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October 30th 2009 @ 1:32am
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Barnes rolls ankle, grand slam tour in doubt
Berrick Barnes is unlikely to know before the weekend whether he will miss the Wallabies‘ grand slam tour of the UK and Ireland after being ruled out of Saturday’s Bledisloe Cup Test against the All Blacks with an ankle injury.
In a massive blow to Australia’s chances of avoiding their first 4-0 series whitewash against New [...]
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(57)
LeftArmSpinner said | October 30th 2009 @ 5:38am | Report comment
i would have put O’Connor at 12, his long term position. He has played lots of 12 outside giteau. he can tackle and would need to when Nonu comes achargin’.
AAC is a blunted force at 12 and we need him at his best and most influential. I dont suggest that he will give anything other than 100%.
While barnes is a big loss, it will back the team further into a corner. Will they lash out and play some rugby or lie down submissively and humbly?
sportym said | October 30th 2009 @ 8:40pm | Report comment
The biggest waste here is AAC at 12. I would argue that this is his weakest position, and he has been exposed there is defense cause he does not play there in S14 or wallabies generally. AAC in fullback is solid. I am loosing faith in Deans by the day, it is one thing to have a go at players who give up, but picking a team to fail is not better. O’connor is no 15, the All blacks are going to have a field day… Absolute rubbish selections by Deans.
cinematic said | October 30th 2009 @ 6:11am | Report comment
O’Connor on the field in any position is good news for the AB’s.
CraigB said | October 30th 2009 @ 7:08am | Report comment
riddle me this batman… JOC play 12 for the Force outside M Giteau AND inside Cross. His form in said position was good enough to warrant Wallabies squad selection. Then having made that squad, selectors pick him to play 15. While there he has played badly, particularly against the AB’s. He gets dropped to the bench, then the incumbant 12 gets injured. Instead of replacing him with another 12 who has played with both the 5/8 and 13 ALL YEAR at S14 level, we instead put JOC back to fullback and play our previously selected fullback at 12 which is probably is his weakest position. EXPLAIN!!!!
cinetmatic – of course it is when you play a bloke out of position all year. I can say the same about Carter as long as they play him in the tight 5 or McCaw playing on the wing…
Greg Russell said | October 30th 2009 @ 11:46am | Report comment
The traffic at 12 in international rugby is considerably heavier than in S14 rugby (because the players are bigger and game-plans are more confined), and Deans obviously thinks O’Connor is too defensively frail to handle this traffic. After all, Ma’a Nonu will be the opposite 12.
That said, I agree with your comment Craig. I would take the risk and play O’Connor at 12, hoping that the positives (as pointed out by you) outweigh the negatives. If the worst came to the worst, one could try to “hide” him on defence by swapping him with AAC at 15. This is an old ploy, which in fact was first developed by Deans himself at the Crusaders, where he would swap Mehrtens (10) and Leon MacDonald (15) in defence.
Hammer said | October 30th 2009 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
“The traffic at 12 in international rugby is considerably heavier than in S14 rugby (because the players are bigger and game-plans are more confined” …. what Nonu doesn’t play S14 then – or does he just get bigger for internationals ..
fox said | October 30th 2009 @ 3:12pm | Report comment
Ha ha. My thoughts exactly.
Lazlo said | October 30th 2009 @ 7:10am | Report comment
The Wallabies haven’t lashed out in years. They haven’t been submissive either, just dumb.
Agree with you about JOC at 12. AAC is the best FB we have, and Gits is the best centre we have. Naturally, neither of them ends up playing in their best spot. But then the team is coached by a guy who played Smith at 8 when Eddie Jones showed the world that it wasn’t a wise move.
Justin said | October 30th 2009 @ 7:26am | Report comment
Agree with all the posts above about JOC being at 12. How farkin thick is Drongo? I have just about had enough of his selections, he couldnt pick his own a$$
Nicol'arse said | October 30th 2009 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
Beautifully said J-bird. Here, here mate!!
Bill said | October 30th 2009 @ 7:25am | Report comment
Couldn’t agree more CraigB. O’Connor has shown he is out of his depth playing at fullback in internationals especially against the ABs. Alternatively playing him at 12 with his Force teammates beside him seemed a logical solution to the Barnes injury.
fox said | October 30th 2009 @ 7:38am | Report comment
LAS et al, I agree! AAC is not a 12 and O’Connor is the closest we have to a second ball player. He’s accustomed to the positioned, played well there outside Gits (and inside Cross) at the Force, so much so that he was heralded as one of our outstanding players in the competition, and is clearly labouring at fullback. Then again, the final selection has not been made. Robbie, you still have some time to intervene with some common sense. Don’t waste it!
