By rugbyfuture -
November 6th 2009 @ 1:13am
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Why rugby will never die in Australia
Unfortunately, once again, rugby in Australia has come to a point where it is becoming at the bottom of the football codes, due to, much like the Wallabies, their failure to be able to finish the game.
When Australia gained the rugby World Cup in 2003, the sport was at a high, and was only gaining momentum.
Australia, who lost to England thanks to the now hated modern kicking tactics of England, were still considered one of the better countries in the world in the sport.
But when they lost, they also lost the momentum Australian rugby had obtained. From this point on, Australian rugby would start to fall.
Now people are heralding an apocalyptic time for Australian rugby, due to an abundance of losses and an ignorance of the benefits of the ELVs from the Northern Hemisphere.
But there is one reason Australian rugby will never disappear, and is possibly at a time when it is about to rebuild itself stronger than ever.
Money.
People have seen the elitism of rugby as one of its downfalls, but whilst it does create an illusion of hierarchical support, it is also what supports the rugby community and keeps it afloat. I know from my experience, with a background in a Sydney North Shore private school, that the future of rugby is in the hands of the future CEOs of the major Australian financial institutions.
Unfortunately, this is both a burden and a blessing to the Australian rugby community, but one should invest in blessings for sustainability.
The second brief reason Australian rugby will always live on is the Olympics. I know many are saying, “but it’s only rugby sevens.” But this is exactly the speedy, non-combative version of rugby to combat rugby league.
So we should not be afraid of rugby union in Australia being destroyed or dissolved into nothingness because rugby will always have the backing of money and now the Olympics.
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(43)
Paley said | November 6th 2009 @ 1:18am | Report comment
So union might have some folk with some money interested in it and a half baked, cut down version in the Olympics. Jolly good.
Siva Samoa said | November 6th 2009 @ 7:36am | Report comment
and millions and millions of dollars invest into the 15’s. i love this game.
rugbyfuture said | November 6th 2009 @ 11:45am | Report comment
just like soccer has a cut down, under 23 version in the olympics, and officially, without the olympics 95 nations full members of the IRB opposed to what like 4 or sumthin with no prospects in the irlf mostly made up of australian expats wanting a free jersey
anopinion said | November 6th 2009 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
???? Pardon, I lost you there.
Ian Noble said | November 6th 2009 @ 2:16am | Report comment
Paley
Rather pathetic comment to an article which essentially relates to the problems of rugby in OZ not worldwide. It may be that rugby in OZ may slip further down he pecking order but it wil never die out and indeed there is an argument to say with rugby’s worldwide presence and financial muscle it will recover in OZ. Tinkering with the rules as suggested on other blogs to create a game which is more appealling to the OZ mind-set is not the answer as the rest of the rugby world is powering ahead with or without OZ.
As a League supporter you will probably not see further than your face but this weekend will amply illustrate the future difficulties that RL has as a product. It can not compete with rugby as a product and the sponsors realise it. Look at the attendances at the relevant internationals and the viewing figures, I even see that Radio 5 live (BBC Radio) have relegated England v NZ (RL) onto it’s Sports extra channel and will only have the 2nd Half commentary on the radio; full commentary of Eng v Wallabies on the main channel and Wales v New Zealand on sports extra; unfortunately illustrating the cobbled together nature of the 4 nations tournament.
RL really has got to smarten it’s act, as the impact of rugby 7’s as an Olympic sport will be profound and the danger is that more investors/sponsors will more towards rugby and leave RL in it’s wake.
Paley said | November 6th 2009 @ 2:25am | Report comment
My reply was perfectly reasonable given the original article. Frankly I don’t really care about any supposed code war between rugby and union and the endless articles on here about it are very tedious.
As for this weekend, I will be watching the rugby.
Siva Samoa said | November 6th 2009 @ 7:38am | Report comment
and i would be watching the RUGBY WORLD CUP in 2011.
rugbyfuture said | November 6th 2009 @ 11:47am | Report comment
yes, proper rugby, opposed to league
Rodney McDonell said | November 6th 2009 @ 9:39am | Report comment
Yer, apparantly this was supposed to happen within 10 years after the 2003 World Cup…
I’m not sure if Rugby League will ever make massive moves away from Australia, New Zealand and England. The only real chance of having another compeditive country is probably PNG – which doesn’t give me much hope. Even if League does increase the amount of compeditive playing nations, chances are rugby and football will streak ahead at the same rate or more.
