By Armchair-critic -
November 3rd 2009 @ 2:12am
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What to do with Adam Ashley-Cooper?
Australian rugby union backs Quade Cooper, Adam Ashley-Cooper, James O'Connor, Matt Giteau and Drew Mitchell remove the tape they used to prepare themselves to take on the forwards during a practice session in Sydney on Thursday, July 23, 2009. The Wallabies next match will be against South Africa in Cape Town on August 8. AAP Image/Paul Miller
The 2009 international season has seen the coming of age for Adam Ashley-Cooper. His form has been such that he is undoubtedly the Wallabies’ best back at present.
However, throughout the season, we have seen him in a range of different positions. The number that AAC has on his back has been largely determined by the availability of other members of the squad.
So today I want to discuss where Ashley-Cooper’s best position is.
The fact that AAC has been shifted around this year is largely due to injuries. He started the year in competition for the 15 spot with James O’Connor but quickly proved he was the better choice for fullback.
Then came the injury to Stirling Mortlock in South Africa.
This meant a re-shuffle in the backline, which resulted in AAC being in the No.12 jersey inside Ryan Cross for the match in Perth. In my opinion, this game was Ashley-Cooper’s least effective of the year and seemed to show that he is not a No.12.
However, when he was again placed there for the match in Tokyo, AAC pulled out a sublime performance in a clearly beaten team.
For the latter part of the Tri-Nations AAC was wearing the No.13 jersey and he played particularly well for the Wallabies. So much so that serious questions were being asked around whether or not a fit Stirling Mortlock was good enough to regain his place.
Now to decide which is his best position.
While he had a good game in Tokyo, I believe AAC is not an inside-centre. He doesn’t quite have the kicking and distribution skills needed in such a position.
So it leaves us with centre and fullback.
I personally believe that Australia needs him at 15 rather than 13 but that’s not to say this is his better position. However, it remains to be seen whether Mortlock can recapture some form so perhaps AAC will be needed in the midfield in the near future.
For this tour, Ashley-Cooper’s place in the side is again determined by the number of injuries within the squad.
One would think that Ryan Cross has again played him self out of the side after the weekend’s performance so it leaves us searching for a centre until Mortlock returns for the Ireland match.
There is also the issue of finding a suitable replacement for Barnes at 12.
I think O’Connor has shown that he is not able to perform to his potential when played at fullback so either needs to be benched, or played in his best position at 12. This also leaves a hole at fullback and I would not be playing Turner or Mitchell there.
They, like O’Connor, are too frail as a last line of defence.
Consequently I would put AAC at fullback and leave him there for the rest of the tour. Although he is arguably our best 13, the lack of a suitable replacement at 15 means that he is our best option. Perhaps if Cameron Shephard returns from injury next year and is able to regain his form then he could be an option.
But until then, AAC is my 15.
Finding a midfield replacement is a bit more difficult. If anyone, particularly Tyrone Smith, is able to demand selection through their midweek performance then this could solve the problem.
Otherwise I would be tempted to move Ioane into centre and have O’Connor or Quade Cooper combining with Giteau as the 10/12 combination. This then leaves a wing spot open for Turner, Mitchell or possibly O’Connor if Cooper is preferred at 10/12.
Either way, it is inevitable that there will be a weak link amongst the backline due to the injuries which have hit the midfield.
Let’s just hope that the rest of the backs follow Adam Ashley-Cooper’s lead and start to find some form.
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(78)
Frank O'Keeffe said | November 3rd 2009 @ 3:15am | Report comment
I think 15 is the position from which he can help the Wallabies the most on this Grand Slam tour. I guartentee you the English will be sending some high balls down the field, and the Wallabies will need someone who is absolutely rock solid.
I agree Ashley-Cooper is a much improved player this year. I’d probably rate Berrick Barnes the best Wallabies back, but Ashley-Cooper is up there. He shows tremendous commitment and guts, and as someone who’s criticised him in the past and wanted Ryan Cross at 13, I’m happy to put my hand up and say I got it wrong. However, despite Ashley-Cooper probably being the better outside centre than Cross, I think he can do the most for the Wallabies at 15.
As for 13 and 12? Well the Wallabies backline has been an unsolvable puzzle since Gregan and Larkham retired. Suddenly Australians felt Giteau should be at 10, and there was a hole at 12. Things looked good in Sydney last year when Barnes was Australia’s best back, and playing well from 12. There didn’t seem to be a problem at fullback with Cameron Shepherd either. But then Barnes got injured and that screwed up the Wallabies campaign. I actually think the Wallabies could have won the tri nations last year had Barnes remained fit.