Harry said | October 30th 2009 @ 7:51am | Report comment
Agree 100% wih the comments above. I am now very pessimistic for the Wallabies on Saturday and in Europe.
This crazy notion of O’Conner at 15 – despite the clear evidence, and the stated desire of the boy – that 12 is his best position, is causing massive damage to the Wallabies and to, lets not forget, a potential superstar in JOC – I believe he has the potential to be as good as and have an illustrious career as Tim Horan. But he is being incredibly badly handled by the Wallabies.
There were 2 clear and indisputable lessons from Wellington:
1) The Wallabies need to attack the breakdown in greater numbers, and generally harden up.
2) JOC is NOT a test quality fullback.
The ABs game plan and areas where they can attack weaknesses isn’t going to be to hard to figure out … they’ll need big whitebaords in the NZ dressing room. Let us hope we keep it close. I for one will be relieved to hear the usual losing piffle afterwards about “heading in the right direction” and “can’t fault the effort”. Happy if we lose by 10 points or less and stay competitive and in the match for an hour at least.
Pete said | October 30th 2009 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
JOC is not a test quality number 12 either. I hardly think its the place to try him for the first time at 12 opposite Nonu. If he failed he’d never get back up again. At 15, although I agree his Welligton performance was poor, he knows what to expect and will deal with it accordingly. I’d rather AAC tackling Nonu than JOC (at this point in his career). I hate the idea of swapping positions based on attack/defense. If there is a sudden change in play, everyone is out of position.
Justin said | October 30th 2009 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
For all those saying JOC wont be able to handle Nonu, are you sure with the defensive patterns in use he will be his man? I would think that Gits will be covering Nonu alot with Pocock taking Carter, particularly from set piece.
Pete said | October 30th 2009 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
Good point. I pity who ever has to mark Nonu. Lets hope he (Nonu) has a bad hair day and decides not to run out…
Sylvester said | October 30th 2009 @ 9:14pm | Report comment
You’d expect the defence to slide up and out, especially from set piece as you say. However, that’s a relatively small part of the game compared to open phase play, and you’d expect Nonu to be targeting him in all no set piece situations. In saying that, there’s so much gang tackling I doubt he’d be left too isolated anyway.
Armchair-critic said | October 30th 2009 @ 8:15am | Report comment
This injury severely ruins the balance of the Wallabies..
Without Barnes the midfield seems frail
I think the choice to go with AAC would be based more on defence than attack. Particularly given Cross’ weaknesses in defence. I just think that with Carter and Nonu running at that channel AAC is a safer option than JOC. He provides a bit more presence and strength. Perhaps they could switch on attack?
Harry said | October 30th 2009 @ 8:22am | Report comment
Just to remind you Armchar Critic, the last time AAC and Cross played as centres – a supposedly strong defensive unit – the Boks carved us up through that channel and scored 2 easy tries. Yet what happens? Deans put them together again … why doesn’t our highly paid coaching staff pay heed to this?
Armchair-critic said | October 30th 2009 @ 8:30am | Report comment
Harry was just about to edit that into my comment!!
However, I would still be inclined to have AAC in the front line of defence ahead of JOC and i dont really have a reason why..
My first choice would actually be to put Quade Cooper at 10, Giteau at 12 but that would be asking a lot of Cooper.
I would even be happy with Cross at 12, Ioane at 13 and JOC on the wing.
Either way the side is going to be far weaker than with Barnes in it.
Harry said | October 30th 2009 @ 8:34am | Report comment
I would have JOC at 12 for the weekend test. He’s actually pretty strong and a good defender one-on-one…. as distinct from Beale and Cooper (defensive capability), defence is bothe these players major weakness. And at least there is a hint of combination there from the Force days … we just can’t expect these units to jell instantly.
Will be watching with trepidation.
Rah Rah Rasputin said | October 30th 2009 @ 8:44am | Report comment
Agree with Armchair. I wouldhave thought Quade would of been next off the list at flyhalf/ inside centre. In terms of attack, I thought he would have posed a few problamos for the AB.
BUT the original make up of the bench does suggest that o’connor was cover for barnes/ giteau. He is even list on the ARU website as flyhalf/ centre.
Why nto just play him there? Is Deans that worried about Nonu? The article in the Australian woudl suggest so.
I’d rather see o’connor there then at fullback. I wonder what position he has been trainiing for in the B team?