But this matters not. The increasing importance of the NRL to club supporters is enough to keep rugby league fans excited and comming back for me. And then there is the state of origin, which is increasing massively in importance year on year. Tehre is no doubt many fans from AFL and rugby both like to watch these games. With so much quality rugby league in Australia, there is little pressure for international football – but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to build on that.
So i dont think the increasing profile of rugby over seas will have much affect on the NRL, SOO or people watching it. I think both will increase in importance to the Australian public, inline or in excess of what happens in rugby as has been the case in the last 10 years.
Working Class Rugger said | November 6th 2009 @ 2:38am | Report comment
Ian
This being an Australian based site a fair degree of Aus-centric thinking does come into it. Especially from League fans as Australia is the shining light of the game. But as you have highlighted Rugby has a siginificant upper hand and likely always will. Just look at the recent Belgium vs Moldova game in Brussels. 3,500 turned out when only a couple of years ago less than a couple of hundred would have. And it was only a game against Moldova. Game featuring Germany and the Czech Republic have drawn more than 5 thousand. Not bad considering they compete in the ENC 2A division. Not the ENC1/ 6 Nations B as it is known. Then look at the turnouts for last weekends Euro Cup for RL. No comparison really.
Australian League fans tend to ignore that outside of NSW and QLD League tends to fall away. Even in its English heartland of the North most crowds this season have been disappointing. And that’s the admission of English League fans.
The facts of the matter Rugby has achieved more in 14 years of professionalism in advancing the game than League has or will with over 100 years of professionalism. There time came and went decades ago.
And the impact on Rugby that the IOC’s decision will have. Ian, you’re very insightful with that. Rugby’s development resource have just grown expotentially overnight. Sponsor’s follow the sports that have populus appeal. Rugby can make it the next truly global Football code alongside Soccer. Here’s an example. USARugby with a budget far less than $500,000 have been able to get more than 130,000 kids involved in their introductory and development program “Rookie Rugby”. Now with Olympic funding they can invest more than 10 times or more than its current budget for this program. You can do the sums yourself. But that is hugely significant. The USA is a big dollar market and the more Rugby grows there the more they will begin to become involved.
The Link said | November 6th 2009 @ 9:16am | Report comment
Rugby is a pretty small international sport. Rugby followers point to their international spread compared to League, but that’s not really saying much. Both are dwarfed by Football internationally. If you want an international game watch Football. Australians prefer Rugby League, so be it, lets all just get on with it.
rugbyfuture said | November 6th 2009 @ 11:48am | Report comment
i’d agree but its the closest thing to an international contact football code
Alex said | November 6th 2009 @ 4:53am | Report comment
I went to the Netherlands v. Belgium in Brussels last year. There was genuinely a very good crowd there. Many more than the 3500 although the reasons for that are fairly obvious. The Belgians were put to the sword by a Barbarians side a week or two later in front of a healthy crowd in one of the football stadiums as well. The Belgian government has also been proactive in introducing the sport to secondary schools across the country.
Working Class Rugger said | November 6th 2009 @ 10:29am | Report comment
Alex
The Belgian vs Netherland games pull good crowds too. Forgot to mention that. It like a derby match for them.
Working Class Rugger said | November 6th 2009 @ 10:37am | Report comment
The Belgians’ are actually a bit of a surprise packet in terms of development. Their U18’s this year competed in the top div of the Eiropean U18;s Championship holding their own and being very competitive. It good to here the Govt backing Rugby by getting the game into the schools. Well done. On another note. The Netherlands have just opened their first elite Acadmey in the countries North West. For ages 12 – 18. Ranging from 12 -20 hours of interaction on a weekly basis. It the first of four planned and an integral part of the Nederlands Rugby Union LOOT development program.
rugbyfuture said | November 6th 2009 @ 11:49am | Report comment
not to mention Jaques Rogge (chairman IOC) played internationals for belgium
King of the Gorganites said | November 6th 2009 @ 12:24pm | Report comment
stade francais are playing there Heinken Cup match against Ulster in Brussels in mid Dec. Sure to be a big occassion and spread the game of Rugby further into Northern Europe
rugby one said | November 6th 2009 @ 7:36am | Report comment
Finally reading some A1 comments for a change, there are others that see same point of view… Thankyou. All the doom and gloom I read on this web site really pisses me off!!