From there Mortlock moved to 12 in South Africa and Ashley-Cooper came in at 13. Mortlock is not and never will be a Test inside centre. It seemed too restrictive a position for a player whose power running is the best feature of his game. Ashley-Cooper went to fullback in the Test when Australia got pumped and performed poorly.
This year O’Connor has perhaps had too much asked of him at fullback. Mortlock seems to be slowing down – especially in one Super 14 game in South Africa against I forget who.
It’s just a confusing puzzle. All of it. I don’t know what backline combinations will work for the Wallabies.
This isn’t getting started on the forwards.
ozxile said | November 3rd 2009 @ 3:18am | Report comment
If we must use AAC at fullback I would like to see the following lineup in some game – any game will do.
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. O’Connor
12. Giteau
13. Ioane
14. Hines
15. AAC
Hoy said | November 3rd 2009 @ 8:30am | Report comment
I like this one. While Cooper isn’t a great defender, he puts his body behind it at least, and has a go.
I can’t see this happening sadly. Giteau will now remain at 10 for the tour, which sucks, as he wasn’t a good 10 before, and now that Barnes is injured he still isn’t a good 10.
Justin said | November 3rd 2009 @ 8:34am | Report comment
With Barnes gone Gits will play 10 (wrongly yes, but thats where he will play unless we are -03). SO Gits at 10 and JOC at 12 for me.
mcxd said | November 3rd 2009 @ 5:52am | Report comment
Excuse my ignorance, i didnt get to see many Brumbies games this year but where did AAC play most of his games for them ? I believe Gerrard was fullback and did a good job for them but i may be wrong. So where was AAC ?
Robbo said | November 3rd 2009 @ 7:03am | Report comment
Gerrad was 15, although it was AAC for the last 4 matches when Gerrard was injured.
I would expect Ashley Cooper to be the Brumbies fullback again next year (unless Julian Huxley is cleared to play, in which case AAC will probably move to wing).
exile said | November 3rd 2009 @ 7:40am | Report comment
I don’t think Huxley will play. I believe Lealifano is more likely to be the regular Brumbies fullback in 2010.
Justin said | November 3rd 2009 @ 7:44am | Report comment
Is that an inside word Exile? Would make sense and he may have more of a future there. He can run and is skillful, know how to find the tryline. His kicking under pressure needs work but with time he hasnt a bad boot.
exile said | November 3rd 2009 @ 10:15am | Report comment
Not an inside word – I think there have been comments on blogs to that effect, which may have been
more informed than I am. If you look at his kicking style last season I think he must have been taking kicking
lessons from Gerrard – he was starting to cultivate the low, long touchfinderwith a bit of a “round the
corner” action
IronAwe said | November 3rd 2009 @ 8:13pm | Report comment
Huxley has always been good at those kicks, even at schoolboy level he was known for low long touch-finders. I think he struggled to find the confidence to play his natural game at super 14, hopefully he can come back. Would be very inspirational to the team.
Robbo said | November 3rd 2009 @ 7:57am | Report comment
That actually seems pretty likely:
In that case my expected Brumby backline would be:
9. Valentine
10. Giteau
11. Fanifo
12. Smith
13. Mortlock
14. Ashley-Cooper
15. Lealiifano
Thanks for pointing out Lealiifano – I hadn’t really thought about where he would go.
exile said | November 3rd 2009 @ 6:40am | Report comment
Gerrad was first-choice fullback for the Brumbies. AAC played on the wing or at 13 in Mortlock’s absence. He is not a 12 or a more than adequate 15.
If the Wallabies had a regular fullback available the rest of the positions would resolve themselves pretty easily.
Armchair-critic said | November 3rd 2009 @ 7:50am | Report comment
I was a bit rushed in preparing this so failed to get my message across.
I think the Wallabies need AAC at 15 more than any other position at the moment.
In Mortlock and Ioane we have 2 centres who are of similar ability to him but the same can’t be said for fullback. He is our best option there.
Perhaps when Shephard returns next year the situation can be reconsidered and AAC could make a push to replace Mortlock, but at the moment his position should be 15.
Dean Pantio said | November 3rd 2009 @ 7:58am | Report comment
His best position is centre. Playing people out of position is a recipe for disaster – something Deans has experience in.
Robbo said | November 3rd 2009 @ 8:17am | Report comment
His best position is wing.
Justin said | November 3rd 2009 @ 8:30am | Report comment
Agreed he is a 13.
Terry Kidd said | November 3rd 2009 @ 8:50am | Report comment
I agree with Dean P. Why are we even contemplating playing more people out of position? Hynes and Ione are wings. Leave them there. What is wrong with playing Giteau and Cooper at 10/12, interchanging as was expected with Giteau/Barnes? ACC is a 13 and the only other person who should even be contemplated at 13 is Mortlock when he is fit. In the meantime, we have to find a 15 to cover for at least one test. The likely candidates are Turner, Mitchell or Beale.
