By Darren Walton
November 8th 2009 @ 3:28am
Related coverage
Desperate Wallabies keep grand slam dream alive
The Wallabies scored a desperately-tense 18-9 victory over gallant England at Twickenham on Saturday.
In a gripping encounter, Australia trailed until the hour mark before fullback Adam Ashley-Cooper clinched the first leg of rugby’s grand slam with a powerhouse try eight minutes from time.
Ashley-Cooper, who scored Australia’s sole try in last year’s Twickenham triumph over their old foes, was mobbed by teammates after carrying four defenders over the line and planting the ball in the left-hand corner.
Matt Giteau nailed the sideline conversion to put the issue beyond doubt.
But this Test could have ended in disaster for the Wallabies, who are bidding to emulate the 1984 Australian side which famously completed a grand slam sweep of England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
With 27 players unavailable – but with Australia’s World Cup nemesis Jonny Wilkinson back for his first Test in 18 months – depleted England looked poised to spring a massive boilover after taking a 9-5 lead into halftime.
Wilkinson, incredibly also playing his first November in seven years after a storied career dogged by injuries – scored all of England’s points through a drop goal and two penalty goals.
Ultimately, though, he was upstaged by a superb man-of-the-match display from Wallabies halfback Will Genia, who was again magnificent in just his fourth Test start.
Wilkinson showed his intentions early, drilling a third-minute drop goal, the first points from their returning hero sending Twickenham’s capacity 70-strong crowd into raptures.
The veteran five-eighth doubled England’s advantage in the 10th minute after winger Peter Hynes was harshly penalised for an apparent dangerous tackle on England fullback Ugo Monye.
Australia’s first promising movement broke down when Wycliff Palu was penalised for not releasing, but it wasn’t long before the Wallabies were again on the attack.
After some patient build-up from the Australian forwards, Genia crossed for his maiden Test try, the diminutive No.9 dummying his way over from close range in the 21st minute.
Giteau’s missed conversion attempt left England 6-5 ahead.
Another Wilkinson penalty gave England their four-point halftime buffer, but Australia really should have led at the break.
England’s midfield defence looked vulnerable throughout the match, but the Wallabies continued to be their own worst enemies, either infringing with possession or turning the ball over through a lack of composure.
Close to halftime, Stephen Moore sent Benn Robinson on a storming run but, unaccustomed to find himself in such space, the Wallabies prop butchered the try when he failed to pass to Peter Hynes, who was free on his right just 15 metres from the England line.
It was more of the same from the Wallabies straight after the break when Elsom was unable to put Hynes over in the right corner after some relentless Australian attack inside the England 22.
Giteau added a 47th-minute penalty to reduce the margin to a point as Australia, with a mountain of possession, dominated the second half.
But England’s spirited defence held firm and, time after time, the Wallabies were unable to drive home their advantage.
Winger Drew Mitchell kicked away possession inside the England quarter and then, after tackle-shedding 15-metre surge, Ioane spilt the ball over the line.
Giteau finally put Australia ahead for the first time on the hour with an angled 25-metre penalty after England collapsed the scrum before Ashley-Cooper struck late .
Super 14 Tipping now live on The Roar. Join now.
Like this content? Buzz it up!
Free Email updates:
Our daily emails are only sent if there is content for the sport or that author. You can subscribe to multiple daily emails; or get the daily Roar email with all our content in it. We value privacy. More...
(120)
Lee said | November 8th 2009 @ 6:24am | Report comment
Good resuult for Wallabies but am getting sick of officials not doing their job.
The lineout that led to the Wallabes first try should have been ruled out on the full and an England throw. How do Touchies whose principle job is rasing their flag for out of bounds miss these things.
I am a neutral by the way so don’t acre who wins(probably prefer Aus to win) but still this is now the 2nd time in 2 games(tokyo) that a blatant out of bounds has been missed by the Touch judge.
Lindommer said | November 8th 2009 @ 3:42pm | Report comment
Went back and had a good look in slo-slo-mo: the ball bounced in, the TJ was very well positioned and had a good view. Correct decision.
Yes, it was close, Lee. Blatant? Pull the other one.
Lee said | November 8th 2009 @ 4:02pm | Report comment
You sure it bounced in? I have watched it a couple of times and it looked out but maybe my TV isn’t as good as yours.
From the replay I have seen, looking up the touchline from slightly in field it looks obviously out.
matt said | November 8th 2009 @ 7:17am | Report comment
And all the England knock ons and other infringements?
But I agree, the standard of officials seems to be getting worse and I’m not talking about R&M time, but forward passes, offside and knock ons.
Lee said | November 8th 2009 @ 10:46am | Report comment
As I said I am a neutral, the out on the full one was just the one that stuck in my head as being a very dodgy decision.
kingplaymaker said | November 8th 2009 @ 7:36am | Report comment
I don’t know why this article calls England ‘gallant’. They were pathetic, an embarrassement to the sport.
Better from Australia, though it’s hard to tell what that means against a childrens team.
If Palu could stop knocking on he could reverse the fortunes of the Australian pack. Genia is better and better, and Ioane will get there.
However, that’s still not enough to beat New Zealand or South Africa.
Hoy said | November 8th 2009 @ 7:37am | Report comment
Few things as I sit here bleary eyed.
Again Australias opposition were lying everywhere in the ruck. Several times when Aus were on the attack (that always seemed to fizzle out), an English prop or second rower was holding onto the tackled player when they themselves were on the ground. To counter those that say Aus do the same, I noticed when England were on the attack, several Australian players were stuck and really struggled to get to their feet so they could get back into line. I am not saying that is always the case, but shows a difference I think. Lawrence didn’t ping them for it, but instead pinged Aus for holding on several times.
Lewis Moody was in everything. What Australia would give for a flanker who is on-the-ball all the time. I have been quite on the Smith/Pockock issue, however last night Smith had a poor game I thought. Several times he missed tackles that should have been made, and he just wasn’t a force at the breakdown at all.
Wilkinson’s time out of the game with injury seemed inconsequential. Jeez he is a good footballer. France has really invigorated him. His defense has always been fantastic, but last night was the first time I really think his distribution was good as well. Pity he didn’t have great backs to take the ball on.
Borthwick played very well in the first half as England seemed to dominate lineout and be in the refs ear as well. The penalty count was heavily in their favour in the first half. More on that later. I don’t know much about this bloke, but I understand he has lots of detractors. He seemed to go well.
Two games in a row now Palu has had good games. He was hitting hard, hitting rucks well, everything people have asked of him.
Our props were fantastic I thought. The pair of them dominated, and received penalties at scrum time for their effort. I know people will say they played a weak scrum, but it didn’t stop people waxing lyrical about Sheridan when he destroyed our scrum a few years ago. Contrary to this article, I believe Robinson did bloody well to make the break, and was wise not to toss the speculator, as there was an Englishman between him and Hynes.
Genia was definitely man of the match in my opinion. He was fantastic last night. Good passing, good running, causing several problems at the ruck area. He played very well.
Digby provided great direct go forward that we have been wanting for ages. Such good strength in contact from him.
Cooper also played well for his first Test start. He kicked well, and played 5/8 most times in the first half before Gits took more control in the second. He got steamrolled once, by a rampaging Haskell but he never shirked the hard yards neither before nor after that.
I suppose a real test of the midfield will be next weekend with a strong Irish midfield as opposition.
AAC was very safe and strong at 15. I hope this is where he is left now. He is Latham-esque in his strength close to the line. Latham scored a few tries that had no right being scored, and AAC nabbed on such try last night, with his palm off, and leg driving 10 m run into the line.
I couldn’t quite understand where Lawrence was coming from with some of his penalties. I am not sure if the count evened out, but it was about 9-3 at half-time in favour of the English. Some of the penalties as I said above where for holding on, when an English player was holding the Aus player (and the English player was off his feet). It is becoming a pet hate of mine now after getting so annoyed after the Tokyo test. The English dominated the ruck, but at least Australia showed some passion in contact with some solid shots being put on.
