By Luke Phillips
November 8th 2009 @ 3:21am
Related coverage
Wales left fuming with Carter after All Blacks loss
Wales were left fuming with a head-high tackle by Dan Carter that went unpunished in their 19-12 loss to New Zealand.
The All Blacks playmaker tracked back magnificently after Shane Williams had stepped his markers to produce a crunching, try-saving tackle on Martin Roberts, who had the line at his mercy in the 71st minute with the score at 19-9.
Luckily for Carter, neither South African referee Craig Joubert nor his assistants noticed the outside-half’s swinging arm which seemed to make full contact with Roberts’ head and shoulders, an act that would normally see a player penalised at best, sin-binned at worse.
Asked whether Carter, who was booed by the crowd whenever he touched the ball after the incident, should have been yellow carded, Wales coach Warren Gatland was adamant: “Yes, I do.
“It’s a break in the opposition 22, someone’s there, if it’s a legitimate tackle it’s hopefully quick ball but it’s a head-high tackle with a swinging arm and it should have been three points and a yellow card.
“It was a pretty high tackle. A guy makes the break in the 22 and you feel that if that’s the other end it’s three points and a yellow card and all the officials missed it so we’re pretty disappointed.”
Defence coach Shaun Edwards added: “We should have played against 14 men for the last 10 minutes.
“It was clear for all to see. I’ve seen players sin binned or even sent off for that.”
But New Zealand coach Graham Henry was quick to downplay Carter’s tackle, saying it was a “bit of a stretch” to consider carding him for it.
“I saw it at the moment, I didn’t look at the replay at all, but it seemed to me that he hit him around the chest and stood up and the other guy slid under,” Henry said.
Carter kicked four penalties and converted Andew Hore’s sole try of the game, and was crucial in marshalling both the visiting side’s defence and attack in a hard-fought game that was tied 6-6 at halftime.
“Carter has a superb kicking game,” acknowledged Gatland. “He’s a world class player who doesn’t make too many mistakes.
“It’s pleasing to play against him. We’ve got the All Blacks three times in the next 12 months.
“We’ve got a really good build-up over the next two years going to the World Cup and we’re playing the best countries and regularly.
“We think we’re closing the gap. We have to make sure we keep improving. We’ve got Samoa on Friday, then Argentina and Australia. It’s important over the four-game series that we can’t just have a good performance this evening but keep improving with each game.”
Gatland, who played 17 times for the All Blacks without making a Test appearance, admitted that New Zealand’s purple patch at the start of the second-half had secured victory and deprived Wales of a first victory over their rivals since 1953.
“The All Blacks dominated the game in that third quarter. They came out after half-time,” he said.
“The pleasing thing is that we finished strongly and then put them under some pressure.”
Henry, whose side also play Italy, England and France, also had a bone to pick with the match officials, saying he though the television match official who disallowed three All Black tries had made a mistake on at least one.
“It was a highly competitive Test match,” the former Wales coach said. “I thought we could have won by more, to be honest.
“I thought Conrad Smith scored and that would have given us a bit of a gap.
“We had three tries looked at by the TMO, I think one was pretty obvious and that would have made a difference.”
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Dean Pantio said | November 8th 2009 @ 8:02am | Report comment
What a surprise – the whining has started. No one thought it was a bad tackle until it was replayed from a different angle, over and over again.
johnno42 said | November 8th 2009 @ 8:13am | Report comment
thats right dean… no mention of all the disallowed trys.
Lee said | November 8th 2009 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
They aren’t “disallowed tries” when there is no evidence that the ball is grounded(players reaction doesn’t count). Only disallowed if teh player puts the ball down and the ref calles it back for something else.