Therefore the backline should look something like this:
15 – Beale/Turner/Mitchell
14 – Hynes
13 – ACC
12 – Cooper
11 – Ione
10 – Giteau
9 – Genia
Bench – Burgess, Turner/Mitchell/Beale
I accept that there must be a weakness somewhere due to the injuries but that is no excuse for playing people out of position where you simply compound the problem. As much stability as is possible must be the first thought of the selectors to give any new selections the best possible chance of success on field.
Armchair-critic said | November 3rd 2009 @ 8:58am | Report comment
Having Beale, Turner or Mitchell at fullback is definitely NOT going to provide stability. Those 3 and JOC are not safe enough in defence or under the high ball.
I would much rather shift Ioane to centre (where he successfully played all year for the Reds) and have one of the softies on the wing with AAC at 15.
Or put Tyrone Smith in at 13… Against Jonny Wilkinson we cannot afford to have a weak link at fullback which is why i would go with AAC
Conor said | November 3rd 2009 @ 11:02am | Report comment
I disagree,
Ashley-Cooper is a utility back, he’s had his best games at 13 but is still the best option for fullback, as we have no other decernt options there, as opposed to 13 where we do have good, (or at least better) options
You suggest we shouldnt play people out of position and then recommend two wings and a flyhalf for full back as well, when ashley-cooper has had more or just as much experience playing fullback. Also Ioane showed during the S14 that he is more than capable playing 13, although S14 form isnt the same as a wallabies, i would be willing to back him, as he was the most destructive (aus) back this season.
But, that is still a good back lline you suggested and i agree with giving Q.Cooper a run at 10/12. Hes showed he can be electric in a decent team (which obviously doesnt include the reds, sigh). I would probably like ioane at 13, and ashcoop to 15.
Rah Rah Rasputin said | November 3rd 2009 @ 9:08am | Report comment
Right now he is our best 13 and 15.
Stephen Hoiles said on Foxsports after the game that he think AAC plays his best rugby at 15, which I tend to agree with.
I think the outside centre position is a hard graft and requires alot of grunt work up the middle, both in defense and attack, especially when you consider that he would have giteau and barnes inside him. This is the role mortlock has done for years.
I just think it is a waste of such a brilliant and well balanced runner.
It is the lack of credible alternative that will see AAC remain in the centres. As well as the fact that Giteau is reluctant to give up his precious no 10 jersey (if he wasn’t happy giving it up for Berrick, imagine the tanty he’ll have if he has to play outside Quade) and that while the selectors think 12 is JOC best position, he is not big enough to carry the defensive load.
I would actually like to see Tyrone Smith and AAC team up in the centres for the rest of the tour. He is far more dynamic then Cross, excellant runner in traffic and can give a pass to the outside man. Given his pedegree, I don’t think he would be out of his depth at test level.
Bay35Pablo said | November 3rd 2009 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Play Gits at 10 and Cooper at 12 as a 2nd 5/8. When they interchange, Cooper will outperform Giteau, and Deans can then point to the replays and tell Gits he’s 12 for the next game.
Terry Kidd said | November 3rd 2009 @ 9:08am | Report comment
Ok Armchair, thats your opinion. My opinion is that continually swapping players from position to position has not produced any results so far in 2009. We have continually complained that their is no cohesion or understanding in the back line. I do not believe in playing players out of position.
Armchair-critic said | November 3rd 2009 @ 9:16am | Report comment
I agree with you on that which is why i want to see AAC put at fullback and left there. Beale, Turner, Mitchell, JOC are not fullbacks.
However we do have replacement 13s which are actually 13s.
I dont know the stats but from what ive seen AAC has played more first class rugby at 15 than centre
exile said | November 3rd 2009 @ 11:12am | Report comment
He has played more at 15 than at 13 due to the presence at the Brumbies of one S Mortlock.
I think he has probably played more at 14 than 15 however since Gerrard moved from wing to fullback. However he has allways been marked as the 13-in-waiting, and has played there when Mortlock has been injured, without any real loss to the back line.
Rah Rah Rasputin said | November 3rd 2009 @ 9:18am | Report comment
I’ll also say that O’Connor has showed phenomenal improvement over the season. He has never let his mistakes or set backs get the better of him. I think he showed in Tokoyo that he has worked hard on his game since Wellington, contesting the high ball well and making an excellent tackle on Cory Jane in the last line of defence. That tackle in particular show the maturity in his game. He stood off, showed him the side line and drove in hard with the shoulder. Textbook, I thought.