Australian backs played well as a whole, but as a team, we seemed to push passes at the last minute, either causing knock ons, or passing to a man in a worse position. We missed about three tries that should have been. Elsom will be ruing that he was facing the wrong way to pass to an unmarked Hynes, Palu (I think) knocked on from Digby as he was on the line, and there were a few other passes that went astray.
That is about all I can think of now. Some will agree, others may not. Again, I was pretty nervous and was wondering what Channel Ten would call the coverage next week of the “Grand Slam Tour” if we lost last night.
Daniel J said | November 8th 2009 @ 8:27am | Report comment
I thought the ruck was pretty even
Parisien said | November 8th 2009 @ 9:43pm | Report comment
Fully agree with all your comments Hoy. I watched the game with an international ref at Cafe Oz here in Paris who agreed that English players were holding onto tackled players on the ground, playing the ball from the ground, and sealing off in rucks. A lot of offsides and obstructions too. Very puzzling, and glad the Wallabies stayed calm. It was clear they were dominating.
I thought England played quite well and their backrow did very well. Their lineouts were very good too. Wilko back to his best and kept them in the game, directing them around the park very well, great defence, and kept the points coming.
Great to see the positive impact of Genia, Cooper and Ioane for the Wallabies, and Giteau acknowledged Cooper’s contribution post- match.
It was great to see the Wallabies score two tries (and could have scored four more), and interesting but not surprising to see England score none but lead the kicking stats. They do admittedly kick better than the Wallabies.
Davo said | November 8th 2009 @ 7:43am | Report comment
Not sure how many of the English backline would be te first choice if they didnt have any injuries and with that in mind I thought Wilkinson was fantastic playing the way he did. The one aspect of his game that wasnt what it used to be was his line kicking but he could certainly teach Quade Cooper a thing or two about defence.
For me, it was big games by Robinson, Moore, Elsom and Palu in the forwards, Genia at half and that fine, determined run to the line by AAC that got us home. Genia was lavished with praise by the English commentary and on last night’s performance it was entirely justified. Our backs looked reasonable, everyone had their moments and made a half break at some stage but the general standard of passing was still quite poor with too many passes forcing runners to reach back or virtually halt their momentum to catch the ball. Giteau wasn’t especially great yet again at 5/8. George Smith made a few strong hits but was outplayed by Moody at the breakdown.
The game was entertaining and against my expectations, worth getting up at 1am for. I’ll give a bouquet to officials unlike above…I thought Lawrence controlled the game well even though the Wallabies were down 6-0 in the penalty count at one stage. He let the game flow, didnt nit-pick, played advantage and when scrums collapsed with the ball almost out he told the half to play it….basically he let the game take centre-stage rather than his own whilstling theatrics
kingplaymaker said | November 8th 2009 @ 7:43am | Report comment
Hoy I think the team are playing better and better, but you must remember England were risible.
Australia can certainly beat Ireland, Wales etc..with this group, but they’ll need some more high quality to get past NZ and SA.
I think Vickerman, Mcmenniman, Gasnier and Nasingayavi could make the difference.
BC said | November 8th 2009 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
Mark Gerrard?
Nick P-G said | November 8th 2009 @ 1:54pm | Report comment
Matt Carraro? I really rate him.
I agree about Gerrard. He’d easily be the 2nd best option after AAC at fullback. Excellent kicking game.
Nasingayvi? Not so much. Maybe if you had him in the squad and used him in a “horses-for-courses” fashion (i.e. playing on Bannahan).
Gasnier… maybe. In due time we will see.
Vickerman and MMM we need badly. What is the story with Dan V? Is he coming back from Europe?
And that is my two cents.
Parisien said | November 8th 2009 @ 9:45pm | Report comment
Gasnier is doing nothing special here in France. don’t believe the hype!
Nick P-G said | November 9th 2009 @ 4:42pm | Report comment
I never did but surely he is doing fine? Doesn’t he start sometimes?
Starting for Stade Francis surely puts you at least in a Super 14 22.
Maybe Link talking about them hiring players by marketability wasn’t bs.
Grandpabhaile said | November 8th 2009 @ 8:23am | Report comment
Looks like the old order is shifting. At least Leicester put on a show, but the UK teams were pretty average and Australia not much better.
They’re going to have to step up several levels if they are going to play and compare to Ireland, France, NZ and SA, next year.
Daniel J said | November 8th 2009 @ 8:25am | Report comment
Knives Out? suddenly quiet…….
stillmissit said | November 8th 2009 @ 8:37am | Report comment
As his apologist he did say he didnt have a computer this weekend.
tarpo said | November 8th 2009 @ 8:41am | Report comment
KO did say he would not be near a computer for the weekend
Hermin said | November 8th 2009 @ 10:03am | Report comment
Don’t worry he’ll be back all guns blazing in a day or two. He was taken to task big time on another thread so I look forward to his proclamations of self righteousness, claims of second rate teams, poor reffing and England and Wales playing the better rugby even though they lost. I’m sure he’ll bleat on and on about Carters high tackle yet will fail to mention Leonard being clearly kicked in the head.
He will then deny that he ever said England were a better team and that the injury list will have grown to 40 players. every single player in England will rate better than Australia Genia aside maybe. He will try to shoot anyone down who has a differing opinion throw forward stats and opinions straight from knives out fact book which most of us now are not entirely true.
pothale said | November 8th 2009 @ 10:18am | Report comment
Hermin, any fair reading of KO’s posts would give a different picture than the one you venomously paint. Though that’s not untypical of your writing.
KO said he was going to Nuremberg for the weekend to watch Haye fight Valuev – looks like he picked the right match.
Hence his non-appearance here.
In my view, England were definitely the poorer of the two teams. A lot of people thought Wilkinson played well, but I thought the interchanging of role with Geraghty left him undone at times. England needed to fire more probing kicks downfield to get field position and contest the lineouts in which they did well, I thought.
Genia was superb, sniping and passing at will, and his try was nicely opportunistic, even if England were lacking in defence to let him through.
I found it a somewhat subdued game, despite the occasion, and look forward to a more lively game next week, now that Oz have a win under their belt, even thought it was against ‘plodding NH opposition’.
Australia’s position as third best in the world is steadier after this match.
NZ v Wales match was ok – nothign to write home about. It was kick dominated, and Wales weren’t good enough to get over the line. Wyn-Jones was disgracefully supported with his intercept and break towards the end – where were the speedy supporting Welsh backs? Absent. Poor decision-making in the end, when they might have got a try or at least 3 more points on the board, if cooler heads had been maintained. NZ were value for their win.
Hermin said | November 8th 2009 @ 10:58am | Report comment
The only thing venomus in this site is you and KO constantly belittling everyone who tends to disagree with you. You both have an almighty chip on your shoulder and are never far from each other. I couldn’t give two hoots where he is pothale. The status quo remains if you have actually been reading many others too are getting sick and tired of his constant self proclomation of righteousness on all things rugby. Go back and have a read mate because it never ceases to amaze how far up his butt you are and to be honest I question if you and he are the same person.
On that note I think I have summed it up pretty nicely on what his reaction will be. funny how when one has an oppossing view to you and he. It is venomous and provocative when I would say the reverse is true!
pothale said | November 8th 2009 @ 11:47am | Report comment
Hermin – have you anything constructive to say about the actual matches or is it always personal bile with you?
I don’t belittle everyone who disagrees with me. That is a lie.
I don’t have an almighty chip on my shoulder. About what? Where’s the evidence for that assertion?
I don’t accept that “many others are sick and tired of constant self-proclamation of righteousness on all things rugby” since we all like to give our views and opinions on rugby matters – strongly held or not – which is what this board is about.
I am not up anyone’s butt, as you so elegantly put it. But hey you’re entitled to your opinion.
I am not the same person as KO. You can put your mind at rest.
