By Bay35Pablo -
November 6th 2009 @ 1:24am
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Tahs signings a slap in the face for locals
The Waratahs’ signing of two “foreign” locks/second rowers for 2010, albeit one under the marquee rules, is a slap in the face for local talent.
Recent injury woes suggest a lack of depth in the Australian lock ranks, although the toll has been truly horrid. However, the question arises as to whether those toiling away in the club rugby ranks aren’t good enough to step up.
The Waratahs have seen fit to sign South African Hendrik Roodt, and now New Zealand-born lock and loose forward, Cam Jowitt.
Although the Waratahs have developed local talent, such as Will Caldwell, Chris Thomson and Kane Douglas, in addition to Dean Mumm, it begs the question of why the Waratahs have to go off shore for talent.
The answer may be they need a quick fix, but it also begs the question as to why there isn’t talent close to home in the supposedly lauded club rugby ranks (sometimes I find O’Neill and L’Estrange’s praise of the club competitions to be protesting its quality too much, to paraphrase Shakespeare).
If those toiling in club rugby are overlooked for professional contracts, then it is an unsubtle message of “you’re not good enough”.
To the extent that it is due to the step up required from club rugby to professionalism being too big, then it again brings us back to the issue of needing an extra tier of competition.
One also has to wonder about the letting go of David Dennis in those circumstances.
Here is a lock developed by NSW, and apparently good enough to tour with the Wallabies (albeit mainly due to the injury toll), but who doesn’t figure in the Waratahs’ plans while “foreign” players do.
Perhaps we should be happy for the limits on “foreign” players.
One gets the feeling that in a few years time, with no such limits, we could see the NSWRU running out a European football style foreign legion of players, which would remove the need to worry about pesky issues like developing local talent.
I’ll be cheering on Roodt and Jowitt, like anyone else that wears the sky blue jersey.
But don’t expect fans not to ask questions about what this means in a deeper sense for NSW – and Australian – rugby.
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(28)
Cutter said | November 6th 2009 @ 2:20am | Report comment
Dennis is a club lock. He would only ever be a provincial 6. At 192cm and around 105kg, he isnt big enough for a lock’s set piece work. Whilst I dislike the residency rule in rugby (as with cricket where England will soon have 11 South Africans playing for them), Dennis isnt the answer.
Bay35Pablo said | November 6th 2009 @ 7:53am | Report comment
Cutter, that suggests Dennis (i) wasn’t recruited properly by NSW given he has tended to play as a lock, and (ii) really was the bottom of the barrel for the Wallabies.
A few years ago we were swimming in locks. Where have they gone? Is this a problem with the insistence on them being utilities and able to play 6 as well?
Jameswm said | November 6th 2009 @ 8:07am | Report comment
NSW recruited Dennis to play 6.
My question is – even if Mowen is your primary no.6, who will play there if he gets injured?
Also – interesting that one of these foreign players was signed as a marquee player – I’ve never heard of either. Surely if you want a marquee name you’d try for a Matfield or Chabal?
jerome said | November 6th 2009 @ 8:19am | Report comment
Hendrick Roodt was signed under the marquee rule because he hasn’t represented South Africa and so therefore could play for the Wallabies in 3 years time, provided he’s good enough and stays long enough to qualify.
JimmyJam said | November 6th 2009 @ 8:27am | Report comment
Guys,
Roodt was signed as an emerging player who can eventually play for the wallabies via residence. Jowitt has an australain parent or grandparent. Anesi was the marqee signing.
JimmyJam said | November 6th 2009 @ 8:29am | Report comment
Mumm also covers 6 if one of these new guys fills role of lock with either Caldwell or Thomson
Rusty said | November 6th 2009 @ 8:29am | Report comment
Roodt is a great move as he is a typical 4, not a 5 or hybrid as most locks nowadays are. So you can expect him to be putting his bulk (121kg) into the tight and scrums instead of swanning around in the centres. For that reason he is a great loss to the SA rugby and Bulls academy. Not to mention the supporters who were rooting for Roodt
Central North said | November 6th 2009 @ 8:40am | Report comment
David Dennis came through the Tahs Academy system and he has always been seen as a 6, not a lock, at provincial level. Don’t confuse the fact he plays primarily lock for Sydney Uni – Cutter’s spot on about his height/weight stats.
Who’s been snubbed at club level?