For my money, I’d pick:
Genia
Giteau
Ashley-Cooper T.Smith
Ione Hynes
O’Connor
Res: Burgess, Cooper, Mitchell
Armchair-critic said | November 3rd 2009 @ 9:23am | Report comment
Yeh they could very well go for that.
I’d be happy enough for this game.
But if Tyrone Smith plays well i would like to see him kept in the midfield with Mortlock when he returns and AAC revert to fullnack with JOC to the bench. Would be a big ask of him to start every game on tour (Although i do agree he has shown good character to keep bouncing back and improving – i cant imagine how daunting it would be for an 18 yr old to be coming up against the ABs as the last line of defence)
Bay35Pablo said | November 3rd 2009 @ 9:30am | Report comment
Agreed playing AAC is our best option. Yes we have players playing out of position, but the current woes are such that AAC is the best player we have to play fullback. The other specialist fullbacks (Mitchell and Turner) aren’t in form. Hynes is a winger. Who else would you pick, really?
Terry Kidd said | November 3rd 2009 @ 9:40am | Report comment
I don’t agree that ACC is a fullback. What other fullback can you name would put up a kick that goes nowhere and then retreats rather than running the rest of his team onside so they may at least contest the kick? That error was unforgiveable stuff and cost the Wallabies 3 points just when they had sneaked back into converted try range.
There have been plenty of comments so far this year about ACC putting up kicks and not chasing them ….. so have you all forgotten and forgiven?
There is lots more to fullback play than just running and last line defending. I want someone there who can kick when required, who is capable of running the ball, who is gutsy, who has some vision to notice when running maybe the better option, who has speed and evasion, who won’t shirk a tackle and who can take a high ball. In my opinion Turner is the best option at 15 under the current circumstances.
stillmissit said | November 3rd 2009 @ 10:18am | Report comment
If we want an attacking backline then it should look like this:
9. Genia
10. Giteau (no choice)
11. Hynes
12 O’Connor
13. AAC
14. Ioane
15. Mortlock great tackler and may give him a chance to play to rwc.
Ben said | November 3rd 2009 @ 11:58am | Report comment
Mortlock at 15 ? Interesting and worth considering.
For England game
9. Genia
10. Giteau
11. Hynes
12. Cooper/Tyrone Smith
13. Ioane
14. Turner
15. AAC
Play players in their positions – AAC definitely best at 15. O’Connor on bench – good sub, too inexperienced. Get Beale on bench as well – same reasons.
Justin said | November 3rd 2009 @ 12:06pm | Report comment
If you want attacking you go Genia, Cooper, Gits, AAC (assuming no SM), Ione, Hynes, Turner.
What makes Mortlock a good option at 15? Really, what? If he is fit then you play him at 13 and AAC at 15. Simple.
Brett McKay said | November 3rd 2009 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
Justin, Mortlock’s first foray’s into Super and Test rugby were from fullback and the wing, so for starters, it’s not a foreign concept to him.
Secondly, he showed this season for the Brumbies that he’s still quite capable of playing at the back, in terms of defence, under the high ball, and indeed his clearing kicking. That Ashley-Cooper kept Mortlock on the wing for several weeks after Mortlock’s return spoke volumes for where Ashley-Cooper sits as an outside centre.
Thirdly, the wonderful sight of Mortlock in space would be more apparent if he attacked from fullback.
Fourthly, and this was my main point back in June/July, it takes him out of the front-line defence, and thus greatly reduces his propensity to sustain head-knocks. My suggested move was as much for Mortlock’s safety as it was for a solid fullback option.
That all said, Ashley-Cooper was very good when he switched to fullback on Sat night, so that alone is probably reason enough to leave him at the back!!
Justin said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:05pm | Report comment
I dont have the stats but his time at 15 would be very, very limited. He was mainly on the wing. His highball work is excellent and he is a powerful man in the air. The defence would be very different. At 13 he has people mainly running at him whereas at 15 I think he would be done for speed on occasion with wingers pinging for the corner. His kicking is OK but it isnt world class so lets not get carried away with that.
I dont think moving people fro personal safety is at all a good argument. If thats the case they should hang them up.
But in reality he is one of the best 13’s of the past decade and you want to move him?
Personally I dont think he will be in the RWC, I think age may catch him up before then, with injury becoming more prominent in the past few years. Unfortunately age will get him for 2011…
Brett McKay said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:19pm | Report comment
Justin, just so that I’m not sending mixed signals here, Mortlock is one of my very favourite players in the world in either code, and I’d be moving him away from 13 very, very reluctantly. I thought Andy Friend had lost his marbles when he kept Mortlock on the wing this year, but I was proved wrong with AAC’s and Mortlock’s first involvements.