Virgil said | October 30th 2009 @ 9:00am | Report comment
Devastated. Bloody devastated.
mudskipper said | October 30th 2009 @ 9:14am | Report comment
AAC is Robbie Deans Mr. Flexible. It’s a shame Deans doesn’t back a few more guys. He put Copper on the bench to play flyhalf late a Giteau will slip to 12. If the Wallabies get another injury in the centres Tyrone Smith will have to step up and he has got the goods…
Wallabies have lost 2 centres in two days… what’s going on at training?
Jameswm said | October 30th 2009 @ 9:26am | Report comment
Bugger.
Blinky Bill from Bellingen said | October 30th 2009 @ 9:59am | Report comment
Boy oh boy. It was hard for me to get excited before these injuries but seeing the replacements makes me want to just yawn.
When I heard of Barnsey’s injury I was kind of hoping that Robbie would seize the opportunity & surprise us with some ‘left field’ selections as a pointer to the future. Probably agree that Gits is best at 10 now that Barnes is out, but surely this is an opportunity to really back some of the younger blokes and give them a run. I am assuming they’re good enough and that’s why they’re there, but maybe I’ve got that wrong too.
Greg Russell said | October 30th 2009 @ 11:51am | Report comment
The many advocates of Barnes – in terms of both playing at 10 and leading – should take note of what has happened here, because it’s not uncommon with him. I am reminded of Andre Agassi’s quote about Richard Krajicek: “That guy only has to look at a tennis court to get injured.” Barnes is a very fine player, but it’s not wise to have a leader and/or a chief playmaker who is so prone to injury, because it is disruptive to have to change a 10 or a captain, and it is extremely so at the last minute (as in this case).
Of course Barnes has to be selected in the team whenever possible, but have him at 12, and don’t have him as captain or vice-captain.
Who Needs Melon said | October 30th 2009 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
Yeah but, Greg, to be fair Andre might have been high on Crystal Meth when he said it.
fox said | October 30th 2009 @ 3:14pm | Report comment
How many injuries must one have to be labelled “prone”? It’s an ankle injury, very common and could have happened to anyone (except George Smith who apparently is actually rugby’s version of Superman – invincible).
Hoy said | October 30th 2009 @ 3:47pm | Report comment
I would label Barnes injury prone.
He is prone to going down during games, and missing games due to injury. Sure, great talent, but jeez he is frail.
Shoulder, concussion, ankle etc. He has missed a few games in the past to injury and I have commented so as well.
Hammer said | October 30th 2009 @ 12:06pm | Report comment
Deans is paranoid about NZ … looks like he’s flopped straight into damage limitation mode – perhaps to try and defend a rapidly declining reputation enough to hold on to some hope of taking of the AB’s at some stage in the future …
Nicol'arse said | October 30th 2009 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
“Damage limitation mode” against the AB’s is equivalent to capitulation!! The best defence in the world can not last for 80mins against a side that just loves to keep attacking all game.
Our hope of success must be forlorn at best. But if it is to happen… the forwards need to play as well as they played in Brisbane or better.
Horwill has been a passenger all season. Its time for him to step up. As for Chisolm… I’d rather see Dean Mumm out there (even though he offers less height in the lineout). At least he has a red hot GO… unlike Chisolm (who’s another passenger) in the typical of mould of big soft Wallaby second rowers. Not since Vickerman have we had a 2nd rower who plays intensely. And we miss it badly. Those boys in the engine room need to fire up big time!! And that includes Palu!!
I hear the argument that AAC is a better (defensive) proposition at 12 than JOC to handle Nonu… but I don’t buy it. Have a word in the backrowers ears to support JOC at 12 and I reckon that channel will be sound enough defensively. And then we’ll at least have more attacking flair with AAC at 15.
God help us….
Who Needs Melon said | October 30th 2009 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
This seems to be the norm for Barnes unfortunately and, unless he can rectify it somehow (e.g. talking to Larkham?) is going to be a MAJOR impediment to his rugby career.
And I agree with others that playing JOC at 12 would seem to make most sense. I’m sick of us playing players out of position in an effort to get ‘the best players’ on the field at the same time. We’ve been trying that for far, FAR too long. It doesn’t work.
It should be a simple equation:
1) Pick the best 12 in Oz to be your 12,
2) If he’s injured, pick your 2nd best 12,
3) And so on…
‘Creative’ selections are all well and good and make for interesting discussions… but rarely work.
Blinky Bill from Bellingen said | October 30th 2009 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
WNM – ” It should be a simple equation:
1) Pick the best 12 in Oz to be your 12,
2) If he’s injured, pick your 2nd best 12,
3) And so on…
Agree with what you say. However, isn’t our problem that our best 10 is Barnes (now injured again) and our next best is Gits? So what’s better having Gits at 12 and working with a replacement at 10 (Cooper, O’Connor or Beale) or shifting Gits into 10 and having the problem further out?