You gave a poor, inaccurate and purposely inflammatory summary of the viewpoint and character of a regular contributor, in their absence from this forum. And you know it.
That’s my view of what you said. Others can make up their own minds.
Hermin said | November 8th 2009 @ 6:51pm | Report comment
Read the thread buddy and you can clearly see others frustration at your man and his views.
Then run along and don’t bother me amy longer because I don’t have time for people such as yourself.
Knives Out said | November 9th 2009 @ 5:07am | Report comment
Get out of my butt, Pothale.
pothale said | November 9th 2009 @ 6:00am | Report comment
….And into my car, yeah.
I know that song.
Daniel J said | November 8th 2009 @ 10:41am | Report comment
Haha yea i figured as such, will be interesting to see the thread in the next couple of days
hayden said | November 8th 2009 @ 11:23am | Report comment
Here’s Knives here, pictured in Nurembug: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/gallery/2009/nov/07/david-haye-gallery?picture=355312441
pothale said | November 8th 2009 @ 11:49am | Report comment
LOL! Now that is funny. Can’t wait til he sees that.
OldManEmu said | November 8th 2009 @ 7:10pm | Report comment
Travis Bickle has nothing on Hemjay/Hermin
Hermin said | November 8th 2009 @ 7:13pm | Report comment
Nice to see the troll army is in full swing
Hermin said | November 8th 2009 @ 7:17pm | Report comment
Funny that how its the same three musketeers banging out the same old accusations. Whats your problem oldtimer don’t you like people being a bit up front with you and your croonies. Or is it simple that you can not accept someone having a very short sharp and blunt opinion?
This is an opinion site is it not.
Funny how you and your friend Pothale only selectively read you can clearly see in this thread alone others also have taken issue with your leaders views but funny how you only want to have a go at me. pack mentality is it not. pick a target and go for it throw all the accusations and sarcastic arrogant insults you like however when you get a few back you run crying foul.
grow up kids you really are quite juvenile
OldManEmu said | November 8th 2009 @ 8:58pm | Report comment
Hey there Hermin
What’s a croonie? Is that like when you got to McDonalds and you get a free toy….”for a limited time only with every Big Mac customers receive a minature doll of thier choice from Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra, Harry Connick Junior, and Bert Blackawaxsack”
pothale said | November 9th 2009 @ 6:08am | Report comment
“…Bert Blackawaxsack”
Nice one, OME.
I love the notion of you not liking ‘people being a bit up front with you’. In future, I’m gonna just come right out and, by God, I’m gonna half-tell you what I think of you. OK?
Yours in croonieship
Pothale
Knives Out said | November 9th 2009 @ 12:47am | Report comment
Cheeky bugger, Hayden. A great night… I don’t feel so great today, however.
hayden said | November 9th 2009 @ 1:15am | Report comment
C’mon, that is you, right?
Matt0931 said | November 8th 2009 @ 8:31am | Report comment
Yep the Wallabies played well. A lot of kicking in the first half but it was great to see some running in the second half.
England just about played to script with a lot of kicking, drop goals etc and generally playing their game plan completely around johnny Wilkinson, although when they did decide to run they actually looked really really good.
Monye looks like he will devlop into a great rugby player.
It was good to see Cooper playing fly-half during the game, it gave Giteau more room to play when he was out wide. I think the only real weak player last night was Mitchell…oh and the ref of course.
stillmissit said | November 8th 2009 @ 8:50am | Report comment
Great game and enough to keep the running cheer squad happy. In fact too much in the first half when we hadn’t earnt the right to run.
Pluses forwards – Horwill, Palu and Elsom had great games. Smith and Moore were very good.
Minus forwards – Ben Robinson what a total waste of time in the hard stuff, absent from most breakdowns AGAIN! This man is the perennial pillar. The other Ben absent without a ticket. These guys measure there game in 2 areas, the scrum and running around in midfield.
Generally too much one off stuff again. No lifters in the lineout and NO competing on their throw in. This running backwards and forwards combined with getting to the lineout late are my pet hates.
Wilkinson was man of the match and played all over Giteau and showed his real class. Lewis Moody was very strong as well. Some of their backs look as though they could become dangerous come RWC time.
Backs – Genia great again how much upside has this young guy got? AAC another match winning try, more than a fluke. Hynes excellent again and the mid combination looked like a work in progress but worth sticking with.
Giteau totally predictable and poor kicking in field.
Very average reffing again from Bryce Lawrence with both sides offside many times from breakdown (check 16:52 for example) and strange inconsistent calls about ball out and hands off at B/D.
Very watchable game and we have a captain to replace Mortlock.
Jez said | November 8th 2009 @ 9:38am | Report comment
Stillmissit,
I agree with most of what you’ve said but there is one point that I have to take issue with.
Neither Smith nor Moore were even remotely good.
Smith (once again) failed to cause a single turnover at the breakdown, getting totally outplayed by Lewis Moody. Even his work around the park was pretty average – missing a couple of tackles and once again getting in the way by trying to slot himself into first receiver. Moore was alright around the field but his lineout throwing has degenerated and is now no better than TPN’s. Given TPN is a much better player around the field I can’t see how Moore will start the next test.
stillmissit said | November 8th 2009 @ 10:00am | Report comment
hi Jez – I think that Smith did enough in terms of around the field play and was first to the breakdown many times. I agree that Moody got over him and he played one of the best games I have seen him play.
Moores throwing is a different matter. I watched the lineouts closely (as an ex 2nd Row) and I thought his throwing was good enough to win us ball what was missing was jumpers timing and lack of quality lifters. The forwards get to the lineout late then the jumpers run backwards then forwards and jump, the lifeters don’t get it right and the ball can be easily won by the oppostion set up and ready to throw up jumpers. We have been doing this during the TN’s and prior in Jones time. It is crap and has been proven many times it doesn’t work, how much education do we need?
TPN is a better player and if he was fit I would agree with you. Still Moore is not a weakness in the pack.
Justin said | November 8th 2009 @ 10:40am | Report comment
My take was a little different to your SM.
Of the forwards I thought Palu started well but went missing in the second half. Horwill was decent along with Elsom but far from great. Smith was virtually invisible besides one big hit. He missed tackles and allowed Geraghty to make at least one break with a pathetic attempt to shut him down. Moody absolutely gave him a lesson in OS play and he is not exactly a flyer! On potholes match thread I called for him to be dragged… At least Robinson got a ruck penalty unlike Smith!
Alexander got hit in a great tackle early by JW (thats what happens when you run high) and didnt get involved much after that.
Genia was brilliant, just brilliant. Cooper played much of first receiver and had a good game (although the heart is in the mouth at times). He is a rare talent and can unlock any defence with feet, slight of hand or deception. His kicking was decent too. Gits tried hard and was OK but Cooper was better at organsing and creating the play. He made some good tackles but should not have tried to go through JW so often!
Didnt think Digby stamped himself a 13. He doesnt have the skill set to play there at Test level and continually came in to make a hit which could be costly against a side who doesnt take 3 minutes to clear the ball from the ruck. Having said that I dont think we used Digby nearly enough as a strike weapon which was a great shame.
I thought the back 3 were OK but none had great matches. Hynes seemed to go into his shell a bit after that rubbish pen for a spear. Mtchell was OK but never really got too involved. AAC scored a brilliant try (becoming his signature, big right hand fend with the legs pumping and taking over numerous defenders) but his kicking was wasteful and to me should be at 13. He doents counter nearly enough from his own 10m. He is strong and should be getting us back in our half comfortably with his pace and power but instead uses average bombs and we turn it over.
What is happening with the lineout? Sorry to say it but we are missing Sharpe BIGTIME here. Both hookers are struggling on the throw but gee TPN makes some tackles when he is on the field!