And for the record, I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said there. I guess my suggestion is a way I can get Ashley-Cooper in his best position, and keep Mortlock in the side for as long as his body allows..
Justin said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:21pm | Report comment
Yeah all fair Brett… The Brumbies have as big a dilemma as AUS next year!!!
Brett McKay said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
absolutely mate, and that was my point to Mudskipper below. Berrick Barnes likened the Brumbies to Real Madrid at one stage when even he was looking at Canberra as an option, and Julian Huxley is theoretcially still in the picture I think too (though I’d hope his mum talks him out of it).
Anyway Justin, this is the sort of converstation best enjoyed over a quiet post-game beer or rum, so if you or any of you Roarers get to a Brumbies game next year, I’ll be happy to pick it all up again
stillmissit said | November 3rd 2009 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
Justin – not sure if you were one of them but a lot of Roarers were saying we had to have AAC at FB because the current options ie O’Connor, Mitchell and Turner were just not good enough defensively to hold the position.
Now I would argue that 13 is one of the toughest defensive positions on the field and as Brett has said he has played 15 before. He has the desire and the ability to play on to RWC but only if he can take the knocks and he will get a lot fewer at 15 than 13. His guts and tackling ability is second to none in the world and he can attack at speed and with impact from full back.
On the touchy feely side of the argument he would have a new option that could lengthen his career and bring on a last wave of emotional joy from the supporters. It would also take his mind off not being Captain.
The bottom line is would he want to do it?
Robbo said | November 3rd 2009 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
I really like the idea of Mortlock at 15! He can sure catch and kick and is still pretty pacey. Plus there would be absolutely no worries in defence.
Brett McKay said | November 3rd 2009 @ 11:59am | Report comment
Guys, we’ve all just proved that Ashley-Cooper’s best position is still up for conjecture, with him being named above anywhere between 12 and 15.
For what it’s worth, Stillmissit’s side above is the one I like the most, partly because this notion of Mortlock playing fullback is one I floated back in June/July – to mixed responses I have to say. But there’s still plenty of merit in the idea…
stillmissit said | November 3rd 2009 @ 12:52pm | Report comment
Brett – this idea has great merit and it should be discussed seriously. I think at the moment in Australia it has a base support of 2, you and I.
His experience and steadiness at the back would allow the youngsters to have a go, knowing that if it all went tits up there was a solid full back between their stuff up and the try line.
Brett McKay said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
Stillmissit, if Armchair will indulge my self-promotion, here is my original piece on shifting Mortlock back in June:
http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/06/04/a-switch-for-the-wallaby-captain-for-his-own-safety/
Armchair-critic said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
Very interesting Brett i had never thought of Mortlock moving to fullback. I had considered a move to the wing like what happened at the Brumbies this year but didnt even think of fullback!
The idea does have merit and it would certainly sure up the last line of defence.
My only question mark would be does he still have the pace and also could he handle the positional play. But he seems the kind of guy that knows rugby well enough to handle that.
All of these discussions have made me realise how many injuries there have been. What with Barnes, Mortlock, Shephard, Horne and Ioane just returning.
For what its worth here would be my starting backline if everyone were fit:
If Shephard rediscovers his best form:
9. Genia
10. Barnes
11. Ioane
12. Giteau
13. AAC
14. Mortlock/Hynes
15. Shephard
Otherwise:
9. Genia
10. Barnes
11. Hynes
12. Giteau
13. Ioane
14. Mortlock
15. AAC
Both of this are big powerful backlines with agile and fast players like O’Connor to come on in the last 20 and combine with Barnes, Giteau against tiring sides.
Brett McKay said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:39pm | Report comment
cheers Armchair, glad you’ve checked it out actually, but I really didn’t want to turn this away from your topic today. You’re right about injuries though, imagine what sort of discussions we’d be having if everyone was fit!!
Armchair-critic said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
No i enjoy it, its all related to the dilemma of where AAC should be.
From reading discussions I get the impression that he is so good at a number of positions that where he plays is dependent on those around him.
i.e. pick the best available players we have, in their best positons, and then use AAC to fill whatever gap is left.
Justin said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
Pretty much sums it up.
He is a victim of his versatility really.
Brett McKay said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
spot on Justin – as I’ve said here on another post, the fact that we can’t pin him down to one spot says just how valuable he is to the side.
Armchair, I’d reckon the selections go the other way – Ashley-Cooper is one of the first picked, but just not in one specific jersey…
Fortunately, he’s made a very good fist of the utility role. Compare with M.Rogers, for example..
Armchair-critic said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
Yes i didn’t word my post very well he would be the first picked
Put it this way, I’d say he’d be the first to be given a jersey but they wouldn’t stick a number on the back of it until everyone else has theirs.
