Republican, you really are a funny guy!

“With respect, what is your evidence Brett, that what I have previously stated has not taken place or indeed had no effect on the declining patronage of Union in the ACT over the past five or more years.”

Normally when you state something negative .. i.e. that you believe that rugby in the ACT is in some terminal decline, you have to actually prove it. But saying that Brett needs to prove that rugby is not in decline .. what a joke. Have a look at my figures above.

I guess you are still bitter about the fact that Canberra was lost to AFL 30 years ago … first to the raiders … and now the Brumbies as well.

I dont know why Republican hates the Brumbies so much, but with the new Melbourne franchise there is no possibillity of relocation ..

In terms of player numbers .. no idea where republican gets his ideas from.

WHERE RUGBY UNION PLAYERS ARE IN AUSTRALIA

• NSW 44.25%
• Queensland 30.83%
• ACT 7.97%
• Western Australia 7.39%
• Victoria 4.4%
• South Australia 2.79%
• Northern Territory 1.42%
• Tasmania 0.96%

Victoria has a huge population advantage over ACT .. but ACT has double the player numbers.
In terms of corporate and spectator support, this makes ACT a good option for a Super team.

In terms of stats on where the Brumbies are from, republican is also simply making things up.
In terms of birthplaces the Brumbies were born in the following places:

NSW 15
Qld 1
NZ 3
Tonga 2
ACT 2
Vic 2
Saudi Arabia 1
Indonesia 1

Significantly, neither of the Victorian born players played their junior rugby in Victoria. In contrast the ACT born players cam throgh the ACT development path.

Traditionally ACT has been a place where the NSW or Qld “rejects” are signed. i.e. players who havnt made it consistantly into the NSW team .. an advantage it has for NSW players is the proximity to Sydney .. it is only a few hours drive and this makes it more attractive than WA or Melbourne to players.

I dont see any chance of the Brumbies relocating .. they are successful on and off the field …

The problem is that rugby test schedules are decided on a 4 yearly basis .. South Africa have to host France in June.
As far as I know they are still looking for a compromise.

I do find it supremely arrogant of FIFA to ban any other major sporting events in stadia around the time of the world cup.
What right do they have to do so? I guess they make the host country sign an agreement to the effect ..

I really can´t ever see Australia being able to have a successful Soccer World Cup bid while this rule remains in place.

Soccer is 4th amongst the winter codes in Australia, a long way behind AFL and NRL in popularity, and if FIFA delegates came to visit, Im sure AFL and NRL fans would be protesting outside their hotels if their own code needs to be canned for a month for a sport they are not interested in.

There are better things that money could be spent on, like education and health, than new stadiums and airports so world cup tourists feel comfy.

I thought we already had that here in Australia .. twice .. but it was called something else … the … ummmmm argh ….. olympics … I think it was.

“During the past year, expenditure of $6.6 million on maintenance of grounds, buildings and plant was incurred”

This covers the whole Moore Park precinct…SFS, SCG, cricket centre and gyms etc. The full report makes for some interesting reading and is worth downloading.

http://www.scgt.nsw.gov.au/IgnitionSuite/uploads/docs/Annual%20Report%2008.pdf

That’s just one of many layers of interest in this WC bid business.

I understand that there is pressure to fill column inches these days , but this is the biggest non story Ive read in ages…and this site has definitely set the standard for pointless articles of late.

Still, the comments, as always are interesting and enjoyable…keep it coming folks

Queanbeyan are also very strong in Australian Footy I might add and feature in the ACTAFL finals regularly. Qbyn or struggle town as it is affectionately referred to by Canberran’s is really just another suburb of the ACT, akin to the Albury Wadonga relationship really.

Cheers

St Eddies certainly have moved away from their historic Union culture. This has slowly taken place through community pressure as well as parents of students who attend that College. I believe that Australian Footy will now flourish as a result which in my opinion is an extremely healthy shift.

I also note that St Eddies are achieving in the culinary feild having students win national cook offs and go onto represent their country O/S. They have also included dance in the ciric so the culture of this institution is definately no longer the ra ra one of old.

Bever Fever

Australian Footy is and has traditionally been very strong in this small demographic. sadly we are too small to be taken seriously by the AFL however let me just say that they would be on a winner if they took a punt on this region to be sure.

The ACT defeated country Vic this year in the Aust Country Champs and were runners up v them the previous year!!

Cheers

All your points about grassroots development in the ACT among sports, I completely agree with. If anything, I’d even suggest that Rugby is in front of League in our area, but I base that only on the number of clubs, and also the fact that a lot of the kids in my neighbourhood play rugby. Some play soccer, and some play Auskick, but I don’t know any young League players.

Again, thanks for all your responses to this, it’s been an interesting discussion from different perspectives. In the end, we have the same hopes and goals…

If anything i thought that aussie rules was on a downer in the ACT at junior level, although quite strong with plenty of teams in the old monaro division at senior level, but on the other hand weak overall bar a few teams at ACTAFL level.