Overall about 6 out of 10 for me. We must improve greatly at LO time to compete with Ireland next week
stillmissit said | November 8th 2009 @ 3:36pm | Report comment
Justin not too far off one another but with Horwill I have to take exception. He was often the only forward at the breakdown with Elsom the other player conspicuous. ‘Pillar’ Robinson and ‘ruffed up by a 5/8′ Alexander were totally missing in the breakdown, I don’t value props making 30m upfield UNLESS they have done their hard work first and he doesn’t do the tough stuff.
Q. how can Horwill get from the set piece to the breakdown when the other tight forwards can’t.
Smith didint have one of his best days but he was often the lead tackler, apart from the miss on Geraghty that you pointed out. I felt better with him out there and I thought the structure of the game was tighter due to him being there.
What is it with Hynes, I must be missing something. I have him in my top few every time he plays for the Wallabies but he takes some big hits here. He tackles strongly, runs counter about the best in the team and is strong in the air. He also knows his way to the line.
I thought that Wilkinson, Moody and Geraghty, were the Poms best. The full back looks dangerous but has little to feed on.
ohtani's jacket said | November 8th 2009 @ 10:14am | Report comment
“Desperate Wallabies keep grand slam dream alive”? That’s a bit dramatic, isn’t it?
pothale said | November 8th 2009 @ 10:24am | Report comment
Not for the headline writers it’s not.
NickSA said | November 8th 2009 @ 10:19am | Report comment
To be quite honest i thought the aussies and the all blacks played very well!! The NH is well below the standard of the SH.
I think the SH teams are going to white wash the NH teams…
hayden said | November 8th 2009 @ 10:53am | Report comment
The two tough games, Ireland and wales, are yet to come. Hats off to the Wallas, this was a game they had to win, and they got the job done. To have stumbled at the first hurdle would have been unthinkable.
pothale said | November 8th 2009 @ 10:21am | Report comment
You say this on the basis of two matches. Or three if you count the Tigers v SA match last night.
At least wait until next weekend.
Greg said | November 8th 2009 @ 10:34am | Report comment
The Poms were surprisingly good and to their credit they were prepared to play a bit of real rugby. Aussies have to fix that bloody lineout — combined with the penalties in the first half, they were on their way to committing suicide again. Thank gawd 2012’s best international fullback James O’Connor was learning the game on the bench today. Great to see a bit of steel and resolve in the Wallabies play. The erratically brilliant Quade Cooper was more brilliant than erratic for a change and Genia was a gem. Ashley-Cooper’s try was an inspiration. Not sure why Smith is getting heat, he was everywhere — missed two ‘chase’ tackles, but he pushed himself like a madman. Palu too — thought that was one his best international games in attack and defence. Great to see a win and even more satisfying cause they had to overcome Bryce Lawrence’s tendency to ref one team at a time. Ireland will be far tougher, but maybe, just maybe, the switch has been flicked.
Wallabies would do well to examine the All Blacks’ process against Wales today….those pesky kiwis played percentage to nullify the atmosphere then suddenly and brilliantly played expansively and at pace. At Croke Park, the Aussies will win if they maintain their composure early … win their lineouts … improve their midfield kicking game and don’t let O’Connor or Turner on the field until late in the second half.
MarkH said | November 8th 2009 @ 10:36am | Report comment
Not bad, the defence was good. Cooper played very well. I thought the Poms got away with a bit in the rucks etc. The ol white line fever buggered a couple, may have blown the score right out had they just had a little more patience.
JTG said | November 8th 2009 @ 11:40am | Report comment
I don’t think it’s time to pop the champagne just yet!! Improved but the allblacks would have put 20points on us in just the first half.Luckily for us the Pom’s game plan with all of that first half possesion was to give it to Johnny, it wasn’t until the game was won did they start to have a serious go at attacking. White line fever was alive & well last night. I am sorry but I just can’t see the good game that Palu had??? We need a decent no 8. Our lineout continues to be a bit of a worry but I certainly don’t think “Marshmellow” Sharpe is the answer.
Having spent a hard super 14 season at Suncorp Stadium I was pleasently surprised by Quade Cooper, then again we weren’t playing a kiwi team.
Anyway at least it’s a win finally!!!!!
Nashi said | November 8th 2009 @ 11:54am | Report comment
The weather was a blessing and finally the Roar crowd got their wishes in selection terms.
From the outset, as expected, the English played a smart positional kicking game and led through a strong ineout with 2 early steals.
It was great to see Johnny back on the field, without him England would have been soundly beaten. Maybe its my poor memory but I don’t recall him kicking long distance before yet he struck from 52m and rattled the upright well above the cross bar. By contrast the Australian kicking from hand early was direction less. Our back 3 must learn to kick high balls just outside the opposition 22 and chase well not least because it makes it so much easier for the chasers to time their run and contest the ball. Watch SA and the way it continually lands in the right spot.
My heart was in my mouth as Cooper was lucky not to be picked off in an early wide pass to Mitchell. It may have been that this early let off cautioned him to underplay his hand with smart and far more effective short side options. Perhaps, unlike with the Reds, he does not feel he has to win the game single handed.
The English backline, Wilkinson excepted, were dour, Bannerman lumbering with some kind of serious skin disorder, Hipkiss strong though predictable and Gerharty had some nice steps but offered little in support of his champion 10. Whenever Johnny was otherwise indisposed the England backline was frequently set too far behind the gain line to make any impact.
For Australia meanwhile, Palu looked to have his mind on the job with some strong early carries but can someone dip his mits in blu tac before he goes on. An 18th minute break by Hynes and Genia showed the worth of playing the ball through the hands. Genias try evidence that Australia were always in the game and just needed to be patient and the gaps would surely come.
Commentary talked up Genia all night, nice to have 0 commercial breaks, maybe this helped the spectacle because for many periods it was a free flowing game. I found it a bit annoying when they switched to replays we didn’t see, with sound effects to boot! While Australia could have missed Mortlock it was a pleasant change not to have 13 and 2 confused in the call now that the Mortlock/Moore body double combo has gone. Must say I barely missed an Aussie commentator, not once hankering for a Kearns pearl of wisdom.
I thought Lawrence had a pretty fair game even if it was 30 minutes before Australia got their first penalty. Some of them (Hynes maybe) looked a bit harsh but Alexander needs to learn how to enter from behind last feet, giving away 2 early penalties through laziness. Fat Cat won a turnover penalty at 35th minute which seemed fair. Contrary to what others may say, in my opinion he didn’t bomb a try as the pass to Hynes required more than could be reasonably expected of a prop.
As for some others in gold, Gitteau continues to go solo at the try line when a back line move was required. Once in each half he took the ball up rather than spreading it wide when England’s defence was stretched. His saving grace was his almost flawless kicking. Cooper’s options offered more promise and will bear more fruit over time. It was worth noting the only backline try came from Giteau skirting left and passing, breakdown, pass left again to AAC with work to do. AAC was so good in tight space and needs to be up in the line whenever close to tryline.
Ioane is not yet quite the game breaker he was in S14 but his time will come as he gains more assurance in his position, With little/no competition (forget Cross, once again out of position in defense) he can afford the time to grow into the position.
And what can we say of the golden 9? Genia seems able to choose the correct option aside from his other skills of quick clearance, in tight passing, running game, timing and a good kicking game. Poor Burgess will be practicing his side line cheer squad technique for some time to come. Burgess never lacked effort but Genia has all that and more. A memorable effort!
Lineouts seemed less contentious in the second half with only one turnover and plenty of quality ball. So the second row was solid rather than spectacular. The breakdown was a different matter, Smith clearly outplayed by a fearless Moody who had several turnovers and try saving tackles (Ioane in the 56th minute was a gem). Having said that a great counter-rucking turnover at 62nd minute brought the biggest smile of the night from Dingo, a pleasure savoured by a Kiwi at heart.
The scrums seemed marginally going Australia’s way and More and TPN combine to offer us a strong hooker for a full 80. Wings were OK, riskless rather than breathtaking.