Terry Kidd said | November 3rd 2009 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
That all said, Ashley-Cooper was very good when he switched to fullback on Sat night …….. have you forgotten the dreadful up and under and his subsequent retreat rather than running everyone onside Brett?
Keep him out of FB, kicking is not his strong point.
Brett McKay said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
no, I hadn’t forgotten it Terry, I just didn’t think that one kick overshadowed his game at 15. He and O’Connor were both much more involved after they swapped..
Justin said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
Brett do you think JOC should be at 12? And at 12 I mean purely as a running centre not a 2nd 5/8…
Brett McKay said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:26pm | Report comment
Justin, it depends what sort of 10 you’ve got. O’Connor is probably the closest we’ve come to reincarnating the Tim Horan-style running 12, and if the fly-half’s game is to direct to a point on the field (like Larkham or Barnes) and then attack, then sure, O’Connor plays 12 very well (that’s the game the Force play).
If the fly-half plan to to think of something on the spot and try it, then you probably need a second-five type of 12, in which case I’d look for Cooper (or maybe Toomua) of the remaining squad. Barnes has shown himself to be very adaptable to either game, and in this case, Ashley-Cooper at 13 and O’Connor at 15 makes a lot of sense.
For what it’s worth, the time to try O’Connor at 12 is probably as good as ever now. And Ioane looked very good last Sat, so maybe he’s worth trying at 13, with Ashley-Cooper at the back. I agree with points above that kicking isn’t Ashley-Cooper’s strong point, but him in 15 makes for a pretty potent backline to take on England..
Bruiser said | November 3rd 2009 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
I think his best position is 13…i agree with TK that his up and unders (bread and butter for a 15) are and have been very poor. He’s a great footballer and i think that 13 allows him to demonstrate his skills best. But as i have posted before we need specialists in their positions not generalists…at that level it is totally unforgiving and to have people moving between the positions must be very unsettling, no matter how good you are.
Robbo said | November 3rd 2009 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
For what it is worth here is the backline I would name for the England game:
9. Genia
10. Giteau
11. Hynes
12. Smith
13. Ioane
14. Turner
15. Ashley-Cooper
and here is the backline I would chose if they were at full strength:
9. Genia
10. Barnes
11. Hynes
12. Giteau
13. Mortlock
14. Ioane
15. Ashley-Cooper
I moved Giteau to Centre not because Barnes is a better flyhalf than Giteau, but because Giteau is a better centre than Barnes.
Terry Kidd said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:00pm | Report comment
I have no difficulty with Mortlock at 15 for the Ireland, Scotland and Wales tests and barring injury a backline for those tests should be:
FB – Mortlock
14 – Hynes
13 – ACC
12 – Cooper
11 – Ione
10 – Giteau
9 – Genia
But it does not solve the problem for the test against England, where unless a miracle cure appears Mortlock is unfit. Therefore the backline for England should be:
15 – Turner (for all the reasons I stated earlier)
14 – Hynes
13 – ACC
12 – Cooper
11 – Ione
10 – Giteau
9 – Genia
There are not too many ‘youngsters’ in that backline and there is a bucketload of speed. Against England let ‘em use the ball and run it. Ban kicking altogether !!!!
mudskipper said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
AAC is without a doubt the best Fullback in Australia right now. With Gerrard moving on because of lack of interest by the ARU and Shep out injured AAC is the man at the back. This has been AAC year he is really become world-class, for years he played as fullback or wing with the Brumbies so he knows the role well and has the nerve and skill to match away opposition. However i think next year we’ll see how good he is at 13 which I feel will become his best position.
Christian Leafiilano will play more full back for the Brumbies in 2010. Julian Huxley is currently the Specialist kicking coach for the Brumbies and Lealiifano kicking is greatly improved. He’s picked up a nice drop goal.
Brumbies backs for 2010:
Scrum halves: Valentine, Phibbs
Flyhalves: Giteau, Toomua, (Lealiifano)
Centres: T. Smith, A. Smith, Mortlock, (AAC)
Fullbacks: Lealiifano, Pat McCabe, AAC
Wingers: Fainifo, Alfi Mafi, Sipa Taumoepeau
Brett McKay said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
Muddie, with Gene Fairbanks not being re-signed (and I don’t know why), I now expect we’ll see Toomua and Giteau alternating between 10 and 12 as do Giteau and Barnes. Tyronne Smith has always struck me as a natural 13 rather than 12, but then he’s hardly going to play 13 in front of Mortlock or Ashley-Cooper. Lealiifano is almost the forgotten man in all this, and next year could determine whether he returns home to Victoria or not. Huxley himself shouldn’t be completely discounted either, though you’d like to think common sense will dictate that his playing days are over.
