By Mark Geenty
November 2nd 2009 @ 6:38am
Get a Roar profile
View The Roar's top rugby union writers.
New podcast from RuggaMatrix, with Munster Assistant Coach Laurie Fisher as guest. Listen now.
Love new art, fashion, music? Check out Aussie site which unearths all things cool and creative.
Related coverage
Hansen hits back at Deans’ breakdown claims
All Blacks assistant coach Steve Hansen fired back at his old sparring partner Robbie Deans on Sunday after the frustrated Wallabies coach accused their opponents of cynical play not befitting the occasion.
The All Blacks’ 32-19 win at Tokyo’s National Stadium on saturday night made it seven in a row against Deans’ Wallabies, equalling the trans-Tasman [...]
This article is over 2000 days old and has been trimmed.
Going to the Waratahs v Brumbies blockbuster at ANZ Stadium, Saturday 24 April? If you're keen to meet up with other Roarers, register you interest and we'll keep you informed on the place to meet. Register now.
Get Australia's best Rugby opinion emailed daily.
Like this content? Buzz it up!
Free Email updates:
Our daily emails are only sent if there is content for the sport or that author. You can subscribe to multiple daily emails; or get the daily Roar email with all our content in it. We value privacy. More...
(36)
andrew said | November 2nd 2009 @ 7:18am | Report comment
kicked six… including one ridiculous scrum penalty and one incorrect against pocock. Really – the ABs deserved their win. But it is a shame that such a great team has to resort to the slow down tactics to win matches.
Knives Out said | November 2nd 2009 @ 7:47am | Report comment
Because no team ever in the hitory of rugby has ever tried to slow the ball down?! The Australian backs wouldn’t have known what to do with quick ball so as a fan you should be grateful that you didn’t have to see a backline of dolts crabbing across the pitch with dropped passes galore.
Robbie Deans has obviously forgotten that he used to coach McCaw and company.
Jerry said | November 2nd 2009 @ 7:28am | Report comment
Why was the Pocock one incorrect? Didn’t look to me like he came from behind the ball.
Dean Pantio said | November 2nd 2009 @ 7:44am | Report comment
Pocock was rightly penalised. It was harsh as most players and definitely all flankers do it, but he was unfortunate enough to attempt it right in front of the ref. What they do is actually enter from the side but swing their body around so it looks like they’ve come through the gate.
AC said | November 2nd 2009 @ 9:00am | Report comment
It didn’t look like the gate was defined at the time Pocock arrived there because there were no All Blacks on their feet.
Jerry said | November 2nd 2009 @ 10:17am | Report comment
Just cause it’s not a ruck yet, doesn’t mean a player can enter the tackle from where-ever he feels like.
If there’s no team-mates on their feet, you have to enter the tackle from behind the ball which Pocock didn’t do.
CaughtOffside said | November 4th 2009 @ 10:33am | Report comment
the gate is not defined by who is on their feet….. its defined by the players on the ground, tackled player and tackler. Penalty was right.
RugbyThinker said | November 2nd 2009 @ 9:19am | Report comment
Fundamental problem we have is referees are looking to penalise, find fault and show they know Law book instead of trying to let play evolve. In Tokyo Pocock offence was line ball to say least. And when will Rugby adapt the atitude that attacking team should have beneift of the doubt…one thing league has got right.
In Tokyo ABs again got away with muder. McCaw is a genuis but he has lived offside most of his career. Refs now have his number but Kiwis have been smart this year and AB coaches have responded by making sure their number two player at breakdown goes off his feet to cause problems for opposition. How many times do you see scrumhalf trying to clear ball with an AB next to ball? Just like in Sydney ABs killed ball all night. Sure Wallabies in Tokyo got four early penalties but where were they….all in the 22/danger zone. AB mantra is kill/slow ball down and give away penalty instead of a try. Great tactics if refs let you get away with it…which they are. Where are the yellow cards??
Jerry said | November 2nd 2009 @ 10:22am | Report comment
“In Tokyo Pocock offence was line ball to say least. And when will Rugby adapt the atitude that attacking team should have beneift of the doubt…”
You know, those two sentences are a tad contradictory – Pocock was on defence, remember.
Knives Out said | November 2nd 2009 @ 10:23am | Report comment
The referee constantly allowed ball to be played from collapsed scrums and he also gave the Hynes ‘try’. Hardly Mr. P. Dantic.
Dean Pantio said | November 2nd 2009 @ 10:30am | Report comment
You call yourself RugbyThinker..? Do you actually believe that the only team that infringes to give away three points instead of a possible seven is the All Blacks? You honestly don’t think the Wallabies do the same? Just how did the All Blacks manage to kick six penalties? Did the ref get those wrong too?
I shouldn’t be surprised that a good proportion of rugby related posts afte the weekend are; All Blacks cheat, McCaw is always offside, blah blah blah. If you didn’t see the game, you’d only have to look at The Roar to know the Wallabies lost.
RugbyThinker said | November 2nd 2009 @ 11:08am | Report comment
Obviously lot of one-eyed AB supporters around today!!!. Of course the ABs do nothing wrong and McCaw is never offside? As I said good luck to him if he doesn’t get caught. ABs deserved win but whistle blowing is stifling game. These issues are not just about Bledisloe Cup matches as most test matches are crap these days cos of pedantic refs who are inconsistent. IRB needs to spend big on refereeing development……present pool is poor and little coming through the ranks.
Jerry said | November 2nd 2009 @ 11:15am | Report comment
Hilarious. You’re about the 5th Aussie I’ve seen in the last couple of days who has a monumental whinge about how the AB’s are serial cheaters then accuses people who respond of either being one eyed or whinging.