Darwin hammer said | November 8th 2009 @ 8:25am | Report comment
No surprise there’s no comment on Leonard being kicked in the face – or the welsh hands that caused Leonard to knock on when went over – card ? Penalty try ? – but not the AB way to complain they leave that to the opposition
CraigB said | November 8th 2009 @ 9:07am | Report comment
yes best to leave it to the opposition AND the AB fans…
Justin said | November 8th 2009 @ 1:24pm | Report comment
They did get a penalty for the KO…
Grandpabhaile said | November 8th 2009 @ 8:29am | Report comment
Eh? It was a bad tackle. You could see that instantly on screen and confirmed on replays. However, game’s over and time to move on.
Henry is catching the Arsenal manager disease – “I didn’t see it really, started on his chest and slid up”. But I saw all three disallowed tries better than the TMO and one of them should have been a try.
Maybe he should get Arsene’s number….
MyGeneration said | November 8th 2009 @ 8:35am | Report comment
Well, this article told me bugger all about how the game was played. Where was the game won and lost? Were the All Blacks as in command as Henry implies?
Mr Denmore said | November 8th 2009 @ 11:41am | Report comment
Game won at the breakdown. Wales didn’t commit many numbers and turned over a lot of pill. Both the All Black and Welsh defences were superb. The ABs created more out of their opportunities and had three tries disallowed. You had a sense in the third quarter when they were 10 up and camped on the Welsh tryline that the floodgates were about to open. If Conrad Smith’s try had been allowed, it would have been all over. But that they only came away with three points from that period kept Wales in it and hearts were set abeating in the five minutes when they nearly scored from an intercept picked off a dumb Jimmy Cowan pass in heavy traffic.
The ABs definitely deserved the win. They controlled the game better. Lineouts were even – a slight advantage to the ABs. Scrums were a bit of a mess with the surface being chopped up and Crockett penalised three times for putting his hand on the ground during engagement. Breakdown ABs definitely superior and all class under the high ball – especially new boy Guildford and the classy Corey Jane.
The nonsense about the Carter tackle is typical Welsh whinging. Those guys always have to whinge about something. Carter is not the sort of player who makes deliberate high shots. Henry is right. He went around the chest and shoulders and the Welsh scrumhalf dropped his head. These things always look worse on repeated replays. And the whingeing local broadcasters milked it. Far worse was the Welsh player who kicked Leonard in the head while he was on the ground. Not even a penalty for that one.
Colin N said | November 8th 2009 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
“Far worse was the Welsh player who kicked Leonard in the head while he was on the ground”
Well the ball was loose and there to be kicked, it was an unfortunate incident.
The Carter one should have been a penalty and a possible yellow card, but I don’t believe it would have impacted on the overall result.
The TMO got all the decisions right, and overall the All Blacks deserved to win.
Jerry said | November 8th 2009 @ 3:31pm | Report comment
It was loose but Leonard was diving on it before Jones kicked at it. It was pretty reckless.
I don’t normally agree with Tony Johnson as he’s far too biased and shrill for my liking, but he was right to point out that Colin Meads got sent off for pretty much the same offence.
Carter’s tackle should have been a penalty yes, but I reckon a yellow would be an over-reaction (I also think it would have been a bit much to card Jones, but that should have been a penalty also).
pothale said | November 8th 2009 @ 11:54am | Report comment
I don’t think the lineouts were even, I thought the Welsh did better on their own throw and disrupted a few AB ones as well.
Mr Denmore said | November 8th 2009 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
Which ones? Probably the most important lineout of the game – the one in the final minute when the Welsh got the penalty 5 metres out, they fluffed. The ABs stole another Welsh lineout earlier. The Welsh disrupted one AB lineout, but then knocked on. Sounds pretty even to me and a massive step up for the ABs since the Tri-Nations. Donnelly clearly superior to Eaton.
Dingbat said | November 8th 2009 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
The inevitable SH whitewash of the NH has begun. Eeven although the NH teams really can’t be bothered to play these games.
pothale said | November 9th 2009 @ 3:46am | Report comment
Ouch! Whatever about it seeming inevitable, I haven’t heard many people make that assertion up to now.