I honestly wasn’t aware of the demise of St Eddies – I guess I didn’t really know the full story about them being excluded form various Sydney schoolboy comps.

I know you’ve been telling me about the improvement in Victorian juniors fore a while – ok – I’m starting to believe you!!

But as you say, it’s looking like it’s more about the quality of the ACT traditional nurseries as anything else.

It could be that St Eddie’s decided to move away from its focus on sport to improve their scholastic gradings?

The other interesting thing is that Queanbeyan made the grand final this year – now I haven’t really been keeping up with things for a while, but I can’t recall Queanbeyan being amongst the elite clubs before (and yes, I know it’s Campo’s original club) – not sure if that’s pointing to anything either.

I basically would take anyones word about who has /will become freehold owners of docklands stadium in 2025 than KB whose agenda is to attack australian football at any oppurtunity

I could quote a 1000 articles/wikipedia sites saying that the AFL will asume ownership then but i couldn’t be bothered.

Maybe its the fact he is the last man at fortress blieberg that is clouding his reasoning, manning the gates by himself night after night.

Poor old KB …. the only man in Australia who thinks Mr palmer has done a wonderful job.

As i stated earlier with the crowds that the GC soccer club get they could close the stadium down entirely and play in KB’s backyard, use his loungeroom for the corporates, he could explain how he knows more than some of the best business brains in australia about options.

Yes indeed mate, It would make for a veritable soapy.

There are numerous examples of absolute bloody minded discrimination on the part of the ARU, NSWRU and in particular the Sydney media who’s journos had links with big business no doubt. John Singleton was always good for a pot shot at the ACT’s status as an elite base for Union or anything else for that matter as he had a long held agenda to see the Brumby’s moved to the Central Coast.

One NSWRU decision that has single handedly put the mockers on any ACT grassroots foundation to development ,was that Unions Schools board expulsion of St Edmund’s and Marist Colleges participation in the Waratah Shield, which both had competed in for decades. This decision was justified on the strength of a particular colleges dominance over a number of years, yet when the ACT Colleges asked to be included in the elite Sydney pvt Schools comp which was more to their standard and which included the likes of Kings College and St Joeys for eg, their request was basically ignored.

These famous ACT nursery’s have now regressed to the point that one was easily accounted for by a Western Sydney high school this year and the Combined ACT High Schools accounted for the Combined Colleges in that ACT derby for the first time in yonks. Sadly this cannot be attributed to the formers improvement but more the respective Colleges slump in standard over recent years. I believe St Kevins in Melbourne and most Perth Colleges would defeat either of these traditional Union nursery’s today such is their fall from grace.

Cheers

“It paid $110 million for the Waverley Park precinct in December 2001″ (source : AUSTADIUMS.COM NEWS / Wednesday 15th March 2006)

btw – KB often forgets Mirvac did not build Docklands, that was Balderstone and Hornibrook.

re Chris Langford – this is his bio off the Babcock and Brown board of directors page :
“Chris Langford
Director
Independent

Chris has over 20 years experience in a range of roles within the property industry and brings significant knowledge to his role as an Independent Director. Having worked with Lend Lease and Mirvac on a variety of projects and property classes, Chris has a thorough understanding of the complex issues involved in the delivery of large scale projects. More recently, Chris was CEO of Mirvac Retail Projects until mid 2005, before forming Spyglass Property to focus on retail property development.

Chris is also a commissioner of the Australian Football League and a director of NSW Cultural Management, the manager of Sydney Theatre.

Chris holds a Bachelor of Architecture from the University of Melbourne”

At one point, in the early years of the Brumbies who were already making their mark, and with no ACT representation on the ARU board, and opening occurred, and guess what – the spot went to some bloke in the NT!!!!

I mean – you could turn this into a story and no one would believe it.

on this one, wikipedia is nowhere in sight.

Back in February I did all the ruddy ground work research for KB, and illustrated that it is purely and simply the venue management rights that are being bought and sold…..and only the rights up to 2025.

The more recent discovery was of the nominal ‘exercise’ rate for the AFL to pay of $30 only come 2025.

Poor KB likes to hope that the whole deal has changed.

It hasn’t. The management rights prior to the AFL assuming ownership is a saleable commodity for whomever ‘owns’ those rights at the time.

$260 million just blows KB’s mind in the Australian context….but, Docklands stadium is a very highly used venue by international standards. (ground rationalisation and 10 Vic based teams in a highly attended domestic league means that we’re talking value propositions not all that common on a global level).

I could be wrong but from memory Chris langford (AFL commissioner) has something to with Mirvac Fini, was it Mirvac Fini that bought AFL park for housing (redevelop) and Hawthorn got such a great deal out of it.