As the clock ran down England’s backline seemd to run out of options resorting to field goals and chip kicks as Australias defensive structure held firm to keep England tryless. Captain Rocky led by example with some good runs and great hits, Bannerman must have lost half a kilo of ink with Elsom’s tackle late in the game. He looked thrilled to be lifting his first piece of glass/silverware, the relief palpable.
Well done Wobblies, 6 out of 10, a little more clinical finishing and the Irish may just be in serious trouble.
Justin said | November 8th 2009 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
Nashi – All in all I think thats a pretty fair summation of the match.
Parisien said | November 8th 2009 @ 11:44pm | Report comment
Great comments. I thought Alexander had been selected for his mobility around the park as well but he didn’t show much of this last night. Maybe he spent all his energy in the scrums? I often notice him standing back a little…
On the other hand I thought Horwill and Chisolm were more involved or effective than recently. Is this because they have lifted or improved, or because the opposition was weaker than NZ and SA, so they could express themselves a bit more?
fox said | November 9th 2009 @ 4:47am | Report comment
Thought Lawrence reffed a terrible game, continuously penalising attacking rucks when defensive players were clearly impeding – and if he had policed the approach to the rusk (i.e. from the side) equally, England would have been penalised more often in that forst 30 (or at all). Borthwick had a great game with the Ref Grooming.
All in all I agree with the review though. One thing that hasn’t been said (probably because he was good in attack) is how poor Cooper was in defense. He did tackle his opposite pretty well (all 83kg of him) but was mowed over in open field late in the game by an English forward, did not support Giteau at the breakdown when he (incorrectly) took on the line and did not clear out at all except to run in and lean on someone. He needs to stop playing the showboat and do some work!
Digby was awesome and really validated those of us who have been shouting for him at 13. Some of us have said numerous times we prefer him there even if Mortlock was fit. Really encouraging. Genia great. Elsom excellnt (minus the pass), Palu had one of his good days. Smith poor. Horwill excellent around the field but useless at lineout time. Alexander and Robinson good. AAC excellent as was Hynes. Mitchell’s contribution wasn’t apparent. Gits average.
That is all.
bennalong said | November 8th 2009 @ 12:06pm | Report comment
A game of two halves, indeed.
The reason? Bryce Lawrence!
What was the first half about?
Had to have been scripted. Scrum turns through 90, penalises us! Dodgy penalties to us, Bugger all to England. Irritating prods about the Wallabies closing the gap, or being over the mark
It was a perfect example of how a ref can keep a team on the back foot .
So what happened in the second half? Inexplicably he took his foot of our throat(s)
Hoy, I liked your summary. Even handed and every point I agreed with. Heaps of commitment from everyone
The energy sapping defensive effort of the first half failed to sap their commitment and they were able to ( or were ALLOWED by Lawrence to) come back over the top of England. I believe this will give the team confidence a tremendous boost, and confidence is everything in sport. But we need two on the trot
So who’s the next ref we have to beat?
Epi said | November 8th 2009 @ 5:39pm | Report comment
That would be Kaplan. He is a very formidable – maybe unbeatable – opponent.
OldManEmu said | November 8th 2009 @ 8:49pm | Report comment
That’d be the same Kaplan that almost singlehandedly ended Al Baxter’s career right?
Nick S said | November 8th 2009 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
Elsom is yet to show this ‘World’s Best’ form that ‘won’ the Heineken Cup. In terms of his performances for Australia I thought he was much more dominant last year than he has been this year. Here’s hoping his game lifts soon.
Agreement alround with the comments re Smith, not a single turn over or dive-onto-loose-ball that the England number 7 did on at least one very useful occassion.
The ref was miserable. In the first half I was confident it wasn’t who was committing the offence, rather that someone had but he was only able to lift one arm – his left arm. Perhaps he was carrying an injury ala the Australian cricket team?
Johnny’s opening drop goal gave me heart flutters but Australia did well to restrict him after that, especially considering how dominant he was over Giteau (whoever pointed that out was spot on).
Brett said | November 8th 2009 @ 1:24pm | Report comment
Why did free to air tv station, one HD have to taunt the Australian tv audience last night at aest 3 am with such a charming pro England commentary…
Cattledog said | November 8th 2009 @ 1:39pm | Report comment
Could you imagine the development opportunities at Aust Schoolboy level for Rugby’s future with the money they are wasting on Giteau. His sister performs better!
bennalong said | November 8th 2009 @ 2:04pm | Report comment
Yes, Giteau’s performance was not great.
Last two games he’s take the ball to the line………relentlessly! And gets tackled with the ball.
Unlike him……….as though he’s got something to prove, eh? Give him time. He’s taken a big demotion and only got the ten back after Barnes was injured. I suspect he’ll lose it to Cooper next game. My think is he’s showing he’s not just a fancy boy and he IS committed
Now there’s a bloke who has improved heaps along with his confidence. His (Cooper’s) kicking game is generally better than Gits’.
The other guy who must grow into his role is Rocky. Now that he’s NOT Captain, George is starting to talk. I think Deans will work on getting Rocky going when he’s settled in. He seems to be being held back by positioning at present, and is not being fed to run “the channel” with Palu.( who played well both halves despite previous comment by Justin)
True Tah said | November 8th 2009 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
bennalong, I wouldnt be too harsh on Giteau, Wilkinson was pretty much carrying the whole English backline Im surprised he didnt piggyback them off the ground, and Giteau was never able to get past him…I was very impressed with Jonny’s overall play, the chip kick and offload was excellent and in defence, he picked up Mark Chisholm and drove him back. IMO its great to see him back in test match rugby, and I hope he sticks around till 2011.
Justin said | November 8th 2009 @ 8:15pm | Report comment
Bennelong – I think Palu could be anything but at the moment he is a fraction of his potential. I expect more from him. His first half I thought was pretty good despite one or two errors. IMO his second half was not as good as his first.
Having said that I wrote on another thread during the match that Smith should have been dragged but knowing Deans it would be Palu who made way for Pocock and so it proved to be.
From what I have seen Deans is very stubborn in his selection and match day tactics. He talks about playing whats in front of you yet doesnt do that himself. Last night with Smith was a case in point as was JOC in Auckland?
ThelmaWrites said | November 8th 2009 @ 10:15pm | Report comment
Yeah, and poor Alexander really looked knackered from about the 63rd minute, but was only replaced by Dunning after suffering cramps in the 76th. Maybe Deans wasn’t too confident of Dunning?
bennalong said | November 8th 2009 @ 2:35pm | Report comment
On another note, the AllBlacks showed against Wales how much progress they’ve made since losing to the French. They played a comfortable, controlled game against a committed Welsh outfit, and Carter was as dominant in that game as Wilkinson in ours. But better.
That said, I couldn’t help wondering how much better the Welsh would have gone with a NH ref policing the breakdown. That idiot Joubert, like most SH refs including Lawrence, doesn’t seem to realize you can’t penalise a guy for not releasing AFTER a ruck is formed.(Well of course you can and he does) Once a team mate is standing over the tackled player no-one from the defending team has a right to handle the ball. Now the quickly arriving AB’s (I’m not saying they’re not good) will commit to the breakdown fast and in numbers, most of whom will end up all over the ball.
This part of rugby is unattractive and unfair and it must be fixed.
It gave the ELV’s a bad name and was completely foreign to what most of the changes were about.
Rugby traditionally abhors men on the ground unless they’re injured. That was the purpose of the ruck,…..no hands, must be on your feet, ergo the only way to get the ball is to ruck it.
I’m sick of people saying ‘you’ll never get rucking back’. It implies it’s much more dangerous than it is, or that you can’t police it or restrict its use to older players. If you have a difficult problem GO BACK TO WHEN IT WAS LAST WORKING
Unfortunately the modern solution is to go off on yet another tangent
In one stroke it RUCKING solves the breakdown and I don’t have to put up with Kiwis thinking I’m a moaner because they get away with exploiting loose interpretation of the rules and destroying quick recycling by the attacking team.