mudskipper said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
I agree Toomua could fit in nicely at 12 sharing the role with Tyrone
mudskipper said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
Huxley is keen but its a duty of care issue for the Brumbies and coaches. I can’t see him playing. He could become an outstanding backs coach. Moving on I believe Fairbanks has gone to Japan and the Brumbies signed Andrew Smith and additionally signed Pat McCabe after the Brumbies tour of France. Smith’s club rugby season was highlighted by outrunning Wallabies winger Lote Tuqiri to the try line in his side’s 25-21 win over West Harbour. Andrew Smith won the Ken Catchpole Medal for the most outstanding player during the 2009 Shute Shield. A nice signing.
I’m pretty sure Lealiifano and Toomua both signed for another 2 years with the Brumbies. However he may request to move, I hope he sticks around as he has really come on as a great young player in the past year. But Toomua is one every talented kid, he could be Australia’s Dan Carter if he keeps his head and works hard.
Brett McKay said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
Muddie, I was trying to think of who A.Smith was, and yeah you’re right, he’ll be handy, as will McCabe. If they can be squeezed in somewhere!!
Think you’re right about Lealiifano and Toomua, but I was under the impression that Lealiifano comes up at the end of next year, and hence my thoughts on his returning home. I know the Force made enquires about getting him for 2010, but he said he was keen to play out this contract in Canberra. Toomua was super impressive in those last few games, I really hope he continues along this path…
Chris said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:52pm | Report comment
Speaking of Australia’s options at outside centre (although this is more than a little off-topic) perhaps Deans should have given a certain Mark Gasnier a run in this weeks trial game. While I know ARU policy prohibits anyone playing for the Wallabies who isn’t contracted to an Aussie S14 team surely the ARU could have bent this rule for a trial game – just so Deans could get a gauge on where Gasnier is at before he (hopefully) starts playing S14 in 2011.
mudskipper said | November 3rd 2009 @ 3:31pm | Report comment
Gaz isn’t eligible for the Wallabies until he is signed with an Australia S14 -15 province…
So if he wants RWC glory he needs to sign for 2010 or 2011… keep in mind in Paris he is playing winger. Give him a season at 13 and he could be very handy in the Wallabies mix… As squad depth wins RWC…
..
mudskipper said | November 3rd 2009 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
Toomua also went across and played in the Currie cup for Western Province no less. And he did well replacing Grant at times or sliding in with Grant moving to 12. Not bad for a 19 years kid with only a dozen super matches to his credit… The kid has poise and skill; he sees the game clearly… I hope he gets a run against Gloucester tomorrow morning… If he was a horse he be in Bart Cummings stables… I guess a Brumby is a close as it gets in the rugby world… haha… on that note better go catch the race…
True Tah said | November 3rd 2009 @ 2:02pm | Report comment
I would put money on Toomua being more match fit than any of the other wallabies, why wouldnt Deans consider playing him?
Chris said | November 3rd 2009 @ 2:19pm | Report comment
Wow – I had no idea Toomua played in the Currie Cup. That is certainly better practice than playing Shute Shield.
Brett McKay said | November 3rd 2009 @ 2:19pm | Report comment
Muddie, I didn’t know that, I’d seen Toomua play for Easts, but admittedly that was a while ago. Tah’s got it on the head then, he’d be cherry ripe for a run now…
mudskipper said | November 3rd 2009 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
he went across after Shute shield for a month or so and the semi finals…
Terry Kidd said | November 3rd 2009 @ 2:25pm | Report comment
Brett, it wasn’t so much ACC’s kick that worried me but what he did immediately after. He retreated, when every schoolboy fullback knows that the first thing you must do, no matter how bad the kick, is run everyone onside. ACC didn’t do this, he retreated which meant every other Wallaby was off side (or could not advance to the ball) and thus gifted possession to the ABs inside our own half ….. and the kick was an option he didn’t have to take. Nope, not good enough for fullback. Play him at 13 where he is best suited.
stillmissit said | November 3rd 2009 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
Terry – you see this so often these days that I think it is a plot. The full back must fall back to ensure the last line against a countrer attack and whoever is onside has the responsibility of putting the rest of them onside.
I would prefer a wing to fall back and cover FB but this is soooooo old hat these, smart, informed, days. Rather to let the opposition just have the ball and we can all sit back and watch what they do with it.
Of course we have 8 forwards in the back line ready to pounce! or should that be ponce!
mudskipper said | November 3rd 2009 @ 3:23pm | Report comment
TK every player has a poor kick every now and then…
Ben said | November 3rd 2009 @ 4:02pm | Report comment
hmmmm cannot remember too many bad kicks from Dan Carter ?