Dean Pantio said | November 2nd 2009 @ 11:15am | Report comment
The All Blacks were penalised on the weekend. I don’t see anyone suggesting otherwise. What I do see is a bunch of supporters pretending only one team infringed.
Bay35Pablo said | November 2nd 2009 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
Dean, thanks for that light shining out of Richie’s backside, it’s useful to read the rule book with my one eye.
Yes, the ABs cheat. So do the Boks. Clearly systematically at times. You both beat us even at that!!!! We can’t clean out properly, can’t run back line moves properly, and can’t cheat properly.
Terry Kidd said | November 2nd 2009 @ 11:44am | Report comment
G’day Dean and Jerry, I also think the ABs deserved the win and of course all teams try and slow ball delivery down but it was very, very noticeable on Saturday night that AB ball was cleared far more quickly than Wallaby ball. Why? What is it that the ABs are doing different to the Wallabies at the breakdown? Please let me know what you think is being done differently because I was watching intently and all I could see was an AB body, arm or leg obstructing the ball and no one trying to get clear of the ball. My only gripe with the ref was him seemingly doing nothing about it.
reds fan said | November 2nd 2009 @ 11:55am | Report comment
Good luck getting a straight answer on that one Terry.
Dean Pantio said | November 2nd 2009 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
See my response to Hoy on this issue here.
Quite simply, often in a ruck you can be and are trapped, without the ability to move. I’ve no doubt that more often than not, the ability to be trapped and interfere with the free movement of the ball is not accidental. The difference between the All Blacks and the Wallabies is their effectiveness at clearing out opposition bodies at the ruck. That is why the All Blacks get faster ball from their own rucks. Every player clears out, whereas the Wallaby backs seem to believe it’s the responsibility of their forwards only.
Stash said | November 2nd 2009 @ 11:49am | Report comment
As an AB supporter – I saw the ABs get away with a few in the breakdown – particularly offside body position iat the breakdown. It did concede a couple of penalties – but I never heard the ref give final warnings or take McCaw aside to issue his dissatisfaction.
We all know that it is about playing to the ref – at no point has it been the ABs job to play to please Robbie Deans. Deans is cashing in his winning philosophies for a bad loser t-shirt.
All that aside – the better team won on the night – and everyone knows that
Terry Kidd said | November 2nd 2009 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
Yeah I know Reds but thought I would ask anyway. I’m not one for just slinging crap around, I like a bit of analysis and thoughful discussion, and I really would like to see some answers to my question.
Brett McKay said | November 2nd 2009 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
Terry, I think you raise some fair questions, particularly when Adam Thompson was cautioned at least twice early on. It’s a fair assumption that when repeated cautions are issued that further infringements would be dealt with. I’m with you though, the ABs thoroughly deserved the win, so I’ll revert to type to answer one of your questions:
What is it that the ABs are doing different to the Wallabies at the breakdown? Well, “compete” comes to mind….
Terry Kidd said | November 2nd 2009 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
Lol …. nice come back Brett. Ok, I’ll poke one back over the net ….. compete … how?
reds fan said | November 2nd 2009 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
yeah its hard to stay on your feet and cleanout when the person you want to cleanout is spooning the guy he just tackled.
reds fan said | November 2nd 2009 @ 12:40pm | Report comment
I think that the AB’s ruck tactic should be officially known as spooning, and the AB’s henceforth referred to as the Spooners.
Dean Pantio said | November 2nd 2009 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
Pleasing to see rugby is catering to your demographic reds fan.
reds fan said | November 2nd 2009 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
And once again you shine with your sparkling intellect.
Dean Pantio said | November 2nd 2009 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
Not hard in comparison admittedly.
Hermin said | November 2nd 2009 @ 6:55pm | Report comment
Redsfan you got served big time your own attempt at humour got smashed right back at you and it hit you right in the face.
Time to breathe mate and start planning for next year
reds fan said | November 2nd 2009 @ 7:01pm | Report comment
aw gee shucks Hermin… i sure did hey… guffaw guffaw…
Brett McKay said | November 2nd 2009 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
Terry, I have a strict One Snappy Comeback rule in play here – I’ve got nothing!!
And actually, if I did have the answer, then I’d be in the stands hugging Aussie Rob while we sing the Anthem!!
Terry Kidd said | November 2nd 2009 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
Yeah I was a little surprised that Thomson didn’t get a short rest but I was even more amazed when I saw McCaw enter from the side and literally hang over Alexander’s back impeding Genia from getting the ball out …. right in front of the ref and nothing was said …. even Alexander looked up at Lawrence and went WTF???
Having said that though it was generally Thomson and not McCaw who was the serial offender …. although everyone was doing it.
Terry Kidd said | November 2nd 2009 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
Sorry Dean but that might explain about 5% of the occurrences, I certainly saw Wallaby backs clearing out, even Genia on a couple of occasions because he was one of the first there.
Dean Pantio said | November 2nd 2009 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
Wallaby backs don’t do it habitually. Obviously there must have been something said after their no show at the breakdowns in Wellington.
BTW, I saw Wallabies and All Blacks commit penaliseable offences at 93.67% of rucks…
Ben C said | November 2nd 2009 @ 2:34pm | Report comment
Dean
You can prove anything you want with statistics, 78% of all people know that.
Dean Pantio said | November 2nd 2009 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
That was my point Ben.
Ben C said | November 2nd 2009 @ 6:24pm | Report comment
Hi Dean
I was referencing the Simpsons. The episode where Homer forms a vigilante gang and made a similar comment to Kent Brockman about statistics.
Obviously you need to watch more Simpsons.