Thomson is in the squad, Douglas – who’s got genuine height and if he’s anywhere near as tough as his brother Luke (Sharks prop in the NRL) will have no problem stepping up – is still a tad green to mix it around the park, Mafi seems to have gone off the boil (and I keep hearing whispers he’s being shopped around here and overseas in union and league) and like Douglas is green.
Bay – can you give me some options?
Bay35Pablo said | November 6th 2009 @ 11:05am | Report comment
Central North, Parramatta’s Sitiveni Mafi springs to mind, but you’d said he’s off the boil. So does Hugh Perrett, but I think he’s a flanker. Beyond that I’d have to do some research. I can’t say I know the club ranks well enough to suggest blokes who can step up, but in a way this is part of the comment. Why aren’t they lined up and being developed? Where’s Jimmy L’Estrange’s club rugby factory? Are we really having to go to foreign players for good reason?
smithy09 said | November 7th 2009 @ 2:58am | Report comment
I know for a fact they made an offer to Cameron Treloar before last season before the coach was anounced then withdrew it after Hickey was announced as coach. Then again this year looked like offering him a deal before telling him with the loss of Lote Tuquri their most important option was to secure an outside back leaving him no choice to sign again in Italy somewhere. In the past 2 years he captained the Rays in the ARC to the championship, won the Italian Championship with Calvisano and also played Heineken cup last year. Whilst he has only made a few appearances in club rugby in the last few years he has played well over 100 first grade for Warringah. Surely he may have been a better option. Hard to say as not easy to monitor his form whilst in Italy.
Jameswm said | November 6th 2009 @ 8:40am | Report comment
Thanks rusty – I like him then, if that’s his style.
Thanks Jimmy – forgot about Anesi.
So Tahs 22 looking like this?
1 Robinson
2 TPN
3 Baxter
4 Caldwell
5 Mumm
6 Mowen
7 Waugh
8 Palu
9 Burgess
10 Barnes
11 Anesi
12 Beale
13 Horne
14 Turner
15 Mitchell
16 Fitzpatrick
17 Kepu/Palmer
18 Roodt
19 Fava
20 Holmes
21 Halangahu
22 Carter/Nasiganyavi
Also
Cam Jowitt
Chris Thomson
Rory Sidey
Weakest position is 13 I think. Tight 5 not what it used to be unless they let Roodt give us some grunt!
Vented Relief said | November 6th 2009 @ 4:21pm | Report comment
Don’t forget Freier. NSW has a multitude of good hookers at the moment.
Cracker said | November 6th 2009 @ 8:48am | Report comment
How did NSW let go Jared Hargreaves-Waeres? He was a very promising number 8 and has now gone to Manly and is running around belting people for NZ in the current league 4 nations. In the media there is no mention that he’s a rugby player and in his first year of proper league. But how could NSW let him get away when they knew how good he could be. I think he’s still only 20
The Link said | November 6th 2009 @ 9:18am | Report comment
Was he ever on the Tahs roster? He’s at the end of his 2nd year of RL BTW.
Central North said | November 6th 2009 @ 9:00am | Report comment
They offered him 180k per season when he was just 18 years old, that’s how.
Brett McKay said | November 6th 2009 @ 9:00am | Report comment
Cracker, he was outstanding as a 6 for the Rays during the ARC, but was already signed by Manly at that point. He’ll be with the Roosters next year..
Hoy said | November 7th 2009 @ 8:47am | Report comment
I was under the impression he signed for Manly after the ARC, as NSW wouldn’t play him, they only said he would be in the squad or academy. He wanted to start, and I think from memory, after some good games possibly had a case for starting for the Tahs.
But then, he went to League pretty easily, so who knows. He is going well there.
I remember watching him play the ARC and there was massive talk that he would be in the ilk of SBW, but it looks like he has gotten a lot bigger than what he was, and has lost a fair bit of mobility. Not too sure he ever had the handling of SBW either. Still, he goes in hard.
Firestarter Bob said | November 6th 2009 @ 9:55am | Report comment
The Waratahs gave up being a NSW team long ago.
Yikes said | November 7th 2009 @ 6:45pm | Report comment
Oh what a load of crap!
The team’s been to Bathurst, Wollongong, Campbelltown, Newcastle, Central Coast in the last couple of years and will go to Lismore and Orange for games next season.