I don’t have ‘evidence’ that relocation is forthcoming only that based on the Brumby relocation history, which I would have thought you were privvy to, this will resurface as an option, depending on which way the cards fall in respect of the mooted Melbourne franchise. If Melbourne gets the nod then we can breath a sigh of relief until Adelaide comes along as the ARU’s next frontier for expansion.

Brett, my main concern as a Canberran, putting code allegieancies aside for a tick, is that in a world where corporate criteria determines any elite teams base, Canberra is always going to struggle. In respect of Union, this town always punched well above it’s weight however this is no longer the case and I believe that Brumby Rugby should take responsibility for this extreme decline in pedigree, since the Brumby’s were gleaned on the back of this grassroots criteria in the first place.

Now that Vic is well ahead of the ACT and i might add they are also well in advance of WA who happen to have a generic Super Franchise also, the ACT are extremely vulnerable to this end, since they cannot compete corporately and now have no subsequent GR to speak of either.

I fully appreciate that non traditional demographics are going to improve over time however the continued relliance on two colleges for their reps and a steady decline in their performance at Schools level particularly, now finishing at the bottom of the Aust Schools Championships ladder, winless on a regular basis, is a real concern for the code in the ACT I would have thought.

The ACT AFL and Soccer grassroots are way more impressive than Unions or Leagues which both have elite teams based here but I am not holding my breath for the AFL’s recognition of this fact, since Aust footy’s criteria is sadly way out of this towns league – for now anyway.

The Brumby’s once boasted the most passionate supporters anywhere in world and this was due in the main, to it’s sometimes excessively parochial tribalism. The Brumby’s local content was consistently high but now that has all been compromised from the grassroots up.

What is quite ironic is that Vic who are yet to glean elite Super status are producing stars of the future already. Is it just coincidence that Brumby Rugby have been promoting and fostering the games development in Vic for years because it would seem that the ACT’s future talent pool has all but dried up.

from 2005
AUSTADIUMS.COM NEWS / Friday 23rd December 2005
Seven set to sell off Telstra Dome

The Herald Sun has learned a deal to sell its management rights to the state-of-the-art stadium could be worth as much as $200 million.

All we are talking about is the management rights changing hands.

There’s pretty good value in a well attended AFL stadium.

Otherwise you wouldn’t see the MCC paying all but $77 mill of a $434 mill ground improvement.

Good money there for organisations other than the AFL. (although Michael Cockerill sees it differently I do believe,….but, I think he applies KB style ‘logic’ which is a biased flaw).

Note further
AUSTADIUMS.COM NEWS / Wednesday 15th March 2006
Mirvac hot for Telstra Dome

Giant property developer Mirvac is understood to be the preferred bidder for the management rights at Telstra Dome. The company, which bought Waverley Park from the AFL four years ago, is believed ready to finalise the purchase from the Seven network. It would hold the management rights for the 19 years until the AFL assumes ownership and total control of the Docklands stadium.

KB – I’m disappointed – - we’ve been over this all before, and you still, STILL don’t get it and still refuse to believe.

Certainly not Brumbies rhetoric, I can assure you. I have no assocoation with the Brumbies other than being a long term member. I’ve just expressed what I’ve seen, which I expect is what you’ve done too. If we stand a coin on it’s edge, we’ll both see a different view of the same thing. That’s fine, that happens.

On the whole, I don’t disagree with too much of what you’re saying. Your point about Rugby’s lack of effective governance is one I completely agree with.

We can certainly discuss the reasons for the declining crowds, participation rates, etc, and probably not have too dissimilar views. I will just add though that on-field performance has a lot to do with this too. Don’t forget, the ARU pins its whole budget on on-field performance..

We’ll have to agree to disagree about membership forecasts for 2010 though. I think Giteau returning and the addition of Elsom makes the team significantly stronger than the last few years, and therefore expectations are high. As you well know, Canberra loves a winner.

But I have no eveidence whatsoever that these supposed relocation moves have not taken place. That’s part of my reason for asking if you do have evidence to support your view. If I have no evidence that it’s definitely NOT happening, does that mean it definitely is??

Honestly, I have no interest at all in having a go at you Republican, or descending into the types of petty exchanges that often eventuate in these forums. My only beef here is that your constant referrals to the Brumbies relocating have largely gone unchallenged, and I would just like to know if you’re basing this on opinion or fact. Simple as that.

If it’s your opinion, then I’ll happily let it lie, because different people have different opinions (which fortunately we can share on The Roar). If it’s based on factual evidence though, then I’d love to see it (as would plenty of others, I’d imagine), because then the necessary fights can be fought (with the Brumbies and the ARU, not you). That’s only why I ask…

was that a follow up to “Singing in the 80s”???

I wonder if that 4.7 million includes the near enough to 200,000 VIPs etc across the 64 games??