Siva Samoa said | November 6th 2009 @ 7:43am | Report comment
League would die in NZ before rugby dies in Australia. Compare the numbers of league players in NZ and rugby players in Australia. League is barely holding on in NZ.
jake said | November 7th 2009 @ 6:28pm | Report comment
Rubbish! League is growing in NZ!!! Im from Auckland and most of the younger generation really like/love League and Follow the NRL! Of course the Older Generation Follow Rugby Because the grew up in a time when there was no alternative. Australian Rugby League only really started to be shown on sky in the mid 90s!!! The numbers point is garbage Per Capita there’s more NZ League players than Aussie Rugby Players
Aussie Pop. – 22,000,000 Registered Union Players – 38,000 0.17%
NZ pop – 4,315,800 Registered League Players – 22,000 0.5%
League is not barley holding on mate. Auckland had roughly 1/4 of the population and the Warriors, NRL, Origin (Mainly Queensland) and Kiwis are really well supported. Every time the warriors have a good run in the finals the whole place starts buzzing!! Everyone’s talking about it!!! I was converted by the 2002 Finals run!! and so were a a lot of other people in my age bracket (18-25). Union on the other hand, Its the establishment game of NZ Its sorta like the thing to do/ talk about. The last and union game i went to (Blues v Highlanders Never Again sooo boring!) i was in the panasonic stand and noticed groups of young kids next to me in the terraces sitting in circles drinking, chatting with there backs to the game!!!! they were there to socialise not to watch. Compare that to League crowds at the Warriors and Olympic Park (I now live in Melbourne), Staunch Leaguies Riding every run, tackle, Kick, Refs Decision in the game!! I recon League can dethrone Unioin in NZ!!!! (bold prediction i know!!!) it will take a while 20-30 years, The following things need to happen. Warriors win a premiership, Kiwis continue to be successful internationally, Another NRL team (Should Be based in Canterbury), All Blacks do not win the next world cup (Its what means the most to Union People, there not gunna put up with constant disappointment every 4 years) Also it will just take time the older generation need to die off (Sounds Morbid but true) so generation Y who has watched all sport growing up and made there own choice are adults!!
rugbyfuture said | December 21st 2009 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
i know this is a bit late but the actual total registered players in australia is 84000, or using your statistics on equal grounding, the total number of registered adult league players in new zealand is between 3-4 thousand, if that is to say that the registered adult union population is 38000, therefore statistics either count as
38000/22000000 = 0.17
4000/4315800 = 0.09268
or
84000/22000000 = 0.4
22000/4315800 = 0.5
meaning they are closer than they appear to you and there are more registered adults in australia for union than league players in New zealand
Cam said | November 6th 2009 @ 8:50am | Report comment
Everyone please ignore this ‘Paley’ guy. He posts as ‘Gort’ on planet-rugby forums and is a bit of a fruitcake. He hates rugby and is the moderator of the pathetic board ihaterugbyunion.com . Everyday he trolls on rugby forums tryign to tell Rugby fans that league is a better game.
Rodney McDonell said | November 6th 2009 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Your pretty much right… The reason rugby will survive is not because it’s a sport that appeals to the masses, it’s not because of the exciting non stop action… It’s because people who played it at private school and university are likely to help prop it up when they become the leaders of this nation.
I hope this makes you feel better. Your essentially emitting that rugby will continue to stink and exist, like a landfill that continues to create and release methane.
I wonder how long this will last. Business is business after all and if crowds and TV Ratings continue to decline and the other codes continue to incraese, then common sense will eventually prevail with the sponsors and they’ll pull out… in fact, it’s been reported that several, including Bundy & Vodaphone are already reconsidering resigning when they’re sponsorships expire.
No doubt they’ll find some more, but again, how long can it last?
rugbyfuture said | November 6th 2009 @ 11:55am | Report comment
but the fact is the ARU will get an increase in funding due to the Olympic decision (from both the government, respective institutes of sport and sponsors) and it’ll become a more evenly competed sport around the world, making the game more innovative and progressive and giving it the ability to become the number 1 rugby code, it may also get more free to air coverage, furthermore if rugby is a landfill creating and releasing methane then atleast it is creating sumthing useful, which can be converted to energy, rather than a cesspool of idiots and criminals
Firestarter Bob said | November 6th 2009 @ 12:24pm | Report comment
Suggest you go and talk to John Coates & the AOC. Money’s run dry my friend for Olympic sports in Australia.