Still, it’s 4-1 on games so far so not looking good for the NH.
However, Dingbat, “the NH can’t be bothered to play these games” is absolute nonsense and disrespectful. Some of the summer tours may have been short-changed by France and England, but the November Internationals are always contested with best squads available – by the NH teams anyway.
Jerry said | November 8th 2009 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
No mention from the Welsh that 3 of their first 5 penalties (including 2 shots at goal, 1 successful) were wrong calls from Joubert.
Read was penalised for diving over the top when he was actually driven off his feet by the Welsh fullback coming in from the side – Stephen Jones missed a shot at goal.
McCaw was penalised for playing the ball on the deck when he was actually tackled early trying to dive on the loose ball. Jones kicked a goal from this.
Eaton was penalised for coming into a ‘maul’ offside, but no All Blacks were ever bound meaning it was never a maul at all. Should have been a kickable penalty to the AB’s for obstruction.
And as has been pointed out, Stephen Jones got away with a reckless hack that could have injured Leonard. Or indeed that they got away with a fair few infringements in that 5 minute spell with the AB’s camped on their line. Many refs would have pinged them off the park and issued a card in that phase.
But no, it’s only the calls that went against them that are relevant.
I do like Edwards tacit admission that his team can’t win playing 15 on 15. I wonder how his players feel about that?
mick h said | November 8th 2009 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
Yeah it’s always someone elses fault when the All Blacks get penalised at the ruck. I do forget that they are Gods and can do no wrong. Are you saying with the Eaton penalty not one All Black was bound? Not one!
McCaw playing the ball on the ground? Impossible!!!!!!
All in all it was a good tough game and the better side won.
Jerry said | November 8th 2009 @ 3:49pm | Report comment
Well, if you notice I said “3 out of the first 5 penalties”. The other two (for Neemia Tialata advancing offside from a kick and Conrad Smith not rolling away) I had no problem with. And, in the interests of impartiality, the first All Black penalty kick came a couple of phases after they got away with a chaser (I think it was Cory Jane) being a half step in front of Carter from a bomb.
But yeah – McCaw played the ball on the ground, but he was actually entitle to do so. It wasn’t a tackle situation, he was diving on a loose ball. In that situation, you’re entitled to place the ball after you dive on it. And this was after he’d been early tackled. It wouldn’t have been a penalty to the AB’s, however, cause I think Joubert was playing advantage from a Carter knock on.
As for the Eaton decision – you read it right, no All Blacks were bound. It’s not exactly unheard of the attacking team to get their timing wrong when trying to set up a driving maul. In this case they did, but got away with it. Eaton was the first All Black to engage the ‘maul’ unless you count the lineout jumper (I think it was Read) who came into contact with the Welsh jumper.
mick h said | November 8th 2009 @ 3:59pm | Report comment
Fair enough. It’s a bit easier being able to watch the replays over and over. The ref has to make the call in a split second.
As an aside, it would be interesting if you could anonimously interview a ref and ask him if the’ve ever blown a penalty and immediately realised they were wrong but had to go along with it to save face. I reckon it happens more times than we care to think about.
Jerry said | November 8th 2009 @ 4:19pm | Report comment
Yeah, my point wasn’t to try and say that the AB’s were hard done by, it was that when coaches, players and supporters complain about the ref in about 99% of cases they’re simply ignoring the fact that mistakes are invariably made both ways. If Gatland is gonna complain that one bad call ruined their chances, he should look at all the breaks they got as well.
And yeah, I’m sure refs often realise a call is wrong a split second after they make it but don’t want to back down.
OldManEmu said | November 8th 2009 @ 9:10pm | Report comment
I am not sure you ae right there on the laws Jerry although I accept it is not free from doubt, and of course pretty technical.
I think in black and white any player that dives on the loose ball can do no more because it is illegal to play the ball on the ground.But of course if a player does dive on the loose ball, what then? Law 14 is pretty unclear.