For mine I’d love to see Gits at 12 (that’s his best position IMHO) but the if the new 10 doesn’t deliver the pill, direct traffic and take smart options it’s all for what?
Hey what’s it matter anyway? Robbie had made his mind up before the injury that Gits was to be at 10.
The Other Reds Fan. said | October 30th 2009 @ 12:52pm | Report comment
We have lost Barnes and Mortlock and possible replacements Cummins and Horne before a game is played. Not many international teams could lose their equivalent players and retain their strenghth, but for us it is worse due to our lack of depth. Get Mark Gasnier on the phone. Where is Will Chambers? What about that big winger from Randwick?
I generally agree with the comments about AAC and O’Connor, but what Australia has missed in recent seasons (with the exception of Mortlock) is a guy who is going to smash through the opposition’s backline and offload to runners. Rather than replace Barnes with another ball player (e.g. Cooper or O’Connor) I think that is what Deans is looking for by having AAC at 12 and why Cross, Hynes and Digby are already there.
Before we were a good chance of losing, now we are definitely going to lose.
Bay35Pablo said | October 30th 2009 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
I’d put Cooper on the park before O’Connor, given previous form.
Daniel J said | October 30th 2009 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
it will be 4-0 in the Bledisloe, our back line was the only hope we had, agreed JOC should be back at 12 with a solid defender at 15 with AAC.
However, would be interesting to see how the forward play will respond to this….
Jameswm said | October 30th 2009 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
Pablo’s the first to say it.
If Barnes was going to play at fly-half with a 12 on his back, then the left field option is to slot Quade Cooper in at 10 and Gits to 12, or if you insist on leaving Gits at 10, put KB into 12.
Geez starting Kurtley at 12 in a Bledisloe game would give the country the jitters before the match!
And yes the other more logical option was to put JOC at 12, given he, Cross and Gits played the same positions at the Force. Then you can keep your best available fullback at fullback.
I’m sure they’d be worried about having Gits and JOC there for lack of size countering Nonu and the big AB backrowers.
Pete said | October 30th 2009 @ 2:49pm | Report comment
May be we should if Tahu has any plans for the weekend…
Justin said | October 30th 2009 @ 8:17pm | Report comment
Its not like Barnes is much bigger. Beale at 12 in a Test match? No thank-you, doesnt deserve a start at S14 level sometimes…
Brett McKay said | October 30th 2009 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
the first today perhaps James, there was plenty of suggestion of this yesterday when news of Barnes going down first surfaced. Cooper to 10 or 12 was the common theme…
Dean Pantio said | October 30th 2009 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
If you’re relying on Cooper you’ve got issues.
There isn’t a fit, stand out, 1st five to push Gits into 2nd five, so the best option is to find a good 2nd five. Smith fits the bill both offensively and defensively, but he has only just joined the squad and the coaching staff may feel it’s not enough time to prepare for a test.
Westy said | October 30th 2009 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
Cooper’s defensive frailties are even obvious at Super 14 level. It has been a sore point in his career to date. I am no slavish fan of JOC either but to query a weakness in his defence without highlighting the same weakness in a competing player is not wise.
formeropenside said | October 30th 2009 @ 2:55pm | Report comment
This is basically a pointless exhibition game, so Cooper into 10 and Gits to 12 would have been a interesting decision. Even 10 and 12 vice versa would do. If Gits is going to refuse to play anywhere but 10 (when he lacks the skills to manage a game successfully) then that should be known now.
I dont think O’Connor is a 15, so if he has to be in the side (which for some reason he apparently does) then I’d play him at 12 rather than 15.
stuff happens said | October 30th 2009 @ 4:26pm | Report comment
Much of this will be ho hum unless the pack plays out of its skin for 80+.Can they do it? I’m not hopeful even.So come on lads surprise us all.
As for the great GS on the bench….
AndyS said | October 30th 2009 @ 8:15pm | Report comment
Apparently Matt Toomua has been called in. Unlikely to feature in the Test teams, but a great opportunity for him. There are plenty with high hopes for the lad, he’s coming off some high quality game time in SA, so who knows…
Justin said | October 30th 2009 @ 8:19pm | Report comment
Quaity player, has Test match 5/8 written all over him…
Armchair-critic said | October 30th 2009 @ 8:20pm | Report comment
Yes he seems to be a bit more composed than Beale and Cooper
http://news.rugbyheaven.com.au/breaking-news-sport/toomua-called-into-wallabies-squad-20091030-hpt8.html
Bay35Pablo said | October 30th 2009 @ 8:30pm | Report comment
Why Toomua? Why not Halangahu? At least he has the experience, and isn’t too small.
sportym said | October 30th 2009 @ 8:44pm | Report comment
I would argue that Toomua did a great job at the end of the s14 last year. Defensively he is solid and has great ability to control the game, I would even play him at 10 for the brumbies next year and gits at 12. This guys is really worth developing.