What little money comes from Rudd’s hand will go to the smaller sports.
Rugby 7s has a professional body that is earning plenty of money. It’s called the ARU. The AOC will make the ARU foot the entire Olympic 7s bill, not the other way around.
AndyS said | November 6th 2009 @ 7:28pm | Report comment
Which is not necessarily a bad thing, as he that pays the bills sets the rules. If there is Olympic funding, it would all require separate accounting and there would be a slow trend toward the AOC setting the agenda and eligibility criteria for Australian Sevens. Ultimately, the game would likely spin off with separate administration etc and the ARU would lose control of it altogether.
ilikedahoodoogurusingha said | November 6th 2009 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
“Business is business after all”
That is true on many fronts, including how long do you think News Ltd will keep bailing out the Melbourne Storm to the tune of $6 million a year…….one of the most successful sides in the NRL of the past 4 years, and they cannot break even. Both codes will continue to exist in their own niches, but as the article originally states, like it or not the CEO’s etc in charge of the purse strings tend to come from Private Schools and Uni’s and have the background in Union.
Pippinu said | November 6th 2009 @ 9:30am | Report comment
“Your essentially emitting that rugby will continue to stink…”
But who is doing that emitting that is resulting in the stink?
Firestarter Bob said | November 6th 2009 @ 9:52am | Report comment
Rugby’s best hope for survival is for the ARU to form a “collation of the willing” with the AFL.
The AFL and ARU could work together in a united front to rid Australia’s eastern seaboard of rugby league.
AFL could have the the weekend club football, and the ARU could have mid week Super rugby and Wallabies games.
The two can work together.
mitzter said | November 6th 2009 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
argh! Never!
Ready Rugby said | November 6th 2009 @ 11:06am | Report comment
Good to see some intuative comments coming through. To the league guys your comments granted it is pretty niave to think league is in a league to compete with rugby on an international stage. It is true that rugby is kidding itself as a competitive international alternative to football.
Rugby does have a presence like it or not that will never go away, yes the IRB didn’t do rugby any favours by axing the ELV rules in its infancy, however, the refining of the rules will be an agendar for years to come, isn’t that why league was formed in the first place?
I think the real advantage of the 7s in the Olympics will be gained through Primary School rugby. Finance increases aside, the benefits of 7s rugby is that it is easy to coach, ref and fun to play. League has had these advantages in the primary school arena for years and now rugby has a real alternative to push forward. Rugby’s hand brake for growth has been the duty of care factor, put simply, the fear of injury and coaching the scrum. 7s rugby eleviates these problems and also offers a far more interactive game.
15s rugby will always stumle along until both the Northern and Southern hemisphere decide to sit down and look at the problems facing the future growth of the game and study the football blueprint. Rugby league on the other hand can’t evolve any more than it has and really doesn’t offer a clear alternative to football outside of QLD and NSW.
Paley said | November 6th 2009 @ 6:01pm | Report comment
Rugby isn’t trying to compete with union internationally. Rugby is just doing its own thing – on occasion that might attract the attention of union which is unfortunate because union is not the most honourable of sports when it comes to rtelations with other sports.
Bill said | November 8th 2009 @ 11:50am | Report comment
Paley – stick to calling League, rugby league or just league. League is not know in Australia or England for that matter as “rugby” so you are (intentionally?) misrepresenting the two codes!
Firestarter Bob said | November 8th 2009 @ 1:54pm | Report comment
You admit there are two codes. Yet you say that one is rugby and the other is not. Interesting.
netrug said | November 6th 2009 @ 4:19pm | Report comment
The Russian Gvernment is building a Rugby only stadium in Kazan (a league stronghold) which will hold a crowd of 3,000 and have allocated 20,000,000 roubles ( Approx $A1,000,000) for it.
The Asian RFU have already istituted a series of sevens throughout the area.
This shows the power of the Olympics and that the benefis are already being seen.
Midfielder said | November 6th 2009 @ 11:15pm | Report comment
Rugbyfuture
Interesting reading….. think you maybe miss the point … sport is about embracing the masses… you make RU out to be akin to Polo and Kerry & James ….
IMO you do RU a dis – service by the negative views you express… Moreover it invites RL to say we have one up on you. Finally by always going for the international aspects of RU you cannot but promote Football who’s annual tournaments & various international tournaments have no match no one even close.
RU would be much better served in fostering a relationship with Western Sydney and getting some juniors..
