To say australian don’t like Football is an erroneous statement.
Unfortunately Football fans in Australia is a pretty divided bunch of people and the football fans are competing with Football from overseas
THerefore the mission from FFA isn’t to attract fans from different codes. It is to attract people who are already fans of Football to follow Australian Football. We are making some progress in that. Remember a while back, the Socceroos apart from the few WCQ or glamour matches weren’t that popular. We had the likes of Cahill playing to a crowd of 4-5k or less.
NOw the next challenge is to get them to support A-league which is far more difficult task. However if A-league ever does become really popular in Australia, it’ won’t do this by cannibalise any other code but by uniting football fans.
Michael C said | October 29th 2009 @ 9:48am | Report comment
just like basketball,
big numbers,
but, big numbers in both genders, big numbers in ’social’ levels, big numbers in older age groups.
And where’ basketball in this country.
High participation is obviously preferable to stuff all participation. But, even the Socceroos and FFA had a wake up call when the flavour of the month Socceroos only attracted 20,000 to Etihad for a crucial Asian Cup qualifier.
This tells us that either the Socceroos aren’t an automatic walk up start by themselves, or, if they are, then $50 a ticket is too steep.
Brett McKay said | October 29th 2009 @ 7:16am | Report comment
Deliberate copy/paste from the other “our code will be biggest” thread:
are we really going down this tackle-swinging path again?? And better yet, there’s another thread today saying [NRL] will overtake everything too.
Everyone’s looking to overtake everyone, oh yay….
katzilla said | October 29th 2009 @ 7:26am | Report comment
‘Football has already taken over those other sports. Participation rates,’
Are you talking about kicking a Solo can down the street?
Pippinu said | October 29th 2009 @ 7:30am | Report comment
That’s a great ad!
Michael C said | October 29th 2009 @ 8:29am | Report comment
in the paper the other day, a letter in 50/50 asking whether that fellow in the drink ad put his can in the bin.
(for the writers benefit..that fellow would be Harry…….what’s’is name…….)
at least the ‘can’ made an impression.
Art Sapphire said | October 29th 2009 @ 8:06am | Report comment
Another boring code war piece! Boring!!
I come to work, switch on the PC,check out the The Roar and see the same regurgitated pap.
It’s worse than Groundhog Day
RangerDick said | October 29th 2009 @ 8:51am | Report comment
you talk about AFL going to have larger crowds in western sydney than the a league. Very far from the truth. The fact is significant portions of australias football history has been made in western sydney with the majority of the socceroos from there. The most played sport there is football and if rovers engage the community correctly, the AFL will not stand a chance. Nobody plays AFL in western sydney and if they follow it they are already following the swans. what akes you think they will change there mind
Chris said | October 29th 2009 @ 9:23am | Report comment
I live in Western Sydney (and I hate AFL and Soccer equally so I am sufficiently neutral to comment on this): The Western Sydney AFL teams crowds will be more than double those of the A-League team. Easily.
RangerDick said | October 29th 2009 @ 9:39am | Report comment
I also live there and work in the media there. There is absolutely no hype surrounding the AFL team there except what comes outer AFL headqurters in Melbourne. Compared to quite significant hype the last month or so about rovers
Redb said | October 29th 2009 @ 10:22am | Report comment
To be fair the AFL Western Sydney team is still 3 years away. Soccer is a very big sport in WS compared to AFL so they should be in front.
Robbos said | October 29th 2009 @ 9:57am | Report comment
Hate is such a horrible thing to have about a sport that encourages young kids to play outside. I hope you don’t hate your sister because she plays Soccah.
Chris said | October 29th 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
There’s nothing wrong with playing any sport Robbos – even Golf and Tennis are fun to play but I wouldn’t ever watch more than the final round/game of the “Big Four” tournaments in either of them.
Even table tennis is fun to play. I would never watch it on TV though.
Obviously the word “hate” when applied to sport is used in much the same context as when you say “I hate peas”.