Chris said | October 30th 2009 @ 8:47pm | Report comment
As a Brumbies fan I wouldn’t even trust Toomua in the Brumbies 22 – let alone the most important position on the field. He is way to inconsistent, has a shocking kicking game and is a horrible decision maker. I wouldn’t even trust him to run a suburban club back-line.
Justin said | October 30th 2009 @ 10:04pm | Report comment
mmm…
Ben J said | October 30th 2009 @ 11:40pm | Report comment
He did a more than reasonable job with Western Province in the Currie Cup, he created good space and had a hand in a couple of tries. I would hardly call WP a suburban club backline, he played in front of 30k plus crowds on numerous occasions and made quite an impression in the Cape.
Chris said | October 30th 2009 @ 8:54pm | Report comment
There are plenty of reasons not to like Toomua. His size isn’t one of them. Anyone saying a player is “too small” is exposing themselves as a pretty horrible analyst. It is a weak argument used when one couldn’t be bothered to name actual reasons.
Besides – your logic falls apart when you consider that Toomua is 182cm (6ft) and 90kg. I would have thought that was more than big enough – especially considering Giteau is 178cm and 85kg.
Knives Out said | October 31st 2009 @ 2:22am | Report comment
‘Anyone saying a player is “too small” is exposing themselves as a pretty horrible analyst. It is a weak argument used when one couldn’t be bothered to name actual reasons.’
That’s a great response. I’m going to use that in future if you don’t mind, Chris.
Dave said | October 31st 2009 @ 8:01am | Report comment
We know without a doubt now that the wallabies cannot possibly win this match. We can be 100% certain of that. If for some unknown reason our midfield defence does hold (and the one game they put AAC and Cross together it didn’t), can someone please tell me how on earth we are supposed to score ANY points? Please.
We have 1 ball player who is a centre playing 10. Ione and Hynes are dangerous, but if they happen to touch the ball in the entire match, it will be a small miracle. Giteau doesn’t have a long pass, while AAC and Cross dont know the meaning of the word pass…
There are only 2 options. Move JOC into 12. The combination already exists, and he has made it to this level playing 12. The other is to move Gits to 12, and have Cooper play 10. That combination saved us from complete humiliation in Perth when he came on.
Surely blind freddy can see that AAC at 12 cannot work. I honestly dont even feel like watching the tour now with these idiotic selections. We know the Wallabies CANNOT win by picking such a headless team. Its so frustrating. AAC had an average S14 season at best – and this is coming from a Brumbies supporter who has been a cheerleader fro AAC since some amazing starts in 2005. He is a solid player, but not world class, and cant perform miracles. Let him play to his strengths – same with JOC.
We may fluke a grinding win on tour, but the hopes of a Grand Slam are now gone. UNLESS that is, Deans picks players in their correct positions, and gives us a chance. Ione is back, Mortlock soon to follow – that makes the Wallabies DANGEROUS – really dangerous. We have not had these two this season to tear apart defences and let our speedy backs feed off them. None of that is any good if we dont have a 10 and 12 who can give them the ball (It goes without saying that the forwards need to put in enough effort to give some opportunities to unleash our backs)
Dave said | October 31st 2009 @ 8:13am | Report comment
The Wallbies cannot win this match wiith this team. That is 100% certain. If by some strange reason our defence with AAC and Cross does hold (and it was terrible in Perth), then come someone please tell me how on earth we are going to score ANY points? Please.
Ione and Hynes are threats to any team, but it would be a miracle is either touch the ball during the entire match. We have a centre playing 10 who does not have a long pass, while AAC and Cross dont know the meaning of the word pass…
The are only 2 options. JOC goes to 12. Its an established partnership from the force, and where JOC made his name. Give him a chance. The other option is to move Giteau to 12, and have Cooper play 10. That combination saved us from complete humilation in Perth.
If these idiotic selections from Deans continues, then I honestly dont even see the point of watching the Grand Slam. We may fluke a grinding win or two, but thats it. Considering that Ione is back and Mortlock is soon to follow, we have a real chance of having a great tour. Those two being available for the entire Tri-Nations would have made the world of difference. Yet even their return means nothing unless they can receive quality ball. That cannot happen wth AAC at 12.
We know we cant win tonight anyway, so what have we got to lose Deans?