Problem with Australian rugby is it is too forgiving.
Examples : I see the commentary from Saturday where Palu was “unlucky” where he dropped the ball going for a try …………..he dropped it because he is not good enough. Another where the lineout was appalliing but the set pieces had improved ? Great improved from where ? 2005 when England tore us apart.
The fact is our depth in terrible and the ARU do nothing to make the game any more appealling in Australia.
AndyS said | November 3rd 2009 @ 4:50pm | Report comment
For mine, AAC is best at 13 but is currently the best option available at 15 even though I don’t rate his kicking game there. So, assuming he plays there, there is the question of the centres. Right or wrong, I think that Giteau will remain at 10 for the duration of the tour so it comes down to the 12/13 combination. If Cross plays 13, I’d play O’Connor at 12 – unless I misheard, the observation was made that he ended up defending at 12 on the weekend anyway. As any question marks are over his defense rather than attack, if he is to defend there he might as well play there. Different style of kicking, less up-and-unders and a focus on ball in hand would probably suit him well. More importantly, Giteau/JO’C/Cross is an established relationship and defensive structure. They may not individually match with others, but they did work together pretty well at S14 (if there was a defensive liability in that team, it was Mitchell at 15). However, once Mortlock is back I’d MAYBE think about Smith. He wasn’t first choice for the tour (presumably on form) and I don’t know how much time he and Mortlock played together at the Brumbies, but again if there is an established understanding it can only help the less experienced player.
The other options would be Ioane at 13 (with God knows who at 12 and on the wing), or AAC at 13 (and God knows what defense at 15).
Amy91 said | November 3rd 2009 @ 4:52pm | Report comment
I think he is best in 13. However – at the moment – for teams sake he should probs be in 15.
Backline for now (due to injuries etc.) should be:
15. AAC
14. Hynes
13. Ioane
12. O’Connor
11. Mitchell
10. Giteau
9. Genia
Terry Kidd said | November 4th 2009 @ 5:35am | Report comment
Ben, Palu did not drop the ball in the second half while going for the line, it was ripped out by Nonu … legally I might add.
Stillmissit …. the problem was that there was no one behind ACC when he kicked. He had to run people onside. Yes, one of the wingers should have dropped back in behind but no way should ACC have kicked right then and there.
Mudskipper, I can forgive a wayward kick occasionally, what I can’t forgive is what he did after the kick. You simply cannot retreat. Also when he saw it was a poor kick it was doubly important for him to run people on side so it could be contested and defended.
Sorry, but that simply isn’t good enough for a test level fullback. I like the guy as a player but wearing No 13 and nothing else.
stillmissit said | November 4th 2009 @ 9:06am | Report comment
Terry – agree but I am sure this is a coaches instructions, I have seen this many times from several different FB’s. I don’t class this as AAC doing a weak or poor thing.
Ben said | November 4th 2009 @ 2:07pm | Report comment
Hmmm OK Nonu is a big boy but he plays no.12 whereas Palu is no.8 ? Did I say something about excuses and being too forgiving.
Terry Kidd said | November 4th 2009 @ 9:17am | Report comment
I am sure this is a coaches instructions …… Stillmissit, mate I can’t believe that any coach would instruct a FB to retreat after kicking when the result of the kick was going to leave all his team mates off side, inside their own half, and gift possession uncontested to the opposition.
No doubt the kick was meant to go a lot deeper, but so what? What is the point of putting up that type of kick at all if you don’t run your team mates on side so that the ball maybe contested? Schoolboy coaches don’t coach this into their back threes and I refuse to believe that an international coach would do so. Please if you know better then enlighten me on what the object of the tactic is. Please remember that in this situation no other player was behind ACC and therefore able to chase the kick, he and he alone could do it, should have done it.
Terry Kidd said | November 4th 2009 @ 2:14pm | Report comment
Ben, have a look at a replay on You-tube ….. at the time Palu was driving for the line, ball carried in left arm held against chest, fending off tacklers directly in front and right front of him. Palu’s charge took him to the right of Nonu, still with 2 defenders in front and grappling him, Nonu was thus on Palu’s immediate left and as Palu went past him Nonu reefed at the arm carrying the ball. Entirely legal on Nonu’s part and on that basis it is hard to fault Palu for losing the ball.
Apart from Hynes, Palu got closer to the try line, and more often, than any other Wallaby. I reckon you were just a bit tough on him saying he dropped the pill twice.
Gary said | November 4th 2009 @ 4:47pm | Report comment
Cameron shepherd is back in full training with the Force so hopefully will be fit next Tri Nations and beyond. He is easily the first choice for fullback if fit and he has a hell of a long range kick for goal as a bonus.