I defy anyone to name a single sport that isn’t fun to play.
dasilva said | October 29th 2009 @ 9:00am | Report comment
I don’t believe that culture gives a particular sport an entitledment to success.
It is part of mainstream Australian culture for people to support League and AFL.
Is there a problem that Football wants to become fashionable and be part of the mainstream culture as well
For me, culture and tradition are meant to be broken (in all fields not just sports)
whiskeymac said | October 29th 2009 @ 9:19am | Report comment
Mr Cheese, maybe from the outside looking in but that mis-generalisation of football fails to take into account the participation rates, the fact the game is played (and has been played) all over the country for a long time, the fact some clubs in “Aussie” have very strong communitiy ties etc. ie our first world cup was in 1974. if you are interested in u/s football here read Johnny Warren’s book (Shielas Wogs and Poofters) as it sets a different scene to the one you imagine. that’s not saying Rl and AFL (which you didnt mention) aren’t huge here. they are. and are more mainstream but football isnt the alien import/ boutique notion you think it is.
this is a different proposition to RL in the UK. the UK is not a monoculture re sport. football may be by far the dominant one but the others do well and get crowds and sponsorship and airtime. So even though not many kids play RL down “south” – i imagine hockey, union, basketball even are a lot more common than league (or they were when i lived there) – I still remember going to wembley in ‘95 to watch aus-england along with about 60,000 others. it may not be a dominant sport in the UK but it doesnt mean the game should just give up – for those people that like it it is very important (well in lancs-yorkshire anyway).
Chris said | October 29th 2009 @ 9:21am | Report comment
My 12 year old sister plays soccer.
Has she ever been to a soccer game: No.
Has she ever watched a soccer game on TV: No.
Does she own a soccer jersey: No
Has she ever been to a NRL game: Yes.
Has she ever watched a NRL game on TV: Yes.
Does she own an NRL jersey: Yes.
She is clearly an NRL fan, yet according to this participation rate tripe that soccer people live on she would be classified as a soccer fan…
eh said | October 29th 2009 @ 9:25am | Report comment
chris – fair point but a 12 yo girl would probably watch the games her brother and family do. has she asked but you refused to take her? who bought the jersey for her? is it the same team as yours or your dad’s etc?
maybe when she is older and wiser she will go along to a game =)
Chris said | October 29th 2009 @ 9:39am | Report comment
Obviously she doesn’t get to the games by herself, but strangely enough (as we live in Sydney) she supports the Titans. My point is that despite the fact she plays soccer the net revenue the FFA will make out of her existence is $0.
whiskeymac said | October 29th 2009 @ 9:52am | Report comment
So Chris is there someone cute on the Titan team she and her mates like? Not to belittle anyones reasons for supporting a club but to chose a new team 1000kms away….why? My wife “supports” Liverpool FC. why? because Harry played there (and she now fancies pretty boy Torres). would your sister go and watch Beckham play?
well if she is playing she mst pay registration fees, state body gets that and it goes back into the game (or their coffers more likely) but you are absolutely right in saying FFA isn’t getting the most out of it’s participation rates. if people like the game enough to play it, why dont they like it enough to watch it?
the media?
the entrenched views of the game?
the standard of the HAL?
lack of grass roots by SFC in the past (considering you are a sydnesider)?
Chris said | October 29th 2009 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
Wouldn’t the rego fees (which wouldn’t be much more than $50) be covering the cost of the playing gear, ground hire and not much more? I wouldn’t have thought the FAA or States bodies would get much of a profit out of it – if any.
AndyRoo said | October 29th 2009 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
The FFA do take a levy from the Fees, and if she plays in NSW there are a lot of associations sitting on a bundle of cash.