They still believe in preserving their historical reputation as the best rugby players in all aspects of the game, including cheating.
It’s morally bad for them to get away with it and they must be helped ie STOPPED !!!
bennalong said | November 8th 2009 @ 3:02pm | Report comment
True Tah,
I totally agree. Wilkinson’s play was admirable.
And I was making a plea for understanding where Giteau is at present
My point is Gits has been pumped up to think of himself as the contender for the World’s Best pivot role for a couple of years now and it looks like Robbie agrees with a fair number of us who want him at inside centre. This is asking the driver to sit in the back. Most don’t like it.
To be given the role as a fill in ain’t easy!
Blinky Bill from Bellingen said | November 8th 2009 @ 3:23pm | Report comment
Ah the electricity is finally back on and flood waters are keeping us home. Thank goodness for the internet. Let’s see what’s happening on Roar.
Must say say some good comments about last nights game. Even if we don’t all agree, we’re at least civil.
Since the best observations have already been made, allow me to add my 5c worth if I may.
* I really enjoyed the Pommie commentators. Best comment when we kept stuffing up try after try “it seems actually harder to not score than to score. Yet Australia has managed it”..or words to that effect. My thoughts exactly and they had me chuckling.
* Didn’t like the camera work. In then out. Up then down. It made it hard to actually see what was going on.
* Not sure what to make of Ioane at OC. AAC seems to better choice. No doubt Robbie will persist. Is Ioane an option at FB?
* I thought the Poms played good positive Rugby and really tested our defence.
* So happy that Jonny Wilkinson is fit & healthy again. What a talent and a joy to watch.
* AAC’s try had Mitchell & Cooper pushing and shoving him. Why don’t we see this idea more often? Getting behind Palu when he was close to the line may have got him over. Is it legal?
* My pet hate of late = kick offs with runners in front of the ball. (why aren’t refs & assistant refs picking this up?)
Cattledog said | November 8th 2009 @ 3:55pm | Report comment
Is it just me or are the Aussie cameramen the best in the business? The camera work last night (both tests) was appauling as has been much of the South African camerawork (I get direct SA satellite feed where I am).
On another issue, Wilkinson is such a gr8 player, I really thought he was just a ‘pretty boy’ kicker until the 2003 WC where he not only broke our hearts with his kicking, but for the first time that I had really noticed, had a wonderful defensive game. Pulled Mortlock down several times when tries were on. I agree with earlier posts, would be wonderful to see him remain fit for 2011. Like Carter, you must appreciate talent like that and enjoy watching them, regardless of the team they play for.
I remember being at that memorable Bledisloe game at the new Olympic Stadium in Sydney where we were down 20 something zip after 5 or so minutes, fought back then had Lomu again break our hearts at the end. It was wonderful not only witnessing the specticle but also leaving the ground feeling we had all just witnessed the greatest game of rugby ever as part of the biggest rugby crowd ever. Even the Kiwis were humble in victory. What a spectacle, what a game. I don’t lose faith that we can return to those games, perhaps with some more tweeking of laws and players, coaches and officials taking a positive attitude toward the game.
stillmissit said | November 8th 2009 @ 4:04pm | Report comment
Cattledog – I was thinking the same thing watching the replay from Fox this morning. Whilst we never saw the offence of the moment replayed but we did see the try or a Pommie run upfield replayed about a million times.
Aussies are the best at this work, daylight second, must come from the cricket coverage.
Wilkinson was superb and I hope that Giteau’s ego will allow him to watch that performance and learn a few things.
Dean Pantio said | November 8th 2009 @ 4:04pm | Report comment
Aussie cameramen/ production teams are very good Cattledog.
Wilkinson is a very good talent, it’s just a pity for him he’s surrounded by donkeys. I don’t recall him tackling Mortlock last night…
As for the “greatest game”; the reason Kiwis were more humble than usual is because they recognised they had been outplayed for 60mins of the test.
Cattledog said | November 8th 2009 @ 4:08pm | Report comment
DP, I was still on the thread of the 2003 WC, sorry…but wasn’t Mortlock playing hooker? lol
Hermin said | November 8th 2009 @ 7:05pm | Report comment
I don’t buy into this being outplayed for so many minutes theory.
A game of rugby is 80 minutes long, it doesn’t matter one bit how long you were the more dominant side. All that matters is who has the most points at the end of the 80. Pretty simple really, we break games down into we were better for 50 minutes etc to make ourselves feel good when we lose.
Reality is the team with the most points at the end, it does not matter when they score them as long as they score more than their oppositionn is the better team it really is that simple.
Colin N said | November 9th 2009 @ 12:33am | Report comment
“Is it just me or are the Aussie cameramen the best in the business?”
I actually think the British are the best, but I agree yesterday was shocking. SKY are getting like the French
OldManEmu said | November 8th 2009 @ 6:38pm | Report comment
BBFB – AAC’s try was a gem and it did appear that he received assistance from a few team mates, but from my close viewing of the replays I think it was pretty much a very good case of the ball carrier sliding through two tacklers, getting his shoulders through and then good leg drive.
As for is it legal, you bet. For all purposes a maul had formed when AAC was grabbed by the two English defenders and if his team mates drove in behind him they were simply joining the maul.
Assisting the ball carrier to drive through the tackle when contact is made is a skill that teams practice regularly at training. It is variously known as a latch or hammer.
Cheers.
stillmissit said | November 8th 2009 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
Blinky – you can put as many as you like behind the ball carrier to push them down field and over the line if you want to as long as you dont obstruct the opposition.
I’m feeling better mate, I guess you are as well? Beating the Poms is always such a great pleasure.
Blinky Bill from Bellingen said | November 8th 2009 @ 4:51pm | Report comment
stillmissit – Cheers for the info. What is it about players and their lack of leg drive to get across the line (he says from the comfort of his lounge room)? I’d love to see Palu just put his head down, hit the gas and pump those legs – ala AAC – to score meat pies. I well remember Sharpey falling over in the Bled with just the 1/2 back to beat & the try line begging.
Yep feeling heaps better. Wasn’t sure about getting out of bed at 1am. Pleased I did, the boys need our support.
Nashi said | November 8th 2009 @ 5:44pm | Report comment
Blinky, I’m from your neck of the woods, luckily the TV coverage was un-interrupted. Rain easing tomorrow, thank God!
Pippinu said | November 8th 2009 @ 4:24pm | Report comment
Match winning try at the 70th – no points against in the 2nd half – almost the complete reverse of what we have experienced of late!! (albeit against superior opposition, arguably).
Regardless – it’s all part of learning to win games.
OldManEmu said | November 8th 2009 @ 6:26pm | Report comment
Did you see the post match interview of Lewis Moody
Interviewer: “Great game today Lewis. You were in everything but a shit sandwich”.
Moody: “Cheers. I dont fancy bread.”
I thought Moody a clear man of match.I have never really rated Moody. I saw one of his first games for England against the Eagles, live at Boxer Stadium San Francisco and that day he was comprehensively outplayed by his opponent Kort Scubert. Since I have not ever really been that impressed neither, admittedly only seeing his occasional game for England.
He really played a great game; Smith was virtually invisible.
I was quite surprised by the quality of the game, admittedly half ruined by the referee who was intent on punishing the attacking team. Good Lord he had a crumpet of a game, missed off sides, knock ons, had no control of the scrum, and simply did not appear to up to the standard. It must piss the players off no end.
Wasn’t the defence from both teams excellent, although Hynes must wonder what on earth he did wrong when he was penalised early for a lifting tackle. The referee could be heard to tell him “You need to be careful”. Good Grief.
I had predicted after RWC2007 that it would be a rapid descent for England Rugby and a long periodof re-buildingbut I am revising that view after seeing yesterday’s effort. If Wilkinson can stay fit he can lead them back to the top or thereabouts. Any person who wants to suggest that a fully fit Wilkinson is not the best 10 in World Rugby should eat the bread that Lewis throws away.