Jerry said | November 9th 2009 @ 3:40am | Report comment
If you dive on a loose ball, the same rules apply as if you’ve been brought to ground. If you’re not held you can get up and do what you want. If you are held, you’re allowed to place the ball (in the absence of any players on their feet trying to play the ball) which is what McCaw was doing. What the ref thought happened was that McCaw was already on the deck when he grabbed the loose ball – it was a split second thing, but it looked to me like he got the ball as he was going to ground.
Regardless, the early tackle happened before he grabbed the ball, so that was the earlier offence (at which stage the ref should have called advantage over and awarded Wales a scrum).
ohtani's jacket said | November 8th 2009 @ 8:40pm | Report comment
I came home drunk and slept through my alarm despite the wife trying to wake me up. Can anybody tell me how Kaino went? Was there much difference between Kaino at 6 compared to Thomson?
Jerry said | November 8th 2009 @ 8:44pm | Report comment
Kaino wasn’t as visible as Thompson, but probably the key difference between the two teams was NZ’s performance at the breakdown and Kaino was a big part of that.
Parisien said | November 9th 2009 @ 12:20am | Report comment
I thought Carter’s hit looked ok in real time, but it did look worse in all the replays. 50/50 call. Not such a big deal. However, I feel Wales were a little hard done by in the refereeing at the breakdown. I thought it was a really close game and at one point could have turned Wales way. One incident sticks in my memory: Welsh guy tackled, lays the ball back, ABs drive over, get counter driven back and the ref blows against the Welsh for holding on to the ball, but replays clearly showed he wasn’t. I know this has been commented on before, and there is too much room for interpretation at the breakdown. I conclude that the ref has to make a decision on based on perception in the moment, and the ABs are very good at creating an aura and sense of perception about how they play. Its always easier to judge with replays. Anyway, well done ABs, they extend their winning streak against Wales to 56 years! Hard luck Wales, you played well.
Dingbat said | November 9th 2009 @ 3:29am | Report comment
Just saw the Carter tackle. He should definitely have been given a yellow.
mcxd said | November 9th 2009 @ 4:06am | Report comment
As a neutral, i think this is being totally overhyped. The guy he tackled isnt that tall and he was falling. Ive seen alot worse not mentioned at all. No intention and definetly no yellow card. If ref did pick it up the worse it should have got was a penalty. End of story.
Dingbat said | November 9th 2009 @ 10:59am | Report comment
wrong
Kevin,Meath said | November 9th 2009 @ 8:07am | Report comment
As a Welshman i thought the AB’s deserved to win fair and square. Yes some calls didn’t go our way always will — swings and roundabouts etc. Wales needed a bit of luck and it didn’t fall our way. Carter should been given a penalty but a yellow would have been harsh ,although I’ve seen them given especially against away players so was that good by the ref that he wasn’t a homer or bad because he missed it? I suspect if it had not been Carter who has a good reputation the ref may have reacted differently. If Wales want to beat the ABs they need a slice of luck (10 years ago they’d have needed the whole feking cake) and it didn’t fall our way. They also need not to muck a lineout 5m from the line, they need a 2nd row to look for support earlier rather than try to go the length and the support needs to get closer rather than expect the poor bar steward to run 60m out pacing chasing AB’s after 70+mins of test rugby.
Thought Jones was entitled to take a kick at a loose ball and Leonard show guts in putting his body on the line to stop it.
AndyS said | November 9th 2009 @ 4:19pm | Report comment
Carter’s high tackle…penalty – definitely, yellow – maybe, but probably a bit harsh, citing – you have got to be kidding!
The kick on Leonard is a tougher one. Personal opinion is that it would be one of those things, but I also acknowledge the point of view put to me today that “It is no different from a player jumping to catch the ball. If he jumps and is tackled, it is called dangerous and a penalty even if the tackler was committed. So same thing – a kick in the head is just as dangerous, more so than many of the air tackles, and the intent of the kicker shouldn’t matter.”