It really needs to be cleaned up so hopfully the 200 million the AFL are pumping into the area wakes them up.
whiskeymac said | October 29th 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
Chris, NSW state body (i think) is relatively well off – for example Football NSW is proposing to build a new $40 million state of the art sporting complex in Riverstone West (located North-West of Sydney) which should all be completed by late 2011.
i think they have some money (and am vaguelyaware Craig Fossie always suggests they are better at taking money thanre-investing it)
Redb said | October 29th 2009 @ 10:19am | Report comment
The Titans are a very well marketed team. They tick a lot of boxes.
whiskeymac said | October 29th 2009 @ 2:23pm | Report comment
no doubt but… in Sydney?
Robbo said | October 29th 2009 @ 2:32pm | Report comment
I suspect its because they have a nice colour scheme more than anything.
AndyRoo said | October 29th 2009 @ 2:34pm | Report comment
Then Chris should do the right think and turn her into an Eels supporter.
Michael said | October 29th 2009 @ 1:21pm | Report comment
Who bought her ticket to the NRL game? Who was watching the NRL game when she wanted to watch it? Who bought her NRL jersey.
It is clear the parents want her to be an NRL fan, and it is this brainwashing that made me an AFL fan back in the day, until I made the choice for myself.
James said | October 29th 2009 @ 9:43am | Report comment
I like this article in that is raises some good discussion points. More so than Paul J’s NRL one which is fundamentally flawed on many levels. Qustion v statement. “Will footbal overtake…?” as opposed to NRL “Will become the biggest…”
Gweeds said | October 29th 2009 @ 10:18am | Report comment
God..hasn’t this topic being done to death?
OK – Let me state what I think.
1) Yes, I agree with simonjzw that football is not going to become our no.1 code. AFL is, and will remain the most popular code in the states of Victoria, South Australia, Western Australia, Tasmania and the Northern Territory. The NRL is and will remain the most popular code in NSW and Queensland.
2) Football is or can become the second most popular code in all states. Please correct me if I am wrong but would I be right to say that Melbourne Storm and Melbourne Victory are supported at about the same level in Melbourne? I am not sure how much inroads Sydney Swans has done in NSW overall. I would venture (and please correct me again if I am wrong) that football is still more popular in that state than AFL (if you consider that there will be four A-League teams in that state)
3) I disagree with simonkzw that “A lot has been said and written about the AFL’s push into Western Sydney. But you can be assured that team will attract crowds better than the most popular A-League team in its first season in the AFL.”
I am a Melbournian so again I can’t vouch for it. But i reckon that an AFL team will struggle in Western Sydney. Yes they will get a good crowd at first. But I think that they will follow the pattern of some A-League teams after a couple of years that attendances will drop after the novelty has worn off (which happened to the Sydney Swans in the early years). Of course the AFL is cashed up, so it will be able to support the team whatever happens. Lets’ remember that ‘The Iron Chef’ still outrates the AFL in Sydney.
Football will follow the pattern of Rugby Union and the Olympics where when the National Team plays many people will follow, but when they don’t they will continue to follow the sports they always have followed, which is mainly the AFL and the NRL.
However I would also say this. The amount of bicodal people will increase (especially young people) that is people who are confortable to follow both football and other codes.
Dom ROmeo said | October 29th 2009 @ 10:55am | Report comment
Hey i like the iron chef, good show
aljay said | October 29th 2009 @ 10:20am | Report comment
Growing commercial sponsorship – check
Well known international stars – check
Much higher salaries than local football codes – check
Massive participation rates among local youth population – check
Some success for Australia in international competitions – check
Yep, basketball in the nineties was being talked about in glowing terms. Soccer, take note.
Griffo said | October 29th 2009 @ 2:19pm | Report comment
From memory basketball shot itself in the foot when it decided to revoke franchise licences and hand them over to other ‘markets’ that had greater (economic) potential. Basketball since then has been dying a slow death.
FFA take note of that – taking ‘franchise’ literally is never a good thing.
Football presence is part marketing, part community involvement (by the clubs and by the people). There is little advertising of HAL right now compared to other codes. Perhaps FFA isn’t as flushed with money for advertising space for greater newspaper/media presence. They could certainly do better and will need to for people to ‘think’ more about the HAL and football, and think more of attending.