Arguably the worst part was when you said let’s get together with the AFL…. if you cannot see it let me explain in a simple way … how much RU is played in the Southern States… without RL to protect RU from the AFL… RU would be akin to the polo matches I mentioned before…
IMO RU has a place in Australia but that place needs to be grown … not reduced to Merchant bankers old boy networks…
rugbyfuture said | November 7th 2009 @ 1:06am | Report comment
sorry i didnt mean to convey that at all, what i was simply addressing was the fact that rugby league people dont seem to understand that whether or not rugby union is popular among the masses or not it will always survive because of the money, more an optimistic view for us rugby union fans than an attack against league, and that was someone else who addressed the afl partnership thingy, furthermore i don’t see rugby as competing with the afl or soccer both nationally and internationally, i do believe that they are indirect competitors but of no worry to the types of athletes who play rugby, it is only rugby league who pose a risk against rugby union going into decline because all the backs go into rugby league
westy said | November 7th 2009 @ 7:58pm | Report comment
Rugbyfuture who are rugby league people ? ….whether or not rugby union is popular among the masses or not?
It will always survive but not the way i desire ?
westy said | November 7th 2009 @ 8:37pm | Report comment
Rugbyfuture Australian rugby league professional club competition and district junior development structure is a constant reminder of what rugby union could have been in this country. It nores at us.
Whilst we rejoice at our money connections they commence their professional club season with a very competitive Australian indigenous team against NRL All stars . One day I wish we could do what those rugby league people do?
It is ironic how we may now have the money and they have the broad community connections.
rugbyfuture said | November 7th 2009 @ 10:08pm | Report comment
i do agree that the aru and the respective state unions have failed to capitalise on broad community connections, but i am stating that, in the current situation rugby union can survivebecause of its connection to money, rather than those such as paley (1st comment, rugby league people) who live to see rugby union run to ruin and think it will not survive. i do however, believe that the connection to the indigenous community in australia and the AFL and NRL is because of the strength of belief of the country and working class link with these codes, and as such if rugby union were to grasp the broad connection of a large amount of indigenous players it would also be able to conquer rugby league as the most popular rugby code in australia. some links are being gained through the indigenous scholarship programs of kings, joeys and riverview in sydney, i am not sure in other states, this is rugby capitalising on its haves, rather than have nots, but still does not impact this stigma of an elitist game. i did say in the article though, that the connection with CEO’s and Money in australia was also a burden, as well as a blessing, and i stick by the fact, that in its current situation rugby union can only use the backing of australian money until the time where it can move towards a greater community goal.
to do with community strengths, i also believe that the aru and community clubs need to take more control, as the state unions have failed (in particular NSW, as much as it is hard to say, CEO alma mater of my school) currently i live in a particularly strong rugby union community (northern suburbs of sydney) and through going to university at UWS i have been disheartened by the lack of strenght of union support for rugby union clubs in the areas this university is involved in. however, rugby union has a strength over league and union in that it is at a time where it can establish stronger, more efficient new clubs, which unlike the other codes can be created for stability in finances, which is a common modern problem of such league and aussie rules clubs.
Firestarter Bob said | November 8th 2009 @ 1:52pm | Report comment
“however, rugby union has a strength over league and union in that it is at a time where it can establish stronger, more efficient new clubs, which unlike the other codes can be created for stability in finances, which is a common modern problem of such league and aussie rules clubs.”
Oh come on! Sports fans don’t follow clubs based upon their financial well being! You can’t manufacture the tribal club nature of AFL and NRL.
And just how long must we wait for rugby union to take advantage of a financial might it has enjoyed for decades and decades? How much more financial might can be brung to rugby union that hasn’t been brung before?
Didn’t see the corporate sector get behind the ARC and the ARC clubs before the ARU pulled the plug. No one come to the aid of the ARU.
Greg said | November 8th 2009 @ 10:57am | Report comment
‘Money’ — classism will always keep rugby on life support but isn’t the key to it flourishing in Australia or elsewhere. The olympics, on the other hand, while not doing a lot for Australia, will give the sport (albeit silly-buggers 7s) a profile in places it does not have a profile. The US, China, African and larger European states will have to invest time and effort, and in some cases money.
netrug said | November 8th 2009 @ 10:35pm | Report comment
Russia has just made Rugby an official sport in their universities. This will help the game grow and be known to the “masses”.