Dean Pantio said | November 8th 2009 @ 7:05pm | Report comment
Dan Carter is better.
OldManEmu said | November 8th 2009 @ 7:11pm | Report comment
Are you hungry Dean?
Dean Pantio said | November 8th 2009 @ 7:27pm | Report comment
I’ve already eaten some Australian game, thanks.
OldManEmu said | November 8th 2009 @ 8:47pm | Report comment
Dean I must tell you the joke that John Mitchell once told me,very funny. It involves Helen Clarke, Carlos Spencer, a packed Eden Park, and Nels………oh thats right. Mitch said Kiwi’s do not find it funny because they are incapable of laughing at themselves.
Danny said | November 8th 2009 @ 11:20pm | Report comment
No old man kiwis don’t laugh with Mitch they laugh at him – actually they laugh at WA rugby for hiring him. And for keeping him this year. Now that’s funny!
fox said | November 9th 2009 @ 4:49am | Report comment
I think Danny’s comment validates your observation on the kiwi psyche, OME
katzilla said | November 9th 2009 @ 5:50am | Report comment
‘Mitch said Kiwi’s do not find it funny because they are incapable of laughing at themselves.’
Maybe Kiwis don’t laugh at Mitch’s jokes because hes a tool?
Watch some Flight of the Conchords if you want to watch Kiwi self deprecating humour, now thats funny. Jokes from ex-kiwi mercenaries with the personailty of a tree stump don’t really bring the house down.
Britt and Germaine deliver jokes with a flat affect to take the puss out of some of our lifeless kiwi comrades, Mitchell is one of those lifeless Kiwi comrades.
More generalistions please.
fox said | November 9th 2009 @ 11:31am | Report comment
I agree, the Conchords are v. funny and self deprecating. It comes about by spending cinsiderable time outside one’s own country.
Dean Pantio said | November 9th 2009 @ 5:35pm | Report comment
You missed it. Bad luck OME.
Parisien said | November 8th 2009 @ 11:32pm | Report comment
OME, I think England’s descent as shown by their play and results began just after 2003, and in fact they have been improving steadily since the unexpected showing in 2007 and dare I say it, the appointment of Johnson and Smith. Their last 6N was their best showing since 2003.
Yes, Wilkinson was awesome last night, as I expected he would be having watched some of his recent games with Toulon, and he even attempted the little chip over the top again which earned him a great try recently. So too was Moody who has been up and down throughout his career, and was definitely up last night.
adam said | November 8th 2009 @ 7:48pm | Report comment
englands passing was poor at times they looked like rugby leauge players just lobbing the ball all over the place
Blinky Bill from Bellingen said | November 8th 2009 @ 9:46pm | Report comment
adam – How do you mean? My observations of Rugby League have been quite the opposite, with slick accurate passing finding the man in traffic as compared to some of the harbour bridge style stuff that I’ve seen in Union.
Pippinu said | November 8th 2009 @ 10:21pm | Report comment
People are struggling to keep up with the times – League has changed a lot the last 15 years – you used to hear these sorts of comparisons between League and Union 15 years ago (with League coming worse off) – but such conclusions are no longer valid (and even back then, it was probably marginal anyway).
Parisien said | November 9th 2009 @ 12:02am | Report comment
I think the Wallabies will find Ireland and Wales a lot tougher than England and will have to play better still and convert all/any of the try opportunities they create.
Last night they bombed several potential trys even if they played quite well. Hopefully they will have gained lots of confidence from the win last night and this will improve their play and skills further. Cooper has to stay at 10 or 12, he brought some unpredictability, better kicking than Giteau, and some fancy passing and footwork that had the defence guessing. I agree with an earlier poster that Ioane might be better at wing than 13, but if AAC comes back to 13, there is no-one else for fullback. Ioane certainly belongs in the backline. I hope AAC’s kick chases can improve with practice! Mitchell still has to learn to defend better but I like him in attack.
Overall, I hope Robbie picks the same team, with just maybe a possible rotation of Pocock on for Smith, and TPN for Moore.
Can’t wait for another great weekend of rugby.
Knives Out said | November 9th 2009 @ 12:46am | Report comment
Well, congratulations to Australia. I saw both test matches through a horrific alcoholic haze and so recall little (Is it just me or was some of the kicking and passing really bad?). From what I did see I’m not that disappointed. England looked like what they were – a callow, inexperienced outfit with players out of position. Johnson picked a team to go wide but with such an un-dynamic, stodgy front five that was always going to be wishful thinking. Hopefully Johnson will pick a full back next week and drop some of the lumberers: L. Deacon, Crane and Banahan. Lawes and Geraghty looked off the pace and confused, but at least the injury situation should remove any temptation to drop either player. Best case scenario is that some of the younger players get to play 3 games against higher ranked opposition. A good win against Argentina and a narrow loss to NZ will do me. Good luck with the GS.
Colin N said | November 9th 2009 @ 1:30am | Report comment
“Lawes and Geraghty looked off the pace and confused”
Really? I thought Lawes was impressive when he came on. He made a couple of good carries and nicked the ball from an Australian maul.
Wilkinson and Paul Hodgson (when he came on) the exception, the England backs were poor, but it’s hard when the forwards don’t give them quick ball.
Knives Out said | November 9th 2009 @ 4:39am | Report comment
I was all over the place, Colin. I thought I saw Lawes get slam dunked a couple of times.
I’d play Haskell ahead of Crane at 8, Hodgson at 9, Geraghty at 12 (there are no other options), and drop Banahan for Foden. I’m not a huge fan of Hipkiss at test level, but there aren’t really any other options given that Tait has had a mediocre season:
1. Payne, 2. Thompson, 3. Wilson, 4. Lawes, 5. Borthwick, 6. Croft, 7. Moody, 8. Haskell,
9. Hodgson, 10. Wilkinson, 11. Monye, 12. Geraghty, 13. Hipkiss, 14. Cueto, 15. Foden.
stillmissit said | November 9th 2009 @ 7:18am | Report comment
Colin n and KO – I thought you have something to build on with that team and contrary to your thoughts KO I thought Geraghty stepped well and showed some promise as a 5/8 rather than a I/C. Cant remember the name of the big No8/breakaway? who came on but he looked like he can play. I also thought the 35 year old debutant prop who dropped like a sack of potatoes in his first scrum, picked up after that and solidified your scrum and did some good work around the field.
Wilkinson and Moody were excellent but I wonder if they will be there in the RWC. All in all I have watched worse England teams than that one run around particularly in Australia.
Thank Christ that one is behind us!
Colin N said | November 9th 2009 @ 7:40am | Report comment
Geraghty did ok, but I think KO’s right, he did look a bit confused out there and he didn’t seem to know what specific role he has atm. It was similar to Flutey last Autumn, so hopefully with a bit of time in a stable backline, it will eventually work out for him and England, because he obviously is very talented.
Haskell was the big number 8 who came on and he did very well. I understood the reason for not starting with him though, as he’s played most of his rugby at 6 and Crane knows (or at least should do) Croft and Moodys’ games very well.
Onto Bell, and I think he did what was expected of him. However, I don’t believe that penalty against him should have been given, as opposing Loose head wasn’t binding properly, so I don’t think that was entirely his fault. Lawes also helped the scrum out I believe, with his bulk.
Knives Out said | November 9th 2009 @ 7:41am | Report comment
James Haskell is the backrower, stillmissit.
It’s hard to measure what will come out of this period until we play NZ. My hope is that the main injured core will be improved with some of the current players who are being given an opportunity. It’s a negative that some players have looked out of place, but also a positive as now the management will have a better idea of the bigger picture. I wonder whether Johnson will give the same players another opportunity or make a few changes this Tuesday?
hayden said | November 9th 2009 @ 1:38am | Report comment
I’d look to start Haskell, Moody played a blinder. Who’d you put in to round out the loosed forwards. I’ve only really seen Banahan on a few highlight reels – is he really that bad? It seems like he could / should be devastating with someone more inventive inside him. If Johnson is going to pick Monye, it needs to be on the wing.