Maybe football doesn’t need to be No. 1, just a very close second. Too early to tell. Need another 10 to 15 years to gauge that. FFA have a lot of work to do.
md said | October 29th 2009 @ 10:22am | Report comment
If football continues to provide the defining sporting moments of our lifetime, it will become the most popular sport.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26177250-5019258,00.html
QED.
Football has only begun to tap its potential in Australia and leverage off the international nature of the game, whereas NRL and AFL are at saturation point.
FWIW, my guess is that football will probably overtake union within the next 5 years, which is spreading itself thinner and thinner, at the same time as losing schoolground popularity and .:. future players.
The AFL has the benefit of being fairly well run and will be Melbourne’s #1 sport indefinately. What NRL will look like in 5 years time is anyone’s guess with News packing up and leaving, so the rest of Australia is probably up for grabs. But the codes can happily co-exist as any pommie northerner will tell you.
Cheers
md
Michael said | October 29th 2009 @ 1:24pm | Report comment
Great quote about potential of international nature of the game.
The effects of large school participation on the professional game will only be seen 10-20 years down the track, when there is a lack of quality players coming through the NRL ranks (assuming football takes away from it) and when those lifelong supporters of clubs stop going (death by old age) and aren’t replaced by new ones.
AndyRoo said | October 29th 2009 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
Michael, Football has been number one participation wise in NSW since about 1930 and so far hasn’t really hurt the NRL quality wise.
Gary said | October 29th 2009 @ 10:23am | Report comment
A lot of you just don’t get that in sports mad Australia a significant proportion of the population follow more than one code of football. No code will ever be completely dominant.
AFL is a unique code that will always have a following. The only threat to League is Rugby at the moment the ARU is in such a shambles that is not going to happen in the near future. The round ball version of football does not appeal as a replacement to those who like full body contact. These people may follow soccer but it will be as well as, not instead of the rugby codes.
Joe FC said | October 29th 2009 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
It would appear Simon that after reading a lot of “blah blah blah” you’ve now taken to writing it. It’s a mistake to put pen to paper when you have nothing sensible to say.
Peter said | October 29th 2009 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
Spot on Joe,
I wish I could get those 60secs back it took of my life, reading another snore piece.
mahony said | October 29th 2009 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
The football landscape in this country will be very different in 20 years – I have no doubts about it. As I have stated all along, only Rugby Union will suffer massively, League will likely stagnate and AFL will always be string. There will be a new second sport (in narrow commercial terms) – football.
whiskeymac said | October 29th 2009 @ 2:07pm | Report comment
why union?
why any of them actually?
why will peope stop watching a aprticular game or code?
its fantastical to think they will and IMO it would be terrible for the average (non fanatical) supporter if they did. dont we want a rich sporting landscape with variety and the ability to beat everyone else, especially the Poms, at any and every game we do? Cricket, Union, Football, League, Swimming, Cycling… so long as there is a chance of getting one over them. or NZ. or RSA then there will be an interest. As union provides a good forum to achieve international glory (91 in England, 99 and telling the ABs 4 more years in 2003) i cant see it massively suffering. one of Union’s strengths is the socioeconomic people it attracts – advertisers love them because, by on large they are middle class and buy expensive stuff. will this suddenly change in 20 years? the wallabies maybe struggling but the game internationally is doing well. if they get a few good runs and turn things around the bandwagoners will be back, the media will love them and they will sell some more shirts.
what may occur is abit more of a cyclcal support as floating supporters shift allegiances in line with big events – Swans in Sydney winning = Swan gets media; Wallabies win something (bloodyslow or tri or WC) then people dust off the scarfs and beanies, Scceroos do well then we all learn dutch for a few weeks…
for football it means they are part of the landscape – being 2nd choice throughout the country as some state is fantastic compared to 5 year ago but for me thats missing the point – because to have a solid, secure national league, ffa cup and competitive international team with good players coming through a professional system – just like the other codes – is no small achievement.