OldManEmu said | November 7th 2009 @ 6:57pm | Report comment
Dear me Yikes – theferocity of that response suggest you might have a personal stake in the administration of NSW Rugby.
Take it from me, as someone who lives west of Homebush, quite a deal west, country folk and particularly those south of say Cowra regard the Brumbies as a NSW country team. So whatever the reasons, people in NSW country do feel disenfranchised from the Waratahs.
Gee said | November 10th 2009 @ 12:40pm | Report comment
Old man Emu people in sydneys west do feel disenfranchised with the Waratahs, the western sydney teams – Parramatta and Penrith are goin downhill as there is no local interest and lack of attraction to local and other players as there is no “Waratahs” playing for these teams, so how are the two teams meant to support, represent and boost Western Sydney if there are no Waratah players playing for these teams. How many Waratahs are running around for Randwick or Uni compared to Penrith and Parramatta ?
Rah Rah Rasputin said | November 6th 2009 @ 10:04am | Report comment
Cracker, it was also right about the time Rocky Elsom was coming into his own as a No 6. The Tahs also had Palu and Lyons. It looked like his path was blocked, so you can’t blame him really.
I think the recruitment of Jowitt shows that players don’t come from the shute shield ready made for super 14, especially when it comes to tight five forwards.
There is also the new super rugby team to consider which is bound to drain talent.
I wouldn’t be so surprised if the Tahs move Mumm to blindside flanker, given all the lock talent they have – Caldwell, Douglas, Thomson, Roodt, Mafi. Maybe there is also some ongoing concern about Will Caldwell. He hasn’t been on the field since the end of the Super 14 and rumours are that he has lost a tremendous amount of weight. And for that matter, what about Fava?
My 2010 Tahs are:
Robinson
Polota- Nau
Baxter
Caldwell
Jowitt
Mumm
Waugh
Palu
Burgess
Barnes
Mitchell
Carter
Horne
Turner
Beale
re: Fitzpatrick, Kepu, Roodt/ Douglas/ Mafi, Mowen, Holmes, Sidey/ Halangahu, Anesi
Cracker said | November 6th 2009 @ 11:55am | Report comment
Pardon my ignorance on that one. I thought Hargreaves had just finished his first year of league.
I remember them talking him up a few years ago prior to the ARC and during that tournament was the only time I’d seen him play, but he was a big boy then and at 18 years old he seemed primed for great things.
jerome said | November 6th 2009 @ 11:58am | Report comment
A little off the topic but considering the Waratahs signed Roodt does anyone know what happened to the Saffa fly-half Isma-eel Dollie who the Brumbies signed at the end of 2008? I don’t think I heard him mentioned once during the Super 14 this year.
chris, syd Aust said | November 6th 2009 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
was that the chap that sent in the dvd of himself coz he couldnt crack a s14 safa side… sounds like he would be 4th choice fly half now.
1. gits
2. tomua
3. leleafino
4. dollie
jerome said | November 7th 2009 @ 7:48am | Report comment
Yeh thats the bloke. He would certainly seem to be forth choice at the Brumbies but I would be very surprised if he wasn’t a better option than Lealiifano. He represented SA in U/19’s and U/21’s and was selected in the wider Springboks training group in 2008 before signing with the Brumbies.
Hammer said | November 7th 2009 @ 5:33pm | Report comment
Wow try and figure out whats happening at the Tah’s, GOOD Luck. Over the years I have seen a gradual decline in good coaching, coaching programs, the ARU level 1,2 and 3 programs are so for behind the time its a disgrace. So the outcome is simple junior players are not being properly developed, they are in academies that flog them measure them, council them but rarely coach rugby. so it’s far easier to (as in NSW’s) warehouse them so they don’t get games. Then when they look around for replacements or are recruiting its again far easier to get players from overseas that have ben COACHED properly.
EG. Luke Rissman played NSW B in last years Nationals in Canberra. Won a place in the Aust Schoolboys, then won starting spot in the team. I believe that no Australian province has showed any interest in him. 187cm 100Kg;s Australian Schools player with no province ???
I don’t know where or if he is still playing but he is typical of the lack of support our professional teams give our elite pathways.
Yikes said | November 7th 2009 @ 6:55pm | Report comment
Oh Hammer. You’re really going back to the greatest hits here. Warehousing players in academies? That old chestnut? How many times does this ridiculous myth have to be debunked on the Roar before people get with the program? Your comments on courses are so comical they don’t deserve a response!