Your alcoholic haze was right – some of the kicking, particularly by Giteau and Cooper in the first half, was abysmal.
Colin N said | November 9th 2009 @ 2:07am | Report comment
I personally like Banahan and he’s played well for Bath this season and did well against Argentina in the summer, so he deserves his chance. But I would rather have Monye and Cueto on the wing, with Foden at full-back.
“some of the kicking, particularly by Giteau and Cooper in the first half, was abysmal.”
That’s why I would have loved to have seen Foden yesterday. With the poor kicking, Foden could have been devastating.
Even so, England’s kicking out of hand was equally average.
Matt0931 said | November 9th 2009 @ 1:50am | Report comment
I told you we would see!
Parisien said | November 9th 2009 @ 3:23am | Report comment
You were right – no surprises there.
Parisien said | November 9th 2009 @ 3:22am | Report comment
Its still premature to talk about a grand slam for the Wallabies. Ireland will be very tough at Croke Park, Scotland have a very good pack, and Wales are a very good team all round. The best thing about the Wallabies win is the confirmation of Genia, and the promise of Cooper and Ioane. The confidence from a win and a couple of trys will do wonders for them all.
PS: the match statistics offer interesting reading on offloads, line breaks, kicks, runs, metres gained etc… I thought England (especially JW) kicked better than the Wallabies. perhaps this explains why they kicked more often.
Matt0931 said | November 9th 2009 @ 4:40am | Report comment
Parisien – I’ve been looking for somewhere I can read the match statistics.
Do you know of any decent websites?
Parisien said | November 9th 2009 @ 5:07am | Report comment
Matt
just click on the match scorecard at rugbyheaven.com.au.
I paste some here below but I see the format got stuffed up! sorry.
GAME STATS
England V Australia
0
TRIES
2
Will Genia 21m
Adam Ashley-Cooper 72m
0
CONVERSIONS
1
Matt Giteau 73m
2/3
Jonny Wilkinson 10m
Jonny Wilkinson 27m PENALTY GOALS
Scorers 2/2
Matt Giteau 46m
Matt Giteau 60m
1/2
Jonny Wilkinson 3m DROP GOALS
0/0
SIN BINS
89 RUCKS/MAULS 81
1 LINE BREAKS 4
3 OFFLOADS 14
2
2
0 SCRUM WINS
With Feed
Against Feed 6
6
0
16
13
3 LINE OUTS WON
On Throw
Against Throw 15
12
3
92
447m RUNS
Metres Gained 84
409m
36
930m KICKS
Kick Metres 29
942m
89
110
0
30 TACKLES MADE
Attempted
Ineffective
Missed 80
97
0
9
15 TURNOVERS 16
6 PENALTIES CONCEDED 11
49% POSSESSION 51%
Knives Out said | November 9th 2009 @ 5:10am | Report comment
36 kicks to 29 and 92 runs to 89. What does that illustrate?
Parisien said | November 9th 2009 @ 7:36am | Report comment
not a lot! just interesting reading. linebreaks and offloads perhaps reveal more. I’m no expert on statistics though, and I know they can be interpreted in many different ways as well.
Matt0931 said | November 9th 2009 @ 8:37am | Report comment
That they tried to run it (to some effect) but also that they kicked away too much posession.
The bit about kicking is Martin Johnsons words, not mine
They might also have more kicks with less distance because whilst Australia were generally kicking deep and/or for corners the English team were putting up quite a few high, short distance kicks (kick and chase).
NickSA said | November 9th 2009 @ 4:02am | Report comment
Wales were totally outclassed by the all blacks, they were lucky to lose by such a small margin!!! SH to clean sweep NH!!
pothale said | November 9th 2009 @ 4:28am | Report comment
Eh the Tigers already beat the Springboks – no clean sweep for SA.
NickSA said | November 9th 2009 @ 6:17am | Report comment
Pothale
Come now we all know that wasnt the proper SA team, the players dont get capped for that game… To be honest though that was very worrying watching how dismall the future boks played against a second string tigers side!!
NickSA said | November 9th 2009 @ 6:28am | Report comment
The 9 new caps wont even recieve springbok blazers for playing against the club teams.
pothale said | November 9th 2009 @ 6:46am | Report comment
Caps or not, Nick, as you readily admit, the performance by the Tigers was admirable as much as the back-up Boks were poor. Some of the players had test time though, so it wasn’t completely inexperienced. Chilliboy and Piennar were less than stellar to put it kindly.
I wasn’t saying it was the ‘proper’ SA team – I realise that. But I think test teams should stil be aiming to win all their matches on tour, including against club sides who have been similarly denuded of their best frontline players. So in my book, that’s a tick in the L box for SA.
Anyway, let’s see how next week goes. Going by your prediction, the Tigers may be the only victory for the NH teams this November.
Oh boy – wait’ll Spiro cuts loose on that one. He’ll have a field day.
pothale said | November 9th 2009 @ 8:54am | Report comment
On a side note, Nick, I see that the entire front row from the other night has had to head back to South Africa after being Castroed by the Tigers.
And PdV is going to have to follow the NZ selectors and bring a foreign-based player into the squad. CJ van der Linde currently with Leinster has been called up.
Now that would be ironic if he turned up on the pitch at Croke Park, against some of his current team-mates. Cyncis might say they might get a chance to see him actually play, since he’s managed to play about 2.56 matches since he joined the Lions 18 months ago. He stubbed his toe three weeks after he started at the club and has been a continual sicknote ever since.
If Rocky Elsom gets a roar of approval from the Croke Park crowd next Saturday for one of their favourite foreign sons, something tells me that CJ won’t be getting any bouquets thrown his way if he togs out in a Bok shirt the following week.
katzilla said | November 9th 2009 @ 5:29pm | Report comment
Who have NZ bought in from foreign lands Pot? Did someone get injured?
mcxd said | November 9th 2009 @ 5:47am | Report comment
Ayoola Erinle looks absolutely hugh !! How big is he ? I thought he could have started instead of Banahan. Banahan looked a bit lost out there, not at international level (at least yet)
Colin N said | November 9th 2009 @ 5:51am | Report comment
Erinle was poor and is one dimensional. His selection was bizarre, and he was basically a like-for-like replacement for Hipkiss, who is a much better player. An off form Tait, or even hamstrung Tindall would have been better than Erinle.
mcxd said | November 9th 2009 @ 6:49am | Report comment
yes sorry Colin on further consideration, Erinle did come on towards the end of the while Banahan had to weather most of the game. If Erinle was on earlier maybe he would have been exposed.
NickSA said | November 9th 2009 @ 5:38pm | Report comment
Pothale
I like PDV i think he is a very good coach but one of his weaknesses is that he shows alot of favouritism to certain players!!
In the currie cup the best front row was that of the cheetahs!! Adriaan strauss, wp nel and wian du preez dominated most of the scrums!! Instead PDV did not select one of these players to be in the sqaud and went with Heinke van der Merwe because PDV had coached him before and believed he had talent. Heinke van der Merwe last played rugby on the 18th of april due to injury!! It is absurd that he was selected. Other selections like chilliboy,maku, earl rose ( who played well but there are better players than him), Alistair Hargreaves, Odwa Ndungane, Heini Adams, Davon Raubenheimer all are players who should not be in this team as there are better players than them who have not been selected!! The one strenght PDV has as a coach is that he learns quickly from his mistakes, jake white was very stubborn!! PDV has called strauss and wian du preez to join the sqaud aswell. Look the main aim of the club side games was to develope the future boks, it was just very shocking to see how they got manhandled by a second string tigers!! To be honest i think the saracens game is going to be very tough and it could go either way. i think boks will have a tough game against france, cream italy and outclass ireland!!