Roger said | October 29th 2009 @ 2:18pm | Report comment
I agree that football will never ‘take over’ AFL and NRL, but who says that it has to? Football will continue to grow and become stronger, and I see no reason why we can’t have strong support for one more football code in a great sporting nation like Australia.
Also, I’ll echo others sentiments – I’m not sure that I agree with the ‘tone’ of this article.
Paul J said | October 29th 2009 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
Apologies for simplifying this but i’ve always believed that soccer was never close to being the dominent sport in Australia, US, Canada, & New Zealand because those coutries for whatever reason much preferred full contact or collision sports – NRL & AFL, NFL, NHL, and Rugby.
Junior participation numbers for soccer in Australia is far higher than other codes but a lot of this is due to the ’soccer mum’ influence. When Aussies get into their teenage or adult years they migrate to the footy codes that have the biff.
danwighton said | November 2nd 2009 @ 5:39pm | Report comment
I think its not only the biff factor, but a big reason why soccer wont be the most popular is that Australians like to watch and support something that is an example of the highest level of the game.
A reason that NRL, AFL and Cricket are so popular is that Australia is dominant, and the local leagues are the best examples of the sport anywhere in the world. I think thats why we support RU and Soccer only at a national level – And more people would casually follow the Premier League than the A league. Probably a large reason for the decline in basketball’s popularity.
Robbos said | November 2nd 2009 @ 6:02pm | Report comment
There is no doubt what you say is true.
But then you could put up a fairly good argument that NRL, AFL & even cricket, we are the best because of the lack of competition anywhere else. Similiarly how Australia easily tops the Commonwealth games & don’t dominate in the Olypmics.
danwighton said | November 3rd 2009 @ 8:21pm | Report comment
Absolutely – while Australia has been world champions of several things, we tend to do well in and support only the games that we play (which sounds cyclical, and is, but is a self perpetuating phenomenon!).
The only two global sports are athletics and soccer, and we suck at both of those. As tennis has become more and more global in recent years the amount of Australians at the top level has decreased.
We have at certain times been world champs at several sports, but in most we dont have many competitors:
swimming (from around 5 nations, realistically), Rugby League (three nations), Union (around 5 nations), Cricket (eight nations).
Don said | October 29th 2009 @ 3:44pm | Report comment
I don’t really care if AFl/NRL stays as major sports. What Football fans want is fair coverage, not repeatedly being treated by the AFL/NRL and their media cronies as the enemy and as 2nd-class citizens, and with some equivalent of media coverage. And let us have the World Cup. That’s it.
Pippinu said | October 29th 2009 @ 4:50pm | Report comment
oh, oh – victim card alert – victim card alert – victim card alert….
Norm said | October 29th 2009 @ 5:31pm | Report comment
That alert never seems to work against you.
David said | November 2nd 2009 @ 3:00pm | Report comment
Ok This is the FACTS!!!
The HAL is of a fairly poor standard atm so u can argue it needs time i dont think the HAL will ever be massive i reckon it will prob end up at around an average crowds of 15000-30000 between all clus once full up and running.
The socceroos however are already more popular in my opinion then any other international team Most of there matches are on Cable TV or really l8 at night and u can ask almost any lover of sport and they will be able to tell u who we playedlast who we play next and that we are in the world cup.
Everyone follows the socceroos as long as they continue to qualify for th world cup there popularity will grow the whole world competes in Football ’soccer’ n takes it very seriously Aussie want to be part of that.
If the socceroos were on Free to Air like the Aus vs Urg game was the whole country would watch selling the socceroos our to foxtell was the FFA stupidest move but the HAL will prob never get bigger then AFL n NRL unless the stardard raise to a ponit were teams like Arsenal chelsea ect are getting player directly from the HAL
Pippinu said | November 2nd 2009 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
David
Norm is a strict educationalist, so I will correct you before he does so in his inimitable way:
These are the facts.
Norm said | November 2nd 2009 @ 5:16pm | Report comment
I’m impressed pippy boy.